Podcast Summary: Next in Media
Episode: What's It Like to Ride the YouTube Wave for Nearly 20 Years
Host: Mike Shields
Guest: Michael Wayne (Co-founder & CEO, Kin)
Date: October 1, 2025
Overview
In this episode, Mike Shields welcomes Michael Wayne to discuss his nearly two-decade journey navigating YouTube and digital media. As co-founder and CEO of Kin, Michael reflects on the evolution of online video, the shifting business models, IP ownership, working with creators and celebrities, adjusting to new distribution platforms like FAST channels, and the impact of AI on media and entertainment. The conversation is an insightful tour through the changing landscape of content creation, distribution, and monetization, peppered with practical anecdotes and optimism for the future.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Origins in Digital Media & Early Vision (01:28–04:40)
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Identifying Disruption: Michael recounts founding his company (originally DECA, later Kin) in 2007, observing major changes in how talent connected with audiences and the decreasing cost of content creation:
- “We saw talent having direct relationships with their audience... The first incarnation of that we saw as blogging.” (01:39)
- “We saw the cost of cameras, new softwares for post production. We saw that trend very, very early and we thought...how are stories going to be told in this new world?” (02:18)
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Personal Journey in Media: Wayne details his career progression—from traditional media (magazines, MTV, Sony Pictures) to pioneering ventures in early video streaming:
- “I then joined an early stage startup in the late 90s in LA that was one of the first streamers of video content.” (02:36)
2. Early Experimentation & Embracing YouTube (04:40–08:54)
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Content Vertical Experiments: Kin’s focus on trial and error with various verticals and talent, including launching ‘Momversation’ with leading mom bloggers.
- “We had probably eight swings at the plate with different content verticals, different talent. Some things work, some things didn't work.” (04:51)
- “We created a video series with the leading mom bloggers...distribute that content back on their blogs.” (05:10)
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Serendipitous Entry to YouTube: Early partnership with top YouTube stars Smosh; formalizing the business and helping them scale.
- “I had never seen ... in every country in the world, their videos were number one. And they'd have millions of views and tens of thousands of comments. And in 2007, 2008, that was just mind blowing.” (06:13)
- “We formed a new company called Smosh LLC ... and we ended up managing that business for four years.” (07:12)
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Evolving Monetization Models:
- “The first thing we were trying to do is could we find ... audience or build audience. That was really the first goal ... And then ... monetize it through every possible monetization means...adsense and integrations and sponsorships.” (08:03)
3. Transition to the MCN Era & Developing Talent (08:54–15:37)
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YouTube’s Funded Channels Era and Birth of Kin Brand:
- “So we were the third funded channel. They gave us a bunch of money to create Kin. So up until that point, we were DECA, not a consumer facing brand.” (09:53)
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Approach to MCNs ("Quality Over Quantity"):
- “We really took an approach of kind of quality over quantity. So we tried to find who we thought were the best creators in the women's lifestyle space and then start to represent them.” (10:31)
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The “Agency Model” Trap & Refocusing on IP:
- “There was a lot of venture capital money flowing towards these business models. We... were very excited to ... work with these kind of little studios all over the world...But what that model ended up turning into was much more of an agency model.” (11:38)
- “We also started to see that there were lots of cracks in this business model. I think one of the saving graces was that we never, like, went crazy. Like, we never went all in and tried to sign 10,000 or 100,000 creators.” (12:44)
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Experimentation with Traditional Celebrities: Initiating collaborations with TV talent like Tia Mowry for YouTube channels:
- “We said, let's try it. Let's partner with Tia...We shot a bunch of videos with her...we're going to see if she can be a YouTuber. So we created Tia Mowry's Quick Fix and we posted the first episode and it got like half a million views...something is here.” (14:00–15:09)
- “We also created a different model with her, like, where we were really truly partners in this...So it wasn't like a traditional talent deal and continues not to be.” (15:37)
4. Intersecting with Television & Streaming (16:19–18:39)
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Evolving Attitudes Toward TV—Pandemic-Induced Opportunity:
- “As the pandemic started...A lot of traditional media companies had a shortage of programming to put on their cable networks and their streaming platforms. And here we had hundreds of half hours...So we got very lucky and we ended up licensing...three to four hundred half hours of our YouTube content.” (16:59–18:22)
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Content Flexibility for TV:
- “Your stuff lent itself to television probably better than...typical vlogger because it was like lifestyle stuff that they needed.” (18:22)
- “It felt very much like it could be seen on television or a streaming platform and ... we could re edit it to make it a little bit more tv.” (18:39)
5. FAST Channel Boom and Retrenchment (19:12–23:13)
- Initial Success With FAST, but Resource Demands & Strategic Shift:
- “We had enough of our owned and operated library to stand up a FAST channel on our own...While it was fun...what we found was...it's not insignificant the amount of people and resources...you need to dedicate to make a FAST channel successful.” (20:42–21:23)
- “So we decided...we probably can make more money with less headache by just licensing our programming to other people. And that's what we ended up doing. So after two years, we actually shuttered the FAST channel.” (22:40–23:13)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On adapting through change:
"You kind of have to take swings and take risks and pivot sort of towards the later stages...Let's take a couple swings at the plate of getting back to IP."
— Michael Wayne (13:20)
On leveraging celebrity audiences:
"People would actually go to YouTube to follow it. We also created a different model with her...She put in her kind of sweat equity and her promotion. We paid for everything and we split everything."
— Michael Wayne (15:37)
On the challenge of FAST channels:
"It's not insignificant the amount of people and resources...you need to dedicate to make a FAST channel successful and monetize profit."
— Michael Wayne (21:23)
On the current state of YouTube and creator media:
"The last five years has just been really disorienting in media in general...The behavior of short form video, the difficulty in building audiences through long form..."
— Michael Wayne (23:48)
On shifting business focus:
"For us, YouTube is not the anchor anymore. It's a piece of it. But as we're starting IP, we're constantly looking at new ways of doing that."
— Michael Wayne (27:45)
On AI's impact and his new focus:
"This is starting to feel a little bit like the late 90s for me when I joined Launch and Web 1.0...just a lot of energy."
— Michael Wayne (29:36)
On optimism amid disruption:
"I'm always an optimist. I kind of feel like everyone's always afraid that a new technology is going to kill everyone...But guess what? Every town in America got paved roads. And that created tons of jobs."
— Michael Wayne (36:51–37:29)
On the enduring value of storytelling:
"I am long on storytelling that connects people. I think we are at a human level. We want to know why we're here, and we want people to tell stories that help us make some sense of that and connect us as humans."
— Michael Wayne (38:13–38:26)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:28–04:40 — Wayne’s background and the disruptive signs of early digital media
- 04:40–08:54 — Early company pivots, Momversation, and the Smosh partnership
- 08:54–15:37 — The MCN era, focusing on quality, and transitioning to working with celebrities on YouTube
- 16:19–18:39 — Licensing to TV and streaming during the pandemic, surprising success
- 19:12–23:13 — FAST channel experiment: resources, profitability, and strategic choice to license
- 23:48–27:45 — Shifting monetization models, the effect of short-form, diversification across platforms
- 28:17–32:47 — Wayne’s personal journey into AI, involvement with Papercup and leadership with AI LA
- 33:37–38:46 — AI disruption, industry fears, optimism about new jobs and the enduring necessity of storytelling
Conclusion & Takeaways
Michael Wayne provides a candid, comprehensive look at surviving and thriving through nearly every major development in digital video, from early YouTube and MCNs to the current AI tidal wave. His narrative is one of continual learning and pivoting, highlighted by:
- A keen focus on IP ownership and collaboration,
- An ability to embrace new platforms and experiment (even with traditional TV),
- Realistic, optimistic views on the disruptions caused by technology—especially AI,
- An enduring belief that innovative storytelling, human connection, and adaptability are essential for future success.
Ultimately, despite industry challenges, Wayne expresses hope and excitement for the new creative possibilities technology affords, concluding on an inspiring note about the persistent power of storytelling.