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- [00:00]
A
Iraq is taking over. So he's like, what does that even mean? Like, you know, you've never heard of this, right? You know, so he's like, no, just go outside and see in your balcony. So he opens the balcony, and they're like tanks lined up on the streets. Then we had to escape. So luckily, the Indian government rescued a lot of the Indians.
- [00:14]
B
How did you escape?
- [00:15]
A
On a fighter plate? On a fighter jet? Like, no. So they send these huge army planes. So he didn't want to work in India. Yeah. Kuwait was obviously, it was a war, so you want to live somewhere close by. And like. Like, Saudi was more conservative at that point, you know, so. So it was just like, okay, let's just try Dubai. So it was. That rejection was a perfect. You know, because if had it not been or had the war not happened or had so many things that happened, you know, maybe things would have not been the same for us. Maybe I would have not been at Harvard. Who knows? Right?
- [00:46]
B
Me. Adel Sajan, you're not going to want to miss this episode where his father came from the slums of India to ultimately becoming one of the top three developers in Dubai, where Otto went. And for Path, this guy, family man, entrepreneur, hustler, shark on Shark Tank. This is going to be one that you want to tune in for. Welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros. Today we have Mr. Adel Sajan, which is one of my best friends in the world. Otto comes from Dubai, what I always refer to as the king of Dubai. He is one of the top three developers in real estate. They have skyscrapers. Literally, when you go into the beautiful city of Dubai, you're going to see these guys everywhere, and they just have such an incredible presence, not only in real estate, but also in retail and supply, everything else, which is super cool. But, you know, obviously, the glitz and glamour is cool. Let's. Let's talk about a little bit of the story. Your dad came from very humble beginnings. Can you jump into that a little bit?
- [01:50]
A
Yeah. So, first of all, Chris, thank you for having me on your podcast. You know, really feeling honored and privileged. Chris, again, is one of my best friends who I met thanks to hps and I had, you know, it's a great time over there thanks to him. So, you know, thank you for being part of my life, talking about my dad. Yes, of course. Things are different now. But actually, my, you know, we originated from, you know, some of the slums in India, and my granddad was a factory worker, and he actually passed away when My dad was only 16, and my dad, being the oldest, suddenly had huge responsibility to take care of his two younger siblings and his mom, who was, you know, not that healthy. So she was unable. She was not capable to work. So he had to not only feed three of his family members, but also make sure that they survive. And it was really, really, really hard because you're 16 and you don't know what just happened. Yeah.
- [02:48]
B
And so you said he came from the slums of India. Like, that's hard to get out of. How did that end up transitioning?
- [02:54]
A
So, so at that point, more than getting out of it was like, how do we put a meal in front of us?
- [02:59]
B
Yeah.
- [02:59]
A
And he used to do all kinds of odd jobs, like selling milk, delivering newspapers, selling firecrackers, you name it. Like, you know, whatever. Hustler, like, because at that point you just got a. Get a meal in front of your, you know. Yeah. So that's survival. Survival. So it was literally survival mode. And he reached out to one of his uncles in Kuwait. He's like, look, uncle, I need help. Can you give me a job? I need to really support my family. And his uncle said that, look, you're too young. When you turn 18, I will employ you. And he just thought that, look, normally when you need people the most, that's when they turn away. It's typical life. But luck may have it. On his 18th birthday, his uncle sent him a letter saying that, hey, Rizwan, Happy birthday. You're 18, and if you're still willing to, you know, the job is still available. And my dad was like, hell, yeah.
- [03:53]
B
And what industry was your uncle in?
- [03:55]
A
So my uncle had, you know, a building material company in Kuwait, you know, selling all kinds of building materials. And my dad just went to Kuwait as an 18 year old. Salary was very low. They used to live in a. Maybe like a 30 square feet, 300 square feet apartment. Like 10 of them. 10 people living in like one.
- [04:15]
B
Wow.
- [04:15]
A
Yeah. In the initial, very initial days. Right.
- [04:18]
B
So this, this suite that we're sitting in is. Is bigger. Is bigger than probably what your dad lived in.
- [04:24]
A
This suite is. Yeah. It is crazy. And. But that's how you start, right? Because when you have that, those humble beginnings, you can't be expecting luxury. You just need to go to the next phase in your life. And that's what he got. He got that opportunity. And as a person, my dad is an ace salesperson, is an ace businessman.
- [04:46]
B
Where did he learn that from?
- [04:47]
A
It's. I think it's in his blood. He didn't. He didn't. He had to drop out of school.
- [04:50]
B
More nature rather than.
- [04:51]
A
He never attended university. He had to drop out at school at grade 10 because his father passed away. So it's not that he was taught all these beautiful cases that we were taught at Harvard, you know, it's just inbuilt.
- [05:02]
B
Yeah.
- [05:02]
A
You know what I mean? And he then, within a very short span of time, became my uncle's right hand because he was really good at what he was doing. And within five, six years, he was, like the chief commander for my uncle for running his business. Made it extremely successful.
- [05:22]
B
How big was the business at that time?
- [05:24]
A
I don't know how big it was, but I know how much he started earning. He started earning about $8,000 a month, keep in mind. $8,000 a month because of commissions. So he was earning that on. On sales commissions, purely on commissions. $8,000 a month, 35 years ago.
- [05:42]
B
So this was early 90s, late 80s.
- [05:46]
A
Late 80s, late eighties, late 80s, early 90s.
- [05:48]
B
I mean, this. That was top. So top 1% in America in 1991 was 100,000.
- [05:55]
A
And now if you. If you. You're talking about America, right? Think about that. If you convert that to Indian rupees.
- [06:01]
B
Oh, man, we were rich. Crushing.
- [06:04]
A
Like, we were extremely, you know, coming from the slums and earning, you know.
- [06:09]
B
Yeah, it would be the equivalent of like a sales guy making 5 million a year here or something.
- [06:13]
A
So learning, earning, you know, $8,000 a month, $100,000 a year. You're crushing it.
- [06:21]
B
Yes.
- [06:21]
A
And he got his sister married, he got a house done. You know, I was born in Kuwait, and we were living in extremely, you know, living in a posh neighborhood in Kuwait. Things were great. You know, there was no reason to, you know, think otherwise. And then fortunately, unfortunately, in, you know, in the early 90s, Saddam Hussein from Iraq, he invaded Kuwait. And my dad's boss calls him and he's like, look, Rizwan, you know, there's an invasion. And he was in London. He's like, go to the office and, you know, pick up these papers. And my dad's like, what is invasion? What does that mean? Yeah, and he's like, rizwan, like, you know, Iraq?
- [07:01]
B
Rizwan's your dad's name?
- [07:02]
A
Yeah, yeah. So he's like, no, Iraq is taking over. So he's like, what does that even mean? Like, you know, you've never heard of this, right? You know, so he's like, no, just go outside and see in your balcony. So he Opens the balcony and they're like tanks lined up on the streets and the soldiers walking in. Because it was a surprise attack. Nobody knew. Right. It wasn't planned. There was no announcement on social media.
- [07:20]
B
Like this was headed up by Saddam Hussein. Yeah, yeah, dude, it's crazy how little educated we are in the western world. Like, I, I knew I knew something about Kuwait and I knew something about Saddam Hussein, but I don't know the details.
- [07:32]
A
So that's what happened overnight. There was a surprise invasion. Iraq invaded Kuwait and that's it. They just seized the country. And we were there. I was born, I was like maybe a year old. And while most people would panic in such a gruesome situation, my father was like, how do I make money out of this? Because that's his spirit, right? So you know what he did? He went to. Because the telecommunication was cut, the Internet, I mean, there was no way to contact your family. So he went to all the people in his buildings and the neighboring buildings and he charged them five dinar. Five dinar would be about four, 60, like about $20 or like $18 for a letter. So he would charge about $20 per letter. He collected 100 letters for people to send them back to their home, that, hey, I'm alive. And then he would take those 100 letters, drive through the tanks, you know, some war torn area, go to the other side and deliver the letters. And then eventually the, you know, the Indian embassy found out, like, what the hell are you doing? You can't do this. You know, it's, it's not safe.
- [08:46]
B
He's like, it's worth two grand. Let's go.
- [08:50]
A
Literally.
- [08:50]
B
Yeah.
- [08:51]
A
And then he started selling oil on the streets in Kuwait. And then it's like, you know, he's pure hustling.
- [08:56]
B
I love it.
- [08:57]
A
And then so one of the Iraqi soldiers came and he's like, how much? And my dad's like, five dinar.
- [09:03]
B
For what?
- [09:04]
A
For the oil, whatever he was buying. And so the Iraqi soldier gives five Iraqi dinar and iri dinar is much less than the Kuwaiti dinar. And my dad's like, no, no, no, not Iraqi. It's Kuwaiti dinar, you know, because like 10 times. Then he takes out like a gun and he's like, no, it's Iraqi. And then my dad eventually had to just, okay, here you go. So, so he did all these crazy.
- [09:26]
B
Things, but at gunpoint he's getting held up. That's crazy.
- [09:31]
A
So anyway, then we had to escape. So luckily the Indian government rescued a lot of The Indians.
- [09:38]
B
So, yeah. How to like, give, give me details.
- [09:40]
A
Like, how did you escape on a fighter plate? On a fighter jet?
- [09:43]
B
Like, no.
- [09:44]
A
So they send these huge army planes and the, The Indian government. Yeah, the Indian government, obviously they would rescue the Indians back to India because we were not Kuwaiti.
- [09:54]
B
Right, yeah.
- [09:55]
A
And I'm sure the other governments. So we expats. So the Indian government sent a lot of planes and we went in like the Indian army planes.
- [10:01]
B
How do. I mean, if they're surrounding this place with tanks, like, how do you.
- [10:04]
A
No, but, but the Iraqis not attack. So they're in. But, but they only. They were okay with the Indians. They didn't have any issues with the Indians.
- [10:10]
B
So they were fine with you guys leaving?
- [10:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. Why? They didn't care with us leaving? You know, it wasn't like. So they were very much okay with people leaving, but they want to capture the country anyway. Fast forward. So my dad leaves, he goes back to India and then he's like, look, I need to get out of India. I need to go somewhere else to make some more money. So he approached one of his friends in Dubai and his friend offered him a salary of 500amonth plus commission, which is like, whoop, you're back to square one. Yeah, yeah. And lord, most of the money that he made got devalued because the Kuwaiti dinar got devalued. So he comes back to Dubai, he starts working for this guy.
- [10:50]
B
So I mean, this is what, 1991, 92. Dubai is basically nothing. It's a desert in 1992. So like, what was this guy? Or why would your dad even consider Dubai?
- [11:07]
A
I don't know. It was very random. It was very random. You know, it's. My mom said you should think about Dubai. It was very random. There was no, like, like, there was.
- [11:14]
B
No, I mean, think about Dubai. Did they even know Dubai existed?
- [11:18]
A
So he didn't want to work in India. Yeah. Kuwait was obviously, it was a war. So you want to live somewhere close by. And like, like, we're like, Saudi was a little more conservative at that point, you know, so. So it was just like, okay, let's just try Dubai. There was no other reason.
- [11:33]
B
So this reminds me. So we.
- [11:34]
A
So luck, I would say luck plays.
- [11:36]
B
We got this equation right from dos where it was like, hard work, all this, all these different things. And then the last one was luck. So my dad always says, nice dose.
- [11:45]
A
He's, of course, he's a smart worker, he's a hard worker, but he's always had very good luck on his side. And in this case, to answer your question, plain flat is luck, which is interesting.
- [11:56]
B
I don't necessarily believe in luck. I actually believe it's like hope and manifestation that comes in the form of luck.
- [12:04]
A
No, I believe in the fact that you can't just be like, hey, I'm going to sit at home all day and I'm going to get lucky. You got to set yourself up for luck. So, yes, luck plays a big role, but then you got to also work your ass off and you got to set yourself up for luck.
- [12:18]
B
Absolutely.
- [12:18]
A
And then when it comes, it comes.
- [12:21]
B
So you guys. You guys move.
- [12:22]
A
So we come back to Dubai and, you know, he gets a very low salary. 500 per month with commission. And, you know, he's working for this guy, and he starts earning about three, three and a half thousand dollars a month because of commissions, which is okay. And he goes back to him and he's like, look, he tells his boss, the new boss, now that I know this business about plywood and timber, which he learned in Kuwait, you know, give me four or five people and give me, like a 10% profit share and I can make it big. And. But unfortunately, that guy was very conservative. He's like, no, this is too risky. I don't want to do it. And then my dad's like, look, I don't see my. My growth potential too much, so I want to part ways. And that's when he went to my mom and he's like, so wait, this.
- [13:10]
B
Guy rejected the 10% profit share?
- [13:13]
A
He rejected the idea of doing this new business of plywood and timber. So he was doing a hardware business, which is a smaller business. You know, door handles, hinges, you know, nails.
- [13:22]
B
And so your dad decided to go and do it on his own, which had this guy accepted the offer.
- [13:27]
A
Yeah.
- [13:27]
B
It would have been a completely different outcome for him. Yeah, for sure. Wow.
- [13:32]
A
So he said no. I mean, he's still in Dubai. He knows. Yeah.
- [13:38]
B
And he's kicking himself.
- [13:40]
A
And I mean, it's okay. I mean, he's okay. He's doing. He's doing all right. And like I said, it's. It's a little bit of destiny, a little bit of luck. So. So it was. That rejection was a perfect. You know, because if had it not been or had the war not happened or had so many things would happen, you know, maybe things would have not been the same for us. Maybe I would have not been at Harvard. Who knows? Right?
- [13:59]
B
So, you know, I. I think one of the greatest principles of Successful people is that they are really good at fighting off their back.
- [14:06]
A
Correct.
- [14:07]
B
And your dad sounds like he was put on his back several times.
- [14:10]
A
Oh, many times, multiple. With his dad passing away and then the Kuwait war and then of course, many with the recession. So many times he's faced very. He always has a smile. He's never stressed about it, you know, I don't know how. It's awesome. Anyway, so he started his business, he went to my mom, he's like, Look, I have $30,000 saved right now because all the money he made earlier was gone because of Kwaiti now. So I have $30,000 saved. I want to start a business. Worst case, six months, I lose all the money and I can go back and I can get a 3,4000 dollar job easily. I'm capable enough and we can live. We'll have a house sustained, we'll have food, like, you know, we'll be okay. It's not the end of the world. My mom said, do whatever you want, you have my support. And I was.
- [14:51]
B
Which also is like a key principle to success is having somebody that will support you.
- [14:56]
A
So my mom is very simple, very supportive, you know, very easy to get along with. So she was a big moral support for my dad. And that's why my dad's like, okay, you know, it's not the end of the world, let me take this plunge. But no, he, obviously nobody knew that it's going to become this, I mean, fast forward, if I have to say. Like our company just completed 30 years this year. And from that $30,000, you know, last year we had an annual revenue of almost four and a half billion dollars.
- [15:24]
B
Unbelievable.
- [15:25]
A
We have, you know, 6,000 people working for us, multiple businesses, 40 cities. So, you know, it's just a complete.
- [15:31]
B
Transformation from the slums to four and a half billion. Yeah, it's so, so incre. So obviously life's been different for you.
- [15:40]
A
Yeah, right.
- [15:40]
B
Like you didn't grow up in slums.
- [15:42]
A
No, no, no.
- [15:42]
B
You had a lot of incredible opportunity. Your dad set you up in a lot of ways. But I think one of the things that I respect and love most about you is that you found your own path.
- [15:51]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [15:52]
B
Along that. So can you dive a little bit like into that? Like what it is like growing up in a successful home and finding your own path?
- [16:01]
A
Yeah. So I'll start off with my growing up part first. My dad really instilled very strong values from, from a very young age. He was extremely tough in building my foundation. So When I was 13 years old, Summer holidays, like we all do. June, July, August. So we had our building material shops, you know, and in that we have a warehouse and we have like an open yard where we store timber, plywood, all kinds of wood over there. So 13 years old. I was supposed to work eight to one during my summer holidays with my tie. I have to be on time with the. I was.
- [16:36]
B
You had to wear a tie?
- [16:37]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And I had to be on time. Like, no, eight or five. It's 8:00. And my first job is, was with the blue collar workers.
- [16:46]
B
And this is at age 13, you.
- [16:47]
A
Said, which I love. But the only challenge with this was I was working in the open yard. So I don't know if you've been to Dubai, but Dubai in the summers it's 100 plus degrees.
- [16:59]
B
I think we. Yeah, it's like 120 or something.
- [17:02]
A
It's really hot. It's really hot. Like, you know, it's like 50 degrees Celsius. I don't know how much is in Fahrenheit, but it's like really, really, really hot. And I used to carry like four shirts because I would be like drenched every day and I'd like come back with like a red tomato face. And my mom and my dad would fight every day and he's like, look, stay away from this. It's my, you know, domain. Do whatever you want outside this, but this part is mine.
- [17:22]
B
So. She wanted to protect you. Like, don't make him.
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A
Which mother is going to like his son who's 13, getting roasted in the sun every day? Come on. You know, you're not going to find many mothers who could be okay with that. So.
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B
And you're, you're an only child, right?
- [17:36]
A
I'm the only child.
- [17:37]
B
Yeah.
- [17:37]
A
But I did get, I did get a salary. So I was paid about $120 a month, which was a lot of money as well, being 13. Yeah, 22 years ago.
- [17:45]
B
Yeah.
- [17:45]
A
So it was nice, it was fun. And, and then so, so from the age of 13 to 18 every year for those three months, I always did something. So for the first three years I was in the warehouse, then one year I spent in Media City in marketing. In one year we did door to door sales. So we started the steel division. So we used to go to all these AC fabricators knocking in that, hey, we're from Danube. This is what we're selling. One year I, when I was 18, I spent. When I say one year is the three months my summer holidays I spend in my dad's cabin, just observing what he does, how he deals with issues, how he's meeting people, how he meets bankers, how he meets inside, outside people, whatever.
- [18:28]
B
So I want to. I want to point out, like, just the progression of that. Like, initially, it was like, go work. Bust your butt. Doesn't matter if it's smart work. It's just hard work.
- [18:37]
A
Correct.
- [18:37]
B
Right. Those first three years. Then he said, okay, let's go marketing. Figure out how to get people's attention.
- [18:44]
A
Then sales.
- [18:44]
B
Next. Figure out how to close people. And then last, figure out how to govern and manage people.
- [18:50]
A
That wasn't the last. That was the second last.
- [18:52]
B
Okay.
- [18:52]
A
And the last was when. So I was supposed to study in the US I had very good grades. Of course, we had the money by then. But then my dad's like, look, I think you should study over here in Dubai so you can work and study at the same time. And we had just started our retail business. So at the age of 19, I became a buyer by buyer means, like a department head. So, you know, he's like, okay, I want you to go and start a chandelier division. I'm like, chandelier what? And he's like, how do you. Like, how do you even start a division? You know, you're 19. I have no idea. He's like, no, it's okay. You'll figure it out. And he didn't tell me anything. So he's like, here's a million dollars. Go and start the Shanghai division. It's not a bag of million dollars, but, like, a buying budget of million dollars.
- [19:32]
B
Yeah.
- [19:32]
A
And bag would be dope. So I go. I go to China, and there's a city called Gujin, and this is known as a city of lights. It's 90 minutes away from Guangzhou. And literally, Chris, it's unbelievable. You have a city with 7,000 shops of chandeliers and 10,000 factories of chandeliers and lighting in a. In, like, in something as small as. Like, maybe smaller than Manhattan. That's all there is. There's only chandelier shops, restaurants, and hotels. There's nothing. China.
- [20:06]
B
China literally blows my mind. So I've been there a couple times.
- [20:09]
A
Yeah.
- [20:10]
B
And one night we were having dinner, and the guy that we were with, our translator, he was like, do you guys want furs?
- [20:16]
A
Yeah.
- [20:16]
B
And I'm like, furs? Why would I want fur? He's like, there's a city close to this first. Literally, we went, same thing, same type of city, just fur. Like, dude. Literally cities dedicated to one product so.
- [20:29]
A
You know, that's smart. The way they've designed it makes it very easy for buyers. And I walk in, you know, 19 years old, there's this new translator. She's three months old in the company. And we're like, okay, let's figure this out. So we know, made some Excel file, tried to make some sense of it, and we just went door to door, hey, we're from Dubai, very big company. But this is our order because there's a new division. And it was fun. You know, it was really fun. And I had. But, but, but. But the good thing, I mean, the bad thing at that point was I had no idea about MOQs, minimum water quantities. I had no idea about packaging. I had no idea about freight. I had no idea about tax and duties. I had no idea about anything.
- [21:07]
B
You just had to figure it out.
- [21:09]
A
I just had to figure it out. So it's like you throw a kid in the pool. He just figured out. So that's what it was. And, of course, my dad could have given me, like, some. Some understanding, but he didn't intentionally, of course. Now I've been to, like, China 40 times. I travel 100 days a year for my work. It's a very different story now, but that's how I started. So when I was in my university, I used to go for exhibitions. I used to go to university. And then after uni, I used to go to work, to our shops, you know, meet the customers, meet the salespeople, go through some. I had fun as well. Don't get me wrong. I had a very good life. But it was a balanced life's work, college, and then fun. So we had all three going on. And then the pivotal moment of my life happened when I graduated. So my dad asked me, what do you want to do? And I wanted to join the family business. Of course, he's like. Because I had two parts. So one was our building material business. We were doing a revenue of about, at that point, one and a half billion per year ad and we were very profitable, you know, successful business. Our core business.
- [22:17]
B
Yeah.
- [22:18]
A
And the other is this new retail business, which is doing about 100 million a year, but we were losing 10 million a year on it. And my dad was kind of like, just fed up with this business. You want to shut it down. He's like, you know, this is taking so much time, and we're not able to get it right. And, you know, whatever.
- [22:33]
B
Like, it was a distraction from the core business.
- [22:35]
A
Yeah, it was. It was defocused. He's like, I want to shut it down. So I thought to myself, I told my dad, I'm like, look, I don't shut it down. Give me this business, I want to take over. And he was very happy. And at that point, if you ask any guy, when you have a one and a half billion profitable business which is doing well, and 100 million where you're losing 10 million a year, which is not doing well, which one would you choose?
- [23:00]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [23:01]
A
Nine out of ten times people would go with the easier option. But the reason I chose this path was because I thought that if I could A, turn this around, I could add value to the company and B, then it's my baby where I can do whatever I want. Right. I don't have anyone else, you know, because think about it, I'm 22 years old. I don't want to be working with like these 50 year old CEOs and then it doesn't work.
- [23:24]
B
So which, which brings up another question. Did you like growing up in a very successful home? Did you yearn to have your own like validation?
- [23:33]
A
I want to have my own path. No, I want to have my own path. Like my dad's had his own path, he's created his empire. So I wanted to, you know, prove to the company as well.
- [23:41]
B
Yeah.
- [23:41]
A
That yes, you know, I can do something by myself. Because when you, when you join a successful business, if you do well, it's your dad's business.
- [23:48]
B
Right.
- [23:48]
A
If you do wrong, it's always a dad came up with a good business and father son screwed it up. You know, so, and then, and then from a value proposition side, how are you adding value? You want to come in, try new things.
- [23:58]
B
Right.
- [23:58]
A
And I always believe should not never spoil a running formula. Successful formula. So that was successful. Very successful. Leading in the market.
- [24:06]
B
Yeah.
- [24:07]
A
And that's when my journey began, like my true journey began. So I, I remember it was 2014, you know, I was super young. And so it's 2012, my bad, 2012. And I have this business and I can tell you something, which I can tell you now, it's much easier to start a new business than to take a failed business and turn around. It's much harder to do that because, you know, things are set in a way that it's not working right. And the first thing that I did was I went to my, you know, top management. I'm like, hey guys, I know I'm the chairman's son, but don't treat me like one. I'm not here to take Your job, I swear to God, I'm here not as, you know, your enemy or somebody who's going to take your job. I am here as your biggest weapon. Because, you know, at the end of the day, we're a big conglomerate. You guys are now the small guys in this big conglomerate who's losing money. So, you know, obviously you need help. And being the chairman's son, I can open up a lot of doors. I can fight a lot of battles for you internally and externally. I can make you. I can make this company grow because we have the same common goal. I want to prove myself. And if the company grows, your career grows. So at the end, if I win, you win, you win, I win. So we have a unified goal. So don't have that impression that I'm. Because it makes a difference. It always happens. When you have management and the young chairman son joins immediately, you'll have good people leave.
- [25:31]
B
Yep. So I. So I just want to point out what you did there. So you defined very clear expectations, like, hey, look, this is where we're at. This is where we need to be. This is like. And you put everybody, you were very transparent of like, don't do this. Let's create common goals.
- [25:49]
A
I gave them confidence that. Because if I fast forward, like now we're close. They told me they're like, the second they announced they were to leave.
- [25:56]
B
Right.
- [25:57]
A
In six months. Because they're like, oh, you know, now the chairman's son is here. What value do I have?
- [26:01]
B
So, and I think most business owners get this wrong. Right. Like, they just like, let it be and kind of just come in. But the fact that you were very.
- [26:09]
A
Clear, basically, I wanted to run the company professionally, not as a family run business, but of course, have my involvement open up the doors. You know, be them as a support system. Be them to fight their battles. Yep. But let them fight it. So that was very important. And two years, oh, my God, from 2012 to 2014 was so hard. But we took some really tough decisions. That was a time when we're like, okay, let's turn. How do we turn this around?
- [26:38]
B
So what happened to revenue those first couple of years?
- [26:40]
A
So what we did was, number one, was shut down half our stores where we didn't see a silver lining. Number two, was rebranded our concept from Bill Mart to Danube Home. Number three is we stopped all local purchase. So I said that everything that we import, everything that we sell has to be imported, so our gross margins go up, better control on stock. Hired some retail professionals, fixed our warehousing and logistics made sure we have, like, top tier racking.
- [27:08]
B
So when you got rid of 50% of your locations, how many locations did you go from?
- [27:12]
A
We had about 11, and we came down to six.
- [27:14]
B
Okay.
- [27:16]
A
But then we also added a couple of more locations. We were like, then back to eight. But then, interestingly enough, so at that time, you know, our store was. One was like 2,000 square feet. One was 20,000 square feet. One was 10,000 square feet. There was no science behind why we opened.
- [27:33]
B
I mean, there was no, like, stamped formula.
- [27:36]
A
That was a problem. So we had building people running retail. So I changed that. I added the retail people on board, fixed all the issues that we had. And I remember it was in. And I came up with this new concept called Danube Home, where the store size would be 60 to 100,000 square feet. And the concept was everything home from furniture, sanitary tiles, garden, kitchen, electrical hardware, blinds, like a superstore for home.
- [28:01]
B
And before that, your largest store was 20,000 square feet.
- [28:04]
A
The largest. But the average store is about 8,000.
- [28:06]
B
Wow.
- [28:06]
A
So reinvented the whole concept. And it was in the year 2014 where we finally broke even. So we grew from 100 million to 128 million.
- [28:17]
B
And during this time, Dubai is cruising. Right. Like, yeah. I mean, that the Burj Khalifa had just been finished. Or. Or was this when you kind of had a little bit of a downturn?
- [28:26]
A
Yeah. So this was. So we opened the concept in 2009, right after recession. So it was. The market was okay. I mean, it was. It wasn't bad. It was okay. It was good. It wasn't like, crazy like, you know, but it was all right. But it was in 2014 when we broke even. So from minus 10 to 0, we grew by 28%. And guess what? My daughter was not happy at all. He's like, oh, you've only grown by 28%. You know, when I was younger and we started off, we used to grow by 50, 60% a year.
- [28:56]
B
Oh.
- [28:58]
A
And I was like, you know, I was expecting.
- [29:00]
B
How did that make you feel?
- [29:01]
A
I was expecting, like, wow, Adil, good job. You know, you did something I couldn't in this business. And. But. But that's what, you know, that's what keeps it going. So I told. I explained to him.
- [29:10]
B
So does that piss you off or motivate you?
- [29:12]
A
No, no, I'm. It's not about motivation or piss me off because I'm a rational person. Right. So I explained to him, and it was intentional because, see, in retail, it's very Easy to grow, throw money, open stores. You, your revenue grows. So I'm like, look, this was part of our strategy. And I truly believe that if your foundation is weak and you just grow, you're never going to make money.
- [29:31]
B
Absolutely.
- [29:31]
A
You got to first fix your foundation. Create and make sure your base is strong. And then you. And then you. So running a business is like running a marathon. If you don't prep yourself and you run a marathon, you're gonna, you're gonna.
- [29:44]
B
You know, unless you're Daryl.
- [29:45]
A
Unless you're Daryl. But then if you, if you prep yourself, you know, do the right training, get the right nutrition already for, you know, for the sprint, and then you do the marathon, you've got to do much better, right? So that's what we were doing for those two years. So I told him, look, if I double the revenue, instead of losing 10 million, you'd be losing 20 million a year. So 2014 is the year I went back to him. I'm like, look, we're ready now. We have a new concept. We have new people, we have a new structure. We're broken even. I want your blessings. And by blessings, I meant money to grow the business, finance. And he's like, okay, sure. So I told him, I'm like, look, I wanna, you know, he's like, you have my blessings as long as it's green on the paper. I was like, fair enough. And the first thing I did was I took about 35 of my key, key, key members, you know, branch heads, warehouse head, marketing head, whatever, and I. And we went to Bali. And keep in mind, so I'm about 24, my average team size, age is like 26, 27. And my older, like, you know, higher management is like 35, 36. Very young team. Intentional. Again, I didn't want an older team. So a very young group going to Bali for the first time. Most of them have not seen Bali. Most of them never been on a trip like this before. And for the first four days, we had the best time of our life. River rafting, kayaking, clubbing, you know, beautiful dinners, whatever. Like, you name it, we did it. And it was on day four that we had a bonfire. We sat down by the beach, and I told them my plan for the next five years, from 2015 to 2020, my roadmap. I'm like, hey, guys, you know, I have a plan, my next five year plan. And I want a 10x this revenue from 128 to a billion. You know, a billion a year. And every single one of Them thought the boss has lost it. Because just imagine, you know, for the last five, six years, nothing's been happening, you know, two years with me and then three, four years when you started off, and now suddenly in five years they want to.
- [31:49]
B
Well, I mean, at 24%, that means you would double every three years, which would only get you to, you know, two hundred and fifty, three hundred million. And you're like, let's go to a billion.
- [32:00]
A
Yeah, so there's about 8x10x school, like 128 to a billion. And then I spent an hour explaining to them how I'm like, look guys, this is a new concept. It's called Danube Home. You could open a 60,000 square feet store. This is the revenue you can do per year. This is what our competitors do in these markets. These are the markets we've got to enter into. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I explained to them that, look, we've done a lot of research, there is a roadmap behind it and this, this is what the plan is. Now, of course things don't work out exactly the way you plan it, right? But you have a general trajectory, which.
- [32:35]
B
I think is so important. We actually talk about this a lot with our five year plan. You can't just have this big, crazy, hairy, audacious goal, right? You have to have a way to justify him back to it.
- [32:45]
A
So there was a way, because that's.
- [32:46]
B
What people and that's exactly what you did, which gets people behind and motivated.
- [32:51]
A
And so my whole objective of this trip was I needed the buy in of all my top leaders. You know, you've seen Wolf of Wall Street. I wanted that real passionate drive with them because I couldn't do without them. I can have whatever Excel sheet I want on paper or on the computer, but if I don't have my top guys aligned with my vision and have the same passion as me, it's not going to work. Right? Especially in a startup. So this trip was extremely critical. And then I told them very clearly enough front, I'm like, hey guys, look, whatever you worked in the last five years is amazing. I'm grateful for it. But what I need from all of you for the next five years is double, triple of what you've done. I don't want people who got to look at their clock and work. And if that's something that you don't want, this is the right time to leave, tell me right now and I'm okay with it. Whatever compensation, whatever help you need, whatever letter of, you know, referral I'll sign it. But I don't want you to be working anymore if you can't, you know, be giving in that time. But I promise you, if you do give that time and the company does grow, all of you are going to be leaders in your place. And it's very important to define expectations because at that point I'm saying there's no work life balance.
- [34:05]
B
Yep.
- [34:05]
A
But you have a golden opportunity to be somewhere in five years time. So, you know, it's one guy left out of the 35.
- [34:12]
B
Wow.
- [34:13]
A
And he tried coming back multiple times over the last 10 years.
- [34:17]
B
Maybe like user grid in.
- [34:18]
A
For sure. For sure. All 34 of them work for me. Even today in 2025, all of them are leaders in their domain, having, you know, managers, having, you know, so many people under them. And if you want to know what we reached by 2020. So we didn't touch a billion because billion was limbicious. And I intentionally so always aim for the stars. Like we were taught at Harvard as well, we didn't touch a billion, but we did about 700 million. So we grew from 128 to 700 in five years. But most importantly for me, when I took over, we were at minus 10 net. This is not a beta. This is net. Yes. And by 2020 we were at 12.8% net. So there was like a 22% swing.
- [35:03]
B
So you went from 10 to 84 million or 90 million.
- [35:08]
A
From.
- [35:09]
B
From negative 10 million.
- [35:11]
A
From negative 10% or negative 10% to positive 12%. Yeah. Right. So from negative 10 to. Correct, correct. 90. 90 million. So incredible. That was the journey. And then it became my baby where, you know, it was mine. I created like, I turned it around so it's like a success story in the company became a cash cow. We were one of the fastest growing home improvement retailers. And the journey was very hard because when we started, when we tried to expand and I used to go to all these shopping malls, I'm like, hey, we have this concept we want to open. Keep in mind that time dubai had these seven, eight big retail mafia families who own like 90% of retail. So each company would have like 50 brands, 40 brands. And I'm coming in with this one brand. And then I'm like, look, I have this concept. And the mall guy was like, oh, you want to sell a commote in my shopping mall? Like a wash basin in my shopping mall? I was like, yeah, it's unique, it's different. He's like, no way. And okay, fine. So then how do you solve that? Right. It's a big road. It's a huge roadblock because how are you going to expand if the malls say no? And we've pivoted by opening massive standalone showrooms next to the best shopping malls in town.
- [36:22]
B
So similar size to an Ikea.
- [36:26]
A
No. So ikea is about 250, 300,000 square feet. We would be about 60 to 100.
- [36:31]
B
Okay, so about a half.
- [36:32]
A
But it's still.
- [36:32]
B
No, that's massive. IKEA is massive.
- [36:35]
A
It's still big.
- [36:35]
B
Yeah.
- [36:36]
A
And ikea is about 150 to 300. Yeah. House is about 60 to 100.
- [36:40]
B
Got it.
- [36:40]
A
One third.
- [36:41]
B
But similar concept from sample. Standalone. Near Correct.
- [36:45]
A
We would open in very prime locations. And you know what, we did something different was I put these massive 20 meter by 8 meter LED screens bang on the showroom, showcasing our products.
- [36:57]
B
Awesome.
- [36:58]
A
So it became like an instant buzz, you know, what's happening over here. And anyone going to the mall would pass our shop anyway and the rent would be like half. We double the size of the shop. So it kind of worked out again. So the, the lesson over here is, you know, you'll always have roadblocks in life, but how you find your way around it and how you look, look at it as, you know, a blessing in disguise is for sure what really makes you successful. So resilience is key. And, and then as time progressed, started some other businesses.
- [37:28]
B
So yeah, Fast forward to 2024. You guys started your business in 2014.
- [37:34]
A
Correct.
- [37:34]
B
So you got 10 years. You guys have branded pretty much everything. Dan Noob, right?
- [37:39]
A
Yeah.
- [37:39]
B
I mean, so just, I mean, once again, if you guys ever go to Dubai, you're gonna go and you're gonna see billboards for Danube Danube Home, Danube Real estate development. I mean, it's in the airports, it's everywhere. And so you guys are really just really parlayed off of this same brand.
- [37:55]
A
And yeah, so yeah, we've gone with that route. So Daniel Properties, Danube Building materials, Danube Sports World, Danube Home. You know, there's a lot of Danube companies right now.
- [38:05]
B
I love it.
- [38:06]
A
So real estate was interesting. Real estate we started in 2014. My dad started again and back then most of the big boys in real estate were selling these million dollar houses with no payment plans, so nobody could afford it. And if you understand Dubai, 90% of Dubai's population is expatriate. They're not Emiratis.
- [38:27]
B
Right.
- [38:28]
A
It's expats. And most of them are salaried people who couldn't have, who've been paying rent and they could never buy a home. So looking into that problem statement, you know, he. We came up with this idea, affordable housing, where you're selling studios for about a hundred, $120,000 with a 1% payment plan. So we were the first people to introduce this 1% payment plan. What is it? It is Basically, you pay 20% upfront and your remaining payment is 1% per month. So now suddenly, which for the Americans.
- [39:00]
B
In the room, 1% of the total.
- [39:02]
A
Value of the thing.
- [39:04]
B
Right. Americans automatically think financing. You're going to pay 1% financing. No, it's 1% of the total value.
- [39:10]
A
So what we did was we went to the banks. We, you know, made this bulk deal with them. We inbuilt the interest cost into our product, making it easier for us. So we. The apartment came with self financing.
- [39:21]
B
Yeah.
- [39:22]
A
And then you, you buy in this $120,000 apartment. So for. And then you're paying $1,200 a month.
- [39:28]
B
Right.
- [39:29]
A
So now suddenly the entire real estate landscape of Dubai changed because now there was this new product in town where the mass could afford. Could afford a home.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah.
- [39:42]
A
And it was an instant success. And then everyone started copying it. And what makes us really proud is because of this one single idea, suddenly, you know, thousands of people in Dubai could have their own dream home. And you know, we've had so many people come to our office like, wow, thank you so much. You know, as if like, you know, it was, it was such a. Because, you know, owning your own dream home, it's. It's one of the pivotal or, you know, nicest moment in a family's journey for sure hard for most people as well.
- [40:07]
B
And I think, I think another key just marketing aspect for what you guys did there is the, the base religion over there is Muslim. Right. And most of them believe in not paying interest. And so this also appeals to them from a standpoint of I can own a home that isn't financed. I'm just paying 1% a month without paying interest. So it kind of hit both aspects, made it affordable, made it alignment with, with the base religion, which was pretty awesome.
- [40:36]
A
So now since a lot of people copy this concept, like, what do we do next?
- [40:40]
B
Yeah.
- [40:40]
A
How do we, you know, you know, create another defense layer? And the next thing that we did was we started giving all our apartments fully furnished. Now keep in mind we have our sister company, which I started the retail company, the furniture brand. So it was much easier for us because we were the only private developer that's fully Vertically integrated. We have a building company, we have our retail furniture company. So we use that to better serve our customers. And we started giving all our apartments fully furnished, which nobody had before. And that was, you know, buy in bulk, really high end furniture for like affordable pricing.
- [41:13]
B
Yeah. Which I think brings up another just great point. Like in business, when you're really successful in one vertical, make sure the next vertical can parlay and be used at the, at the next. Because each of these businesses allowed for the next one to be even better. Right. So like. Absolutely. And so where a lot of entrepreneurs, they, they get so distracted, they see this opportunity, this shiny object, something that they don't know, don't understand, doesn't take care of any, like, you know, synergies. And just, I mean, what you guys have done is just like a master plan of building uberly successful generational wealth. Yeah.
- [41:50]
A
I mean, to each his own. But for us, having this synergy really helped all our businesses in a big way. And so that was the second thing we did. The third thing that we did was back in 2014, most of the buildings used to have four or five amenities. A pool, a kids pool, a sauna, jacuzzi, you know, maybe a kids area. And that's it. Most of the buildings. And we're like, my dad, you know, we were like, why is it so? Why can't we have a resort style living in a building? And that's when we transformed from affordable housing to affordable luxury. And we came up with these buildings. We came up with these buildings where they would have 40, 50amenities per building. So infinity pool, aquatic gym, doctor on call, paddle tennis court, badminton court, floating cinema, a golf, golf simulator, bowling alley. Like, you know, it's a huge list.
- [42:48]
B
The, the drone. The drone landing, air taxi.
- [42:52]
A
So we have a. Yeah. So one of the few new building that we launched will be having an air taxi coming soon. It's one of the first buildings to sign that up. So we just went all out. Like, we thought of every single amenity that we could think of and we just like put it in. And that worked like magic. Because if you think about it, people don't mind paying 10, 15, 20% more in a building where they're getting so much fully furnished apartments. Payment plan, you know, all these amenities, prime location. And. And the winning formula was a combination of all of this. And we were the only developer doing all four of them perfectly. Some was only doing the payment plan, some was only doing fully furnished and was only doing this. But we had the entire bundle. And because of this combination of having high value proposition for the customers immediately in a hyper competitive market like Dubai, which is the hottest, hottest real estate market you know in the world right now for real estate you have government backed companies, you have so much going on despite all the. And we were one of the newest developers. 2014 is not that far away. We ranked, you know, third in terms of sales value. So you know, it just comes down to the basics. You know my dad always says is you go to Harvard, great but follow the basics, understand the pulse of the customer, keep your staff happy, keep your customers happy, figure out what the trend is and then just make sure your execution is spot on. You know and so many of the times when we've done that it's worked. And if you see all our businesses there are two commonalities. Number one is every single business was different. So our retail business when we launched we were the only person selling bathrooms and kitchens and tiles and wallpapers and flooring and furniture all in one roof. Nobody else does that different.
- [44:37]
B
So create a unique offering.
- [44:39]
A
Second is when we launch our sports business. By the way, we launch a sports business as well. Largest sports facility in the whole of Middle East Asia. Like Dubai was big on sports so that was the only, you know, astray but that was more to connect to the community and I have a team managing it and just a fun passion, fun fashion thing. I love sports, I love paddle tennis and but I'm not involved. Like I've given it away to my like some, you know, young guy who's running it for us. But it's doing extremely well. And it's doing well because again when we did it there was people only having paddle, only football, only cricket, only badminton. But there wasn't even one indoor multi sport facility. We were the first.
- [45:17]
B
It worked amazing.
- [45:18]
A
When it came to building materials we started with nothing but then very soon became very fast. We became one of the leading building material companies because my dad got 30,000 sqs under one roof. Plywood, timber, steel, aluminum, glass, hardware, you know, ACP panels, like all veneers, laminates, you name it. Most of the guys that time plywood was plywood company, Timber is timber company. Sun Tree, Suntree company Just hyper focused, hyper. So we've always believed in this one stop kind of a solution. Whether it's sports spilling material, it's home, it's properties.
- [45:54]
B
Yeah.
- [45:55]
A
Bring everything and then give that high value proposition. And when you do that and then do something different. So when you do a combination of these three it works. But the Catalyst of all three is you need to have the best people. You gotta be transparent with them, you gotta fully empower them and you gotta give them enough stake in what you make.
- [46:22]
B
Absolutely. A little piece of the pie.
- [46:24]
A
You gotta give them a little piece of the pie. So when you do that, you have now these super smart, young, you know, ambitious people who know exactly what's going on in the company and they're running the business like it's their own, and that's the only way you can scale. And then they build their teams and then it happens. So, you know, these. This is the winning formula for us at Danube. This is what's worked for us.
- [46:43]
B
So, Adel, you, you've experienced all the success, your dad's experienced tremendous success. You've gone and forged your own path. Like, you have no need or want for money at this point. What pushes and motivates you today?
- [46:58]
A
I mean, you're absolutely right. I joined, like, YPO recently and, like, we literally spend maybe half a percent or 1% of what we make because everything is set, you know, and so we're very content with our life, lifestyle. So we're not, obviously, we're not working to change our lifestyle. And then when I went to ypo, like, a lot of people, like, why are you working? Why, why, why, why, why? And the answer to the why is, like, even if I see my dad today, he's 60, he's young, but he's still 60. And he's still working six days a week. He's working till 9pm every day.
- [47:34]
B
Which, by the way, so I was looking at his social media yesterday. It was so cute. They were, they were watching you walk across the stage at Harvard from his office. Everybody, everybody was in there. They were cheering. Oh, someone was like, hip, hip, hooray. It was cool, man. I thought, I thought, man, like, how, how cool of an example this is of, like, he's still out there working, hustling, celebrating his son. Like, so cool.
- [48:02]
A
So, yeah, you should definitely check out both our Instagram handles. I'm sure Chris is going to put it up.
- [48:06]
B
Yeah, we'll throw them down there.
- [48:07]
A
A lot of interesting content. But, yeah, we're super close in family. We're actually four generations staying together in one house also.
- [48:15]
B
Small house, of course.
- [48:18]
A
Yeah.
- [48:21]
B
No, that's so cool. I think, I think a lot of people have gotten away from that. Right? Like, we have several friends that live in Dubai that are from, like, your similar heritage or whatnot, where traditionally families live together, where they're not doing it as much. And so like the fact that you still value.
- [48:37]
A
We have our values. We have our values. You know, we're very close in family and we all. And, and don't get me wrong, you know, I spoke a lot about work. I also have a lot of fun in life. I travel a lot, you know, with my wife, my three lovely kids, you know, so I'm blessed. I mean, I can't ask for. I think I'm privileged. So to answer your question, I think it'd be foolish for someone being the only child in my platform to have all this opportunity to make so much value in community and then just throw it away because I wanna, you know, just travel and do nothing. Like how that make any sense?
- [49:12]
B
Right?
- [49:12]
A
Why can't you just have it all? Why can't you travel? Why can't you have your family? Why can't you work your ass off? Why can't you do it all? Yeah. I always believe it's never a trade off, that, hey, don't work, just do this or just work, don't do that. So I think it's important to do it all. And the only way you can do it is have a very organized life. Yeah. And then make sure your time counts.
- [49:38]
B
Which, which obviously you. You live what you preach. I mean, the reason why we know each other is because we were both furthering our education at Harvard Business School and being a part of the OPM program. And so, like, you know, anybody in that program, I respect just for that aspect. But even more, I respect that one thing I recognized immediately from you was like, this is not a guy that's just checking a box for his family. Right. Like, we're. There's a handful of those type of people in our, in our program. They're just like, hey, dad wants me here, mom wants me here, whatever. This is the only way I can take over the business where you had already forged your own path. And so, like, what you're saying, I believe is. Is true. Like, you are truly a man that values it all and wants it all. I appreciate that about you for sure. Yeah. So, dude, I appreciate the time that we've been able to spend not only on the podcast, but just over the last couple years with, with Harvard. You know, the. The interesting thing is, like, the world, the world is small. You know, there's lots of opportunity to get out there. But for those that haven't gone to Dubai, sell us on Dubai real quick, habibi.
- [50:46]
A
Come to Dubai. It is the best place for me, at least in the world. And for many reasons. Number one, one of the safest cities in the world. Number two, you get the best of both worlds. You have culture, but you also have a very modern society where, you know, everything is. So you have the super bling, but you also have, you know, something which is culturally sound. Number three, you have the, you know, some of the best restaurants over there. Number four, if you want to shift to Dubai, no taxes. I mean, we're paying nothing.
- [51:17]
B
Unless you're American.
- [51:18]
A
Unless, I mean, if you're American, you got to pay tax no matter where you live.
- [51:22]
B
Right. They got the hooks in us, but.
- [51:24]
A
But otherwise, you know, just like 5% VAT, they've just introduced 9% corporate tax. And wow, there's no income tax, no inheritance tax, no property tax, there's no tax. So it's amazing. We get whatever you, whatever we earn, we take home.
- [51:39]
B
You know, Dubai is the one place on earth that makes me think maybe a monarchy can work.
- [51:44]
A
You know, it does. And, and I highly recommend you should. You know, one of my biggest idols, you know, is His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, who's the ruler of Dubai. Read his book, the Sheikh CEO. It is fantastic the way he's transformed Dubai from a desert to one of the top cities in the world in 30 years.
- [52:02]
B
Unbelievable.
- [52:04]
A
We are who we are because of him.
- [52:05]
B
Yeah.
- [52:06]
A
I mean, if Dubai wasn't a success story, it would have been much harder for us to, you know, get this kind of success. So we've kind of piggybacked on that and we're lucky, blessed to be at the right place, the right time and. Yeah, and, and even from an investment point of view, if you ever invest in Dubai, the rental yields are very high. You get anywhere from 6 to 8%. You know, typically around the world, it's only 1%. Even the price per square feet for the kind of buildings I was talking about, it's still very undervalued. Like you can get something in the heart of Dubai with 50 plus amenities, furniture, payment plan for about 700 a foot, which is very reasonable when you compare to New York, London, Singapore, Hong Kong, Mumbai, any of these top tier cities.
- [52:52]
B
And that's fully furnished.
- [52:54]
A
Yeah, fully furnished. So, wow. Think about Dubai as your, if not your first home, at least your second home. And if you don't want to invest, just come with your family, you know, in the winters, and I'm sure you're going to like it.
- [53:04]
B
It's. It's one of the most amazing places in the world. In fact, I I went and celebrated my 40th birthday with Adel and his family.
- [53:11]
A
That was great.
- [53:11]
B
Yeah, it was a fantastic time. Instantly one of my favorite, if not my most favorite, cities in the world. And so the fact that you guys have been behind the construction and development of it is just, like, speaks so much to you guys. So, Otto, thank you so much for being on the show. Until next time, thank you.