#145: why playing it safe might be the most dangerous move //recession prediction // next level pros podcast

Summary

Next Level Pros Podcast Episode #145: Why Playing It Safe Might Be the Most Dangerous Move

Release Date: April 17, 2025

Introduction

In Episode #145 of the Next Level Pros podcast, host Chris Lee delves into the pressing concerns surrounding the looming recession predicted for 2025. Joined by co-host Daryl, Chris navigates the turbulent economic landscape marked by significant stock market drops and political upheaval. This episode offers invaluable insights for entrepreneurs and business owners on how to navigate uncertain times, adapt to change, and emerge stronger.

Recession Predictions and Current Economic Climate

The episode opens with Chris Lee addressing the palpable fear of an impending recession. Highlighting the recent drastic drop in the stock market—“the stock market has tanked over 4,500 points in the last four days” [00:00]—and the initiation of reciprocal tariffs by Donald Trump, Chris sets the stage for the critical discussion ahead. He cites JP Morgan’s alarming forecast, stating, “There is a 60% chance of a complete recession in 2025” [00:00], underscoring the urgency for business owners to act proactively.

Impact on Business Owners: The Dilemma of Staying Afloat

Chris and Daryl explore the myriad of questions troubling business owners: whether to keep operations running, wind down, or double down on efforts. Chris shares real-life concerns from community business owners grappling with “the overall macro economy is hurting them” [01:15]. Daryl echoes these sentiments, noting, “people are really concerned with what to do, and the concern comes from what used to work isn't working anymore” [01:34].

Adaptation and Embracing Change

Central to the discussion is the necessity of change in business practices. Chris references the classic book Who Moved My Cheese? to illustrate the importance of adapting to new circumstances. He explains, “Everything's got to change” [01:50], emphasizing that clinging to outdated strategies can be detrimental. The hosts stress the importance of overcoming fear and being willing to explore new avenues: “What would I do if I had no fear?” [03:17].

Strategies for Recession-Proofing Your Business

Chris and Daryl outline three primary levers to recession-proof a business:

1. Raising Prices: “You can probably charge more and you don't even realize it” [12:05].
2. Increasing Sales: Emphasizing the need for active sales efforts, such as cold calling and door-to-door sales, to boost revenue.
3. Cutting Expenses: Making tough decisions like reducing staff or selling off assets to streamline operations.

Chris elaborates on these strategies, urging business owners to “roll up your sleeves and get back to work, whether it's knocking doors, making cold calls, posting on social media” [14:16].

Overcoming Fear and Mental Barriers

A recurring theme is the psychological aspect of business management during crises. Chris highlights the paralyzing effect of fear and the importance of mental resilience: “We get paralyzed by fear, and so we do dumb things” [04:04]. He encourages entrepreneurs to adopt a fearless mindset to make bold decisions that can steer their businesses toward survival and growth.

Leadership and Employee Transparency

The episode underscores the critical role of transparent communication with employees during tough times. Chris advises, “Creating transparency in your organization” [16:16], suggesting that honesty about the company’s struggles can foster a collective effort to overcome challenges. He shares examples of how transparent leadership can either galvanize a team or lead to the departure of non-committed members.

Daryl adds, “If people aren’t here fighting for the business, they are hurting your business” [16:29], reinforcing the idea that transparent communication can strengthen team bonds and commitment.

Case Studies and Real-World Examples

To illustrate their points, Chris and Daryl discuss several real-world examples:

• George Foreman’s Comeback: Highlighting Foreman’s return to boxing at an older age, they emphasize the power of resilience and taking on “the second act that can be so much bigger than where you're currently at” [09:35].

• Vivint’s Strategy During the 2009-2010 Recession: Chris recounts how Vivint successfully navigated financial woes by engaging employees in equity investments, turning a dire situation into an opportunity for growth: “They went... to get equity from their employees, and those guys made so much money” [20:37].

Building a Strong Company Culture

The hosts stress the importance of maintaining and building company culture even before a recession hits. Daryl notes, “you can't wait until the recession hits to try to bring morale and culture together” [20:37], advocating for ongoing efforts to foster a supportive and resilient organizational culture.

The Power of Underdog Stories and Strategic Partnerships

Chris and Daryl explore the motivational power of underdog narratives, explaining that people naturally root for the underdog: “Everybody loves an underdog” [17:50]. They also discuss the value of forming strategic partnerships during downturns, suggesting that collaboration can create better opportunities for all involved parties.

Conclusion: Thriving Through Adversity

In wrapping up the episode, Chris and Daryl reiterate that surviving a recession requires a proactive and adaptable approach. They encourage business owners to:

• Sound the Rally Cry: Unite the team with a common goal and transparent communication.
• Focus on Revenue-Generating Activities: Prioritize actions that directly impact the bottom line.
• Embrace Change and Overcome Ego: Let go of outdated practices and be willing to take on roles that drive the business forward.

Chris concludes with a powerful message: “He who survives is ultimately going to thrive when the economy comes out on the back end” [22:00]. This episode serves as a crucial guide for entrepreneurs aiming to navigate the stormy waters of economic downturns and emerge stronger on the other side.

Notable Quotes

• Chris Lee [00:00]: “JP Morgan just recently said a 60% chance of a complete recession in 2025.”
• Daryl [00:56]: “Regardless, there is change happening.”
• Chris Lee [03:17]: “What would I do if I had no fear?”
• Daryl [08:27]: “52% of Fortune 500 companies were started in a recession.”
• Chris Lee [16:16]: “Creating transparency in your organization is key.”
• Daryl [17:07]: “We are wired to be freaking fighters. We are wired to survive, not to die, to Go and make it happen.”
• Chris Lee [21:54]: “Focus on revenue-generating activities... that's what's going to move the needle.”

Final Thoughts

Episode #145 of Next Level Pros is a masterclass in crisis management for entrepreneurs. Chris Lee and Daryl provide actionable strategies, backed by real-world examples and psychological insights, to help business owners not just survive but thrive in the face of economic adversity. Their emphasis on transparency, adaptability, and mental resilience offers a roadmap for turning potential threats into opportunities for growth and innovation.

Transcript

[Chris]

Recession is in the air. The stock market has tanked over 4,500 points in the last four days. Donald Trump has initiated reciprocal tariffs across the board. We got business owners that are calling me up and saying, what do we do? Do we keep our business open? Do we wind it down? Do we keep things rocking and rolling? Do we go all in? All these questions are going through people's minds right now. JP Morgan just recently said a 60% chance of a complete recession in 2025. What are you doing right now to make sure that your business is recession proof? All this and more on this episode of Next Level Pros. Yeah, so, I mean, dude, 2025 is crazy. Donald Trump is coming in hot. This guy is freaking throwing just haymakers from the left corner, and you just have no idea what's going on.

[Daryl]

It's been wild. Whether you agree with Trump or not agree with Trump, regardless, there is change happening.

[Chris]

There is for sure. And we could talk a little bit deeper about that, but I think it's more important, like, what is happening right now in business. A lot of people are scared. A lot of people got things going on. I mean, me and you just got off the phone yesterday.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Chris]

With a couple business owners. They. They said, hey, Chris and Daryl. We want. These are guys in our community. They've ran this business for quite a few years, and they are doing everything which they feel is in their power to keep this thing rocking, but the overall macro economy is. Is hurting them.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting aspect because people are really concerned with what to do, and the concern comes from what. What used to work isn't working anymore.

[Chris]

Right.

[Unknown]

And really, that's the. That's the. The point that we're at is like, everything's got to change.

[Chris]

Which actually is a good reference to one of my favorite books, who Moved My Cheese?

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Chris]

Right. Have you read that book before? It's fantastic book. Real small, easy read. Basically, the premise of the book is you got two. You got two mice and then two little people and they're going every single day. And they go through this maze and they find their cheese, right? And they go. And whatever your cheese is, money, relationships, whatever, they're going and they're getting and it's always there. They show up, they do the same thing, and it's there. Then one day it's gone, right? And they're like, whoa, dude, who moved my cheese? Right? And all of a sudden. So what happened was these two little guys that keep showing up and, like, the cheese still Isn't there?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And one guy finally realizes, like, man, I got to change it up. I got to do something different in order to find cheese. And so then he started, like, wandering out and going through the maze and looking for the other cheese, where the other guy literally kept showing up every single day be like, dude, what the freak? Where's my cheese? And so, same thing, right. Going on in business right now is like, guys are doing the same thing that worked back in 2020, 21, 22, and it no longer works in 23, 24, 25, and they're like, who moved my cheese? But one of my favorite things that comes from that book, not only is the little guy that he's out looking in the maze, but the little motto that he preach to himself as he's out looking for new cheese. And the thing that he kept repeating to himself was, what would I do if I had no fear?

[Unknown]

Yeah, right?

[Chris]

Because it's really easy in a time like this to be overtaken with fear, right? Like, dude, I'm looking at my stock portfolio right now, and I'm like, holy crap. Like, there's. There's a little fear go creeping into Chrisley's Dumpski, you know? And I'm like, is. Should I. What should I do? And so a lot of times, like, when things like this are happening, we get. We get paralyzed, and we're paralyzed by fear, and so we do dumb things. We just keep showing up to the same spot versus asking ourselves, okay, if I wasn't fearful, if there was no fear, what is the action that I would take today? And. And I've. I've made some of the best decisions in my career when I've been able to, like, repeat that self over and over to myself.

[Unknown]

I think what we see is there's a. There's always these times in. Or these moments in time where you have to change the way you think. And so, you know, we're talking about recession proofing your business, but truthfully, it's recession proofing your mind.

[Chris]

Right?

[Unknown]

Right. How do you think? Because a lot of times you just get comfortable. It's like, hey, it's working. Why change? This is the time where it's like, okay, things are going to change. And, I mean, I even love what President Trump's doing. Like, everyone's like, this isn't going to work. This is going to crash our market. And he's like. And I think all he's doing is negotiating well.

[Chris]

And. And at the same time, it's like, something's got to change.

[Unknown]

Correct.

[Chris]

Right. Something has to change. We got AI coming down the, the pipeline. Robots are going to be taking over the world, right? They're, they're going to start manufacturing. Like the things that are valuable are going to be land and natural resources and energy. And who owns the manufacturing? Right? So, like, all those things in place, you have two choices. One, kick the can.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Right. And have some other future president take care of it. Or you bite that freaking bullet right now and you start negotiating a new economy.

[Unknown]

I've got a, I've got a quote here says your experiences are, are a reflection of your inner state, thoughts, beliefs and emotions, not your external circumstances.

[Chris]

Hey guys, it's Chris. Hey. A lot of you leave comments asking for help. Do me a real quick favor, shoot me a text at 509-374-7554. That, that's 509-374-7554. Shoot me a text. I'll answer and help you with whatever you need. Don't worry. I got you back. Let's go back to the show, baby. So we actually talked about this in our last workshop, how people, a lot of times we are in our like, own constrained jail cells that aren't even locked, right? We think we can't change. This is my lifestyle. I, I have to keep doing the same work like, like it's real easy when you're running a successful business to think I'm above that work. I'm not willing to get back in the field. I'm not willing to get back into the grind. I'm not willing to cut out my lifestyle or anything. And so then we sit there and we show up to where the, where there's no cheese, wondering like, man, why can't I keep sustaining this lifestyle?

[Unknown]

I think, I don't know what book it was, but this book talked about the concept of boxes that we created. And then we always think, think through those boxes. And the strong where this drew a strong point for me was a marriage, right? You always think like, we have to be married together. And so you limit the way you think based off of we have to be married. And it's like, just remove the box of like, no, we don't have to be married, but what would it be like if we had created the happiest marriage, Right? Same thing with business. Like, you don't have to be a business owner, but what if being a business owner was the greatest thing you could do in your life? What should that look like? And so you remove the box of like, I have to run this business or I have to survive this. It's like, remove those things that constrain your thinking.

[Chris]

And along with that would be like, I have to keep these certain employees or I. I have to keep running out of this certain office or whatnot. Right? You can sell the office, you can fire employees, you can make changes, you can get back out on the doors. You could do the. These things that are the grind. But yeah, like, like I said, we. We create those boxes. They're just so constricting.

[Unknown]

But they're very subtle too, right? They're subtle and they're very. They're very constricting. And what was interesting. So I'll just share, like, with me, my wife. We talked about it, like, okay, like, if we were dating again, what would we do differently? How would we act differently towards each other? And it really did change a lot in our relationship of like, hey, we don't have to fit in this box. Like, let's. Let's treat each other like we would if we were dating each other, whatnot. And I think the same thing with business is, like, you get stuck in this fear loop of like, oh, no, this is gonna be tough. This can be challenging. So now everything you approach, you approach with, like, it's gotta be tough, hard. It's tough times. Things are getting harder and harder versus, like, this is the best opportunity in my lifetime. Everything's changing, and I gotta figure out the niche. And the reality is, if you look at businesses, like, most businesses are ran by older people, right? And it's a great time to be older people, but, like, there's a lot of opportunity for younger people who have, like, a lot of ambition too. So there's just, no matter where you're at in life, like, there's so much opportunity. You just need to change your lens and realize what's going on and take advantage of it.

[Chris]

There's a cool stat you were talking about as far as, like, the Fortune 500 companies. What was that?

[Daryl]

Yeah, 52% of Fortune 500 companies were started in a recession.

[Chris]

That's. That's pretty wild.

[Unknown]

Why do you think that is?

[Daryl]

It's. It's. I love the idea of just an industry shift. I mean, and we experience many versions of recessions every day in our lives and experiencing the real world. And one of the coolest things I've learned from both of you guys is when we studied Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill and how the devil, if it was like an entity, how it would control you. And one of the Best tools it would use is complacency, being stagnant, just kind of on cruise control. And so when you have these recessions, it's all cyclical. And after the recession, there's always a boom right after that. And that boom is caused by the companies directly in this example, or the people that are able to figure it out and see this recession as an opportunity rather than a threat. And we were able to figure that out in the solar industry during the sickness. We might not say on the podcast, but we made a huge pivot from going from door to door sales to remote sales.

[Unknown]

You know, the greatest story of all time that I think about, like, this aspect of like something hard coming and then you have to fix it is, is George Foreman. His story is incredible. He, like quickly rose in boxing, became world champion, went to the Olympics, made a ton of money, and then his manager lost all his money. And then he found himself in the Ford. I think he was 40 something years old, 48, I think, or something. He's really old. Seemed impossible for him to get back into boxing, but he knew, like, that's how he could make his money. Went back into it and like became world champion again. But I just think of that as, like, there's always this, this take two or step or like the second act that can be so much bigger than where you're currently at. And so instead of like, you know, worrying about how it's going to play out, like, just know it's going to play out for your benefit.

[Chris]

Yeah, I think, I think the hardest mental shift for that is like overcoming the ego of like, I am too good for this because. Right. George foreman at age 48, dude, I've already done it. I've, like, why would I get back in the ring and, and box? And, you know, the, the same thing from my life has happened a couple different times. So, like, after my first business failed, I started up a couple other businesses and, and we were. Daryl and I were running just a couple little small businesses and ultimately the opportunity was presented for me to go and work for somebody else. Dude, that was one of the hardest ego. Like, it seems so little now, but in the moment, it was so hard for me to mentally get over this barrier that, like, I work for myself. There's no way I'm going to go work for somebody else. There's no way I'm going to go start knocking doors again for somebody else. Until, like, when I made that shift and was finally able to just overcome the ego, like things magic happened for me. Over the next four and a half years, working for other people, winning Range Rovers, making four to five hundred thousand dollars a year, learning strategy that we were able to go and parlay up into Soul Gen. Like, that was one huge moment for me, just overcoming that. The other one was what you talked about in 2020, right? Like, we go from the shift, right? We're selling 30 to 40 accounts a week going into the sickness and March 2020 hits. And literally the week that they shut everything down, they canceled the national championship and everything else for. For basketball, we sold one account that week. I don't know if you guys remember that.

[Daryl]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris]

And that was scary, right? Like, it was just like, oh. And so again, I had to go to myself, like, what am I? What do I think I'm above? And what am I willing to do? And so, right again, got got back. I was on the phones, I was making calls, I was doing sales just to prove to other guys that, like, hey, look, I'm not above this. And I think we all have to go through moments like that in our lives. And maybe right now, that's it for your business, right? Like, you're going through some struggle. You've been above doing the sales, you've been above doing the work, you've been managing. You've been doing what all these different things. Like, ask yourself, am I truly above this? Or am I willing to roll up my sleeves, get back to work, and do the hard things that my ego is keeping me from doing in order to keep this thing rolling? Because ultimately, there's a few levers in business that. That you can pull. It's not there. There's not a lot of levers. One, you can raise your price. Two, you can sell more product. And three, you can cut out expense. And so the first two, those are really just mental levers, right? Like changing your price. You can probably charge more and you don't even realize it. And so you just got to go out and get over your own ego of, like, this is going to be too expensive. The other thing is driving more sales. Chances are, as a business owner, you can influence more sales if you roll up your sleeves and you get to work, whether it's knocking doors, making cold calls, posting on social media, doing different things to be known and seen that your product exists and doing efforts that you just haven't done in a long time, right? Like, those are the two, and then the third is cutting out expenses. Like, sometimes you got to let people go. Sometimes you got to, like, who forget what everybody else Thinks about you, like giving up the car or giving up the whatever else, and you just got to cut the expenses out. And like, all three of those are really just very ego driven. Hey, guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like, and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in.

[Unknown]

The show, I think would be really good. Is. Is. Let's, let's kind of recap our, Our phone call for. From yesterday for people who are like in a situation or get in a situation where it's like, man, we've got three months of cash flow. We got six months of cash flow. You just mentioned a few things you could change, but I think there were some really important things we talked about on that call that I think could really benefit people. One of them is just having the honest conversation, the hard thing about hard things. And I think what that looks like for you, and we've had that before where it's like you sit down with your people and you say, hey, here's our situation. Here's what we got to accomplish, otherwise we're out of business.

[Chris]

Yeah. So really, that's the, what I like to call the battle cry, right? Like the, the battle cry, like people want to be a part of something. They want to be fighting against a common enemy, whether, whether that's survival or a competitor or whatever else. Right? Like, everybody wants to be on the team fighting. And to your point, it's. The word is transparency. Creating transparency in your organization, right? If your company, if your employees don't know that you are struggling and you can't barely bills, then you are missing out on an incredible opportunity to sound a battle cry and get people behind. Because ultimately, even if you think your people don't know you're struggling, they know. They know. They've. They've seen. If they've seen good times and now it's bad times, chances are it's not going to be some huge surprise when you come to them and be like, yo, we are losing money every single month. And that's, that's what it was with this guy, right? We were, we were talking to him. We're like, hey, what's your longest tenured sales guy? He's like seven years. I'm like, you think that guy doesn't know that you're struggling right now? Like, like, he saw the good days when the incentives were flowing and like, I mean, cash was literally just falling off the Pickup trucks. You know, he saw those times and now you're like pinching pennies and not even leading sales meetings and everything else. You think he doesn't know?

[Unknown]

I think, I think what this gives you, you have two, two outcomes. You have buy in and you have people that leave. And I think the people that leave you need gone. You need those people out of your business because they're hurting your business if they're not there fighting for the business.

[Chris]

Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a win win scenario. You get rid of the, the non players or you get that freaking buy in because. Because chances are if guys don't know that you, for this particular example, they're doing 25 to 30 accounts a week and they needed 35 to 38 accounts to break even. If guys don't know that they are going to give up early, right? Hey, I've already done enough for me. But if they know that the team needs more, the team needs that extra effort, that extra hour a day, that extra two hours a day, the Saturday, they are going to give it because they know that it is needed.

[Daryl]

As an employee that went through this from you guys being the owners and I was an employee, like what I always commended and spoke about to other people that worked at other places, like friends and family was they were always looking at, oh my gosh, what are you guys gonna do? And I was like, we're gonna figure it out. And I thought it was so cool to experience it from an employee perspective of like the way I perceived it was if we can get through this, when we get through this, this is gonna provide an opportunity for myself to be like, hey, I was a part of that champion team that was able to get through through and these were the other people that were able to get through with me and that's going to leverage myself as a better opportunity as employee later on down the road.

[Chris]

Which the psychology is like, everybody loves an underdog for sure. I mean, when you're looking at a championship game, nine times out of 10 you're going to cheer for the underdog. So if you can help people realize that they're a part of that underdog story and there is a way to get out dude buy in. Where most of the time our fears like, oh, if they know that we're an underdog, they're going to want to leave, they're not going to want to fight, they're not going to like, no, dude, we're, we are wired to be freaking fighters. We are wired to survive, not to die, to Go and make it happen. So like freaking get that.

[Daryl]

Yeah. We had so many company wide meetings that we were bring. You guys were bringing this stuff up and you guys were like, look, we don't even know what we're going to fully do in the next month or two months, but we need you guys. Like, if you guys aren't here, we're going. We need to figure this out. I thought that was like really cool to experience. And then in hindsight, you know, you fast forward one or two years down the road, you start remembering those times and it becomes like what you were talking about. Everybody loves a common enemy. When you go through a tough experience like that, it creates a bond, brotherhood, no other. And like employees that went through that, you're tied to each other.

[Unknown]

I recently learned this. When you experience the same emotion, strong emotion with someone, like, it bonds you, whether that's a good or a bad emotion. When you experience the same emotion together in the same situation, it bonds you. So fear anything?

[Chris]

Yeah. Like all the different.

[Unknown]

As long as it's the same. Right. If you go to a haunted house and one person thinks it's funny and the other person thinks it's scared, no bonding. But if you guys both go and you're both scared or both excited, that makes complete sense. It bonds. Yeah. But the other thing we talked about, another strategy was finding strategic partners. If things get really, really tough, it is not just you, there's a lot of people out there that are also struggling. And if you can figure out strategically how do I piece things together to create a better opportunity for all of us, like, dude, everybody wants to be a part of an opportunity.

[Chris]

Yeah. One of the things that we suggested is like, hey, look, is there potentially a sales dealer out there that is tired of the sales dealer grind, really doesn't have any equity built up in their business that you could offer a piece of equity of your business to these guys and just them alone will get you over that break even hump, get you to profitability. Like, wouldn't it be worth it, wouldn't it be worth it to offer these guys a 10% stake in a business that is essentially worthless right now? You know, and so it's like, yeah, getting creative. There's so many ways that you can get creative from a marketing standpoint, strategic partner standpoint, a grind standpoint. That was the other thing that we talked about is like, dude, get back on the doors. Like, let these guys see you going out and making sales. Stop worrying, stop strategizing and start doing more revenue generating. Activities.

[Daryl]

And Vivint had one of the greatest stories to get through that. You know, being able to come to their own employees and ask for money.

[Chris]

It's one of my favorites. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite stories ever. During the 09.10 recession, Vivint had to go and get money from Wall street to be able to fund their accounts coming up. And Wall street said, no, we don't have no, the, the faucet's off, we have no more money. And so the only way that they were going to survive was they had to go. So Todd goes to his, to his employees and says, yo, we're not getting the money. He was very transparent. We're not getting money. The only way we're going to survive is if we go and find investors. We want to open the investor investment to you guys. We owe you this big back end check coming up in January. How many guys would be interested in putting that money towards equity in the business Due to something like 90% of back end checks were plowed into equity. And all these guys went. Just this classic underdog story. Yeah, dude, we're going to fight with you to the end, Todd. And dude, those guys made so much money on that equity getting through that recession.

[Daryl]

What I want to highlight with that too is you can't wait until the recession hits to try to bring morale and culture together.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Daryl]

Like that was fost of years of good culture.

[Chris]

Absolutely, absolutely. So at the end of the day, guys, we understand during times like this it's hard to maintain good morale, good culture. The way you do it, you got to sound the rally cry, really dig into the fact that people want to be a part of a good underdog story. They've, they believed in you good times, they're going to believe in you in bad times as well. If you're willing to be transparent and really get that buy in and then ultimately focus on revenue generating activities. Like this is, that's the thing that's going to move the needle, stop the strategy, stop all these different things, refocus, put in longer hours. One of the things that we talked with these guys about is like, okay, look, instead of 7, 6, 78 hour days, you need to do now 12 hour days, do 8 hours towards revenue generating activities and then in 3 to 4 hours to like maintain and make sure that everything's being managed correctly. Like that's the level of commitment that you have to have when it gets rough and tough. And ultimately it's what's going to push you through, make you one of these Fortune 500 companies that was able to survive. Because ultimately, he who survives is ultimately going to thrive when the economy comes out on the back end. Until next time, let's go.