Podcast Summary: Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: “Dem Uniters and Dividers Shape the Party's Future, Dominant Media Hypocrisy, Lessons Kamala Missed”

Host: Mark Halperin (MK Media)
Date: September 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode examines the deepening divide within the Democratic Party as it looks ahead to 2028—between those espousing unity (“uniters”) and those seeking to energize the base through opposition (“dividers”), especially in the post-Trump and post-Kirk-assassination climate. Host Mark Halperin delivers a wide-ranging monologue, followed by candid, insightful discussions with conservative commentator Larry O’Connor and Democratic strategist Patty Solis Doyle. The episode also scrutinizes the media's handling of political violence, free speech, and recent political events, including Kamala Harris’s controversial memoir.

Key Segments & Timestamps

• [00:58]—[23:10]: Monologue: Democratic Party’s Crossroads; the Uniter/Divider Dilemma
• [30:30]—[62:31]: Interview: Larry O’Connor on polarization, media bias, and understanding “the other side”
• [65:03]—[94:48]: Interview: Patty Solis Doyle on grief, empathy, party future, Kamala’s book, and electoral process

Main Discussion Points

1. The Democratic Party: “Uniters” vs “Dividers”

(Monologue, 00:58–23:10)

• America’s Mood & Polarization:
  Mark Halperin opens with reflections on the state of American politics after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, noting that both parties remain sharply divided. Polls show 79% of Americans see a “political crisis,” with Democrats (93%) especially concerned.

• The Democratic Dilemma:
  Two broad Democratic camps:

  • Dividers: Run on strong anti-Trump rhetoric, energize the activist base (e.g., AOC, Newsom’s recent appeals).
  • Uniters: Argue for bridging divides, echoing Clinton/Obama/Biden’s tradition (“I gotta get everybody possible who might vote for me to consider...”). Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Beshear identified as this type, though this approach seems less popular now.

• Historical Perspective:
  “Clinton, Bush, and Obama—all said they would unify the country... and yet didn't happen.” (B, 05:25)

• Media’s Role:
  Examines the media as both reflecting and deepening these divisions—susceptible to both selective outrage and double standards, especially in the aftermath of political violence.

2. The Allure and Peril of “Dividers” in Modern Democratic Politics

(Monologue, 11:35–23:10)

• Anti-Trump Energy:
  “The allure... is to be as anti-MAGA, anti-Trump as you can be. And the danger... is that’s not what’s going to win the general election.” (B, 24:40)

• Distinctive Uniters vs Dividers:

  • Uniters: More moderate, donor-class favorites (e.g., Rahm Emanuel struggles to “pick his way through” that lane).
  • Dividers: Emphasize “fighting,” like AOC, Governor Pritzker, and, increasingly, Newsom and Buttigieg—originally seen as moderates, but adapting to party pressures.

• Media & Messaging:
  Notable campaign ad featuring AOC: “That is left-wing populism. That is anti-Trump. That's about fighting.” (B, 16:09)

3. Media, Hypocrisy & Double Standards

(Larry O’Connor Interview, 30:30–62:31)

• Charlie Kirk’s Assassination as Inflection Point:
  “After decades of division... the assassination of Charlie Kirk has taken us to a different, more fraught, darker place.” (B, 32:04)

• Misunderstanding at the Core:
  O’Connor laments a lack of basic empathy or understanding between right and left:

  “I really think the left... truly don’t understand me. They truly don’t understand the people in our movement.” (A, 32:28)
  “If they don't understand me, it makes it that much easier to put a bullet in my head.” (A, 34:45)

• Media Fairness:
  — Coverage of left-wing violence vs right-wing violence is strikingly asymmetrical.
  — Notable quote:

  “CNN will routinely talk to its audience about right-wing violence as a standalone... all left-wing violence must be taken with a heavy dose of ‘both sides do it’...” (Eric Erickson via B, 35:32)

• High-profile Cases as Illustrations:

  • Indictment coverage of Jim Comey vs Trump (B, 41:02):

    “The double standard, that double standard of saying, ’Oh, it’s fine to indict Donald Trump for political purposes, but it'd be horrible to indict Jim Comey…' That's another one.”

  • Historical reference: Clinton blaming talk radio for Oklahoma City (A, 51:23):

    “I'm old enough to remember Bill Clinton blaming Rush Limbaugh for the Oklahoma City bombing... We've been living with this for decades.”

• Free Speech & Cancel Culture:
  Discussion about Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension:

  “Kimmel himself was delighted for conservatives to be canceled. All these media reporters... were delighted when it was being done. And they came up with the funny name—Cancel Consequence.” (B, 48:14)

• Conservative Media Rising:

  “There is a hunger for media that cuts across the grain... Our numbers are exploding, and all those other business models... are failing.” (A, 56:09)

• Call for Empathy:

  “Try to understand how people on the right feel... Even though people on the right don't like it, I know you're grieving, but understand this is an opportunity to get what you say you want. You don’t want constant combat. You want fairness, you want things to be different.” (B, 58:37)

4. Democratic Perspective & Self-Reflection

(Patty Solis Doyle Interview, 65:03–94:48)

• Reaction to Kirk Assassination:
  — Patty Solis Doyle, despite deep disagreement with Kirk, feels genuine grief:

  "Even I'm guilty of this... I hear things that I vehemently disagree with and I say, man, I hate these guys. The truth is I don't hate them... I guess the impact it made on me is I'm going to try and do more of that.” (C, 65:45)

  — She emphasizes the tragedy of violence over ideas and hopes it prompts real soul-searching in America:

  “The hallmark of this country is to be able to disagree... violence, murder, assassination based on political ideology is just... tragic.” (C, 67:45)

• Memorializing Kirk & Reconciliation:
  Praises Erica Kirk’s “compelling and powerful” remarks (C, 69:01); expresses desire for both sides to do better.

• Kamala Harris’s Memoir—Missed Opportunity and Party Tensions:

  “I'm kind of puzzled by it too... I think it would have been a much better book... if it were much more a look at why, how Democrats lost Middle America and why.” (C, 71:49)
  Critiques Harris for pettiness and for failing to focus on unifying themes or genuine introspection.

• Biden/Harris Relationship:

  “I saw a Biden White House that... went the extra mile, much more respectful of her place… compared to the other [White House/VP] relationships I named.” (B, 77:09)

5. 2028 Democratic Primary Prospects & Process

(Patty Solis Doyle Interview, 78:53–88:55)

• Gavin Newsom & AOC:
  — Newsom seen as current “front-runner” due to aggressive anti-Trump posture and media acumen, but still room for more moderate, “uniter” types to emerge.
  — AOC considered top-tier by virtue of “persona” and fundraising, but skepticism abounds on her general election viability.

• Primary Calendar Importance:
  Doyle reiterates how early-voting state selection remains crucial, referencing her experience with Clinton in 2008.

  “I could go on for days... about how detrimental Iowa being first was for Hillary in 2008.” (C, 85:15)
  Advocates for change, like Michigan or Nevada going first, but underscores unique voter engagement found in Iowa/NH.

6. Empathy, Civic Engagement & the Path Forward

(Ending Segment, 93:44–94:48)

• Message to Young People After Kirk’s Assassination:

  “Continue to advocate and fight for what you care about... But don't do it in a... hatred way. I think young people... are gonna move this country forward... I want them to continue to be engaged, and I don't want them turned off, but I do want them to stop and reflect.” (C, 93:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Uniter/Divider Split
  “What you have now in the Democratic Party is a couple of realities... the party is far to the left of where it was when Bill Clinton ran... For 10 years the party has been defined as oppositional to Donald Trump and hasn’t figured out why does Donald Trump do well?”
  — Mark Halperin, [08:50]

• On Media Double Standards
  “If the equivalent of Charlie Kirk... who was a Democrat... had been assassinated... the coverage... would be that the right killed the person... Whenever it’s left-wing, the dominant media just tries not to cover it. They just say, oh, it’s one crazy person, or, we need gun control.”
  — Mark Halperin, [35:32]

• On Conservative Misunderstood
  "The people on the political left in this country truly don’t understand me. They truly don’t understand the people in our movement... if they don't understand me, it makes it that much easier to put a bullet in my head."
  — Larry O’Connor, [32:42–34:45]

• On the Limits of Fighting
  “If the long game is to win the White House… then the goal is to not just be someone who divides and revs up the base. You got to do that… But the danger… is if the contest is to be as far to the left, angry, not thinking about how to win over Trump voters... Republicans are delighted with that.”
  — Mark Halperin, [24:40]

• On Kamala’s Book
  “It just seemed really petty... [The Bidens] calling her before the debate... Again, a little bit petty. We want to move on. I thought she had very good ideas when she ran. I would have loved a focus on that.”
  — Patty Solis Doyle, [73:14]

• On Political Engagement After Tragedy
  “Young people... are gonna move this country forward... I want them to continue to be engaged, and I don't want them turned off, but I do want them to stop and reflect.”
  — Patty Solis Doyle, [93:53]

Key Takeaways

• The Democratic Party is facing a fundamental challenge over how to win not just intra-party contests, but the nation—uniting vs dividing strategies remain unresolved and perhaps unresolvable in the short term.
• Media bias, especially in coverage of political violence and free speech, is a persistent grievance among conservatives—many feel “dehumanized” and mischaracterized, fueling further polarization.
• Both left and right often talk past each other—a recurring theme emphasized by both O’Connor and Doyle, who advocate for “understanding” and “reflection” rather than demonization.
• Political process issues (like primary calendar order) can have outsized influence on who captures party nominations.
• There is a hunger, and potential necessity, for leaders and citizens alike to break the cycle of partisan hatred in favor of empathy, especially in the wake of high-profile tragedies.

Episode Flow & Tone

The conversation is candid, sometimes somber (especially regarding Kirk’s assassination and America’s mood), but punctuated by moments of wry humor and sharp insight. Both guests and the host emphasize the need for empathy, self-critique, and honest engagement—without papering over the real divides and genuine frustrations many feel.

This summary covers the central themes, arguments, and exchanges of the episode, providing a clear account of both the Democratic Party’s internal debates and the broader media and cultural climate in which they unfold.