What Happens When Retail Media Eats Everything

Summary

Next in Media: What Happens When Retail Media Eats Everything
Host: Mike Shields
Guest: Sami Rubin, Vice President of Integrated Marketing at WPromote
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Introduction and Background

In this episode of Next in Media, host Mike Shields engages in a comprehensive discussion with Sami Rubin, the Vice President of Integrated Marketing at WPromote. As a leading independent marketing agency, WPromote collaborates with clients across various industries, including entertainment, consumer packaged goods (CPG), retail, and financial services. Sami provides insights into the evolving landscape of media, marketing, and advertising, emphasizing the necessity of integrated strategies in a rapidly changing environment.

Sami Rubin [02:10]: "We've been driving full funnel marketing strategy and activation for our clients for years. And we've been continuing to invest in that way through, you know, some hires we've made from a creative and brand perspective as we continue to evolve and keep pace with what our clients need."

Retail Media Integration

A central theme of the conversation is the expansion of retail media beyond its traditional confines. Sami contends that retail media should no longer be viewed as a separate category but rather as an integral part of a broader media mix. She highlights the diversification of retail media investments, which now encompass Connected TV (CTV), podcasts, influencer partnerships, and more.

Sami Rubin [03:41]: "The distinction of retail media as a completely separate category of investment is becoming less and less meaningful every day. ... It's no longer just search ads, right? It's CTV, it's podcasts, it's influencer."

This perspective aligns with the strategies of retail giants like Amazon, who are evolving into media powerhouses to capture a larger share of marketing budgets. Sami emphasizes that the growth in retail media is driven by its expanded media mix rather than being an isolated phenomenon.

Organizational Structure Challenges

Integrating diverse media tactics within existing organizational structures presents significant challenges. Sami observes that many brands struggle with siloed departments, such as brand marketing, performance marketing, and sales teams, each managing different aspects of retail media independently. This fragmentation leads to inefficiencies and duplicated efforts.

Sami Rubin [05:40]: "Every brand has a completely different org structure. ... We're talking like three to potential four different marketing teams that are all thinking about CTV and where does this live and who owns this."

To address these challenges, Sami advocates for enhanced communication and transparency across teams. She suggests that brands need to adopt a unified approach to media planning to ensure that all investments are aligned with overarching business objectives.

Sami Rubin [07:37]: "You've got to start with communication and transparency. ... We can start to unify those conversations so they can say, okay, CTV is a priority for the media mix."

Social Shopping and Platform Uncertainty

The discussion also delves into the integration of social shopping within retail media. Sami notes the rise of platforms like TikTok Shops and the evolution of social shopping as critical destinations for brand and product discovery. However, she also addresses the uncertainties surrounding platform policies and potential bans, which add complexity to strategizing effectively.

Sami Rubin [09:24]: "Social shopping has evolved as well. ... Social is a new search, and it makes sense because that's how consumers are discovering new brands and products."

Sami reassures that WPromote's diverse media strategies, including leveraging platforms like YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels, position their clients to adapt to changes and continue engaging audiences even amidst platform-specific uncertainties.

Utilization and Challenges of Retail Media Data

A point of contention in the marketing community is the extensive use of retail media data and its application across various channels. Sami differentiates between sales data and audience data, explaining their distinct utilities.

Sami Rubin [15:02]: "If we're just talking about sales data, it's really powerful when it comes to integrating that into our media mix models... But when it comes to the audience data, there aren't really trends here."

She emphasizes the importance of testing and tailoring data usage to specific client needs, acknowledging that while sales data can enhance media mix models by providing clear insights into commerce outcomes, audience data's effectiveness varies depending on the context and application.

Resurgence of Marketing Mix Modeling

Marketing Mix Modeling (MMM) has experienced a renaissance, driven by the decline of third-party cookies and advancements in artificial intelligence (AI). Sami explains that MMM now offers more granular insights, making it accessible not just to large advertisers but also to brands with smaller budgets.

Sami Rubin [17:59]: "Around 2021 is really when I started seeing media mix models becoming more and more mainstream. ... With advancements in AI, there's a lot more analysis that can be done on lower spend thresholds."

The integration of MMM with other measurement techniques, such as Multi-Touch Attribution (MTA), allows for a more comprehensive understanding of media effectiveness, enabling brands to optimize their investments more strategically.

Role of AI in Media Buying and Strategy

AI's role in media buying and optimization is another critical topic addressed. While AI-driven tools offer advanced capabilities for bid management and optimization towards specific objectives, Sami asserts that human strategists remain essential.

Sami Rubin [21:23]: "There are media buying tools that are out there that can integrate bid management... I would say that we're still a ways away, but we are seeing more and more of these advanced measurement partners expand their API connections."

She argues that despite AI's growing capabilities, human expertise is necessary to interpret data, provide historical context, and adapt strategies to evolving consumer behaviors. This hybrid approach ensures that media plans are both data-driven and creatively informed.

Sami Rubin [22:35]: "At least for a long while, timing TBD. ... those insights are only going to be as impactful as the data and we can start to feed it more and more context so that those insights can be more and more robust."

CTV Performance Marketing Trends

Connected TV (CTV) represents a significant area of growth, especially as brands seek to drive measurable performance outcomes beyond traditional brand awareness. Sami shares her experience in programmatically buying high-value CTV inventory and achieving conversion lifts and in-store sales through targeted campaigns.

Sami Rubin [24:25]: "We are performance. Everything that we do needs to drive a measurable impact. ... we're seeing that meaningfully impact the bottom line for the business."

She highlights the importance of CTV partnerships and integrated measurement solutions in demonstrating tangible results, positioning CTV as a viable channel for brands aiming to achieve specific performance metrics.

Conclusion

The episode underscores the necessity of integrated media strategies in navigating the complexities of modern marketing landscapes. Sami Rubin's insights reveal that as retail media evolves and expands, brands must adopt unified approaches, leverage advanced data models, and blend AI capabilities with human expertise to optimize their media investments effectively. The future of media marketing lies in seamless integration, adaptability, and strategic innovation.

Sami Rubin [26:07]: "At least from where I sit, we're here. You just got to look for it. ... digitally native agencies have been buying CTV and premium CTV."

As the media ecosystem continues to transform, staying ahead requires continuous adaptation and a keen understanding of emerging trends and technologies.

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For more insights and discussions on the evolving media landscape, subscribe to Next in Media and stay informed on the latest industry developments.

Transcript

[Mike Shields]

Collaboration is a new competition. The One Audience alliance by Elemental TV unites premium publishers to tackle CTV's biggest challenge, fragmentation. By collaborating over AI powered audience insights and inventory, we're creating an ecosystem where advertisers win, publishers thrive and audiences stay engaged. Join The Movement Redefining [e-mail] One AudienceAlliance that's E L E M E N T A-L T V.com OneAud I E N C E A A L L I A N C E this week on Next in Media, I spoke with Sami Rubin. She's the Vice president of Integrated Marketing at wpromote. In Sammy's mind, we're all going a little bit overboard when we talk about retail media's massive growth as if it's its own universe. And at some point, in her mind, these worlds are going to come together. That definitely matches up with how category giants like Amazon are thinking about things. But as for big brands, well, as Sammy noted, they're kind of all over the place. So part of her job is to get these various teams and KPIs and constituencies to work together. It all makes for an interesting yet challenging set of circumstances over the next few years. Lots to get into. So let's get started. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Next in Media. I'm Mike Shields. I'm here with W Promotes VP of Integrated Media, Sami Rubin. Hey, Sami, thanks for being here.

[Sami Rubin]

Thanks for having me.

[Mike Shields]

So why don't we start with just the beginning? I think some folks in the industry will know your company, but maybe not. So maybe give us who you are, your background, a little bit about where you are, where you sit in the. In this universe.

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah, of course. So W Promote is a leading independent marketing agency. We work with clients across pretty much every vertical. We have entertainment, cpg, retail, financial services, and really partner with them to help them drive business growth through our approach to media creative and intelligence. We have a proprietary tech platform, Polaris, where we built a lot of really, really exciting advanced measurement solutions for our clients. You know, we're known in the market as a strong performance marketing agency.

[Mike Shields]

I was gonna say that. Is that your roots or is that, is that something you have roots?

[Sami Rubin]

We've been driving full funnel marketing strategy and activation for our clients for years. And we've been continuing to invest in that way through, you know, some hires we've made from a creative and brand perspective as we continue to evolve and keep pace with what our clients need. And I think, you know, I have a unique perspective being in the role that I'm in which is helping to drive our agency's approach to media strategy. I've planned and managed all the media and managed the people who have planned and managed all the media. So it's incredible how much things have evolved and it's been exciting to partner with our clients to help them keep pace and navigate these changes.

[Mike Shields]

You gotta pull all the different groups and ways of thinking together, which is cool, but probably not always easy.

[Sami Rubin]

No, but that's where the fun is, right? I feel like in the past 10 plus years of my career, I've been on the agency side and my role has evolved so much. And we're getting to a point where clients are looking for integrated marketing strategies and figuring out how all of their media and marketing investments can work to drive their goals. So we have a whole team of integrated media strats who are uniquely positioned and skilled at doing that.

[Mike Shields]

I want to come back to why that may be. Maybe if we just back up a little bit. We. When we talked about having you in the show, one of the things I thought that caught my attention. You kind of think maybe we. I don't want to put words in your mouth, like maybe we're making too big a deal with calling retail media this whole other thing. What's behind your thinking there? Is that because it's dated or things are changing quickly? What's.

[Sami Rubin]

What.

[Mike Shields]

What do you. What are you thinking there?

[Sami Rubin]

I mean, perhaps a little provocative, but I am an integrated media strat, after all, and I think the distinction of retail media as a completely separate category of investment is becoming less and less meaningful every day. And I say this because while retail media investment is growing and the projections are off the charts, the growth is really a function of how retailers are evolving their retail media mixes. And it's no longer just search ads, right? It's ctv, it's podcasts, it's influencer.

[Mike Shields]

So it's not just that moving the. What was shopper marketing over to another place anymore. Like, that's. That's over.

[Sami Rubin]

It's a component of it. But the definition has expanded so wide. So when all of these different tactics could be considered retail media, then retail media is just media. And all of these retailers have turned into media corporations in their own right by breaking outside of the confines of how we have historically defined retail media. And that's because they're pushing to access the entire marketing budget versus the component of budget that historically has gone towards those investments. And it's smart because they see how their brands are investing and winning at retail requires More than retail media. It's why, you know, CPG advertisers have invested in large scale brand activations for years because they know that it's going to translate to sales wherever the consumer is going to convert, which for CPG in large part is retail. And I oversee our commerce practice at the agency and I'm all for this expansion. The expanded media mix is working for our clients. I think where a lot of brands get hung up is that now that retail media is so expansive and all of the tactics that it covers, there are a lot of conversations happening around where does this live? Who owns this?

[Mike Shields]

That was going to be my next question. I'm sure it varies widely by industry and client, but you hear different things, that they're still very siloed that they're coming together. What does it look like for some of your clients and partners right now?

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah, I mean the lines are blurring. It's pretty clear where brands should be investing in sponsored ads like that Type of retail media is very straightforward. The retail media team or the retail e commerce team is really focused on how do we compete in these pay to play environments. But when it comes to those expanded tactics like CTV influencer social partnerships out of home, like all of that, you know, we're advising our clients to really zoom out and say what is the right integrated media mix for us in order to reach our consumer where they are spending their time? How can we drive towards our objectives through that media mix and then say where could retail media fit within the confines of that thinking versus starting retail media first? And I think, you know, every brand has a completely different org structure. We work with some clients who have a brand marketing team, a performance marketing team and a sales team team. And the sales team is managing retail media but seeking guidance from those other groups on how should we be investing in those retail media environments and then others brands that we work with. We're with a lot of clients that have their own D2C in addition to retail. So now we're talking like three to potential four different marketing teams that are all thinking about CTV and where does this live and who owns this. And it's starting to move towards more organizational conversations not just because of retail media, but because of, you know, brands wanting to bring more accountability to all of their investments in market. Oh, by the way, like retail media is now ctv. Why are we having search experts starting to plan influencer campaigns and podcast campaigns? Those are completely different skill sets too.

[Mike Shields]

Yeah, it does not sound simple and I guess you're not Going to, while, while you want to blur, the lines are blurring and these companies are trying to get better organized. You're not going to change these massive companies overnight. Right? So that's going to be part of the deal for a little while.

[Sami Rubin]

You've got to start with communication and transparency. Right? Like there are so many different planning processes happening when it comes to media. So how can brands at the very least start to unify those conversations so they can say, okay, CTV is a priority for the media mix, whether it be for the year or for the quarter. We know that we have opportunities to lean into these partners. We know that retail is a priority for us. Where does retail media CTV fit within the context of our larger CTV strategy versus, you know, CTV being planned in isolation in a variety of different places, which also presents challenges when it comes to measuring impact of media. Because if not everybody knows what's in market, then there's really no way to understand like how to validate what type of investments are working. Gaps exist. Right? We're building a ton of measurement strategies and solutions for clients so that we can unify all of this to understand all media impact on all commerce outcomes. So yeah, the legacy org structures. It's easier said than done when it's like, oh yeah, we should unify all this. But the conversation at least needs to start so that there's not duplication of resources. There's additional value to unlock by unifying those media negotiations.

[Mike Shields]

They're not getting each other's way either. I didn't even think about that. That's obvious. The idea of not everybody knows what's in market across these big companies. You'd think, oh, everyone's dialed into that, but not necessarily. What about this is a little bit on the same, along the same lines you're talking about, okay, we maybe we shouldn't keep retail media as its own category, but the Amazons and Walmarts and Target at least have a lot of similarities in what they offer and how they execute. Do you or your clients put social shopping in that group or is that a completely different set of tactics and just nature that it doesn't belong there?

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah, I mean social shopping has evolved as well. Right. We have, you know, brands that are activating on social as a part of their media mix. There are organic shopping integrations, you know, powered by TikTok shops and you know, other types of solutions that have hit the market across other social environments. I think it's a really good question. And if you haven't heard, social is a new Search. Yes. And it makes sense because that's how consumers, I mean even in our own behavior, how we're discovering new brands and products and it's not necessarily happening from an active perspective. There's a lot of passive discovery happening by way of all the video content that we're.

[Mike Shields]

You are not necessarily on a shopping mission, but it happens.

[Sami Rubin]

Exactly. And I think retailers are taking note. You know, social is a key destination for brand and product discovery. Retailers sell products and because of that we've seen a lot of partnerships. Best Buy, you know, announced one a few weeks ago with, you know, in their retail media network are going to be able to access meta inventory and use Best Buy's first party data for targeting and you know, have closed loop measurement and you know, retailers want to be where the dollars are going, the dollars are where the consumers are spending time. So I think it's back to our conversation about, you know, org structure and where does this live. It's the marketing leads getting together and saying, you know, let's look at our, our social strategy. Are there components of this where we could plug in retail media in a way that feels, you know, that, that it makes sense within the context of our strategy? And then also how does that impact, you know, our conversations with retailers? The, you know, jbps, we may have the retail media commitments that we're looking to, to deliver on. So it's, it's an evolving conversation and I think we'll continue to see more of this retail media social expansion, which also includes influencers. You know, retailers have their own influencer programs now in order to help brands engage with audiences in ways that they're accustomed to in those environments. So it's evolving, it's an evolving conversation and it makes the role of an integrated media lead more challenging because there are more considerations when it comes to building that mix. But it's, you know, exciting at the same time.

[Mike Shields]

You mentioned TikTok shop. We're talking in a moment where I've been asking people about this for months, but now we're really on the fringe of yet another maybe ban. So we don't know what's gonna happen. What has it been like for you working with brands, trying to figure out how to strategize, how to keep the take advantage of the shopping that's still happening, but also planning like what's going on?

[Sami Rubin]

Is it weird for our clients? We have a pretty diversified media mix. We do a ton in the way of YouTube shorts, you know, Instagram re also from a community perspective, we've leaned pretty heavily into Reddit as an organization because of the, again, different type of community engagement. But people are going there for the real, real, you know, the real takes. And you know, that comes from creators. It also comes from communities. So our clients are pretty well positioned to continue to find ways to engage those audiences outside of TikTok. Um, but every day, you know, is, is different and you know, we're keeping pace with the announcements that are happening and making sure that our clients are prepared to shift dollars in other places. You know, it's, it's not a one for one in terms of, you know, platform replacement, but there make assumptions that.

[Mike Shields]

Everybody'S going to do reels or something else. But you don't know, you don't know exactly what's going to happen. This is, you made me think of this. But is anybody. I mean, it's so early and murky. Are you hearing a lot of, A lot of we need a contingency plan if the, if tariffs really rock the economy or you can't get certain products, or does everybody have to kind of wait and see right now?

[Sami Rubin]

So it's funny, we've been having conversations about this internally. Our consumer strategy team has put together some really interesting insights around the impact of tariffs, economic uncertainty, you know, that, that looms. And from a brand perspective, our clients are asking us for a lot of this insight so that they can start scenario planning internally around maybe changes in their investment strategy, whether it be scaling back in marketing or other places within the organization. And also from a pricing perspective, what that might mean. Every vertical is totally different. Our consumer electronics clients, they're ones where, you know, a lot of them don't want to pass off, you know, the potential impact of tariffs to the consumer. So how can they find other ways to offset those costs as an organization? And as it come coming back to the retail conversation, you know, there's a lot of, of, you know, commitments made from a joint business planning perspective. So our clients are looking to have more flexibility there if, you know, they need to reset pricing, if they need to, you know, change perhaps the endeavors that they have from a retail media perspective. Because, number one, you know, there's questions around the incrementality of retail media, but once we get past, you know, a certain point of investment. But then there's also, you know, the need for flexibility to shift as the market shifts. So a lot of scenario planning is happening. I think it's too early to tell what exactly, you know, the implications will be, but they're definitely conversations we're having and are providing, you know, guidance in whatever direction our clients need.

[Mike Shields]

Weirdly, I wonder if the pandemic was almost like a dry run for these kinds of things where so many brands figured out we can, we have to be flexible and move things around, have plan A, B and C and they figured it out. So I'm assuming it's, you know, you know, less, less unknown, but similar thinking. I'm going to, I promise I'm going to change the subject, but one more retail media thing is I was at an event recently and this came up and the person who said this was maybe feeling a little bit envious of retail media data. But the thinking was, are we overusing retail media data? Can it be applied everywhere? Should we try and apply the same kind of attribution expectations to everything? Or is that crazy? What are you thinking about how that is being used in CTV and all these other avenues?

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah, I think it depends what type of data we're talking about. So like, if we're just talking about sales data, it's really powerful when it comes to integrating that into our media mix models so that we can really start to understand how different types of investments can drive different types of commerce outcomes. We have brands that, you know, might be investing in CTV and YouTube and one of those tactics, and this again, this is super generalizing, you know, this, but one of those tactics might over index in driving both. Therefore, as we zoom out and look at the media mix, well, wow, we should be finding efficiencies and incremental unlocks in the, you know, integration of media mixes to achieve a variety of different sales objectives. So from a sales data perspective, really useful. But when it comes to the audience data, there aren't really trends here. There's not a clear answer and I'd say like it's not even clear for endemic versus non endemic. Like endemic brands, the ones that sell through retail as a point of distribution, non endemic are really just here for the data and the inventory. So, you know, we can say that it's highly effective for brands to use Amazon data through Amazon's DSP to drive sales for products on Amazon. But in testing different types of retail data through the trade desk, for example, for some brands it works really well and for others it doesn't really perform any different than any other data segment, which. So the answer is not a great one. It depends. But that's why we test and continue to test for all of our clients. As you know, new retail data becomes unlocked within the different buying platforms that.

[Mike Shields]

We Work with something that keeps coming up. Probably for the past year, but especially lately, this idea of marketing mix modeling is back. Everyone, like even the big platforms are into it. You know, it seemed like I remember talking about these things like 20 years ago and they seemed almost like on the way out because they were, I don't know, seemed as old fashioned or not the way that, you know, precision media is going to be planned. Why is this happening? What is and how are your clients using them? How are you using them more than you may be used to?

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah. So within Polaris we have built advanced measurement inclusive of incrementality testing and also media mix models that we use to help, you know, find optimization opportunities for clients in terms of how we're investing. We'll also do a lot of scenario planning and I'd say like, you know, again, being on the media side, like I think around 2021 is really when I started seeing media mix models becoming more and more mainstream. They're definitely experiencing a renaissance and I think there's a few reasons. Number one, we've had this like looming deprecation of third party cookies which consumption, you know, like brands and advertisers really have had to say, okay, like you know, not that Google Analytics was ever, you know, the end all be all but I'm not going to be able to look at line item level attribution. So we need to zoom out. So that kind of forced a different way for brands to start looking at measurement. And then there's AI, which we haven't talked about yet. So we can hit that on our bingo card. But I think with advancements in AI there's a lot more analysis that can be done on lower spend thresholds. Which means that brands MMMs aren't just for the big spenders and they're not just for the large TV advertisers. We can get really granular for brands who are spending a couple million dollars a year across a variety of different media tactics. Use that to make optimization decisions. And the cost of these tools has reduced because of all the competition and.

[Mike Shields]

It used to be only thing that P and G could afford for like and they'd pay like three year contracts and they're crazy. And now that's changing.

[Sami Rubin]

Takes forever to set up. I remember getting them set up for clients in years past and I think too like all of the competition has really changed the advanced measurement ecosystem in that, you know, there are partners that were historically incrementality test partners. We're now having MTA and MMM solutions as part of their suite, we just saw Double Verify by Rockerbox, which shows, you know, I think what will be the first of many MMM acquisitions in that, you know, or really advanced measurement acquisitions. And you know, brands today, savvy advertisers, they need quite a tech stack in order to deliver best in class results. A lot of they have an incrementality test partner, they have an MTA partner, they have an MMM partner, they have a brand measurement partner, they have, you know, all of these different, you know, partners that come together through this umbrella of advanced measurement and that as a line item on a pnl is becoming a bigger and bigger.

[Mike Shields]

It's not just a little, it's not just a couple of cents here and there, like it's becoming substantial. All right, so then stupid question maybe, but you might think, you mentioned AI. We have to talk about it. Of course, the. If the world is going towards AI driven media buying optimization and you hear like Brian Lesser of Group M talk about how no, you're not going to have people touching media plans and Martin Sorrell says the same thing and that seems to be being led by the platforms like Meta and Google. Might you not need all those layers someday that you just talked about? Might you not need the MMMs or are they going to be even more valuable when, when that becomes more of the norm?

[Sami Rubin]

So there are media buying tools that are out there that can integrate, you know, bid management and not to get super tactical, but like, you know, a lot of those, you know, day to day functions in one platform and orient around driving, you know, a North Star objective, whether that be an mta, you know, or an MMM output. I would say that we're still a ways away, but we are seeing more and more of these advanced measurement partners expand their API connections and partnerships and communicate with each other because they know that that's the way that the world is going. I think from an agency perspective, we need to have subject matter experts who understand the realities of how consumers engage in these environments. Because even today you go into Meta and it says, hey, you should these 25 suggestions. And we know that those 25 suggestions might not all actually help us achieve our goals. All of those recommendations will get, will get smarter over time, but we still need humans.

[Mike Shields]

So it's not going to be just to let it take your word for it, let it run kind of thing.

[Sami Rubin]

At least for a long while, timing tbd. But I think this, you know, reinforces the need for creativity in how we're planning, creativity in, you know, what we Bring to the insights. You know, you can use AI to tell it to extract insights from a report, but without it knowing any historical context about a brand or the future direction or what's upcoming or, you know, just changes in consumer behavior or what have you, those insights are only going to be as impactful as the data and we can start to feed it more and more context so that those insights can be more and more robust. I think there's a delta right now between what people think AI can do from a media perspective and what it could actually do. And we're testing a lot because we want to help our clients be set up for success. And if we can do more, faster, more effectively, we'll be leaning into the areas where we can do that. But it's not a blanket across the board just yet. And I don't know if it will ever be that I will be, you know, really running the show. So.

[Mike Shields]

Right. Yeah, I think that we already, we automatically leap to this thing where it's already like it's over and you just like hand them your data and it's done and you don't do anything anymore. That, that's encouraging that strategists are still a big part of the equation, I guess. Last, last thing for me, Sami, is the. We met, you mentioned CTV several times. There has been a lot of excitement about bringing some performance elements more to that media. Make it, making it, you know, a little bit more trackable and a more strategic in terms of targeting. It seems like that is coming in fits and starts. What does it look like for you and your clients? Are you seeing like non traditional brands come into television a bit more like what's, what's going on there?

[Sami Rubin]

Yeah, I mean I've been buying CTV programmatically through, you know, high value inventory, not just, you know, cats TV on, you know, fill in the blank, you know, free streaming service since 2017, 2018.

[Mike Shields]

It's a long time in this universe. Yeah.

[Sami Rubin]

And at the agency I was at, we were, you know, getting, you know, inventory within the super bowl low scale. But we were doing it for brands that were looking to achieve, you know, not just brand awareness objectives. There's different approaches depending on the type of media that an agency is, you know, buying. We are performance. Everything that we do needs to drive a measurable impact. And I think through the partnerships that we've curated with all of the inventory partners and through the measurement solutions that we've been able to integrate into our approach to ctv, we've been able to not just tell a good story when it comes to, like, CTV is driving conversion lift or driving in store sales or foot traffic. But we're seeing that meaningfully impact the bottom line for the business. So I would argue that at least from where I sit, we're here.

[Mike Shields]

We're not waiting. It's happening.

[Sami Rubin]

You just got to look for it. But depending on, you know, if we're speaking to an agency that maybe does more traditional media buying or is, you know, comes from a different, you know, background, they might be catching up to pace to how, you know, digitally native agencies have been buying CTV and premium ctv. Yeah.

[Mike Shields]

For a. For a while. All right, well, fascinating stuff, Sami. Thanks so much for your time and let's. Let's chat again down the road.

[Sami Rubin]

Sounds great. Thanks for having me.

[Mike Shields]

Thanks again to my guest this week, Sami Ruben of W Promote and my partners at Elemental tv. If you like this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We've lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time for more what's next in media. Thanks for listening.