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- [00:00]
Chris
I read an article and it said, yeah, in the next three or four years we'll see a billion dollar business ran by one person.
- [00:06]
Will
Yeah. So that means by 10 years there's going to be a company that's started by an AI and we'll have humans working for it for like delivering stuff or maybe not.
- [00:19]
Chris
So who will own the AI because.
- [00:20]
Will
There'S no governance and regulations. I don't know the answer to that right now.
- [00:24]
Chris
There are a lot of people that call you lyrical genius. You've been involved in a lot of lyrical genius, so you wouldn't consider yourself a lyrical genius.
- [00:32]
Will
No.
- [00:40]
Chris
What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros. Today we are taking to the next level with my boy Will. I am. Welcome to the show, my dude.
- [00:50]
Will
Yeah, we next level pros.
- [00:51]
Chris
Let's go, Will. Chris. Dude, excited to have you on the show. We've been trying to get this thing done for like a year.
- [01:01]
Will
Yeah, I know. So happy that we did it the day before school is over. Yeah, dude, it's been last minute.
- [01:09]
Chris
So we've, we've known each other for a couple years now, attending hbs, the OPM program. Shout out Harvard and dude, so you've got an incredible story. I've always been really just impressed with your level of intelligence.
- [01:27]
Will
Next level intelligence, let's go.
- [01:30]
Chris
When it comes to, when it comes to tech, you've been involved in a bunch of stuff. So like how did you get into that? Obviously music is your background but like what, what got you, what got you involved in like the tech and all the stuff along the way.
- [01:49]
Will
So I got involved in tech because a piece of tech is my instrument. So I play the computer. I don't play the keyboard enough to say I'm a pianist. I don't play the drums enough to say that you'll check me out hitting these drums. I play decent for me to really be, you know, what will be considered a pro because I edit the shit out of it on my real instrument, which is the computer.
- [02:23]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [02:24]
Will
And because of my love for compute and how it amplifies my creativity, I wanted to know the folks that are responsible for compute. Programmers, electrical engineers, developers and you know, like you put a band together to create music, you put a team together to create technology. So when I see things like especially this microphone, I'm like, yo, just the people look at it and they'll probably see that. Probably look at it and think it's insignificant. But look at this mic and then look at this micro. Look how this is designed look at how this is designed. Look at the quality of this mic versus the quality of this mic. You really can't tell the difference. But look at the size of this, how much innovation and engineering went in to make this product. And I would always marvel off of, like, who are the brains behind this? You know, who made this board? Somebody designed this board. You know, somebody designed the silicone chip and the computer.
- [03:40]
Chris
So who in your life influenced you to, like, think that way? Right? Like, what are. Because not everyone thinks that way. Not everyone looks at a mic and is like, man, this is amazing. You try getting in the mind or whatnot. Does that come natural to you, or do you feel like you've had different influences that have gotten you to that level of thinking?
- [04:01]
Will
I like taking things apart and try to put it back together, you know, Like, I used to take my radio apart primarily because, you know, we were poor growing up, so shit was always broken.
- [04:13]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [04:13]
Will
So. So you had to, like, you know, make sense of scraps. And I'm just curious. I'm a. A curious mind that wants to know about.
- [04:31]
Chris
Would you say that's more nurture in nature?
- [04:33]
Will
I think you nurture that. You can nurture that.
- [04:35]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [04:36]
Chris
So who in your life has nurtured that for you to be curious?
- [04:41]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [04:45]
Will
My mom, my uncle. Rest in peace. My uncle Faye. He would say, you are the words, your definitions. If somebody asks you what you're doing, you should be able to articulate what you're doing, even if you're sitting there just breathing. Never say, I'm doing nothing, because you're never not doing nothing. Always arm yourself with the ability to express and explain what you're thinking, how you're feeling. You are your words. I remember he always be like that. Like, always be able to paint a picture.
- [05:27]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [05:28]
Will
With exactly how you're feeling and push us to do. To do that. Like, we were getting debates.
- [05:39]
Chris
This is your uncle.
- [05:40]
Will
My uncle. On what you said makes no sense. What do you mean? Listen to what you just said. He would tell me and explain it better. And so that kind of, like introspect analyzing, you know, having an emotion, being able to hold it and articulate it, just wrapped my mind around doing that, around everything. You know, why I like, why I like something, you know, like, that's cool. Why is it cool? You know? Oh, that's cute. Why is it cute? Explaining to explain more.
- [06:26]
Chris
Digging. Digging deeper.
- [06:27]
Will
Yeah, yeah. Explain yourself more. Or you might understand what you just said, but you're assuming everybody else understands what you said. So try to Translate, simplify, summarize, right? You know, do that for easy things. Do it for complex things. And so that type of, like, creative thinking, critical thinking came from my mom and my uncle.
- [06:56]
Chris
That's awesome.
- [06:57]
Unknown
Yeah, I know.
- [06:58]
Chris
There's. There are a lot of people that call you lyrical genius. You've been involved in a lot of lyrical genius.
- [07:06]
Will
Black thought from the roots. That dude's a lyrical genius.
- [07:10]
Chris
So you wouldn't consider yourself a lyrical genius?
- [07:14]
Will
No.
- [07:15]
Chris
What. What would you say if on your grave there was written. The grave? Yeah, we're talking. We're talking on the grave. The five things that will I am best well known for.
- [07:32]
Will
Gotta knock on some wood, bro.
- [07:34]
Chris
We gotta knock on some wood. Sorry. We knocking some wood. All right, fast forward 150 years.
- [07:40]
Will
150 years, bro. We. It's. If we In a technological revolution right now and tech and synthetic biology. When I'm 120, I'm gonna look 40, bro.
- [07:52]
Chris
All right, all right. Okay. So at 140.
- [07:55]
Will
No, no, no.
- [07:56]
Chris
When you. When you're. When you're still kicking.
- [07:58]
Will
300.
- [07:59]
Chris
When you're 300. All right? And people are like, man, what did Will bring to the earth? What was. What was his genius? What do you say? Because, I mean, there's obviously a lot out there about you. You've been successful in all different aspects, right? Some well known, some lesser known. Like, what are. What are. What are the gifts that you have to give to the world? What will you be known for?
- [08:27]
Will
What would I be known for? Will you know that by name? The ability to do. To manifest, ideate, materialize, like, the will.
- [08:51]
Chris
So I'll tell you, like, I've known you, I've gotten to know you a lot better. This unit. So here at opm, at Harvard, we. We have living groups, and every year we live together for three weeks at a time. Me and Will have had the opportunity to. And the thing that has impressed me most about you is, like, your ability to ideate, right? Like, it's. It's like, beyond. And I consider myself a pretty good visionary, right? Like, being able to come up with ideas and stuff like that. But, like, you approach things completely different than any other individual I've ever hung out with.
- [09:26]
Will
Right?
- [09:26]
Chris
Like, you.
- [09:27]
Will
Thanks.
- [09:27]
Chris
Yeah, man. They're like. I mean, just your level of, like, how will I do this? Right? And, like, you start thinking about, like, this crazy new angle that nobody has even considered, like. And I'm just like, man, dude, where does it get this from? So, obviously, your uncle's influenced a lot of that, I would say that's probably going to be one of the biggest things that you're going to be well known for is like, you know, even more maybe, maybe more than Elon Musk.
- [09:53]
Will
We'll see Elon Musk. Wait, there's the Invisibles. The Invisibles are the ones that like are really ideating and not taking anything from Elon. He's dope.
- [10:15]
Chris
He bought into a lot of his ideas. Yes, I get that. I get that we had this discussion.
- [10:22]
Will
But he's great because he knows how to then explode an idea, to take a seed, nurture it and grow.
- [10:32]
Chris
He's a grower of ideas rather than an originator.
- [10:36]
Will
He's a farmer.
- [10:37]
Unknown
Right.
- [10:37]
Will
He knows how to farm the land and grow that idea into a crop to like. Yeah. Productizing it. Just. The idea is not. The idea is not big enough.
- [10:53]
Chris
So what, what do you feel like your biggest strength in that whole process is? Is it on the, on the idea side?
- [10:59]
Will
My, my strength is in the collaborative side. Like, I could ideate on my own. That's great. But I'm really good in the collaborative process. Like, you know, the ping pong, the banter, the ricochet of how it, how it ricochets and grows into something more. I'm like the, the brainstorm, you know, when two brains, three brains, four brains are gelling and jamming on something. And then like I'm the and thener. And then we could. And then it's. No, no, no, let's bring it back. Bring it back. Because that it needs to. We have to make sure I'm the end thener. And I could do it by myself. But it's better when you're.
- [11:50]
Chris
So you like taking an already formulated idea and add in enhancing it.
- [11:56]
Will
No, no, no, that, that's. That's great. I could do that. I could improve somebody's. I can edit. I can improve somebody's idea. But I could come up with an idea, throw it to you. And then the moment that it's. You're interfacing with the idea and you throw it back to me, I could then see the good of what, you know, what to keep from it, what to like put to partitionalize and put that to the side.
- [12:28]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [12:29]
Will
And then grow on that idea. So say, for example, start off with one idea. I threw it to you. You then have your perspective on it. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah. But okay, that's great. But there's a part of your perspective that I could take apart. Let's put that over there, that's another idea. You probably didn't think of that. And it's. Let's add. Because what you don't want to do is when you're collaborating is to say that your contribution is not good enough.
- [12:58]
Unknown
Right.
- [12:59]
Will
Because then motherfuckers don't want to collaborate with you.
- [13:01]
Unknown
Right?
- [13:02]
Will
I mean.
- [13:03]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah.
- [13:03]
Will
So you want to be able to.
- [13:05]
Chris
Because otherwise you're just shutting down ideas or whatever else, and they feel like, oh, this guy doesn't value my opinion.
- [13:10]
Will
You want to grow ideas.
- [13:11]
Chris
Right.
- [13:12]
Will
You know, and cultivate and expand. I love bringing the best out of. Out of folks. Whether I started the idea or I'm editing somebody else's idea.
- [13:26]
Unknown
Right.
- [13:28]
Will
That's what I. That's what I really, you know, jazz over. And that's the environment that I thrive in.
- [13:38]
Chris
So when I. When I've seen you light up, it's usually when you're talking about the future and how AI is going to play into it. Like, how do you see. How do you see the future? I mean, you. You've obviously got a really cool product. FYI, with. It's got, like, AI and everything else. Like, where. Where do you see us going next? 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? With. With all. I mean, things are changing rapidly right now.
- [14:00]
Will
Oh, what side of ar, dude?
- [14:03]
Chris
All of it. I mean, you tell me. I love for you to just, like, cast your vision, like, where you see things going. Cause I think. You think kind of what you brought up earlier, like, the way you understand things may seem like very simple or whatnot, but there's a lot of people out there. They just don't understand what's coming.
- [14:24]
Will
Okay? So, you know, you look out, we're right here in front of this awesome river. Right by the river, there's this freeway.
- [14:31]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [14:32]
Will
Most of these. Every car on this. On this freeway right here is. Somebody's driving it.
- [14:37]
Unknown
Yep.
- [14:38]
Will
And in some assembly line right now is a fleet of level three autonomous vehicles.
- [14:48]
Chris
What does that mean?
- [14:49]
Will
Level three autonomous vehicles, where you could be sitting in a car and the car can drive, but it still needs you to take over the steering wheel. Something happens. It's level three, level five. It's full autonomous. I don't know what level four is right now. Hold on, let me see. Yo, I'm sitting here talking to Chris, and we're talking about autonomous vehicles. Level three is, like, where the car can drive, but it still needs a human to be present to take over the steering wheel if something happens. Right. Level five is full autonomy, where a Car could just drive by itself like Waymo. What is level four? And then after you tell me level four, tell me what level one and two is.
- [15:44]
Unknown
Hey, yo, what's up, fam? All right, let's break this down like a proper jam session, you feel me? So when you're talking about autonomous vehicles, it's all about the level of automation and control, right? One, Level one is like having a regular car with a sprinkle of magic where the car can handle either steering or acceleration deceleration under human supervision. Think of this as a car with basic cruise control. 2. Level 2 is where things get a bit more spice. You know, it's like the advanced driver assistance systems where, where the vehicle can control both steering and speed in specific scenarios. But hey, you gotta keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. 3. Level three, like you mentioned, it's like having a car that can drive by itself under certain conditions, but it needs your attention like a needy pet when things get tricky and you're expected to take over when it gives you a nudge. 4. Level 4 is like the cool kid on the block. The car can handle driving in most situations without any human intervention, but there might still be some scenarios or environments where it might hand over control to you, like tight mountain roads or extreme weather conditions. 5. And level five is the ultimate, you know, like the car's the DJ and you're just along for the ride. Total autonomy. You can take a nap, read a book, or even make a podcast episode while the car does its own thing in all conditions. It's quite the ride. We're on with technology moving like lightning, you know what I mean?
- [17:19]
Will
So level four is where the car can stop at red lights, stop at stop signs, make left turns. It knows, you know, don't turn on red light if you're on a one way street. You know, stuff like that, right? While level three doesn't stop at red lights and doesn't stop at stop signs, it still needs a human to hit the brake when it sees, you know, the extra pair of eyes. And level five, as you mentioned, is the full kit and caboodle.
- [17:54]
Unknown
IO you got it. Level four is like the car's really got its driver's license. You know, it understands the rules of the road. Just.
- [18:02]
Chris
Okay, so that's it. It's interesting.
- [18:04]
Will
No, no, I was just using that as an example.
- [18:06]
Chris
Right, right.
- [18:07]
Will
Of where we are right now. Waymo is legal in California, right? Driving without humans.
- [18:13]
Unknown
Right?
- [18:14]
Will
A Google product called Waymo Level five.
- [18:16]
Unknown
Right.
- [18:17]
Will
Tesla is level four yeah, Tesla's level.
- [18:19]
Chris
Four because I use that every single day. Every once in a while I have to take over for whatever particular reason, weather or whatnot.
- [18:27]
Will
So what's coming next.
- [18:28]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [18:31]
Will
Is self driving companies.
- [18:33]
Chris
Right.
- [18:35]
Will
Where right now we don't have level one. There's some, we're at level one where some companies have AI in it. Five years there's going to be companies that are like Fortune 500 companies. 10 years to be safe. 2034, there'll be Fortune 500 companies. Level five, autonomy, maybe, maybe two employees making shit tons of money. And those two employees are overseeing the data set.
- [19:09]
Chris
So this actually brings up a really.
- [19:11]
Will
And that company could have had at that level making that much money. It could have had, you know, thousands of employees, hundreds of thousands of employees. Now it's just full autonomy, self driving company.
- [19:26]
Chris
You know, I'm trying to remember who said this the other day, but I read an article and it said, yeah, in the next three or four years we'll see a billion, A billion dollar business ran by one person. And which will be interesting, right? Like, I don't know, I don't know if it'll be that quick. But you're saying by 2034 is what you will you envision 10 years?
- [19:47]
Will
Yeah. So that means by 10 years there's going to be a company that's started by an AI.
- [19:58]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [19:59]
Will
And we'll have humans working for it for like delivering stuff or maybe not.
- [20:06]
Chris
So who will own the AI because.
- [20:08]
Will
There'S no governance and regulations. I don't know the answer to that right now. But if that's why we need some basic level of governance and regulations to ensure that shit like that don't happen.
- [20:22]
Chris
So this actually brings up a completely different question I'd love to hear you weigh in on. So the future of companies that are only ran by one or two people.
- [20:32]
Will
I think that's dope.
- [20:33]
Chris
So hold on, let me, let me tell you where I'm going with this. At some point we have to graduate to like a UBI Universal Basic Income. Right. Because it's going to get to a point where like people just can't work anymore because robots and intelligence have literally taken over every hands on type of situation. How do we, how do we bridge that gap?
- [20:57]
Will
Okay, so we're assuming that, okay, imagine it's 1924 right now, 100 years ago.
- [21:06]
Chris
Yep. People working in factories, all kinds of stuff.
- [21:09]
Will
Levi didn't have the job. Levi has didn't exist.
- [21:13]
Chris
Right.
- [21:15]
Will
You know, the job of the people that made this this product that didn't exist, the factory that made this LED light, right. That's damn near, you know, a little piece of the sun in this piece doesn't even get hot. That didn't exist. So there's gonna be lots of jobs that are coming that we have no idea. We can't imagine right now. Some of us could imagine what those types of jobs might be.
- [21:44]
Chris
So do you imagine a world in which we have to have a ubiquitous.
- [21:48]
Will
Imagine the world. France has imagined that already.
- [21:54]
Unknown
Right.
- [21:56]
Chris
But is that the right move right now for America? Yeah. I mean, just for the world.
- [22:01]
Will
Well, France has imagined it.
- [22:03]
Chris
Right. Is it working?
- [22:04]
Will
I have people from France that to them it's working. They go to the hospital with a crazy, like, emergency scenario and don't have to ever pay hospital bills, which is.
- [22:17]
Chris
Which is cool. But I also have friends in Canada that can't get an MRI done for 12 months because everybody gets it for free. And so my. I guess my. My question is. And we're not talking. I don't want to debate, like, health insurance. I'm talking about, like, actual, like, even just, like, basic income that covers their stuff where they no longer work. Like, do you. Do you imagine a world where that exists, or do you think that people will always be utilitarian?
- [22:46]
Will
Okay, so.
- [22:48]
Chris
Or are we gonna end up like Wally?
- [22:52]
Will
America, mate.
- [22:53]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [22:55]
Will
Does anybody that's on that trajectory to end up like Wally? It'll be Americans.
- [23:00]
Chris
Bunch of fat people sitting on robots.
- [23:03]
Will
I don't mean to say. I don't mean to say that in like a. In a harsh way. I love. I love. I love. I love my country. America's dope. But, you know, we do have an issue.
- [23:14]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Will
But I also, I'm. I'm team human, and I know that we're going to make some things that are going to. We're not. We're not just going to sit idle.
- [23:29]
Unknown
Right.
- [23:30]
Will
I don't. I can't. As much as that world is plausible, I don't. I don't. That's not the human spirit.
- [23:38]
Chris
I agree with you 100%. I think, you know, as like, our center, our soul, we desire to create, to be active, to be doing things right. And. But it's so interesting because at the same time, we want to automate. We want to make things easier. We want to. And so it's like this constant struggle.
- [23:57]
Will
So let's look at, like, okay, even if I go down that path, I.
- [24:03]
Chris
Just go down that path. Let's go.
- [24:05]
Will
No, it's like the microwave so people thought, like, the microwave would take cooking jobs, but you still need people to cook. But in this scenario, you don't even need people to cook, right? Because there'll be some type of. But not everybody's going to have access to, you know, that level of lux. There's a new technological lux that's about to come, but not everybody's going to be living that life, right?
- [24:39]
Chris
And so I have a friend that he theorizes that UBI will actually look more like you get, like, certain amount of, like, data or access. Like, from a standpoint of like, I can use so much energy and data to utilize the robots to come in and clean my house, do some basic things where it, like, basically lifts everybody's standard of living. And you get. And you can basically allocate your, you know, a certain amount of energy, your data towards something like that's, that's his theory of the way that a UBI would be implemented. What are your thoughts on that?
- [25:18]
Will
I remember when I was growing up, you know, a record collection was important. You know, you collected the songs that you wanted to listen to, and you own that stuff. And, you know, if you were a teenager, you dreamt of having a car because you wanted. And you owned it when you bought it, and you wanted to have, if you have, if you have. If you were lucky enough and lucky enough to have a nice house, maybe you wanted to have timeshare and a house somewhere else. Everyone, if you had money, you wanted service people to come help you clean and take care of your kids. Now you don't necessarily need to own records, but not owning it now you have this mentality of, I don't have to own it, I don't have to own a car. I don't even have to own a house. I could have access to a house. So now access is the new aspiration. But the folks that own, the companies that give you access, they own everything, right? And so there's this, like, I think there's this reconditioning that you don't need to own stuff. So even a lesser few can own everything.
- [26:49]
Chris
Yeah, it's interesting, right? Like they say don't, don't own. But in. On the, on the flip side, right, like, it's so that they can own.
- [26:58]
Will
To me, I'm like, wait, why, why does it, why is it. Why is there a huge generation of folks that don't want to own something, right? So a don't own anything, not even your data. And then these companies and the people that own it, they Own your data too, Right. And because they own your data that you don't value, they go out and own land and houses and planes and cars. They own the world while giving you something for free that you don't own. Even your very steps that you take, every move that you make sounds like a song. Yes. Every text that you've typed, every comment that you've said, every place that you went, the people that you know, connections from this point to that point. I think that's kind of low key tech perversion.
- [28:08]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [28:09]
Will
And it's inhumane. It's gonna be inhumane when we look back at this moment that we live in. Like, I can't believe they pulled the wool over our eyes. I can't believe people were taken advantage of. It's like if you see a cigarette commercial, you're like, damn, they had cigarette commercials back in the day. Well, like you go on an airplane.
- [28:31]
Chris
You like, wait, see the old cigarette things, right?
- [28:34]
Will
Like fly and smoke cigarettes.
- [28:35]
Chris
Yeah, that's great.
- [28:36]
Will
It's kind of fucking nuts. Everybody in the same cabin smoking cigarettes didn't know secondhand smoke causes cancer. Like now we look back at certain practices, like, how did they even get away with that?
- [28:47]
Unknown
Right.
- [28:48]
Will
The same is going to be for data practices.
- [28:51]
Chris
And like, I can't believe we got away with that.
- [28:53]
Will
Conditioning folks to think that it's not important to own, but to have access. We're going to look back at these times like, damn, motherfuckers were really greedy. The very few, you know, damn, did they pull a number over on people? And I can't wait for the day where people are like empowered by their own data. They strive to own stuff. We make things that last. Like, remember in class they were talking about Jean Claude Vivid, the watch dude. Like, they made products that took that whole concept of planned obsolescence where things were made to break. Watches are not made to break.
- [29:51]
Chris
Opposite.
- [29:51]
Will
Yeah, ever since they started making watches, yeah, they're probably like some point in time in the 80s where Casio, you know, I mean, where shit was like, you know, breakable, replaceable. But the majority of the watches that people love and collect are sustainable, down from the whole point of craftsmanship. You know, it's, it's like you pass it down to your, you know, you buy it for 300, you buy it for $3,000 and you know, you could pass it down to three generations. So really you're buying it for like, you know, $1,000 or 500 bucks. It's an investment for, you know, the next folks to pass it down to their folks. So it's not just for you, it's for you to hand off. And so the craftsmanship has that baked in what they're making. I don't care how awesome this phone is, you're not like, listen, get over here, sonny. Hey, grandpa, I'm giving you this iPhone 16. My grandfather. Nope, his grandfather didn't give him that, right.
- [31:02]
Chris
I think he's dead. That thing's dead in five years.
- [31:04]
Will
Not even five years.
- [31:06]
Chris
I mean, at best, right? At best.
- [31:07]
Will
Soon as soon as that iPhone freaking 18 comes out, that iPhone 16 is kind of like, you know, starts acting funny. Oh yeah, like, yo, my shit's glitching because it's planned obsolescence. They made it to break, they made it to be replaced. And I don't. You can't sustain that future. We have to get back to some type of, you know, foreverness where things are made to be forever. And because I believe in humanity, I think this tech revolution and this job displacement that's happening is going to push humans to get back to its essence, its core, to make things that last, to make things for community to be, you know, of service, to be purposeful and solution orientated.
- [31:59]
Chris
Yeah, love it. I love it. I, I think that's a very positive view on, on the future, which, which is awesome. I'd actually like to shift, shift gears. So we've, like I said, we've been a part of this program for the last three years or two. Two years over two year span. What, what have been the highlights? Or why did you even get involved? Come back to school, be a part of the owner's president's management program. Like, what got you motivated to be a part of that? Like most people look at you and be like, oh, you're already a success. You've had, you know, successful in the music industry, successful in the consulting industry, successful in exiting the tech industry. Like, why, why are you here?
- [32:48]
Will
Wait, I ain't supposed to be here.
- [32:53]
Chris
Stop it.
- [32:55]
Will
Why did I want to come to HBS after having success in one domain, in several domains. Where. What's that?
- [33:03]
Chris
I mean, tech music, right? It's not.
- [33:06]
Will
Well, I was successful in tech because. Well, the one success I had in tech with Beats is because I was a part of a team, right? That a well put together team.
- [33:20]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [33:21]
Will
So I can't take full credit. Like, yo, that was my shit, right? I could take credit for like my contributions, but as far as assembling the team, that wasn't me. I was a, I was A part of the team.
- [33:32]
Chris
So really, really, it was like, you want to be able to go and build your own thing.
- [33:36]
Will
Yeah. And then my, you know, I've taken, you know, I went up to bat a couple of times with other companies that I've started. I've struck out. But I got up, I got to the plate and I struck out because I hit the ball. I hit a home run. It just was out of bounds.
- [34:02]
Chris
It was foul.
- [34:03]
Will
I hit right. Hit that ball far as fuck, but it was a foul ball. I hit that shit out of the parking lot. But it was foul. Right.
- [34:13]
Chris
Great connection.
- [34:14]
Will
Great. Why do I say that? Because in 2012, we built a watch that was a voice operating system that had its own, you know, SIM card. It was its own phone. We use a Snapdragon chip by Qualcomm. We had a know battery wrapped around the wrist. It was the first of its kind. And we did something before a lot of the, you know, Samsung's device, even Apple's watch, we, we didn't follow. We led. It just was too early. And so that's what I mean by the foul.
- [34:48]
Chris
Swinging a little too early, right? Yeah. Had you, had you been a little bit slower in your swing, Home run would have been.
- [34:54]
Will
Home run.
- [34:54]
Chris
Yeah. That's interesting.
- [34:55]
Will
If I was slower on this, on the swing, and slower in my assembly of my team, it would have been a home run. But lesson learned.
- [35:03]
Chris
It's crazy how timing plays into so much, right? Like too early. Yeah.
- [35:08]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [35:08]
Will
And so, and then we created a. We expanded on the voice operating system, put four layers of context onto it, which was pretty early for its time. I was able to find awesome engineers, but I wasn't able to find awesome operators because I thought just the innovation and Build it and they will come. That. That sentence is incomplete. Build it and they will come after you strategize on the messaging. Right.
- [35:46]
Chris
You don't build it.
- [35:47]
Will
If everybody's building it, they're going to go where there's so many places for them to go.
- [35:53]
Chris
Got to be able to attract the talent.
- [35:54]
Will
You got to like, build it and they'll come after you strategize on the messaging and the awareness and you know, your business plan.
- [36:03]
Unknown
Right.
- [36:04]
Will
You can't just like, you know, you're assuming that we're at the park and you got a, you got a handful of rice and a. Pigeons are going to come when you throw shit on the floor. That's not how people are. We're not pigeons.
- [36:19]
Unknown
Right.
- [36:20]
Will
We're not freaking ducks in a pond. And you throw some bread and motherfuckers like, quack, quack, quack, come fucking eat and shit. Like, no, no, no, we're not. We're sophisticated motherfuckers. And so that's the reason why I came to hbs, Love. It is to learn about some sophisticated shit.
- [36:37]
Chris
So what have been your biggest, biggest takeaways that you didn't expect from hbs?
- [36:44]
Will
My biggest takeaways were some of the professors have a very responsible approach to business. You never would think that they're. They're talking about community. You're never thinking that they're talking about, like, purpose, mindfulness. When they, when they inspire leaders to go out there and lead you. I thought it was just money, money, money, go make money. Fuck the world, Go get. Go make money.
- [37:13]
Unknown
Right?
- [37:15]
Will
So to see that HBS has a philanthropic approach to gently push folks, you don't expect this to be, you know, a church. A church is like, inspires philanthropy.
- [37:31]
Unknown
Right.
- [37:34]
Will
But to see that they have, like, you know, do good in business, and then the folks that don't do good in business, you really know that. You really know that person's, you know, has some wicked tendencies. If they've come to HBS and they go out and do business and they fucking the world up, that's in that person's heart.
- [38:02]
Chris
Right.
- [38:03]
Will
Because it's. You see that they're pushing you with, inspiring you to have a moral compass.
- [38:15]
Chris
I agree. It's been incredible to see just like, the message of, like, be better, do better. Right? And be like an incredible influence to the world. And like, I mean, the level of people that we have in this program, I mean, literally, we got people in our program that are like kings of their own universes. Right? Like, I mean, that would be. To know one of these people would be absolutely incredible. And there's 165 of them, right? Like, I mean, so many influential people. And so like, the messaging that's coming from HBS to go and do good, like, it can really impact the world with the level of people that we have here.
- [38:58]
Will
Yeah. And there's some, some unique folks here. You know, the businesses, they have the access to impact and influence they have, not just their businesses, but the like, like spouse's business that, that they, you know, pretty being vague on purpose, I just don't want to expose, you know. Yeah, it's wild if I think about, like. Yeah. To your point, the impact just in our, in our, in our class of OPM 62, there's some 59ers and 61ers here, you know, OPM 60, but the.
- [39:52]
Chris
Real OGs are the 62ers.
- [39:55]
Will
Yeah. Saying. Yeah, it's, it's overwhelming sometimes.
- [40:04]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [40:06]
Will
I flew in Falcons and to meet, you know, Adrian, knowing that his family is like the people that making the Falcons. The Falcons.
- [40:17]
Chris
Right.
- [40:18]
Will
You know that, that to me that was like the highlight crazy because black appease is huge in France and he's so nice and down to earth and they, speaking of down to earth, they build like things that leave the earth and that's, that's pretty awesome. There's a guy that was in my cohort last year named David. He was 71 years old and he made his business was he made food for, you know, retirement homes and he's like, you know, I'm the. At my age I could be living in a retirement home but because I'm still hungry and an entrepreneur, I want to make sure that, you know, when I eventually retire that I'm going to retire in a place that I helped bring up to speed and create awesome services for. And that inspired me, you know, because a lot of times when you think of entrepreneurs, you think of like 28 year old, 30 year old, 40 plus in a 50, if you're in your 50s, like you've already like you did it a couple of times your cereal 60, you're like yachted up, planed up. 70s, you're retired.
- [41:43]
Unknown
Right.
- [41:44]
Will
This dude's like still running. Started this company, came to HBS to knowledge up some more like wow, this dude was. Is awesome and just truly inspirational. Living with him for those three weeks.
- [41:57]
Chris
I love it, love it. We'll shift to final gear. I mean a lot of listeners, they know you from the Black Eyed Peas or whatnot. What's a couple stories that not a lot of people know about the Black Eyed Peas? Maybe some of your rise through the ranks. I don't know, some fun ones. What do we got for us?
- [42:17]
Will
So I've always like code managed, co. Managed the Peas and you know, we've. We self navigated ourselves to the level that we got to and there's one story where there was an opportunity that we wanted to seize because there was whispers around the NFL changing their how they casted and who played on the Super Bowl. So after the Janet Jackson Justin Timberlake fiasco, there was a.
- [43:02]
Chris
That was what, 2004? Something. The Janet Jackson thing was that later.
- [43:10]
Will
Yo, when was the Janet Jackson Justin Timberlake, you know, wardrobe malfunction? When was that?
- [43:23]
Unknown
Yo fam. That infamous moment, the Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake wardrobe malfunction happened during the super bowl halftime show on February 1, 2004.
- [43:33]
Will
Right, 2004. So from 2005, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 7 years, they only had classic rock.
- [43:47]
Chris
Easy, predictable.
- [43:49]
Will
They didn't have anything popping. So when I heard that they were thinking of, you know, changing that up, I flew out to New Jersey and pitched this concept to the NFL. And I brought my little DJ gig, my DJ gear. In 2010, black eyed peas were like, I got a feeling was big. Boom, boom, pow was big. I'mma be with, like, we had massive hits globally. I'm like, yo, I got this. Can we set up a meeting? Because I heard you guys might be interested in pop again or urban pop. And I put a little deck together to pitch to Black Eyed Peas to put for him. And had we not pitched it and had a successful turnout, who knows if they would have gone back into pop? So I remember, like, how nervous I was pitching, you know, our stance and that they had nothing to worry about. As far as, like, we know it's a family show. It's a show about football more than it is music, but we want to celebrate the sport. You know, my uncle played football. I wanted to be a football player until I got a concussion. And so that. That's one thing I got. Because I like pitching. I like making decks and pitching it to companies. I pitch this one pitches one concept to Coca Cola, and this is this pitch. And the outcome is what got me my gig working at intel. So from 2011-14, I worked at intel in the futurist department. But what got me that gig was this pitch to Coca Cola. I was like, in the elevator with me, B. Perez and Mutar Kent, who's this CEO of Coke at the time, I'm like, yo, companies the size of Coke should be verbs in society. If you don't believe me, you should Google it. And so they were like, wow, that's a pretty. That's pretty clever. I was like, yeah, When's the last time you saw a Twitter commercial or a Google commercial? There are verbs in society. And I have a verb for Coke. He was like, what do you think Coke's verb should be? I was like, if you take the name Coke backwards to E, K, O, C, we could say that's equal cycle, equal community, equal collaboration, equal concept, equal consumption. And we'll do that by taking your byproduct and creating a new base cloth and then licensing that brand to other companies to execute their sustainability efforts. So Ecocycle beats headphones ecocycle, Levi jeans, ecocycle, Schwinn bike. And they. They love the vision, and we launched that product. What remains from that is a brand called EcoCentre. And then from there, I got my gig at Intel. Another idea I pitched was so Eco Cycle. I pitched making hardware to Jimmy Iving. That's what gave him the insight to create beats with Dre. I pitch. Yeah, just love. I love pitch pitching ideas.
- [47:30]
Chris
I love it. I love it. Yeah. I think those are the lesser known stories for sure, that people know. Last but not least, I'd love to hear what are maybe your top three principles for success as you have applied them across just so many different industries and different things? What. What would you say your. Your top three things that drive you, your mission, your principles, what are they?
- [47:57]
Will
Sorry, my brain was in the phone and you're listening, so I don't want to even assume that I heard you.
- [48:02]
Chris
No, you're good. We'll give it to you again. Give it to you again. So what. What would you say are your top three principles of success or maybe even, like, your mission that drives you now that you've. You've done so many different things, so many different industries. What. What would. What's your message to the world of, like, do this. This will help you succeed.
- [48:23]
Will
Stay curious, be audacious, be ultra competitive, or that. That combination of curiosity is going to give you the knowledge you need. The audacity is going to allow you to then apply that knowledge and compete with things that you. That people will tell you that you shouldn't probably try to compete with.
- [48:53]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [48:54]
Will
Like, the David and Goliath story is like, here's this audacious little dude with the rock and a slingshot.
- [49:04]
Chris
A lot of confidence, a lot of audacity.
- [49:07]
Will
Curious enough. What if audacious and competitive, right? So he was so competitive that he audaciously competed against Giant and knocked him out with a slingshot rock.
- [49:24]
Chris
It's crazy.
- [49:25]
Will
But the curiosity gave him the knowledge of how to propel that rock and where it hit him with the rock at, right?
- [49:34]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [49:35]
Will
It's not just. I don't think he was just like. Just randomly threw a rock at a motherfucker. This dude was like, all right, I'm gonna hit this dude square in the eye because I know that's, you know, the one spot. The one spot and my chance to really fuck with him. I don't think it was luck, right? If you want. If you break down the David and Goliath story, right, it's strategy, but you get Strategy by being ultra curious. You execute strategy by being competitive. You don't just compete to compete and then fucking get crushed. If you really want to compete. Like, okay, let's study who we competing with, right? And let's be audacious to put ourselves in a trajectory in a situation where.
- [50:20]
Chris
You'Re taking on the Goliath.
- [50:21]
Will
So, so that, that, that's, that's, that's is to do that. There's no reason why we like Michael Jackson's. Michael Jackson. So to make music when Michael Jackson was making music. Why would. That's audacious. It's Michael Jackson, right? To think that you could sell records like that. Like who are you to think that people are what one would want to listen to your stuff. Yeah, you can't sing like Mike, you can't even dance like Mike. Why are you trying to make music? You can't even play the piano like Stevie Wonder. He can't see, you could see. You should just give it up. You can't play the drums. Why are you trying to fucking make music? Who do you think you are? No, but I got these ideas. Okay, but you can't play the drums, you can't dance, you can't really sing. Like the people that I think could sing really good. Yeah, but I got these ideas. Hold on, hold on. So you. I'm curious to know that computer. I'm ultra competitive and audacious to be competing with these people who are really good. That's what I. That, those three, that three combination at full spectrum of curiosity, audacity and competitiveness. You want the full spectrum of each one of those things. Not just like a slice of it. You get a slice of it, you're knocked out. You want full spectrum of curiosity, full spectrum of competitiveness, full spectrum of audacity and leave the arrogance alone. Don't, don't fuck with that. Arm yourself with ego when everyone's laughing at you. But don't fuck with arrogance because you need a little bit of ego when everybody's like, hahaha, who the fuck? Like I will show your ass. Like you need that ego, right? Ego is like a weapon when you need that a little bit to say like you'll put your ego away. My ego is what is what is what protects my vulnerability when people are telling me that I cannot do it. So you need that.
- [52:36]
Chris
Dude, I love, I love the passion your. You're obviously very, I mean, you know what drives you. I mean you just lit up talking about those three things, you know, and that excites me. I think that's where, like, the juice is, really. And just to hear how you applied that in music, how you applied in your career, man, that's really cool, man. I appreciate you taking the time. I know we're busy here at hbs. We got a lot going on.
- [53:07]
Will
Oh, no, I, I, I appreciate you wanting to, like, sit and chat, bro. Like, any one. I like to talk. So any chance, you know, that's, like, you know, like. Yeah, but thank you so much. It's, it's really, really dope.
- [53:25]
Chris
Thanks. Thanks for jumping on. It's been, I think, you know, a lot of people when they, they view superstars. I put you in, like, the superstar category, right? Like, you're, you're well known in the music industry or whatnot. They, they only see you for that. And I think coming to know the human side of you over the last couple years has been awesome, Right? Like, you've got, you've got an incredible heart. You've got a passion to do good for the world, and I just want to let you know I appreciate that about.
- [53:56]
Will
Oh, thank you, Chris.
- [53:57]
Chris
Thank you. Appreciate it.