Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: 2026 Starts NOW: California Governor Candidate Debate – Steve Hilton vs. Stephen Klubeck

Date: November 4, 2025

Overview

This episode marks the debut of Next Up’s new, in-depth debate format, aiming to give voters a more authentic, substantive look at candidates for public office. Mark Halperin moderates a direct, open dialogue between two political outsiders vying to succeed Gavin Newsom as California governor in 2026: Democrat Stephen Klubeck, a self-made billionaire in hospitality, and Republican Steve Hilton, former Fox News host and longtime business leader. The conversation spans pressing issues—from the state economy and energy policy to education, crime, transportation, and leadership style—showcasing candid differences, points of agreement, and visions for California’s future.

Episode Highlights & Key Moments

1. Debate Format & Purpose

• [02:00–12:45]
  • Mark Halperin introduces a new debate approach, focusing on real-time engagement, direct candidate interaction, and minimal moderator involvement:

    “This is the kind of format I’ve long advocated. Just two candidates running for the same job, directly engaging with each other, addressing the issues that matter most… This is about ideas. It should be informative.” — Mark Halperin (07:15)

2. Candidate Introductions

• [12:45–13:25]
  • Klubeck: Chicago-born, raised in California, successful entrepreneur
  • Hilton: Immigrated from the UK, business background, media career
  • Both: Political outsiders aiming to disrupt the status quo

3. California Economy: What’s Working and What’s Broken?

• [14:23–19:09]

  • Klubeck:

    • Feels current California falls short of its innovative heritage
    • Criticizes execution, accountability, surging poverty, and homelessness

    “This is not the California I grew up in… we’re number one in poverty, we’re number one in homelessness. We don’t execute properly.” — Stephen Klubeck (14:28)

    • Identifies himself as an "old school, blue dog Democrat"
    • Sees voters hungry for a “hard center” alternative

  • Hilton:

    • Praises California’s world-beating entrepreneurs, but blames state government for hostile conditions

    “What’s going right in the California economy is everything that’s nothing to do with the government.” (17:24)

    • Points to high unemployment/poverty rates, and cites Nvidia’s expansion elsewhere as evidence of business flight
    • Blames excessive regulation, union power, litigation environment, and climate ideology for driving up costs and stagnating job growth

4. Energy Policy & Tech (Natural Gas, Nuclear, Renewables)

• [24:12–31:00]

  • Hilton:

    • Wants to end “climate ideology”: cut wind/solar subsidies, increase natural gas use as a bridge to more nuclear power, utilize existing gas plants at higher capacity

    “We have a fleet of gas fired power stations... currently running at about 10–15% of their capacity as a deliberate choice... We have abundant reserves of natural gas...90% of it is imported, which is completely insane.” (25:07)

    • Focus: Revive blue-collar sectors, not just tech, by lowering energy costs and cutting red tape.

  • Klubeck:

    • Supports fourth-generation nuclear power (Gen 4) as long-term solution
    • Also advocates using natural gas and exploiting lithium reserves in California

    “I’m a big Nuke Gen 4 guy... I don’t believe in mandates, Steve. We’re over-regulated, we’re overlawed.” (28:41, 29:48)

    • Calls for pivoting aspirationally, not via regulatory fiat

  • Moderator summary: Both support more short-term natural gas and nuclear investment, less regulation.

5. Regulation, Government Reform, and Disruption

• [31:00–34:14]
  • Both candidates cite state bureaucracy as a major barrier
  • Hilton: “The power to actually make all this happen... is through the control of the executive branch... you can really redirect [regulatory] agencies by appointment.” (30:43)
  • Klubeck: Wants “teaching, coaching, counseling” the legislature and bureaucracy, building trust for disruptive change

6. Insurance Market Crisis and Proposals

• [34:14–41:01]
  • Both see a dysfunctional, overregulated insurance sector (auto, property, homeowners)
  • Klubeck:

    “The insurers have pulled out... because they can’t price a product... there’s a financial fix where we insulate...take our Fair Plan concept, [use] a captive, and insulate the last loss... we will have more insurers coming into the state.” (35:51, 38:50)

    • Would like insurance and education commissioner positions to be appointed rather than elected
  • Hilton:
    • Blames Prop 103’s regulatory structure and elected insurance commissioner for market failures, supports less regulation and incorporation of future risk/reinsurance

    “It’s massively overregulated.” (38:46)

7. Transportation & Infrastructure

• [43:16–55:11]

  • Both candidates agree California’s high-speed rail project is a costly failure

  • Klubeck:

    • Supports exploring high-speed rail (with international bidders, if it’s cost-effective); wants expanded light rail between San Francisco and Los Angeles
    • Advocates pausing/overhauling CEQA and other regulatory impediments
    • Suggests “double decker” expressways (from Santa Monica to Downtown LA)

    “CEQA is a highly regulated... biggest impediment to get anything built.” (45:21)

  • Hilton:

    • Strongly opposes new rail spending; prefers adding lanes to major highways (like 99 and 5), facilitating trucking and local commutes

    “California developed outwards...low rise, single family homes... transportation policy needs to reflect that reality.” (50:14)

    • Criticizes an “ideology” of getting people out of cars

8. Education Reform

• [55:12–60:48]

  • Klubeck:

    • Wants to guarantee every graduate is “ready for the real world”—mandate curriculum on civics, financial literacy, basic life skills

    “Teach them civics... Give them the immigration test of the United States... Work it back.” (55:47, 56:04)

    • Supports a new statewide curriculum

  • Hilton:

    • Focus on basics: reading, math, transparency on school/teacher performance
    • Would publish simple letter grades for schools and teachers
    • Advocates “breaking the public school monopoly” by making charters more accessible, doubling proportion of charter schools; wants full parental choice eventually

    “The first stage: publish the information. Second stage: actually start to put power back in parents' hands to make changes.” (58:51)

  • Both see the teachers union as a key obstacle, differ on approach (Klubeck stresses trust-building and collaboration, Hilton calls for a “meritocracy” and more direct confrontation)

9. Crime, Prisons, and Criminal Justice

• [65:23–72:00]

  • Klubeck:

    • "Woke is weak"—calls for restoration of “rule of law,” lowering felony theft threshold from $950 to zero

    “Woke is weak. And we need brass balls. We need leadership... we don't steal, but at the same time, we have warmth and compassion...” (66:07)

    • Acknowledges need for bespoke review of parole and sentences, supports rehabilitation

  • Hilton:

    • Would reverse state-level prison closures, increase capacity
    • Blames “decarceration” and “catch and release” for violent repeat criminality; sees prison capacity as key to both punishment and rehabilitation

    “Tens of thousands of dangerous, violent criminals have been released... All of that is the consequence of the prison closure program.” (67:13)

    • Points to Virginia as a national model for low recidivism

10. Immigration, the National Guard, and Federal-State Relations

• [72:00–79:07]
  • Both candidates reject “resistance for its own sake” in dealing with Washington
  • Emphasize the need for collaborative, practical working relationships regardless of president—highlighting likely Trump administration in 2025–27
  • Both support legal immigration, enforcement of laws, clear paths to citizenship for law-abiding, long-term immigrants
  • Klubeck: “Biden... did an absolutely horrific job... Immigration needs to be done in a sane, humane way.” (73:13)
  • Hilton: “I think the problem is this attitude of resistance... It's entirely political, this attitude of resistance, your word. And you're completely right to use it. And it is causing the kind of confrontation and chaos in immigrant communities..." (78:02)

11. Leadership, California’s Legacy, and the Mood for Outsiders

• [79:07–90:50]
  • Halperin asks both to identify the last “great” governor and what they’d emulate
    • Klubeck: Pat Brown for infrastructure & innovation, Reagan for leadership

    “Steve and I should not be doing this. So that tells you: there’s no succession in the state.” (80:01)

    • Hilton: Praises Arnold Schwarzenegger, Pete Wilson, Reagan, Pat Brown; admires Brown’s “can-do spirit” for building the highways and university system
  • Both bemoan the lack of direct, substantive conversations in today’s campaign media

Notable Quotes

• “What’s working right in the California economy is everything that’s nothing to do with the government.”
  — Steve Hilton (17:24)

• “We don’t execute properly. We don’t account for where our money is... I argue within my own party. I think it’s lost its way.”
  — Stephen Klubeck (14:28)

• “Woke is weak. And we need brass balls. We need leadership. Look, we have laws. We have rule of law.”
  — Stephen Klubeck (66:07)

• “You have to teach, coach and counsel those in Sacramento and the Senate and the Assembly.”
  — Stephen Klubeck (34:04)

• “The real point… is the industries that I really want to help in California are not tech, which can pretty much look after itself… it’s actually the industries that create blue collar jobs.”
  — Steve Hilton (27:13)

• “You both believe there needs to be fundamental changes in how the availability and cost of different kinds of insurance [are handled].”
  — Mark Halperin (36:13)

• “On insurance, highest costs in the country... On homeowners, the issue is less the cost, but availability.”
  — Steve Hilton (34:47)

• “The first stage, publish the information. Second stage, actually start to put power back in parents’ hands to make changes... I think we should end the government school monopoly.”
  — Steve Hilton (58:51, 59:39)

• “We want our children to survive and thrive here. We want everyone to do well. We know it’s broken. Everyone acknowledges it’s broken, but what’s everyone going to do about it?”
  — Stephen Klubeck (85:40)

Timestamps: Key Segments

• Debate format, philosophy: [02:00–12:45]
• Candidate intros: [12:45–14:23]
• Economy and regulatory barriers: [14:23–19:09]
• Energy policy debate: [24:12–31:00]
• Insurance regulatory crisis: [34:14–41:01]
• Transportation (roads, rail, regulation): [43:16–55:11]
• Education reform: [55:12–60:48]
• Crime/prison policy: [65:23–72:00]
• Immigration and federal relations: [72:00–79:07]
• Leadership legacy, outsider mood: [79:07–90:50]

Tone & Chemistry

• The conversation is candid, sometimes combative, but fundamentally cordial and respectful.
• Both candidates, though from different parties, repeatedly find common ground—on deregulation, the need for disruption, and their centrist critiques of their own parties.
• Mark Halperin’s moderation is light-touch but insistent on specifics, often pushing for actionable policy ideas.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides an unusually in-depth, direct look at two major-party outsiders seeking to redirect California’s future. Both agree: the state is at a crossroads, with massive opportunity if leadership, regulation, and execution improve. The “hard center” and practical solutions take center stage, and the debate’s experimental format—long-form, open, and respectful—offers a striking contrast to standard, soundbite-laden candidate events.

For listeners seeking to understand California's political crossroads, this episode is both comprehensive and revealing—highlighting where the substance divides and unites two very different visions for the state’s next chapter.