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Why Live Sports and - Bravo (?) Are Dominating the Upfronts
00:19:30
NBCUniversal is transforming the fragmented television market by leveraging the year-round community power of reality TV, programmatic precision in live sports, and real-time AI-driven ad insertion to deliver rapid, full-funnel performance metrics for brands.
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- [00:00]
Allison Levin
In the same way we talked about this for Unscripted. The power of Bravo is that there's multiple Bravo shows. It's not like Stranger Things. You're in and then out like Bravo is all year long. So you can actually create a real community and continue your message. The same exists now for us with sports because every Sunday and as an advertiser, you can have a continued message throughout the year around Sunday sports. And that ability to not just pop in and pop out, but to tell a story throughout the year and is incredibly valuable, especially in a fragmented marketplace like we have right now.
- [00:32]
Mike Shields
We all know TV has become fragmented and we all know the feeling of spending more time deciding what to watch than actually watching or worse, knowing exactly what you want to watch and still not being able to find it. Vizio OS is built to solve this problem. Viewers spend 30 plus minutes a day on Vizio's home screen searching, discovering and getting inspiration to guide their entertainment and shopping journey. For advertisers, whether you're promoting a new show, restaurant or car or product, this is the best and only place to capture attention before they dive into an ad free environment. And analysts project Vizio will become the number one TV operating system by 2027, positioning it as the front door of TV. If you want to connect with consumers at the moment of discovery and let Vizio turn attention into action, reach out to Vizio. Adsizio.com this week on Nexting Media as part of my ongoing Nexting TV series with my partners at Vizio, I talked with Allison Levin, president of advertising and partnerships at NBCUniversal. Allison and I talked about maybe the hottest property in media, an old school cable network. Yes, Bravo is having a moment right now. And Alison, I talked about the crazy fan interest and old fashioned live tune in for shows like the Traders and Summer House and how that's playing out in the ad market. Allison and I also discussed the challenge of shoehorning TV advertising to last click performance models. Why the company feels confident about this up for season despite some weirdness for consumers. Let's get started. Hi everybody. Welcome to NEXT to Media. I'm Mike Shields. My guest this week is Allison Levin. She's the president of advertising and partnerships at NBCUniversal. Hey Alison, thanks for being here.
- [01:52]
Allison Levin
Hey Mike, it's great to be here. I'm excited to be back on the pod.
- [01:55]
Mike Shields
Yeah, you were a returning guest. Excited to talk to you in the middle of upfront mania. I want to ask you because there's so much talk about the conventional wisdom Last couple years has been what really matters in live television these days or sports and events. But are we starting to get to a place where we have to throw reality into that mix? Because you've got things like the Traders and Summerhouse and Bravo Khan that are becoming almost as big of cultural moments as other stuff out there. Where what's making that so valuable to brands right now?
- [02:23]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I mean, I will say, listen, we're so fortunate at NBCU to have such an incredible roster of unscripted television. Like, as we sit here, I know this is probably going to come out a couple days later, but we are, you know, post the eve of the new season of Love island and Summer House reunion episode two. So, like the mecca of unscripted happened last night. And so one of the things that makes, you know, sports and moments like these so valuable, of course, is just the large reach it has and the audience that it brings and for advertisers to be able to reach that audience. But what makes these unscripted moments even more powerful is what happens after those episodes air. Like, there's such a community for Love island, for Bravo content. And what makes it different is that it's all year long for Love Island. It's literally every single day besides Wednesdays. And that Community creates this culture and conversation that actually a brand can participate in in a way that I don't really know if there's another example that exists at that scale. So it just makes it so incredibly interesting from an advertising perspective just to tap into that audience and be a part of the conversation directly.
- [03:35]
Mike Shields
I want to ask you about that, but do you have a theory on why now? Because we've had reality shows for, you know, we have Housewives for many years. It just seems to be all popping and we were all supposed to be in our content bubbles and not being watching the same stuff. And there seems to be a need for this almost in the culture.
- [03:51]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I mean, listen, like, I think some of this is because of how personalized so much else of what we watch and what people do on their phones has become that we crave these moments of like community and talking about something. Like, I saw a post actually yesterday that was getting ready for Love island and it was like the best part about Love island is talking to other people about Love Island. Like, it's ridiculous and silly and funny and it's every day and you get to talk to other people about what's happening and the contestants and. And so I think just people crave connection. And we're, we're seeing it with live sports. Like, live sports is bigger than ever and it keeps growing and tapping into new audiences. And then also some of this too, is probably the clips that come out of it, right? And the viral nature of those clips that bring more people in. And that's true for reality, but it's also true for sports. And like, you add to that, like Bravo, there are hundreds of people that make money and have a career just talking about Bravo shows, you know, podcasts and creating, you know, things for people to buy on Etsy that are related to this. So, like, there's a whole, whole community that exists that thrives, that loves it and, and it's fun.
- [05:00]
Mike Shields
Yeah. I think I may have told you this. I was at a beat retreat when one of the finales was coming out of the Traders and people were like, yelling at each other, like, do not tell me anything. I'm not watching this, like, at home. Like, it's really, it's. It's crazy how it's, it's just become this, this thing that people crave to kind of share together. I want to. How do you. So how do you sell. Is this becoming a thing where you. You're selling the concurrent audience, Allah sports and the big reach moments, but also selling brands to get into all the different parts of it that, the long life of these shows. What does that look like in the market?
- [05:31]
Allison Levin
There's. There's both. That happens, right? And it's, it's actually an incredible opportunity for large advertisers and also smaller advertisers. So at its core, when we start you large integrations, like, let's use Love island, like, l' Oreal has been a partner for us for many seasons. They are coming back. Maybelline Cerave. They, you know, are in the villa. They're part of contests. Like, they are deeply integrated. We create custom content. And of course, like, at that level, that's where it pops. Like, just yesterday I was doing a fireside chat. We've, you know, a bunch of interns who are joining and interns across the industry. And I asked them, like, you know, again, these are all college age, you know, students who watches Love island, and literally more than half raised their hand and someone shouted out, maybelline. Right? Like, if you want to break through in that way with that audience, these moments matter. And you get to connect to that audience in a different way that really breaks through. But then on the other end, we had 1500 advertisers that actually participated in Love island last season. And that's because of automation and programmatic and our ability to help clients and brands not just with the big moments, but just to get, get in and reach that audience in a way that I don't think existed at scale five or ten years ago.
- [06:43]
Mike Shields
Right. Yeah. Those reality shows like, like most of big television was limited to the, the big spending top several hundred brands. That's, that's pretty wild to see. On that note, sort of it's a little stepping back a little bit. But you, you, I've seen you talk about this at various CES and other events, how we're looking at TV as a performance vehicle right now where there's so much pressure on, out on the business to deliver outcomes. But TV by nature has different windows and you've got things like integrations and cross and branded content that don't necessarily deliver immediate, you know, last click kind of attribution. Like what do you, how are you, can you talk about how you're thinking about that right now?
- [07:17]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I think the, the piece that has been missing in the TV market has been the ability to get that data as quickly as possible and, and optimize off of it like you see in some, you know, more of your performance based channels which, you know, I've said this to you before, Mike drives me nuts. That lower funnel has taken the performance word on when we all know that upper funnel performs as well. And so for us we've been so, so focused on getting back this data for our clients, for our agency partners as quickly as possible so they can understand the impact that video has on their full plan. And we believe deeply in the better together narrative. And we've seen that play out in the results that you don't just need your lower funnel, you need your upper funnel for demand creation.
- [08:05]
Mike Shields
To get performance is not one thing.
- [08:08]
Allison Levin
Exactly, exactly. They work very well together and the mix of how much you should spend on each depends on where you are in your journey or what is it that you're trying to prove. But I think the missing piece has been getting that data feedback loop and not relying on mmm, which could take six months or a year to understand, to get smarter and to make those decisions. And so we've been investing in our own tech and tools called Performance Insight Insights Hub. But we're also working with partners in the way they want to see it so we can get that data back and they can make decisions and see the power as quickly as possible. And I also think Agentic is going to help as well. Like I think that'll Speed back the data feedback loop so people can get rapid. Mmm. And to make those decisions across what's the right allocation between sort of your more upper funnel and your lower funnel tactics.
- [08:54]
Mike Shields
So it's interesting you brought up agentic. I wondered about that. In television it feels like the, you know, know the. It's a medium where you want to. Brands and networks want to have control and it's very important to have transparency and people. Agentic feels like a leap. You, you think it's going to, it's going to reap benefits in the TV ad business.
- [09:12]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I mean listen, like even dynamic creative, like it could be a reality now. Like we announced this at, at upfront but we have technology that is scanning everything that happens on Peacock, whether it is VOD or live coming in Q4 and you can place your. You're commercial and you're creative right after something happens. So the example that we had on the upfront stage was a fumble in football and the commercial after was bounty and clean up that fumble. Right. So it's like it is another level of the ability to have dynamic creative. We can get smarter about what's working. There's endless optimization capabilities now with AI. So and that's just one use case. There are multiple. When you think about, you know, looking at targeting options and optimization options. But I think on the creative point, like you know, just tapping into the reality space, you can have different messaging for different people depending on what they're watching in real time. Like that, that's super powerful.
- [10:07]
Mike Shields
Right. So that's already here. Maybe the agents aren't going on and buying all your media for the. With no people involved. But, but this kind of stuff is already happening.
- [10:13]
Allison Levin
Yeah, no, listen, I think these big moments, what we're seeing sort of is that these big IP based moments are scarce and when you want to go deep and this has been the case for a little bit with sports, but it's even getting more so, you know, just if you want that real, real integration or you want your Love island integration or Summer House reunion or like Uber Eats is in Summer House. And I think a lot of viewers probably see it when they get delivery like what a perfect fit that was on purpose. That was part of a larger, you know, so those types of things, you have to be intentional. You have to think ahead of time, you block others out of it. But then I also think there's just a huge area of opportunity that we continue to see around always on and audiences. And I think automation agentic is just going to make that even more power over the next few years.
- [11:00]
Mike Shields
Okay, you mentioned sports. I want to ask you about. You guys came back to the NBA. NBA this year seems to seem terrific season go Nicks, by the way. But there's. There's a lot that there was a lot more inventory. And it's not always easy for the fans to know when the games are. How do you think about maybe like sports viewership and your. And the advertising opportunity when you're. When you're talking about linear and streaming. Streaming and all these different options for fans.
- [11:20]
Allison Levin
Evan, listen, we've been so fortunate to have the NBA back in our portfolio. And it was just an incredible season that we saw 100% increase on viewership versus the prior season on similar games, right? So I think that just goes to show the power of our strategy around the NBA, which is a combination of broadcast and streaming. Because, you know, listen, streaming is growing. It's a huge priority for us. It's a huge priority for the industry. It's incredibly powerful. But still, 70% of all impressions are happening in linear, right? So there, it's really important to have that dual strategy. And I think we saw tremendous success from having that with the NBA. I will say, like, to your point around fragmentation, like it is true, there is, you know, rights are dispersed. Right. And is certainly a dynamic that happens. We've been really intentional with our Sunday programming. So of course, we have Sunday Night Football now. We have Sunday nights with MBA and then also with mlb. And so for us, it's a way. It's twofold. One, it allows our consumers to know that every Sunday night with an nbcu
- [12:22]
Mike Shields
that there's an expectation you will be able to find some sports on NBC that night.
- [12:25]
Allison Levin
100%. 100%. Right. And that's so powerful because you don't have to be thinking, do I got to go into Amazon? Do I have to go into Netflix? Right? Like, they know that we own Sunday Night sports. And then from a marketer's perspective, like in the same way we talked about this for Unscripted, the power of Bravo is that there's multiple Bravo shows. It's not like Stranger Things. You're in and then out, like Bravo is all year long, so you can actually create a real community and continue your message. The same exists now for us with sports because every Sunday and as an advertiser, you can have a continued message throughout the year around Sunday sports. And. And that ability to not just pop in and pop out, but to tell a story throughout the year is incredibly valuable, especially in a fragmented marketplace like we have right now.
- [13:09]
Mike Shields
And you guys do something different with sports where you, not everybody runs the same ad for strictly streaming audience and linear. Can you, can you explain your, your product there and why that's. Why do you think that's an important strategy?
- [13:19]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I mean we've been, and I don't, you know, I've been in nbcu, I'm coming on three years now, so I can say this, like I don't think that NBCU has gotten the credit that it should have just for how forward thinking they were. From the day they launched Sports on Peacock. We have had dynamic ad insertion from the beginning. So targeting in sports from the beginning.
- [13:37]
Mike Shields
Right. The instinct could be just like, be careful with sports. Don't mess around too much.
- [13:41]
Allison Levin
Yeah. Just take the live linear feed and put it on. And by the way, a lot of people do that. I mean the industry is changing and catching up now, but for years we were the only one. And we also have programmatic access for it as well. And so it allows you to not only be in these massive moments, but then to find the more precise audience that you want to reach. Like is incredibly powerful, especially when you have as many sports throughout the year as we have. And then the programmatic access as well is a huge value add. Like thinking about just Milan and we launched it first with Paris and then we did it again in Milan. And of course, you know, the large advertisers and, and the ones that are buying sponsorships make up the larger portion of revenue.
- [14:23]
Mike Shields
Sure.
- [14:23]
Allison Levin
But we saw hundreds of new advertisers. We had a women's snowboarding, you know, jacket and pant company that never would have been able to participate in Milan, that was able to actually get in there and surround winter sports. Like winter.
- [14:37]
Mike Shields
That's cool.
- [14:37]
Allison Levin
Yeah. With universal ads. They ran. They ran. So again, like it has been very intentional from our point to, to one make sure that advertisers get as much value out of sports as they possibly can and to create the next cohort of advertisers who are going to lean into sports because they start in a, you know, a very automated fashion and then they continue to grow and evolve.
- [14:59]
Mike Shields
Right. I want to ask you, we mentioned right in the middle of the up front mania, you're kind enough to give us some time here, I would imagine. It's, it's, it seems like a strong ad economy overall, you know, with some exceptions. But it's, it's sort of a weird moment. We getting a read on the US Economy and consumer attitudes is kind of hard. They're spending but they're nervous. Like what are you seeing in the market right now? Like what's, what's kind of, what's kind of feel.
- [15:22]
Allison Levin
Yeah, I mean I would say, I'd say it's a little split in that the things that are scarce and have IP attached to them like we've been talking about. So your live sports, your Bravo moments, like, and even there is more scarcity and like cable for instance. Right. You know, are really in demand. Like people want to make sure that they get those moments. NBC 100 Special, like all of these big moments. They want to make sure they lock in and then around audience. It's the idea of having always on in quarter buying audience across the portfolio, understanding the ability to optimize and the performance of it. And I think both those things are, are totally okay. Right. Like, I think sometimes people get hung up on like how much of it's
- [16:04]
Mike Shields
reserved upfront or like parallel marketplaces. And that's, that's great.
- [16:08]
Allison Levin
We've set up as an industry to be able to capitalize on it and from our perspective, like we're so confident in the assets that we have and sort of the team and how we've set everybody up to, to be able to have an always on marketplace, which we've had for a long time. So it's, you know, I think that's what we're sort of seeing coming to life. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is caution in some areas for sure, but that's where the always on Marketplace really, really helps. And, and to your point, when you think about like signal versus noise, like the signals of what we see currently from the advertising community is we are seeing, you know, a strong scatter market record low options and a lot of net new. We had 700 new clients just this year.
- [16:50]
Mike Shields
Yeah. So that's, that's the dream that where everyone's kind of chasing in television, I guess just bring it home out. Alison, from where we started. Tell people about Bravo Con and does that. Is that almost becoming another thing that brands are trying to lock in up front?
- [17:02]
Allison Levin
Oh, I mean you're speaking to my heart. I get to end on BravoCon as a Bravo Leopardy. It's my favorite moment of the year. I mean it really is a phenomenon. It is a weekend in Las Vegas. Tens of thousands of huge, huge Bravo fans, of which I am one. And then you all the Bravo liberties in one place. There are panels, they are meet and greets. And really like the entire, the entire experience. Not only is it the panels, but it's the activations that brands bring in. So you have Wayfair, that has an entire, you know, the different housewives houses and you can experience it and see them there. It's amazing. It's amazing. And then you have, you know, doing your hair with Unilever and there's Lexus, had a glam car where you can get glam and pictures. And so we had one of our clients walked in and literally was like, oh, my God, I get this. It's a content factory. And that's exactly what it is. Like for the moment, you super serve the fans that are there, but it's also streams live on Peacock also. All the brands take all of this content and you are immediately in with that community of fans. Like T Mobile is commercial right now with Lindsey from Summer House, who's obviously, Summer House is having such, such, such a moment. So it was a brilliant idea with them to do that. And in the commercial, she talks about like, T Mobile is better than a boyfriend. It doesn't ask me to make sandwiches now for you, Mike, if you're not a Bravo fan, making sandwiches in Lindsay, does that mean anything to you?
- [18:25]
Mike Shields
No, I think sandwiches, I would love a sandwich. But no, no one's. No one, no one cares to make one for you.
- [18:29]
Allison Levin
But like, for those that have experienced it with Lindsay and watched her, you are immediately in and you're part of the cultural conversation in a way that is not really accessible, I think, in other instances like that. So BravoCon is sort of our super bowl of content creation, super serving fans and brands being able to participate. And we saw a record number of brands that were in it last year. And we have a fan fest this year in Charleston that's our bridge as well to get back to Bravo pod next year. So, I mean, for everything going on and how hot Bravo has continued to be, I think there's going to be a real, a continued, real interest in locking that in.
- [19:09]
Mike Shields
Well, I can't wait for one. Alison, thanks so much for an awesome conversation. It's a busy time of year, so thanks for squeezing us in and we'll do this again.
- [19:15]
Allison Levin
Awesome. Great chatting with you, Mike.
- [19:17]
Mike Shields
Thank you. A big thanks to my guest this week, NBCU's Alison Levin and my partners at Vizio. If you liked this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time. For more on what's next in media. Thanks for listening.