A (4:05)

A lot of things. Dude, that's, that's sweet. I, I love, I love your, you know what you bringing up. Like, hey, I go into a restaurant, I start thinking about things which by the way, dude, there are some places that have to be cover ups for the mafia. Because like, for example, Arby's, dude, Arby's in my, like there is never a car there. And I go there and I'll eat a turkey sandwich because it's like one of the only quick things that I can get that are, you know, somewhat good. Just like, dude, there's no way, there's no way these guys aren't a cover up for, for Drugs for the Mafia. Because this has got to be a laundering scheme.

B (4:48)

I definitely have seen some things in like shopping centers. This does not make sense. But yeah, but I mean, that's what I've been up to primarily. We've been massively investing in media overall because, you know, the overarching idea like when I, when I decided to step down from Gym launch was that gym launch, in my opinion was going to eventually become an investment company. So, you know, at a certain, you know, there's 50,000 micro gym owners in the US and so we had already talked to 20,000 when I stepped down. So, like, you know, and I followed a lot of the advice that, you know, actually I'll rewind for a second because I'll tell you a story that you may. You may not know this. So when I went to, we had that little meetup, it was like. You mean like six other people at your. Your cabin, right? And so some of my audience listened to this. Like when I talked about that meetup that was actually with Chris. And together it was like the eight of us were doing half a billion a year in revenue, which I thought was pretty cool. You know what I mean? If you just added up all the business might even been higher than that, but it was at least half a billion a year in revenue. And it was interesting from an experience for me because that, that meeting was actually one of the reasons I decided to sell Jim Watch. And the big takeaway for me, like, even though we talked about lots of stuff, yeah, we talked about lots of, you know, you know, strategies, tactics, hiring, people scaling, blah, blah, blah, that kind of jazz. But the biggest takeaway I had was I looked at everybody in the room who was doing more revenue than I was. And you know, I was like, okay, is it, is, is it there a skill set that I'm lacking? Like, what, what am I missing? Right? And the biggest thing that I saw as my takeaway was I was just in a pond and everyone else was going after an ocean. And so I just needed to. It's like, I mean, VC guys know this because they look at, you know, tech companies are gonna invest in, and the first question they ask is, what's tam? You know, what's total addressable market? And I never asked that question because when I come into the business game, everybody was like, niche, niche, niche, niche, niche. And I do think that's 100% the right advice when you're starting out. But at some point you have to expand. And so I had two directions I could have expanded in. So one is like, I continue to expand more broadly in fitness. So I go after health clubs, which is exactly what Gym launch is doing now, is they're going after big, you know, bigger, you know, big chain gyms, what I call like facility leasing gyms. It's like lots of equipment, lots of treadmills, that kind of thing. We were all service based facilities. Or we could go down market, go after like personal trainers and fitness enthusiasts. And so like, those are like kind of the directions there. But at that point, I've Been in fitness for a decade, and I think if I hadn't sold then I could have continued to go down that path. But I didn't want to be known as the fitness guy. I already had felt kind of tired of being known as the gym guy. And you can make an argument that that would have been a better move because I've known the space, and you just get deeper and deeper knowledge, and that becomes your competitive advantage. But In September of 19, I started making general business content, and I stopped making content about. About gyms. And so. And it was actually almost at that time that things started growing for me. And so, like, my podcast, I went from talking about only gyms to talk about business. And then it started growing, even though I'd been doing it for like two or three years at that point. And then. And then I think a year later after that, I started making my first YouTube videos. And so those were kind of like the first things that I started doing from a general business perspective, because the general business market's a lot bigger than the gym market. And I wanted something that could. That would never stop compounding. That was like, one of the big lessons that I had from Jim launched. And I've talked to a lot of business owners that have a. Not, like, the perfect vehicle when they start their first business because they didn't think about it. Like, I didn't think about it. I was just trying to not be broke, but, like, playing. Playing it out and thinking, like, what's the. Like, you have to have one or multiple compounding mechanisms within the business in order for it to be able to reach, like, you know, I mean, reach without force. Right? Like, could I. Could I, you know, get to a thousand cold callers? Like, sure, I could. But, like, could I take that same effort and allocate it somewhere else and get a higher return? And so that's. That's ultimately why we started doing all the content stuff. I saw that media has a huge compounding effect, like your audience itself compounds. So it's like 10% more people find about me every month. And, like, when you have 10 people, you go to 11, but when you have 10 million, you go to 11 million. And it just takes time. And so that was kind of the. Right. That was one of the big reasons.

A (9:08)

Super, super cool. So, dude, for. For my audience that may not know your whole story. Let's. Let's rewind. I know, I know there was like, a big factor. Like, you went to the Ivy League school. You were planning on following in, in the footsteps of your father as far as being a professional.

B (9:25)

Right.

A (9:26)

I know your dad was in the medical field, but you were going to go and I think you worked for like a government contractor or whatnot. And like, walk, walk us through kind of some of those defining moments that got you to launching a gym and then ultimately becoming a. A business. Yeah, go ahead.

B (9:47)

Yeah, so I, I was gonna say.

A (9:49)

Guru, but I'm like, you know, oh, you're good. Don't love that word.

B (9:54)

But yeah, so I, you know, I, I graduated three years from Vanderbilt because I just did extra credits and did summer work and whatnot so I could get ahead. And then, and then I got a consulting job at a boutique strategy firm that did defense contracting. So they did space, cyber and intelligence, or at least those are the projects that I worked on. It looked really good on paper. It sounded great at COXO parties, but I really did not enjoy the work. And, you know, being where I'm at now, I would look back and probably just tell myself, like, maybe you just need to switch companies. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not that I didn't necessarily enjoy the work. It could have just been like the three people I saw all the time or maybe like, you know, there's a lot of other variables, but I extrapolated that to like, I don't want this to be my life, which was true. And I saw what the partner of the firm was, what their life looked like, and I was like, if that's what 20 years from now looks like or 30 years from now looks like, I don't want that life. And so I was pretty depressed at that point. It's just sad that life wasn't working out the way I thought it was going to, even though I'd done all the things that I thought I was supposed to do. And so I started thinking, what do I actually like? And I knew I wanted to start a business. And so I started applying to business schools. And the first question on the Harvard, or it was either Booth or whatever one of the schools was, how will a, you know, booth MBA help your long and short term goals? And it's like a standard question. It's not like, I mean, it's not a complicated question, but I ended up staring at it for like three days. Yeah. And staring at it for three days and being like, I don't know if this is gonna help my short and long term goals. Where I was at right then. Right. I was two years out. I was two years outta college. You know what I mean? So I was 23. Not even. I think I was 22 when I was thinking about applying. Cause I just wanted to change. But I thought about it for a few days, and I was like, you know what? I think Rather than foregoing two years of income and incurring $120,000 in debt to do this, I could take the 50 grand I have saved up and start a business and learn that amount. And median income coming out of business school at the time was 120 grand. And so I was like, I just got to get to ten grand a month from my own savings with a business to then kind of equate the two. And so, you know, I was like, if I have no kids, I have no wife. Like, if I'm afraid to take a risk now, like, I'll never be able to take a risk later. And transparently, I still think the hardest decision I've ever made was quitting my job today. Like, for sure, it was still the hardest decision.

A (12:21)

How old were you at that time?

B (12:23)

I was 22 when I quit, so I was 22 years old. Didn't want to disappoint my dad.

A (12:31)

You got through school pretty quick. I mean, so you're 22. You're considering going to getting your MBA or whatnot. And that's. That's. When you. And you said that that's the hardest decision. Like, talk us through that. Like, why was it the hardest decision?

B (12:46)

Well, for me, it was just. I didn't want to disappoint my dad. You know, it was interesting because, like, the happiest time my father's life was the saddest in mind. You know, I mean, like, I had done everything that he had told me to do up to that point, and I was living 100% the life that he wanted me to live rather than the life that I wanted to live. And so, I mean, and for anybody who has, like, a parent or an uncle or a brother or whatever it is that you're trying to live up to, I mean, it was tough because, like, you know, I always wanted the approval of my dad. And it was, like, the closest time that I've ever had to, like, having it. And he was pumped. You know, we'd go out to get lunch, like, two days or three days a week. So I moved close enough to home that. That we could do that. And so he was like. He got to, you know, brag about me to his friends, and. And that was, like, that was it for him, you know? And every time I talk about opening a Business. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like do this and then go to business school. And then, you know, whatever. And I was like, because he's always for formal education. So he was like, yeah, business school, that makes sense. Like, go do that. But every time I bring it up, you'd keep like, you know, like, yeah, like, come over, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about our lunch. And so it's just like months and months and months of like kind of always having that kind of pulled away. And then when I decided to quit, it took me six months from when I thought I wanted to quit to when I actually quit. And it was like six months of like, really tough every day, like, pacing, like, ridiculous. I mean, like, I lived alone. Just like calling everybody I knew. Probably to the point where everybody I knew, like, was sick of hearing me, like, talk about this debate over and over again. And finally just.

A (14:18)

I just figured already.

B (14:20)

Yeah, exactly. And finally I just figured there's two. There's. There's lots of little micro moments. But one of them was like, I was reading all these self help books at that time. So I was reading like, you know, a few books a week because I was like, trying to, like, you know, invest in myself. And I realized after, like my 20th self help book that, like, my life was the same. And some of the books said things that contradicted one another. You know what I mean? Some of them were like, manifest everything. Other ones are like, don't manifest anything. And I was like, and so sorry if I cuss you can. And so finally it was actually like, downside. Yeah, just like downside decision making. Which is like, what, what ended up driving it for me. Just saying like, okay, well, worst case scenario is I lose all the money that I've saved up and my business fails. And then I can go to business school with, like a real world experience and I can write essays about it or whatever. So that was like, it sounds so simple now, but, like, that is being my worst case. Ended up being the thing that I decided to, like, lean a lot on. And so I still knew my dad wasn't gonna be game for it. So I basically left without telling anyone. And I called my dad when I was halfway across the country. Cause I drove to California and I called him up and I was like, hey, you know, just wanna let, you know I wanna start that business. And he was like, all right, we'll come over, we can talk about it. And I'd already had, you know, I'd already knew that he would Just talk me off the ledge again. And so I was like, no, I can't. He was like, why? I was like, I'm in Ohio right now. I'm just like. And then, and then obviously at that point he, you know, was very upset. And I said, why are you so extreme? You always, you know, like you're never balanced. Like you need to be more balanced, blah, blah, blah. And then. And the thing is, a lot of people will hear that story and be like, oh, well, it's cool. Your dad's probably happy with you now. But like, we weren't cool for a while. Like a long while. Not like months, but like years. You know, we stayed in touch. Like, I'm his son, I was alive. You know, I shoot the occasional text, like two, three minute call, like once a month or something. But yeah, so I, I looked at three different businesses. I thought about starting a frozen yogurt stand, a test prep, because I was good at taking standardized tests. And I mean, because I. Because I'd gone From like a 6:30, I think on the GMAT when I took it the first time to 7:30 or 740, which was like 20 points higher than Harvard's mint score at the time to get it, actually. So you just did yours. So, like. Yeah. So you're probably familiar with this. I got a 730, 740 on it. And all I did to prep for it was I bought every GMAT book at Barnes and Noble in like the test prep section. They're all like these phone book thick things. Because I found this research study that said there's this line on a chart that said the more problems you do, the better your score is. Like, it was just straight up, just like problems score. And so I was like, great, I can like input out output equations for like success. Like, I can do that. And So I did four hours a day of problems for 16 weeks. And that's what got my, that's what got my score above Harvard's mid score. And so I was like, okay, I could, I could teach people how to do that. And so anyways, I couldn't afford the yogurt thing. Cause when I called up like franchises and stuff, they were like, it's 250 grand. I was like, I don't have that kind of money. And so then it was just test prep and gyms because I was into fitness already. So I was like, I kind of have a little bit advantage there. And then I was going to do a test prep thing and then I prepped all this stuff, and I gave it to somebody who was going to be my partner, and then they ended up taking it and just doing it on their own. And so I kind of had, like, a bad taste in my mouth from that. So I was like, I guess I'm going to do fitness. And I had this lady at the gym that I was working out at ask me to meet her for lunch. Like a mom. Like a much older lady. And I was like, it wasn't weird. So anyways, I met her for lunch because she wanted to ask me about nutrition. So I was like, sure. And so I talked to her for an hour about, like, what she could do with her food or whatever. And then she handed me a check for a hundred bucks. And I didn't. Like, I didn't. You know, it wasn't. I wasn't in business, but the idea that this lady just gave me a check for $100 for, like, sitting down with her, I was like, whoa. Like, I could make money doing this. And so there was a lot of, like, little things that happened. And then when I finally decided to leave was because I reached out to 40 different gym owners who looked like they were doing okay, and I just said, like, can I just work for you for free? And no one got back to me except for one guy, and he said, yeah, you can work for me for free. And so I drove across the country to his gym, and I, like, showed up at the front door, and he was like. I was like, hey, I'm here. And he was like, I'm doing right now. What's up, man? Yeah, like, she was like. He was like, well, where are you staying? I was like, I don't know yet. He's like, you mean you literally, like, drove directly to my gym? I was like, yeah. Like, I was. I didn't know. You know what I mean? And so he was like. He's like, you can stay at my place tonight, but, like, you need to find someplace. I was like, ah, I'll figure it out. And so the next morning, he, like, went, like, stand up, stood on a box and was like, hey, does anybody have an extra bedroom for this kid? And he's, like, pointing at me, like, in the thick of, like, a gym. And this dude came up to me, and I, like, worked out with that gym owner. He had, like, a crew of three or four guys that he trained with in the morning at, like, 4am and so one of the guys I'd worked out with was like, you can stay one of my spare bedrooms. And so, you know, I paid a few hundred bucks a month in rent for one of these, this guy's bedroom. He wanted to get in shape. He was like, hey, just make sure I don't eat like crap. And I was like, okay, I can do that. And that was how I got my, you know, got my foot into fitness. And as a, as a, as a fun side note for the audience, like, like I was, I was working a white collar job, you know, on pace to be able to make, you know, 100 grand plus, and then, you know, obviously two years after business school, you know, scale up from there and I went all the way back to basically being a trainer, which doesn't even require a college education or the experience I had for, I think it was like, I don't know, 12 bucks an hour or something like that. I don't even know what I was getting paid. And so, like, a lot of times I think you have to take some steps back if you want to, if you want to start something new.

A (20:20)

I, dude, I think, I think that's such a key principle that a lot of people don't quite understand is like, the value of experience in education, in, in doing what you want to go and build is worth so much more than the short term dollars that you're.

B (20:34)

Going to get paid.

A (20:35)

And so the, like, I, I love the idea of like going and working for somebody for free, especially if that somebody is like an incredible mentor that can really catapult your career, right? And, and there's not a, there's not a successful entrepreneur in the world that would turn down a hungry guy or girl that's like, hey, let me come learn and work for you for free and just, just mentor and I'll do whatever you say, right? Like, I mean, everybody's going to take.

B (21:03)

A piece of that. And you know, actually I want to give some caveats to this. I think you'll, you'll agree with me because I've, I've given this advice a lot and I had my training partner, I was talking about a kid who came up to me and was like, hey, can I work for you for free? And probably, you know, with your, your station and status that you're getting right now, you'll, you'll, you probably already do. But like, I have, you know, I probably get 50 a day of people saying like, can I work for free for you or do something for free for you. And so two, two or three big caveats around this. Number one is that I recommend that if you're going to Try and do this approach. You want to go to somebody who's one or two steps ahead of you. Like, you're not like Elon Musk. If you're like, hey, Elon, can I get your coffee for you? Like, Elon doesn't need you to get his coffee. Like, it's not like he's going to sit down with you every morning, give you a one hour coaching call because you gave him his coffee. Like, people don't think about this, right? And there's this issue that I see amongst poor people that think that their time is worth something, and it's not. There's no shortage of low skilled labor, right? And so they have this idea that, like, if I'm willing to do $30,000 a year of work for you, you now owe me all of your time because I'm giving you my time. So my minutes are the same as your minutes, but they're clearly not because you're pursuing me and I'm not pursuing you, right? And so caveat number one is like, you want to go to somebody who supply demand of free labor is in your favor. So if somebody is one or two steps ahead of you, they probably don't have a lot of people saying they want to work for free, right? Now, that person might not have all the skills that Elon Musk has, but they got more skills than you, right? And so it's like, okay, so number one is go after people who are just a couple steps ahead. Number two is you want to make them an offer that's so good that they feel stupid saying no. Because, like, I don't want people to get this twisted. Like, you're getting the better end of the deal, right? Like, if someone starts working with Chris and just shadows you every day, right? Or shadows me every day. Like, let's not pretend here. Like, my life is not better off because you're in it now. Your life is gonna be significantly better because I'm in it. I'm just like, I don't want to sugarcoat it. Like, let's be real for a second, right? And so in order to do that, like, you have to provide value. And so one of the things that I see and I get this in my DMs all the time, which is like, hey, I'd like to do this in exchange for working, you know, alongside you. And I'm like, no. First off, like, the whole principle of giving first isn't an offer to give first. It is giving first period, without expectation of something back. So it's like, what does Chris need? Well, Chris probably wants somebody to edit and cut his podcast, or take his podcast clips and redistribute them. You don't offer to do that. You just do it and then send it to him, and then you keep doing it and keep sending it to him. And I'll bet you that if you do that for 10, 50, 100 days straight, Chris will be like, well, damn, this kid is like, really, really hungry. Like, he's willing to continue. He took the initiative, he figured out what I wanted, et cetera. Cause the alternative of that, right, is that you come up and you say, hey, Chris, I want to work for you for free. And he says, what's the next thing he's going to say? He's gonna be like, well, what can you do, right? And now what are you asking Chris to do? You're asking Chris to work for you because we now have to figure out what you are good at and we have to think all this, like, I'm doing all this work for you, right? Instead, it's like you have to show the initiative. You have to have some skill. You have to demonstrate that you have the skill and that you can identify a need for another person. Like, it's basic level, but that that basic level is a hurdle that most people won't jump over. So I'm just like, I'm a little lit on this because I just happened.

A (24:30)

Yes, that is, that is the best explanation. Oh, dude, I. I freaking love that. That is probably the best explanation I've ever, ever been given with like the two caveats. Like, because, yes, I've always believed the principle of like, hey, add value and, and whatever, but man, those freaking two caveats are 100% true. Because, yeah, if I have somebody come and be like, to your exact point, I have guys in my DMs or whatnot all the time. But the people that actually create the value and give it to me, you cannot deny that right. You just can't deny it. So it's absolutely phenomenal.

B (25:07)

That's, that's a great, great concept. And one of the costs that they don't quantify, your time is worth gone. Yeah, yeah, I was like, one of the costs they don't qualify is how much your time is worth, right? So let's say right now, market rate, like any, you know, any CEO who wants a big exit says, hey, Chris, I'll pay 25,000 an hour to like have your time, right? And so for you, it's like an hour of my time. Market rate is 25, 35 grand, whatever it is, right? And if the work that this person is doing for a whole year is $35,000 worth of work, if you ask me, or you need an hour a week of my time, right. I have to think about the opportunity cost of what my time is worth. And so, like, you're actually, like, you have to make sure that the value you're providing is in excess of. Of the time it's costing me. And the higher up the person is, the less of their time you're going to be able to take. Not only because, like, it's really valuable, but, like, it's going to be a cost that you're never going to be able to overcome. If you speak an hour of my time, it's like, you got to be able to make a million a year, and that's just at cost. That's break even. Like, I would like to get a return on my time, right? So you got to be able to make 10 million a year for me. For me to give you an hour a week of my time. I'm not going to be like, I'm not being a dick here. I'm just saying, like, that's just the mess, right? And so the real, real is the higher up. Yep. Yeah. The higher up the person is that you're trying to go after. You might have to do what we just said for somebody who works for Chris, for one of Chris's leaders, and then you prove to that person that you're worth it, and then you get a seat, and then you have. Then you get two or three steps closer. And that's the idea is you keep trading up so that you can get closer to the person. Like, I. I can't reach out to Elon Musk and say, I'll work for you for free, because he wouldn't care. Like, why is he going to care for you?

A (26:50)

He'd be like, alex who? Alex who? No, no, I don't. I don't want him.

B (26:55)

Right? Yeah, that's.

A (26:57)

That's such. That's such. Good, good, good. I freaking love it. Oh, man. So, dude, I. I love. I love how your stuff is just so black and white, right? Like, one plus one equals two or we ain't doing it right? Like, it's just there. There's no. There's no beating around the bush makes it work. So, dude, so how. How does somebody. How does somebody get to Alex or Mosey, right? Like. Like who. What value are you lacking that if, like, somebody offered. Holy crap, Man, I, I would give that guy an hour of my time.

B (27:36)

All right, Two easy ways that you can identify what somebody ahead of you might want that you could offer them for free, right? So number one is look at what they're currently doing and think, is there a way that I can do more of what they're doing or can I help them do it better? Now, I wouldn't say, hey, I think your stuff sucks. I can help you do it better. The amount of people who say that about my social media, like in my DMs are like, Hey, I think you're really missing the mark here on this. They say, from an account that has 500 followers to my million person account. And I'm like, really though? Like, do you think that's the angle you're going to try and take? Like, probably not the best strategy, right? And so it's like, you want to see what I'm currently doing do more. See, like, hey, you, like, you might need more clips of you, right? So I can help do that. And instead of saying it, you do it first, right? You don't say, I can do more clips, just do it. Or you say, I think we can do them better because there's some of some trends that you're missing out on. Again, do it and show it, right? Show, don't tell. So that's number one is looking what they're currently doing and can they do more or they can they do it better? The second thing is looking at what they're not doing but you think they should be doing. All right. So for example, I don't have, I don't really email my list at all. Like, we have thousands of people every day that join email list.accentition.com and it's because I do want to make sure that anything I provide is exceptionally valuable and I haven't had time to do it. So, like I've sent like two emails in the last year. And so like somebody who could help take my words from other places and then craft them in the emails that are valuable would be something that would be great for me. They might notice that I'm not on Pinterest, right? Like, I'm not on Pinterest because I don't understand the platform. And so like, if you understand Pinterest and you want, like, then start making Pinterest posts for me. Like, talk about easy opportunities, go somewhere I'm not and help me, like take the stuff I already got and repurpose it. Like, how much time is that for me? Zero. How Much value is it for me, more than zero. Right. Because I'm not doing anything there. Right. And so it's more better of what they're currently doing and then looking at are there places that we can add new into the current mix without them having any cost? Right. So I'm incurring the cost of sifting, sorting, understanding the platform and posting it on Alex's behalf. Now I'm using this as an example, but the person might be going after might not be an influencer or whatever. Like they might have other needs. I'm just giving you like simple examples that someone can think through of like, okay, how do I make an offer for Alex? I love it. What are yours? So yeah, what do you.

A (30:00)

Perfect perfect dude, man, like, yeah, yeah, so. So right. So right now, man, to your exact point, like, like I'm not phenomenal at YouTube, right? Like I'm, I'm just. Just getting going. Just getting going on YouTube, really starting to understand that platform. It's a platform that I've avoided for, for so long, right? Instagram, Facebook, known that for a while, known how to do the marketing and whatnot. But yeah, Pinterest, I mean a lot. A lot of the things that you're, you're saying email. I mean, dude, me, Me and you operate a lot very, very similar, right? I don't email a list. I don't, I don't post on Pinterest. I don't, you know, all these, all these things really starting to, to get into, you know, and, and for me, it's like if you, if somebody could come and help me figure out how to, you know, better. Better leverage my, my time in, in a lot of ways as far as like identifying deals, like bringing me deals to the, to the table, right? Because, because I'm, I'm in a, in a similar position as you where I'm, I'm in deal mode, right? Like looking and evaluating or whatnot. If somebody went and actually sifted through a deal and said, Chris, this is the reason, like, hey, not only am I bringing you a deal, but I did all the due diligence and the research and here it is. Right, right. Like and, and can cut out a lot of the, the my time, my, my effort or whatnot and, and would actually physically bring it to me. I mean, that, that right there, you know, when it, whenever, but whenever somebody like shows up and, and does something that is of high value, like, it's, it's really hard to turn that person down. Especially if, like you said, they are one to two steps behind you right now. If it's some, some employee that's never done a deal, that's never done whatever, and they're trying to bring a deal to me, no way. But if somebody's got a track record and it's like, hey, you know, oh, I, I've done a thousand transactions over the last three years and I've done transactions with Alex, I've done transactions with, you know, this, that, and the other person. And this is why you're going to want, you're gonna look at what I have to offer or what I'm bringing you the value I'm creating. Like I'm paying attention, right? And so yeah, man, like there's. There, there are so many, so many different ways and, and people just aren't creative enough, right? Like it's, they just go and they do the stupid DMS that they copy and paste across a hundred different influencers platforms and, and they expect results which, you know, you gotta applaud the, the hustle. But it's like, dude, just, just, just think for a minute. Think like, would this, if I was sitting in your shoes, would this appeal to me? And you know, and so it's, it's, it's interesting, dude. So acquisition.com obviously a big shift from, from gym launch. Like what, what are. I love your play right now is like just create value, value, value, value, value and basically have the natural, like people reach out and then where you just have your, your picking. What, what are you, what are you focusing on with acquisition.com as far as like, if you had the ideal company to invest in, what would that look like?

B (33:14)

So an ideal company to invest in, you know, for us is going to be doing, you know, two to $10 million in EBITDA. They're going to have a founder that wants to, wants to scale. It's a big one. A lot of times people think they want to scale, but then like they, they don't actually want to scale. You know what I mean? Like, they double or triple their income and then they're like, oh, wow, I'm good. Like, we had a company that we tripled the profit for. And then all of a sudden like the CEO was golfing every day and I was like, bro, what's up? He's like, dude, I'm making more money than ever made my entire life. I'm like, yeah, but like, I'm not in this for this triple. I'm in this for a 20x or 50x. Like, that's why I want to do this, right? Like, we want to do big stuff. And so it's like, they have to have big eyes, they have to have big dreams of what they want to accomplish. They have to be coachable. And that's a big one because. And this is actually probably one of the hardest ones to find, is that anyone who's achieved a certain level of success has some level of confidence that they're good, right? But the problem is, like, if you've never, you know, the difference between. And you can appreciate this difference between a million a month and 10 million a month is oceans. You know what I mean? And they're like, oh, I'll just do 10 times what I'm currently doing. It's like, because if it were, then you wouldn't be stuck right now. And so they, they. They have to, like, because there's really two aspects of this. So, like, I'll rewind real quick. There's the business component and there's the founder, right? Like, who are we doing the deal with now? For us, the founder matters a lot more than to, like, a traditional private equity firm. And because traditional private equity firms exclusive almost exclusively buy majority, we sometimes buy majority. But if we buy majority, it's like a micro. Like, you know, we're like 51. You know what I mean? And that might be because we have some sort of brand element that we're tying into it or whatever reason, right? Like, of all the holdings, we only have one majority. We will probably do more because that one's doing really, really well. But most of our deals are like, you know, 33, 49, 51. You know, I mean, that's kind of the range that we do. We have a couple early deals I did at 20, but there's the founder in the business. The founder is coachable. They are have big dreams. We like, actually hanging out with them. Because this is like, if I don't look forward to talking to somebody, like, to me, that's a big red flag. Like, if during the process, any of us have any hesitations, we have this thing called the five flags, which is like, if any of these five red flags come up, we stop the deal immediately. So we don't need, like three strikes, we just need one, right? And so we just try and codify. Everyone's looking at these things, right? Like, if there's any kind of dishonesty or any discrepancy between numbers, if we feel like they have, like, a culture of, like, fear within their organization, those are all, like, signs for us that we're like, okay, this is probably not a good fit. On the business side, it's the more traditional stuff. Like, it needs to be of a certain size, which for us is. Yeah, so, yeah, if the business. Certain size, like 2 to 10.

A (36:01)

So I want to dive. I want to.

B (36:04)

Go for it. Go for it. Yeah. Sorry, we have a lag.

A (36:06)

Sorry. I think there's a little lag here, but I want to. I want to.

B (36:10)

You're good.

A (36:10)

You're good, dude. So I want to dive a little bit deeper into. Because you said you want to have somebody that has big goals, not someone when they triple, they're going to go be on the golf course. So obviously that can't be motivated by money because both you and I know that, like, money is essentially oxygen, right? Like, once you have enough, it, it no longer motivates or pushes or, or whatnot. So, like, how do you identify the person that really is able to be driven past money, past accomplishment, past, you know, a certain level of achievement where how are you identifying that person?

B (36:48)

So it's usually in the language patterns that they'll present with. And so I'll give you a couple different examples that are different but still would accomplish the same thing. So some of them might be like, I really want to create an amazing place to work, right? That would be one where, like, that's going to continue to grow. Like, they might want to continue to get more and more people in and create an amazing place to work. If they said, I want to change this industry, it's like, if you want to change an industry, it's going to like, you have to have a big vision for it. If you want to change a community, same thing. Like, if you want to change a local area, like, again, big, big impact. Some, some of them, it's like, I just want to do something big. Or like their desire is to see what they're capable of. Like, they want to test their own metal. And so the whole point of the game for them is to continue to move the bar, right? That would be another example. And some of them just straight up say, like, I do want to make a ton of money. And to me that's fine as long as that's true, right? Like, you know, they're like, I want to get to a billion dollar company, that's badass. Like, that's fine. I totally respect that. But it's that they actually want that and they already have all their personal needs fulfilled. Like, if they already have their monetary needs fulfilled and they still say that to me, I'm like, okay, this guy wants to run.

A (37:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So what are the. What are the red. So those are, like, the positive flags. What are the red flags that. That you see of, like, somebody that will be satisfied?

B (38:14)

Usually they just talk in small numbers. They talk in small numbers. And this is from the business perspective. The majority of our flags are actually about the founder. So, like, the red flags for the business are just like, okay, if it's going down, if it's not profitable, if we don't see a path for growth, if it feels too complicated, if the founder has shiny object syndrome so they can't focus on one thing, they're like, oh, yeah, I've got this other business I want to start. This actually happens all the time. Somebody comes to us, they're like, I've got this business I want to partner with you on. I've got these other three businesses too. And I'm like, close all those, and I'll work with you on this. And so it's like. And sometimes guys will do that. And then they come back. I'm like, this guy's in it. Other guys are like, I can't do that because of X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, cool, then go. Go chase. Chase five rabbits and hope you catch one, you know? And so, like, are they focused? Are they coachable? Are they honest? And honesty is like. You know, a lot of people think about it in terms of, like, black and white, like, honest or dishonest, but it's really, like, how honest are you? Like, if I hear a lot of exaggeration at all points in time, like, everything just seems to be rounded, you know? I mean, like, oh, we're amazing. Everything's like, if you don't know where the bodies are buried, you're not close enough. Like, you should know where the bodies are buried in every single department. Right? And that's actually one of my limits test as a CEO. Not that I am anymore, but when I was CEO, if I don't know what's going wrong in every department, I'm too far away. Like, I should know. Like, if something's just good, it means I don't. I don't know what's going on. Because, of course, there should always be opportunities for improvement. So I got to know what's. What's happening. So if I hear that kind of language, those are red flags. And then just the big one of just they. They seem. They talk in small numbers in terms of growth, and they talk in small numbers in terms of the ultimate size that they want to grow the thing. And because like, I can't, I can't make you believe more than you do. Right, right.

A (39:58)

You know, you, you bring up, you bring up a great point of not only knowing where the bodies are, are buried in different departments, but being willing to admit where the body, bodies are buried, right. I think, I think, I think there's, there's an aspect of business owners where they want to lie to themselves. Whether, whether you're in sales, whether you actually own the business, what, whatever, you're managing a department, right. Like one of the most important things in order to enact change, in order to improve and is actually being able to admit we're weak here, we suck at this, this, that and the other. And like getting real, right. You know, non self deceived, right. Self deception, I think is like the greatest downfall of any CEO, any manager, any salesperson, right. Like, I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

B (40:48)

So if they, if they're super micro.

A (40:50)

Tell me, go ahead.

B (40:53)

If they're like microcontrollers, right? Like they want to micromanage everything. Like that's another example of like, because the equal opposite, right, there's the pendulum. Like on one side they're too far, far away, they're too disconnected. The other one is they're too close to everything. And I want to make a point that I think is worth making, but they also have to have realistic expectations of value and they have to be willing to have a smaller slice of a bigger pie. Like a lot of people think they want that until they're like, they want to have the round shape of the pie, right? And I know you probably can, can preach to this more than anyone that like, the more people who are trying to build something, the bigger it can get, right? Like you didn't have 100% circle of your circle. You. And guess what? Elon Musk has 20% of Tesla, right? But that still made sense. It made sense for him to give 80% to other people to help him build it and he can still become the wealthiest man, you know, on the planet. And so like having to shift that belief in someone is really hard if someone doesn't already come in believing it. Like, I'm willing to part with a chunk of the business in order to have a 10 times or a hundred times more valuable thing, right? Like if, if they don't believe that. And then part of it is also unrealistic expectations of valuation. So this is actually a pretty big one. So they hear about your exit, right? They hear about my exit and they think, oh, that multiple applies to my $2 million profit, you know, company that is basically me with a couple of helpers running around, and if I die tomorrow, the whole thing dies. Like, no, like, it doesn't apply to that business because. And here's, here's a stat that might astound your audience for businesses doing less than 10 million in sales and 2 million in bottom line. All right, so those are the two numbers, top line and 2 million bottom line. The average, like the median trading value is 2 1/2 x on profit. That's the median. All right, so like, that's, that's the, that's the middle, right? And, and over 80%, depending on the source. So this is SBA. So small business administrations, when it comes out with these stats, have a huge component of seller financing. And so that 2 1/2x is also not cash. Like that. 2 1/2x is the total enterprise value. And the person who's bought, like, so, like, let's say you did a hypothetical deal with somebody doing $1 million a year. Okay? So one in profit. All right, so $1 million a year in trailing 12 months. And let's say they got the median valuation. So the person who's buying is adding no value. They're just buying the asset. They're coming in to do nothing. Right? Because that's who is. Is buying this. Right? If you and I might want to buy something, I would expect to get a discount on something because I'm going to be doing a little work to grow the thing, right? Like, I don't want to pay you to work, right? So the idea is like, okay, let's think through this. Million dollars, two and a half X is the. Is the median. And let's say 90% of them have seller carry. Okay, well, if you're selling half the business, then now we're at 1.25 and let's say, and you have a seller carry, so you might only get a few hundred thousand dollars for half the business. Now, again, the part of it is that people then in that situation, and this is where deals don't happen, is that they're like, I'm worth at least 10. It's like, you're not, bro. Like you're not. Because you can't walk away. Like, you could walk away from business. And it still grows. Like, gym launch continues to grow. And Alex is on a podcast with Chris right now. The idea is that you have to build an asset that can grow on its own. And, and that takes time. And the thing is that people are really impatient or they feel like they're getting, I mean and to be fair, that's the nature of deals, is that both people have to agree. Right? But like that's a big one, is that a lot of founders will have unrealistic expectations about how valuable the company that built is because they're measuring it based on the effort they've put in rather than the output of what's been created.

A (44:34)

Right? Yeah. It's so interesting how many people are self deceived on the actual total enterprise value. I, I had a guy give me an offer the other day for. He's got an Instagram profile with a ton of followers and, and he's, and he's pro. He's netting like 350 a year and everything like that. And he wanted something like five or six multiples on a social media platform, like a social media account that is dependent on him as the face. And it's just like, dude, what in what world is this worth five to six multiples?

B (45:10)

You're, you're crazy, dude.

A (45:11)

Like, like you get out of here, man. And it's, it's so, it's so amazing like how, how self deceived people are.

B (45:20)

Dude.

A (45:20)

I want to, I want to dive into, to one other thing that you kind of mentioned and I know that you're phenomenal at is like walk me through how you get to know, right? How do you, how do you tell yourself no, right. And get away from like the shiny objects and how do you keep digging in the same hole that is boring or whatnot? Like what are the mental exercises for you as an entrepreneur that keep you disciplined to continue to say no and only say to the yes to the one thing that is giving you the most value?

B (45:54)

It's a really good question and I think that this is probably like if there's a single trade of entrepreneurs that can make them successful, it is if they can master this. And it's also probably the hardest one to master because we're the best people at deceiving ourselves when it comes to this. We convince ourselves that this new opportunity is going to be worth more. And there's a lot of natural follow up questions like, well, when do you know when to pivot? When do you know you've tried enough? When do you need to change your idea? Things like that. I would say that post product market fit. So this is a big caveat and this is why advice gets hard. Because it depends on the season you're in, if you don't have product market fit, meaning people don't want to buy your thing, right? Or they don't like the thing you're selling, then yeah, you should iterate, you should keep trying, keep trying new things until eventually you start getting buyers. At that point, you lock it and then you say, if I only did this thing for the next 10 years, would I get this outcome? And if that outcome is a yes, then anything that's not that, like, you already have the deal with yourself that you're willing to get that big outcome. So like for acquisition, I mean, imagine the amount of opportunities that we get right now that are like, dude, could you like, dude, if you built this thing and like the people are like, dude, you should sell a course. Like, and you know what, if I did, I probably would make more than all course creators. I did that. But would that detract from the one thing that mattered most? Right? And I think most times the focus is that people can't say no to the fast money. And by doing that, they say no to the big money, which is the long money, which is the money you gotta wait for, right? Because like, no big things are built fast. Like, I'm very convinced about this. Like, almost everybody goes through this like five to seven years of eating period, where you just don't, it doesn't feel like you're making progress. And as tacky as this may sound, like your overarching strategy is hope. Like unshakable faith that it's going to happen, but being paranoid about the present, that it's gonna die. Right? So, and I think Jim Collins, he has some sort of justice that he said more elegantly than me, but it's maintaining both those things. And so for me, my, my ultimate vision is that like acquisition.com compounds into a billion or, or higher company and we do it doing it our way, right? And like that's, that's what I want to do. And whether it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, like, it's a game that I'm dedicated to playing and anything. Like, I know the plan that we set out for because we spent 18 months thinking of all the different things we could do. What do we want to do? Said we want to combine social media and investing. That was the big, that was like something old and something new. And we figured if we create proprietary deal flow and do significant value add to businesses that they like, we could, we could, we could buy at good rates and we could add value to them too, because Typically investing is one or the other. Either you buy really cheap, like you buy like that's Warren Buffett's strategies. Buy really cheap right now, he says wonderful companies at fair prices, whatever, or you've got somebody who's like a really niche. Like if you bought solar stuff, which you can't because you have your non compete, but if you didn't have your non compete, like you going into a solar business, it's like, well, you have expertise there and you'll immediately be able to grow it, right? And so you don't even need to buy at a great multiple because you know if you 10x it, it doesn't really matter what you bought it at because you're, it's going to be worth way more. Right? And so for us, we try to combine both those things to create an investment thesis. And the problem with, and like you're, you're in the season now, right, Is that switching from business to investing is a massive change in mindset. Because when you're in business you're used to selling all day, right? It's selling and promoting and selling and selling and selling and selling. But when you're doing deals, it's actually about trying to get to know, which is so counter. Everything that we've, like you and I have had ingrained in our minds is like, God, I want this person to say yes. But the thing is, is that like if you keep upping the price and changing the terms, then you can get someone to say yes, but it might be a terrible deal for you. And so it no longer is about yeses, it's about coming to agreements within a defined box that you define for yourself that like this is a deal that makes sense for me. Right? And so that's been probably one of the hardest transitions for me. Going from business owner to investor but in investment vehicles also doesn't give you the quick hits that business does. Like you and I could rattle the sales team and then boom, we'd see sales and hours later, you know, coming in same day. I can't rattle the deal team and then like get a deal closed, right? Like it just doesn't work that way, right? And so there's this huge lag on when we start doing stuff and we start seeing the results. And so you think about like even improving a process. It's like it might, it might take 90 days or six months to get through from beginning to end on a deal and then we don't even know how the deal went. And it's going to take Us another year or two before we really even see like, okay, this was a good deal. This was a good company. This was a good pick. So your feedback loops are so long, you have to figure out games to play in the meantime so that you can let the big machine work. And so like right now we have a snowball. But I mean, I'm in, I'm in investor years. We're like, I did my first deal in 20, in summer 2020, some three years in. So like, like in investor years, three years is like nothing. It's nothing. It's child's play. And so I had to really change my perspective of like business versus investing. And that's been, that's been a very hard thing to do, but it's changed me a lot and I think hopefully for the better.

A (51:13)

I, I, I love the, I love the distinction between, you know, running a business or being in sales or, or whatnot versus versus investing because you're exactly right. It's drastically different.

B (51:23)

Different.

A (51:23)

I love, I love the phrase in regards to what you're talking about, aggressively patient, right? Like just being aggressive in the moment, but very patient on any results, any lag, any, any, anything that's going. And, and I think that that drastically applies to both sides of, of owning a business and also in, in the, in the investment world, right. Like I'm doing, I'm doing everything to increase deal flow and increase opportunities on one side and the other. I'm, I'm creating as many transactions but not caring about the results and just getting, and it may be boring and maybe, maybe long and maybe, you know, suffering on day to day. And the interesting thing is like, you don't have to be an entrepreneur to apply these principles, right? Like you can be in sales, you can be in a career path, you can be in any one of these things where, where you just got to fall in love with the boring work, not get easily distracted, not looking for another opportunity where, you know, wherever they pop up and because it's, it's the compound effect as, as you talked about earlier as far as like increasing your audience size. Same thing as far as skill set.

B (52:35)

Right?

A (52:35)

Like every, every month, every year that I'm, I'm, you know, hammering down on this one skill set and it's just compounding and then all of a sudden the results come fast and quick at the end.

B (52:50)

Yeah. The amount of growth that your company had in the last year is probably more than it did in the first five years. Right? And so like, that's the thing.

A (53:00)

Oh yeah.

B (53:01)

Yeah, like, and, and it's a, it's a tough gear shift. I mean like this is me just. I know you're, you're in the process of this too, but like when you go from comparing your year seven to year eight growth of a business that you owned to a year two to year three growth of a newer thing that you're doing, it's like we can't compare the two. Like, this is, this is, I'm just saying this is what's been hard for me that I've had to like wrap my head around is that like, I'm like, God, like it'd be so easy for me to add another like 10 million in EBITDA, you know, to the solar business, right? Versus like, or in gym launch, like add another like six or add another 10, whatever it is, right? Like adding that kind of like ebitda. Like that can happen pretty quickly, right? Whereas you know, when you're in the new thing, like you have to think in percentages rather than in, in absolute amounts because otherwise you'll just get way too bogged down. Like you'll get way too sad about how things are working as fast as you want them to. And so that's, that's been helped too is the shifting from absolutes to percentages to relative changes. And, and also just at least for me, thinking that like different businesses have different pain at different times. And so like, I'll give you a quick extreme example. It's like on one extreme you've got like info businesses, right? There's lots of people who have those. The pain that you experience is when you want to get past a million a month, 2 million a month, 3 million a month. So you basically pick a vehicle that's easy to start, easy to make money fast for, but you're not going to make massive money, right? It's very hard to do it. Not so you can't. Very, very hard. On the flip side, you start a software company and like if you do it the right way, you're probably not going to make any money at all for a long period of time. And so all your pain is front loaded. But once you achieve critical mass, then the things just starts compounding on its own month over month over month and at no incremental cost to you. And the thing becomes a profit monster, right? And so it's like those are completely opposite sides of the spectrum and it's really just like, where do you want your pain? And if you know ahead of time, this is where the pain's going to happen not being surprised when the pain comes.

A (55:03)

Right. You know, I, that, that is one of my favorite principles that I, I believe applies to every area of life. Your, your fitness, your relationships, everything is choosing pain now versus versus later, right? If I choose, if I choose pain now, I experience real long lasting fruit later. If I choose pain later, I get fake fruit. Short bursts, quick, you know, quick hitters, right? Like I, I hit the, I hit the alarm clock in the morning, right? Hit the snooze button. I get a quick hitter in the morning, right? Like I, I get, I feel, I feel good sleeping a little bit longer or whatever it is. But I miss my, I, I miss my fitness routine or whatever it is, you know, which, the long pain is way, way more enduring, way way worse. And so this, this principle applies to literally everything I want to, I want to get your, your take on, on one thing. So I asked, I asked Grant Cardone. It's, it's really, really similar to, to this kind of perspective that, that you're talking about is like so the, the question I asked Grant and, and this and I'll give you what he, he answered and I don't want to hear your, your thoughts on it. Was a young, young guy. He's wanted to launch his, wanting to launch his first business and he's thinking about taking, taking the leap away from corporate America going and do it. What do you, what do you advise? Like what advice do you have for that guy? Grant said, he said don't do it. He said don't, don't go and launch a business. He said go and find somebody that has put in the years of essentially compounding and is pumping the brakes. Go and figure out how to partner up with them and leverage that compound that's already been created, right? And, and participate in the upside. And I think it's a lot of like what you're, what you're talking about as far as like year seven through eight is way easier to make way more money than zero to one, one to two, what, whatever it may be. And so with that like what, what are your thoughts, what are your thoughts on that question, on that advice?

B (57:08)

So this is a really great question and I think that I will have slightly, a slightly different take than Grant and it's not because I disagree with his advice but because I think it depends on the context that it's given. And so I think that for me to start over or for you to quote, start over. I have a lot of experience in business and so for me it Makes sense to go partner with those companies and, you know, let them have incurred that first cost so that I can walk with them to the much bigger upside. Right. It's just that if you have no business experience, one, it's tough to get that business owner to say, yeah, you're going to be a huge value add to my business. And number two, you also probably like. And if that person doesn't say that and you want to go the finance route of, like, I can route some friends and family and get a bank loan and then try and buy this business because I took a course on acquisitions or whatever, you still don't know what you're doing and you don't know how to analyze what is a good business because you don't have a baseline. And so a lot of these things are. And again, I agree with the advice from my, like, what is the best opportunity vehicle? I mean, like, private equity is literally based on this. Like, you get into private equity, you start a fund, and you can go make a billion dollars in five years, right? Like, sure. All you got to do is raise a billion dollars, go buy five companies for 200. You know what I mean? Let them double, naturally, over time, and there you go, you made yourself a billion dollars. Like, sounds easy to do. Significant. Yeah. Right? What are we doing here? Right? But why. Why do we suck so much? Right? But it's a lot easier said than done, right? And so, like Grant at his station in life, because I had a conversation with Grant. I'll give you. I'll give you a micro example of this. And so I was thinking about what I was going to do with our big hunk of money, right? And I want to give you two very different perspectives on the advice. All right? So I talked to Dave Ramsey, and I talked to. Sorry, I didn't talk to David. I watched a video of Dave Ramsey when he was talking about this, and I. And I had a conversation, Greg, about this. So Grant said, go buy a massive building. He said, go buy the biggest building you can possibly buy. That's what. That's. That's what you should do. And I think the caveat there is that's what Grant should do. Because Grant's been doing real estate for 30 years. And so for him, him putting all of his eggs in one basket, he's like, yeah, I can't lose. He's like, yeah, you just pick it and get a manager in there. Done, right? Dave had slightly different perspective. Dave said, if your experiences and your skills were a pie, right? So think about a pie. 100%. He said, how would your experiences break down between investment assets? You got like stocks and bonds. You've got the skills, you have, you've got business, you've got crypto, whatever it is. How does that pie circle out for you? When I look at my pie, it's 100% business. It's all business, right? And so when I heard that advice and I talked to a lot of people when I was in the, like, really the season that I think you're, you're, you just entered right now, which is like the post transaction season, right? I talked to every single guy I know who was worth over a hundred million. Every single guy I probably had, I don't know, I want to say minimum 40 conversations with guys who were worth a hundred to multiple billions, right? And was like, what should I do? And what tough part was, is that all of them gave me different advice. And so what they, what many of them gave me is they gave me what they would do. And that's, and that's, to be fair, that's fine. They're like, this is what I would do. This is what I did. Right? But the thing is, like, you're not them. And so for me, I'm good at business. That's where all my experience is. That's where I can recognize risk, I can recognize value. I can see where I can add value. Like, I can see all that stuff. If you put an apartment building that's worth 20 million in front of me and you put a business that's worth 20 million in front of me, dude, I like, I, I got to the end of like four different real estate transactions that were in the neighborhood of like 15 to 30 million, right? And I would get right to the end, you know, like, I'd do all the deals I had, the Excel sheets, the projections, all this stuff, right? And right before I needed to write the check for like 3 million or 5 million, I was like, I don't know, I don't know. I've never done this. I don't know, right? And I didn't want to buy a tiny house. Who gives?

A (61:10)

Right?

B (61:10)

Right. Why am I going to buy $100,000 house? It's a waste of time, right? Whereas me pulling up to a business that's worth 20, me writing a check there for 5 million, I can do it in an instant. I don't even need the complex project. Like, I know what I get the business. Like, I know what's, I know where the risks are. Like, I get, I Know the termites, the toilets, the tenants, whatever it is for that business. And so I absolutely agree that the, the best opportunity is leveraging what already exists and then go, going more, right? That's the entire private equity industry. The hard part is how do you have, how do you develop the skill set to get to that point. And so I think that's the, that's the nuance that I would add to which is like once you have five years or 10 years. And this is why in my opinion, most businesses at, on a long enough time horizon become investment firms. Like they become on some level of it, they have to reallocate capital. Now the first and obvious place that you reallocate capital is within the business. You look at how can we bolster out new, new product offerings or new business lines or whatever it is, right? And then the second kind of layer of investing is that you look at strategic acquisitions. You see if you can buy other companies that are, that are accretive or value add to your own business, right? If you can vertically integrate, I mean your business is like an obvious perfect example. It's like, okay, well if I can buy the financing company and I can buy the manufacturer of the solar pieces and not just have the sales team, I'm going to have a way more valuable business. Like that's a, it's an accretive acquisition, right? The third level is just saying, is there another place that I can allocate capital that will get me a higher return than my current thing, right? And so all businesses, once they are successful enough, become investment firms. They have to make decisions based on returns on capital. And so I figured if that's where I, if that's where all businesses eventually lead, then that's what I'm going to focus on at scale. And so that's my two cents is like you gotta learn the bit, you gotta learn a game. And then once you learn the game, then you can recognize where the arbitrage opportunities are so that you can unlock all the upside. And I'm sure that the many people who gave specific advice would probably agree with me on that if given an extra two minutes to answer the question.

A (63:14)

Dude, I love it. So, you know, the interesting thing is like, exactly to your point, right? In order to get to a point where you can go and leverage a big business, you have to have the experience, you have to have the skillset. And there's really two different routes that you can go to get there, right? You can go the employment route, you can go as an employee and I think if you're going to be as, as an employee, you're going to want to be an intrapreneur. And typically that's, that's in a sales aspect, right? Like go and learn the product, learn how to sell, learn how to elevate it, try to participate in, in some long term incentive plan or whatever it is. But you're building a skill, right? Right. Getting up to a point where then later you can leverage and where somebody could look at you and say, hey, this guy can add value. I'd be willing to share in some upside to help me scale up. Or you can go the entrepreneurial route, go and fail, figure out things, whatever it may be. And so it's really, I love your advice that like yes, Grant, that's perfect advice after you have positioned yourself to be able to do so and so that, that's, that's absolutely, yeah, just, just phenomenal stuff. Well, last, last piece, last piece of advice that I want and then we'll let you go. So somebody is, is just going through a tough time, whether it's in a relationship business, like really, really struggling, wondering, know, can I keep going? Like, is this even worth it? What advice are you giving to that person?

B (64:49)

Whenever I have the thoughts like why do I even bother? Like why should I keep going? I just remind myself that this is the point where most people quit and that's why they don't win.

A (65:04)

Love that. Love that. So just keep going, man. Man, I, I, I, Dude, I, Alex, dude, thanks for your time. I love everything you stand for as far as just like being a player in the game, falling in love with, with the, the boring work. Heck, I even, I even love your desserts. I can't, I can't participate the same way that you do with desserts. Dude, I eat a piece of bread. I gained five pounds. Wish, wish I had the, the natural ability to even participate, but dude, appreciate you, love you. Thank you so much for your time. Until next time.