Retail Media's Future with Anne Harrell of Pacvue in Cannes

Summary

Next in Media: Retail Media's Future with Anne Harrell of Pacvue in Cannes

Release Date: June 30, 2025

In this insightful episode of Next in Media, host Mike Shields engages in a deep conversation with Anne Harrell, Group Product Manager at Pacvue, focusing on the evolving landscape of retail media. Recorded live in Cannes as part of a special series with Walmart Connect, the discussion delves into the intricacies of retail media attribution, data fragmentation, and the future trajectory of the industry.

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1. The Current Landscape of Retail Media

Mike Shields opens the discussion by highlighting the booming nature of retail media companies and the complexities associated with closed-loop attribution across various retailer platforms.

Mike Shields [00:51]: "We talked to Ann Harrell, group product manager at Packvue. Anne and I talked about how the big retailers are really trying to level up and grab bigger budgets beyond just retail media spending..."

Anne Harrell acknowledges the challenges posed by data availability in measuring the effectiveness of retail media across diverse retailer platforms.

Anne Harrell [01:16]: "I think the biggest challenge is data availability. You know most people are advertising on these swell departments and so within the vault gardens it's very easy to do clothes loompediment to see what's working and what's not."

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2. Navigating Data Fragmentation with Pacvue

Anne Harrell elaborates on Pacvue's extensive connectivity, integrating with over 90 retailer platforms either directly or through aggregators like Brittany Sadhu and Santos Carr.

Anne Harrell [01:30]: "So PACU has over 90 different retailer platforms that we're connected to either for the retailer relationship directly or through aggregators like Brittany Sadhu, Santos Car and I join us. There's a lot."

She emphasizes the complexity of measuring performance across these platforms and introduces data clean rooms as a pivotal solution for enhancing data flexibility and enabling advanced attribution models.

Anne Harrell [01:40]: "The one way that we found that really does allow for more data flexibility is the use of data clean rooms because you can share more granular data sets in a privacy safe way..."

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3. The Importance of Data Clean Rooms in Attribution

Anne Harrell discusses how data clean rooms facilitate multi-touch attribution and incrementality models, essential for accurate performance measurement.

Anne Harrell [02:25]: "We believe that the expansion of data clean rooms and the ability to do kind of advanced modeling and custom modeling within them is the answer to incrementality."

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4. Challenges of Cross-Channel and Cross-Platform Attribution

The conversation shifts to the difficulties of attributing performance across a retailer’s entire portfolio, especially when retailers are hesitant to share cross-channel data.

Anne Harrell [02:37]: "Most of the retailers are incentivized to allow you to see the different channels within their networks. They are very much the opposite of incentivized to share that data across."

She highlights the necessity of compelling brand storytelling to secure data sharing permissions from retailers, which in turn can lead to larger budgets and more integrated measurement approaches.

Anne Harrell [03:10]: "telling the brand story. And what's most important to note for retailers, brands alike, when you have this type of cross channel measurement, it typically leads to higher budgets long term because when you're able to measure something in."

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5. The Evolution of Retail Media into a Unified Commerce Strategy

Mike Shields raises the point about major players like Amazon, Walmart, and Instacart expanding their roles across the customer journey, potentially blurring the lines of traditional retail media.

Mike Shields [04:06]: "They want to be part of all budgets and all parts of the customer journey. That seems like a good thing. But I wonder if, if it's harder to fit that into the retail media box."

Anne Harrell responds by illustrating how retail media is transforming into a comprehensive commerce strategy, integrating various channels like social platforms to create a seamless funnel.

Anne Harrell [04:47]: "We see very much so that the lines between retail, social, traditional search, upper funnel, lower funnel, they're all kind of blurring. Right. It's all becoming a channel for commerce."

She cites the launch of Pacvue’s TikTok connection as an example of how social platforms can be harmoniously integrated into retail media strategies.

Anne Harrell [05:34]: "We are seeing that all become one long commerce strategy. And when you think about it, it always has been right. It's just us now removing the barriers between these different segments so that they can act towards one goal as opposed to having different goals, different teams."

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6. Optimizing Social Shopping Strategies

The discussion delves into the strategic nuances of social shopping, contrasting it with more predictable platforms like the Walmart app.

Mike Shields [05:51]: "You can't. Brands can't predict or engineer social shopping as well as they, they can target somebody who's shopping on a Walmart app."

Anne Harrell explains the evolving landscape, where social platforms offer opportunities for more controlled and trackable advertising campaigns, enhancing optimization and measurement.

Anne Harrell [06:39]: "So it's created by a creator or by your brand team. It actually ties back to a product and you control things like the audience, the bids... you can track it back to Amazon, Walmart target and see the impact. So once you are able to track and refine, I would say that it's, it's definitely something you can optimize."

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7. Building Ecosystems for Comprehensive Optimization

Mike Shields brings up Walmart’s strategic moves into television advertising with Vizio, questioning whether other retailers might follow suit.

Mike Shields [06:39]: "What are you seeing from that relationship. Can they contend in that same kind of space and might we see other retailers kind of pushing that direction?"

Anne Harrell praises Walmart’s approach to building a comprehensive ecosystem that supports the entire conversion funnel, from streaming and CTV to on-site display and search.

Anne Harrell [07:01]: "They're building an ecosystem and I think that's the right clay in this, this modern world that we're all living in for, for retail, media and commerce in general."

She underscores the benefits of such ecosystems, particularly in enabling closed-loop measurement, which simplifies performance tracking and optimization within a unified platform.

Anne Harrell [08:03]: "The closed loop measurement is easier when it's all within one retailer platform."

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8. The Future of Retail Media Partnerships

Concluding the episode, Mike Shields poses a forward-looking question about the scalability of ecosystems across Pacvue’s 90+ partners.

Mike Shields [08:13]: "Do they have to join forces or is there some kind of limited play there? We'll see what happens."

Anne Harrell remains optimistic, suggesting that the timing and collaborative efforts via aggregators signal a promising future for building robust retail media ecosystems.

Anne Harrell [08:30]: "Even if you're a small player, I don't think all hope is lost."

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Conclusion

This episode of Next in Media provides a comprehensive exploration of the challenges and innovations shaping the future of retail media. Anne Harrell offers valuable insights into the importance of data integration, the shift towards unified commerce strategies, and the pivotal role of ecosystems in optimizing the customer journey. For industry professionals and enthusiasts alike, the discussion underscores the necessity of adaptability and strategic collaboration in navigating the ever-evolving media landscape.

Transcript

[Mike Shields]

This episode is brought to you by Walmart Connect. Win carts and minds with Walmart Connect. In fact, I shot this episode of Next to Media Live in Cannes with my friends at walmart Connect. We talked to Ann Harrell, group product manager at Packvue. Anne and I talked about how the big retailers are really trying to level up and grab bigger budgets beyond just retail media spending, how things are going in terms of fragmentation and measurement and whether we're about to see a real roll up in this space. So let's get started.

[Anne Harrell]

Foreign.

[Mike Shields]

I'm Mike Shields. Welcome to Next in Media. We're here live in Cannes. This is part of my special series with Walmart Connect. I'm here with Anne Harrell. She is the head of product enablement at PactHView. Anne, thanks for being here.

[Anne Harrell]

Thanks for having me.

[Mike Shields]

So let's dive right into the weeds right away here. Tons of retail media companies here. It's a huge booming category. The thing you hear about among a lot of things is closed loop attribution. When you get started is amazing. But then you're trying to figure out how to apply that awesome retail media attribution to broader channels to like this site by site silo basis. What is the, what's the challenge there for you? How do you figure out incrementality?

[Anne Harrell]

I think the biggest challenge is data availability. You know most people are advertising on these swell departments and so within the vault gardens it's very easy to do clothes loompediment to see what's working and what's not.

[Mike Shields]

You mentioned how many are you plugged into these days?

[Anne Harrell]

So PACU has over 90 different retailer platforms that we're connected to either for the retailer relationship directly or through aggregators like Brittany Sadhu, Santos Car and I join us. There's a lot.

[Mike Shields]

Yeah, that's a lot to make sense of.

[Anne Harrell]

Yes, a lot to make sense of. A lot to measure and so it can be quite difficult to do. So the one way that we found that really does allow for more data flexibility is the use of data clean rooms because you can share more granular data sets in a privacy safe way which will allow you to look at your data differently, to pivot to use things like multi touch attribution which can be the basis for incrementality models. So that's definitely a tool in advertisers arsenal and we have data clean room activations within PacView that allow you to do that. There's still some limitations in terms of data sharing across retailer platforms that have to be considered. But all in. We believe that the expansion of data clean rooms and the ability to do kind of advanced modeling and custom modeling within them is the answer to incrementality.

[Mike Shields]

Okay, so probably a hard question, but what is, what is more challenging is it is attribution across a retailer's whole portfolio, is that expand or is it harder to see everybody across all these different players?

[Anne Harrell]

I think the biggest challenge is cross channel, cross platform. Most of the retailers are incentivized to allow you to see the different channels within their networks. They are very much the opposite of incentivized to share that data across. And so getting that unlock from retailers really requires telling the brand story. And what's most important to note for retailers, brands alike, when you have this type of cross channel measurement, it typically leads to higher budgets long term because when you're able to measure something in.

[Mike Shields]

It for them to push for that.

[Anne Harrell]

Yeah. So telling that story, getting the correct approval, that's the most difficult part. But intra platform it's actually quite easy to do things like incrementality modeling which we've done for retailers in pacview. We have Amazon, we have Target where we basically create custom models with the data that is available so that you're not trying to have a one size fits all incrementality methodology that's not going to apply to every retailer because of the differences in things like data and attribution.

[Mike Shields]

Now what about a lot of the bigger players, particularly Amazon, Walmart, maybe Instacart, throw them in there, they're talking about this, they're talking a lot more about full funnel and trying to, they want to be part of all budgets and all parts of the customer journey. That seems like a good thing. But I wonder if, if it's harder to fit that into the retail media box. We've, we've kind of set up what kind of challenges come there and is that, is that something that you're seeing a lot of traction?

[Anne Harrell]

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question because I think at PACU and the industry at large, the idea of retail media is changing. We see very much so that the lines between retail, social, traditional search, upper funnel, lower funnel, they're all kind of blurring. Right. It's all becoming a channel for commerce. And so while we do see retailers want to play in the upper funnel or in the non endemic game, we think that's actually quite possible. For instance, we just launched our TikTok connection. We would say TikTok is a friendly to all retailers because it's discovery, commerce and what happens after a product is discovered? It's purchased either on TikTok or on another channel.

[Mike Shields]

You don't view social shopping as like a totally different animal like that. Retail media plays one here and that's like a social influencer budget. That's not how you're looking at it.

[Anne Harrell]

At least not anymore. I feel like it originally started that way. And you'll still see teams structured that way. Right. Where you have your social strategy and you have your traditional search strategy and then you have your retail media strategy. But more and more, as more platforms arise, as the need to solve for fragmentation exists and as a consolidated strategy becomes more important, we're seeing that all become one long commerce strategy. And when you think about it, it always has been right. It's just us now removing the barriers between these different segments so that they can act towards one goal as opposed to having different goals, different teams. But in reality you're all trying to increase the sales of that brand.

[Mike Shields]

I guess I tend to think of. And maybe I'm wrong, but you can't. Brands can't predict or engineer social shopping as well as they, they can target somebody who's shopping on a Walmart app. And it's pretty straightforward. You're finding there's a little bit more consistency or you could be more strategic in TikTok and other places.

[Anne Harrell]

So it's hard to engineer social strategy organically. There's ways to do it. It's. It takes a specific touch. But you'll see that a lot of platforms, TikTok's a great example or introducing kind of an in between strategy. Like shop ads is what we support, which you use the creative that you would use in an organic situation. So it's created by a creator or by your brand team. It actually ties back to a product and you control things like the audience, the bids, various bid modifications that you can add in to make sure you're fine tuning who you're reaching and reaching them at the right moment. And then you can also apply certain tracking to these types of campaigns so that you can track it back to Amazon, Walmart target and see the impact. So once you are able to track and refine, I would say that it's, it's definitely something you can optimize.

[Mike Shields]

Okay. Lastly, obviously Amazon is the giant this category and they, and they, their advantage is that they can touch customers in so many different places between prime and sports and Amazon, you know, Walmart made a big move getting into television with Vizio, I guess. What are you seeing from that relationship. Can they contend in that same kind of space and might we see other retailers kind of pushing that direction?

[Anne Harrell]

Absolutely. I think what Walmart's doing is they're building an ecosystem and I think that's the right clay in this, this modern world that we're all living in for, for retail, media and commerce in general. The reason for that is while search is so important, the baseline, the point of conversion is so important. To get people to that point of conversion you have to build up the funnel. And that's exactly what Walmart's doing. They released on site display recently which Packvue integrated with, which allows you to have that kind of on site programmatic strategy. They have a connection to the trade desk where you can have off site and non endemic inventory through Walmart and now with even more upper funnel when you get into streaming and ctv, which is a great way to get a lot of reach and then that reach will trickle down into the display, which will trickle down into the search, which will ultimately increase your sales. So by creating an ecosystem, you're really building a funnel for people to optimize without having to go outside of the Walmart network, which benefits both Walmart and the customer. Because as we talked about at the start of this, the closed loop measurement is easier when it's all within one retailer platform.

[Mike Shields]

I guess the question over time is how many of those 70 plus partners can build an ecosystem? Do they have to join forces or is there some kind of limited play there? We'll see what happens.

[Anne Harrell]

I think it's timing and also I think we're already seeing many of them join forces. I mentioned earlier that a lot of our inventory comes through aggregators. Those aggregators are them joining forces and they have the power to create this kind of network. Even if you're a small player, I don't think all hope is lost.

[Mike Shields]

All right, awesome stuff and thanks for your time.

[Anne Harrell]

Thanks for having me.