Podcast Summary: Next in Media – "Why did we anoint Google and Apple as privacy czars?"

Release Date: May 6, 2025
Host: Mike Shields
Guests: Tim Vanderhoek (CEO) and Chris Vanderhoek (COO) of Viant Technologies

Introduction

In this episode of Next in Media, host Mike Shields engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Tim and Chris Vanderhoek, the co-founders of Viant Technologies. The discussion delves into the intricate dynamics of the ad tech industry, focusing on the roles of tech giants like Google and Apple, regulatory challenges, and the transformative impact of AI on media buying.

The Monopolistic Behavior of Google and Apple

The conversation opens with a critical examination of Google's and Apple's dominance in the ad tech space. Tim and Chris express their concerns over these companies acting as de facto privacy czars, effectively controlling significant aspects of the advertising ecosystem.

Tim Vanderhoek (02:18):
"If you read the evidence that came out on that, it was pretty damning."

The Vanderhoek brothers highlight how Google's monopolistic practices have led to advertiser lock-in, limiting choices and stifling competition within the industry.

Potential Breakup of Google and Its Impact

The discussion moves to the potential breakup of Google, a topic that has been a focal point in regulatory territories. Chris Vanderhoek emphasizes the positive implications this could have for the open web and independent ad tech companies.

Chris Vanderhoek (02:57):
"If they break that YouTube, I guess..."

Tim elaborates on the current trends, noting a decline in Google's ad revenues over the past two years, suggesting a shift away from Google’s ad products irrespective of ongoing legal battles.

Tim Vanderhoek (03:09):
"We've already seen a lot of customers, you know, spend leaving DV360 even though DV360 wasn't part of that."

They predict that a formal breakup would dismantle existing lock-ins, paving the way for greater competition and innovation in the ad tech sector.

Self-Regulation vs. Government Regulation in Ad Tech

The episode critically assesses the efficacy of self-regulation within the ad tech industry. The Vanderhoeks argue that while the industry has made strides in compliance with regulations like CCPA and CPRA, the monopolistic behaviors of giants like Google and Apple undermine these efforts.

Tim Vanderhoek (04:07):
"The problem is, is that incentives, let's say you do build a big powerful company, that's really important. Well, the incentives are such in capitalism that you have to keep going. There's no end state, you must keep growing."

They advocate for more proactive government intervention to address these systemic issues, rather than relying solely on industry self-regulation.

Mike Shields (05:19):
"But you now in a place where does the government just feel too, too many steps slow... do we need the government to be more future looking on these kind of things?"

Viant's Position and Rivalry with The Trade Desk

Viant Technologies' stance against major players like The Trade Desk is a significant point of discussion. The Vanderhoeks critique The Trade Desk’s strategies, particularly around UID2, arguing that such practices perpetuate lock-in and reduce market choice.

Chris Vanderhoek (09:23):
"The lock in that Google created partially the lock in that the trade desk is trying to create around UID 2 and things of that nature. That's where we, we want those things to go away."

They advocate for a fair marketplace where the best products can compete without being overshadowed by dominant players.

Shifting from Last-Touch to Household-Based Attribution

A pivotal segment of the conversation centers on the industry's reliance on last-touch attribution and its limitations. Tim and Chris introduce Viant’s Household ID as a superior alternative that links ad exposures to actual sales without invasive tracking.

Tim Vanderhoek (14:45):
"All these purchases were going to happen anyway. And this is all waste, all waste."

By focusing on household-based identification, Viant aims to provide more accurate and meaningful attribution, ultimately driving genuine value for advertisers.

Chris Vanderhoek (16:16):
"Nothing builds demand better than connected TV... that's the value that Viant Household ID does."

The Role of AI in Ad Tech and Viant’s Innovations

AI emerges as a transformative force in the conversation, with Viant leveraging it to automate and optimize media buying processes. The Vanderhoeks discuss their AI-driven products, such as AI bidding and AI planning, which streamline campaign management and enhance performance.

Tim Vanderhoek (26:05):
"AI does a really good job of that in bidding."

Chris Vanderhoek (27:43):
"Our North Star vision is that everything is handled with a launch from a human to actually get a campaign live to remove the complexity and add a whole bunch of simplicity."

They emphasize the need for autonomous advertising, where AI manages campaigns with minimal human intervention, reducing complexity and increasing efficiency.

Competition with Amazon and Other Tech Giants

The discussion extends to Amazon's role in the ad tech landscape, highlighting concerns that Amazon might follow in Google and Apple's monopolistic footsteps. The Vanderhoeks note that Amazon's advertising division is staffed by former Google professionals, suggesting similar strategic approaches.

Chris Vanderhoek (20:47):
"Look at who's running the advertising business at Amazon. It's the former Google team."

They express apprehension that without regulatory checks, Amazon could consolidate its power, further diminishing competition and innovation in the industry.

The Future of Autonomous Advertising and AI on the Application Layer

Looking ahead, the Vanderhoeks envision a future where autonomous advertising, powered by AI at the application layer, democratizes the ad tech space. They argue that true competition will arise not from foundational models controlled by a few giants but from innovative applications built on diverse AI platforms.

Chris Vanderhoek (30:46):
"Where is the competition happening right now? It's happening at the application layer, not at the creating another LLM or found on top of a foundational model."

This approach ensures that domain expertise and innovative applications drive the industry forward, rather than the monopolistic control of foundational AI technologies.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a vivid portrayal of the current ad tech landscape, emphasizing the need for regulatory reforms to foster competition and innovation. Tim and Chris Vanderhoek reaffirm Viant Technologies' commitment to leveraging AI for creating a more transparent, efficient, and fair advertising ecosystem.

Tim Vanderhoek (23:38):
"America is going to win. Entrepreneurs are going to win. It lights up the capital markets again."

Mike Shields wraps up by acknowledging the depth of the conversation and expressing enthusiasm for future discussions, highlighting the transformative potential of the insights shared by the Vanderhoek brothers.

Key Takeaways

• Monopolistic Practices: Google and Apple’s dominance poses significant challenges to competition and self-regulation in ad tech.

• Regulatory Intervention: There is a pressing need for proactive government measures to dismantle monopolistic structures and encourage a fair marketplace.

• Innovative Attribution Models: Transitioning from last-touch to household-based attribution can enhance the accuracy and effectiveness of advertising campaigns.

• AI-Driven Solutions: Autonomous advertising, powered by AI, can simplify campaign management, reduce errors, and drive better performance.

• Future Competition: True innovation and competition in ad tech will emerge from the application layer, leveraging diverse AI platforms rather than being confined to foundational models controlled by a few giants.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Vanderhoek (07:43):
  "What you're seeing is people moving out of that and moving into CTV and streaming audio."

• Chris Vanderhoek (16:16):
  "Nothing builds demand better than connected TV."

• Tim Vanderhoek (28:10):
  "It is the main goal."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the Next in Media episode, providing valuable perspectives on the evolving landscape of media, marketing, and advertising in the face of technological advancements and regulatory challenges.