Podcast Summary:

Next in Media – Shane Atchison and Seth Gordon on Building Zaaz Collective for the Creator Economy
Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Mike Shields
Guests: Shane Atchison (CEO, Zazz Collective), Seth Gordon (Co-Founder, Zazz Collective)

Overview

In this episode, Mike Shields interviews Shane Atchison, former Wonderman CEO and now CEO of Zazz Collective, and Seth Gordon, a film director known for "Horrible Bosses" and co-founder of Zazz Collective. The discussion centers on their new initiative, Zazz Collective (stylized as "Zaaz"), which aims to empower mid-level creators by providing them with the tools, data, and collective intelligence typically reserved for top-tier content producers and agencies. The episode explores the creator economy's rapid evolution, Zaaz’s differentiated approach to supporting creators, and the challenges—and opportunities—of bridging brands and “micro” influencers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Backgrounds of the Guests and Genesis of Zaaz Collective

• Shane Atchison: Longtime content creator and executive in digital experience, advertising, and product design.
  "I’m an entrepreneur. I’m a purist, human and a maker…better part of the last 15 years in the advertising, content and experience space." (01:03)
• Seth Gordon: Film director/producer with expertise in TV, documentary, and film.
• Origin:
  The pair, longtime friends and collaborators, saw a gap for supporting creators outside the top 1% who lack traditional agency support but still have significant influence.
  "Depending on who you listen to, there's 100 to 200 to 400 million creators…trying to make an impact, trying to make a dollar." – Shane (02:20)

2. Zaaz Collective: Vision and Structure

• The Collective Model:
  • Zaaz isn’t just a software tool—it’s a hybrid platform and network.
  • Creators join as yearly members, get anonymized data pooled for benchmarking, and gain access to shared intelligence about brand deals, best AI prompts, and more.
• Key Features:
  • Aggregates industry intelligence so creators can tell a "good deal" from a bad one.
  • Facilitates peer-learning by surfacing tactics, prompts, and negotiations across the network. "We want to give every member…a reference point to know if that’s a good deal or not." – Shane (03:22)

3. Challenges Facing Mid-Level Creators

• Lack of Industry Knowledge:
  Lots of creators get “screwed” on their first deals due to ignorance, with little access to benchmarks or networks.
  "The first time my brand approached me, I had no idea what to charge and I felt like I got screwed." – Mike (04:18)
• 'Wild West' Nature of Creator Economy:
  "There's nobody looking out for these creators…The notion of creating a collective to help them look out for each other is really promising." – Seth (06:12, 07:05)
• Economic Reality:
  Only ~4% of creators make six figures; 96% make minimum wage or less. The majority are "micro" creators with 5,000–100,000 real followers, hustling for a living.
  "96% of creators are making…minimum wage or less. 4 or 5% are making six figures…" – Shane (07:40)

4. Zaaz’s Solutions for Creators

• One-Stop Data and Audience Analysis:
  • Aggregates analytics across platforms—solving for fragmented dashboards.
  • Surfaces real audience interests, demystifies “follower” vs. “engagement” distinctions.
  • Analyses comment quality and sentiment to help creators prioritize responses and opportunities. "If you're tuning out everything, then you're missing all…the possible good leads...It can turn into a profit center." – Seth (10:44, 11:14)
• 'Comments to Commerce':
  • Identifies purchase-intent comments/opportunities for affiliate links.
  • Prioritizes engagement with high-value comments to boost media value and monetization. "We call that comments to commerce…If you can give [audience] what they’re looking for…the creator gets affiliate commission." – Shane (11:29)

5. Connecting Brands and Creators

• For Creators:
  • Provides tools and insight to showcase evolving, not static, “media kits”.
  • Equips creators with data-driven audience profiles and momentum tracking, improving attractiveness to brands.
• For Brands:
  • Aims for transparency in engagement rate and 'earned media value'—typically hidden metrics.
  • Pushes dynamic updates to discovery platforms, keeping creators’ profiles current. "We believe there's still this…presumption…of the creator has intermediate kit number of followers…But where’s the momentum?" – Shane (14:02) "Our goal is to actually get that earned media value and engagement rate to be as…I guess as transparent." – Shane (18:58)

6. The Broader Media Landscape

• The “Atomization” of Media:
  • Macro ad buys, like Warner Brothers’ $50 million campaigns, are fading; influence is diffusing into thousands of smaller but more authentic community creators.
  • Brands can access strong, “niche” audience ties that outperform raw top-line numbers. "The future is much more atomized." – Seth (20:49)
• Industry Need:
  • Brands want tools to discover and transact with many micro-influencers more efficiently—reducing friction in deal-making without losing bespoke value. "Once a day I have this conversation about the friction to find, engage, deploy, analyze, optimize…this creator landscape." – Shane (22:27)

7. AI and Language Models for Creators

• Custom LLMs:
  Each creator receives a personalized language model trained on their own comments, analytics, and activity, plus collective data and broader web info.
  • Surfaces top community prompts, best practices, etc. "At the core of this whole engine…it's a workflow that is training data. It's a language model for each individual creator..." – Shane (24:58)

8. Growth Plans and Community Building

• Beta launch:
  • Analytics engine and comment analyzer in soft launch.
  • Next: Launching creator-specific language models, unified content analytics, and transcription tools.
• Creator-to-Creator Events:
  • Running IRL and streamed workshops/help forums to foster peer guidance and practical collaboration—recently in Brazil due to high social engagement rates. "Brazil is the largest market in the world as far as social media engagement and also massive scale here..." – Shane (26:36)
• Expanding the Tent:
  • Outreach to dabblers and potential creators to increase diversity and scale of creator economy. "Try to get the message out to creators that may not realize they're creators…" – Seth (27:44)

Notable Quotes

• Shane Atchison:

  • "We're focused on helping creators be the best they can be, represent themselves the best possible way, so they can…have the best career, make the most money, be most fulfilled." (13:22)
  • "One of the first products we built was helping creators understand their audience across all social platforms in one spot..." (08:45)

• Seth Gordon:

  • "The notion of creating a collective to help [creators] look out for each other is really promising." (07:05)
  • "If you're tuning out everything, then you're missing all the possible good leads...That’s a clean and simple example of how engaging with the comments can make a big difference." (10:44, 11:14)
  • "There's so much power in understanding your audience, not just really in both senses..." (15:13)
  • "The future is much more atomized." (20:49)
  • "Try to get the message out to creators that may not realize they're creators that they can move comfortably towards that space." (27:44)

• Host, Mike Shields:

  • "You would think, well don't they all have dashboards…But it's…not that easy for the average mid level creator…" (08:45)
  • "What's worse is actually getting no comments. Which I find that is, that is the most depressing thing." (09:47)
  • "Can that (creator audience connection) be quantified for brands?" (18:58)

Important Timestamps

• 00:52 – Guests introduce themselves and backgrounds
• 02:20 – Zaaz’s mission and creator collective concept
• 03:22 – How anonymized deal data and AI prompt sharing works
• 04:18 – Common challenges creators face with brand approaches
• 07:19 – Defining the “micro” creator: 5,000–100,000 followers
• 08:45 – Zaaz’s audience analytics across platforms
• 10:44–11:29 – “Comments to commerce,” surfacing actionable sentiment
• 13:22–14:02 – Importance of data and dynamic profile updates for pitching
• 18:58 – Quantifying micro-influencer value for brands
• 22:27 – The friction in matching micro-creators with brand dollars
• 24:58 – Personalized creator language models and AI integration
• 26:36 – Beta launch, events in Brazil, go-to-market plans
• 27:44 – Seth’s vision: Lowering the bar for new creators

Memorable Moments

• Comments-to-Commerce Framework (11:29): Creators can turn comment sections into revenue streams by identifying and responding to purchase signals.
• "Atomized" Media Future (20:49): The hosts vividly capture the end of “broad audience, massive spend” Hollywood and the dawn of specialized, data-supported micro-influencers.
• Brazil as Social Media Leader (26:36): Zaaz recognizes and invests in Brazil for its leading engagement rates and community scale.

Tone

The conversation is candid, pragmatic, and lightly humorous, often referencing the chaos and opportunity in the “wild west” of the creator economy. Both guests are passionate about creating equitable opportunities for “the middle class of creators” and emphasize support, data empowerment, and collaborative learning.

Summary Takeaway

Zaaz Collective is positioning itself as a transformative support and analytics network for mid-level creators, equipping them with peer-shared, anonymized data and custom AI tools. The goal: Turn fragmented, under-incentivized hustlers into data-savvy, self-representing “mini media companies,” bridging the gulf between brand demand and authentic, niche influence. The future, the guests agree, is about deep audience understanding, creator empowerment, and smart, atomized connections—far beyond the old world of big agencies and blockbuster buys.