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TikTok in Limbo - What Should Brands and Creators Be Watching For
00:19:05
Next in Creator Media spoke with Erica Ortega, Director of Product Marketing at Tubular Labs about whether users bailed on TikTok during the very short ban, which platforms might win if TikTok disappears, and why not every short form platform is the same.
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:22]
B
Hi, thanks for having me.
- [01:24]
A
Excited to have you. It's a really good time to talk to you. I mean, there's so much going on in this broader web video social video space, obviously, but I know Tubular for a long time, but it might be good to give people an overview of like who you guys are, where, where, how you get your data, how you use it, that kind of thing. If you don't mind.
- [01:42]
B
Sure. So Tubular provides a big picture view of social video content, social trends and audience behaviors across the most popular social platforms. So that's YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch and Tikt. We work directly with the major platforms to ingest data around social video uploads, the number of views, engagements, so like likes and comments, et cetera. And we're basically able to provide insights about audience behaviors into unique viewers, things like minutes watched and overlapping viewership. We're an OG in the social space. We're the only company that's an official measurement partner to Meta and YouTube. We've got the world's largest social video database, over 15 billion videos and 40 million creators. So I could go on and on about this, but yeah, you made a bright point.
- [02:27]
A
But this is not a panel. This is not projected. This is like pulled from their APIs, crunched analytics, that kind of thing.
- [02:34]
B
So we've got a bunch of different data sources. So it's a. We have a variety of data sources. Some of them, a lot of it is because of our direct partnerships with the platforms. We are scrappy, we are resourceful, we have lots of ways of getting data and we basically pair it all together so that we can have really cool insights.
- [02:50]
A
Obviously, it's very hard to sum up, like the state of all this social video, web video or whatever you're call it right now or at any given moment. But are there anything, are there any broad content trends that maybe brands should know about, either. Either across YouTube or like on TikTok, in light of this weird moment we're in where TikTok is in limbo and there's so much change going on or potential change.
- [03:10]
B
Yeah. So the thing about social media is that it's moving so fast all the time. It's constantly evolving. So, yes, there was a temporary panic from some people that were, you know, prompting moves to apps like RedNote. It had pretty limited impact on the existing social video ecosystem. Like you didn't see like this huge.
- [03:28]
A
Crash or something that happened when TikTok was down for a few, a few.
- [03:31]
B
Hours or whatever it was so little Data point us. TikTok videos about RedNote generated about 71.4 million views in that weekend, January 17th through 19th. So it was not insignificant, but also not really major compared to just daily totals. Like, I looked at what's trending in terms of topics last week, Rednet was at the top and I looked last night and across multiple different platforms we have like Pam Bondi, the, you know, Trump's attorney general nominee, SpaceX, David lynch, like just regular old current event stuff. We've moved on.
- [04:04]
A
TikTok looks more like TikTok usually does, in other words, because the people had to kind of get either we don't know what's going to happen or they just had to move on from the panic that maybe set in.
- [04:13]
B
It was a talking point. People posted a bunch of content about it. You know, it was kind of a trend. The panic was itself just a daily trend. And it came and went just like they all do. We're back, never really left.
- [04:25]
A
Okay, so in broader terms, what's been popping lately? I know it's so broad and it changes all the time. You know, are you seeing any particular genres or formats really popping lately? What, like what, what is. What's kind of drawing people's attention? And does it look markedly different than the other short form Platforms.
- [04:42]
B
I mean, really, I. It's not a great answer, but you know, TikTok has been pretty business as usual and the fact that it's, it's constantly changing, you know, and that that is normal. So like for January so far, some of the top trends we've seen were like, of course, videos about the ban asmr. People are probably looking for some relief, you know. Yeah, a little stress Squid games, NBA, like these are. It's just normal. It's kind of just normal. It's. It's in everything, you know, and that's the thing. It's so massive. There's so much content constantly coming in and things that, you know you're seeing more of. It's because the algorithm's feeding it to you because that's what you want to see more of. But it's not really all that different than normal.
- [05:22]
A
Are you seeing. I know that TikTok has played with the rules on duration. Have you seen a lot of big change over the last couple of years in terms of trying to get longer? Is it still. Are the patterns pretty similar to they've been. Not that it's. Not that it's 20 year history or anything like that, but.
- [05:36]
B
Yeah, I know it's a good question. I don't have all the data on that off the top of my head, so I don't know that I'm prepared.
- [05:43]
A
But you wouldn't say like, oh my God, everyone is watching 10 minute videos now for the.
- [05:46]
B
As the norm, I would say in terms of what our clients are focused on, it depends on who they are. We have clients who are interested in both longer form and shorter form. There's people who only want to see shorter form content and there's people who want to exclude shorter form content because they only want to look at longer form. It's easier to monetize. For example, like if you're posting on YouTube, you want to make sure you've got enough ad roll opportunities. So both are important. Depends on who you are and what you're trying to do with it. The biggest thing is diversity. Everything, everything everyone's pushing, you have to have long form. And then you have to be able to reformat, you know, edit it, modify it for the platform that you want to post because people demand it all.
- [06:24]
A
Okay, not to beat a dead horse, I'll move on. But is there any evidence that a bunch of people you mentioned there was. There's. It sounds like there's more video about these alternatives than actual movement. Is there any evidence that there was a migration or that's in the works, that everyone switched their behavior to Shorts or Lemon or something else.
- [06:41]
B
Yeah. So uploads on TikTok from January 18 to January 19 did drop by 36%. This has kind of recovered. So definitely a bit of a panic. So I think.
- [06:52]
A
And it wasn't available for. Right.
- [06:54]
B
It wasn't available.
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A
Right.
- [06:55]
B
There's that kind of not surprising. Right, that, you know, there was a drop. It has gone back to sort of normal levels. I will say there are some very savvy creators that took advantage of the situation. For example, Charli D'Amelio, who is, you know, massively popular. Right. Even I know that is all of Q4. All of Q4. On TikTok, she generated 939 million views in those few days January 17th to 19th. She blitzed TikTok 27 videos uploaded. She had 959 million videos in just those three days, more than she had for all of Q4, which is wild. So she more than doubled the views of the next biggest creator during that timeframe. Just absolutely crushed it. So there was an opportunity. She seized it. That's, you know, it was like, oh, TikTok's going away. Not for me. I've got all this stuff, you know, ready to go blitz. And she crushed it. So you gotta be on top of it. And there's. There's big money to be made if you're. If you're good at it.
- [07:53]
A
All right, so using her as an example, and it's gonna. It's gonna range widely, I think. But, like, does everybody kind of do. Does everybody who is a big TikToker use reels and shorts in the same way? Is it a totally different makeup? Is it more like a second third window for these creators? Like, she didn't blitz those other two platforms the same way.
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B
I'm guessing Charlie's just tick tock. She's always been. Yeah.
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A
I mean, maybe that's not a good example because she's so tick tock. Yeah.
- [08:20]
B
It's like anything else. You've got to know your audience. And, you know, if she's catering to kind of a Gen Z audience and they're much more, you know, interested in TikTok these days, just categorically speaking, not speaking for everyone, but, yeah, you got to know your audience. And if you are, you know, retail, fashion, brand, you have a broader appeal. Like. Yeah. Have a broader social. More diversified social strategy. It kind of depends on who you're trying to reach.
- [08:46]
A
Obviously, no one knows what's going to happen. So it's so unpredictable. Given that it's Trump, it's a Supreme Court, it's a law. I'm not an expert, but you made an interesting point. There's a, there's an assumption that, well, okay, if TikTok goes away tomorrow, everyone will just go to reels or shorts and that'll be that. But you like the Gen Z audience doesn't necessarily follow that pattern. Do or I guess we don't know what they will do. But is that, is that a concern if you're those other two platforms that you are not as strong with that generation and they might not just move over?
- [09:16]
B
I mean, I think, I know that there's probably huge conversations happening, you know, and I'm certainly not privy to those. So I think that my guess is as good as yours in this. We're waiting, we're watching, we're looking at the data. I don't know as much as I have. We have partnerships with the platforms. We are not in on that level of data. So I don't, I don't have the inside scoop. We're all just trying to evolve.
- [09:40]
A
Let's talk about brands. What, what has been again hard to generalize so many different kinds of brands and tactics. What's been working in short form? Because I talked to a bun a bunch of buyers recently and they're still depending on the brand. They're not, they're not all sure what to do with short form. How do they shove my message in such a short period of time? Do I want to interrupt somebody in that experience? What's, what's been, what have you seen that's been popping?
- [10:03]
B
You're right that there's a lot of different ways that brands use social and use it well. You know, some are doing their own content generation, you know, getting, trying to create really, really impactful content that is going to resonate with their audience. Some are going the partnership route. Getting you know, popular video creators to get the distribution to their audience. That's kind of a tried and true. There's others who are really good at video who make a really great long form video and then they create excellent snippets with you know, smart editing, et cetera, kind of like video trailers. That really works well with like retailers for example, creating things that are in a shopping format, you know, appeals to audiences. I would say that just staying on top of how your content looks and feels. So you know, the different kind of video hooks that, you know, influencers are doing, you know, whether it's oh, I'm putting on, you know, lipstick, or I'm moving and I'm getting in the car with you, or I'm buckling up or all these little tiny details. Pay attention to that stuff. That's what people are seeing in their feed all the time. And, you know, if you're trying to reach a certain audience, fit into that, you know, that look and feel and things like sounds like TikTok sounds like, for example, I love looking at, you know, what are, what are the popular TikTok sounds. You know what's gaining traction? Because after a while you're like, oh, my God, that's a song I can't get out of my head. I can't escape it. Like the squid games too. I haven't even seen squid games too. It's everywhere it's going to be. That's the next big thing I'm predicting. You heard it here first, you know, Messy by Lola Young, that's another one. I hadn't heard that song and now I can't stop hearing that song. You know, I would say just paying attention to what the algorithm is preferring and what, what people are used to seeing in their feed from.
- [11:44]
A
So, I mean, you've got to be, yeah, you've got to be in it and on it a lot and learning it from along with the audience. You can't just wait for things to happen. In terms of data or product innovation, what are clients pushing for you these days? Do they want. Are you getting a lot of questions about how do I. What metrics should I be? What matter to me in terms of completion or attention? Are you getting questions about how to translate my YouTube viewership to television? Like, what kind of questions are you getting right now? What are you being pushed for?
- [12:11]
B
Everyone wants to get insights faster. So, like, there's a lot of data is constantly changing and everyone's always looking for ways to, you know, get those silver bullet data points. Like, how do I, you know, how do I convince potential advertisers or partners to work with me? Or, you know, how do I find the next big thing that's going to work for my brand or whatever it is, and it's different for everybody. So for us, sometimes that means, you know, maybe we need to add some different filters that are, like, smarter making, you know, giving clients ways to filter out whatever they deem as the noise, you know, so that they can just focus on types of videos that are really relevant to their business. Again, that varies deeply client by client. So being able to filter like Video styles and formats, for example, and at the scale that we're talking about, that can be very, very powerful.
- [12:59]
A
Okay, what about one of the questions I keep having is in terms of finding the right creators and talents. It's, it's, it's a never ending challenge. Finding the right micro influencer is are there ways for them to cut through the getting through a top 10 list and always trying to partner with the big names they know or is there, have you been able to help them isolate, you know, fast growing creators or creators that are growing in a certain niche?
- [13:23]
B
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's one of the things that tubular is really great at because you can basically search or filter so that, you know, let's say I only want to if you're a shoe company, you know, and I only want to look at people who are in fashion or sports or, you know, I have these different areas. You can type in keywords, you can use our smart filters, you can filter out all the noise. I don't want beauty influencers, I don't want media companies. I just want a certain little subset of the social universe. You filter that out and then you can see, okay, within that space who is growing, who's at the top and who's growing. And we can let you see both. And if you understand those are very different things. So trending, you know, for the last week, the last month, the last quarter, very different from who's on top. Taylor Swift's always on top. Okay, I don't care. That's not insightful to me, you know, so how many brands are going to.
- [14:13]
A
Call Tara Swift and make and have a big campaign?
- [14:15]
B
She's already at the top. I want to find the up and coming. So we do both. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, you have these major, you know, brands, media companies, agencies who do rely on tubular data because it's changing. You want to get in before they're big because once they're at the top, they're expensive and you can't get them.
- [14:32]
A
This is probably particular to YouTube, but there's been a lot more evidence of the bigger creators trying to be more episodic in their content. You're seeing YouTube adjust their interface on television to kind of cater to a more season like model. I don't know if that's just the tippy top of the spear or you're seeing a lot of evidence of more, you know, predictable season like content from big creators. And if that's changing consumption patterns or that's that's still a niche thing. Have you seen any evidence on that front?
- [14:59]
B
You know, it's, it's a good question. I would say just in my, you know, my lifetime, I have seen that trend come and go and maybe it's coming back already. You know, I remember when there was like Snapchat, you know, stories that was like, you know, a big thing. All the companies were pushing like these, you know, big, big content pushes. I don't have that. You know, I think that's a great sort of deep dive research project and I think that, that maybe we'll use that, that as a, as an idea for our next report. Honestly, I haven't seen it, but I haven't looked.
- [15:30]
A
I want to ask you about, you know, you mentioned Twitch a year or two. I wrote about how you like there was a, there was a perception that Twitch was having a tougher time. It wasn't maybe what, what Amazon had wanted to, wanted it, hoped it to be and that live streaming was just going to be a very niche thing, right? Or there was only going to be. It was only going to appeal to certain number of fans and certain kinds of creators. More recently, you had Kai Sinende doing this crazy stunt in 30 days, I think, of streaming or whatever. Are we seeing an increase in live streaming consumption and are you seeing patterns change on Twitch because of all this attention this has gotten lately?
- [16:04]
B
I would say I don't have that data off the top of my head, but again, great questions. I don't want to mislead you.
- [16:12]
A
We didn't talk about this. When I'm throwing this out, you had.
- [16:14]
B
To know I don't have that data, but love the line of thinking, okay.
- [16:20]
A
So Tick Tock goes away tomorrow. Who wins?
- [16:24]
B
So Tick Tock has kind of changed the game. You know, we know this. You know, I don't know that it's going to be easy to replace it one for one, but at the same time, you know, everyone's trying. So I think what we've seen is that there is a strong preference for, you know, the short form content. You stay engaged. You're not being linked out, going elsewhere. You are staying. You are consuming content in this, like really engrossing way. You have, you know, these smart algorithms that adapt to you and what you want to see. Everyone loves that algorithm. And like, that's what I think. That's the secret sauce. Everyone's trying to copy and, or, you know, replace. Your guess is as good as ours. Should the platform go away? Will audience find new platforms? Will they go to, you know, the YouTube shorts and reels. Will that product enhancements on those platforms, you know, be enough? We're not really sure. I don't know that anyone wins. I'm certainly, you know, holding out hope that we don't lose it. But I think it's going to be a very interesting news cycle for the next couple months.
- [17:30]
A
I would think so, yeah. And I mean, I don't know, again, I don't know if you can answer this, but is it. How likely would it be or difficult for it be for someone to come along that was more of a clone, that was an alternate, a new app, versus trying to send everybody to existing platforms that are part of bigger motherships? Like, how impossible that would that be?
- [17:48]
B
I think that the statement that, you know, the red note was such a, you know, big, you know, it was a statement to. And I, I think that the. The platforms were probably paying attention, that there's not really loyalty, but there is.
- [18:06]
A
The audience is up for grabs.
- [18:07]
B
The audience. The audience will go where the audience feels like it needs to to get its dopamine hits. And I think that that's what everyone's after.
- [18:14]
A
I think you're saying LinkedIn, that's gotta be the next spot. You're seeing a lot more in Feed Video. Any. Okay, any last thoughts? Are there really important trends that brands should be paying attention to? Creators that are creator categories that they may not be in tune with? What else should people take away from this conversation?
- [18:31]
B
Erica, I think I haven't looked. I don't know. I have no good answer.
- [18:36]
A
No, that's okay.
- [18:36]
B
Sorry. Yeah, it's a great final question. I just don't. I have to look at the data to pull because it changes so often.
- [18:44]
A
Erica, thanks so much for taking time out. I appreciate it. Let's talk again. Great insights here and we'll talk again soon.
- [18:49]
B
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [18:51]
A
Big thanks to my guests this week, Tubular's Erica Ortega and my partners at View Planner. If you like this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you. We'll see you next time for what's Next in Creator Media. Thanks for listening.