← Next Level Pros
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- [00:00]
A
Today I have the opportunity to share with you another incredible opportunity. This opportunity has the potential to save 20,000 lives in the United States every single year. If you're a contractor, you need to listen to every single word that is going to be shared in this episode where we can talk about how you can improve your bottom line by adding this incredible service to your portfolio. So, Jeff, you're out selling this product that some people might think is crazy.
- [00:34]
B
You're true. You're right there. So that often.
- [00:37]
A
So tell me, like, what is this radon stuff? I mean, frankly, like, never heard of it until a little bit ago.
- [00:42]
B
Well, at home sometimes they say that I invented it.
- [00:45]
C
Okay.
- [00:46]
B
This invisible gas, is this snake oil or whatever? We've been called snake oil salesman as well? Yeah, definitely.
- [00:52]
A
I mean, you did start off in car sales.
- [00:56]
B
Nice. Nice tie in.
- [00:58]
A
I like that.
- [00:58]
B
Yeah, it's true. I. I felt like I was going up the ladder a little, right. Car sales, real estate, and then I just went to snake oil. So, I don't know, took a side turn, so. No, but it.
- [01:08]
A
I mean, it is a serious issue. We're talking about 16% of actual lung cancer is being caused by this. So, like, tell me more.
- [01:18]
B
You're as surprised as I was when I learned about it, right? It's. It's, it's. It's. It's an amazing thing. It's invisible. So that's the snake oil. That's where that comes in. It's an invisible radioactive gas that's natural. It's in the ground, everywhere.
- [01:31]
A
Can't smell it.
- [01:32]
B
Can't smell it, can't taste it. Nothing.
- [01:35]
A
All right.
- [01:35]
B
You can only test for it.
- [01:36]
A
Okay.
- [01:37]
B
Use a tester, and then you send that test away to the lab.
- [01:39]
A
Sounds a lot like carbon monoxide had they not added a thing to make it be able to smell.
- [01:45]
B
Exactly. Right?
- [01:46]
A
Yeah.
- [01:46]
B
Yeah. Okay, definitely.
- [01:47]
A
Interesting.
- [01:48]
B
But radon kills a lot more people than carbon monoxide.
- [01:51]
A
Really?
- [01:51]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [01:52]
A
You kidding me?
- [01:53]
B
Yes.
- [01:53]
A
Wow.
- [01:53]
B
Yeah.
- [01:54]
A
Tell me more.
- [01:55]
B
Huge. So, like you said, 16 of all lung cancer is caused by radon gas. And that's in the world. That's a stat by a bunch of different. Of the scientists all over the world.
- [02:04]
A
And, and so why aren't more home service companies offering this?
- [02:08]
B
I think it's a lack of knowledge and unknown. It's. It's an unknown when I talk to people about it. There's a lot of the population, if they're doctors or if they're contractors or if they're school teachers that don't know about it. It doesn't really matter what they do. I've taught many doctors about radon that are cancer doctors, but they didn't know anything about it. Right.
- [02:28]
A
So, so what you tell me. I mean it's. Frankly these are the kind of industries I love where it isn't a demand based service. Because like most home service companies are in the demand space, right? Toilets leaking, call a plumber, H VAC ain't working, call, call a technician. Right. Like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And the demand stuff. The problem with that obviously is that the price keeps getting driven lower and lower. There's a cheap guy down the street that's willing to do it for X, Y and Z. I need it now. Let' go. Versus these educational type products that are actual, actually real. Right. Like that we're dealing with the consequences but we don't know it. Right, Exactly. Which is in my, in my book. I love that stuff. Right. Like that's why I love the solar industry because a lot of people didn't realize like they had a choice outside of just paying their electric bill every single month. They didn't realize the pain that they're in currently. Which I would say is akin to what you're speaking to, Right?
- [03:26]
B
Yeah.
- [03:27]
A
Know they're dealing with it.
- [03:28]
B
Most definitely. It's, it's, it's, it's exciting for me to be able to educate. It's, it's, it goes right back to my why of teaching and serving. I can teach people about this thing that's an unknown that they didn't know about that could be causing them harm, them and their family. And they didn't know.
- [03:42]
C
Can you, can you explain what radon is?
- [03:46]
B
Yeah, sure, no problem. Let's go right back to the beginning.
- [03:48]
C
Go back to the beginning. It's important.
- [03:49]
B
So radon is a radioactive gas.
- [03:51]
A
How's it created?
- [03:52]
B
And it's created by the breakdown of uranium in the ground. So wherever there's uranium in the earth, that uranium is breaking down radioactively.
- [04:01]
A
Are there certain places in the world that have more uranium than others?
- [04:06]
B
Yes, most definitely. Yeah. It depends on where it is. Now 3% of the Earth's crust is made up of uranium and then that spread, like you said, different areas. North America are one of those areas. In one of those areas that has a lot of uranium in the ground.
- [04:18]
A
What is uranium? Isn't uranium used for like radioactive like.
- [04:23]
B
Yeah, most definitely. There's mines for uranium, right? Uranium. I've been asked a lot of time, can we do anything with radon? I Haven't figured that out. So.
- [04:33]
A
So you're telling me that radon is the byproduct of uranium.
- [04:37]
B
Correct. Okay, yes, it's one of the byproducts. It actually forms a bunch of different metals, and then at one point, it turns into a gas.
- [04:44]
A
And why is it so bad for us?
- [04:45]
B
Well, because like we said, it's invisible. You can't see it, smell it, taste it, so you don't know it's there. But. But we breathe it in. So what happens is when it comes outside in your front yard and goes out into the atmosphere, it doesn't hurt you. It's in atmosphere, dissipates. Dissipates. But when it gets stuck under your house. Right. When you build a house and you put a big concrete slab down on the floor, you just stopped radon from coming out of the ground. So it builds up under that house, and then.
- [05:10]
A
Can I just say how cool it is the way you say house? I was out and about.
- [05:18]
B
So clearly you're.
- [05:20]
A
You're not from the U.S. correct.
- [05:22]
B
How did you know?
- [05:23]
A
And you're, like, the. The president of this, like, association, right? The radon in Canada.
- [05:29]
B
Yeah, exactly. I've been involved in organized radon for nine years now. All right, Sorry I took you. I, I, you know, I take you away from it.
- [05:36]
A
So you built the house, and on.
- [05:38]
B
Here, you build the house. All right. And your. So your concrete slab is stopping it. Right. It's like a cap on the earth so the radon can't get out. Got it. Then you build your house in house. You make it. Every time I say that now. I'm sorry, now you sound Canadian.
- [05:52]
A
I'm sor.
- [05:54]
B
So when you build that house and you make it nice and tight, and the walls are insulated and vapor buried, and we're in Canada, so we need to make them tight and insulated. Yeah. As you guys do here as well. So when you make that nice and tight heat and then you introduce heat. Right. What does heat do in the air? It rises.
- [06:08]
A
Right.
- [06:09]
B
So as heat goes up in your house, it creates a positive air pressure upstairs and a negative air pressure in the lowest level. So slab or basement doesn't matter. But it's a negative air pressure right there.
- [06:19]
A
What does that mean? Sucking stuff up.
- [06:21]
B
Exactly.
- [06:21]
A
Right.
- [06:22]
B
Your house is like a vacuum cleaner. On the air, it sucks in humidity. It's why we need dehumidifiers and basements. Sometimes it follows the same pathway. Got it. So it's coming in through your sump pit. It's coming in around your plumbing pipes, the cold joint between the concrete floor and the concrete wall, that little gap, that's where the radon's all being sucked in. But the problem is we can't see it.
- [06:42]
A
So is this mainly an issue with newer homes or older homes?
- [06:46]
B
That's. I get that question all the time.
- [06:47]
A
Yeah.
- [06:48]
B
So it, it's me. It's a. It's a geological lottery.
- [06:52]
A
Okay.
- [06:52]
B
So it doesn't matter how old the house is. It matters what ground it's sitting on.
- [06:55]
A
But I mean, older homes are less airtight windows, those type of things. So probably less of an issue.
- [07:01]
B
Most definitely. Because. Okay, you have dilution. Right. Natural dilution coming in through those. And as we.
- [07:07]
A
So high electric bill, no radon, you feel good.
- [07:10]
B
I wouldn't say no. Because you can still get some crazy high levels. Right. But lower than it would be.
- [07:15]
A
Got it.
- [07:16]
B
Here's the problem. When we start renovating our homes and making them more energy efficient, which is a good thing. Right. We're saving on energy. Saving, saving on costs. But when you do that, you actually increase the radon because now that stack effect with the heat rising is tighter. Like you said, there's no more dilution there.
- [07:31]
A
Right. Hey, guys, it's Chris. If you're finding value in what you're hearing, go ahead and like, and subscribe. That way people just like you can find this content for free here on YouTube. Now let's dive back in the show.
- [07:41]
C
We talked about this. Obviously you own a window company too. Separately. But I have single. I used to have single pane windows in my 1950s house.
- [07:48]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:49]
C
The. The suction, the air could escape from the, from the non tightness of the windows. But when I put high efficiency windows in, there was no. I felt. No.
- [07:59]
B
This is what you wanted.
- [08:00]
C
Right?
- [08:01]
B
Right.
- [08:01]
C
Phenomenal for the window. But the radon has nowhere to go.
- [08:04]
B
Exactly.
- [08:04]
C
Which is why this is such a, such an important thing as we have introduce high efficiency systems. Much more insulated homes. The radon of gas cannot escape.
- [08:14]
B
Exactly.
- [08:15]
C
So you're just living it and breathing.
- [08:16]
B
It and living it and breathing it. And when I've been into many homes that have really high levels of radon, like extremely high. And when you breathe here, you don't know.
- [08:23]
A
Right.
- [08:23]
B
No different than mine in your house.
- [08:25]
A
Right. So when we talk about 20,000Americans that are dying a year from radon.
- [08:30]
B
Yes.
- [08:30]
A
Is it all associated with cancer or are there other things that radon shows up in your health?
- [08:36]
B
That's a great question. And it's one we get fairly often the studies have all been done on the lung cancer. It's really the lung cancer. We have feelings about what else could be causing it or what else it could be causing. We don't know until we start really fixing it on a large scale. But we will see rate lung cancer rates reduce as we test and mitigate homes.
- [08:57]
A
So really, I mean, it's. It's a minimum of 20,000Americans are dying per year. Like that's just associated, that's just associated with cancer. We have no idea the, the other ways that it's impact impacting our health and showing it up in our energy and our. Those type of things.
- [09:12]
B
That's right. There's more studies being done now that are interesting. They're seeing correlations. We're not yet ready to say causation. Yeah. But the correlations with some other pretty serious illnesses.
- [09:24]
C
So does it work that when you're breathing in the radon, then something in the, the radon gas changes some chemistry in your lungs and then that's what causes cancer?
- [09:34]
B
Sort of. I'll explain it. So radioactive. And I've learned a lot about radioactivity. Before it was all in comic books. Right. That's all we knew about radioactivity. And your, your skin's melting. Right.
- [09:42]
C
Or radioactive and you become a superhero.
- [09:45]
B
Yeah, it's both ways. Those are the better, better comments right there. Yeah. So when, when radon, anything radioactive, when it radioactively disintegrates, it breaks down and forms the next thing. It's kind of cool. Radon actually is not the thing that hurts you. Radon is a sexier word. But radon, when it breaks down and goes through its disintegration, it turns back into a metal. Polonium or bismuth. There's way harder to spell and they're not that sexy. So we talk about radon and they're harder to test, but those little microscopic pieces of metal, they're floating around in the air and you breathe them in, they'll tend to get lodged in your lung and they go through their disintegration and break down to lead, radioactive lead after that. And if they are stuck in your lung and they disintegrate, that the energy that gets shot out when the radioactive disintegration happens, if that damages your cell, that cell replicates and it's cancer.
- [10:38]
A
Okay, so, wow. Sounds very technical and I probably will never understand it. But let's, let's ask the question that all the home service guys are wondering. What's the average ticket?
- [10:50]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [10:51]
A
What's in it for me. How do I. How do I go? And so, like, what are. What are you seeing for, like, when you identify, hey, this home needs it. What are you doing for that home?
- [11:00]
B
Great, great questions. There's a bunch of them there. And I'll unpack them. So what we do first is we have to measure how hard your house is sucking on the ground when we're fixing it. So go there first. Right. You have to measure that with micromanometers, and then you figure out how. How can I get the radon from. From coming into the house? I want to get it out. So we suck under the floor. We're going to drill cord, reel down through the floor, and we're going to make sure air is moving underneath.
- [11:25]
A
So what's happening? When you're sitting on a slab, you're just going to drill through their floor, Correct?
- [11:29]
B
Yeah. Where? Well, wherever they'll let us.
- [11:32]
A
I mean, we're talking in the garage. We talking.
- [11:35]
B
But we're gonna try to stick in the mechanical room. Of course.
- [11:37]
A
Okay, so what happens if you're not built on a slab? You're built on, like, a crawl space? Is. Is my house an issue? Is my house an issue?
- [11:47]
B
It's. It's. It's still an issue.
- [11:49]
A
Okay.
- [11:49]
B
And you don't have a concrete floor to stop it in a. In a crawl space with a dirt floor.
- [11:54]
A
Right.
- [11:54]
B
Let's say. Well, there's nothing to stop it. So it's actually. That stack effect is sucking more radon in. Okay. You'll have. You have higher chances. And the fix means that now I have to install a complete airtight bear barrier on the floor. Thick plastic. And then we suck underneath that plastic instead of underneath the floor.
- [12:13]
A
Okay.
- [12:13]
B
So we have to install a barrier and then suck underneath that. So it gets. It gets to be more expensive. And our guys don't like.
- [12:18]
A
So this is just to test. You're going and drilling in there on their slab?
- [12:23]
B
No, no. Testing is simple.
- [12:24]
A
Tell me. Tell me the test.
- [12:25]
B
Testing is really easy. So in the states and Canada, there's different regulations, of course. Yeah. So in, you can test for 48 hours. You put a tester in your home, 48 hours later, send it to the lab, and then they'll get your results.
- [12:38]
A
There's no instant results. I can't walk in with a little.
- [12:42]
C
Because radon is dynamic.
- [12:43]
B
Yeah.
- [12:44]
C
It depends on the weather and temperature.
- [12:46]
B
It's coming in, breaking down, coming in, breaking down. So it goes up and down every hour. And we can see that. And really In Canada, we say we have to test for 90 days, not two. So we're way worse. Oh, yeah, yeah. You want to wait 90 days?
- [12:58]
A
That's the regulation. If I want to sell something to a customer, I got to wait 90 days in Canada.
- [13:04]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [13:04]
A
Another reason why I don't live in Canada.
- [13:07]
B
It's cold up there too. Oh, my gosh.
- [13:10]
A
So what about here in the US it's 48 hours. 48 things.
- [13:13]
B
48 hour test. Here's the problem. Here's the only problem. We found it. We found that when you test in the summertime when the heat's not on and you only test for 48 hours, you might get a low level and it's high in the winter. So in Canada, we test 90 days in the winter. Here it's different, but there's different regulations for each state. So there, and there's, I think there's about 30 or 32 states that have regulation for radon testing mitigation.
- [13:38]
A
Interesting.
- [13:38]
B
But really the testing is fairly inexpensive. You can do it yourself. And now in the last three or four years, they've come out with these digital radon monitors.
- [13:45]
A
Right.
- [13:46]
B
So now you can put one in your house. Yeah, you got to wait 24 hours and then it's going to show you a number.
- [13:50]
C
One of the things I love about the radon test kits the most is that it's, it's objective. It's not like you might need this or this happens. It's like, hey, if you test for radon and you have high levels of radon, the logical conclusion is radon mitigation.
- [14:06]
B
Exactly.
- [14:06]
A
Is there, is there a chance that I could like show no radon for a year and then all of a sudden radon starts pumping up into my house? I mean, does that happen?
- [14:17]
B
That can happen if you're using the short term test in that wrong season. Right. That can happen. But typically, no. Typically we say that if you test, then test every five years. If it wasn't high, let's say. Right. Test every five years or after a major renovation, especially energy efficiency ones.
- [14:34]
A
Are there, are there any like thermostats or whatnot that have this tester built in?
- [14:38]
B
Not yet.
- [14:38]
A
Why?
- [14:39]
B
Well, I'm sure there's people talking.
- [14:40]
A
Oh my God. If you haven't, like, who's the guy out there?
- [14:44]
B
Get it done. Shoot. I know a couple of those guys that are talking to some people.
- [14:47]
A
Mike seems like a no brainer.
- [14:49]
B
Good night. Well, the digital monitors I was telling you about, those digital monitors, they'll show you a level and then you just keep watching it so much.
- [14:56]
A
How much do I charge a homeowner to go and do this service?
- [15:00]
B
Testing is cheap, but the mitigation is where the dollars are. Okay, Right. So the testing is like your loss leader.
- [15:05]
C
Right.
- [15:05]
B
Like we do testing for free at times, whatever. Right. Why not give up testers?
- [15:09]
A
Yeah.
- [15:10]
B
Because how much is.
- [15:10]
A
How much is a tester?
- [15:12]
B
So retail. Okay. 50, 60 bucks.
- [15:15]
A
Wholesale. Yeah.
- [15:17]
B
What.
- [15:17]
A
How much am I paying as the dealer?
- [15:19]
B
You're going to pay half of that?
- [15:19]
A
Probably 25 bucks.
- [15:21]
B
I would think so.
- [15:21]
A
So if I'm giving some, you buy them in bulk.
- [15:23]
B
You know what I mean? Right.
- [15:23]
A
Okay, so if I'm. I'm paying 20 and we talking CAD or USD?
- [15:28]
B
Good question. So I'm talking CAD that's like, it's cheap. Oh my God. Testing is not that.
- [15:37]
A
All right.
- [15:37]
B
Yeah, we're giving that crap away for free.
- [15:39]
A
All right, good, good. All right. Always good to know. Okay, so we're talking about. Yeah. So like 15, 20 bucks that I can go and I can give a test away from free. What am I charging the customer? What's my cost actually? Because, you know. So you're not everybody charges the right way.
- [15:57]
B
No, exactly. And it really depends on your business model. Okay. Right now what we're. What I'm seeing in the states is a lot of the radon business is geared around real estate transactions. Right. Because they see that as a great time to have a test. They do the 48 hour test. But what happens with the pricing in a real estate transaction, from my experience is that the seller is now having to fix that to stamp the deal as good as. Well, the seller doesn't care about value. Right. It's hard to sell the.
- [16:22]
A
Are they doing that's radar radon testing in real estate. But as. Is it required?
- [16:28]
B
There are some states that it's required.
- [16:29]
A
Which states?
- [16:30]
B
I know Maryland is one of them.
- [16:32]
A
Really?
- [16:33]
C
My spot in New York had it.
- [16:35]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:38]
A
Every transaction requires a radon test in some states.
- [16:41]
B
Not a lot.
- [16:41]
A
I mean, in these states.
- [16:42]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:43]
A
Interesting. Okay. So that's when usually it's getting fixed.
- [16:46]
B
Right. But you're. But. But if you're fixing it for the seller, you're going to have a downward pressure on your price because the seller is moving out and they just have to have it fixed.
- [16:53]
A
Yep.
- [16:54]
B
I like to. I like the education part.
- [16:56]
A
Right.
- [16:56]
B
Like we said earlier. So I like to educate outside of a real estate transaction.
- [17:00]
A
Absolutely.
- [17:00]
B
Then you're dealing with the homeowner who's conscious about their health? They have got young kids, they got grandkids, they work out in the, in the basement. And, and they want to make sure they're safe. So dealing with them, then you can really talk about putting that better fan in.
- [17:15]
A
So for that, I mean, we're talking about what we can charge them, but what? Like are we putting a product in? Is it just plastic? Is it labor? Like, how am I fixing this radon issue?
- [17:25]
B
Great question. We didn't answer the pricing thing yet. Yeah, but we'll get to the price.
- [17:29]
A
I just want to know, like, what.
- [17:30]
B
Does it look like?
- [17:31]
A
Yeah, what does a fix look like?
- [17:32]
B
I just go in and wave them wand and then I walk out.
- [17:36]
A
So it is snake oil.
- [17:38]
B
I knew it.
- [17:40]
A
Just joking.
- [17:40]
B
No, I'm joking too. So remember that the house is sucking on the ground. Right. So I measure how hard the house is sucking on the ground. And then I want to reverse the air pressure differential. I want to make it so the house isn't sucking on the ground. So I start sucking under the floor a little bit harder than the house is sucking. And then I.
- [18:00]
C
That's five times with that sound.
- [18:06]
B
And then we spit it outside. So we actually just, we, we, we redirect the radon. We're not getting rid of it. We can't get rid of it. And then what we install is 4 inch PVC pipe and an inline radon fan and then vent it to the outside.
- [18:20]
A
So what you're telling me is it's the majority labor.
- [18:24]
B
Correct.
- [18:24]
A
Okay. And plastic, like what is a typical plastic PVC?
- [18:29]
B
You get Schedule 40 PVC pipe. Right. You need the thick wall stuff. You don't want that radiation coming in.
- [18:33]
A
Yeah.
- [18:34]
B
And in the States, the fan goes on the outside and you have to have an electrical disconnect there for the fan on the outside. Weatherproof, of course. And then in the States, you have to vent it up above the roof line. Okay. It's a little different that way. In Canada we vent it right at the rim Joist.
- [18:50]
A
This sounds like a product of how much is your life worth? Exactly 80, 90% gross margin all day.
- [18:58]
B
Yeah. You're. You're 60 for sure.
- [19:00]
A
How 60? If you're a. Worse.
- [19:01]
B
Come on.
- [19:03]
C
So if you're doing it, if you're doing it in the woos way, the. The average ticket is between 1500-3. $500.
- [19:11]
B
Yes. That's. No, no, no.
- [19:14]
C
USD.
- [19:14]
B
That's USD.
- [19:15]
A
Okay.
- [19:15]
B
Yeah, yeah. I have spoken to some mitigators, like the ones they're doing in the real estate transaction, they're down under that two grand number.
- [19:22]
A
How much is your life worth?
- [19:23]
C
Six grand. At least.
- [19:26]
A
I mean, this is a life insurance policy here.
- [19:29]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [19:30]
A
I mean, what do life insurance policies sell?
- [19:32]
B
That.
- [19:32]
A
I mean, that is thin air. We're also. We're just thinning out the ear here. Yeah.
- [19:37]
B
And I'm gonna put some pipes in so there's something in there when I'm done. There's no. Just magic wand. And then we have to test it. So we test after we fix it.
- [19:45]
A
Okay.
- [19:45]
B
To prove that we fixed it.
- [19:46]
A
Oh, I love it.
- [19:46]
B
And man, when you reduce it, you can reduce it by 90 to 99. So now you're taking that lung cancer risk and just chopping it right down.
- [19:53]
A
And then I am opening a radon shop tomorrow.
- [19:56]
C
And then you have the monitors to monitor the radon in and out.
- [19:59]
A
Yeah.
- [20:00]
B
Pardon me.
- [20:00]
C
Then you have also on the fan, the monitor that tells you.
- [20:04]
B
Yes. Different states have different regulations at home. In Canada, we just have a visual monitor. It's like a YouTube manometer. It just shows the fans operating here in the States. A lot of them are requiring an audible one now as well. And. And you can add that as an option. So there's an audible alarm. If the fan happens to turn off, it'll tell you it's not testing the radon levels. Yeah. It's just the operating of the fan.
- [20:26]
C
Right.
- [20:26]
B
But we now have digital monitors. What I'm. What I'm introducing now in Canada. And it's available in the States. A company called EcoSense. It's. It's an eco guard. And you can put that in the house. There's no screen on it. And I can remotely monitor my customers radon levels. So if they ever go up, I'm Johnny on the spot. I can guarantee the fix. It's a nice recurring revenue model.
- [20:46]
C
Right.
- [20:46]
B
And then you tie that in with.
- [20:47]
C
Your maintenance plan, like the membership.
- [20:49]
B
Yeah.
- [20:49]
C
The thing that I love about this is that it's testable, it's verifiable, it's objective, it has a very good average ticket. And any trade shop can do it.
- [20:59]
B
Yes.
- [20:59]
C
Right. It's just about, hey, I'm at your house. A lot of these houses in this area have radon. I'd love to put a test here for the next 48 hours. They could roll it into the financing that they're doing.
- [21:08]
A
I'm over here calculating the monthly payment, what we're going to get this thing done for, you know, so here we are. Of course, we're gonna charge at least $5,000 for this type of service. We're gonna roll it in on our average, you know, 10 year loan that we're doing for H vac or whatnot. And. Yeah, 10 years. 8. 9. 9. We'll get that. I mean, is 63amonth worth of your life really? I mean, yeah, that's easy. That, that's an easy. I mean, dude, I pay, I pay more for home security and that's just peace of mind.
- [21:39]
B
Exactly.
- [21:40]
A
So I mean, that's a simple sale.
- [21:42]
B
It's, it's, it's not that complicated. Once you, once you can educate. And we try to educate not on fear, but you have to talk about the fear because there's like we said, there's 21, 000 people every year. Americans. That's 21, 000Americans. D preventable cancer. Right, Right. So if, if we tested every house and building. It's not just houses. Right. Anything that's in contact with the earth. If we test every building and house and mitigate all the ones, we get to my goal of reducing lung cancer by 15%.
- [22:12]
A
I love it.
- [22:13]
B
And I just undershot it. 16% is caused by lung cancer, but I like that wow effect.
- [22:17]
A
You'll leave that 1% for someone else.
- [22:19]
B
Well, it's not for me. This is not my goal person.
- [22:22]
A
This is for everyone.
- [22:24]
B
And that's why I'm here. Right. You guys are going to help me get to my goal.
- [22:27]
A
I love it.
- [22:27]
B
By talking to your contractors about this.
- [22:29]
C
That's right.
- [22:29]
B
And then I'm just gonna have my small little part in it.
- [22:32]
A
Oh, it's, it's fun. Yeah. So it seems like a beautiful add on what, how many hours does the typical home take from a labor standpoint? Because I mean, frankly, as a contractor, one of my biggest concerns isn't necessarily, can I add additional services is what does that additional service take away from my other services that I offer. Right. And so just, you know, that opportunity cost.
- [22:54]
B
So what is the average like everything jobs? There's the easy ones and the hard ones. Right. And sometimes we don't know until we get in there.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah.
- [23:01]
B
But for your typical radon mitigation job, I'm going to say 90% of them. It's a one day deal. Okay. We send two guys.
- [23:07]
A
You know, when I say two guys one day.
- [23:09]
B
Yeah, we and I, you could probably do it one guy, but two guys are safer. And it's, it's especially in the states where you're going up the side of.
- [23:16]
A
The house and no skilled labor required. Right.
- [23:18]
B
Like, there's certification. Okay, there is, there's certification. And, and, and like I said, I think there's 30 or so states that have certain certification requirements. But it's not a big bear. It's not a bad bear.
- [23:28]
A
We're talking testing. What, like, what do you have to do?
- [23:31]
B
Yeah, yeah. You take a course, pass test, exam. It's, it's not a long process.
- [23:36]
A
Every laborer involved has to do it.
- [23:38]
B
It depends on the state. But I would say you have to have one guy on the site that's a certified mitigator. That's the best practice. And then a helper.
- [23:46]
A
Really Interesting. Yeah, interesting.
- [23:48]
B
And sometimes my guys, we pay them performance pay. And some guys, sometimes my guys are done at noon and they made their money for the day. It's hard to schedule to a day unless you're really in your regional area. You start knowing your housing stock and what the, what, what's under the slabs.
- [24:03]
A
Yep.
- [24:03]
B
Right. If they're all gravel and it's nice and easy, you could probably get to a point of two a day.
- [24:08]
C
If it's dirt, it's harder.
- [24:10]
B
If it's dirt or sand. Now you have to have other tools.
- [24:13]
A
Are there guys that have scaled large businesses only offering this service?
- [24:17]
B
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
- [24:18]
A
Like what's, what's the biggest out there? Like what, what kind of possibility we talking about here?
- [24:23]
B
There's. There's a radon company in the states that's in 10 or 20 states already.
- [24:28]
A
And what kind of rev are they doing? Any idea?
- [24:30]
B
I don't know.
- [24:31]
A
No idea?
- [24:31]
B
No. I don't know myself.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah, I always like to see, okay, hey, what in the market, who's doing it best.
- [24:37]
B
Yep.
- [24:38]
A
At least that is possible.
- [24:39]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [24:40]
A
And so, yeah, that would be interesting to, to find out. Who do you see adding this type of service to their product offering? Are you seeing guys that are just like only radon providers?
- [24:52]
B
Right now we're seeing just only radon providers, but I can see the future of what this is going to be.
- [24:57]
A
So this isn't currently being added on as like H VAC for electrical. None of this.
- [25:02]
B
A few guys. Right. Once in a while you see. But not, not like the big companies coming in and adding it as a service and that vertical you could add. I mean, you, those, those contractors have a database. The database is the gold mine. Right. So now you're not going to real estate transactions. Right now you're going to your database of people that love you. They've already dealt with you you're their own membership plans.
- [25:24]
C
Test for radon.
- [25:24]
B
You're testing for free or little to nothing.
- [25:26]
A
Right.
- [25:27]
B
And then now you have. We're here for your.
- [25:29]
A
Your yearly checkup on your system included. We're doing this radon test. Here you go. Interesting.
- [25:36]
C
And the upsell is like in the. For H VAC world, the IAQ system. Right now, the IQ system is a natural parallel offer to any new system.
- [25:44]
B
Yeah.
- [25:45]
C
Repair a place that you're putting in.
- [25:46]
B
Exactly.
- [25:47]
C
Radon is going to be. I mean, I believe it fully. I believe it fully. It's an easy upsell for the homeowner. The second piece is that the industry of radon is where the trades were in the 90s. It's a guy in a truck that doesn't know about the sales processes. He doesn't have sophisticated systems.
- [26:03]
A
He's the guy probably doing the labor.
- [26:05]
C
He's doing the labor. Selling it himself, Doing it all.
- [26:08]
B
Yeah.
- [26:08]
C
And so just what, I mean, just adding software, just adding sales systems, the SOPs. And the most important thing, which is the education for demand. The marketing play for this is going to be huge because all homeowners have a vested interest in keeping themselves safe and their family safe. And this is a way to do that.
- [26:28]
A
Levi, I need you to put this down behind the camera. And mark my words, we will own the largest radon provider in the United States. We will have 600 locations. Put it down.
- [26:39]
B
Nice.
- [26:42]
A
Sounds awesome. I'm all about education based marketing. Education based marketing is the easiest way to make. Make a crap ton of money.
- [26:50]
B
Yeah. So you've got regulation too, right? Some regulations.
- [26:54]
A
And states give me some regulation and an education and we feeling good.
- [26:58]
C
Isn't it true, Jeff, that in some states. I don't know in the, in the states, but in Canada, don't you have to. Like when we did the job together in. In New Brunswick.
- [27:07]
B
Most definitely.
- [27:08]
C
That was a requirement to mitigate new construction. We did it together.
- [27:12]
B
Talk about that. But yeah, great point, Trent. Yeah. In Canada, it's been in the national building code of Canada since 2010.
- [27:18]
A
Really?
- [27:18]
B
Since 2015.
- [27:19]
A
So it's not snake oil.
- [27:20]
B
It's not snake oil. Or we convince those guys too, I guess. Whatever might be. And there's states that require radon undergrounds, like rough ins. Right. So they got to put the pipes under the floor to collect it.
- [27:34]
A
Yeah.
- [27:34]
B
In Canada, next year we're going to be putting the pipe right up through the roof. Some states have that as well.
- [27:39]
A
So in a new construction, you'll rough it into the foundation. Where it's automatically getting. Getting piped out.
- [27:45]
B
Not piped out, but it's like a radon ready system. Right. So they'll put collector pipes under the slab.
- [27:50]
A
Got it.
- [27:50]
B
And a stub pipe with a cap.
- [27:52]
A
Okay.
- [27:52]
B
That's typically where they start instead of fixing radon.
- [27:54]
A
Okay.
- [27:55]
B
But then easier to connect to when the radon guy comes in.
- [27:57]
A
Okay. He comes in with the fan.
- [27:59]
B
Yeah. He doesn't have core drill now. He just comes on. Hooks on if it's done. Right.
- [28:02]
A
Okay.
- [28:03]
B
But that's an opportunity for a radon company as well. It's. They've been put in by plumbers.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah.
- [28:08]
B
In the. In the past that don't really understand or haven't been educated in radon so that they're not being put in 100. Right.
- [28:14]
A
So back to the process. When there is a slab and you have to drill through it, are you drilling only in one spot? You're drilling in multiple spots.
- [28:21]
B
We start with one. Right. We start with as. As least invasive work as possible. So we start with one 5 inch hole and then we have to drill little quarter inch holes in the other corners. Just quarter inch.
- [28:33]
C
Create the vacuum corner.
- [28:34]
A
Quarter inch corner of inside the home.
- [28:37]
B
Correct. Correct.
- [28:38]
A
So I'm pulling back carpet.
- [28:40]
B
That's easier. Yeah. Than the tile.
- [28:42]
A
Yeah. Tile.
- [28:43]
B
Tile. It's a quarter inch. So you go right in the grout line. You can do that. Be careful. Don't crack a tile. We do it sometimes and I'm just. I'm just drilling quarter inch hole down through the floor. We put a tube down below and then we're measuring the air pressure sub slab and we turn our fan on and it's called pressure field extension diagnostics. Now that's mandatory in Canada and it's not mandatory in the States.
- [29:05]
A
It's.
- [29:06]
B
It's like advanced radon mitigation in the states, but are basic in Canada. And that's really what I would love to teach the guys that are adding this. Because then you're coming in as the best of the best.
- [29:15]
A
What percentage of homeowners are pissed off when they learn what has to be done?
- [29:22]
B
Not that many. You know, really. You know, because we can explain it to them when we leave. You drill a little hole and you.
- [29:27]
A
What about my wood floor? What are you doing to my wood floor?
- [29:30]
B
Yeah. I'm gonna ask your wife where I could drill first. But we can go in a closet in. Behind a door. Right. And.
- [29:37]
A
But it's not the corner. But if it's not in the corner, like my corners, there's no closets.
- [29:40]
B
I know that. It doesn't have to be the corner. That's in a. In a perfect world. I'm testing in the corner. Okay, Right.
- [29:45]
A
But luckily, luckily, I. I'm not on a slab. I have a crawl space. So we're chill.
- [29:48]
B
Okay. Right, well.
- [29:50]
A
Or you're gonna have to go and put all kinds of plastic through.
- [29:53]
B
I am gonna have to put a real thick vapor barrier down, sealed right up, and suck under that. And that. That. That would be more money.
- [29:59]
A
It's way more expensive, which means more markup.
- [30:02]
B
More markup, more money, more profit.
- [30:04]
A
All right. We are only hitting crawl spaces. It's gonna be fantastic.
- [30:08]
B
I'm gonna come do yours first, and then we'll show you how to do it. I'll come to yours.
- [30:12]
A
All right. I love. I'm. I'm loving this. I'm loving this. So you said mapping radon off air. We talked about, like, one thing you're doing is you're going to try and find out where radon actually exists. How do I do that? As a business owner, where do I find out? The hot pockets?
- [30:28]
B
So there's some mapping that exists out there. Most people want to look at mapping to make sure their house is not in a level that's high.
- [30:34]
A
So it's like google.com backslash radon or something?
- [30:37]
B
Exactly. Google maps. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's a. There's an association.
- [30:40]
A
So there is an actual, like, worldwide map that you can say this is a hot spot.
- [30:45]
B
No, only. Only certain states have it. Certain states will have a good mapping and some don't have. Have any mapping at all.
- [30:52]
A
So if there. If there isn't mapping, it's just testing.
- [30:55]
B
Well, in the mapping, you shouldn't use the mapping where it says it's low. There's less than 9% of the population that have tested. So you're using mapping based on 9% information. Oh, you know what I mean?
- [31:07]
A
Oh, so. So this isn't. This is done by residential tests that have been done.
- [31:12]
B
Correct.
- [31:12]
A
Not like some, like, agency that knows where all the radon is.
- [31:17]
B
Well, they use that. And they also will use uranium deposits. Deposits. Okay, so it's a radon potential map. Like there's a good one in Canada. Radon potential map, but that's based on the uranium in the ground. So if it shows that it's low. Low chances. It doesn't mean there's no chance. It means there's low chance. So testing is the best way.
- [31:35]
A
I'm gonna see what Chad GBT has To say about our location.
- [31:38]
C
But this is like discovering America.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah.
- [31:41]
C
You know, it's like this is uncharted territory. Not that much testing. We're getting on a boat and going. But we know something's great on the other side.
- [31:47]
B
Exactly.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah.
- [31:48]
B
And I want to get back to what you. The question you asked about how do you get that? The. How do you know where the radon is? Right, right. Well, you as a contractor. Okay, so we're talking about contractors adding this as a vertical right now. Right. That's where my mindset is. Well, you have a database of clients. Test all their houses for free and find out where the radon is. Now you know. You know more than anyone else. So as a con, a radon contractor in Canada, I know where the higher levels of radon are, and then I can focus on those areas. So it's. You're creating your own demand, and it's outside of a real estate transaction. Right. So you can sell that value in those memberships.
- [32:23]
A
Got it. So I'm pulling up the old chat gbt here, and there's some in Washington. Yeah, so it's saying, you know, the. The u. S. Environmental protection agency, the epa says that the action needs to be taken at a 4.0 pico. What is that?
- [32:39]
B
Pico curies per liter.
- [32:41]
A
Pico curies per liter. Never heard that word in my life.
- [32:43]
B
No, for sure.
- [32:44]
A
All right. And it says, EPI also says there's no complete. There's no completely safe level of radon.
- [32:51]
B
That's correct.
- [32:52]
A
Okay.
- [32:52]
B
Zero is safe. It doesn't exist.
- [32:54]
A
Okay, got it, Got it. So you should fix it if it's between 2 and 4. And it says the average indoor radon concentration in the US is currently at 1.3. And outdoor air is typically 0.4.
- [33:08]
B
Exactly. There's no zero.
- [33:09]
A
Okay. So there's no zero. Some organizations suggest a lower threshold for action. So they actually, instead of saying that you need to take action at 4, they say all the way down to, like, 2.7 or whatnot.
- [33:21]
B
Yeah, 4 is the action level, but it's not a safe level. Right. So as you're approaching for, like, why not fix it? In Europe, they use a number lower. Like, that's why they're saying the two is the lower number. Some. Some countries in Europe will use that as their action level. In Canada, of course, we. We have to use a different measurement unit from you guys. So your four is equal to our 147. And we set our number at 200. So our number is even higher. Higher than yours, dude.
- [33:47]
C
Is there lifetime warranties on the fan?
- [33:50]
B
There's a five year warranty on the fan.
- [33:51]
C
Five year warranty?
- [33:52]
B
Yeah. Most, most of the good fans are five year warranty. You have to have a minimum of a three year warranty for it to be a radon.
- [33:59]
C
And what's the average lifespan of a good fan?
- [34:01]
B
We've seen some fans like anything that will last a long time now. We've been doing it for 10 years. So we have fans that are still running out there. Okay. Right. But we also see fans, the bearings go, whatever stuff happens with the mechanical.
- [34:13]
C
What's the replacement on the fan?
- [34:15]
B
The, the cost of the fan. There's a, there's a wide variety of fans. Right. So you can start from a hundred dollar fan. I'm talking about cost here. Not on the retail side. 100 fan to a 500 fan. Got it. And the reason I like the, the value sell is because I'm selling that 500 fan because I can adjust it.
- [34:31]
A
How many do it yourselfers are out there? They're like, yo, I got radon. I'm doing it myself.
- [34:36]
B
There's a few of those. Like they're everywhere. Right. So you're going to see some of those. But really when you're dealing with radioactive gas and is your wife really going to want you to you to fix the lung cancer in the house? You know what I mean?
- [34:46]
A
So. Right. Love it.
- [34:47]
B
And, and are you certified, sir? It creates more work for us because a lot of times when they do that, they actually increase the radon and because they're not sure what they're doing.
- [34:55]
C
Yeah.
- [34:56]
B
And then we got to go in and fix it.
- [34:57]
A
Are you familiar with the zones in the United States, like zone one? Well, it just says zone.
- [35:03]
B
Right.
- [35:03]
A
It says, it says Pasco, which is in Bennett County. The EPA map show a moderate potential for elevated radon. And this is parentheses. Zone two.
- [35:12]
B
Zone two. So what is. I'm not sure on that. That's, that's, that's the American side. And I don't know how, where they qualified those, but it's going to be in the mid range.
- [35:20]
A
So gang, Americans with their inches and gallons and miles.
- [35:25]
B
Miles. It's a different deal.
- [35:26]
A
You guys do inches and feet.
- [35:28]
B
Yeah, man.
- [35:28]
A
But then you do kilometers and pounds. Wow. How does that work?
- [35:32]
B
We're like hybrids.
- [35:33]
A
Oh yeah. Junior America, if you will.
- [35:37]
B
I don't know. Let's not go there now. Come on.
- [35:41]
A
You guys have less population than California.
- [35:44]
B
Yeah, that's true. But we got a lot bigger Country. It's true. A lot more radon. That's why I'm up there. So.
- [35:54]
A
Oh. So a red zone. So this is what I'm seeing. Red zone is the highest potential, and that's zone one.
- [36:02]
B
Okay.
- [36:02]
A
Okay. So zone two is the next highest, which is orange. And then you have a yellow zone, low potential. So here in the state of Washington.
- [36:10]
B
Very interesting. You're not very far from Canada, you know. Yeah, yeah.
- [36:12]
A
As we get closer, closer to the Canadian border, it gets redder.
- [36:16]
B
It does.
- [36:16]
A
Interesting.
- [36:17]
B
It does.
- [36:17]
A
Interesting. So there's more radon up in Canada than there is.
- [36:21]
B
Yeah. Canada is the third highest country in the world for uranium deposits.
- [36:25]
A
What are number one and two? No idea.
- [36:27]
B
Europe, I think.
- [36:29]
A
No big deal. Maybe.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I was not. I'm not marketing there.
- [36:32]
A
Oh, interesting. Yeah. So like, I mean, two hours from us up in like, like Spokane County, Stevens County Fair. I mean, these things are red. These things are red, dude. We're launching and. But also in the southwest, Vancouver. I mean, dude.
- [36:44]
B
Oh, Vancouver. Yeah. There's lots of bc, man.
- [36:46]
A
Yeah. No, no, other Vancouver. We have a Vancouver, Washington. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. But I. But I get it. So interesting, interesting. Yeah. Add those locations to the list. Levi.
- [36:57]
C
So how hard is it for a trade shop if they wanted to add this vertical? Like, what does somebody need to do in order to do it? Like, do you have to have trained technicians? Do they just have to be good at sales?
- [37:07]
B
Yeah, trained technicians, right. You need a certified, trained technician. My opinion in a, in, in. In a contractor, you know, if you're adding it as a vertical, you want to rate on champion. You want someone who's going to really take it and champion it because you're going to get into those tricky ones so that you need that guy having someone in your corner as well, like coaches, like next level pros.
- [37:25]
A
Let's go.
- [37:26]
B
Like Jeff. Jeff. Mickey LeBlanc. Right. We can help with that stuff. Right? It's not, not. It's not simple simple, but it's not that complicated. So this is a way to follow.
- [37:34]
A
You coach more on like the process and the product. Are you also coaching on like marketing and sales or just process and product?
- [37:40]
B
Mostly process and product. I have, I have the ideas on the marketing and sales based on what I've learned over the last nine years. But I, you know, I'm not competing with you guys.
- [37:48]
C
Yeah.
- [37:48]
A
Appreciate that.
- [37:49]
B
I'm here for a reason to learn.
- [37:51]
C
There we go.
- [37:52]
A
There we go. So you're the president of the association. How many members do you have in your association up there year.
- [37:57]
B
So we're about 300 members in Canada. So multiply that by 10.
- [38:01]
A
And would you say the average member. Is it a one man band doing a truck? Is it. I mean, how many of them are teams? Multiple of one or more than one?
- [38:11]
B
More than one. Yeah. I, I don't have the. All the stats, but most of them are that. That one guy that's so proprietary. Yeah, exactly. So he's a technician first. Right. And he may have been a plumber or an H VAC guy and heard about it and get in. Sometimes they still have their plumbing tools in the van because when radon's not busy.
- [38:27]
C
Right.
- [38:28]
B
Because they're not marketers. Right. They're not out there driving that business. And they tend to, they tend to rely on the marketing that's done by the lung associations and the people that are not trying to sell it. Just trying to educate or. And then they get the calls or.
- [38:41]
A
And what percentage do you think they're getting from like subcontracted work through like builders and that type of thing? Not a lot.
- [38:47]
B
Zero.
- [38:47]
A
Zero.
- [38:48]
B
Almost zero. In builders. Builders has been a hard. Well, if you're not a, if you're not a marketing person and a salesperson, it's hard to talk to a builder. They don't want to talk to you and all you're gonna do is increase their costs and they certainly don't want to hear that.
- [38:59]
A
What about referrals from like real estate transactions? Is that a lot of the business?
- [39:03]
B
That's where I think a lot of it is coming in the States for sure. Now at home, I have a builder that I put a radon system in every house he builds, like over and above fan and everything above code. We've done it for four or five years. But I'm also a marketer guy that goes out and goes after that. So, so there's a few of that. A few of those guys out there that's happening. But really the majority of the radon guys out there are, they're, they're waiting for the phone to ring instead of making it ring so much.
- [39:26]
A
I mean, this sounds like opportunity. This sounds like an exciting opportunity. One of, one of the few that I like can get revved up. Might have been one of my most, you know, I, I don't see, I don't see too many opportunities out there where I'm like, yo, yeah, yeah, that's my alley. And this one, make it 700 locations.
- [39:47]
B
And that revs me up, man. I, I love Talking about. I've been talking about radon for nine years. Yeah, right. Wherever I go, I'm. I'm teaching someone about radon. But to be able to get into a network like your network and have you say those words, I get goosebumps, man. Let's go. We're gonna reduce. We're gonna reduce lung cancer. Oh, dude. I'll.
- [40:05]
A
You do 15. I'll do 14 of it. You know, let's go.
- [40:09]
B
I'm okay. I just want you under my wing.
- [40:11]
A
That's. Hey, I love it. I love it, man. This is. This is exciting stuff. I think there's a. A huge opportunity for any contractor out there to look at adding this on. I think Jeff's a great resource. What's the best way to get a hold of you if someone's like, hey, I need to learn more about radon? I need to understand how to put this in my arsenal.
- [40:32]
B
What.
- [40:32]
A
How. How are they reaching out to you?
- [40:34]
B
Email is the best way. Okay, so, Jeff, J, F. I spell my name that way. The right J, E, F Normal at radon. And I have to spell radon because it gets spelled a whole bunch of different ways. It's easy. R, A D, O, N. Simple repair. R, E, P, A, I, R dot, CA Now I'm Canadian. Remember, there's no column there.
- [41:01]
A
Don't forget about putting in your house. All right, let's get it.
- [41:05]
B
Jeff@radonrepair.ca.
- [41:07]
A
Awesome. Awesome. Jeff Wool. It has been a pleasure to learn about this. Like, I mean, again, when even. I mean, Trent is a pretty good salesman, and he did a mediocre job. Like, tell it. Tell me about this. So, like, sitting down with you is just getting me fired up.
- [41:24]
B
Perfect, man. I love it. Well, you've got me fired up all week, so I appreciate having the opportunity to. To reciprocate.
- [41:29]
A
All right, thank you.
- [41:30]
B
Awesome. Thanks, guys.
- [41:31]
C
Thanks, Jeff.