Snap's CMO Grace Kao: Beyond Social Media - Connecting Audiences, Brands & Developers

Summary

Next in Media: Snap's CMO Grace Kao on Connecting Audiences, Brands & Developers

Release Date: July 15, 2025
Host: Mike Shields
Guest: Grace Kao, Chief Marketing Officer at Snap

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Next in Media, host Mike Shields interviews Grace Kao, the Chief Marketing Officer at Snap, delving into the transformative strategies Snap employs to bridge connections between audiences, brands, and developers in a rapidly evolving media landscape.

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Grace Kao’s Role and Snap’s Multi-Audience Strategy [01:12 - 02:23]

Grace Kao begins by outlining her multifaceted role at Snap, emphasizing the platform’s diverse audience base. Unlike traditional consumer-focused CMOs, Grace’s responsibilities span across B2B marketers, advertisers, and developers.

“We do have multiple audiences for Snap. The audiences that I want to reach include everyone from consumers who download Snapchat, B2B marketers and advertisers who see Snap as a great place to tell their brand stories, and also developers who create amazing experiences for brands.”
- Grace Kao [01:50]

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Snap’s Generational Appeal and Longevity [02:23 - 04:53]

Mike Shields raises an interesting point about Snap’s enduring popularity, especially among younger generations. Contrary to expectations, Snap continues to thrive beyond its initial Gen Z base, maintaining significant engagement across Millennials and older demographics.

“We actually have a majority of an older audience on our platform.”
- Grace Kao [04:53]

Grace attributes this longevity to Snap’s core values of connection, creativity, and positivity, ensuring the platform remains relevant and engaging across different age groups.

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Innovative Features for Brands: Map Tab and Chat [05:36 - 09:54]

Grace introduces Promoted Places and enhanced chat functionalities as pivotal features for brands on Snap. These innovations allow brands to interact with users in new, meaningful ways beyond traditional advertising.

“We launched Promoted Places so now brands can actually show up on the map, allowing users to find places to meet up and for brands to be discovered organically.”
- Grace Kao [06:54]

Additionally, the chat feature provides a platform for one-to-one conversations between brands and users, fostering deeper relationships and engagement.

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Generation Insights Report: Authenticity and Creativity [09:54 - 12:50]

Discussing the Snapchat Generation Insights Report, Grace highlights key trends among Snap users, such as the desire for authenticity, voice interactions, and creative expression.

“Authenticity is a major trend. People want to feel like they can be themselves and share who they really are at any given moment.”
- Grace Kao [10:14]

She also notes the rise in voice memos and creative uses of Bitmojis, reflecting users' need for more personal and expressive communication methods.

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Catering to Diverse Brands and Evolving Attribution Strategies [13:18 - 15:35]

Grace discusses how Snap accommodates brands of all sizes by offering effective platforms and automated tools for campaign optimization, addressing the challenges posed by industry changes such as Apple's privacy updates.

“We provide AI tools and automated solutions to help brands, regardless of size, achieve their business goals efficiently.”
- Grace Kao [15:03]

She emphasizes Snap’s commitment to flexibility and scalability, ensuring that both small businesses and large enterprises can leverage the platform’s capabilities to meet their unique marketing objectives.

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Advanced Creative Tools and AI Integration [16:01 - 17:42]

The conversation shifts to Snap’s AI-powered creative tools, including AR lenses and the upcoming Easy Lens tool, which democratize AR content creation for brands.

“We launched Easy Lens, a tool that allows creators to generate AR lenses in seconds with simple prompts.”
- Grace Kao [17:11]

These tools enable brands to craft interactive and engaging experiences, placing the audience at the center of their storytelling efforts.

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AR Adoption and Future Innovations [17:42 - 19:47]

Grace elaborates on the impressive 300 million daily AR engagements on Snap, showcasing the platform’s robust adoption of augmented reality. She highlights diverse AR applications, from shopping experiences to celebrity collaborations.

“We have 300 million AR engagements daily on Snapchat, reflecting the platform’s strong adoption and versatility.”
- Grace Kao [16:56]

Snap continues to innovate with tools that make AR creation accessible, supporting brands in experimenting with new ways to engage their audiences.

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Empowering Creators and Facilitating Brand Collaborations [19:04 - 22:08]

Grace discusses Snap’s role in supporting creators by providing them with opportunities to monetize their content and build careers on the platform. She underscores the importance of brand-creator collaborations in fostering a vibrant ecosystem.

“Creators feel like they can build their career on Snapchat, and we need brands involved to support and fuel each other’s growth.”
- Grace Kao [20:08]

Snap is developing scale tools to streamline collaborations, enabling brands to connect with creators who naturally align with their values and audiences.

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Latest Campaign: "Say It in a Snap" [22:08 - 23:26]

In discussing Snap’s recent campaign, "Say It in a Snap," Grace emphasizes the platform’s unique value proposition of facilitating authentic and effortless connections.

“Say it in a Snap is about showing the value of being able to quickly and authentically connect with others, whether it’s telling someone you love them or sharing a moment.”
- Grace Kao [22:17]

This campaign reinforces Snap’s mission to make meaningful communication simple and accessible for all users.

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Conclusion

Mike Shields wraps up the insightful discussion by appreciating Grace Kao’s comprehensive overview of Snap’s strategies to navigate the complexities of modern media and advertising. The interview underscores Snap’s commitment to innovation, authenticity, and community engagement, positioning it as a dynamic player in the media landscape.

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the conversation between Mike Shields and Grace Kao, highlighting Snap’s innovative approaches to connecting diverse audiences, empowering brands, and fostering creative collaborations. Whether you’re a marketer, developer, or simply interested in the future of media, this episode offers valuable insights into how Snap continues to evolve and lead in the digital age.

Transcript

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[Mike Shields]

Hi everybody. Welcome to Nexting Media. I'm Mike Shields. My guest this week is Grace Kyle. She is the chief media Chief marketing officer. Excuse me, of Snap. Wow, did I butcher that? Hey Grace, how's it going?

[Grace Kyle]

Hey. Hey. Hi Mike. So much. Thank you so much for having us.

[Mike Shields]

Same excited to talk to you. You, you're in your new role for a couple months of. Good timing. Stupid question. So when you're like when you're CMO at a big brand like Pepsi or something, that is a. You're in charge of the consumer marketing and everything. When you're CMO at an ad tech company, it's purely a B2B gig. What is this more akin to that or like what is your kind of purview and main, main mission here?

[Grace Kyle]

I took this gig which I'm loving is the fact that we do have multiple audiences for Snap. So so the audiences that I want to reach include everyone from consumers. So people who consume the app and download the app for Snapchat. Absolutely. B2B. I love B2B marketers and advertisers so people can see Snap as a great place for them to tell their brand stories and then also developers. So we definitely also from a marketing standpoint talk to developers because we, we want them to create amazing things and amazing experiences for brands as well as.

[Mike Shields]

Yeah, people forget about that constituency probably requires a very, a very unique kind of approach. So that's a lot of stuff going on. I want to ask you where do you, you know, you know, it's interesting to me, you know, Snap, I guess, burst on the scene like what, 10ish years ago? A little more than that. You might have thought that it was like, it was, it was definitely taken up by younger people in the beginning and it got broader. You might have thought that, that, that would have trended out at a certain point, but focus group of one, like all my kids and all their friends are on Snap. It's like their first thing. And I would have thought, oh, that's like kind of, you know, at this point old. But why do you think that is worked generation to generation already at this point?

[Grace Kyle]

You know, I would say, you know, I have a 16 year old and 14 year old and I have to say, since I've taken this job, I'm like the most popular mom at school, which I very much appreciate. I would say there's a couple of things. One, if you look at Snapchat, unlike other apps, it opens up to a camera. So even before creators were kind of a big thing and we're so happy and love our creators, I think it was always this belief that anybody could create and that should be easy and fast for anyone to try to communicate or connect with someone. So at the core of Snapchat, throughout the years of all these different generations, it is about connection and making you feel closer to your family and friends. And I think that never goes out of style, you know, and the fact that it's so easy that you can open up to the camera and easily share your point of view, I think that has helped. The other thing I would say is just if you look at our company values, it's always been creativity, which I just spoke to, but it's also about positivity and making it fun. Like, I think we all need more fun, more, more laughter, more joy in our world.

[Mike Shields]

Like you growing up now, you were warned, you know, you were warned by educators and parents to be careful, don't do anything stupid and social, don't. Yeah, that's definitely appealing, I think.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah. Well, I love that your kids are on Snap.

[Mike Shields]

I think they also like, like it that it's not my wife and I's thing. Really? Yeah. So, like that's going to change over time for you guys. As, you know, millennials have kids and younger, I imagine in the B2B sector is one of your challenges. This is common for a lot of social platforms, I think. But the decision makers, the 40 plus crowd who are spending the money, brands and agencies may not be big users. They're not as. Even though you've been around for a long time, like, is that a. Is it still hard to help them understand the potential or you've gone past that point?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I would say that, you know, we have definitely Gen Z, but we definitely have Millennials and above. So I think that's maybe the misperception is that we actually have a majority of actually an older audience on our platform. But I think for marketers and advertisers, a lot of what we feel that we have a great value or benefit to them is that we have interesting different canvases that perhaps they can't get anywhere else. So perhaps when you have, like other apps that are, oh, you have a video app or you have a messaging app or, you know, even a map app, what I love about Snapchat is we actually have it all, all in one experience.

[Mike Shields]

That's true. It's not a single use platform.

[Grace Kyle]

Correct, Correct. So for. From a, you know, yes, if you have video as a market where we definitely have those opportunities, I think people forget that we actually invented stories. And so this idea of short form was something that we started. And I think what we're super excited to offer up for marketers and advertisers now is now in the map tab, as well as our chat tab, there are now opportunities for brands and advertisers to speak to their audiences directly in those different areas as well. And I think that's kind of also what's given Snapchat this longevity from a B2B standpoint with our B2B audience.

[Mike Shields]

So that's interesting. Those are two areas that are just not. Weren't traditionally monetized in a big way, especially chat. But even. But the mapping thing, what. What are brands? What do you encourage them to do there? I imagine that's different than just make a, you know, a short, short video or something that. That is more typical of the story. What are they doing there?

[Grace Kyle]

Which you can still do, right? You can still do. But I think what was so fun and was so surprising to me on our map canvas or our Map tab is that usually maps are some utility, right? You go from A to B. But the way people use map on our platform is actually to feel connected. So actually you open up the map so you can see where all your friends are or your family, My kids.

[Mike Shields]

Oh, so and so is on vacation. So and so city like that. So it's. It's very. It's very social.

[Grace Kyle]

It's very social. And so it's the fact that it's almost this then feeling connected to each other even though they may be physically apart. And so I think what we learned with that insight, you can imagine for a brand if you have a in real life experience to be able to show up on a map where the friends is like, I'm only 10 minutes away from, you know, X place. Do you want to meet here? Or hey, you know, I hear this place has a sale, let's move over there. Like you're only, you know, 10 minutes away. So I felt like, you know, we've launched this product called Promoted Places so now brands can actually show up on the map. And so when people are looking to connect, we're actually offering a place like there's a benefit for the user where they can actually find a place to meet up and then for brands actually be discovered. So that's one place and then there's chat. Like, you know, for many, many years we have heard that brands are like, when are you going to be able to open up chat as a place for us?

[Mike Shields]

How do we get in there? There's so much activity there.

[Grace Kyle]

There's so much activity there. And we feel like it's also an interesting way for brands to rethink frequency. Like we talk about reach and frequency. So on average people open up our Snapchat 40 times a day. And when we talk about creators, they actually post on Snapchat 140 times a day. Because we aren't about being overly curated.

[Mike Shields]

Right. That is so different than what you think of, of the, you know, the creator economy. And as YouTubers are like making episodic shows and it's like once a week, that is really different here.

[Grace Kyle]

It's more like whether you're a creator or person, we just want you to share any moment with what's top of mind really for you to feel again connected to, to your community, whether it's family, friends or even the creators and brands that you love as well. And so chat really was to open up that opportunity for brands to feel like that you can have that more one to one conversation with your audiences. And what we learned is that our audiences actually welcome brands and want to have a relationship with brands directly. And so chat perhaps you know, offers again another new surface that didn't exist before. And so I want to think about like how we invented stories. I think this is again our next kind of next phase of really focusing on chat being a great opportunity.

[Mike Shields]

And so you haven't, the thinking was you really should be, you got to be careful. That's personal. That's intimate. Like, generally speaking about messaging, you found a way to do that without, you know, like feeling like you're interrupting private conversations or something.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, because you have an option, right, as an audience to whether you want to open up that chat or not. But obviously we also want to feel like we are providing brands an opportunity to target. So it's just a nicer match. Right. And it's welcome on both sides. But again, all the studies that have shown that our audience actually welcome brands into their community and see them as part of their community.

[Mike Shields]

All right, you guys have recently put out a report, Generation Insights Report. We are, we love to generalize about Gen Z or Millennials and the big differences or Alpha's coming up, coming along with their unique. What are you. What are some things that maybe you guys know that we don't know or that are perhaps surprising about your different demographics?

[Grace Kyle]

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for asking. The report is called Snapchat Generation. And like I said, I have two of those generation people in, in our household. And so I feel like I'm getting to know my kids more better too. Some fun trends that we've seen is, and, and I'm sure you might have heard this in other places, but we definitely see it every single day on Snapchat is this idea of authenticity. Like I kind of spoke about it before, you know, this generation of people want to feel like they can be themselves and that they don't have to be perfect and that they can share who they really are at any given moment in time. And so it's just fun to see that a lot of the snaps we see are blurry or, you know, instead of like a plate of food that's perfectly looking perfect, people actually like to snap, like after they've eaten their plate, an empty plate. And that just goes to show this idea of sharing your real self. So we've seen that as a trend. The other thing that we've seen is that voice is actually really big on Snap. So people leaving voice memos and, and you'll love this, Mike. Having almost like mini podcasts, mini intimate, one on one podcast with their friends on Snap was something that came up. So the fact that people are using their voice, literally using their voice on.

[Mike Shields]

Snapchat and is that a pretty recent phenomenon or is it.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, we've seen growth in voice memos to each other because I would.

[Mike Shields]

Think that's like so passe. They don't, kids don't, you know, voicemail and answering machines and things like that. That's interesting.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, because they feel that they want to again, share how they're feeling at any given moment. And so we thought that was actually a really surprising piece as well. But those are a couple of things that I thought was very interesting. And then again, creativity. Right. When we look at your bitmojis, I think on average people change. They were like 100 million different Bitmoji outfit changes. So the thought of that you have different moods and that you want to express yourself in different ways. So I think this next generation, and it makes me happy because I have two of them, super creative, super wanting to be real, like not being afraid of being imperfect is not totally screwed.

[Mike Shields]

And depressed and sensitive. All right. I feel better.

[Grace Kyle]

I mean we've also seen again like that we did this survey and when we asked this generation of like, what, what were values that they valued? They actually said work ethic, trust, respect were the highest aspects of what they valued right now. So, yeah, that's hopefully it's a pretty thoughtful generation.

[Mike Shields]

All right, good, good. I'm liking what I'm hearing. What? Okay. When you talk to brands, it's, it is a, your strength and your, your challenge, I would think is you're talking to all kinds of different brands of different sizes and KPIs and you, you, you, you know, you try and do you try and nail the brand, the big brands and the, you know, hard hardcore doctor guys, the mobile games, how do you kind of craft messaging to cater to all those different constituencies and what does that dynamic look like between all those players?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I would say whether you are a small business and my husband is one or a big brand. Right. We feel that we provide first and foremost an effective platform. So it doesn't matter what size you are, you are, I feel like every business, you're here to make sure that you achieve your business goals, business results and we can provide. And so first and foremost from Snapchat, we want you to feel that we are an effective platform for you and a hard working one. And then I would say that we, we know that you're going to have different things on your media plan, but what we feel that Snapchat can bring to the table is one, a really great understanding of this, this generation that we just talked about, the Snapchat generation. And then we also feel that we provide different brand experiences that you can't get anywhere else. So whether it's chat, which you know, we called sponsored snaps, or if it's promoted places on the map, we feel like we can run your current assets. But then we can hopefully also show that you can stretch and do different ways of interacting with your audience. Because everything we've seen with this audience is that they aren't passive at all. They want more from you and want to engage with you more frequently and more perhaps in more one on one or intimate settings.

[Mike Shields]

I want to come back to the brand stuff. But when it comes to the, you know, for the small businesses or the brands that really care about proving effectiveness, you've probably had to evolve your attribution over the years. With changes with Apple and just the way the industry is changing, where do things kind of stand now in helping? You know, not every campaign is going to be a direct sale driving retail campaign. But in terms of your attribution kind of what's the state of things?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I think we're providing, what we're trying to do is definitely provide more different solutions. So we just rolled out smart campaign solutions where we are looking at more ways that brands can automate the way they buy, the way they bid and the way they optimize. So I think we know that today business changes every single day. So how can we again provide more AI tools, automated tools to make it easier for, for brands no matter the size and no matter the objective.

[Mike Shields]

Now when it comes to creative, and you mentioned this a couple of times, like there's a overall push towards, or not I shouldn't say push, but a lot of experimentation with gen AI and trying to brands would like to be able to produce a lot more creative and use it the right moment. You know, does that lend itself? Because Snap is sort of has a very unique style of creative. You often use outside developers or third parties. Does it lend itself to that? Can you guys help accelerate that? What's that? What does that look like?

[Grace Kyle]

Absolutely. I think for us is because this generation, people come to Snapchat that they feel like they can be themselves and not perfect. So you think from a brand standpoint you could show up like a Snapchatter. Like we always advise brands like just experiment, try different things. It's very easy to create on Snap if you look at our tools so you can have that kind of frequency and test and optimize more quickly. We feel like on Snapchat, the other thing that we feel like we can offer is the fact that when you look at AI tools, what's unique on Snapchat is that we feel that you could, because we again open to camera, you immediately put your audience as the center of your brand story. So we have AI Gen I AR lenses. So you can, as a brand, create a branded experience with ar, but you can have your audience actually be the star of that lens. And so we feel like that's actually super.

[Mike Shields]

That's pretty different.

[Grace Kyle]

And it's very, very easy for our brand to do that because it is AI powered. Just to give you a framing that. I think we have 300 million AR engagements daily on Slack.

[Mike Shields]

Okay, that was gonna be my next question because I think people wondered, you know, we're still wondering if VR has had moments and it's definitely advanced, but is there, or is there going to be like this huge revolution? And it seems to be coming. Although there's some impatience with AR last few years, I think every brand thought they were going to be using that on all kinds of platforms. That hasn't totally happened, but it sounds like it's still really percolating on Snap. Is that because it's so easy? Is it because the users use it natively? What's going on there?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I think a couple of things. We've definitely seen growth again, 300 million daily AR engagements. So we actually have seen growth of AR adoption. I think we're also trying to provide easier tools for, for anyone to be able to create on ar. So for example, there's going to be a new tool that we're launching called Easy Lens. So you can have like a simple prompt and type in and it'll create a AR lens in seconds. So that's something we're super excited about.

[Mike Shields]

Because I'm sure some brands are like, I don't even know how to get started. What do I do?

[Grace Kyle]

Exactly, exactly. So I think we are definitely. This is the developer side, right? For. For our, our standpoint of, of creating very easy tools. Our vision is that creator, not a developer, any creator should be able to create a lens, an AR lens, easily.

[Mike Shields]

Now, I know in the past you've showcased a lot of use of AR for shopping, for trying stuff on. I think seeing how styles look, is that still a big trend? What are brands doing there? That might be kind of interesting.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, we are definitely using ar. So for brands, we've seen brands come to us to use AR for just trial, like whether it is beauty or clothing, we've definitely seen that. We've also seen a lot of creators do fun things. So for example, when Beyonce launched Cowboy Carter, you could use a Cowboy Carter lens and put yourself in a Cowboy Carter outfit. So we've seen very different use cases. But I think the key thing that we've always Encouraged brands is just you can actually put your audience at the center and make them be a co collaborator with you from a creative standpoint.

[Mike Shields]

And do you guys want to be a shopping fulfillment platform or do you, do you mostly send those, place those folks to retailer sites or other outlets?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I think for us is we want to be client objective led and client results led. So for us, we want to make sure if you're, if your objective is to drive traffic to your stores, then that's our objective too.

[Mike Shields]

Okay. I want to come back to creators. You know, it's been interesting. Every, every platform kind of has evolved about what, what role they're going to play in their platform and then how they want to interact with brands or not. Where are you in terms of, do you want to be totally involved in connecting brands and creators, let them do their own thing, help facilitate things? How has that evolved?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, I think for us it, to me it's, it's part of the flywheel, right, is that we want creators to feel like that they can come to our platform and that they can build their career, something that they love and you know, perhaps on other platforms they can provide a certain outlet. What we've seen creators come to us for is again similar to how we see our users come to us, is that creators feel like that they can be themselves, be authentic, try different things first because it's such a safe and positive environment. So we get the engagement of like 140 posts per day on, on Snapchat. But it's only good and it serves creators if they feel like that they can monetize and make and make money and start a career. And that's where we feel like we need to have brands involved. Right. And so we very much do want brands and creators to feel like that Snapchat is a place that they can collaborate and continue to fuel each other's businesses on our platform.

[Mike Shields]

And how do you, given that you're, you're working with creators, you working with retail, you've got big video, it's a great problem to have, but you could potentially get money from all different parts of a brand's budget or agency. Are you mostly talking these days to social agencies, to the big TV folks, to the retail guys, to special groups like what is, what is your deal flow look like? And is there, is there a way that that's going to be more centralized or never going to be that way?

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, no, I think for us is we are trying to look for more scale tools. So it is going to be Easier for brands to be able to go on to perhaps a tool that they then find creators that have a natural affinity to your brand already and that are already fans and advocates of your brand. So we are looking into scale tools and collab tools between brands and creators. And then on the creator side, I think we've always been a champion of emerging creators to feel like that you can start your career on Snapchat. And so that's also something that we've been fostering as well.

[Mike Shields]

Last thing, Grace, tell us about. You've got a. You've got a pretty new campaign saying it snapped. What's the thinking behind that? I kind of describe that. That strategy for folks.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah. So I would say thank you so much for asking, Mike. You know, last year we have launches a campaign of less social media, more Snapchat. And I love. I love that we drew a line in the sand of how we're different from all the other apps, which we generally feel like we are because we are fundamentally a place where people feel like they can be themselves and that we fundamentally feel that it shouldn't be that hard. In fact, it should be very fast and easy for you to be able to connect with people that you love, whether it's family, friends, creators, or brands. And so say it in a snap really is. Is telling everyone that value of the fact, like, it is so easy for you to be able to reach out and connect with someone and just tell them that you love them, tell them how you're feeling, tell them what you're working on. Maybe I'll tell them that I was on this amazing podcast with my. But, yeah, I think that is the spirit of Satan. Snap.

[Mike Shields]

I have to call my family members now. You're making me feel bad. Like I'm. I haven't told anyone I love them in a long time.

[Grace Kyle]

Your kids?

[Mike Shields]

No, they don't want that at all.

[Grace Kyle]

I don't think they do.

[Mike Shields]

That's funny. All right, well, awesome stuff, Grace. Thanks so much for taking time out and let's chat down the road again.

[Grace Kyle]

Yeah, sounds great. Thank you again.