Podcast Summary: Next Level Pros – Episode #148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree

Release Date: May 23, 2025

Introduction

In Episode #148 of Next Level Pros, host Chris Lee delves into the evolving landscape of the trades industry, exploring whether a career in the trades can outpace traditional degree paths. Joining him are industry leaders Dustin Van Ormon and Ishmael Valdez, both of whom have successfully navigated the complexities of scaling trades businesses with the aid of private equity. The conversation centers around leveraging private equity, overcoming industry challenges, embracing technological advancements, and the pivotal role of sales and leadership in driving business growth.

Guests’ Background and Business Growth

Ishmael Valdez brings over 15 years of experience in the trades, having successfully exited a plumbing and HVAC company that grew to $108 million in revenue within just four months and achieved a remarkable $225 million in four and a half years. His journey highlights rapid scaling and strategic exits in the trades sector.

Dustin Van Ormon shares his roots as an HVAC technician from Utah, growing his business from a modest $2.5 million in revenue in 2011 to leading the NER Group with over $500 million in revenue across 30 locations in 10 states. Dustin emphasizes the importance of building a team of leaders and fostering a culture that supports sustainable growth.

Notable Quote:

Ishmael Valdez [02:01]: "I started educating myself because I was ignorant to, you know, I didn't even know what the term private equity was at the time."

The Role of Private Equity in Trades

The discussion underscores the increasing interest of private equity (PE) in the trades industry, driven by the sector's resilience and essential nature. Both guests explain how PE firms recognize the stable demand and growth potential in trades, propelling businesses to new heights.

Notable Quote:

Dustin Van Ormon [04:56]: "The trades are amazing. There’s so much potential. They saw the value in our industry."

Challenges in Scaling Trades Businesses

Scaling a trades business from millions to hundreds of millions in revenue presents unique challenges. Key hurdles include building robust sales processes, developing effective leadership, and managing operational complexities, especially in highly regulated markets like California.

Notable Quote:

Ishmael Valdez [15:01]: "I’d hire a sales person, hire a senior technician, hire a sales representative. Sales is a gift."

Impact of AI on the Trades Industry

Chris Lee and guests explore the potential impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on the trades. Unlike repetitive manufacturing tasks, trades require human adaptability and problem-solving, making them less susceptible to automation. AI is seen as a tool to enhance efficiency, reduce in-house support costs, and drive higher valuation multiples.

Notable Quote:

Ishmael Valdez [10:22]: "AI is going to benefit the trades and take us to the next step to giving us the bigger multiples and valuing us at a higher rate."

Recruitment and Labor Shortage in Trades

The labor shortage in the trades is a pressing issue, exacerbated by high barriers to entry and a cultural tilt towards college education. Both guests emphasize the need to attract young talent by showcasing the financial and career opportunities within the trades. Initiatives to engage high school students and shift societal perceptions are highlighted as critical strategies.

Notable Quote:

Dustin Van Ormon [17:24]: "People want to experience a career of their choice. In the trades, you can have a choice of what you do with your life direction."

Best Practices for Scaling

Effective scaling relies on identifying and harnessing the right skills within the team. Ishmael Valdez discusses the importance of recognizing one's strengths and delegating responsibilities accordingly. Building scalable processes, investing in leadership development, and maintaining a sales-driven culture are pivotal for sustained growth.

Notable Quote:

Ishmael Valdez [23:38]: "The sales process is one of the most unique and most pure form of growing the Business."

Importance of Sales and Leadership

A recurring theme is the indispensable role of sales in driving business growth. The guests argue that trades businesses often prioritize technical expertise over sales acumen, leading to stagnation. By fostering a sales-oriented culture and hiring skilled salespeople, businesses can overcome revenue plateaus and achieve exponential growth.

Notable Quote:

Ishmael Valdez [24:03]: "Most of these technicians that you know have become CEOs because we built a culture based on sales."

Coaching and Training

Investing in coaching and training is essential for developing leadership within trades businesses. The conversation highlights how structured mentorship, accountability, and continuous education can transform high-performing individuals into effective leaders, thereby enhancing overall business performance.

Notable Quote:

Dustin Van Ormon [35:44]: "Coaching and training and opportunity available in programs like what you guys have created... leaders need to have direction."

Identifying and Avoiding Scammers in the Industry

With the rise of educational and coaching programs, discernment is crucial to avoid scams. Chris Lee advises contractors to seek coaches who have a proven track record and are actively involved in their programs. Authentic coaches will have real-world experience and a commitment to continuous learning and improvement.

Notable Quote:

Chris Lee [38:17]: "Be extremely afraid of a guy that wants to be your coach that doesn't pay to be coached."

Personal Motivations of Guests

The personal drives behind successful entrepreneurs are explored, revealing that beyond financial success, a desire to create lasting impact, support family, and solve industry problems fuel their daily endeavors.

Notable Quotes:

Chris Lee [49:10]: "Our mission at Next Level is designing lives that impact the world."

Dustin Van Ormon [54:12]: "People counting on us. I have an accountability to my family."

Conclusion

Episode #148 of Next Level Pros offers invaluable insights into the trades industry's potential to surpass traditional degree paths in terms of success and growth. Through the experiences of Ishmael Valdez and Dustin Van Ormon, listeners learn the significance of embracing private equity, fostering a sales-driven culture, investing in leadership, and addressing the labor shortage with innovative recruitment strategies. The conversation underscores that with the right mindset, processes, and support systems, the trades hold immense promise for those seeking to elevate their professional and financial standing.

Connect with the Guests

• Ishmael Valdez: Join his free social media group, Nuvent Networks Group, where he mentors over 7,000 contractors. Follow him on Facebook and Instagram as Ishmael Valdez, CEO.
• Dustin Van Ormon: Reach out via anyhourgroup.com or call 801-787-3546. Visit Any Hour Services in Utah for regular tours and networking opportunities.

Stay tuned to Next Level Pros for more inspiring stories and actionable insights from top entrepreneurs around the world.