#131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars

Summary

Next Level Pros Podcast Summary

Episode #131: 3 9-Figure Businesses in One Room? How Tommy Mello, Chris Lee, And Daryl Kelly Grew Their Businesses to Hundreds of Millions of Dollars
Release Date: November 22, 2024
Host: Chris Lee

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1. Introduction and Background

In this episode of Next Level Pros, host Chris Lee is joined by entrepreneurs Tommy Mello and Daryl Kelly. The trio delves into their respective journeys of building nine-figure businesses, sharing insights, challenges, and strategies that have propelled them to immense success.

Notable Quote:

• Tommy Mello [00:00]: "We're really good at that. We're really good. Like, I'm an optimist. I don't care if the cup is empty. I make it half full."

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2. Foundations of Success

The conversation begins with both Chris and Tommy reflecting on their humble beginnings. Chris mentions relatable origins, likening their early operations to iconic startups like Google and Facebook starting in garages.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Lee [00:19]: "We would always be like, look, this is us."
• Daryl Kelly [00:29]: "I realized, like, as a visionary, you can't be a man of your word. You got to be a man of your vision."

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3. Building and Maintaining Business Relationships

Tommy highlights the importance of fostering strong relationships with business partners. The dynamic between him, Chris, and Daryl is likened to a marriage, emphasizing the balance between distinct personalities and leadership styles.

Notable Quotes:

• Tommy Mello [06:07]: "We got two alphas. Just, just."
• Daryl Kelly [08:05]: "I'm firing them for everyone else who's there working for me."

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4. Strategic Growth and Scaling Businesses

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around scaling businesses effectively. Tommy shares his experience with private equity (PE), detailing the challenges and lessons learned from selling his business to PE firms. Both Chris and Daryl provide insights into maintaining control and ensuring sustainable growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Tommy Mello [17:22]: "The fear is like, what if I hire this guy, and he takes my whole team and he starts to."
• Chris Lee [30:11]: "We got this great strategy of generating leads online."

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5. Hiring Practices and Company Culture

Both entrepreneurs stress the importance of hiring the right people and cultivating a strong company culture. They discuss avoiding industry-drilled hires in favor of molding talented individuals from diverse backgrounds, thereby fostering loyalty and high performance.

Notable Quotes:

• Tommy Mello [53:17]: "We have to create homegrown badasses."
• Chris Lee [54:04]: "We never hire industry people because industry people are trained up incorrectly."

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6. Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Innovation

The trio shares how they navigated unexpected challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic, by leveraging innovative strategies like virtual sales floors. They emphasize resilience, adaptability, and the relentless pursuit of improvement as key factors in overcoming obstacles.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Lee [32:49]: "That was our really cutting edge because we initially did what we called web to home."
• Tommy Mello [27:07]: "I'm a fighter. And I never wanted to quit."

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7. Lessons from Private Equity and Business Sales

Tommy offers a candid perspective on selling businesses to PE groups, discussing the emotional and strategic implications. He advises on the importance of maintaining control over critical aspects like marketing and underscores the potential pitfalls of such partnerships.

Notable Quotes:

• Daryl Kelly [59:42]: "You do lose control when you have a partner like a PE."
• Tommy Mello [71:56]: "Money will ruin people quicker than it'll help them."

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8. Personal Development and Habits

Personal growth is a recurring theme, with both Chris and Tommy advocating for disciplined habits and continuous self-improvement. They highlight the significance of physical health, mental resilience, and the cultivation of positive routines as foundations for business success.

Notable Quotes:

• Tommy Mello [80:37]: "I am your greatest helper or your heaviest burden. I will push you onward or drag you down to failure."
• Chris Lee [79:14]: "Atomic Habits by James. Every time I read that book, it gets my mind right."

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9. Closing Insights and Recommendations

As the podcast wraps up, the guests offer valuable advice to aspiring entrepreneurs. They emphasize the importance of having a unique "why," investing in personal and professional development, and prioritizing meaningful goals over superficial success.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Lee [90:23]: "Get your time and what you say is really put down a list of priorities you want your life to look like."
• Tommy Mello [92:26]: "Money will ruin people quicker than it'll help them. So just be very careful what you guys want."

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Key Takeaways

1. Vision Over Words: As Daryl Kelly cites, being a man of vision is crucial for entrepreneurs, as it allows for flexibility and adaptability in leadership.
2. Hiring the Right Talent: Building a team from diverse backgrounds and focusing on personality assessments can lead to a high-performing workforce.
3. Embrace Continuous Learning: Engaging with mentors, consultants, and investing in personal development are essential for scaling businesses.
4. Strong Company Culture: Transparency, trust, and aligning company goals with individual aspirations foster loyalty and drive.
5. Resilience is Key: Overcoming setbacks through innovation and determination is fundamental to long-term success.
6. Balanced Personal Life: Prioritizing health and personal well-being enhances overall productivity and leadership effectiveness.

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Connect with the Hosts:

• Chris Lee: Follow on Instagram [@ChrisLeeQB]
• Tommy Mello: Visit TommyMello.com for all social links
• Daryl Kelly: Find on Instagram [@DarrellCKelly]

Recommended Books:

• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• Becoming Supernatural by Joe Dispenza
• Good to Great & Built to Last by Jim Collins

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This episode of Next Level Pros offers a deep dive into the minds of successful entrepreneurs, providing listeners with actionable insights and inspiring stories to fuel their own business ambitions.

Transcript

[Tommy Mello]

That's sales 101 is how to win friends and influence people. Get people to buy into your dream. Or us entrepreneurs. We really are good at that. We're really good. Like, I'm an optimist. I don't care if the cup is empty. I make it half full, right? And like. But people are like, dude, that's not even real. Like, there's no way that's possible. I'm like, there is.

[Chris Lee]

Well, it's funny, like, I had this picture. It was like four different garages. It showed the Google garage, the Facebook garage, and we had the soul gen garage. And we would always be like, look, this is us.

[Daryl Kelly]

Here's something interesting, though. When I. When I grew up, up, it was common to say, you know, be a man of your word.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

I realized, like, as a visionary, you can't be a man of your word. You got to be a man of your vision. Right? Because if you're a man of your word, like, you've got to know how to fulfill on what you're saying.

[Tommy Mello]

All right, guys, we're doing a double podcast here. Chris Lee and Daryl Kelly are here. We've got the founder podcast meets the home service expert.

[Chris Lee]

Ooh, we actually just rebranded.

[Tommy Mello]

What is it now?

[Chris Lee]

Next level pros, baby.

[Tommy Mello]

Next level pros.

[Daryl Kelly]

Let's go.

[Chris Lee]

Come on.

[Tommy Mello]

So I'll just do an intro. You guys know I've got the garage door business. Things are going really, really well. I don't care what size you get to. There's new challenges. Like, people are like, man, I'd love to be where Tommy's at. But it comes through two decades of failure and still the anxiety and stress. Luckily, I could take this. I could take it on the chin. It doesn't really affect me, but I really feel like we're just getting started. Like, I know people that are at like, 5 million. They're like, that's it. I hit my cap. I'm done. I want out. I'm going to make enough money to live the life I want. And depending on your age and what you want. But I'm a home service guy through and through. I'm blue collar. My mom was a realtor. My dad was a mechanic. We came from a really, really modest house in Michigan. Not, not low, low, low income, where we were, like, didn't have clothes to wear to school. But definitely, definitely not doing great. And I just love helping people, man, and I'm glad we get to do this podcast.

[Chris Lee]

Well, that's the cool thing. I think we all come from very similar backgrounds. Right. Daryl grew up in a double wide with eight kids. You know, my dad was a schoolteacher, mom was stay at home mom. Like, all of us really came from, like, basic essentials, right? We all had shirts on our backs and, you know, food on the table and good loving family or whatnot, but have all built something pretty, pretty amazing. You know, it's interesting what you're talking about. So, like, the whole premise of our new show with is with next level pros is that, like, no matter where you're at, there's always the next level. Right. Like, you always have the ability to level up. And frankly, like, success and happiness come from when you are leveling up, right. When you're plateauing or leveling down, like, no matter how much money, how much success you've had, like, that's stressful.

[Daryl Kelly]

Another. Another truth you spoke was problems, right. I remember thinking, I'm not good at business because I can't get rid of these problems. And then I went to Tony Robbins Business mastery event, and one of the biggest takeaways was you always have a new set of problems as you grow, New set of opportunities, new set of problems. And those are always changing. And once I understood that, it changed everything for me.

[Tommy Mello]

Changed your outlook. Yeah, you know, I. I just played a video to my entire company, 800 people, and it's called Bring the Fire. We do it once a month. And the video, I took 13 minutes, made it into three, Giuseppe edited it, and it said, everyone wants a great life. You want to fall in love, you want a great sex life. You want to have your faith. You want to have the best body. You want the red seated part when you walk in the room. But what heart are you willing to accept? What struggle are you willing to accept? Because studies show over and over again, none of these things come without their obstacles. Everybody wants the views. No one wants to take the hike.

[Chris Lee]

Absolutely.

[Tommy Mello]

And not a lot of people are cut out for this. Everybody says, I'm going to quit my 9 to 5 because I want to be an entrepreneur. But that comes through. The number one word that comes to mind is delayed gratification. People want the possessions, they want to show off to their friends. They want to keep up with the Joneses. One of my best things is, you will never save money. If you can't save money at $50,000 a year, good luck at 200, 300. Money really does become. They say money is not the. The love of money is the root of all evil. But the fact is that people secretly Love money. They love the attention. They love the Ferraris. They love showing out to their friends. In fact, I'm getting in the best shape of my life. I love walking in and people being like, what the hell is going on? But that's the main thing, though, is I feel incredible. Like, literally, like, I feel like I could. I could take on the world and this thing about faith, fitness and family. I always had the finance figured out, but I was missing the other three. And I was not only off balance, but I was, like, really tilted to one side. And now I'm just trying to fix it. And I'm. The more I work on me, literally, the more I work on me, the better I am for everybody.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy how, like, everything really, you know, trickles over to one. Discipline always trickles over the other, right. Like when you. Especially when you start getting your fitness in check and your relationships in check, right? Like, that helps you be a better. A better, you know, influencer on. On the side of the business, right. Or in your society or whatever it may be. And like, that's. That's really. I mean, the culture that we've always been about in creating, like when we were creating Soul Gen, it was always, like, focusing on the whole human approach and if we can actually develop these people more than just their financial aspect, more than just a paycheck, right? Like, I'll be better spiritually, help them be better physically or whatnot. Like, they. The loyal. The. The trust that was built within our organization is absolutely incredible. So, I mean, I think that's. That's probably one of the biggest keys that most business and entrepreneurs miss, right? Like, they're just about solving financial problems rather than the other aspects.

[Tommy Mello]

How did you get, you know, I'm curious, you guys, you basically said you guys are like soul mates. I mean, when you guys started in business. Tell me a little bit about your relationship.

[Chris Lee]

Yes.

[Tommy Mello]

Who handles what. How do you guys grew together?

[Chris Lee]

So it's interesting. And I. We always refer to. Well, I refer to Darryl as my work wife. Right. Like, we have to figure out how to work together the same way I have to work with my wife. Just no sex, right? Yep. And, you know, it's. It's been interesting. We've. We've known each other for a long time. We first met when I was, I think 13. Daryl was 15. His oldest brother married my oldest sister, so.

[Tommy Mello]

Wow.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, so that. That's where the initial introduction. But we didn't have, like, this immediate, like, connection. Connection of, like, best friends. Or anything like that. In fact, we didn't hang out, I think, what, six years later? Seven, eight. Eight years later.

[Daryl Kelly]

Quite a while later.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So you were 21, you were 23.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah, so I was 21. I come home off a two year mission, right. And. And Daryl was like, hey, dude, come sell with me. And immediately we got this like, really good flow as far as, like, balancing out each other. Right. Like.

[Daryl Kelly]

Well, I think that initially for me, what I. What attracted me to Chris was like, I was super ambitious and I would talk about things, and then all of a sudden Chris was talking about things in a bigger way, and I'm like, wait, I'm gonna talk about even bigger. And it was like this flow.

[Tommy Mello]

Push each other up.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Lee]

So, I mean, for the last, you know, almost 20 years, we've been doing business together in one aspect or another. We had two divorces along the way, which I think any good relationship has to go through hard times. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

Figure out how you're on your third marriage. No, I'm kidding.

[Chris Lee]

But yeah, the. I mean, we. We broke up from a business standpoint a couple different times. Like, didn't talk to each other. I think the longest point was what, 18 months or two years?

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah, it was about two years. And I think. And looking back, it was just a maturity thing. We didn't know how to communicate our differences. We didn't know how to, like, work through it. So we just. That's. That's what we did.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough having a partner in crime.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. And I think some of the struggles is like, I'm a big voice in the room. You know how it is.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, yeah. Me and you, like, pushing each other out. When I watched him on stage, I'm like. He starts walking out of the crowd, I'm like, it's my move.

[Chris Lee]

We got two alphas. Just, just. And so Daryl has some alpha in him. It's just not as crazy as me. And. And so I think some of the struggles over the time is like, I've. I steal a lot of the limelight, right. I'm the loud one. I'm the crazy one in the room. Even though Daryl, like, if I'm out of the room, Daryl is loud and crazy. Just, you know, it's. It's hard to compete with a Tommy or.

[Daryl Kelly]

I think. I think what's good is, is like working with people like you. It's like you guys are very extreme and like that. It's like an edge that you get from someone like you guys, right? And so for me, like, I feel like I have a lot of ambition, a lot of drive, a lot of vision. But I feel like with Chris, it gives me, like, that edge, that little bit more craziness that you just don't get from anyone else. And I think that's what I've been able to benefit from is, like, keeping Chris in a position where he's always, like, a little crazy in his thoughts and his ideas.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, the dreams. I'll tell you what, when I'm talking to my team, they're like, what's up, dude? Like, you don't dream like anybody. I'm dreaming, like, forget the solar system. Forget our galaxy. I'm dreaming about, like, every galaxy. Like, they're like, wait a minute, why aren't you happy? We just set a record. Record day, record week, record month, record quarter. And I'm like, I am happy. I really am. And I don't show it, right? And literally, Luke, my coo, talked to me yesterday. He's like, a lot of people take you. They don't know you. Like, I know you.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And you just bug in and you say, what's going on here? And I said, you're right. I should say, download me on this. Get. Catch me up, because. And I always take the technician's side because literally, I'm a technician at heart. Seven years in the field before I own the company. But I was also the tech. And I'm like, my dreams are not that crazy. And I told the guys I was talking to yesterday, I said, for some reason, most of my dreams come true. It's like, I manifest them, I reverse engineer them. And it's hard to work with people like us. It's very, very, very hard.

[Chris Lee]

Because they're like, we rub people raw in the wrong.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, yeah. And we're very rare. And it's bad. It could be very, very toxic. And it's important that we recognize this, because coming from a place of gratitude is hard sometimes, because this is. I'm always driving forward because I'm like, who cares if we fall? Get back up. And everybody's like, it's not time. We're not ready. I'm like, I don't care. But here's what I've learned recently. What if I sat with each one of my direct reports and went through and made it their idea and actually got their buy in? And when we sit in a room together, they say, yeah, we've talked about this. It's go time. Rather than just saying, hey, I got an idea. Let's go. They're like, you get a lot of ideas, you know, so I got to be careful to pull one off and put one in.

[Chris Lee]

And I think that's. Darryl's been my strategic advantage. I mean, it doesn't appear you've never had like a right hand guy, right? Like a.

[Tommy Mello]

Me and Adam were like, we were. We called it the TNA show. Tommy and Adam, he had equity. He did very, very well. He's got millions, tens of millions of dollars. It just, you know, this Cameron Harrell notion of double double of like certain people could help you double double.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

Adam was able to do whatever he wants to do, but it became. He became a gatekeeper. And I'll say I love the guy.

[Chris Lee]

We're still best of friends, but he's no longer involved.

[Tommy Mello]

He's no longer involved, right?

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. So for Daryl, Daryl's always kind of been my filter, right. Like, because as you pointed out, you know, it's. It's very easy for a guy that has our type of personality. Just like got this great idea, let's run, right? And so I go to Daryl, I'm like, dude, got this great idea. And right. He. He understands that like only like 1 in 20 we should actually go and implement.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Daryl Kelly]

I think what's also funny is just the, the kind of damage control, right. Chris comes in with a ton of energy and it throws people off. And sometimes people can misinterpret things so quickly.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

And so I feel like a lot of times I'm like, no, no, no, no. Or the other part of it is like, I'll, I'll institute or I'll put in a place, a new policy. And they. Because Chris is such a loud voice, everyone thinks Chris is the one behind everything. And so he always gets like the blame.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, yeah, dude, I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but yeah, in our organization, right. If something doesn't go right, it's my fault.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

It's a great position for me to be in. I'm never really.

[Tommy Mello]

That doesn't happen with me because I've kind of shielded myself as saying, listen, guys, I'm not going to do the firing. I'm not going to put together. I stated I stay away from things, but I'm like, I always say I live on Mars and I'm looking at the volcanoes, the earthquakes, the hurricanes, and I zoom in, but I zoom back out pretty quick. I'm not afraid to top grade. In fact, I had a meeting with my coo Three weeks ago, took him to my house. And I said, listen, man, I'm going to be quite frank. You're the bottleneck in this business right now. You got 10 direct reports. I want a whiteboard with you. I said, how many people are you micromanaging? I said, then we need to top grade those. And I said, I'm not trying to be. I said, you might be better as a chief revenue officer. And I wasn't a threat. I said, you're in it to win it. Right. I said, your best talent is creating revenue. You're the best sales guy on the team. You understand the best way to communicate these things to the techs. And he said, dude, he said, I'm going to go to work and I will have a plan within two weeks. And he shifted all kinds of things.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And he did the work. And luckily I have people like that on my team I could be really honest with, because I can't do that with everybody. They'd be broken.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And it's so hard. But I'm like, listen, man, I'm going to be like, I don't have time to worry about your feelings. I'm not trying to fire you. I'm not. You're a part of my team. You're not going anywhere. And I think people that really know me understand where I'm coming from. It's not this place of like, I'm better or you're better or it's like, what can we do together to win? And, you know, we're a team. We're not a family. Because guess what? I could get fired. The coach. I'm ab company. The coach can get fired if we lose. We lose enough games, we lose enough seasons. He gone.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And that's how it works. And we're all. And I don't feel that way. It would be very, very hard to get rid of me. I work three weeks on my contract to make sure that's almost impossible. Like, I'd have to really do something stupid.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

I gotta keep. Keep my. Keep my act together a little bit.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah, man. It's, you know, the. Over the last 20 years been. Been a pretty, pretty crazy experience growing. We've done everything. I know you've been in the garage door space, what, 14 years?

[Tommy Mello]

17.

[Chris Lee]

17. So it's kind of been your thing for a very long time. Right. Like the one thing saying no to pretty much everything along the way.

[Tommy Mello]

Yes to too many things. But I get. I realized that was. That's an ADHD Thing. And I think all of us have that entrepreneurial. And we say, man, that guy's flipping houses. I could do that. And then you take away from the one thing paying you the most.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Because there's times that you say, we have the power to do anything we put our minds to. What if we stayed focused on the one thing?

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, and I think there's so many different paths to success. Not one person, Right. Like, I can't line my path to success and say, like, this is the reason why for you or me or whatnot. And so, like, you. 17 years for us, it was like, we said yes to so many different things, so many different industries, so many different ideas for so many years until it was like, all right, let's take everything that we've learned, concentrate it into one, and just go, yeah. And. And it's amazing to your point, right. When you can say no to everything and yes to just one thing and just go deep and wide, it's. It's incredible what you can accomplish in. In a very short period of time.

[Daryl Kelly]

The question I have for you. What. What were some of the paradigm shifts that, like, transformed you from where you started to who you are today in your business?

[Tommy Mello]

Well, the number one thing is, is it's very rare you meet an entrepreneur that actually learns from their mistakes and doesn't make the same mistake twice. I was able to reflect and be like, that was dumb. And so many people. Like, the biggest thing by far is I've kind of put my arms in the air 150 times over again and said, I need help. And I have this ability to go find the best of the best, and I pay up. I don't discount. I buy. Like, I want to be bought from. So I've got. Right now, I got seven consultants I work with, and some of them are speaking coaches. I got the trainer. You know, I just say, like, I was on this podcast about two weeks ago in Vegas, and the guy says, I feel like you're in a time machine. And I said, the time machine is going to find people that are better at one thing. Like, the best of the best. They're known for this one thing. And I literally reflect and say, I'm not very good at this, and I don't want to be well rounded, but I want to be the best at marketing, culture, sales, and very, like, leadership. And I want to hire everything else, but I hire people smarter than me.

[Chris Lee]

Absolutely.

[Tommy Mello]

That's. The fear is like, what if. What if I hire this guy, and he takes my whole team and he starts to. I don't have that gene in me. Like, I'm not worried. If I train them, what if they leave? What if they stay? So I think the number one thing that's changed dramatically is I started becoming an avid reader. I started a podcast seven years ago. I started asking for help. Success leaves clues. I asked Service Titan who has the best conversion rate in H Vac? I fly my ass out there and visit them. I said, who has the best booking rate? Flew out to Memphis, Tennessee, two months ago, visited them.

[Daryl Kelly]

Who are you asking these questions to?

[Tommy Mello]

I'll go to Service Titan because they're my CRM and they've got the data. They'll make an introduction if the person allows us. Like, they got to say, sure, you could share my data and tell them I'm the best. And then, you know, they take my phone calls. Usually. If I want to find out who's the best at SEO, I'll search Roofing Repair Phoenix or H Vac Repair Phoenix, and then I'll see who's ranking organically number one. I'll do a couple of things Ahrefs. I'll say, how the hell do they do this? I'll knock on their door, I'll buy them all lunch. I'll say, can I talk to your VP of marketing? And they'll say yes, because I say, I'm not going to compete with you. I want to help you guys. We could be referral partners, and I come from a place of what's in it for them. That. That's my superpower is like, I have. I'm relentless.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

I don't care if you say no to me. I think that's a yes eventually.

[Chris Lee]

I think that's such a key to anybody that's listening to the show right now. Like, the relentless pursuit of education, improvement, right? Like, not settling with where you're at and just always looking for that next edge, that next ability to level up. Who knows more than me, right? Like, I think. I think the thing that I suffered from most in my first business that failed was thinking I knew everything and not going to other people for help. Right? Like, that's. That's where I struggled in my. In my 20s, right? I just thought I knew everything. I was. I was pretty intelligent, high iq, successful in everything that I had done up until that point. And I was like, because of it, when things were hard, I didn't go to anybody else. I just tried dealing with it, right. Instead of, like, going to a Tommy or a Daryl and be like, dude, help me. Like, I don't know what to do in this type of situation or how do I get through this, how do I improve, whatever it may be? I think that's, that's probably one of the most key things to anybody that's been successful.

[Daryl Kelly]

So, so was your transition into like finding coaches, was there an experience or.

[Tommy Mello]

Was there like a 2017 second podcast I've done? The home service expert. I meet this guy named Al Levy. He's like, hey, I live in Scottsdale, you're in Tempe. He goes, would you want to meet for lunch? I said, absolutely. I sit down with him. He had to be 65 at the time. And he just commandeered the whole conversation. But luckily I brought a notebook and I'm writing everything down. He's saying, and he goes, hey, young buck. He's like, you're the first guy I've ever met with to actually take notes. He's like, would you mind if I came and looked at your shop? And I said, I'd love for you to. And dude, he tore me a new asshole. He goes, let me see your manuals. He goes, I could have stole your whole warehouse with your own forklift. And there was no cameras, nobody in there. The garage was wide open. He goes, there's calendars on every wall. There's Google calendar.

[Chris Lee]

And at this point you guys are doing how much?

[Tommy Mello]

17 million.

[Chris Lee]

17 million, which is a respectable business, but ain't.

[Tommy Mello]

I wasn't keeping much of it. Yeah, that was revenues for vanity profits for, for sanity. And he says, I'll work for you, I'll work with you, but it's not going to be cheap. I'll consult you. He goes, but when I get done with you, this business is going to be very vanilla. There's going to be systems, processes, there's going to be manuals, there's going to be an org chart and a depth chart. I'm going to teach you the eight steps of delegation. And he goes, you're not going to be. You're the best firefighter I've ever met. He goes, the fires are going to be out and you're going to have a process. He went out with five of my technicians. He said, every one of your technicians, different sales process, different way of doing springs, different ways of doing rollers. They drove differently. There was. Everything's different. He goes, one guy's got a long ass beard, one guy's got tattoos on his face. Is there policies? And I'm like, well, not really.

[Chris Lee]

I just get it done.

[Tommy Mello]

And he's like, what's the dress code? What happens if your truck breaks down? What happens if a CSR doesn't show up? Do you have a depth chart that the dispatcher could step in? And so we worked for years together, and that's his book, the Seven Power Contractor. He's 71 now, and he's the best. If I didn't meet Al Levy and respect him, he walked in one day and I said, hey, have you read this book? And he goes, tommy, just stop right now. He goes, I'm not gonna tell you to stop learning, but until you implement my practices, he goes, I will fire you as a client. He goes, you turn your cell phone off when we're in the room together. You focus on what I'm telling you, and you implement these things, or we're not going to work together. And I said, you know, all right, Al. I used to start talking. He'd be like, stop. Let me finish. And I'm like. And we said it.

[Chris Lee]

We built.

[Tommy Mello]

We built manual after manual. And when things went wrong, he said, it's not in the manual. Put it in the manual. And he goes, you're not reading the manual every week. Go back to that. Two years into it, he showed me a picture of my truck. He took a picture. He put it in black and white. He goes, what pops out to you that you're a garage door company? You got Angie's List, Yelp, the bbb. He goes, you got eight things you do. Rollers, cables, bearings, crash doors, bottom, rubber. He goes, this is really bad. He goes, your brand sucks. He goes, your stickers don't look like your billboards. Literally. Your signatures are all different. When anybody emails me, he goes, every single thing. Your valve pack looks nothing like your clipper. There's no coordination at all. I said, so what do you want me to do? We're $40 million because I want you to rebrand. He goes, you called Dan Antonelli with kick charge. And I called Dan Antonelli. He's like, it's going to be 40 grand. And I'm like, 40. I'm like, I'm already successful. And Dan goes, I'm telling you right now, let me just build you a brand. I said, can my face be on the side of the truck? Because it already was. And there's a whole reason a story behind that. And he's like, these colors suck. The whole schematic sucks. And Dan built a new brand. We jumped. We became the most. We attracted affluent Clients, my guys still tell me the stories. When they showed up in that van with the right. Oh, by the way, all my shirts were different colors. They were just golf shirts with a logo. Al Levy said, it's going to be all black from now on. These don't fade. Al Levy did this, and I owe him a lot, man. I owe him a lot. And, dude, everything changed. The conversion rate went up. We started. We started becoming a brand. People started higher average tickets. They knew we were the best. They said, I know you guys aren't the cheapest, but you'll be here the same day and you'll cover your warranty. Everything changed. And Al did not know the financial world, so he called Alan Rohr, and they taught us a lot about finance. But I didn't have the right cfo. That was the other game changer. Getting the right cfo.

[Chris Lee]

Boom.

[Tommy Mello]

Bottom line, bottom line, bottom line, bottom line. Now we're at 25% of the bottom line because of that side. And by the way, I'm not the best at balance sheets. I got a master's degree in business.

[Daryl Kelly]

Well, what were you before, like, how much of a change was there?

[Chris Lee]

What margins?

[Daryl Kelly]

Your margin?

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, we lived a long time because I always blamed it. We're growing, we're growing, we're growing. I'm reinvesting in the company. I literally told everybody, yeah, who cares about the bottom line? We're growing, we're putting it back in. That's what I hear a lot of people say, we're putting it back in.

[Chris Lee]

Company.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, we're putting it back in. We're putting it back in. And Al goes. One day I called Al and I said, I got a home equity line to make payroll. I'm writing it. And he saw me writing checks from my home equity line back to make payroll.

[Chris Lee]

What year is this?

[Tommy Mello]

This is, you know, this is 2018, 2019.

[Chris Lee]

Crazy.

[Tommy Mello]

And I would never trim the fat. I say, we're going to need these guys. And he says, tommy, he goes, I'm pretty worried. And Adam comes to me and he goes, I'm pretty worried. And it was. I didn't realize people were stealing a lot of the parts.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

I didn't realize that we were totaling trucks left and right. I didn't realize any of these things. There was no. My insurance, I was double paying on leases. Nobody. Which nobody told me, and they were keeping the money. I mean, literally, I had guys ceiling doing side jobs left and right. The business was not. It was just. There was a shadow that I couldn't.

[Chris Lee]

See, you had a great revenue driving engine. And the backside was just.

[Tommy Mello]

Just a dirty. A mess dirty. And we fixed it. We started printing money. Keegan actually came into town, and he looks. And I got all my financials of every market, and he starts highlighting stuff. Stuff. And he looks at me and he goes, tommy, you need to close four markets today. And I go, dude, this just bass management. Like, I could turn it around. And he goes, tommy, look at me. You need to close these markets. Do a relocation package. I'm going to show you how to do it. They need to close today. You are bleeding so bad.

[Chris Lee]

All your profits were.

[Tommy Mello]

You would be at 19.8% if you close these four markets. I closed them that day. I mean, you talk about what could go wrong. Murphy's Law, like, I've had it hit me on the face a thousand times. But, you know, here's the deal. I'm glad it all happened because I'll never make those mistakes again, ever. Like, the lessons were not only hard, they were almost impossible.

[Chris Lee]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

And we. But I never wanted to quit. I never said, dude, I don't want to go to work today. Like, I'm done. I. I was a fighter. And I mean, a lot of people, you guys know this story. You're three feet from gold. You're. You're one step away, one decision away, one hire away from just making it through. But some people give up.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, dude, I think you're a great example of. So I think in business and a lot of guys are refused to do this, you either got to, one, have incredible partners or two, you got to hire incredible consultants, right? Like. Like, that is the only way to break through and get to the next level. Because everybody that's just trying to do it on their own, right, Based on their own IQ and everything else, right, they're going to make a lot of mistakes. They're going to have to take decades. Yeah, it's going to take.

[Tommy Mello]

And you'll get there, but you're going to be like, in a nursing home if.

[Chris Lee]

If you get there, right? Like. Like, if you're able to survive that long and continue to, you know.

[Daryl Kelly]

So let me. Let me ask you, Chris, obviously, I know your story, but, like, what were those. What was that paradigm shift? What was the transition or how did you level up?

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, I mean, for. For us, for me, it was. It was hiring the right people and partnering with the. Like, having Daryl at my side was. Was huge because he helped keep my ideas sane. Right? Like in. And I was able to bring all the good stuff. But at the same time, spending a million bucks on my personal education, getting the right coaches and the consultants going and spending four and a half years working for other people. Right. You're going to be talking with Todd later today.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

Todd is one of my, the greatest mentors. The funny thing is I didn't, I didn't even spend a ton of one on one time with Todd, like hardly any. But most of it was being in the room, seeing his strategy, seeing how he interacted with his leadership. Right. And, and there's a few different ways that you can invest in these type of mentors. One, you can go and work for him. That's what I did with Todd. Right. And I also watched from afar kind of seeing what he was doing when I wasn't working for him. So like, that was, that was a huge turning point in my career was studying Todd Peterson and the way that this guy does business. Like, I love, I think what you.

[Daryl Kelly]

About it, I think what you saw in Todd is like, dude, this guy's a visionary and this how visionaries operate. And you're like. And so you, you started to realize, like, I needed to operate.

[Chris Lee]

Exactly. And it aligned with my personality. Me and Todd have very similar type personalities. We both big dreamers and everything else. And I saw how he was utilizing his team to be able to go and execute an orchestrator.

[Daryl Kelly]

Orchestrator.

[Tommy Mello]

He didn't jump in and do the work, which is so easy to do.

[Chris Lee]

High leverage of management team and everything else. Right. Like all of us that are super successful at one point, we have to give up control. Right. Like, because we love the micromanagement at some point in our career because we're like, I can do this and I can do everything. Right. Like we. And so that was probably one of the biggest turning points in building Soul Gen was when I finally decided, you know, I'm going to surround myself with incredible people, give up control, and then.

[Tommy Mello]

I find myself saying, I want you guys to go build me a plan. Give me three options. I want you to give me the SWOT analysis on each of them and maybe I'll put a little curveball in there. And I'd like to see this and this. I like plan two, but let's bring plan three, this piece, to plan two.

[Chris Lee]

Absolutely.

[Tommy Mello]

You do the work. You guys make plenty of money. You got an equity incentive program which is profit units. It doesn't need to be me anymore. I want to walk in a room and be like, there's no fricking way I could Keep up with Chris and Darryl. These guys are just so much better at this one thing. That there are people in this company that I'm like, I don't stand a chance. So why even like. But. But I got to tell them, and I got to. You know what prompting is when you, like, go to ChatGPT.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

You got to ask the right questions. You got to make sure you're doing the right things you got. And they'll help us find the answers. And I don't think there's. I just think a lot of people are like, you hire people that just aren't at your level because you're afraid, or maybe you can't afford them. When I learned about an equity incentive program.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, game changer, dude.

[Tommy Mello]

I could attract anybody for the roles I want.

[Chris Lee]

I mean, that's exactly how we built Soul Gen. Right. Like, we. We had guys that had sold businesses for millions of dollars come and work for us for, like, a minimum salary to be having some equity upside. Right.

[Daryl Kelly]

Do you. You said prompted. I've never. I've actually never thought of that as a concept before. But, like, if you think of all relationships, like, the quality of your relationship with people is based off your prompting.

[Chris Lee]

The questions you ask. Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

And it's just like, Chad, gbt, if you ask a bad question, you get a bad answer.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, yeah. It's true. It's a skill. I mean, people are going to school right now. Kids, the whole classes, the whole education is called prompting. That's the newest thing in education. There's a guy send out cards. He's out of Utah. He was the first big speaking I did. He wrote a book called Prompting. And it's so true. I got a question for both of you guys, and I want you guys to go back and forth.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Because you guys might take each other's answers. So I'm going to do it this way. So you'll get Soul Gen. Yep. And I want you each to go back and forth three each of the biggest pieces. And a lot of it's hiring and, you know, the marketing strategy. But what was. Let's start with the successes. And it could be you learned from a mistake. But what were the things that really drove growth, culture, revenue? And if you had to do three each and go back and forth?

[Chris Lee]

Well, you know, it's. I mean, there's. There's a lot of things, but one was the strategy of generating leads online. Right. Like, that was something that, prior to us doing it, there really wasn't any. There was people Only in the SEO game. Right. Google, pay per click type stuff. But nobody was doing the education side of the marketing, which was Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, that type of lead.

[Tommy Mello]

That's where you guys figured it out on the social side of the education.

[Chris Lee]

Yes, exactly.

[Tommy Mello]

And what would you say was your biggest channel out of YouTube, Facebook or Insta?

[Chris Lee]

Facebook was always about 40 to 50% of our business. Like when we were running a $2.2 million budget a month. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

Like half of that was going to meta Facebook.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah, just. Just Facebook not including Instagram. And so, you know, like that, that was our really cutting edge because we initially we did what we called web to home, where we generate the lead online, go and sell it in the home. And then eventually we scaled it out through a virtual sales floor.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

And we did that pre Covid. Right. And so like the fact like we had a lot of lucky moments in building Soul Gen, which is just us taking enough risk and different things. And one of those was we launched our sales floor, our virtual sales floor, November 2019. And so by the time five months later, when Covid hit, we had a 25 man sales floor and we were prepped and ready to be able to just go and scale through where everybody else was like panicking. Anybody that was in the door to door world or the, or the count over the table type sale, they're like, what do we do? People won't let us in their homes. Right. Like especially in some of the more liberal states.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh really?

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

I mean, Washington, Oregon, like these are places.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh yeah.

[Chris Lee]

These are places that literally people are quadruple masking. Right. They want ten foot social distancing. Like it was just crazy.

[Tommy Mello]

Can't even go into a coffee shop.

[Chris Lee]

Right, right. And so like those were like having that set up was one of the biggest things. And then from day one, the you.

[Tommy Mello]

Can'T give Darryl everything. You guys gotta alternate.

[Chris Lee]

Go ahead.

[Daryl Kelly]

I would say I think a big piece too is that we always were thinking ahead. We always had a vision. We're always sharing the vision. So anybody who came into our business wasn't there for that opportunity. They were always there for what was something greater.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

And I think that was what built our culture. I think that's what brought in the right partners. I think that's what also gave us buy in from employees. Because there was so much craziness. I mean when we were in the garage and we had what, 50, 53 employees? 53 employees. You had to buy in to what we were doing because it was Just smashed in there. And obviously we were building a building at the time and so people understood what was going on. But chasing that dream was always. Everyone was bought into that.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

And if they weren't, they didn't last long.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. So, I mean, culture was extremely on purpose by design up front from day one. Right. The way that we were creating trust, the way we were creating transparency, the vision, the core values, all the things right from day one. And many of the things that I learned from Todd Peterson. Right. And being a part of, like everybody in the Vivint industry, this home security automation that everyone always called it the orange Kool Aid. Right. If you're drinking the orange Kool Aid, it's because Todd was the master orchestrator of culture. And so we went and took his blueprint and just, we applied it and just thought big and crazy. And you know, the cool thing was the first couple of years when we were operating out of my garage, like, the vision was so crazy. And people walk into a garage, people think people are just like, dude, this is nuts. Like, why would I believe you? Like, we're sitting in a garage. It's.

[Tommy Mello]

That's a hard sell.

[Chris Lee]

That's a hard sell. But that, that actually made it even better.

[Daryl Kelly]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

Is because it was so extreme.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

People either had to like jump on board completely with the vision or be like, there was no in between. It wasn't like, oh, I got a comfy office space to be able to operate. And if I'm committing to coming and sweating in 85 degrees in A. In a garage, it's. The only reason is because I believe in what this idiot keeps preaching every single day.

[Tommy Mello]

You're like, you've heard of Steve Jobs, right? Heard of Steve Jobs of solar? Well, started in a garage.

[Chris Lee]

Well, it was funny. Like I had this picture, it was like four different garages. It showed the Google garage, the Facebook garage, and we had the soul gen garage. And we would always be like, look, this is us. Like, this is what we're building. This is how. And so like people would get buy into it and just get excited about it. Even though, like from all outside perspective, there's no reason they should have bought it.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, that's the ability. Listen, that. That's sales 101 is how to win friends and influence people. Get people to buy into your dream. Or us entrepreneurs, we really are good at that. We're really good. Like, I'm an optimist. I don't care if the cup is empty, I make it half full. And like but people are like, dude, that's not even real. Like, there's no way that's possible.

[Chris Lee]

You're not going to another galaxy.

[Daryl Kelly]

So here's, here's something interesting, though. When I, When I grew up, that it was common to say, you know, be a man of your word.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

But I realized, like, as a visionary, you can't be a man of your word. You gotta be a man of your vision, right? Because if you're a man of your word, like, you've got to know how to, how to fulfill on what you're saying. And as a visionary, you don't. You're just like, we're going into this darkness and at the end of it, I'll tell you what's there.

[Tommy Mello]

You have.

[Chris Lee]

You do have to have an idea, right? You have to have a road map of, like, this is how it's going to be possible. But you don't have every single detail correct.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, you know, I work with Dan Martel, buy back your time. And he goes, one thing I've realized about you is your word is your bond. You shake somebody's hand. But what if I told you what I want you to practice is not breaking your word, but undoing your word. If you told the neighbors five years ago you were going to mow their lawn every week, he goes, find him a replacement, pay them some of the money back and get out of that.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

He goes, sometimes what I feel like, Tommy, is like, you're the. That your idea of yourself is like, my word is my bond. If I shake your hand, it's paved in gold. But what made sense for Tommy two years ago, you need to renegotiate these things and do it fast and not feel like you're letting people down. He goes, I just did it last week. He goes, I promised this guy I would speak at his event. He goes, dude, the event's 300 people. I gotta travel. He's like, I had to renegotiate it. I got a great sub. He's like, I told him straight up then, guys, if you ever want to come visit, I'll make it up to you. You come out to Kelowna. Usually I charge a lot for this, but he goes, practice that. Become good at that, because that's going to be your biggest weakness. It's not that you're a liar, it's not that you're not morally correct, but you need to work on that, because that's a great statement that you said is like, you're right, sometimes we need to pivot. And I'm not trying to let people down. That's the worst feeling in the world, like, letting somebody down. But at the end of the day, like Al always told me, Ali, he's like, you just got to be able to still have, especially with family, like, you still got to be able to have Thanksgiving together. And like, people are not. Like, if you've got a good reasoning behind it, they're not, like, in tears, you say, listen, this is why. And they're hard conversations. There's a great book called Fierce Conversations. And it's hard to have these conversations, and I don't like to have them with everybody. The close five is by people. I feel bad for my mom, my sister, my dad, because they've had the fierce. I've been fierce with them. So what is another reason that you think so?

[Chris Lee]

Let me actually jump in and add to this. Giuseppe, we need a little water.

[Tommy Mello]

Water to me.

[Chris Lee]

So. No, you're good. So I think one of the big turning points is when we got really clear on KPIs and the reporting. Right. Like, that is, one, I think, fundamental to any business. But two, it was so, like, so we went in 20, in 2020 or 2019, we did 32 million. 2020, we did 34 million. It wasn't great growth. But what during that year, we set foundation from a management perspective. Like the management team that we put in place the reporting, the KPIs. Right. Like, we set this foundation in 2020. That was absolutely phenomenal. And in. In between 2020 and 2021, we went from 34 to 89 million. Right. We tripled our revenue and much of that. And then the next year from 89 to 233 million. And much of that is because we were reporting real time at, like, to this day, like, I still have some equity in that business. I get a text message every time a deal is generated. And it's like this full report, like, this is how the lead was generated. This is. This is where we're pacing. And so we created this way of competition and recognition and accountability. Right. That just drove the business to go and level up continuously. And so then we would. We would set these goals or these projections, and every single hour we'd be able to measure, like, are we on pace, off pace? Right. Like, and. And. And that's where I think things really became crazy. Right. It was just with this level of accountability.

[Daryl Kelly]

And I think part of that foundation was we always protected the margin. Yeah. Because I don't know how many businesses they. They Are they start growing and they realize they have no money.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. So they're not scalable, especially in solar. I see that all the time.

[Chris Lee]

Their model isn't scalable.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

Like they build it for today, not for tomorrow.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Daryl Kelly]

And so I think being able to scale with margin allowed us to continue to grow. You know, we had 300% growth year over year, two years in a row. If we didn't have the margins we had, there'd be no way.

[Tommy Mello]

And you know, solar is a tough business, man. Keep going.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah, well, I was just going to say, and it was really important for us to make sure our employees understood that because they'd be up competing with people that were charging a lot less.

[Tommy Mello]

Give it away. Half.

[Daryl Kelly]

Half the price.

[Chris Lee]

Right. We would be priced at 60 grand and the competitor would be at 30 for the same system. Right. And to be able to help these guys see why that was, that was necessary. Right. Like, why Allowing us to be able to not cut corners, focus on the customer experience, be in business long term, have a healthy profit margin that's going to be able to go and scale growth. Right. Like, and so those are levels of like our culture and transparency where just people knew what our margins were and everything else and they were fine because they were bought into the long term. And the vision.

[Tommy Mello]

I've got this open book policy. Everybody knows exactly what we do, day, week, month, down to the lowest level. I don't mean low level, but just I'd say, you know, the front line.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

And people are like, why would you share that? People are going to know how much money you make. I'm like, yeah, we make great money. I'm like, this is a business. My clients want us to make great money. They want us to be around in 10 years. My vendors want us to make great money. And we take care of our clients, we take care of our vendors, and we take care of our people. You know, there's, we give equity down to the installer technician level. And I, I said this. I'm like, guys, I want you to be millionaires. I want you to be bought in. But what's in it for me? I want you to think, what's in it for. When you're a leader, you should say, what's in it for me? From the co worker standpoint, the people that work for you.

[Chris Lee]

Yep.

[Tommy Mello]

And this, this idea is if they're winning. So when we sit down, I want to know, Chris, what are your goals? What are your dreams? What do you want out of life? Like, you want to Buy a house. You want to take your kids on this big trip each year, you reverse engineer those goals. And I'll say, Chris, if we just increase your conversion rate and you worked with this guy for one week, sounds like a step back, but you would hit your goal. You'd buy your house in 2025 instead of 2027. Like, doesn't that, don't you want that? And sometimes you look at their face and they're like, that's not really my dream. Like, literally, that's what my wife wants to do. And you say, you really got to peel the onion back and figure out what their dreams are set about. Performance improvement plan. How can you get them to buy in if they don't buy in? You know, I always say, listen, I'm going to give you the opportunity to go work for my competitor.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. So what you're, you're bringing up like some solid points that we definitely implement in our culture. Like one, there is no loyalty in business, only trust. Right. Like, a lot of business owners fail on the side of they try building this loyalty. And what, what is loyalty? It's, it's like you just work hard for me because you're part of the family. It's not where trust is like, you're going to bring value and I'm going to make sure that you receive value. Right. Like, I'm going to provide opportunity, a roadmap. You, you're going to have long term buy in.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

And the second that that's violated, I expect you to go work for the competitor versus a loyalty type relationship. It's more of like a slave and a master, right?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

And it's like, you just do this because I said so, not because, not because there's benefit, not because there's anything else. Right. Just do it because I cut your paycheck. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

And that is the worst management ever.

[Chris Lee]

And the thing I always tell people, I said, look, if you're building this loyalty type of relationship, you have a slave and a master. And what happens when a slave wants to leave? They leave in the middle of the night. You're not going to get the opportunity to retain these type of people because they're just going to leave. Your culture versus a trust culture. Trust culture. The guy's going to come and say, hey, look, I got this opportunity. He's being presented to me down the street. But I know you've always had my best interest. What do you think? Should I, should I take it? Should I like. And that's the type of culture we always tried to foster where. And because of. We never lost our top players because they knew that if there was a better opportunity for someone else, we expected them to go and take it. Right. And we encouraged them to go and take it. And so our job as business owners was always leveling up and making sure that we can provide enough opportunity that is going to give these guys roadmaps to be with us long term.

[Daryl Kelly]

So I appreciate your view on your employees, but I guarantee it didn't start that way.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

So, like, how did. How did that transition happen? Or how did you.

[Tommy Mello]

Covid. Covid was a big one. When I didn't know that, we heard about this coronavirus, and everybody's like, corona. Like, you know, we didn't know. And then people started dying. It's all over the news. And it was a really hard day because we started having clients and we didn't. I didn't know if it was going to kill off half the population. I just knew, no matter what, this company was going to survive. And this guy Tyler walks into my office and he goes, hey, man, you don't look so good. He's like, everything's going to be okay. He's like, you know, my wife makes really good money. She makes more than I do. He goes, I don't expect anything in return. You don't have to pay me back, but why don't you cut my pay in half? Wow. This is a technician. And I just kind of looked down. I said, we don't need to do that. I said, we're still fine. And the next. There was a line, and one of the gals walks in. In the call center and says, hey, why don't you take all my pto? I don't need it. Just if anybody's sick. And people just started coming into my office and just not complaining, just offering me this. And I really reflected and I said, I gotta. I love these people, but I gotta become a better leader. I need to work on me. Cause if they're willing to do that for us, I need to do way more. I need to have a dream so big that everybody else's dream could fit inside and we could accomplish that. And, you know, there's this book called the Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. And he wrote down 100 things he wanted in the perfect wife. He literally wrote down, you know, the greatest mother and every single feature. And. And he reads this list and he's going through it and he goes, I can never pull a chick like this. So we wrote down 100 things he would need to become to be worthy of such a great partner.

[Chris Lee]

Love it.

[Tommy Mello]

And so I needed to write down 30 things that I would need. I didn't do a hundred, but I wrote down a great communicator. Like, very. Like, I wrote down all these things that I needed to become to be worthy of such great people on my team. And, you know, I always thought I tried, but that was a rude awakening of, like, whoa, dude. Like, these people are actually not only bought in, but they got your back no matter what. Like, they're gonna go to war with you. And it's a great feeling, man. And I'll tell you, like, that we made it through that. We got the PPP money, went straight into marketing, and that just exploded us. And, you know, we've all got these stories of, like, the business was doing good, but it went to, like, excellent. And now I feel like we're making history, and I'm just not done yet. I'm like, well.

[Chris Lee]

And the crazy thing is the amount of time that that happened. We're only talking three, four years.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, right. Not that long ago.

[Chris Lee]

Like, and I think that's important for any listener that's trying to build their business or whatnot, Scale it up. It's like, if you just apply these correct principles and do it repeatedly, it doesn't take long. Right. And there's a lot of us, Tommy included, that have struggled for years to get to that point.

[Tommy Mello]

And.

[Chris Lee]

But once it clicked, once it worked, you know, I mean, the level of scale, the compound effect becomes real.

[Tommy Mello]

It's true. And I'll tell you guys, this is a little hint for the listeners, is then I'll go back to Al Levy. And I've had a lot of consultants. There's a lot of great people, people I've had in my life. Al said, what I'm going to show you how to do is no longer be a slave to your workers. He goes, I don't want you to recruit anybody because you pay more anymore. You don't need to find people with bad habits. He goes, we're going to show you how to make homegrown badasses. And he goes, you're going to find great personalities, and you're going to teach them the skills. Before I would just say, I'm just going to pay you more. I'll pay you higher percentage, higher hourly, Whatever it was, those people are willing to go for the next $10.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yes.

[Tommy Mello]

And so we built homegrown loyal badasses that make a Lot of money. And all I did was listen. And I said it. You, I said, chris, you don't believe in, in these rollers, do you? You think there's some better out there? And he goes, yeah, the double Z bearing, lifetime self lubricating. I go, where do we buy them from? Let's bring them in. This guy started selling rollers on every single job because he believed. So then I created this policy. If you find a better product that I get at mass scale, we'll bring that product in. And we have options. We don't give ultimatums. We give choices. And when they actually had a say. When you listen to, I'm sure Henry Ford listened to the assembly line to make it way better. When you start listening and say it instead of saying, no, no, no, we're working on it. We're behind a desk. You guys are in the field. We know better. No, we don't. No, we don't listen to the people fighting, the boots on the ground. They're the guy sweating in 140 degrees. They're the guys going out zero degrees in Minnesota. So sometimes my management hates it.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And I don't like to call management. My coaches, my coaches hate it because they're like, why do you always listen to them? And I'm like, they're not complaining. They're coming up with solutions. If we just listen.

[Chris Lee]

You know, you, you brought up an incredible principle that we taught. We talk about don't, don't price yourself to impress others, right? And that goes for what you pay and what you charge, right? Because the, it's the exact equivalent what you, what you charge. If you're trying to be the cheapest, all you're doing is trying to buy them by discounting, right? To get the next customer and they will go for the next person that's that much cheaper.

[Tommy Mello]

You made it about price.

[Chris Lee]

You made it about price. And the same thing goes for employees, right? Like as you said, like when you make it all about compensation from a, from a financial, they'll go for the next 10 bucks or whatever else. And it's like that is. That is one thing that so many people get wrong. Pricing their product correctly and paying their people correctly and realizing that you compensate way more than just monetarily, you can compensate them in culture and opportunity so much. Like so much value.

[Tommy Mello]

Money is irrelevant. There's been study after study after about $74,000, it's not irrelevant, right? But it's not as big. If you could meet your financial needs, a basic car, put Clothes on your kids backs. Eat good. There's so many more important things, especially in this new generation, is they want to be part of something, they want to be involved, they want to get trained, they want to know what's going on.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

It's not like the baby boomers that were just like, I'll go to work.

[Chris Lee]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

One of the things you brought up, and I think this was also contributed to our success, was the homegrown salespeople and technicians. And technicians. And I think, Chris, you should talk about this because we decided like we didn't want industry people in our business, we wanted to create them.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. I mean that was, that was probably one of the biggest moves from a strategic standpoint that we did well, one that we owned our own business, we were never going to fulfill for anybody else. Right. Like if you wanted to come, like there was sales organizations all the time coming and saying, hey, will you just do our installs? And like that was a big, like all the time. And we got approached six, seven times a week by sales organizations. That was a big no. The other one as Daryl's talking about is like, we do not hire industry people. We don't, because industry people are trained up incorrectly.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

There's a lot of terrible business owners, a lot of bad cultures like everything else. And these people become entitled a hundred percent. Like they're coming in and saying, well, I did this, this and this at this organization, so you owe me this based on my resume. Like, screw you, I don't owe you jack. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

Like, and so meritocracy versus tenure versus what you've done in the past, you need to prove yourself every day, just like I do, just like every person here.

[Chris Lee]

And so the cool thing is we never, not one of our salespeople had any experience selling solar. Zero. Right. And so we train them. Like some of them had other experience. Right. They sold cars, they sold this or that or the other. But it was like, man, if you were trained up in the door to door entitled industry, you know, Utah based group, like, we didn't want any, any part of you. And so then we were taking these just raw, hungry kids that had great personalities that were making 14 bucks an hour doing something.

[Tommy Mello]

How old were they?

[Chris Lee]

I mean, most of them in their low 20s.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Daryl Kelly]

You gotta understand though, Tri Cities is a small town, right? So it's like there's no sales force. There's not a big sales force out there to pull from. We had to create.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, we created these people. Like literally we're Taking people from the local coffee shop that are like playing barista while they're going to college.

[Tommy Mello]

Did you find a honey hole? Did you? Like, I, I know like some people say enterprise discount tire, like was there like this, man, if we get. It could have been a server from a certain type of restaurant. It could have been a, you know.

[Chris Lee]

For, for us it was all about like personality assessment, disc assessment, right. Like if we could go find high D, high eyes, right? Like the, the dominant personality. As Tony Robbins says, he doesn't, he doesn't hire any salespeople without a D type of personality. You know, that dominant personality was always a winner for us. And so we bring these guys in and it. Regardless of what their background is, didn't matter if they had a D personality, we could shape them into a salesperson and we would put them through incredible boot camps, right? Like, there's guys that, so to this day that now work for other organizations because we're no longer a part of things that are like, man, that boot camp was the foundation to all of my success. Right. Like we put them through a two week, just rigorous training stuff that we had learned knocking door to door for many years and become masters of the sale and they influence.

[Tommy Mello]

Robert Chadini. Yeah, I got a question.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

I had a guy call me yesterday and he was asking me about service Titan. Very, very successful roofer. And he said, he said, I think, Tommy, next year, I think by the end of the year, I'm gonna do a deal. And. And he said, I'm not going to do PE because I've heard the horror stories. I think I'm going to do strategic. And I go, you only hear horror stories, but you don't hear all the great stories. There's a partnership fit. I got lucky. And by the way, my pe, not everything they've done worked perfectly. But as the founder, you got to take some of the heat. You got to buy it. You got to realize these are financial engineers. If they could do what you could do, they go do it. They don't make as much money as we make as founders or in the business. So I take a lot of heat for myself to say I'm going to listen to them. They make a lot of valid points. But what is your take? I know there's some things you wish worked out differently, probably both of you, and I know I don't know how much you're at liberty to talk about.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, we can talk.

[Tommy Mello]

But what is your take on just selling your business rolling equity? And what would you have done differently and how would you have acted different? What are some of the things you want to change?

[Chris Lee]

Absolutely. So I think every entrepreneur should go and experience at least once. Right? Like, like going through the experience is a fantastic thing. Right?

[Tommy Mello]

Going I lost a little bit of hair.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, fantastic is a, interesting way to determine. You know, it's, it's tough, right? It's, it's grueling, you know, very long, intensive.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's worse than a prostate exam.

[Chris Lee]

Yes, yes. I mean, rubber glove to the extreme and, but to have gone through it, you learned so much and you can bring so much to any other entrepreneur. Like this is how what you could do, what you expect. This is how I would have done it differently. Right, right. Like we would have got the way we would have pegged our deal would have been at like the trailing 12 at the time of close. You know, we would have, we got.

[Tommy Mello]

A lot more money, we would have.

[Chris Lee]

Got a lot more money out of, out of the deal. You know, but if I were to do it again, I'm not sure I would go the PE route just because I've already checked that box. I think I've shifted into the more of like hold phase. Right. Just long term, nice sized chunk of equity in different businesses that I'm a board member of and can influence, but don't have these, you know, pe. You know, you've been, you've been very lucky. Like, and we thought we were lucky, you know, at first, but became increasingly difficult to work with and everything else. But, but yeah, you know, had, if I had to do it over again, we would have negotiated a little bit better of a deal. I think, I think we could have got more money. But at the same time, looking back.

[Tommy Mello]

Would you have rolled more or less and did you go through it formal process where you sat down with a bunch of different.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, yeah, we went through a formal, formal process. I would have probably rolled a little bit less, knowing what I know about the private equity group.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

And you know, so that, so that's.

[Daryl Kelly]

That'S interesting, I think, to echo some of the sentiment. Like one of the things you gotta realize is like you do lose control when you have a partner like a pe. I mean, they come in with a complete, completely different set of motives. And so like the idea that things are going to operate, continue how they are. I mean, they will until they need to change things.

[Tommy Mello]

They will. I'll tell you guys a little. The hard truth is until the performance goes down, like I think most PE Groups are like, they got a five to seven year stint and they're like, if it's not broken, don't fix it. But I'll tell you this, I know a lot of guys, you get, you know, 10 million, 20 million, $50 million. The guys that get those checks, they're not, they're building a house, they're driving a Lambo, they're taking their. They've done the work they need to, their families need to enjoy it. So they're not all there.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And so I think that if you go to a meeting, especially in the first year, and you're not prepared and you don't have the answers, and you're late and you're not. And there's like, you see some performance gaps. They're like, that's the, that's a double edged sword for PE is like, we're gonna give this person all this money. Are they as motivated still? So I think there's their side too, for sure. And I'm not saying, like, look, I've realized I just flipped the page and I said, go back to work. And people are like, you're the same dude. I'm like, I know, because quite frankly, I don't. I, I won't say I'm an imposter, but it's not that I'm not worth the money, but it's like, I never wanted it to change me. I know people that have changed, like, ooh, the filet mignon. And I'm like, and I order filet mignon. But the point is. And I always ordered it. But the point is like, I'll never let money change me. And I've seen money change people, and I've seen it destroy people. I've seen people afraid to hang out with certain people because now they, these friends come back into your life, this family comes back into your life because they know you hid it.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And it literally ruins people. They don't know how to deal with it. And I'm like, you know, I like, Mr. Mr. Wonderful says, if you come to me about an investment or any money, I give you a one time gift. It's not a lot of money. And I make you sign paperwork saying, you're never allowed to come to me again. Yes, ever.

[Chris Lee]

Or I love his tip.

[Tommy Mello]

And the deal is like, dude, I don't feel any anxiety or stress from family. They're welcome to come to my house. They see, it's a marvelous house. It's a beautiful house. I bought my house. I lived in a small apartment Actually, the technicians stay there. Mine's a thousand square feet, three bedroom, tiny kitchen. Every one of my buddies, very, very successful. They came and stayed there. They're like, what the hell? I'm like, dude, it's close to work. I own houses. And the thing was, I bought a big house because there's one thing you can't buy, and that's experiences, right? This allowed me to have my dad's 70th birthday, you know, Bree's niece's third birthday, my mom's 70th birthday. This allowed me to be around my closest people, play Big Buck Hunter and Golden Tea when I want, and do fun stuff and have pool parties. So I looked at it as I'm buying a way to spend time. And you can't buy time, but you can make the most out of it.

[Chris Lee]

Absolutely. You can leverage time, though. You can buy people's. Buy people's time.

[Tommy Mello]

You could buy a lot of time. You know, I realized from buy back your time. I work with Dan Martel. He goes, he goes, tommy, let's just go over what you got in Goldman Sachs. And I told him, and he goes, what do you think your worth is right now with the 50% you rolled? And we did. We kind of analyzed what I make per hour. And he goes, how much time do you spend driving? And we went through. Did this kind of a map of the time. And he goes, do you do your landscaping? I'm like, no, I don't. I did that for too long. And I'm allergic to grass. And we go through everything. I do. He goes, how much do you like cooking? Does Bri love to cook? Is that like her thing? And I'm like, not really. So he's like, it's not that you deserve it or not. It's not that you're not humble. But he's like, I just. You bought back 15 hours and you're thinking in dollars instead of percentages. He's like, I've done the math on your interest. He's like, you don't touch anything. He's like, you're buying time. And he's like, tell me about your ea. And he's like, is she capable of sitting in on meetings and preparing the hour long meeting to get you back 45 minutes to make it a 15 minute meeting? And he's like, show me your priorities. What are you gonna do next year? Like the great big things with your family? And like. And he repositioned and prompted it differently. He repositioned the way I look through my lens. And all of a sudden I look through his lens and I said, this is the right thing to do. Because before I was like, this is douchey dude driver. And like, he's got this trainer, right? This guy's jacked, like, really jacked. And he tells his trainer, he goes, why don't you take your shirt off and post on, like, social media and like, show yourself working out? It's inspiring. And he goes, dude, that's so stupid. He's like, I hate those guys. And he's like, well, who's that pitcher right there? He goes, you know who that is? It's Arnold Schwarzenegger. And he goes, what picture is that? He's got one of the years he won Mr. Olympia. He goes, why do you have that picture? He goes, dude, it's motivating as hell. Look at him. He goes, you don't think that you'd motivate other people? And now the guy posts online and he actually helps people improve their life. It was just seeing through this different lens. And that's what Dan's helped me to do because I had this exact lens, perfect for the business. I didn't have it at home. I didn't know. I said, I don't chef. Like, that's. I don't need a chef. Then I found myself ordering Uber eats every night. Not eating healthy. Now it's hard not to eat healthy because it. If I don't like something, I'm like, make something different, you know? And it sounds. It does sound a little douchey, but it's not. It really isn't. It's just a way. And by the way, I invited a lot of people over and it's not like selfish. I don't think it's. It's. No, I'm being more for my people, dude.

[Chris Lee]

I think, I think you're one of the most generous, loving, non douchey people for where you could be douchey, right? Like, you're in a position where you could clearly be douchey, right? Like, you ride off into the sunset with the money and be like, screw you, team. Thanks for the, you know.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, it's been a fun life. I found a great leader. I'll see you guys later. And a lot of times this happens, right?

[Chris Lee]

Yeah. Yeah, man. I think, you know, transitioning in business, like, everybody has different experiences. There's so many different PE groups, strategics or whatnot. And to each his own. I think the hardest thing, I don't know if you experienced this is just like allowing somebody else in to the baby that you've created.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

You know, I think that that was probably the hardest thing for me and that I did not realize would affect me as emotionally as it did. Right. Like, this is the baby that literally was birthed out of my garage. Right. Like, this is the thing that I have built strategically, on purpose, by design. And now there's other people coming in calling shots that I don't agree with. Right. And that's. That's probably the most difficult thing about letting go.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, here, here's the thing. These guys don't know how to market like I market. Marketing is probably the fundamental thing that I've done very well.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And I told them from the get go. We were very clear. I'm in control of marketing. I will make the phone ring off the hook. And by the way, marketing is recruiting as well. So you let me handle this. You guys can put your financial engineers, your FP and A team, tell me where we're losing money. Tell me about accounts receivable, Tell me all the analysis you guys do. I'm good with that. There's certain things. And I, quite frankly, I go to war. I go to war with some of these guys. And they say, if you feel that strongly and you're that passionate about it, we know it's going to work. And you know what? They always remind me, we didn't bet on A1. We didn't. We don't care about A1. They do care. They said, we bet on you. They remind me all the time, this is your baby. We bet on the best of the best. But what does that do to me? It puts all the onus on me.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

It makes every decision I think about that harder. It says, is this going to grow the company in the profit? Is this going to take care of the people? I asked Ara, the founder of Service Titan, this is a really interesting question. I said, you got a lot of investors, dude. You also have the trades that you're loyal to. You got a fiduciary responsibility right here. You got a moral and ethical obligation over here. How do you do that? And he said, well, take for example, you, Tommy. He goes, we didn't allow anything H vac, plumbing or electrical in. He goes, I had investors back then. He goes, I spent 100 grand sending the success managers out there because I bought into you. And of course the investors are going, why are you spending 100 grand on a garage door company? But you told me you were going to take over the industry and you did everything you said you were going to do. You've brought in 500 companies to service Titan. You got another guy like Ishmael Horrible not using the software right, bashing us all over the Internet. We. We spent six figures on him to get him fixed. We got another 500 accounts from him. So I go and I fix things and I take chances and I make them a good return. I'm not always right, but I do the right thing for the contractor and it's the right thing to do. And I was like, dude, I didn't even prepare you for that question. It was the best answer I could ever imagine. And so after I left there at Service Titan, I started thinking a lot about my one star reviews. Because now I used to say, let's get 17 more. Of course you're going to get bad reviews. Now I'm like, what can we do to make that a learning opportunity to turn that person into a raving fan? Because ours, every story, he said, all my haters that got on a service site and complained became raving fans when we fixed it. We were committed to excellence. Those were the hardest people. Those were the high Ds, those were the. That weren't going to buy in. And you know, the fact is, I'm on a podcast right now. I was on a podcast earlier today that is like my counselor, that's my therapist, right? Is I get to ask questions and I get. I got a lot of stuff. Like, I loved trailing T. Trailing 12 at the time of close. That's a good one because you lose a few months sometimes.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yes.

[Chris Lee]

Well, dude, it was crazy. I mean, we were told we were going to be able to close in 30 to 40 days. And it took 120 days. And that additional 90 could have been.

[Tommy Mello]

An extra million bucks. Eida, bro.

[Chris Lee]

Not like it was an extra 10 million of EIDA. And trailing 12.

[Tommy Mello]

That's freaking nuts. So on a multiple basis, guys, you know what's interesting is I got a buddy of mine, I won't go into detail, but he calls them Covid babies. I've been doing this 17 years, but we really started to really take off. But I'll tell you this, as I'm sitting there with aro, who's got 12,000 companies, he goes, you're one of the only unicorns right now in this. This is a recession. He goes, we're in a recession.

[Chris Lee]

He said, thank goodness for a half percent cut yesterday, baby.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, let's go. But the fact is, people are like, who do you want to win the election? I'm like, of course I have a side I'm taking. But I'm like, I don't care. I'm going to win either way. I'm like, I don't care. Because if it turns into a buyer's market or a seller's market, I'm winning. I'm going to. If it turns into a buyer's market, I'm going to buy real estate cheap. I'm going to buy companies for cheap. And if it turns into a seller's market, I'm going to have more clients than I know what to do with. Either way, I'm not going to let. I'm not going to let Ukraine or Israel or anything else. Only what I can control. I can't control the traffic.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So I'm what's in my control. And people say, you know, you got to understand, Christmas is coming up and it was a hot. The summer didn't hit right for H Vac. Everyone's got a reason. And they say, you don't understand my industry. You don't know my market. It's not like that here. These people are offering it for cheap. I'm like, and you're competing on price. You can compete on three things. Be the cheapest, be the best warranty with the best parts and time, same day, we're going to be out there when you need us most.

[Chris Lee]

Can I have two?

[Tommy Mello]

And so many people pick. I'm going to be price. I'm going to be. And Alex Tremosi, you know him well, you know better than I do.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

He talks about this is like, most of the people that are competing on price are broke. They're making barely a living. And literally, you're copying the company that's been doing this for 30 years that doesn't have a business that they could sell their phone number, not their business, Right? And these businesses come try to sell to me, and I'm like, I look at their financials and I go, well, you pay yourself 180 grand. To replace you is going to be 100. So you found 80 grand, and your business makes 100 grand on top of that 180. I could only give you $1 million for this business. They're like, are you crazy? I got 40,000 customers. They don't believe it. They don't understand. And I'm like, no one wants to pay you for your goodwill and your bullshit.

[Chris Lee]

Like, look, we need. We need hard ebitda, baby.

[Tommy Mello]

We do.

[Chris Lee]

It's real cash.

[Tommy Mello]

So I take out. The way PE works is we take out Loans.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

That, that makes the numbers way better.

[Chris Lee]

Yep.

[Tommy Mello]

And it's got to be able to pass what's called a quality of earnings. And you get some add backs in there, and some of those are questionable. You could add back your daughter's pay, you can add back the car you're driving. Some of them, though, are like ridiculous. And then you say, you know, there's all these questions, are you going to roll equity? How's this going to work? But other than that, there's really no questions. It's like black and white and everybody wants to live in this color area. Well, you know, and here's the worst thing they say, imagine what you're going to do with this. You got a higher price, you got a higher conversion rate. And I'm like, so you want me to pay you for what I'm going to do with it? It's like, you want me to pay you. So I'm going to buy your house that's in horrible shape and I got to fix it up, I got to repaint it, redo the roof. Do you want me to pay you for what the ARV is going to.

[Chris Lee]

That's the crazy thing in real estate all the time. If you go buy an apartment complex, guys try selling on a pro forma of what it could be like. If you raise the rents and you change all these things, it's worth this much. We're like, well, why don't you do it?

[Tommy Mello]

And they really think, they're like, but this is, you got to understand, this is their life. This is their largest asset.

[Chris Lee]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

And other people go like this. They go, I'm not going to spend $30,000 on a brand, on getting my brand right. You're betting the farm on this. You don't get the brand right. You know, if I said, you're going to sell in six months, what would you do? They say, well, I definitely cut these two guys and I top grade this and I do this. Why don't you do that? Yeah, like, you know what you need to do with Uncle Joe that's been milking for the last five years. Why don't you start thinking I'm going to be selling in three months Even if you're not. Do the right things. Take the hard choices. You'll meet this big dude tatted up like, drives a Harley he's afraid to fire. He's a manly man, but he won't do make the hard decisions. What if you manned up or womaned up and made these hard, hard decisions today and Realized I need to get this and this and there's nothing gonna stop me. No excuses. Even with getting in shape, I got a guy. You don't know. What happened to my shoulder? I can't lift. Dude, you don't even walk. I watched you drink a 12 pack last night. You are making excuses. Thinking in a 12 step process. I've never been through one. What's the first. What's the first thing you do? Admitting you've got a problem.

[Chris Lee]

Exactly.

[Tommy Mello]

And most people are going, oh, this, this. You don't understand.

[Daryl Kelly]

This one of the things. So firing is hard. I remember when we first had to fire people. Like, I hated it because I feel like I was doing.

[Tommy Mello]

I'm not good at it to this day.

[Daryl Kelly]

Well, I feel like I was doing something wrong to these people. I was putting them in a bad situation. And then the paradigm shift was like, I'm not firing them for me, I'm firing them for everyone else who's there working for me. Right. And so that helped a little bit. It helped a lot, actually.

[Chris Lee]

But then on top of that is like, there is a right fit for every single person on this earth somewhere, right? They have a value that they can bring to society. And if they're not bringing it to us, by not getting rid of them, you are costing them their real opportunity and, and like, gift in life, right? Like if they are an artist stuck doing an accounting job for you, right? Like you were screwing them by not setting them free. That's a big, big one of the.

[Daryl Kelly]

One of the traps though, and, and we had to learn this when we had to cut some people was if you're overpaying someone, they're the hardest people to cut because you're basically putting them in a bad situation because they'll never be able to replace the pay because you overpaid them. The people that you're paying them what they're worth, you should never worry about laying them off or firing them because they'll go get a job for the same or more.

[Tommy Mello]

That's a great. Here's the deal. This is where everybody gets confused. A lot of my coaches, a lot of different people, they go, do you realize how much this guy's making? And they go, he should be running more jobs than two a day. And I go, he spent 10 years to master the craft, to be the best. Tom Brady doesn't have to play every scrimmage. He just needs to play in the Super Bowl. And I said, he's earned the right to make 400 grand. You know, why? Because he's earned the right. And guess what? He makes more than me without equity, but he makes more than me. Any sales job, you, it's called performance pay. And when you're the best and you're very good at it, you don't put a limit. You know how many owners I meet that they're like, my guy makes more than me? I'm like, did you really reverse engineer and pull out a pivot table and say, if your guy's making 500 grand, that means I'm making a million, Right? And if you make. I tell my guys all the time, I hope you make $10 million next year. Yeah, like, but, but owners are like, well, he's not working as hard. He's not doing this. You built the pay structure. What do you mean?

[Chris Lee]

And it's crazy. The people that want to go in and change those pay structures because these guys are making too much when they're actually performing and producing, especially management. Oh, it's crazy.

[Tommy Mello]

So they're like, I'm like, then you, here's the keys. You could go have that job. You could have any. You want to be in a star, they're making a lot of money. You go take that job. Oh, but you don't get to be in an air conditioned office. Oh, you got to pick up a night shift. Oh, you got to work weekends. Oh, you have to pick up on Christmas, because that guy picked up on Christmas. And guess what? That guy wasn't going to make Pinnacle, but he worked one month straight because he wanted it that bad. At iron, I think we miss how hard these guys don't have it easy. And when you're the best of the best, why would you get any one of my management, right? They could have that job. They could say, listen, dude, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go into this. And it's not a demotion. That's the hardest part about a sales guy is they're like, I want to get into management. And it's so great.

[Chris Lee]

You're gonna make less money.

[Tommy Mello]

You're gonna make less money, but there's an opportunity to have ownership. And it's gonna take a few steps back, but you could probably take 10 steps forward. But it's like, so you're devaluing what I'm worth? No, it's a whole different role. And it's more about leadership and communication and these different things. And it's very, very hard because they feel trapped. They'll never get out of the garage. And that's. That's why we created the product specialist that could work from home.

[Chris Lee]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

To help close over the phone. So that's, there's, there's. Now there's a different branch that you could go different ways. And that's what people love about. They get to work themselves out of the garage.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

As they get older. And it's understandable. Last thing, guys, let's, let's get this going here. I'm going to ask you guys each a question to close us out. But if someone wants to get a hold of you, Chris, how do they do that?

[Chris Lee]

Follow me on Instagram is probably the best at. Chris Lee, QB quarterback, Where are you at? Are you mainly on Facebook? Instagram? What's the best spot?

[Tommy Mello]

Well, TommyMello.com has all my social. I'm more, I'm an old man. I'm more on Facebook and you know, somewhat LinkedIn but. But it's fun.

[Chris Lee]

It's funny. Us like 40 year olds, the guys in the 40s, right. Like we're still on Facebook.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

We made that transition from not on Snapchat, we're from MySpace to Facebook. So it's like hard for us to make another transition. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's pretty funny. My family. What about you, Darryl?

[Daryl Kelly]

Instagram, Darrell C Kelly kind of find me there.

[Chris Lee]

Yeah, I always give Darryl a hard time. I'm like, bro, get on social.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, by the way, Darrell is D A R y l l 1 l, 1 l. So we screwed this up.

[Daryl Kelly]

D D A R Y L. And.

[Tommy Mello]

Then it's C, C Kelly, Kelly K. Follow these guys, Reach out to these guys. Any books that like out of like, you know, the greats. There's a million books, but is there one book that maybe no one's heard of that you guys are like?

[Chris Lee]

I mean, one, one that I. Many people have heard of, but I always go back to is a Atomic Habits by James. I mean, dude, every time I read that book, it gets my mind right? And I'm reminded of. Right. Like habit, chains and everything else. I'm like, ah, I gotta get back. And I always sharpen right back up, dude. It's. I throw that thing in audible for one year and I'm. Or for one hour and I'm dialed. I'm ready. I'm ready to take on the world and just be the most disciplined human being in the world.

[Tommy Mello]

So let me, let me read you something while you're thinking of that, Daryl. So I'm your constant companion. I am your greatest helper or your heaviest burden. I will push you onward or drag you down to failure. I'm completely at your command. Half of the things, you might as well turn it over to me, and I'll do them quickly and correctly. I'm easily managed, but you must be firm with me. Show me exactly how you want something done, and after a few lessons, I'll do it automatically. I'm the servant of great people and the Ellis of all the failures as well. Those who are great, I have made great. Those who are failures, I have made failures. I'm not a machine, though. I work with the precision of a machine, plus the intelligence of a person. You may run me for profit or run me for ruin, it makes no difference to me. Train me, take me, be firm with me, and I will place the world at your feet. Be easy with me and I will destroy you. Who am I? I am Habit. I get goosebumps.

[Chris Lee]

That's so good. Where's that from?

[Tommy Mello]

It's just a poem. It's called I am Habit. And I read this to all my graduates every single month.

[Chris Lee]

I love it. And like, dude, send it to me.

[Tommy Mello]

I changed. I will. And I changed everything by just learning. Like, dude, habits are everything. And it's so important. Like, I flossed twice a day. I got a time for it. I still throw things out of whack so time doesn't fly by. And I kind of get out of rhythm. But. But it's. I could go right back in where it's just rare because you know what happens when you get off your rhythm.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

As you got to have this skill to get right back in it. And you got to be disciplined. Because if you're walking three miles a day and you stop for a month or you get sick and you can't jump back in, it's so easy to listen to that bad voice and say, well, I love that book. What about yours?

[Daryl Kelly]

Essentially, you say that. So. So my recommendation is I'm gonna just throw. Throw something out there that probably business community has. No, it could be. But Becoming Supernatural by Joe Dispenza. So this is. Yeah. So Joe Dispenza, he teaches meditation. And when I first got involved in. In his work, it was kind of Woowoo type stuff. He helps break it down so you can understand it. But one of the. One of the powerful things is understanding how your body thinks and how your mind thinks. And what that means is like, there's times where we react. We create an emotion to a situation, and it's just purely a memorized reaction that our body gives Us. A good example would be like, you could come home and your wife says something and your reaction is like, triggered. Triggered for whatever reason.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Daryl Kelly]

And you know what meditation is? Is. It's removing. It's removing that programming in your body so that you can actually think and use your mind to actually be cognizant of your decisions. Yeah.

[Chris Lee]

And your emotions.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

I love that.

[Daryl Kelly]

It's really fascinating. It's a very different way to look at what's going on in the world.

[Tommy Mello]

I think I need, like, I'm very nervous to unpack some of these memories that I know are deep down inside. And this lady, she pulls out these Kleenexes and they're filled with this trash bag, like this big, you know, just like an office trash and a C3 through. And she goes. When we meditate, when we actually get the help, when we take these things, she takes out each napkin, she folds it up, puts it there, and she goes, this next one, she folds it up and she takes all these out and she puts them back in and says, there's more. There's more stuff going to be here, but we're free. We're free now. We've accepted the past. And that's a tough one for me because I know there's stuff I don't know, like, I don't know what's in there.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

But it's like, you know the book Geno Wickman?

[Chris Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Shine, his newest one. Shine is. He's. He had. He sold his company. He's on the top EOs. He's on the top of his game.

[Chris Lee]

He's a great guy. We actually flew him out and met directly with our management team. He's.

[Tommy Mello]

He's a genius, and I love the guy. And he said, dude, by all accounts, I'm the biggest success. A worldwide training for business. I. I'm multi, you know, hundreds of millions. And he goes, I sat there, sold. He owns 12 and a half percent of EOS now. And he goes, I was literally depressed. Like, literally, like very depressed. And he goes, I didn't know what to do. I had all this money. I created something amazing. And he. So he writes about this and Shine, and it's true, man. Like, people sell. It's almost like you sold a piece of your heart when you sell your business sometimes. And that's one thing that I'll never go through. I love my business, but I understand what it's doing and I understand that it is a business. It's not a human being. And it helps a lot of people. And I'll never leave it in a bad spot. From Good to Great and Built to Last by Jim Collins. Built to Last is like, I want to leave this company and thrive without me, because that's how good of a leader I want to become, is that it did better when I was gone because there's no ego. I love it. And that's a different thought. But I'm going to have you guys give us. We talked about, and this is the best part is I didn't ask any questions on this.

[Chris Lee]

That's good. It was good discussion.

[Tommy Mello]

So we talked about a lot of things in the podcast, talked a little bit about PE, a lot about just growing a business, talked about our some of favorite books, talked about hiring, probably left some good things out. Probably something that's heavy on the heart, something that the listeners need to hear. So one big thing to close us out.

[Daryl Kelly]

Daryl so I'm looking at myself 10 years ago, 20 years ago, what I would talk, what I would tell myself.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, I like that.

[Daryl Kelly]

And I think, I think that the one thing that I'm learning today that I wish I would have understand better then is like, we experience this world in our body and our body is impacted by food and exercise, also many other things. But just like, don't wait to take care of your health, like, make your health part of who you are. I was in the, I was in the camp where I just, I was skinny, even be considered skinny fat. Like, I just didn't, I just didn't. I wouldn't eat really much food.

[Chris Lee]

I, I didn't work out a lot.

[Daryl Kelly]

Didn't work out a lot. And so then this year, you know, I feel like I've gone this, gone through this big transformation from a lot of different aspects, from business, spiritually, financially, and the physical aspect just wasn't a priority. So, you know, I've gained 25 pounds this year and I've been eating a lot better. I've been very diligent in what I eat, what I don't eat, and it just seems foolish that we don't take that serious. And I know you've recently, you just mentioned you've been focusing on that as well.

[Tommy Mello]

10%. I'm. I'm gonna know Saturday, dude.

[Chris Lee]

10%. Jeez. Dang, Gina. I mean, what, what was it, a year and a half ago?

[Tommy Mello]

You were 26.

[Daryl Kelly]

Really?

[Tommy Mello]

No less than a year ago.

[Chris Lee]

That's. That's incredible. That's incredible. By the way, he's got a great doctor that I, we. I did a Call with. We need to do a group call.

[Tommy Mello]

Part. Part of it. Like the four hour work week. It's like, are your supplements right? Is your sleep right? Is your water right? Is your food right? But it's not that complicated.

[Chris Lee]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

It's like anything else you said once you learned your KPIs.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yes.

[Tommy Mello]

It's pretty simple. You know, your KPIs of your body, your sleep, your. Your algorithm. And all of a sudden, man, it's really not that hard. It's these little decisions.

[Daryl Kelly]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Of just, you know what? I don't want cake. You know what? I'm gonna order a chicken. And by the way, order stuff that you enjoy eating because there's something healthy you enjoy. It's just so easy. Food is poison. Did you ever see who's in charge of the United States, Canada or England? Like the Health General?

[Chris Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

They are fat, disgusting, large.

[Chris Lee]

I mean, we have a tranny as we do. I mean, how is that the health person? I'm sorry, you went for it. I'm sorry. But man, dude, that's a health issue.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, I agree. How about you, brother? I do, by the way. I'll just tell you that that's very, very powerful. Like, I got a phone call that my cousin, very smart gal, says, you know, what's wrong with you? You know, you don't look healthy, you don't love yourself. She made me go take off my shirt in the mirror and I was embarrassed. It's something. I looked in the mirror every day, but I didn't see myself. I had every reason. And then she said, why don't you love yourself? And man, that was a smack in the face.

[Daryl Kelly]

I think the challenge too is we're like, taught. Like, don't be vain. Right? Yeah. But I think that's taken out of context. I think enjoy being able to be in love with your image is important.

[Chris Lee]

Well, I also think it's just like being out of whack any one direction. Like the guy that only cares about his physical appearance and that's it. Like, spends six hours in the gym, has a terrible family life, can't pay, barely pay his gym membership or whatever else.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Chris Lee]

I think, I think there's. There's that. Right. But. And so what we have been taught on the opposite side is like, that's bad. So don't just.

[Daryl Kelly]

And I think on the other side too, I think you'll manage stress better. Right. We go through a lot of stressful things as business owners.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[Daryl Kelly]

And I mean, stress is just an emotion Your body's producing, it's chemical, right? And. And your body can go through quite a bit, but you have so much opportunity to control that in a better way. And I think it starts with diet and exercise and being consistent on those two things. Because I know if I wake up and I work out, I'm going to eat right, my mind's going to be right. Like so many other things start to.

[Chris Lee]

Sealed habit stack, right? Like, yes, you start with one thing, a domino effects into everything else.

[Tommy Mello]

Stress is the inability of action. It's not acting, it's not making decisions, it's not moving forward. It's not having the difficult conversations. I think most of stress and anxiety is dealt with is you're letting things bottle up instead of just getting it out. Rip the band aid. Rip the band aid. Rip the band aid.

[Chris Lee]

And. And I think when you're taking action in the gym and being disciplined at the dinner table, it's much easier to address these hard things that cause stress, right? Like go and have the hard conversations.

[Tommy Mello]

You do that more because you're used to doing hard things. And I do believe, like. Like, you know, we making decisions quickly and just living with them quickly. Like, so many people live in this procrastination mode.

[Chris Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And they just don't know. Like, it's not the right time, you know, But. But what if we fail and they're so worried and it's like, who cares? We fail, we make 100,000 decision doesn't work. That's why my PE company, I. They're like, you prove it out in that market, then you could scale it to five, then you go do it.

[Chris Lee]

They're totally fine.

[Tommy Mello]

They're fine taking the action.

[Chris Lee]

That's awesome.

[Tommy Mello]

What is your.

[Chris Lee]

You know, for me, I. I've thought a lot about just like the why, right? Like, everybody knows about, like, yeah, you got to have a why that motivates you and everything else. But. But I think more important than that, you need to have a why that's unique. Right? Like, most of us try to create whys that are somebody else's why. All right, I need the house, the car. This. Like, we define success based off other people's parameters rather than our own. And I think really getting detailed. Like, for me, what's changed my life is when I put detail to the reason why I want a certain dollar amount, like, what am I going to do with those dollars? Like, what does that actually mean for me if I have a billion dollars in the bank account? Not just to say I have A billion dollars. But, like, what am I doing with that billion dollars? Like, what. What type of charity events am I running? What. What am I doing in my community? How am I involved in my family's life and everything else because of these type of things and doing the things for me, not for it to impress anybody else. Right. And. And, you know, for some people living in a cottage, you know, that's off grid somewhere in Kansas may be it, and other people, it's going to be a $10 million condo in New York or what, whatever it may be. And, and, and like, getting to know yourself and what actually brings you joy and happiness and everything else. Sorry, that's my diabetes going off over here. So, like, just getting to that and, like, really understanding yourself and being driven that way, rather than just be like, oh, Daryl has this. I should probably want that, or Tommy's done this. And I think it's really easy, especially as a listener to the show. They see three guys that have accomplished a lot of really cool things to be like, oh, I need to go do that, or I want to go do that. It's like, maybe, like, is that the thing that drives you, that pushes you, that motivates you, that's going to give you true fulfillment in life? And if it is, then get an exact detailed plan and go and make it happen.

[Tommy Mello]

I love that. I meet a lot of people that are like, I want to do what you did in my industry. I go, why? They're like, because you proved it's possible. I'm like, what would you possibly do with $100 million? And they're like, I don't know. And I'm like, well, what is it like to be at your daughter's play and not be there? And they're like, but I am there. I'm like, no, you're not. You're thinking about work the whole time. You think this. You never have a plan on selling, which means you're going to spend the next two decades of Mr. Children's life. We say we're all there at work, but very few people have the ability to be where their feet are. And I just. I think you both make valid points. There's 168 hours in a week. Time's not your problem. You work for 50, you sleep for 50, you work out for 10, you still got 60 hours left. So get your time and what you say is really put down a list of priorities you want your life to look like. Manifest what it looks like for me at 41 and say, this is some things that it's not happiness. But this is what really what I want to do. Because trust me, the material things, they're cool at first.

[Chris Lee]

They're fleeting.

[Tommy Mello]

I see a lot of people get on drugs, commit suicide. Their lives fall apart. Money will ruin people quicker than it'll help them. So just be very careful what you guys want. You guys made great valid points. I'm glad you're here. It was a pleasure meeting you, Darrell.

[Chris Lee]

A lot of fun, man.

[Tommy Mello]

As always, appreciate both. Thank you, guys.

[Daryl Kelly]

Thanks, Tommy.

[Tommy Mello]

Thanks for listening, guys.