#135: "You can't master selling by reading books" Mastering Tonality

Summary

Next Level Pros Podcast Episode #135: "You Can't Master Selling by Reading Books" – Mastering Tonality

Release Date: January 24, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #135 of Next Level Pros, host Chris Lee engages in a compelling conversation with Jeremy Miner, a renowned sales trainer and founder of 7th Level—one of the largest B2C sales training companies globally. The episode delves deep into the psychology of sales, emphasizing the critical role of tonality in mastering the art of selling. Jeremy shares his journey from door-to-door sales to building a multimillion-dollar enterprise, offering invaluable insights for both aspiring and seasoned sales professionals.

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Guest Background and Achievements

Jeremy Miner boasts an impressive 17-year career in sales, recognized as the 45th highest-earning producer out of over 108 million salespeople worldwide. His company, 7th Level, has been lauded by Selling Power Magazine as the largest B2C sales training company and the third largest overall when combining B2C and B2B sectors.

Notable Achievements:

• Inc. 5000 Rankings: Jeremy’s company reached #132 and later #12 on the Inc. 5000 list, demonstrating significant annual revenue growth.
• Sales Expertise: Transitioned from door-to-door sales with lucrative commissions to high-level B2B sales, earning multiple seven-figure incomes even without managing teams directly.

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The Importance of Tonality in Sales

A central theme of the episode is the paramount importance of tonality in sales interactions. Jeremy argues that understanding and mastering tone can significantly outperform scripted dialogues and traditional sales techniques.

Key Insights:

• Tonality Over Scripts: "I can have the worst script ever. And if I master tonality, I'm going to outsell those reps that have, let's say, I write the script for them, the best script, and they don't know us. Tonality. I'll sell them five to one just with the tonality." (26:38)
• Five Core Tonalities: Jeremy outlines five essential tonalities—curious, confused, challenging, concerned, and playful—and how each can be strategically applied to engage prospects effectively.

Quote:

"The tonality and the melody causes your brain to retain the information. That's why salespeople think they're going to buy a book for $27 and quadruple their sales, but they can't retain it because there's no tone, there's no melody." – Jeremy Miner (25:29)

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Sales Psychology and Decision-Making

Jeremy emphasizes the significance of understanding the psychological factors that influence a buyer's decision-making process. He criticizes the conventional approach of handling objections after they arise, advocating instead for preventing objections through strategic interaction.

Key Points:

• Preventing Objections: Instead of reacting to "no," focus on the underlying triggers that cause prospects to hesitate.
• Behavioral Science Application: Leveraging his background in behavioral science to dissect and influence the decision-making pathways of potential buyers.

Quote:

"I think most salespeople, they don't really understand the psychology behind how the brain actually makes decisions." – Jeremy Miner (00:04)

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Transition from B2C to B2B Sales

Jeremy discusses his strategic shift from door-to-door B2C sales to high-level B2B sales, highlighting the challenges and adjustments required to succeed in a different sales environment.

Key Insights:

• Skill Adaptation: Mastering tonality was pivotal in transitioning from B2C to B2B, allowing him to navigate longer sales cycles and larger deals.
• Learning Continuously: Emphasizes the importance of ongoing skill development and adaptability in diverse sales contexts.

Quote:

"The biggest factor that took me from the jump between door to door to more B2B high level was mastering tonality." – Jeremy Miner (00:32)

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Managing Business Growth and Structure

As 7th Level scaled, Jeremy encountered challenges related to managing a growing team and maintaining effective decision-making processes. He underscores the importance of assembling a competent leadership team to drive the company's vision.

Key Points:

• Leadership Balance: Differentiating between department heads who contribute positively and those whose decisions may hinder growth.
• Visionary Role: Jeremy identifies himself as the visionary, focusing on communication and strategy, while delegating operational responsibilities to trusted executives.

Quote:

"I'm the founder and the majority shareholder. And then we have a CEO, business partner... I would be the visionary, I would be the face of the company." – Jeremy Miner (07:14)

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Overcoming Challenges and Mindset Shifts

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the mental resilience required to thrive in sales. Jeremy shares personal anecdotes about overcoming adversity and the mindset shifts that propelled his success.

Key Insights:

• Fear of Failure: Transitioning from a fear-based motivation ("I don't want to feel poor") to a purpose-driven mindset ("I want to help more people").
• Resilience: Drawing strength from past hardships to maintain perseverance in the face of challenges.

Quote:

"I was just flying back to Missouri and you'd never hear from me again. And that made way more money." – Jeremy Miner (39:36)

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Practical Sales Techniques

Jeremy provides actionable strategies for salespeople aiming to enhance their effectiveness. He highlights the nuances of question structuring and the strategic use of tonality to guide conversations.

Key Techniques:

• Permission-Based Questions: "Can I ask you something before we get off the phone?" encourages openness without triggering defensiveness.
• Frame Reversal: Leading prospects to justify their need for the product rather than convincing them to buy.
• Avoiding Scripting Traps: Encouraging flexibility in conversations to sound authentic and responsive to the prospect's cues.

Quote:

"You can't Master selling by reading books because they're just words. ... you have to have video courses. You have to have in person. You have to have virtual. And that causes your brain to retain it because they hear the tonality." – Jeremy Miner (24:28)

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Episode #135 offers a wealth of knowledge for anyone involved in sales. Jeremy Miner's emphasis on tonality and psychological insight presents a paradigm shift from traditional sales methodologies. His experiences underscore the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and a resilient mindset in achieving and sustaining sales excellence.

Final Thoughts:

• Beyond Scripts: Effective sales hinge more on how you communicate than what you communicate.
• Continuous Improvement: Embrace ongoing skill development and psychological understanding to stay ahead.
• Purpose-Driven Selling: Align your sales objectives with meaningful goals to enhance motivation and impact.

Final Quote:

"You have to learn how to take what the prospect says and be able to tweak your next question and tie in what they just said to that question." – Jeremy Miner (17:46)

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Additional Resources

For those interested in delving deeper into Jeremy Miner's sales methodologies, consider exploring his best-selling books:

• New Model of Selling
• Selling Unsellable Generation
• The Big Orange Book

Follow Jeremy on Instagram @JeremyLeeMiner or reach out via text at 480-637-2944 for personalized insights and training opportunities.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights from the podcast episode. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Chris]

What do you see as like the most like three important things that somebody's got to master?

[Jeremy Miner]

I think most salespeople, they don't really understand the psychology behind how the brain actually makes decisions. Me being a behavioral science and human psychology, like I geeked out on the stuff at university and I studied it like a mofo. With any personality I'm focused on how do I disarm the prospect where they let their guard down, how do I disarm them where they start to emotionally open up. And a lot of it is just strictly with your tonality.

[Chris]

So tonality and obviously even the structure of the question. Right?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. I was still learning skills all the time and the biggest factor that took me from the jump between door to door to more B2B high level was mastering tonality.

[Chris]

Hey guys. In today's episode we're going to be interviewing Jeremy Minor. Jeremy, as you guys are going to come to find out, is an absolute stud when it comes to sales training. In this episode, we dive into the psychology of sales. What it is to really understand tonality. This is something that isn't being taught by any other sales trainer out there. You're going to absolutely love this episode. Let's dive in. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Next Level Pros podcast. Today I have the opportunity to be here in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona with a friend, associate, but more importantly, an incredible businessman, Mr. Jeremy Miner. So a lot of you guys have seen him across different social media channels. He is most well known for training in the sales space, which for me is incredible because I absolutely love the sales aspect of any business. That's where I've always just had my fingers on the heartbeat of any business. Jeremy. During his 17 year career, he was recognized in the direct selling industry as the 45th highest earning producer out of more than 108 million salespeople selling anything worldwide. That's pretty phenomenal, Jeremy. Jeremy's earnings as a commission only sales rep were multiple seven figures every year.

[Jeremy Miner]

That was after alarms.

[Chris]

After alarms. Yeah. That wasn't happening in the door to door space back in the day, I'll tell you. So he is a. He owns a company called 7th Level. They were ranked as the largest B2C sales training company in the world and the third overall largest sales training company in the world for B2C and B2B combined by the prestigious Selling power magazine. I know you've gotten several different awards.

[Jeremy Miner]

Not grandma, just just on annual revenues.

[Chris]

I love it. I love it. And I know you've gotten Several different awards. You've been in the Inc. 5, 500, 5000. What was the highest ranking on that?

[Jeremy Miner]

I think the. We didn't turn in last year, but the year before, I think we were 132nd or something. I know you were like, number six.

[Chris]

We were. We were 12th on each. 12th on the ink post.

[Jeremy Miner]

I'm like, yeah, damn it. I thought it was good. 132. 12th.

[Chris]

You know, the funny thing is, the year that we got 12th, we would have been fourth the previous year for the same growth. Yeah. And we were. We were six for Financial Times is what. Because Financial Times threw out, like, a few of the guys that were, like, acquired and stuff like that. Hey, guys, it's Chris. Hey. A lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favorite. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.

[Jeremy Miner]

Oh, and we submitted financials in 2021 and 2022, and we thought it was really cool until one day we literally lost a big B2B deal because they looked at that as like, oh, you guys are growing too fast.

[Chris]

Oh.

[Jeremy Miner]

And it started thinking, I'm like, oh. I thought like, us growing so f companies would be like, they must be doing something really good. But in larger corporations, that's a little bit of a risk because as you know, sometimes you grow too fast. You go out of business because you don't know how to run the business. So.

[Chris]

Right. So they were a little.

[Jeremy Miner]

So in 2023, we're like, we're not submitting to Inc 5000. We don't care about the. The fast thing anymore. It's interesting, right? Never thought about it that way.

[Chris]

Interesting was that it was a pretty big deal.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah. Well. Yeah. So, guys, I'm excited to have Jeremy on the. On the pod. Welcome to the show. It's, you know, I. Big fan of your work. Love. We actually have a sales guy that works with us that just loves you. Like, he. He puts you on, like, the highest pedestal. It's like, God, Jeremy Minor.

[Jeremy Miner]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris]

All right.

[Jeremy Miner]

We gotta figure out what course he's.

[Chris]

In that's good for him. So I know he. He did your nlpq.

[Jeremy Miner]

Npq. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah. A while. A while back. And. And so he. He utilizes a lot of your strategies and. Interesting. So yeah, so. So, Jeremy, you've been building this incredible business in the sales space, which I would say, I mean, for the amount of revenue and the amount of employees, like, is very impressive.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm just the. I'm just the founder. You know, I don't run the business anymore. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't say, like, you know, just me interviewing you guys on the show. I'm like, okay, these guys have different skills than I would have. Right. So, you know, do I know how to scale a company to, you know, 100 million year 500? No, I've never done that. Right. Do I know how to train salespeople to sell more? Do I know how to recruit top talent? Do I know do those things? Yes. So it's like you said, it's about bringing in the right people where you're weak in and hiring them for their strengths. Right. Or making them your partner for their strengths. And that really caused you to grow.

[Chris]

That's interesting. So what would you say? So obviously you're more centered on the sales side, but from a business standpoint, like, what are some of the bottlenecks that you're working on and you're hoping to get you to the next level?

[Jeremy Miner]

I think, you know, we're. We're at a level where it's like in. In revenue, you know, and I still compare my. I always compare myself to like, Vivint, so I always still feel like a small ant, you know, like, oh, 160 employees, like, just so tiny compared to the space that we came from. You know what I'm saying? So, but for our industry, that's big. The biggest thing that we're working on is as we're scaling, you know, we're bringing in department heads, and sometimes, you know, you'll have some department heads that you fully trust.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Jeremy Miner]

Every. It's almost like every decision they make is just gold. It's money and it works. Then you have some other department heads where maybe they got into that position and they weren't as qualified position. And some of the decisions, you know, set you back a little bit. So it's finding that balance between, you know, still being able to run the business and scale and take a little bit of risk compared to being so corporate that you just don't take any risk and it's more slow growth. So it's finding that balance.

[Chris]

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, obviously you have the department heads in place. Like, what does the rest of your management structure look like? Are you. Where are you fitting in it? Are you off to the side?

[Jeremy Miner]

I'm the founder of the majority shareholder. And then we have a CEO, right. Business partner. We have, we have cfo, obviously. We have managing director, senior vice president, CEO. We have the, you know, the, the sea level executives.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Jeremy Miner]

And then below them, we some, in some, we have a VP or director of those, like director of fulfillment. Above them would be the vice president of fulfillment. You know, same thing is basically, you know, we have a CRO, you know.

[Chris]

So, so do you still consider yourself like the visionary that you're helping, like, drive the vision and direction?

[Jeremy Miner]

I would be the vision. I would, yeah. I mean, I'm the face, I'm the visionary of the company.

[Chris]

Yep. And you know, your CEO is more the integrator.

[Jeremy Miner]

More the integrator? Yeah, more the integrator. The, the business guy that, that handles that kind of stuff. So when you have an idea, you know they're going to go punch numbers with the cfo, does it, you know, sounds like a great idea, but you know, we punch the numbers, like, maybe it's not so profitable for that. So, yeah, I think, yeah, you have to have that. So, like, you know, when you first started, you're like, hey, I got all these great ideas. You're the visionary. Let's just go spend, spend, spend. But then you don't realize, like, oh, it's not so profitable what I just did.

[Daryl]

So what does this business look like in five, 10 years? Like, where do you, where are you trying to land?

[Jeremy Miner]

So when I started seventh level, I knew we would never be just sales training. Now on the front end, we'll always be sales training because that's what we're known at. That's where we've gotten so, so much results. On the back end though, we have the assets now. So in the third quarter of 2025, we are now going to have a division that's a recruiting staffing agency. Awesome. On the the company side because we, we probably, you know, we have a big Facebook group sales revolution, about160,000 people growing every day. And we probably have, I, I, I'm not exaggerating. Probably close to a hundred employers a day that try to post in there, like, hey, looking for 10 reps for a medical device, looking for, could be solar, whatever. And so they come to us like literally offering to pay us for like certified reps in our training programs for their industries. And we just don't have an infrastructure to even offer that yet.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

We have an email list of over a Million salespeople.

[Chris]

Yeah. So a done for you agency from a recruiting standpoint is no brainer.

[Jeremy Miner]

It's not like we had to start doing Covid right in staffing and recruiting. That's a huge industry we already trained in. Yeah. So we, we already understand that space like the background. We train tons of companies in that. So it's just kind of a natural fit to have that back end model. Kind of like a grant. Cardone has sales train, but then real estate. My buddy Pace Moreby, you know, selling, coaching how to do real estate. But then on the back end every, every client brings him deals and they split them 50, 50, you know, so it's that back end revenue. So we have, we're just, you know, we've created the assets for that the last five years and now we're bringing the right people to run that.

[Chris]

That's exciting. So seventh level. What's, what's the meaning of seventh level?

[Jeremy Miner]

You know, it's interesting. I've only had a few people ever asked me that. So. So, so I went to uvu, Utah University. And my major is behavioral science, human psychology, but I minored in world religions. And so in every world religion, you know, I'm Elvis like you guys. Every world religion. So I'm talking about, I'm not talking about religion now. I'm talking about like ancient Christianity. So maybe from, you know, 30 AD to maybe 350 AD. I'm talking about Islam at the beginning. I'm talking about, you know, even Buddhism. I talk Hinduism, I'm talking about even religions. In Mesopotamia, they had this one core belief that pretty much it was a universal belief that there were different levels of heaven. Okay. Not like one heaven and hell like a lot of religions believe now. And at the highest level, the seventh level, like look it up. It's crazy. God dwelt in the seventh level. And to attain that level, you had to be perfected like God. You had to overcome the world, you know, do those type of things. Things. And so that's where I came up with the concept.

[Chris]

Love it.

[Jeremy Miner]

Seventh level of communication. Perfecting your communication skills.

[Chris]

We're going to have to have a separate conversation about religion off camera because I have some very interesting beliefs that probably differ a little bit from exactly, you know, the, the way I was raised. I'm, I'm an active member of the LDS faith.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

But yeah, the, it is interesting when you go and you study these world religions and really able to identify different truths that come from.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, I think there's. Every religion has A lot of truth in it for sure, mixed in with some man made stuff, including our own faith, you know, a little bit of man made stuff here and there too. So I'm all about talking about. I, you know, I believe in some crazy things too. That might be outside the norm, but I think that's good. And whether they're right or not, I guess we'll find out. You know, we'll all find out.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah. Happy to talk with you. Like I said, a little bit more offline. It might not be very entertaining for.

[Daryl]

The group, but I've got a question for you. So, so look at the industry, the sales industry. What, what businesses are, are needing salespeople the most and then as a salesperson, what are the best opportunities you see if you're looking for a good opportunity?

[Jeremy Miner]

This is a, this is a hard one for me because we, I mean we're in every vertical at this point in the, in the subcategories, like you know, Tommy's vertical, like home improvement, home services. You got, you know, garages, doors, windows, carpet, countertops, everything. And that's a huge industry where we see a ton of our clients like crush it. Right. And you would even think like, you know, oh, cabinet salesperson's making 500 grand a year. But there are a lot of people out there that do that. Solar is a huge opportunity. It's a big space. We train in life insurance. Huge. Whereas a lot of life insurance agents might suck and don't make any money. We're like, well, the industry is doing trillions of dollars a year, so it's based on their skill level.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

Whereas door to door is a huge opportunity. You might have a lot of people that don't do well at it. But still huge industry. So what's different skill level for sure? Medical device sales. I mean I could keep going on. It's such a, it's a hard one to answer because most of it, unless you're selling $10 magazine prescriptive subscriptions, door to door is based on really your earnings are going to be based on your skill level.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Daryl]

So would you, would you say there's like a ticket size that, if you have a ticket size of at least this, there's a level where you, you'll make.

[Jeremy Miner]

I see a lot of truth to that also. But I could sell. I've got, you know, we have life insurance reps in our training program that do over seven figures a year in commissions. Wow. You're selling 150amonth life insurance policy.

[Chris]

So are These guys just figuring out how to get to one to many versus a one on one type sale.

[Jeremy Miner]

A lot of it is just one to one and then may they start building out teams and we teach them how to recruit and then they get overrides as well. So it's such a hard one because then you know, we have solar salespeople. You know, as you know, you might have a solar salesperson that can't sell anything and then you got a guy come in that makes, you know, 1.5 million commissions the next year. Is it the industry or is it the skill level? Sometimes it's a little bit of both. But I think higher ticket stuff on average is a better opportunity. You just have to have a higher skill level to be able to sell it. You know, it's different than going from like pest control to solar, right? You have to have a higher sales.

[Chris]

Yeah, 5, $500 revenue or ticket value versus yeah, 48,000 exactly, a little bit.

[Jeremy Miner]

So I would say higher ticket. I don't want to give a straight jacket interpretation that because I see life insurance, others, but I would say higher ticket is going to be a better opportunity.

[Chris]

So when, when you talk about skill level, like where are, what do you see as like the, the most like three important things that somebody's got to master.

[Jeremy Miner]

I think most salespeople, they don't really understand the psychology behind how the brain actually makes decisions. So me being in behavioral science and human psychology, like I geeked out on the stuff at university and I studied it like a mofo. So when I, when I first started door to door like you guys did, when I knock on a door, if they slammed the door said no. Most reps in door to be like, oh you know, this neighborhood's bad or they're all broke, they have a bad mindset. But I'm, I was thinking like, oh, like I said earlier, like what did I say or what did I like do there that triggered them to react that way, right? Because I wanted to like get inside their mind, right? Because I figured like if I can learn what triggers somebody to say no or what triggers I want to think it over or what triggers I need to talk to my spouse and if I could learn how to like get rid of that out of their mind by default, I'm just going to sell more. So I always focused on like how do I prevent these objections from happening rather than like how do I handle them. Because if I did get an objection, I'm like, oh, I did something wrong upstream. That triggered them to Think this way. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so I.

[Chris]

True.

[Jeremy Miner]

You know, it's like Tom Brady, Right. It's like in the NFL, the more interceptions you throw, the more fumbles you lose, less likely you win the game. So I always looked at sales the same way. Like, the less mistakes I make, right. I'm unlikely to lose the sale. The more mistakes I make, I'm likely to not get the sale. So I just. I thought about selling differently. So I think the first thing is understanding the psychology behind why a person buys or doesn't buy. Would you.

[Chris]

Would you say that has to do with, like. So what I teach is, like, the four different type of buyers, like, the buying personalities, Right. You have aggressive and social and different. Like, do you think. I think a lot of things.

[Jeremy Miner]

Think. I think there's a lot of truth in that. I focus more on, like, with any personality, I'm focused on how do I disarm the prospect where they let their guard down.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Jeremy Miner]

Because if. And that's with any person, especially with an A type. Right. Because, you know, the A type start to bowl you over. So, like, how do I disarm them where they start to emotionally open up? And a lot of it is just strictly with your tonality.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

So, like, I would. Let's say the. The prospect, like, yeah, come on in, or whatever. And. And I. I literally would do this all the time. I'd be like, now, hold on. Hold up before I come in. Like, you're not gonna get mad at me if I can't end up helping you, are you? Oh, God, we would never get mad at you. See how I'm triggering them to, like, pull me in because I'm using, like, this concern, like, tone, right? And they're. Oh, God, I would never. Or I'd be like, hold on. You. You're not gonna get angry at me if I don't take off my shoes? Like, I don't want to. Oh, we would never get angry. So I'm just triggering them to, like, come to my side and pull me in. So by the time I get to anything, they're just already bought in. So what happens with your tonality?

[Chris]

So tonality and obviously the. Even the structure of the question. Right?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Hey, guys, it's Chris. Hey. A lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry, I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby.

[Jeremy Miner]

And it's, it's, it's not even. Cause we, you know, when we train any pq, the you know how to ask these questions, we see a lot of new clients where they come in and they're like, I've just got to ask these questions on my script. I got to memorize these canned lines. And like, that's good. You need a script, but you need to understand how to be flexible with said script. Because you have to learn, like, once you understand, like, okay, I need to ask, let's say we call them connection questions to take the prospect out of price or cost based thinking immediately start again to results based thinking. And I also need to get them to let their guard down. So what if the prospect tells me something different from my first question? Do I need to ask this next question there? Not necessarily, because then it sounds almost like I'm scripted. Like I didn't really listen to what they just said. Right. So that you have to learn how to take what the prospect says and be able to tweak your next question and tie in what they just said to that question. And if you don't understand the psychology behind where you're at in that sales process, you're just going to sound scripted, monotone, like a salesperson. And then their guard is up and they stay surface level.

[Chris]

So as a salesperson, what. When was your biggest jump or what was your biggest jump in commissions? Like, from one year over the other?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. So my, my best summer doing alarms, I managed an office. Okay, we did. I think we did a couple thousand accounts, which back in the day, that.

[Chris]

Was like, that was crazy.

[Jeremy Miner]

I think we're the second office in any company ever done a couple thousand. And that was with less than 20 guys. 16 guys at the end. But the, you know, Average guy's doing 150. 100.

[Chris]

That's wild.

[Jeremy Miner]

You know, it's good because we. I just train them all the time. I go door to door. And I myself as a Manager, I installed three, I think 380 some accounts that summer myself, like installs, but summer, that was my best. Now that was back. I don't know what you guys were getting paid, but that was me negotiating.

[Chris]

You're probably making 350, 400 a deal.

[Jeremy Miner]

480 a deal. And then when, when I got with Apex, which later became Bivot, when me and Jared, like half of, sorry, Pinnacle, half of the company, with us over to Vivint, I think we had to sign an NDA. Probably out of the NDA by now. It was like 650 a deal and we were just like, oh my God, we're rich. 650 a deal. This is crazy. It was like 80 or 100 in override. I don't know what they get paid now.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

But so that was a jump. But then I, I just got, you know, Jared ended up staying as a regional manager. I just wanted to get out because I was tired of. I had three kids at the time. I was like moving around every summer. I'm just like, dude, like I've got these skills, I need to go do something else.

[Chris]

And you went and did what?

[Jeremy Miner]

I got into B2B Enterprise. So I started selling debt relief services.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Jeremy Miner]

So now I went from door to door selling to consumers, right. For 50 bucks a month or whatever's for three or five year contract, same day installs to. Then I have to go learn how to cold call to companies. Some, you know, some Fortune 1000, but primarily more SMB. Okay. Like companies that were doing anywhere from let's say 20 million on the low end to maybe a couple hundred to 300 million a year on the top. Some, some larger companies, but mainly that. So you know, getting them out of debt and stuff like that. Cold calling. So these were much bigger deals, longer sales cycles. So I had to learn. But the same concepts were the cases door to door. How do I interrupt their pattern on a cold call rather than the door? So I just had to learn that. Okay. And then that next year I made close to 800 grand in commissions.

[Chris]

You made 800 grand and then you, you got up to like multiple seven figures.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Then the next year I went to like 1.3 million a year. Then I went to like 2 million a year.

[Chris]

So what was like the biggest thing that bridged you from 800 grand to 200 million or 2 million? Like what? I mean, as a, as a single sales rep, were you managing teams at this time and getting overrides? Okay.

[Jeremy Miner]

So I didn't want to get into management. Right. So I made way less.

[Chris]

Right. So, so what, like help identify what got you there?

[Jeremy Miner]

I would say just I was still learning skills all the time. And the biggest factor that, that took me from the jump between door to door to more B2B high level was mastering tonality. Like not kidding. And it sounds simple because salespeople was come to us like, what's the best closing line? How do I close them? I'm like, whoa, whoa, Whoa. Nobody makes a buying decision when you use some option close at the end. You want to install Tuesday or what? Like that's not when they decide to buy. If they say Tuesday, that means they already decided to buy before you ask that question. It's not like that caused them to buy, right? So I had to. I really. Because it's not really taught in door to door, right. So when I was in door to door, though, I started. I hired an acting coach in Hollywood. And in the off season, I would literally fly out there every other weekend and spend a Saturday. I paid this guy a lot of money to teach me tonality. So we, we focus on the five core tonalities. There's a curious tone, there's a confused tone, right? Like you're, you're not understanding something, so you draw them in. In certain contexts, you have a challenging tone. Once you build a gap, you build trust. You're not going to challenge somebody the very beginning. Then you have a concern tone, a tone that shows more empathy, right? And then you have a playful tone. Right now there's subcategories of all this tone. There's like the familiar tone when you cold call. So I had to learn like how to become familiar, right? So the prospect in B2B. And it's fun. Like, you know XYZ, you know company, this is John or whatever. Like, yeah, hey, John, it's Jeremy. Jeremy Miner with XYZ company And I kept going and what does that do in their brain?

[Chris]

Like, who's question, how do I know this guy?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yes. Because I sound familiar, right? It's like if somebody calls you, you're like, it's Amy, Amy Smith. How are you, Darryl? And you're like, I'm great. How are you?

[Chris]

Versus, Versus, like, hey, is Darrell. Is this Darrell?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, Darrell, this is Jeremy with XYZ company. The reason why I called you, so it's a pattern rupture. So I had the principle was there. So. But I had to learn more tonality, like the familiar tone.

[Chris]

And so you, you attribute this to this acting coach. Was there anybody else that, that, that taught you to know?

[Jeremy Miner]

I just kept learning tonality from just different people. You don't, you don't learn tonight. In books, the biggest fault that salespeople, the biggest thing that stops them is they think they're going to master sales by reading books. And we've got a couple, you know, we get Barnes Noble bestseller books. But I always tell them, like, look, a book is an introduction. It's an introduction. You can't Master selling by reading books because they're just words. And you know why you can't master. I'll give you an example. This is really clear. What's your favorite song? That if I said sing that song, you could almost sing it word for word. Like, literally.

[Chris]

I love. I love a lot of things. Tim McGraw. So don't take the girl.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, so you sing that down. What's yours?

[Daryl]

My favorite song?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, just. You don't sing it word for word.

[Daryl]

I mean, I don't know why I started thinking of Garth Brooks, but that was more when I was young.

[Jeremy Miner]

Okay, so let's say a Garth Brooks song. Yeah, you just start singing off the top of your head. You love the song, you've heard it. You're. You're. It's in your subconscious, so it comes your conscious. What's your favorite book you've read multiple times?

[Chris]

I mean, I love a lot of different books. I would say Atomic Habits.

[Jeremy Miner]

Okay, you've read that. What about yours?

[Daryl]

Outwitting the Devil.

[Jeremy Miner]

Okay, so you've read several times for the song. Several times. There's about 330 words in an average song, and in one page of the average book, it's about 330 words. Can you recite word for word any page of your favorite book?

[Chris]

No, just a couple concepts, but that's it.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yet your favorite song has the same amount of words, and you recite it word for word. Why?

[Chris]

Tonality?

[Jeremy Miner]

The tonality and the melody causes your brain to retain the information. That's why salespeople, they think they're going to buy a book for 27 bucks and, like, quadruple their sales, but they can't retain it because there's no tone, there's no melody. Even when you're doing the. The book audios, you can't really teach tonality in a book audio because, like, the way it's set up, you have to. Basically, that's you, the person, have to read from the book word for word.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

So you can't teach to an app. That's why you have to have video courses. You have to have in person. You have to have virtual. And that causes your brain to retain it because they hear the tonality.

[Chris]

So you would attribute tonality as like, the number one skill that a salesperson needs to.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, because your tone is how the prospect interprets why you're asking the questions, like the meaning behind your questions. Right. So there's not a lot of sales trainers that talk about. I know Jordan Belfort talks a little bit about tonality. But for me, I can. I can have the worst script ever. And if I master tonality, I'm going to outsell those reps that have, let's say I write the script for them, the best script, and they don't know us. Tonality. I'll sell them five to one just with the tonality.

[Chris]

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I've studied a lot of sales gurus, read all the books and everything else, and very few people address it. Some live trainings a little bit, but it's more of like, mirror the customer. Right. Like that. That is addressing tonality, but not in the same exact way.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. And I like. I like mirroring. The. The only problem with mirroring that I found, this is just my. My personal thoughts, is that when you're talking to a friend that you trust, would it be awkward for you if they started repeating back everything you said? Yeah. So that's why I don't understand why salespeople think that if they repeat back things that the prospect says, that the prospect is somehow going to trust them. Because it doesn't sound like a natural conversation.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

It sounds salesy.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

So what I learned how to do is to get the prospects to mirror me. So a lot of people are like, you got to mirror the prospect. Like, if they move in, you move in. I'm like, well, why not learn how to get them to do what you're doing? Because then they're qualifying to you rather than you qualifying to them. Because I always say, who. Who has the problems? The prospect or you? The prospect has the problems. You are the one that solved them, so why are you qualified to them?

[Daryl]

I think one of the things I learned early on in my sales career was I would mirror the customer, and then I would have it shift to where then they became. They would mirror me.

[Jeremy Miner]

That's why you.

[Daryl]

And that's when I knew that I had the control or I had the.

[Jeremy Miner]

They were starting to qualify to you. And what you guys were saying earlier is you were detached from the outcome. The biggest thing is when you get to a certain skill level, you are far more detached because you're. You're in control of the conversation. The prospect feels like they're in control, though, but you are really the one in control. And a lot of people, they'll be like, oh, you know, any pq, It's. It's just. It's not aggressive enough. I'm like, actually, it's the most aggressive methodology out there. Because the prospect never feels like they were sold.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Miner]

So when you're aggressive, the prospect feels the pressure. They feel, feel like they're being sold. That's why they get triggered. That's why they throw out so many objections. But if I can prevent most objections from happening, because they don't feel like they're being sold, they almost feel like they're trying to convince you to let them pay you to solve their problems. That's pretty damn aggressive because they don't feel like they're ever sold. It's like the Chinese like the Art of War, right? It's like they won the war by getting the country to self destruct from the inside without firing a shot. That's the most aggressive war.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In our, in our organizations, one of the things I always help is like we call it identifying the pain. And it's just through questions, right? And, and really like helping the customer identify where they actually sit. So they're looking for the solution. Like they're just begging for the solution.

[Jeremy Miner]

And it's getting them to be open enough to tell you their pain. Because I think a lot of questions that every industry asks, you know, that are just the standard questions, like the prospects know where those questions are leading, right? So they kind of go surface level because it's like, you know the water filter sales guy that cold calls you like, do you like drinking water? Yes. Like that's a dumb question, right? So instantly you're triggered, like it doesn't make any sense, right? So it's just, it's, it's, it's asking the question, but it's, it's kind of like reversing the frame. So like, let's say if I sold, you know, let's say if I sold life insurance, you know, a life insurance salesperson, standard question, be like, hey, you know, what are you looking for in a policy? Or you know, what's, what's a, what's an issue you're having that caused you to come to us? And well, the pros, most prospects know where that leads to. So I might, I might lead with a different question. Not the first question, might be like, okay, so help me understand, you've already got this sixty thousand dollar word policy. I mean, what's, what's cause you to feel like that's not going to be enough. Well, I mean, it's not enough because now they're defending themselves on why it's not enough and why they need more. See, I'm getting them to defend themselves and qualify to me why they need me. Whereas other salespeople are trying to convince the prospect now is convincing me why they want what I have.

[Daryl]

You know, it's interesting you're saying this in regards to sales. I think this applies also to recruiting.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Right.

[Daryl]

You want the people to defend what. Why they should be a part of your vision.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. And your company rather than trying to outpay the next highest bidder. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Daryl]

So it's a very applicable principle.

[Jeremy Miner]

But it's also the tone and how you ask that because notice I'm kind of using like kind of a skeptical like why am I even here tone compared to most sales people. They'd be like. So I don't, I don't understand like you got the $80,000 policy. What's caused you to feel like it's not going to be enough? It's just like monotone flat. It doesn't trigger an emotion.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jeremy Miner]

But I'm like, I'm not understanding like you, you've already got the eighty thousand dollar work policy. What's, what's. Cause you feel like that's not going to be enough.

[Chris]

Which is beautiful because. Because yeah. It gets, gets the customer to defend why they're on the phone or talking with you.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

But I think more importantly, as you already brought up, it detaches you from the end result.

[Jeremy Miner]

Right.

[Chris]

Like the customer doesn't feel like yeah. That you're just trying to sell me. Right. And which, which I believe is like one of the biggest mistakes that sales people make is like so, like they are so scared of the no. Right. That they will do anything to get a maybe or even a yes.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Or I want to think it over.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, maybe right over the.

[Chris]

Could be.

[Jeremy Miner]

They love it in solar. You know, when solar salespeople companies would come to us, they'd ask all these, these yes questions to get him to always say yes. I'm like, those are really good questions. However, the prospect knows where those lead and so that's why they're, they're like clamming up at the door or virtual. So you know, let's say if I'm finding out about their bill, a lot of soldiers would be like, oh, your bill is really high. Right. With all the rate hikes. And even if they really they are the most prospects, unless they're late ends of like they're not that bad and they're good because you're like up playing something which they know why and so they downplay it. So we were teaching startups like and this is a little bit in the conversation. So tell me a little bit about your bill. I know, I know a lot of the year, it's pretty low, but what have they been making you pay lately? And so I'm downplaying it, and then I'm saying, what have they been making you, Making you, Making you pay lately? Like, I'm concerned. See that tone, the shift in the tone. Like, tell me about your bill. I know a lot of the year, it's pretty low, but what have they been making you pay lately? See, I'm downplaying it. So they upplay it in their brain.

[Chris]

Right. Right. It's beautiful listening.

[Daryl]

Listening to you. I know one of your top students.

[Jeremy Miner]

Oh, who's that?

[Daryl]

Tony Bianco.

[Jeremy Miner]

Oh, yeah. I actually know Tony was one of our first 500 clients. Literally. I interviewed him on. On a podcast. Geez. A couple of years ago. He's great.

[Daryl]

Well, I can say he sounds so much like you.

[Chris]

Yeah, he. He mimics the. The tonality, for sure.

[Daryl]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Does a really good job.

[Jeremy Miner]

We're huge on tonality. Right. Because like I said, that's how the prospect is interpreting the meaning behind why you're asking them something. So if. If I'm like, if somebody's on the fence and they're just not moving forward, and this could be any industry, I might lean. Be like, hey, can I. Can I ask you something? It's like, concerned tone, very soft. Right? Lower the tone. They're not going to say no, but, yeah, sure. What's going on? What? This is off the record, you know, I'm not gonna go post it on Facebook. What's. What's really holding you back? But it's the tone. It's that concern tone that shows empathy. Because if I'm like, hey, let me ask you a question. Like, what's really holding you back? Oh, I don't know. It's just a big.

[Chris]

It's interesting. I teach something very similar. It's a little bit different. Is. Is asking for permission to slap them. And. And essentially what I teach is I say, hey, is it right if I bro down with you for a second? Like, is there if I shoot you straight?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Because now you're like, real.

[Chris]

Right, Right. And. And all of a sudden, the. Right. Whenever you ask for permission of this type of thing, it's like, I'm just like, true. Is there? And. And it's not even to ask a question like, hey, can I shoot you straight real quick?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And then, like, I don't think that's your real concern.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, right.

[Chris]

Like, and like, everything you took, right. Like, it's. It's one of the biggest things that helped transition my. My sales. Like, whenever my guys and my ladies that. That do sales.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Just remove that and ask for permission, it completely changes.

[Jeremy Miner]

It's so true. Because a lot of sales people, like, hey, let me ask you. And they just bulldoze.

[Chris]

Right?

[Jeremy Miner]

Right. And use the prospect. You know, like, if you're bulldozed, you're kind of. You're resistant. Right. And so are the prospects. But if you ask for much, like, can I. Can I ask you something? Nobody's gonna say, no. No, you cannot. But it's how you ask it in that tone, right? So if they call like, you know, hey, we really liked your presentation, but, you know, now's not a good time, Right. You know, most sales people are like, well, why is it not a good time? And, like, try. You said you needed it, blah, blah, blah, and they just argue, and then it's over. Numbers game. I might be like, yeah, that's not a problem. Can I. Can I ask you something before we get off the phone? So I'm selling the exit. Selling exit. Yeah, sure, go ahead. How can I communicate to you that you. You might be making a mistake without you getting upset with me? Nobody's gonna say you can't. See, now I'm opening them up, but I'm using a concerned tone, a tone that shows empathy. If I used a curious tone, it wouldn't land.

[Chris]

I love it. You know, let's. Let's shift gears. I love. I love this, like, just as far as, like, sales skills and development. But I. I think there's another aspect to sales that some people talk about, some don't. But just, like, the mentality, like, like, what mental frames are you creating, like, internally? Because, you know, it's one thing to have the skill to sell, and it's completely different thing to, like, hold yourself disciplined and not be satisfied and everything else. Let's. Let's talk about a little bit of that.

[Jeremy Miner]

My mindset when I was in sales from. From very first door I knocked on to even now is I don't. I don't view. Selling is something that you. You do to someone. I believe it's something you do for someone. And it's a big mental shift, right? Because when I was on the doors and they're like, yeah, you know, whatever. We get into it and they don't buy or whatever, I'd be like, oh, sorry, I couldn't help you. And I just go into the next Door. Like, I literally didn't even think about it right after that. It's like, Tom Brady throws an interception. He just goes back. He doesn't think about it 10 seconds later. He just goes to the next, you know, the next play when he gets the ball. After that, whatever. So I think you have to have a mindset of, like, you don't necessarily really care if the prospect doesn't buy because it has no impact on you. You're not the one that has a problem.

[Chris]

So, yeah, removing your identity from the situation, they're not attacking you. They're just saying no to the offer or whatever.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. It's just like. But I would always. I'd go back like, okay, but what did I say? What did I not ask? Because they had problems.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Jeremy Miner]

I could solve those. So the missing link was me, right? Not them. I never blamed the prospect. Never. I think the kiss of death for salespeople is blaming the leads, blaming the prospect. I always blame myself. What did I say? What did I not ask? That caused them to react that way. That caused them not to buy.

[Chris]

So what. What kept you going? So, you know, one of. What am I, What I would call elite superpowers is not being satisfied. Right, like, because I think that's probably the kiss of death for most elite salespeople. Right, like, because you go and you start making 800 grand a year. $800,000 a year as a salesperson for any product is considered elite. Right. Like, and that. That is phenomenal. And so to go from 800 grand to 2 million a year, there had to be a mental shift that kept you going. What was that?

[Jeremy Miner]

To me? To me, and I. Because I played high school sports and played college baseball. So to me, like, I was very competitive. Now I'm not a person that's going to talk about that. I like to keep that to myself. It's like an internal driver. Like, I'm not gonna be like, oh, we did this. We do that. Like, I'm just gonna keep it in myself. And I'm like, I don't know who said it. Steve Martin or, like, become so good that they can't ignore you. That's just how I. I grew up as a kid. Because I grew up on a cattle ranch. My parents weren't wealthy. Nothing was ever given to me. You know, playing football and baseball in high school, I wasn't the most gifted, but I was extremely competitive. And I would out learn other people. So my batting stance, I would have better techniques because I'd spend more time on it right. I'd analyze different pitches coming from the player's hand compared to other people would just get up there and hit or not hit. Right. They didn't care. So to me, it was all about commitment to being number one. I could never be number two. And sales was the same way. That's one of the biggest reasons why I left alarms my last year, because I started getting to a point where I was like, this is too easy. It's boring. I don't even care if I'm the number one rep anymore. And that's when, you know, like, I need to go do something else.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Miner]

And that's why I wanted to get into a completely different industry. And everybody told me at Apex and my friends at Pentagon, oh, you'll be back next year. You'll be back. You can't make this type of money outside of door to door. There's no way. And that was like a chip on my shoulders. Like, oh, really? I'm just gonna freaking move back to Missouri and you'll never hear from me again. And they never did. And this made way more money.

[Chris]

I love it. This actually brings up another aspect. One thing I've found with, like, most successful salespeople is that they have painful moments in their lives. Whether it's little words that they hear or whatnot that they draw upon to stick to the course, to keep working, to push. Like, what are some of those painful moments in your life that you use even today to draw on, to keep it rocking?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, because. So I went to school to become.

[Daryl]

A psychologist, which is Which I also want to ask you why.

[Jeremy Miner]

I. I was just fascinated. My first year I was like, physical education major because it's playing sports. But then I started to realize, like, oh, they don't make any money, so I need to do something different. And I was always fascinated with the mind and the way the brain works. Because it's always like, I wanted to get into the pitcher's mind. Like, I wanted to see what was going. What was he thinking? Like, look him in the eyes and, like, see what he was thinking. Because a lot of times I could, like, pick up, like, what type of pitch he was going to do, like, real quick. My. My eyes were just like that. And I played center field. So if you're out. Did you play baseball?

[Chris]

I play baseball.

[Jeremy Miner]

Which position?

[Chris]

Base, usually.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah. Okay, so don't have. Second base is harder. But like, out in center field, you can literally see where the pitch is going outside, up, down. So it's like you get a jump on the ball, like you're already moving towards like when you start seeing the pitch come out of the hand. So in my mind like I was always fascinated with just everything why things happened. So when I got into sales, I'm like, well why did they give me that? I want to think it over. Like I was thinking why do they tell me they need to talk to their spouse? Like I wanted to understand why they thought that, why they didn't buy. And so to me it was fascinating just to learn about the brain and why it made sense. And I had a. One of my uncle's best friend or something was a famous psychologist and he was charging like a thousand dollars an hour per session. It was really, really good, got big results. And so I'm like, I need to make money, you know, I'm not going to go pro. What am I going to do? And so that's why I get into that. But as a psychologist, going back to this, the. Your chip on the shoulder. I believe everybody has a chip on their shoulder. Some people just don't activate it. My chip on my shoulder. And a lot of it comes from as you as a child from the ages of 4 to about 13. That's where your whole worldview usually is shaped by the people you're around. Maybe the church you go to, maybe what you watch on TV. Kids now influenced by influencers on TikTok. That's their worldview, okay. Which is dangerous. So as a kid my stepdad lost his job, he became disabled, he got lupus and went from like a middle class family to like broke and poor. And my mom had to go become a waitress because she didn't initiated back to college and we had, there was five of us boys and so around the age 11 we became very poor. And I remember going to baseball practice still remember this. And my parents couldn't afford the Nike cleats anymore and I had some brand from like Walmart or something. I just remember feeling so stupid, right? And I'm just like I'm never going to feel poor. And so from that day forward like something, I don't know, something shifted where I'm just like. It was like I was, I was afraid of like ever being poor and probably till like my early 30s until I went to like Landmark Forum, I didn't know why I was so motivated to succeed, but it was like a fear of loss. Like I want to be successful so I'm never feel poor again. And so when I, if you're, you guys ever went to Landmark Forum, it's really good. It's like, it just kind of helps you understand. First of all, it helps you understand why you do what you do.

[Chris]

I've. I've heard about it.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, it's really good. And so then I'm like, okay, well, I don't have to. I don't have to want to be successful because I'm afraid of being poor. I need to switch that. And I want to be successful because I want to help more people. I want to be able to have more impact. And so it was a big shift for me. But everybody has a chip. Just most people don't activate it.

[Chris]

Hey, guys, it's Chris.

[Jeremy Miner]

Hey.

[Chris]

A lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor. Shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby. Yeah, I think. I think we all have something. Some. I think that's been one of my also superpowers, has been able to draw on different chips or different scenarios from my life or whatnot. Like, you know, I had a. At an instance my junior year where I should have been the starting quarterback and ended up kind of what I felt like it was being taken from me and I had no control over. I did everything that the coaches said that would, you know, validate there or whatnot. And, you know, I had a decision to make at that point in my life where I had to completely shift, like, who I was to be able to attain the goal that I had. And, like, for a long time, I drew off of that painful moment and then my bankruptcy.

[Jeremy Miner]

And, you know, here's the thing. If that hadn't happened to you, you might. Oh, there's been where you're at 100.

[Chris]

I wouldn't be like, those chains of events and like those. Those dark times of my life are been. Have been the most powerful to me that have kept me motivated on the doors, kept me motivated to keep going in the business, kept me motivated to work on my relationships. You know, it's just. Yeah.

[Jeremy Miner]

And I think it's. It's the way you. You look at trials and tribulations. I. I believe that God gives us trials and tribulations. So, you know, scriptures, we. We. We make our. We turn our weaknesses into our strengths. And I think a lot of people don't do that, though. He gives them, the trials and tribulations, but they just like settle with like, well, it's just the way it is. They're just going to be weak. And I think, you know, guys like you and I, we want to take those weaknesses and like, how do we make them strengths? Like how do we overcome them? Because we know when we overcome, when we overcome that fear of change, everything we've ever wanted is on that other side of that change.

[Chris]

Absolutely.

[Daryl]

I would say that some people suffer to feel dignified and so they hold on to the suffering.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Daryl]

Other people go through the suffering to learn so they can move, move away from.

[Jeremy Miner]

It's all, it's all what you do with it. Are you going to learn from it? And you look at it like, hey, this sucked, but what am I going to do about it? Or you can be like, this sucks and my life is horrible. Yeah, it's just, it's two different paths.

[Chris]

Jeremy, appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Like there's absolutely incredible nuggets in here with psychology and sales practices and just, I mean what you're building is just absolutely phenomenal. Would highly recommend it for anybody that's wanting to really scale up their sales program and.

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And utilize. Where are the best places for people to finalize or to utilize your content? The. And the different programs?

[Jeremy Miner]

Yeah, Just follow me on Instagram, Jeremy Lee Miner. That's my verified account. We do a lot of reels there. You can also go to like barnesandnoble.com get our best selling book, new model of selling, selling unsellable generation, the Big Orange book. And then if they have questions they can just text me. So I'll even give you the number.

[Chris]

Yeah, that'd be great.

[Jeremy Miner]

480-637-2944. Every day for an hour or two I sit around with a bunch of my sales trainers and we answer questions. So they're welcome to.

[Chris]

That's pretty phenomenal questions, I think. I think it's a great business practice and the fact that you're opening yourself up that way is fantastic.

[Jeremy Miner]

I appreciate it. Yeah, they want more advanced training. They always reach out to us.

[Chris]

Awesome guys. Appreciate you jumping on listening to this podcast. Another, another episode of Next Level Pros. As always for if you're looking at joining the premier program or just seeing what it's like, you can get a 47, 10 day trial over at Go Next LevelPros.com in which you're going to be able to have access to Daryl and our team in which you'll be able to ask your questions. Be able to utilize and see what it's like to be a part of our community once again. Head on over to go next levelpros.com it's in the show Notes. Appreciate you guys. Until next time.