← Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
Next Level Soul Podcast with Alex Ferrari
Ancient Spiritual Wisdom for Humanity's Great Awakening with Keshava Swami
01:21:02
Why does humanity feel more disconnected, anxious, and spiritually empty than ever before? In this profound conversation, Keshava Swami dives deep into illusion, ego, consciousness, the Bhagavad Gita, Kali Yuga, authenticity, spiritual awakening, and...
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- [00:00]
A
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C
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- [01:26]
C
Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consc, and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host, Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that truly matter. Why are we here? Where are we going? And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and our consciousness to the Next level? This is a space for transformation, a space for expansion. A space to remember who you really are. So take a deep breath, open your mind, and prepare to step into your Next Level Soul. Now, if you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the next level, explore Next Level Soul tv, our streaming platform filled with exclusive movies, docs, original shows, transformative series, and guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and deep spiritual teachings you won't find anywhere else. New content drops every week, helping you expand your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your journey Today at Next Level Soul tv. The views, opinions, and statements expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of Next Level Soul, its host, or. Or any of the companies they represent. Now let's dive into today's episode. I'd like to welcome to the show Kishaba Swami. How you doing, Swami?
- [02:59]
E
Hey, Alex, thanks so much for having us on. It's an honor.
- [03:03]
C
I appreciate you for coming on, my friend. I'm really, really looking forward to this conversation. I absolutely adore the work that you're doing in the world. I know you are trying to help awaken humanity with your teachings and bringing your teachings from the east over to the West. Very much like the gentleman sitting around my corner and many of the other. Many of the other gurus and saints that came over from the east with these profound wisdom. And you're doing it now. You're right now close to Harvard. You're doing some work with Harvard now as well, which is.
- [03:35]
E
So.
- [03:37]
C
It's wonderful, man. It's wonderful to have these kind of teachings becoming more and more mainstream as opposed to in the back of a bookstore somewhere in.
- [03:46]
A
In.
- [03:47]
D
In.
- [03:47]
C
In noho.
- [03:49]
E
Yeah, yeah. No, it's. It's great to be here with, like, kindred spirits and, you know, Alex, I feel like there's so many beautiful things in the world. Like, I don't see technology as a bad thing. I don't see, like, our social kind of changes in infrastructure as necessarily a bad thing. But what I do see is that if you don't accompany all of those advances with spiritual wisdom, then it becomes an imbalance.
- [04:19]
C
Absolutely. Absolutely. A tool is a tool, regardless. It's just a tool. A hammer could build or it can kill. It really depends on how you use it. So that's where that spiritual consciousness comes in, you know, like, maybe I should build with this tool as opposed to destroying with this tool. And I think I agree with you. 100. So I'm. I'm gonna go. I. I plan to go into the deep waters with you, my friend. So my first question is, when. What breaks first in a spiritual awakening? The ego or the illusion?
- [04:50]
E
Oh, that's amazing. What a beautiful question. You. You went straight into the deep end there, Alex.
- [04:54]
C
Oh, no, I. I don't. I don't play around, sir. That's what we do here. We don't dash around the top end. We don't play in the kiddie pool. We go deep. Let's go.
- [05:02]
E
Yeah. So in. So in Eastern philosophy, actually, there's a concept of Maya. And Maya means illusion. And it's interesting that Maya is not just something external, but Maya is also something which takes root within our own consciousness. And therefore, Maya or illusion has different strategic kind of places in which we create an aberration of reality. And so I think, in a sense, like, there's illusion which is outside, which is then projected onto us. I think there's an illusion within us by which that illusion, when we see through that illusion that's within us and we look outside, we see something that's not there. And so I think illusion actually works in both ways. And therefore, a lot of our spiritual practice is about refining the ego, purifying the ego. In the particular bhakti tradition I'm in, we're not trying to annihilate the ego. Ego is a sense of who I am. But there's a false ego and there's a true ego. So the false ego is, I'm Indian, I'm From London, I'm 6 foot 5 tall, I'm 45 years old. And those are all just temporary egos. When time takes away all of that, what's left? That's the real ego. And so I would say that we break the illusion within by removing the false ego. And we simultaneously, when we then see the world, we don't see illusory things because we're seeing through the true ego. And so I would. I guess my answer through. I'm just thinking it through with you. My answer would probably be that when we've purified our own ego of any sense of illusion, then when we look around, we can't be tricked by illusion anymore.
- [07:14]
C
I find it fascinating. Part of your answer was, I haven't heard it presented that way. Which is beautiful, that the ego or not the ego, but the illusion is projected onto us, which I found very interesting, which in the way I'm interpreting that is the programming of who we're born into, the country we born into, the parents were born into, the religion we're born into, you know, all of the societal stuff that. That is an. It's an illusion. This whole thing is an illusion. So why wouldn't our construct of how the world works also be an illusion? Because, you know, you obviously, you know, you were born Indian, you were born into your environment and to your religion and, you know, discovered your own path along the way. But that also, at a certain point, you said, no, no, no, this makes sense to me. I'm going to keep going, because there's many, many people who are born in one Like I was born Catholic, you know, I was born Roman Catholic, hardcore nuns and all. And that didn't for me on my path, it was beautiful because it explored, it introduced me to Christ, Christ consciousness introduced me to a higher power. But it didn't, the dogma didn't make sense to me. Where then I started to go much more towards the east and start following Eastern. Not following, but studying Eastern philosophies, all of them, from Confucianism to Hinduism to yogic philosophies, all of that, because it made more sense to me. So we're born into a construct and an illusion, but then we start to, if you start to seek, you start to find the path that works for you. Does that make sense?
- [08:44]
E
Yeah, 100%. You know, like I tell people, if someone tells a lie loud enough and long enough, that lie becomes a so called truth. But you know what, Alex? What's even more scary is if enough people accept that so called truth, it becomes a so called culture. But you know what's even more scary? If that culture perpetuates from one generation to the next, it becomes a so called tradition. And what's even more scary is then people are born into that so called tradition and they decide their goals, their aspirations, their desires, their what success is based on a tradition, based on the culture, based on the so called truth that's actually a lie. And I think for me like the spiritual journey is about interrogating those lies or those so called truths. And if I was like, like sometimes people say, what are you? I'm like, I'm a monk. And then I tell them, and I'm also a spiritual disruptor. Because the idea is that we have to disrupt the narrative and interrogate everything that we've accepted without questioning and say, is this really true or is it an illusion?
- [10:07]
C
But isn't it true that a lot of the great, the great masters who've walked, at least that I've studied, the majority of them always say, don't believe what I say. Question me, challenge me, push me, don't just accept it because I said it. Ring true to you and question the teachings, question the wisdom to see if it really works. That's a true teacher. In my eye, someone is like, he's not afraid to be challenged. He's not afraid to be pushed into, into, and, and to. Because that's how we grow. Even the teacher is still growing. If you're here, you're growing, right?
- [10:43]
E
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:44]
C
No, no.
- [10:45]
E
It's funny because as you're speaking, I'm thinking about the Bhagavad Gita. Like I'm here in Boston right now. So not far from here is Borden, where, like, you know, Tharoo and all those, like, you know. And then at Harvard, he had Emerson and all of them were reading the Bhagavad Gita. Now, the Bhagavad Gita is a fascinating book because Krishna speaks the whole Bhagavad Gita. And then right at the end, he looks at Arjuna, who's listening after giving him all this knowledge. And he basically says, can I say it in Sanskrit? Just very beautiful. Yeah, you know, you get a bit of the vibe. So he says this right at the end. So the English is. He says to Arjuna, now I've given you all this knowledge. I want you to think about it, reflect on it, challenge it, question it, and then do what you want to do.
- [11:54]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [11:57]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know, wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane, it spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, you give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin. Share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [12:36]
B
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- [13:40]
C
And now back to the show.
- [13:44]
E
And that's. And, and as you said, I think that's what a real teacher is. A real teacher is not telling you what to think. A real teacher is telling you how to think.
- [13:55]
C
You're absolutely right, my friend. It's, it's. It's amazing. You know, you were saying about challenging the truths you know, or the lies or the. Or the illusions. You know, the great illusion in the Catholic tradition is we're born with original sin, that we're not good enough, that we have no power in. And please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not sure if it's in the Hindu, but I know in the Indian, the caste system, that that whole caste system is absolute bs. It was a form of control of things. So it's throughout all the cultures. Not one culture is perfect. Everyone has their own little things. But it's to challenge that. So from my understanding, I'm not sure how versed you are in this, but the caste system, that is not something that is really looked upon the same way in India as it was before. And can you, for anybody who doesn't know what the caste system is, can you, can you quickly explain what the caste system is?
- [14:49]
E
Yeah. No, thank you. Yeah, so the caste system, there's an idea that. And what I would say is that there's a true version of stratification in the world, and then there's a kind of deviated version, which is what we have, the caste system. So I'll just do some groundwork and then we'll talk about those too. Alex, everyone's different, right? Some of us are podcasters, some of us are, you know, know, practical, like do some plumbing or. Some of us are computer programmers. You have academics. Everyone's of a different nature, and everyone is needed, right? So the idea is that in a society, there are different people who have different personalities who are all meant to bring something unique to the table and work together in a mood of respect and, and cooperation. Then society is beautiful. So there were said to be four basic personality types, what we call Brahmana, which is the teaching type, Kshatriya, which is the managerial, and the leadership type, Vaishya which is like an entrepreneurial mercantile type. And then Sudra, which basically means someone who's assisting and who's happy to assist the other three. What happened over time is that people started getting stratified into one of these based on which family they were born in. We didn't look at like what their personality is, what they want to do, what, what they have qualification for. We just looked at what is their birth. And then what happened is the system became more and more degraded with the teachers. The higher cost, so called higher costs were exploiting the lower costs. So you don't become a doctor just because your dad was a doctor. You got to go to school, you got to learn the thing and then you got it, then you're a doctor. So the idea of the caste system is everything became based on birth exploitation and trying to basically.
- [17:04]
C
Yeah.
- [17:04]
E
Just subjugate certain individuals. Whereas the original system was we're all different, let's respect each other, let's let people go wherever they're most, you know, natural and, and, and let's do something amazing together. So that, that's basically where it came from.
- [17:24]
C
So those were the two. So those were the. I've never heard it explained like that. Thank you so much for that. Because I've known of the other castes like the caste system, like the, was it the un Untouchables.
- [17:34]
E
Yeah. And then the cost. Yeah, that's another aspect. There's, there's like the untouchables who are like no cost and then they're like extricated from society. So yeah, all of that is a.
- [17:44]
C
Just by, by. Right. By being, by being born into the family that you're in. You know, which is the opposite. You know, here in the States where like it doesn't really truly. I mean. Yeah, it does, it helps when you're born into a rich family or, or something like that. But anyone really can come out of any, any castes or any level of society. If you're born poor, you could become rich. And you know, if you, if you're this, you could be that. So there's an opening to openness to that. That is very, very different. But it's so, but India doesn't look at the caste system. It's not taken as seriously as it was, you know. Yeah.
- [18:18]
E
Now thankfully, you know, there's greater knowledge, awareness and it's not, it's. But, but to be honest, Alex, you know, still, even in places it'. It's unfortunate, you know, what's here too.
- [18:33]
C
I mean the elitism of things like, you know, I have this house or I have this car, and you are nothing. And this. And that kind of.
- [18:39]
E
It's just.
- [18:39]
C
It's ego. It's all of that, but it needs to be broken down. Which, which brings me, Brings me to my next question. At 21, what did you see that made an ordinary life impossible to return to?
- [18:55]
E
Yeah, no, and I'm just going to interrogate your question a little bit before I. Please, that I would say, you know, when I think. You say when. When I. When I hear you say ordinary. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but sometimes people think if you get a job, if you have a family, if you go along the, the kind of normal path in the world, then that's in one sense, ordinary. And I don't think that's true. I think someone can, like, have the family, have the job, even be in the corporate world and be deeply spiritual and have a deeply dynamic life.
- [19:34]
C
Absolutely.
- [19:34]
E
And therefore, I don't think being a monk is walking in itself is going to say, like, now you're walking away from ordinary. You could be an ordinary monk, not a very spiritual monk. So it's all about consciousness. Right?
- [19:46]
C
Can I. Can I jump in for a second? I actually went to a monastery and the monk that was giving me a tour had a tremendous attitude, not very spiritual at all in this beautifully spiritual place. And I remember I was like, this is some in it. And then of course, you know, if you go into the. Into the Catholic religion, priests and nuns, some of them could be really nasty, Some of them could be very beautiful. So it doesn't really matter. I agree with you. When I said ordinary, the way I meant it is more of the illusion as opposed to a normal or. Because there is no ordinary path. I'm talking about the illusion of this, that you're like, oh, wait a minute, I can't. I can't go back into playing that part that I was playing in that avatar that I was playing in the video game. I understand the game now. What did you see? What happened?
- [20:35]
E
Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah. I think, see, like, Alex, I grew up in a family. I don't think, like, I was lacking anything. I was fortunate. I was surrounded by. Yeah. Success and, you know, two cars, two houses, two phones. Too much. And I saw people who had it all. And I was kind of like, it's the classic thing. You see people who have everything and are so empty. You know, like they say. They say we should. We should love people and use things. And nowadays we Use people. And we love things. And. And so from a young age, I had a doubt. You know, the doubt was there. And I was 21, and I just come out of university, and I was like, I need time to. Yeah, it's cliched as it sounds. Find yourself. Find myself. You know, and so someone told me a word. They said, you got to de provincialize yourself. I was like, what's de provincialize yourself? And he said, you've got to get out of the province. You got to get out of your normal environment. You got to get out of all these narratives and expectations. You need to get into a different space, and then you'll be able to hear something deeper in your heart. So that's what I did. I de provincialized myself. I went to India and I stayed there for six months. 21 years old, straight out of university. And what I found, Alex, in India, was the beauty of simplicity. You know, sometimes they say less is more. And I found that, you know, simple, living high thinking, that. That really started resonating with me. And. And I think I had a. I had a tendency towards simplicity and minimalism from a young age, so. So I lived with the monks. And like I was saying when we were talking about the caste system, that I think each one of us have a unique personality. And then I realized that I think my path is to try and share wisdom with people. And by sharing with others and teaching, I think I'm going to learn quite a lot as well. And so that's what I began doing. And. But, yeah, for me, just. Just the. The fact that so much but so little in the heart in terms of love and. And satisfaction. When I saw that in the world, I was like, I can't sign up to this. I just can't do it.
- [23:27]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [23:30]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane. It spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin. Share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [24:08]
B
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- [25:12]
C
And now back to the show.
- [25:16]
E
So it was a challenge. You know, you come back as a 21 year old and knock on my home and I'm like, mom, I'm going to become a monk. It's like, what are you talking about? You know, so there was a lot of tears, a lot of arguments and you know, every parent wants you to be successful, married and all that stuff. And I was just like, I can't. I have to be authentic.
- [25:41]
C
So yeah, God bless you for being brave enough to do that as a young man like that. You were wise beyond your years as a 21 year old. To really understand who you wanted to be and then go after it is pretty profound. Not most. I mean, at 21 I was just, I was still bumping around, trying to figure it out myself. And not that you had it all figured out at 21, but at least you knew the direction you wanted to walk, which is a scary thing because you went out completely outside the norm of, of the world that you came from. But I agree with you 100%. I think that if people, more people traveled outside of their bubbles, you know, when you go abroad, go to different countries, different cultures, you start seeing it, you start to realize that everyone is just everybody wants the same thing. Doesn't matter what language you speak. We all want love. We all want to take care of our families. We all want to have a roof over our head. We all want to be happy, to be loved. It's, it's every, every human being has to go through that. Every from. From a tribesman in the Africa somewhere or in the Amazon somewhere to a giant CEO of a giant company. Everyone wants the same thing. It's. It's beautiful. That's very, very beautiful. But let me ask you then, why do you feel that we are right now more connected than we've ever been, but yet we seem to be more spiritually empty because we're being not indoctrinated, but enticed by bombarded. That's the word. Bombarded by the material. But I, and listen, I, I mean I'm a little bit. We're. We're similar vintage, you and I. I'm a little bit older than you, but similar vintage. So I remember the, the gluttony of the 80s. You were younger, but the 80s was just like so much excess, so much excess. And now it seems like we're being bombarded with so much like, you have to have this, you have to have this thing, you have to have this. It's all stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff constantly. And you're not good enough if you don't look like this, you're not good enough if you don't own this, if you can't afford this, you're not good enough. Why do you think that we are in a grander macro sense, why are we being bombarded at this time of humanity being bombarded with this? Because it seems like to be ramping up the chaos of the bombardment of the materialism. And I think it might be the. This is my feeling. And please tell me what you think. I feel it's the last, the death grip of. Of it in many ways. Across all industries, across all areas of society. The old systems are trying to hold on and they're trying to get more intense for us to go, wait a minute, this isn't. We need to pull back. I think that's what's going on with humanity right now. What's your thoughts?
- [28:29]
E
Yeah, that's great. And just from that pulling back, let me. Well, I think it's like, I think technology, let's begin there. I think technology is a massive thing. Like we are now bombarded by all these messages, all these demands, communication demands, and there's no space to breathe, there's no space to think. I share with you. Decades ago they talked about Something called the theory of boredom. So people. What would happen decades ago is people would get bored, right? And when they were bored, there was nothing to do, right? And when there was nothing to do with, they were forced to stop and think about life, think about themselves, think about things. And they realized that boredom actually played a really important part in life because it's from boredom that thinking was actually activated. But if you notice now, Alex, we don't get bored. What happens is, as soon as you're bored, get one of these and you start scrolling. And therefore, what I think one of the major things in the world today is that people don't pull back because there's just something to constantly stimulate them. And when they're constantly stimulated, I think that capacity to question, the capacity to think, the capacity to interrogate is basically annihilated. And then what you have in the world is basically complicity and just complete. Like, yeah, people just follow along. So, like, for example, when I was in India, I was traveling. And so, you know, you kind of go to these idyllic places. So I was traveling by these mountains and there was this yogi sitting in a cave. I was like, my God, this guy's the real deal, you know? So I went up to him and it was like he didn't. He clearly didn't want to speak much, but I thought, I can't miss out on this opportunity. So I asked him, I said, can you give me one advice for my spiritual journey? And he said something that I try to follow to this day. Wow, it really helped me. He said, he looked at me, he said, every single year, disconnect for one month. Every single month, disconnect for one day. And every single day, disconnect for one hour. And then he looked at me and he was like, disconnect to connect. I looked at him, I was like, yo, you should be on TEDx, brother.
- [31:29]
C
That's the quickest TEDx talk I've ever heard. But it is awesome.
- [31:33]
E
So this point he was making of disconnecting, like when you disconnect and you go inside, then you emerge in the world as a different person. But I think people just don't disconnect anymore because they're constantly connected in.
- [31:51]
C
That's what the power of meditation comes in. That's the power of any spiritual practice. If it's even prayer, if it's meditation, if it's yoga, if it's even working out, if whatever it might be. But specifically meditation or prayer, when you are quiet speaking with prayer, you're speaking meditation. You're quieting. And I feel that when you meditate, that is that hour of, of quiet that you're looking for to disconnect. That's where a lot of my greatest ideas and downloads and everything that come in, come in through that time. But you're right. Right now we are. My kids talk to me. They're like, how was it growing up with only three channels on television? And I like, it's a horror story. And I'm like, you know, what happened if you weren't there on Saturday morning at 6 o' clock to start watching your cartoons? Guess what? There were no cartoons until next Saturday. They're like, oh, you know, it's, it's. It was a very different time. But I agree. I remember being bored. And when you were bored, you just go out and play. You would go do something. You would go, you would. Your brain is forced to do other things because your brain needs stimulation in one way, shape or form. So if it can't find stimulation, it will create its own internal looking in, questioning, thinking about life, like you said, you know, to really think and analyze things. It's fascinating. I want to get into the Gita for a second. Now, Gita is a very. The bagadalita is a powerful, powerful scripture, essentially, story that has survived thousands of years. Can you explain to people why something like that has that kind of. This book, this, these stories survived for thousands of years when most modern wisdom expires in months, if not days. You know, this has held the test of time, test of generations, test of so much. Why do you believe it is held so long and it's still talked about with such great fondness to this day?
- [34:04]
E
Yeah, great question. Yeah. Well, the Bhagavad Gita is said to contain something called tatva. That's a Sanskrit word, tatva, and literally what it means is a truth. But not just any kind of truth. A truth that stands in all times, places, circumstances, cultures. You know, it's just what we call an absolute truth. And I think we find a lot of relative truth in the world that's useful, but for a certain time, for a certain person, from a certain perspective. But when you find tattva, I think that is very, very special. So what I believe the Bhagavad Gita does is it gives you a blueprint of reality. Right.
- [34:56]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [34:59]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild but somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways, and Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane, it spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people, you just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin, share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [35:38]
B
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone off Ren's May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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C
And now back to the show.
- [36:46]
E
You you may have read Victor Frankl's book Man Search for Meaning. So yeah, I don't know how many of our viewers maybe they've read that book, but he basically explains the his survival in the concentration camps. And later on when he came out, he developed something called Logotherapy, and his main thing was everyone is looking for meaning, he said. We don't even look for pleasure or to avoid pain. He said if you have pleasure, but there's no meaning in the pleasure, that pleasure will depress you. And he said if you encounter pain, but there is meaning to it, you will not just accept the pain, you'll embrace it as part of your development. So it's a Very profound point that actually beyond pleasure and pain, what we're really interested in is meaning. So the Bhagavad Gita, what I say is it gives you the blueprint of reality, which then helps you to decipher meaning and just to say it, like, super quick. And we could do a whole podcast on this. But the Bhagavad Gita basically contains what we call five Tattvas, or five truths. The first one in Sanskrit is called Jiva, which is the soul. The second one is called Prakriti, which means the world. The third one is Karma, action and reaction. The fourth one is Kala, or time. And the fifth one is Ishvara, or the Supreme. So these are like the five points, right? The first one, Jiva, answers the question, who am I? The second one, Prakriti world, answers the question, where am I? The third one, Karma, answers the question, what am I meant to be doing here? The fourth one, kala, time, represents the question, how long am I here for? And the fifth one, Ishvara, the Supreme, answers the question, what's beyond this material realm? If you can answer those five questions, you can basically understand and decode any other question in the world. Who am I? Where am I? What am I meant to be doing here? How long am I here for? What's beyond this world? And that's why the Bhagavad Gita is such a powerful book, because it confronts the most fundamental questions that most people nowadays just kind of ignore. And I just like, well, whatever it is, I need some money, you know, so let me just get on with it. But they don't ask the big questions first.
- [39:48]
C
But, Swami, if. If the big questions that we're looking for, and Socrates was Socrates, example of Socrates, about the big questions, when we are basically programmed or lied to about what we need in life, what we have to chase, worrying about our basic necessities. It's really difficult to find inner peace when you can't pay the bill and you're going to be evicted, or I have no food and I'm super hungry and I can't. You know, some people go into fast, but that's another conversation. But if you're not used to it, I can't think about the big questions when I can't answer the little ones. So. And I think a lot of. I think this illusion that people have been sold over the years is that you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to do this. You have to chase that. You have to chase this. You have to Chase that. It kind of just muddies up the water so much that you can't ask those big questions. And Socrates said it well, because the Greeks in that time, well, they had, essentially, they had slaves and the slaves did all of that for them. So they had the time. I'm like, let me just sit and think deep thoughts, you know, like, philosophize about the nature of reality while the Spartans are like, great, I could just become the greatest warrior of all time because I have a slave system. So there's, There is that, but I think there's something bigger here that I'm curious to hear your thoughts about. I think we're heading into a world and it probably will happen in our lifetime where a lot of our basic needs will be covered by technology. AI, I see it, I see it so clear in the water. You could see it in the tea leaves, if you will. That AI, if done properly and consciously, which is the scary part for me, like, but if it's done right, it can take a lot of our basic needs away to the point where we're like, oh, I have time now to ask these big questions, to seek for these answers. What do you think about that?
- [41:56]
E
Yeah, well, Alex, when you speak, I get like, it's too many thoughts. You know, that's, that's the only bad thing about your speaking. You know, crack them all. Let me just go back and then I'll come back to Eyal. I think you made a brilliant point. There's the spiritual questioning and then there are the day to day necessities. And I think there's two misconceptions. One is that you need to ask the questions first, get them down and then do your material necessities. I'm not suggesting that. I think the other one is I need to get all my material necessities and once I'm secure, then I'm going to ask the questions. I think that's an illusion as well. I don't think these two things are sequential. I think they're meant to be an ongoing synergistic endeavor throughout one's life. Like, I don't think these questions, you, you, you completely answer them at any point. You're, you're continually unfolding and discovering them in deeper ways. So I would say, you know, we're not suggesting retire and be a philosopher and, and get it all down and then get back into the world. I think you can be in the world and be thinking about the world at the same time. And that's what I would propose. And then Coming to your question of AI, I love your framing, you know, because I think AI doesn't have to be a replacement for our intelligence, which I think it's big, fast becoming for many people. I think AI is actually an incredible tool which can free you up to actually exercise other parts of your intelligence that can lead you to, like, very beautiful places. So as long as AI doesn't. AI is actually, if we use it properly, it's meant to actually increase our intelligence because it frees us up from having to spend intelligence in otherwise monotonous things that don't require our attention.
- [44:06]
C
Right. It's something as simple as think. That example that comes to my mind is automatic payments. I'm old enough and I think you are too, that writing a check because the bill would come in the mail. You write a check, you put it in and then you would send it out. That was time, cognitive load, all of that stuff where now technology, you just click a box like you automatically pay the bill every month. And now I don't have to think about that. And that has freed me to do something else. It's just a small example. But that's a small example of technology taking something away from us. That would have taken time, energy and thought.
- [44:39]
E
Yeah, no, I think it's a great point. And as long as we just don't say, well, now I don't need to utilize that time, energy and thought, I'll just go and play a computer game or something instead. You know, like, then we say, like, what am I going to use my intelligence for?
- [44:56]
C
Like, let me ask you, in the Gita, is the battlefield in the Gita actually happening inside of us?
- [45:03]
E
Yeah, the battlefield. Beautiful. It's. It. The Gita is literal and it's metaphorical as well. And that's the beauty of this literature. It's a battle. It happened. I've been to the battlefield where it happened. Like, it's a profound place. And. But you are right, there's a battlefield within us. There's an Arjuna within us. There's a. There's a Krishna within us, a super consciousness, kind of like the charioteer guiding us, telling us what, you know, some people call it intuition or whatever, but there's a voice that's guiding us, you know, and so, yeah, the battlefield is within. The battlefield is in the. In the world today. It's a battlefield. And, and just to say one reason why I think the battlefield is a profound place, because it's not the first place you think of to have like a real deep conversation about life like on the battlefield. But what occurred to me is that on a battlefield, it's a very unique place because the ultimate and the immediate simultaneously come into focus. I'll explain what I mean. On a battlefield, you could die at any moment.
- [46:28]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [46:30]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know, Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways, and Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane, it spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org get a pin, share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [47:09]
B
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get grace great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone off rens May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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E
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And now back to the show.
- [48:16]
E
So that means the ultimate what happens beyond what's beyond that immediately starts playing on your mind on the battlefield. But on a battlefield, in one moment, everyone's going to start fighting and you need to know what to do. Therefore, the Media is really, really important as well. And that's what I think the genius of the Bhagavad Gita is and the genius of the battlefield. It's a place which teaches you how to function right now and how to, at the same time, while you're functioning right now, to always bear in mind what's the ultimate thing here. So the ultimate and the immediate, the battlefield brings both into focus. And I think when one lives a life in which we're focusing on the immediate and we're consciously aware of the ultimate, that is a powerful life.
- [49:16]
C
Beautifully said. Beautifully said. One thing I want to ask do. Are human beings suffering more from ignorance or from forgetness for forgetfulness?
- [49:27]
E
Wow. Yeah. You're going into like, the real. Yeah, I would say the ignorance is the forgetfulness. Like, who are we? You know? And that's where the Bhagavad Gita begins. Because Arjuna's like, I'm gonna die. Everyone's gonna die. And Krishna, the first thing Krishna says to Arjuna, but do you know who you are? You're not the body, you're not the mind. You are a spark of consciousness animating this frame. And you've forgotten. And because you've forgotten, you're in ignorance of your identity. And so, yeah, it's beautiful the way you've asked that question because sometimes people think spirituality means, like, I need to learn all these new things now. But actually all it is is remembering what you've known since eternity and to
- [50:38]
C
cut through all the mud, to cut through all the. The bs. All the stuff that you've been. I think they. Someone says this, but I say it all the time is like you, in the first seven years, you learn everything that they program you with, your program in the first seven years of your life, basically to who you are. And then you spend the rest of your life trying to deprogram yourself from all the stuff you learned in those first seven years. And there's a very deep truth to that. It is a very deep trut. Because it. By the time you're seven, you're. You are who you are.
- [51:08]
E
A lot.
- [51:09]
C
A lot of the basic programming is in, but then you've tried to try to release it all, try to deprogram yourself. It's crazy, isn't it?
- [51:18]
E
It's like one writer, he says, I can't remember who it is. He says, I'm not who I think I am. I'm not who you think I am. I'm who I think you think I am. It's like Our vision of ourselves is a projection of a projection. We've become so distanced from who we actually are because of all this, what programming, as you mentioned.
- [51:47]
C
So it's like a. It's an allegory of the cave with another allegory, Plato's cave, another Plato's cave, another Plato's cave.
- [51:53]
E
It's like a mirror within a mirror within a mirror. Like kind of, you know, that.
- [51:57]
C
So when consciousness or when these labels leave us, all this stuff, the label of you being who you are, me being who I am, and all the. All these illusions go away, what's left? What's left when you strip all this away? And this is a deep, scary question for people because it's essentially, who am I when I look in the mirror? Everything's gone. Who am I when I look in the mirror, when all of it's gone? That's. It's kind of terrifying for a lot of people. What's your. What do you think?
- [52:29]
E
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the Eastern teachers, they. They constantly remind us we are an indestructible spark of consciousness. And it's like. It's hard. Like, when you tell someone that is, like, what does that mean? Like. Like, what do I look like? What do I do all day? Like, people want to know something more tangible. But I think the Bhagavad Gita in the 15th chapter uses a beautiful analogy of a bunyan tree and says, imagine. Krishna says, imagine there's a bunyan tree and then there's a water. A waterbed, and then there's a reflection of the banyan tree. Krishna says, basically, this material world is like the reflection. And everything that you see in this world exists in its true form in the spiritual. In the spiritual dimension. So basically, who are we? In one sense, you could say we're pure consciousness. And if someone wanted to get a little more specific, we could say that just as you see, this world, we have relationships, we have bodies, we have personalities, we have. That actually goes on in the spiritual abode, but in a pure and perfect and beautiful way devoid of any. Yeah. Imperfection. So I'm kind of like, you're. I'm kind of like trying to give a little bit of a picture of it, but basically, yeah, when we strip away, away at all the material, we're spiritual beings. And as spiritual beings, we function in a beautiful spiritual world where there is everything that you see here, but in its pure, original form.
- [54:30]
C
So there must be some amazing concerts going on. Up. Up Heaven or on the other side, you know, the Lineup must be amazing.
- [54:38]
E
Yeah. I mean, Alex, if there was no music, if there was no dancing, if there was no laughter, if there was no love in the spiritual world, what would the spiritual world be?
- [54:51]
C
Avoid. Avoid. Essentially avoid.
- [54:54]
E
Yeah. So there are different philosophies, and what we find is there are philosophies which are what we call impersonal, which basically try to reduce reality to like an all pervading consciousness, but it's. We're all one and we're. Whereas there are philosophies, what we call as dualistic or bhakti philosophies, philosophies of love, where the spiritual perfection is not just an impersonal blob of oneness, but it's a beautiful world of dynamic exchange and activity, but in which everything is done in a purely spiritual and perfect way.
- [55:38]
C
Swami, I. I feel that I've said this often, but I. I feel like that this is an insane thing. Life. Life is insane. You're thrown in, no one's telling you anything. You just show up. I got these parents, you know, like, sometimes they're there, sometimes I've been abandoned. There's a thousand different scenarios, right? We're throwing it, and then we start to try to figure it out. Trying to figure this whole. Just our mind, our consciousness. We're just trying to figure out what we are, who we. Those five questions, what we are, who we are, why we're here, all of that stuff. And then we're taught by caretakers who have tried to do the same thing, but really don't have a complete, clear picture either. So then we're taught their misunderstandings or their. Whatever their understandings might be, and then we try to go figure it out for ourselves. This is an insane thing. All of us are trying to grab onto a story for us to. To make sense of this. All right? It's like we're just trying to. Just trying to figure this thing out. Everyone. Everyone. And we're just taking stimulation from everywhere. But, like. But if you're born in the Amazon right now into a tribe who doesn't see any of this, who doesn't understand any of this, who lives in that tribe, and they do the same thing, but their reality is very different than reality you and I live in. But they're still the exact same thing. They're trying to figure out, what is this jungle? Those are the animals that can kill me. These people seem to love me. This is how I get food. They're just trying to figure it out. And the story, like, you know, the story I'm going to hold on to is the. The sun God is. The sun comes up there. It's my God. I'm going to. Okay, it's just a story. We're all just trying to grab onto stories to make sense of this all. Does that make any sense?
- [57:31]
E
Yeah, we're looking. It's a beautiful point. Like, we're all looking for answers, and sometimes we're going to people who don't have the answers who are grappling with it themselves. And I think this is the point where we might want to introduce the concept of guru.
- [57:51]
C
Please. Because that is a very charged word nowadays.
- [57:54]
E
Yeah, that's a charged word. That's why.
- [57:57]
C
Please.
- [57:58]
E
I waited 50 minutes before I dropped the guru word. You know, just.
- [58:02]
C
Let's drop. Let's, let's. So with the guru. So the guru, coming from your point, your. Your lineage, the gurus is a completely different thing than what. It's kind of been bastardized here in the West.
- [58:14]
E
Yeah.
- [58:14]
C
And there have been Indian gurus who've come over who have bastardized it, taking advantage, created cults, all that kind of stuff.
- [58:22]
E
Yeah.
- [58:22]
B
So.
- [58:23]
C
But that happens in every, every culture, every religion. There's always, you know, the outsiders. But yes, let's. I'd love to hear your point of view on the, The. The today's guru. What is the purpose of the guru in today's.
- [58:37]
E
Yeah.
- [58:39]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [58:42]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane. It spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin, share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this is. Isn't happening.
- [59:21]
B
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself. Get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone off REN's May 20th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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- [60:25]
C
And now back to the show.
- [60:28]
E
Yeah, so like I talked to you about the Bhagavad Gita and this concept of TVA that there are truths and then the guru in Sanskrit is literally known as tattva darshi. And tattva darshi, darshan means to see. So tatva darshi means one who's basically seeing those truths, not just intellectually, but they have a, have a vision of a spiritual vision of the world. So yeah, the Bhagavad Gita and in many traditions is explained that to get the answers we need to find someone who's found those answers. And so what you'll find through the spiritual literatures is that characteristics are given like how do you know someone is a guru? How would, like if you came across a guru today, how would you, what would you do to be able to verify it? Like what's their, how do they walk, how do they talk? What are their characters? What are their qualities? Like, so a significant part of the Bhagavad Gita talks about the character of a self realized person. Okay? And so there are all these beautiful descriptions about a self realized person.
- [61:53]
C
And so Christ conscious, like Christ consciousness or like Yogananda or like, you know, many of the, the gurus, not gurus, but the masters who've walked in all
- [62:03]
E
in you Buddha, do they exhibit, they exhibit compassion, they exhibit, you know, tolerance, humility, all these things. So yeah, the spiritual journey really begins when we number one, begin questioning, right? But then number two, the next thing that needs to happen is you need to find someone who has some answers. Otherwise just questioning can lead you into an endless spiral of frustration. You know, so we need questions but Then we need answers. And I'll just add one thing here and then I'll let you come in. I think people, when they think of a guru, they think of someone who you unquestioningly follow and who you just invest your faith in and leave your intelligence behind. And I don't think that's how it's actually meant to be framed. I think a guru is someone who gives you answers in such a way that it stimulates your intelligence to ask more questions. Right. When you're around someone who gives you answers but then who helps you to ask higher grade questions, I think that's, that's a guru. And so, yeah, ask questions, find someone who has answers, but connect with someone who continues to stimulate you to ask more questions.
- [63:42]
C
I would love you to talk about discernment because it is a very under appreciated idea when it comes to the spiritual path. Because so many people are lost in the world and they, they grab onto anyone who goes, I, I know, I follow me, I got the answers. And, and then they're like, he must he dresses the part. Or she's dressing the part. She sounds right, she's saying the right things. Let me go over there. And I'm. And then they just give away their power. Where I think the discernment I think you've touched upon in the last answer we really need to make. You really have to think about it, about why am I following this person or what am I getting out of this relationship with this person in one way, shape or form. I'd love to hear your thoughts on discernment and what place it has in today's spiritual path.
- [64:37]
E
Yeah. Here's one definition of a guru. Someone who knows the way, someone who goes the way, and someone who can show the way. Right. That's one way to see it very simply. So I think discernment comes in asking those questions. Does this person know the way? That means ask questions. If a guru doesn't want you to ask them questions, I would be very suspicious.
- [65:12]
C
Or question you at all. Or question at all.
- [65:14]
E
Yeah, yeah. If there's no, if there's no exploration, I think that relationship is very, I think it's, yeah. The first thing is, yeah, does. Do they know the way? Discern that through asking questions. Do they go the way? It's not just about knowing the answers. Is this person living it? Are they showing up in the world in a way that reflects everything that's coming out of, you know, their mouth? And I think that's where someone has to observe and not jump in. But observe someone. How do they. How does this person interact? How do they face challenges? How do they interact with others? And then show the way, like, what are they able to give me? That practically changes my life. So, like, with a guru, you don't have to be like, all in. From day one. You can say, like, let me take a few of the things that the guru has given me, saying that this will be good for my life. Let me try it out and let me see if it's helping me. And I think, like, when you approach it like that, Alex is much more balanced and your. You're much more likely to connect with an authentic teacher.
- [66:37]
C
Beautiful.
- [66:38]
E
Because there is.
- [66:38]
C
And maybe I'm a little bit more sensitive to it because I get pitched all the time and I see all of these teachers, some quote unquote teachers and some who are true teachers, and we have a big filter on who we let on the show for that specific reason, because we know that people who come on the show, we try, we do the. We might not be batting a thousand, but we do the best we can, you know, with it. And. But it is something that's very on our mind to make sure we bring on people who are walking the walk, talking and can possibly help people is the end.
- [67:12]
E
And especially in the age we're living in, Alex, like. Because, like, anyone can start a YouTube channel, which is beautiful, but also dangerous
- [67:21]
C
at the same time.
- [67:22]
E
Exactly, exactly.
- [67:24]
C
It's. It's also dangerous at the same time. Now I wanted to kind of go into another area and I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. The world right now is going through such major changes, such upheaval, such chaos in many areas. A lot of these institutions, a lot of our systems are being challenged, are being. Are starting to crack, are starting to fall apart. People are not putting up with what they did put up with before, but it seems to be being ramped up from the political, from the religious institutions, from health care, from Hollywood, from like every. All these different, different education, all of these places. You're starting to see the crack. Their college is shutting down because people aren't signing up anymore. And they can't stay afloat, you know, because they just feel like that this doesn't make any sense for me to do so. There's a lot of this going on. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why humanity is going through this currently, right now. There's always been chaos throughout humanity's history. There's no doubt about that. But there seems to be an intense Intensification on all fronts right now. And we can see it. We could just feel it. We can see it. And there's more need for the spiritual teachings. The more spiritual awakenings are happening more and more every day. Our conversation right now wouldn't have happened 30 or 40 years ago in a public place that possibly millions of people could watch or even millions of people would be interested in. Not just the 20 people in the back of an occult bookstore somewhere, like, you know. You know what I mean? So it's fast. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you believe this is happening to humanity at this time. And do you agree that what I've said is happen, all this stuff?
- [69:05]
E
Yeah. That the structures are kind of being dismantled somewhat. Right. Well, in. In the Vedic, when I say Vedic means Eastern. The Sanskrit tradition, time is cyclical. It's not linear. So, like, you know, like in a year, you have spring and then summer and then autumn, then winter, and it comes back round. So in the Vedic concept of time, the cosmos also has seasons.
- [69:39]
C
The Yugas.
- [69:41]
E
You know about this, right?
- [69:42]
C
The Yugas, Yes.
- [69:43]
E
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So we're. Right now, we're in Kali Yuga, as you know. So that's the. It's almost like the winter of the cosmos, the dark season. And it's amazing because of all the qualities that could be used to describe Kali Yuga, one of the ones that comes up all the time is hypocrisy. It's the age of hypocrisy, which is an Interesting that. That. That one comes up so prominently.
- [70:17]
C
Yeah.
- [70:17]
E
And one of the reasons that I think people are rebelling against the structures is because they're seeing too much hypocrisy.
- [70:30]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [70:33]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane, it spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin. Share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
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C
And now back to the show.
- [72:20]
E
You know, like, politicians wanting all these policies, but then what are they doing in their private life? And then hospitals which say that, you know, we're, we're doing it for your good. But then what are all their finance policies to make it profitable for them? Or like the justice system which says, like, we're going to make the right decision, but then what are all the connections going on in the background between the people to make sure the decisions come out right? So I think people are like, there's a lot of hypocrisy out there. I don't know who I trust anymore. Do I trust the hospital? Do I trust the, you know, the government? Do I trust political systems?
- [73:00]
C
A church? Any of them?
- [73:01]
E
Yeah, a church. Even religion? Yeah. Like, we have to be honest, even religious people have abused the trust because of hypocrisy. Like, majorly, right? So I think the systems are coming down because systems only work where there is trust. But trust is being annihilated in the world. You know, therefore, therefore people who walk the talk are so important for the world because they, they reinstate trust. You know, like, like you just talked about Catholicism and I'm just writing a paper right now, a comparative paper between Hinduism and Christianity. And I'm comparing St. Francis with, with Sri Chaitanya who's another kind of figure within the Eastern tradition. And so yesterday I was just watching, there's this old video on the YouTube. It's called A Reluctant Saint, and it's all about St. Francis. And it was just so beautiful to hear about St. Francis. And he has this beautiful saying. He says, I preach every day. I preach seven days a week, 365 days a year. And now and again, I say something,
- [74:25]
C
wow, that's beautiful.
- [74:27]
E
Isn't that beautiful, Alex? Isn't that beautiful? Like your life is your message, like, even before you've said anything, people know, like, because of the way you live. And I think that's what the world needs. Not just people who are good orators, but people who share their philosophy and their way of life without even saying a word, just from the purity of how they act.
- [74:55]
C
Is that why people with authenticity is getting. Are getting much more attention than the fake people? I mean, I've. I come from Hollywood, so I, I understand that. And then I've also been in the YouTube game now for quite some time, so I've met a lot of the biggest YouTubers out there as well. And when I meet them, I sometimes I'm like, oh, that's who they are. I mean, that's why they're so popular, because they're just being who they are. And then you see others that you're just like, oh, they're playing a part. They're, they're. They're not coming at it from an authentic. And we can smell it. Now. Our, our authenticity meters are, you know, sensors are going through the roof right now. So is that why authenticity is the number one? Even in brands, even in companies we're trying to do marketing, they're just like, look, you know, the authentic brands, the people behind the brands are what people are being drawn to. Not the old Madison Avenue Mad Men marketing. That doesn't work anymore. Not for everybody. It works for some, but not for everybody.
- [76:02]
E
Yeah, people want. They, they want something real, you know. You know, in a world which is becoming increasingly artificial on all fronts. So, yeah, people are looking for a real story, a real, A real human being, a real heart. Actually. People want a heart.
- [76:21]
C
Is that. It's. It's also interesting that a lot of people are looking back at, you know, past decades with nostalgia, of course, but. But there was a level of authenticity back then that in the movies, in the storytelling, in the music, in the literature, it was just different. It was just so different than today. And even my kids, I watch them and they, they, they tend to go back towards the stuff in the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s, because that was. They're like, oh, that. You know, the people, the. The posters on their wall of one of my daughters. The posters on the wall are posters of heartthrobs from the 80s. And I'm like, you know that guy, 60, right? And she's like, I know. I don't. Don't break the illusion for me. I just. Like, today, I can't find these guys today. I can't. I can't. These guys were like, wow. I found that so fascinating.
- [77:17]
E
Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I. I mean, yeah. Without getting nostalgic about it, you know, there was. There was a beauty, isn't it, to that those older generations who weren't utilizing all these extra technologies or supports, and they were just. When they sang, they wrote the lyrics when they. When they showed up, it wasn't choreographed. It was like they were just being who they were. And. Yeah, something very beautiful in that. Human creativity. Yeah.
- [77:47]
C
Swami, do you believe that we are going through the greatest spiritual awakening humanity has ever seen in all of the cycles that we've gone through?
- [77:57]
E
Yeah, it's. I talked about the Kali Yuga, and it's interesting because one of the Vedic scriptures explains that within the Kali Yuga, there's a golden age. Almost, like, within this darkness, you know, like, you can imagine, like, there's this cold winter day, and then for, like, three hours in the middle of the day, there's just this amazing sun which comes out and bathes everything in, like, beauty. So it said, actually, that we're. We're. We're. We're beginning that mini golden age within a very dark time, actually. And so I think the signs are that there are. There are. People are looking. People are questioning. Even if you look at what goes viral on the Internet, a lot of it is very. It's. It's related to deep spiritual searching, actually, or kindness.
- [78:57]
C
Deep kindness. Beauty. I've seen that start to grow. I saw. The other day there was a marathon, I think it was at the Boston Marathon, actually, that there was a guy who literally just. His legs collapsed. He just could not physically go anymore. He's cramped up, and he was just done. But he was close to the finish line. And you just see these runners running by him while he's, like, flailing on the. On the. And then one guy stopped and car and grabbed them, and then another guy stopped. I get chills thinking about. And grabbed them and started to walk him towards the finish line. So he would Finish. That went viral because people are searching for that humanity again.
- [79:38]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want that humanity. Yeah. That kindness, that closeness. And we are social beings at the end of the day. Right. Like, we. Whatever you have, you can have success. You can have, you know, whatever it may be. But you need love, Right? And love me, as the Beatle says.
- [80:05]
C
As the Beatle said, all you need is.
- [80:06]
E
Yeah. Now, one of.
- [80:10]
C
One of your great influences is the swami who came over in the 60s, if I'm not mistaken. But. And please, I never get his name right.
- [80:20]
E
Yeah, Prabhupada.
- [80:21]
C
And he is.
- [80:24]
E
Yeah. And he came over right here in Boston, actually. He arrived in 1965. Yeah.
- [80:31]
C
And he. Yeah. And he was the originator of the Hare Krishna movement, which if you were growing up in the 70s and the 80s, I mean. I mean, it became a punch. First time, you believe it or not, the first time I would exposed to the Hare Krishnas was an airplane. Airplane. Chanting or non chanting section? Chanting, please. Because they became. They were. They were in the fabric of pop culture and the Zeitgeist. Can you really quickly tell the story of. Of him? And what an amazing story it is. And for everybody who's interested to go more on Next Level Soul tv, we actually have the documentary about his life, which I saw. I've seen that movie probably 10 times because I just. It's just such a beautiful spiritual story about. About a man who just decided to like, you know what? I think it's time. And he didn't do it when he was 21.
- [81:29]
E
Yeah, no, thanks for asking that. I mean, Prabhupada, he grew up in India in Calcutta. You know, Calcutta was an interesting time. British colonialism. It was the meeting of the east and West.
- [81:43]
C
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
- [81:46]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways. And Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane. It spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people. You just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin, share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [82:25]
B
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day, one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get grabbed great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone off Rens May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [82:57]
D
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- [83:29]
C
And now back to the show and
- [83:34]
E
when he was 22, he wasn't, you know, he wasn't particularly thinking of being like a spiritual teacher or anything, but when he was 22, he met his spiritual teacher and, and his spiritual teacher told him that the greatest need of the day is spiritual wisdom and you need to learn it and share it. And so he took that order, that inspiration and, but he couldn't do much because he was a family man. He was a pharmacist. So he was, he had, you know, he had children. But finally once his children grew up, it was 1965, he was already 69 years old. He thought, maybe I should do it now. It's better late than never. Let me now or never. So it's an incredible story. At 69, he boarded a ship. He had 40 rupees in his pocket and a few books. And he said, I'm going to go to America. He didn't really know anybody there, didn't know what he was going to do, but he thought, let me try. So he steps on this ship and in those days, to get from America, to get from India to America by ship took two months. So he's on this ship, it's a cargo ship, so there's no other passengers really. And on the ship he has two heart attacks, but somehow he survives. So it's 1965 the swami arrives in New York, right here, Boston, just 20 minutes from here, Commonwealth Pier. And he says, I got off the ship, I didn't know whether I should turn left or right. This is a swami, he's never been outside of India. He's 69 years old, he's just had two heart attacks. And he lands in America in the middle of the 60s,
- [85:50]
C
literally. In the middle of the 60s, literally,
- [85:53]
E
literally the Summer of Love, you know. And what he does is he basically goes to a New York park. And you can go to that park today, Tompkins Square Park. He sits underneath a tree and he starts chanting Hare Krishna, the Hare Krishna mantra. And people are just walking by, like, which planet did this guy arrive from? Like this, like. And people stop and they chant, they meditate with him. And then he gives a little speech about the Bhagavad Gita. People get interested. In 1966, he starts a temple in New York. The next year, some of his students say, why don't we try this in South San Francisco? It's all happening in Haight Ashbury. So then they start a temple in San Francisco and then one in Montreal. And then in 1969 they say, well, why don't we go to London? The Beatles are there. So then they go to London and George Harrison presses My sweet Lord with them. And then within the next decade, Hare Krishna basically goes to every single city in the world. 100 temples, thousands of followers, books, and a worldwide movement all started from a 69 year old man who had two heart attacks and shows up in New York and starts chanting underneath the tree with the belief that everyone's looking for the same thing as you mentioned.
- [87:38]
C
Yeah, it's, it's, it's such a beautiful story and, and everyone watching you should definitely check out that movie because it is such a beautiful, beautiful movie. It's, it's, it's shocking because during that time there were a lot of Indian gurus coming over. There was, it was like the heyday of that. I mean, Yogananda obviously came in the early part of the century. And before then there was another swami who came and left. Yogana was the first to stay. Yes, yeah, yeah, he came as well and start. So there was already the information, the, the wisdom was starting to make its way to the, to the west and needed to, and now the west is becoming, I'm not sure if we're, we're a little bit, hopefully a little bit wiser than we were before, but it's, it's, it's fascinating, my friend it really is fascinating. Where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?
- [88:37]
E
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, well, keshavaswami.com is kind of just a little bit of a website. Just tells a little bit about how I, how I arrived, where I am now. And then obviously on social media we have all the channels on Instagram, YouTube. Keshavaswamy. Yeah. And then we have an initiative called wisdom that breathes.com where we're trying to. Yeah. Just do a lot of conscious change making and, and, and amplify voices which are. Yeah. Putting the goodness out there and, and encouraging people to unlock their innate potential, spiritual potential. So, yeah, a few things there and would love to connect and, and thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing and, and you're just such a. Yeah. A blessing for the world and, and a great hope and, and just in conversing with you, although you've been humble enough to just ask the questions, mainly today, I'm sure we could equally do this podcast and I could ask you a lot of questions and I'm sure you have. Amazing.
- [89:52]
C
That is humbling, my friend. I appreciate it very, very much. I want to ask you before we go, what is your hope for your work in this lifetime, for the world?
- [90:05]
E
My spiritual teacher told me the goal of life is to touch as many hearts as you can. And when I wake up in the morning, that's what I think about. Like, I don't want to just educate people, I don't want to just empower people, but I want to try and conduct myself in a way that it touches people's hearts and maybe if their heart is touched, it will awaken more of their goodness and they'll touch someone else's heart. And so that's what I think about. And I'd say the last thing that, you know, sometimes I. We can become overwhelmed, as you said, by the world and the direction in which it's going. And sometimes we can think like, how am I going to change the world? But when I wake up, what I think to myself is, maybe I can't change the world, but maybe today I could change one person's world. And maybe if one person's world would be changed, it would mean the world to them. And maybe that will go on to mean something more. So, yeah, that's what I tried to do and I hope I can continue doing it. You.
- [91:22]
C
You said something real quick. I wanted to ask you people, you know, trying to figure out this, is this kind of crazy world that we're in right now. What advice do you have for people right now who are living in fear of the unknown, of what's happening around them? Because what they've known, the stories that they've indoctrinated in themselves about the nature of this reality, the nature of the world, foundations are starting to crack around them, and they see it and they're terrified. What advice do you have for them?
- [91:53]
E
I think we have to develop the capacity to always zoom out and then zoom back in. Zooming in and out, I think is a great art of life. And I think fear, failure, whatever it may be, becomes overwhelming when we don't have the capacity to zoom out and then zoom back in again. And that's what I actually see. Your podcast and all the spiritual content in the world and all these scriptures and all these sage. What they're basically doing is they're not necessarily providing you a solution to change everything, but what they are doing is equipping you with the capacity to zoom out. And then when you zoom back in and you look at everything, everything begins to look very different. Not because it's changed, but because you now have perspective.
- [92:52]
C
Beautifully, Beautifully said, my friend. Thank you again so much for being here on the show. It's been a real, truly pleasure and honor. I hope that we can get down to Austin to do another conversation in person, my friend. I appreciate you and everything you're doing to awaken this planet, my friend. So thank you.
- [93:08]
E
Thank you, Alex. All the best.
- [93:12]
C
Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the show notes for this episode at next levelsoul.com forward/691 and if your soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into Next Level Soul tv, our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings. It's a space created to support your awakening, your healing, and your return to the truth of who you really are. Begin your journey at Next Level Soul tv. Until next time, keep explaining, expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking your path towards the next level of your soul.
- [94:05]
A
Here's a thought that shouldn't be controversial. You can think someone is completely wrong and still not hate them. I know. Wild. But somehow we've turned disagreement into a personality and hate into something people are way too comfortable comfortable with. And it's not just happening in one place. Hate is rising across communities in different ways, and Jewish communities are getting hit especially hard right now. And hate doesn't just stay in one lane, it spreads. So even if you think this isn't your issue, give it a minute. You don't have to agree with people, you just have to decide you're not okay with hate. That's it. The blue square is a simple way to say that out loud. Go to bluesquarealliance.org, get a pin, share it or don't, but at least don't pretend this isn't happening.
- [94:44]
B
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese, Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone off REN's 5-20-26 restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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