← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
Did JD Vance Just Kill His Presidential Hopes?
01:17:59
Are the deep state and Republican establishment engaged in an op to take down JD Vance? In today's episode of “Next Up with Mark Halperin,” Mark's reported monologue analyzes Vance's headline-making interview with Joe Rogan, examining what the reaction reveals about the vice president's political standing and his relationship with the Republican old guard. Mark also shares his latest reporting on why he believes President Trump may be preparing to escalate the conflict with Iran, while actor Ethan Suplee opens up about losing more than 300 pounds and the lifelong mindset that helps him keep the weight off. Plus, former Washington Post CEO Fred Ryan joins the show to discuss the importance of civility, rebuilding trust in the media, and how Americans can have more productive conversations across political divides. Sewer Sentry Environmental Technologies: See how smart tech protects both the environment and your budget at https://www.sewersentry.com Acre Gold: Turn your pocket ch...
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- [00:01]
UnitedHealth Group Narrator
Across the country, UnitedHealth Group is working with local partners to build healthier communities every day. That includes helping partners like the good acre provide 45,000 meals and lower A1C in the twin Cities, and helping hello Family doulas deliver 44% fewer underweight births in Spartanburg. Because building healthier communities starts by giving people access to the care and services they need to live healthier lives. Learn more@unitedhealthgroup.com commitment avoiding your unfinished home
- [00:31]
Mark Kalper
projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app Download Today. Hey Everybody. Welcome to NextUp with me your host, Mark Kalper, also editor in chief of live Interactive video platform 2way and your guide to everything. Coming next up. Happy to have you here. Glad that you're here. Two great guests and my reporting on a bunch of stuff. Joining us today is my two Way colleague, Ethan Supley, host of Lifelong. And if you're someone who's ever struggled with some combination or individually weight gain and addiction, you're going to want to hear Ethan's message and how he talks about these things. It's unlike anything I've seen. And I think he's going to be part of leading a revolution in this country about being healthier. And then also Fred Ryan, chairman of the Ronald Reagan Presidential foundation and Institute, used to be the guy who ran Politico and also at the Washington Post. Now also the director at the center on Civility and Democracy. He's got a new book called the Civility Handbook, a guide for all Americans. And it is an important stake in the ground to try to turn this country around so that we can have conversations that are spirited, important and civil. And we talk about the benefits of that and how to bring it about. Grateful to them for being here. Looking forward to talking to them both. But before that, before they're here, my reported monologue on JD Vance keying off of his interview with Joe Rogan, which has gotten a ton of attention and pegged also to the reality that the presidential race is coming 100 days to the midterms. And then shortly after that, you'll start to see people running for announce they're running for president. We'll be towards the early primaries before too long. And I get accused at times of rushing this process, but there's no rush, folks. This is happening and it's happening on each side, the Democratic and the Republican side, in different ways. On the Democratic side, the thing is more chaotic than even I had thought. I've talked about it being a weak field. I do my 8 for 28 and have had a bit of a hierarchy. The new polling out of New Hampshire and nationally demonstrates what I've been feeling for a bit. This thing is so wide open. The vacuum at the top is massive. We've never had a race with so many candidates who are seen as either boom or bust. That Democratic Party process will play out, particularly as the DNC puts its calendar together of the early nominating states. So on the one hand you've got folks eyeing the race and on the other hand, they don't know where they're going to be competing early on. And as you know from history, those early states are so important. So the Democratic race for President in 2028, to define the presidential campaign, to define the Democratic Party, to define America, that's a wide open mess. The Republican side is totally different. The Republican side, it's about one man right now. It's about J.D. vance. It's, it's binary. He'll be the nominee or he won't. I think if he wants to be the nominee, he's still celebrating the birth of his fourth child. If he wants to be the nominee, I think he'll, he'll get the nomination pretty easily with the support of President Trump. But, but this has been a watershed week and it's, it's grown to this. I've been trying to do my reporting this week on Iran, to try and do my reporting on the midterms, but they fall out. From the JD Vance interview last week of a piece with the trends we've talked about here before forced my reporting to be about J.D. vance, in part because I find what's happening so interesting and in part because of incoming from Vance supporters and Vance detractors and the support and detraction. Is that a word? It's coming from inside the Republican Party. I'm not talking about how Democrats feel about J.D. vance, although I think eventually if he does run, that'll be a big issue. Can J.D. vance be someone who unites the country? We had three straight two term presidents, Clinton, Bush and Obama, who aspired to unite the country and failed. President Trump talked about it, but really his campaign was not geared towards unity in 2016 or in 2020 or in 2024, JD Vance, biographically, maybe could unite the country. The discussion of whether JD Vance can appeal to independents who lean Democratic or to Democrats, that's a discussion for another day. What we're discussing now is the current state of how people say J.D. vance. I've become so fascinated by this. I like to say I'm America's leading chronicler of how do Republicans feel about J.D. vance? If you look at the public opinion polls, they like J.D. vance a lot. He's very popular with Republicans overall. Where he's become less popular is with some Democratic elites, with the donors in the party, and with some of the pundits in the party. Some of the columnists, some of the people who are columnists, who I most respect in this last week have written scathing columns about JD Vance. Scathing in one case, my friend Brett Stevens of the New York Times, and in another, Kim Strassel of the Wall Street Journal. Brett keyed off of the interview that J.D. vance, the Vice president, did with Joe Rogan. Kim Strassel keyed off of complaints on Capitol Hill that I've heard, too, that the vice president, who is president of the Senate and, and who has often been a key voice lobbying Congress on the administration's behalf of complaints that he's not been as engaged at a time when Congress has a lot on its plate. So what we're talking about here today is my reporting, on the one hand, from elites and some you see this merit mirrored publicly who do not like J.D. vance. And then the Vance supporters coming to his defense and saying all of this is not just unfair to JD Vance, but in some cases they're saying the criticism of J.D. vance is coming from the establishment because they don't like him and that they're making up controversies in order to try to bring him down. So what happened in the interview with Joe Rogan that set off this latest round of conversations about how do people feel about J.D. vance? It was almost three hours, and he talked about a range of stuff. What's gotten the most attention is some of the stuff he said about Israel. He made basically two accusations about Israel. One is that they, some people in the Israeli government are trying to stop the peace talks from happening because they don't want peace with Iran, they want the war to continue. Now, that's something that is controversial for him to say aloud. You wouldn't have heard Kamala Harris say that probably, or any other recent president or vice president, but a lot of them think it right Saying it aloud somehow caused a backlash. But then he also said something about about an article in Time magazine that suggested that Israel was engaged in some sort of improper, illicit, secret, covert influence campaign to spend money in the United States to influence public debate. Here's J.D. vance with Joe Rogan on that accusation. S4 please.
- [08:02]
J.D. Vance
But I definitely think you have seen this very discreet, extremely well funded campaign to try to derail the negotiation and try to derail the deal. And you know, there was again there's this Time article that came out yesterday. A friend sent it to me. It's like worth reading because it lists a bunch of people who have quite literally been paid by a former Trump campaign person who was himself paid by certain elements within the Israeli government. And, and those people are attacking me viciously for quite literally trying to accomplish the negotiation objective that the president set for the country. What bothers me is actually when Americans allow meaning American leadership allows that influence to affect their judgment and to affect what they are advocating for.
- [08:58]
Mark Kalper
A lot of people who are big supporters of Israel in this country like Bret Stephens do not like those remarks. But the criticism of the Rogan interview extended far beyond that. Look, you go to an interview Joe Rogan, he's going to ask you about some offbeat stuff. But you don't necessarily have to give offbeat answers. I can't show you the whole two and a half hours. But here's a bit of how J.D. vance talked about a range of topics with Joe Rogan. S5 please.
- [09:26]
J.D. Vance
Republicans still fundamentally have a cool problem, right? There's something more charismatic, more cool about the Democrats as opposed to the right thing. I couldn't get over Biden is it's like they would get him eating ice cream in the most ridiculous suggestive way imaginable.
- [09:44]
Mark Kalper
What would you think that we would have started this war in Iran without the influence of Israel?
- [09:49]
J.D. Vance
There are some people within their system we know beyond a shadow of a doubt manipulating and trying to change American public opinion to keep the war going on indefinitely.
- [09:59]
Mark Kalper
If it was your call, would you have done exactly the same thing?
- [10:02]
J.D. Vance
Well, one of the president said JD Was less enthusiastic about my approach to this is not to Monday morning quarterback a decision that was made three months ago. I'm not one of these people who says we should just abandon California to the Democrats, like let them deal with their own problems.
- [10:16]
Ethan Suplee
I think they stole the election.
- [10:18]
UnitedHealth Group Narrator
Yes.
- [10:20]
Mark Kalper
All right. Lot there a lot of stylistic stuff on display. Here's a bit more from the interview and this is some of the stuff Bret Stephens keyed off, please roll S1 and then S3 back to back.
- [10:30]
J.D. Vance
But if we're talking about an extraterrestrial being that is human like but not human, that contains effectively infinite powers and is torturing human beings, you can call it an alien if you want, but I think there's a lot of historical precedent to call that a demon. But if you're looking for me to concede the point that there is something different or could be something different between an angel, a demon, a space alien, a supernatural but non any of those other things beings. Yes, I concede that.
- [11:06]
Mark Kalper
All right. I look at the Rogan interview and I have an understanding of the people who contacted me and said, wow, what an incredible interview. J.D. vance, such a great communicator. No one else at his level of politics today could go on Rogan like that. And then I look read the calm by my friend Bret Stephens, who I respect so much. And I say this with no judgment. Brett is a. Is a charter member of what I call the gang of 500. He is a member of the establishment. He's writing from the point of view, far from the grassroots. But I was surprised at how scathing this was. A one, please. This Brett Stevens writing in the New York Times. He says the truth is that the demons are here. He's referring to the demon reference from J.D. vance. The demons are here. We elected them. A two, please. The truth that J. The Vance's interview with Rogan, as close as politics gives us to a national cancer diagnosis, was a blip in the news cycle because crazy today is every day and our capacity to feel shocked and diminishes with every asinine utterance coming from the Vice President's mouth, to say nothing of that of his boss. And here's the paragraph that really stunned me. A three, please. The truth. Fred Stevens writes that the current Vice President is by far the worst person ever to hold the office. Move over Aaron Burr, John C. Calhoun and Spirit to Agnew that he thinks, probably correctly, that there's no political downside in today's Republican party to talking like a guy who thinks Dan Brown novels are works of non fiction and that it's equally okay for a person who by his own admission has access to all US intelligence to tease the possibility of of deep state conspiracies of the sort his political base is likely to believe. The prospect of this callow and sinister opportunist taking the place of the erratic buffoon now governing us may be the single scariest thought in world politics today. Brett does not like Donald Trump. That's clear from this column in his past writing. But the scathing way he's, he's talking about J.D. vance's character, the, the trepidation he has at the person who's the most likely next president of the United States on paper is quite striking to me. And it contrasts with the people I know who looked at the same interview and thought it was great. Here's Kim Strassel's column. Let's go to A four, please. Kim, writing in the Wall Street Journal right around the time Brett did, says by contrast, lawmakers can count in a few fingers the times former Senator Vance has set foot in the Capitol as they twist the legislative winds. They glimpse him mainly on his TV and and podcast book tour. A5, please. The anger has only grown over Mr. Vance's decision to position himself as a scolder of the body over which he constitutionally presides, rather than showing up for the work. A lot of the back and forth on Twitter that Kim participated in was about the timing of whether he was on paternity leave or not. But the point is here you have another columnist, one of the leading voices on the center right being extremely critical of J.D. vance. And J.D. vance has a lot of supporters out there, not just in the grassroots but but on social media. Here's some of the ways people responded to Kim, to Kim's column and, and some of this could be seen as the way a response would come as well to what Brett Stevens wrote. A six, please. Sean Davis, big supporter of the president and, and of AD Vanced about Kim Strassel. I'm sorry, but pulling the obvious little stunt against J.D. vance, who just, who, whose wife just gave birth when Mitch McConnell hasn't been seen in weeks, is absolutely absurd. What are we even doing here? Here's Steve Corsairs. He says the legacy media continues a coordinated OP to smear J.D. vance. These actions from quote, conservatives are obvious and regrettable. Thankfully, they won't sway the masses of voters who matter. Steve. Steve's argument is this stuff is just the establishment trying to stop J.D. vance. Here's John Schweppe. I think that's how you pronounce his name. He, he worked in the Trump administration. He's now conservative activist. He says the anti Vance op isn't working and shows a chart with data suggesting JD Vance is very popular. Lastly, here's Break Cressis, a producer on the Blaze who says everything Vance says here, talking about the interview with Rogan is entirely correct. And you should be highly skeptical of anyone who attacks him for this. Calling it an op is a kind of a term of art. These folks are supporting JD Vance. And you know who else supports him is the public. He's ahead in on almost every poll. But his lead over Marco Rubio nationally in New Hampshire has narrowed for sure. Here's the New Hampshire Poll, a 10 done this week. J.D. vance used to be way ahead of Marco Rubio. You can see they had pulled in October of last year, February of this year, and now July. And the vice President's lead over Marco Rubio has narrowed substantially. You see again, Marco Rubio is very close. Now, as you've heard me say before, Marco Rubio is not going to run against J.D. vance. I don't believe so. So the notion that Rubio is going to enter a primary process and beat him, that's not, that's not what we're talking about. But what we are talking about is, is if you look on social media for, you know, positive and negative, you look at the polls, JD Vance is still super popular with Republicans, but so is Marco Rubio. Right now it's unusual for a vice president who wants to be president to waltz into the White House to waltz into the nomination. It's the challenge because vice presidents get covered in a particular way. But what we're seeing now with people lashing out at JD Vance, some of it over Israel, some of it over his character, some of it over a feeling that he's not the right person to carry on the Republican legacy, nobody thinks, I shouldn't say nobody. Few people think it's not. It's not because he's not MAGA enough. It is, as J.D. vance defenders say, it is largely the establishment who sees in some cases the opportunity to break the Trump grip on the Republican Party, to go back to a Republican Party that they liked before they see that opportunity to say JD Vance is not the right person to be the next president, to be the next nominee. And JD Vance isn't cowtowing to that. He's not catering to that. He's not trying to ameliorate, at least not publicly, what he did on Rogan. And again, he's been on paternity leave largely since then. What he did on Rogan is, is that's the real J.D. vance. Saying things other people won't say, engaging in conspiracy theories. He describes himself as a conspiracy theorist, making jokes, making light of things, speaking sometimes in an off color way, being openly critical of certain people and organizations who most people in public life Wouldn't publicly criticize. That's who he is. And that has rubbed some people in the establishment the wrong way. Some of it is no doubt the establishment bristling, the establishment wanting to take back the party in the post Trump era. But some of it, some of it is a judgment about J.D. vance, about his character, about the way he conducts himself in public life. Those people are on the wrong side of the opinion of the party. But if what they want is either a return to the pre Trump Republican Party or a president who can be a Republican and a conservative and unite all of America, they don't see that in J.D. vance. What's happening now may not matter, but it may be everything. If JD Vance struggles because someone, I don't think it'll be Marco Rubio, because someone runs against him. And like most all vice presidents, the coverage he gets could make it a challenge to win the nomination. If that's what happens, what we're seeing now will be foreshadowing the very dynamics that could occur. And what we're also seeing now is online and with the media. JD Vance has a lot of supporters who not only are rallying to him reflexively because they're loyal to him, but who see in J.D. vance, including in the exact same interview denounced by Brett Stevens, something they find not just appealing, but most appealing. They see in him the person who is not just the rightful heir to the president for whom he serves Donald Trump, but someone who will change the country in ways maybe even more profoundly MAGA than Donald Trump has. This debate will be on a low simmer through the end of November or through the election in November, low simmer. But immediately after the election, the heat's going to turn way up and you're going to see a battle over the heart and soul of the Republican Party, what it should stand for, the who should lead it. That's going to center around one man and the different views that I've heard so intensely this week and seen online and what he actually is, who he is, what he stands for and who he can be, both for the Republican Party and for the country and maybe in the Oval Office. I'm going to keep reporting on this story because to me it's so interesting, so interesting to have smart, serious people with a lot of data have different point of view about the one man and one interview. Let me know what you think. Am I right about J.D. vance? Or maybe more of the point, which view of JD Vance is more correct? Email me your thoughts. Is he the future of the Republican party or a big phony. Or as Brett Stevens says, the first vice president of all time. Send me an email nextupevilmaycaremedia.com Let me know what you think. Next up at Devil May Care Media. All right, quick break. When we come back, a special treat. Someone who I hope will, I think, will inspire you and allow you to think about health, eating, exercise, addiction and how to move forward in life in the face of adversity. My two way colleague, Ethan Supley will be here. Ethan is next up. In today's world, finding solutions that deliver both environmental and economic benefits can seem rare. Sewer Sentry Environmental Technologies is one of those solutions. They're innovative technologies. They help communities reduce energy consumption, lower maintenance costs and prevent costly sewer system failures before they occur. The result is improved performance, reduced operating expenses and long term savings for taxpayers. 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For more information, go to www.sewer sentry.com. next up, the kind of guest we like to have here. Someone who has done extraordinary things and can talk about them in a way that's compelling. You probably best know Ethan Suplee for his roles as an actor. Remember the Titans American History X My name is Earl Wolf of Wall Street. A great actor is extraordinary accomplishment, a competitive field, and Ethan's had extraordinary success there. But now he has turned his part of his efforts to something that is maybe I would say more extraordinary. Acknowledging problems, grappling with them, and using his experience to help others. Ethan is my colleague at Two Way, where he hosts the program Lifelong. Here is a bit of what Ethan's story tells us.
- [23:50]
Ethan Suplee
50 50. I've been sitting with that number for a week now. When I was young, I never pictured myself as an older person. Throughout I was 21 or 22, I was over £500 and my legs were so swollen with edema that they produced two kinds of pain at the same time. Heroin helped with all of that heroin dissolved time. I remember that so clearly. And I also remember going to bed last night genuinely excited about today.
- [24:24]
Mark Kalper
Being sick, unhealthy, having addictions. These are tough things to combat. And most people unfortunately don't combat them in a way that helps others. And many people, of course, don't try or do and fail. I'm proud to say that next up is my two Way colleague Ethan Supley, host of Lifelong airs, streams Monday nights at 7pm Eastern on two way and on podcast platform is a person who has overcome adversity and is now helping others in an extraordinary way. Ethan, great to have you here.
- [24:56]
Ethan Suplee
Thank you so much for having me.
- [24:57]
Fred Ryan
What an intro.
- [24:58]
Ethan Suplee
I appreciate it.
- [24:59]
Mark Kalper
Yeah, I mean, ever since we first started talking to you about coming to two Way, I've said this is exactly what America that the world needs, is someone who can share not just information, but an ethos of fighting back and dealing with adversity. The weight loss alone is an extraordinary achievement. But. But talk about how that's coupled with dealing with addiction and what that challenge is like.
- [25:22]
Ethan Suplee
Yeah, the two things ran really similar in parallel for me, and it took me a long time to figure that out. My instinct at first with addiction was if I can stay sober for 30 days, I will remain sober. And that just wasn't the case. It was something that I had to confront, would be a. A lifelong management. There was no real curing of that for me. So it's something I still have to deal with day to day, although it gets less. It's less hard to deal with. And similarly with food. You know, my mom was one of these kind of hippie health people who was very suspicious of Western medicine, only shopped at organic stores. And her, her way of trying to deal with my weight as a little kid was to say that the things that I was eating were bad. And it never really confronted my relationship with food, my personal habits, my proclivities, my cons, my compulsions. And so when I as an adult tried to address that, it took me many, many years of, you know, pick your poison, whether it be carbohydrates or lectins or nightshades or ultra processed foods. And by saying or thinking that if I just excise those from my diet, I will miraculously get better. And get better for me meant lose weight. And. And while I would lose a little bit of weight sometimes by doing that, the weight always came back and it came back rapidly. And so it was a similar thing of going like, oh, no, it's not it's not the food that's the problem really. It's my behavior with the food. It's my over consumption of the food. And so I also had to figure out for myself that that would be a lifelong battle and something that I couldn't cure through weight loss, but I could learn to manage it.
- [27:22]
Mark Kalper
I'm a big fan of well named programs. I think a well named program's got a lot better chance to succeed. You have one of the best named programs of anybody I know and I know a lot of people with programs lifelong. Explain what that title means to you.
- [27:35]
Ethan Suplee
It really means that, you know, the. For me, losing weight is the easiest part. Maintaining weight loss is going to be something I have to work on forever and getting okay with that, accepting that, coming to terms with that, that this will be something that I deal with forever, that I have to put some effort into. You know, man, I go to the gym six days a week and have been doing that for many years. And you would think, like, it's just second nature, like I don't ever wake up and not want to brush my teeth, but I often wake up and don't want to go to the gym. And this is something I have to decide to do. Not every single day, but often. I have to wake up and decide to do that. I have to wake up and decide to eat better. I have to wake up and decide to keep my habits in check and my compulsions in check and not be so overwhelmed, overly swayed by marketing. This is a lifelong endeavor.
- [28:36]
Mark Kalper
Everybody's different. Everybody's body's different. We all know people who eat whatever they want and they don't get fat. And we all know people who diet regularly and, and way more than they want to. So everybody has to adjust the reality. I want to talk about two topics that affect most of us. One is portion control. Right? You could say I'm gonna eat really healthy, you know, I'm not gonna eat any processed foods, whatever. I'm going to eat protein and then, and then you eat, you know, a whole chicken with the skin. How do you, how do you think about portion control in terms of a lifelong commitment to being healthy?
- [29:08]
Ethan Suplee
Portion control was the single biggest determining factor in me successfully maintaining the weight I lost. I've been the weight I'm at now since 2019 and portion control was, was the entire game. I tried keto and I would lose a little bit of weight by cutting out all carbohydrates. I would lose some weight. But then because there is no real discussion of Portion control on keto, I can out eat my body's needs in ribeye steaks and olive oil very, very easily. I can eat too much of that food. If all that's available to me is lobster tails and clarified butter, I will overeat that. And so for me, and I, and I appreciate what you said and I completely agree that everybody is different and a life is very nuanced. But for me, portion control was very, very important.
- [30:04]
Fred Ryan
Yeah.
- [30:04]
Mark Kalper
And of course, in America, particularly if you go to a restaurant or even to a supermarket and get some packaged like a, like a chicken, the portions are just too big. In America, they're just, they're way too big. And you gotta have the courage and the concentration to focus, to say, I, I, somebody cooked me this whole steak. I'm not going to eat the whole steak. I'm going to eat a third of the steak. But that requires, it's practical, but for me, in my own life and studying this, a lot of it is attitudinal. It's, it's almost like an ethos. And part of why I think you're so, you're such an important voice now is you have the right ethos. You're calm about it, you're focused on it, but it's not consuming you. And when you make a mistake, it doesn't ruin your life. You, you get refocused. So talk about the discipline, the mindset that's required to live a healthy life. Not just eating right, but exercising, sleeping, do all the right things. What's the, how do people get to the right mindset if they're off track?
- [31:01]
Ethan Suplee
Well, something you said there is really important and that is that if you make a mistake, you get back on track. For many years, my operating basis was holding on like white knuckling perfection. And then any mistake would drift me into months of a relapse. You know, like I'd messed up and I couldn't get back to whatever my baseline was. I had to come to terms with accepting that perfection was impossible, that I had a structure that I could live with, that I could maintain, and that some slight deviation from that was, was par for the course. It was going to happen. You know, I think it was like a number of holidays in a row that I just didn't participate in. The food that my family would spend days and days making. You know, Thanksgiving would come and I'd eat only white meat turkey, peeling the skin off and, and this was disappointing to my kids. My, my, I have four daughters. They like to bake a lot. They were always baking stuff. I think the most devastating thing came to me on the day that they didn't invite me to try what they, you know, after years of me declining to taste the food that they make, they just stopped inviting me to participate. And that hurt my feelings. I was like, wait, you don't want. There's not going to be an argument over this banana bread that you made that I'm denying to participate in. And so I went like, you know, in order to have the best life I can have, I will occasionally eat off my plan and it's not going to be the end of the world.
- [32:38]
Mark Kalper
Yeah. You know, one of my friends has used this, a famous expression, nothing tastes as good at being thin. Feels the opposite of that for me is I would rather die than give up turkey skin. That's the stuff of life two way. Our tagline is conversations like no other. There are lots of shows people can watch on YouTube, on television, etc, about healthy eating and about being healthy. How are your conversations on lifelong conversations like no other?
- [33:05]
Ethan Suplee
I think that we get into specifics about people's lives that can be relatable. Relatable in a broad sense. You know, hearing about what one person is struggling with can unlock some perspective you weren't even aware of in yourself. And so really having as broad conversation, you know, I want to talk to people who, who are hell bent on focusing on the ingredients rather than the total intake because maybe that'll unlock something that I wasn't aware of with myself. I think the other thing is for a long time I tried to do weight loss by myself and was not accountable to anyone. And so that portion of actually talking to other people and being vulnerable and getting as honest about my own struggles as I can really helps me deal with them.
- [34:00]
Mark Kalper
Yeah. Again, the whole point of two ways to build authentic community around ideas and passions and personalities. And if you have any need for help in your life to understand how to live a healthy life, to eat right, to exercise, to have the right mindset, you want to be part of the lifelong community. Again, as Ethan said, he's guests on the program. Some of them are people you've never heard of. Recent episode had someone lots of you have heard of actor his fellow actor Kevin Smith. Here's a bit of lifelong with Ethan and Kevin Smith. S7 please.
- [34:32]
Ethan Suplee
I first met Kevin Smith on an audition for Mallrats in 1995. God damn, that is over 30 years ago. It wasn't until after 2018 that he and I sat down and talked about our weight. Something both of us had struggled with for a long time. How, how much of a motivation is family? Is your kid, is your wife?
- [34:55]
UnitedHealth Group Narrator
He.
- [34:55]
Fred Ryan
Honestly, it's sad to say for most of Harley's life it wasn't a motivation because you go back and, you know, just google Kevin Smith 2000s or whatever, you know, all throughout Harley's life, I've remained heavy.
- [35:10]
Mark Kalper
In fact, got heavier.
- [35:11]
Fred Ryan
And like when, when Jen got pregnant, I kind of, you know, gained the sympathy weight.
- [35:17]
Ethan Suplee
Yeah.
- [35:18]
Fred Ryan
Then she had the baby and lost the weight and I kept it.
- [35:21]
Ethan Suplee
And then I just kept going. Sorry, what?
- [35:24]
Fred Ryan
Until I had the heart attack in 2017. Was that what it was?
- [35:29]
J.D. Vance
Yeah, because.
- [35:30]
Ethan Suplee
Yeah, we're coming up on.
- [35:32]
Fred Ryan
No, 2020. No, 2018 because we're coming up on.
- [35:35]
Mark Kalper
We just passed eight years.
- [35:36]
Fred Ryan
So when I had the heart attack, that was a wake up call because suddenly it was like, what do you
- [35:41]
Ethan Suplee
mean I could die?
- [35:42]
Mark Kalper
You know that, that's a bit of the conversation. I recommend the whole thing to people. How hard is it if you're in public life to do this? Is it harder? Is it easier than, than if you're, if you're an anonymous person?
- [35:55]
Ethan Suplee
You know, it was really, I will be honest with you, when there, there was a point in my life because I, I started dieting as an adult in 2002, and, you know, when I lost weight, when I lost a substantial amount of weight the first time, I kind of wanted to just tell people.
- [36:15]
Mark Kalper
I'm sorry to interrupt. Tell people what? The number. When you say substantial, tell people the number.
- [36:18]
Ethan Suplee
Yeah.
- [36:19]
Fred Ryan
Okay.
- [36:19]
Ethan Suplee
I went from the highest weight I saw on a scale was 536 pounds. At 536 pounds, swings could be 15, 20 pounds. So I like to round that up and say 550, but I, I never actually saw five.
- [36:35]
Mark Kalper
And how tall are you?
- [36:37]
Ethan Suplee
I'm six one.
- [36:38]
Carl's Jr. Advertiser
Okay.
- [36:39]
Mark Kalper
So it's almost impossible to imagine the proportions of that. Yeah, 550 and 6:1. It's almost impossible to imagine it.
- [36:46]
Ethan Suplee
I was very, very large. And by 2011 I was down to 220. So I had lost amazing. I'd lost over 300 pounds and I hadn't talked to anybody about this. I just, it was all, you know, diet and exercise. I tried many, many diets. And at that time I was super obsessed with riding bicycles. Ride my bike six to eight hours a day. And I got properly lean and I. And I wanted to just pretend the old version of me had never existed. And there were a number of paparazzi incidents of Them taking pictures of me while riding my bike, you know, in spandex, and doing super close ups of loose skin around my knees. And then there was another thing that happened where TMZ interviewed me. And then one of the producers of, of that TMZ show said on Twitter, well, he's still fat. And I was. I'd lost £300, but I'm still fat. And so that kind of thing really discouraged me from wanting to talk about it publicly. But the other problem with that was holding it all inside and not opening up to anybody about it really made it hard to get totally under control. It was part of that, like pretending I had hit some finish line and I didn't have work. It was. It was partially pretending that it wasn't going to be a lifelong struggle, that it was a fixed or finished process. And so when I did accept that this was something I was going to have to deal with, by the way, from that point, I gained 100 pounds or more. I gained 180 pounds. I went back up to 400 pounds pounds. So I never really had held on to substantial weight loss without regaining weight for a long time until I started talking to people about it, until I opened up and became more honest with myself and other people about it. And at that point, I've now maintained this weight loss since 2019. Yeah.
- [39:06]
Mark Kalper
Amazing.
- [39:07]
Ethan Suplee
Yeah.
- [39:08]
Mark Kalper
Where are your fat clothes? You still have them or did you throw them out?
- [39:11]
Ethan Suplee
I have a couple things. I have a couple of things. Mostly it's wardrobe from movies. Like, I have a jersey from Remember the Titans and jacket from Mallrats.
- [39:19]
Mark Kalper
Yeah. I find it dangerous to keep the fat clothes around because I know I can. I know I can put them on and. And if I gain just a little weight right now, I got one suit I can wear. I own a lot of beautiful suits, but I only have one I can wear. Currently, I'm getting close to fitting in the other ones. But. But the fat clothes are, are to me, the throwing away of the fat clothes is not only it takes away the crutch, but it's a great feeling to say, you know, I've eliminated that period for my life and I'm never going back.
- [39:49]
Ethan Suplee
There was a 20 year period where I just kept sections in my closet of different weighted clothes. And it wasn't until about five years after I had maintained this weight, you know, I got to this weight and I never really deviated from it for five years that my wife finally said, you're not going to wear those clothes again. We're Throwing them away. And it still made me very nervous, to be honest with you.
- [40:16]
Mark Kalper
Could, you could have donated them to a sailing team. They could have made sales out of some of that stuff. Same with mine. I'm not making fun. What do you think about kids? You know, kids in America eat candy. They eat carbohydrates like crazy. They, they don't really worry about portion control. And in fact, a lot of parents will be like, eat more. You know, you need to grow. Is it important, do you think, to teach kids about, about nutrition, portion control, not eating processed foods or when they're kids, it's okay.
- [40:45]
Ethan Suplee
No, I think it's vitally important. You know, if we look at the rate of, you know, I have a kid with type 1 diabetes, which forever. She got it when she was 4. It had nothing to do with her weight.
- [40:56]
Mark Kalper
Yeah.
- [40:58]
Ethan Suplee
And that at the time was called juvenile diabetes because you, you didn't get the other type as a younger person. And now they can't even call type 1 diabetes juvenile diabetes because so many kids are getting type 2 diabetes because of their diet and lifestyle. I think that this is a total travesty in, in our country with the resources we have and what we know about nutrition that, you know, in the public schools, the food being served to these kids is, is horrendous and there's not more emphasis on physical activity. I think education is the best place to do it and it's vitally important. You know, when I was a fat little kid, I felt like I was alone. I didn't know another fat little kid. And now when I look at schools, there are just so many overweight and obese little kids that it's, it's very upsetting.
- [41:59]
Mark Kalper
So I wish, I wish when I was a kid, some grown up or somebody had said to me, don't go to Shakey's and order a large pepperoni pizza and eat it all yourself. Because I thought that was just normal Maha. I thought from the beginning of Bobby Kennedy's place on the national stage as a presidential candidate that he was doing something historic and important. But that has its critics. What do you like about the Maha movement? What are you worried about or concerned about?
- [42:25]
Ethan Suplee
I like the increased protein on the, the, the suggestions. I just, I don't think a lot of people pay attention to that. Had they been paying attention to the previous one, we would be a healthier nation.
- [42:39]
Mark Kalper
The government recommendations.
- [42:41]
Ethan Suplee
About the government recommendations. Yeah, had, had, had people been following the previous recommendations diligently, we would not be as obese as we are. And so while I think they've improved on that, I don't have a huge amount of faith that that's going to actually solve anything for us. For me, I think Maha focuses too much on ingredients. So there's going to be like a big, you know, argument over food dyes or over seed oils or over the minutia, and not enough focus on total intake, which I think is a much bigger problem. You know, if you swap out high fructose corn syrup for cane sugar and Coca Cola, but people don't stop drinking as much Coca Cola, the problem doesn't get any better.
- [43:32]
Fred Ryan
Yeah.
- [43:33]
Ethan Suplee
And so I think there's an opportunity, you know, miraculously right now, and I think this is the due largely to the pharmaceuticals that have just recently been released. But obesity is ticking down. I think we're down 3 or 4% in the last couple of years, which is miraculous because it had been ticking up for 30 years, steadily. So something good is happening right now. We are on a better trajectory. I just wish Maha talked more about overall portions than they do about specific ingredients.
- [44:08]
Mark Kalper
Right. Two ways meant to build authentic communities. And no matter how big the company grows, no matter how many shows we have, how many hosts we have, Ethan, your community will be as important to what we do as anybody's, because this is. This is the stuff of life and. And the challenge of life for so many people in this country and around the world. And. And I just. I literally have never met or heard of anybody who's more qualified to lead this conversation than you are. Grateful to you.
- [44:33]
Ethan Suplee
Thank you so much. It's.
- [44:35]
Fred Ryan
It's.
- [44:35]
Ethan Suplee
It's really become a mission for me.
- [44:37]
Mark Kalper
Yeah, yeah. Join the mission. Join the community every Monday, 7pm Eastern time. And you can watch On Demand Lifelong with East Ethan Suple, available on two ways and as a podcast, and gives you an opportunity, as Ethan said, to hear other people's stories, to raise your hand and share your story, to ask questions. This is a solvable problem for almost everybody. But you need to have the opportunity Ethan had, which is to talk to people about it and not try to do it on your own. Become part of Lifeline. Ethan, thank you. Great to see you. All right, quick break. Next up, my discussion now of the Iran situation and the choices President Trump faces. That conversation is next up. Think for a moment about the last 30 bucks that you spent, maybe on a streaming subscription through a service you don't even watch, or a lunch you've already forgotten about. That's $30 that's gone forever. Acre Gold lets you turn that lost money into something better, physical 24 karat Swiss gold. You pick a plan, your balance builds up and once you hit the price of a bar, they ship it straight to your front door. Real gold in your hand at your house and over time, you're sitting on something that's been valuable since the dawn of civilization. And for you collectors out there, they've just dropped the limited edition Hot Wheels collection. These are officially licensed by Mattel. They're strictly capped and once they're gone, they're history. While you're checking those out, claim your free entry to the Speed Club Sweepstakes. There, they're giving away a 1 gram Hot Wheels gold bar plus something really cool, a massive grand prize. The 10 gram 24 karat gold Hot Wheels bar. Both come in official collector packaging and they're up for grabs right now. So start stacking for just 30 bucks@getacregold.com again go to getacregold.com mark to subscribe today.
- [46:32]
UnitedHealth Group Narrator
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- [47:35]
Mark Kalper
All right, next up, a bit of my reporting right now on Iran. Of course, the story we've been talking about here, I've been reporting on for quite some time. And for a while this week it has appeared confused. What's the President going to do as I sit here and talk to you right this minute, Growing sense amongst my sources growing sense in reporting that the president may escalate with Iran and people cast it now as he can't walk away from Iran because of the straight he's either got to escalate it big or he's got to continue to do what's being done, which is every so often, hit Iran and try to get through the midterms, hope gas prices don't go up, hope the market doesn't go down. And they say, well, he can't strike big because Iran could strike back. We've seen Iran has the capability to strike back. He can't strike big. Back big because an expanded conflict will raise gas prices before the midterms. He can't strike big because he can't have American casualties. Well, I think one of the mistakes people are making is when the President says he doesn't care about the midterms, which he said several times. When he says he doesn't care about the economy, he doesn't mean he doesn't care. What he means is he's determined to win this war. And winning this war, he hoped involved an initial military confrontation leading to negotiations. If you listen to me, you know, I was skeptical about the memorandum of understanding. I'm skeptical that Iran, whoever is at the negotiating table, whoever is leading that country, I'm skeptical that they'll make a deal, which doesn't mean I'm, I'm sort of unbridled in support of turning Iran into a parking lot. But rationally, many people have now told the President, you can't, you can't, you can't expect that to do the same thing over and over with this group and get a different result. And the Pentagon has plans and plans about plans and all sorts of views that they've conveyed to the President about how to escalate this and perhaps change Iranian behavior. I find it hard to believe any Iranian behavior is going to be changed. But there are things that can be done that make the Iranian leadership pay a price, make the Iranian military capacity, which has been degraded, be degraded even more, and make it harder for Iran to think about restarting its nuclear program. If I were a betting person, I'd bet that's what the President's going to do. He won't do it lightly. He won't do it in a way that everybody will like, to say the least. But as I've talked to folks this week, and as I've looked at the public statements and I've read the body language of the President, I've reached a conclusion that. My guess is before we reconvene next Tuesday, you'll see a pretty big escalation of this conflict and an escalation that will be risky, that'll involve potential damage to American life and property. And folks in the region. But more and more, as I talk to folks, I hear a dismissiveness about the prospect of a negotiated deal. The Iranians might say, as the president does, that they want him to meet. The intermediaries may be pushing for another deal. But there's a, there's a certain body opinion around the president that says no Moss, no, no prospect of signing anything with these folks and assuming that they'll live up to it. The president needs to open the strait and he needs to diminish even further the Iran nuclear capacity as well as their missile capacity. And I believe right now on a knife's edge, the president's leaning against thinking this can be negotiated and thinking it has to be accomplished by military force. We'll see. I'll keep the reporting going and we'll bring you specials as we need to. But as I said, more than since the MoU was signed at this moment, I believe military confrontation of an, of a large nature is more in the cards than I have up until now. All right. As I said, we'll keep following it. Quick break. And then next up, Fred Ryan, chairman of the Ronald Reagan Presidential foundation and Institute and the director of the center on Civility and Democracy. He's got a new book called the Civility Handbook, a guide for all Americans. We'll tell you how you can get it and why you can get it. Fred Ryan is next up. The reason everybody's talking about weight loss injections is because the results can be so dramatic. They work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite. So what if you're looking to lose weight but not interested in those painful weekly injections, especially after you hear about what some of those side effects are, well, then look to this. 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- [53:19]
UnitedHealth Group Narrator
country, UnitedHealth Group is working with local partners to build healthier communities every day. That includes helping partners like the good acre provide 45,000 meals and lower A1C in the twin Cities. And helping hello Family doulas deliver 44% fewer underweight births in Spartanburg. Because building healthier communities starts by giving people access to the care and services they need to live healthier lives. Learn more@unitedhealthgroup.com commitment.
- [53:48]
Mark Kalper
Yeah.
- [53:49]
Carl's Jr. Advertiser
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- [54:06]
Mark Kalper
We bag it.
- [54:08]
Carl's Jr. Advertiser
Just 5.99. Build your bag all day and unlock more choices on the app. Available for a limited time at participating restaurants. Tax not included. Price may vary. Not valid to any other offer, discount or combo. See app for details.
- [54:22]
Mark Kalper
All right, next up, everybody, it's Fred Ryan. He's the chairman of the Ronald Reagan Presidential foundation and Institute. He was the founding president and CEO of Politico and now the director of the center on Civility and Democracy and the author of a new book that fits right in with my vision of not only what's wrong with America, but what's right with America. It's called the Civility A Guide for All Americans. Next up here is Fred Ryan. Fred, welcome.
- [54:47]
Fred Ryan
Thank you, Mark. Great to be with you again.
- [54:50]
Mark Kalper
You confront and have for a long time the same paradox I do. Tens of millions of people around the country say, why can't there be more civility? Why has our politics become so rough? And then yet everybody just sits back and lets the loudest and angriest voices dominate the national town square. So talk about the center and the book and how that mission is going to try to change the dynamics of our country.
- [55:12]
Fred Ryan
Well, thanks, Mark. And I mean, just as you point out, we've done some research that showed a couple of interesting things. One, less than a third of Americans believe that our civil discourse is healthy. And that's a reason to be concerned because it's a threat to our democracy. But the other number that was encouraging, 75% want to move past it. The point that you make, they're frustrated with it and they want change. So we've been working with a lot of different groups with academic institutions, with elected officials, with sports organizations. But one question that people have raised is what can we do? What is it that we can do as ordinary Americans? And one of the questions, well, they want some practical. So one of the things we did was let's put together something very simple, Civility Handbook. So actually, for the last year, we've been working with scholars, with students, clergy, media to put together this handbook. It's something that is nonpartisan, but it offers simple solutions that people can do to address this civility crisis.
- [56:14]
Mark Kalper
All right, so first of all, if people want to read the book, how can they do that?
- [56:18]
Fred Ryan
It's free, it's available. In fact, I have your copy right here. It's called the Civility Handbook, and It's available@civilityhandbook.com there's also a digital version if people want to read a flipbook. But if they just reach out to us, we'll send it to them and individuals. We've had teachers wanting it for their classrooms, elected officials wanting it for their state school system. So we've been really encouraged by the response so far.
- [56:43]
Mark Kalper
All right, and again, if people want to read it online, where do they go?
- [56:46]
Fred Ryan
Go to civilityhandbook.com and you can read the digital flipbook. You can forward it to somebody or you can order a hard copy, too.
- [56:53]
Mark Kalper
All right, now, since you're giving it away, and since you're probably not going to sell the movie rights, let's give away the ending. What do people learn from this? Is it just a bunch of homage to civility, or are there practical things in there that people can use?
- [57:06]
Fred Ryan
It's meant to be practical. It's not an academic exercise or even a scholarly work. It's simple things that people can do. And to give away, kind of the storyline, it is that, yes, we're going to disagree. And some of our greatest leaders have had strong views, and they've been firm in their views, but they've been able to disagree respectfully. And they've also been able not to disagree in a way that they can come back and get something done in the areas where they do agree. And that's one of the problems we have right now. And I think that's one of the reasons Americans are frustrated, was because we disagree on a certain subject. And we immediately conclude that that person has a bad idea and they're a bad person. Conversation's over. And our elected officials are doing the same thing. But people want to get things done, so they want us to disagree, but they also want us to do it in a way where we can get something done in the areas where we do agree. As you know, years ago, I worked for President Reagan, and he had a saying that kind of stuck with me. He would say, if you can get 80% of what you want in a deal, take it and come back, next deal and try to get the rest. But we're in an environment right now where it's not enough for you to win. Sometimes it seems it's even more important for your opponent to have a humiliating loss. And when you get in that mode, it doesn't really advance the interests of our democracy.
- [58:24]
Mark Kalper
So give an example of something in the book that not a member of Congress could use, but a normal person that would contribute to the solution.
- [58:32]
Fred Ryan
Well, there are several. One is to tolerate disagreement. And the book has quotes from a number of different people, from Sandra Day o' Connor to Snoop Dogg. But one is Steve Case, excuse me, Steve Jobs at Apple. And he said, we like disagreement and we like arguments, and the reason was they could build a better product. So he was very open to having a lot of clash of ideas. And the case in point we use is that led to the creation of the iPhone. There were. There was a strong disagreement on what it should look like and what its features should be. And he let that disagreement continue and continue, and it built a great product. Another example is humility. That's one of the things I think all of us, I try to work on, we all need to work on, I think, is to bring that to the argument. If you come in saying, I know I'm right and it doesn't matter what you say, and I'm just listening long enough to refute what you're saying, you're not really going to get anywhere. But if you can be open to the idea that there might be something that your. Your adversary has to say or your opponent has to say, then, then that's. That could be valuable. And then, and I'd say, finally, one of the things is that none of us do enough is listen. And we've got a quote from Larry King. He said, I've learned everything in my life from listening, not from talking. And listening to what someone has to say before you respond is also something that's very important to promoting civility.
- [60:00]
Mark Kalper
All right, that's a great list and a great group of people. Are we talking here about political disagreements about Congress and the presidency and about issues related to public policy, or are you hoping more broadly to diffuse, you know, a community's trying to decide where to build the snack bar and have a fight about that?
- [60:20]
Fred Ryan
Right.
- [60:21]
Mark Kalper
In all realms, or you really focus more on the political realm?
- [60:24]
Fred Ryan
No, we're trying to go everywhere from the family dinner table to the political arena, and some of the same rules apply. We've Got one chapter on just basically, we've been through these. You get a family dinner, it's Thanksgiving, whatever, and uncle so and so says something, and the next thing you know, everybody's arguing. So we've put some very practical things that people can do in that environment. But as you point out and you cover it, obviously the political arena is where we see it at its worst and where we see it really hurting the country. And I've seen, and you've probably seen over the years what helps people succeed in the political arena. Years ago, you could be an effective member of Congress if you had subject matter expertise or you were a parliamentarian, or you could raise money now. And there are still good people trying to do that. But now you have people who, who are there to get high profile on social media, say something on social media that can get them a cable hit, go on cable and then raise money off of it. And it's kind of, it rewards this, this hostile behavior, toxic behavior, rather than penalize it.
- [61:30]
Mark Kalper
I'm going to give you an example from yesterday in my life that fits. Right. It illustrates the problem you're trying to address. And I can't be too specific about, but there was a group of people on a zoom, and we were supposed to all be working together on a project. And the whole point of the project, again, is the same ethos as a civility handbook. It was supposed to be, let's have conversations that aren't about conflict, but about understanding and search for common ground. And when there's disagreement, let's have honest disagreement, but not assume bad faith on the part of others. We were having kind of a practice for the real session, and after it ended, one person dropped out and they said, I'm dropping out because the other people don't agree with me. And I felt they were hostile to me. And so now we've lost one of the key participants because of the exact dynamic we're trying to, we're trying to address. So people get the handbook, they look at it online, they read it. How do they have the courage then to actually practice that? Because to some extent, and if it's in the context of, let's be honest, we haven't said that the T word yet. If it's in the context of, here's a group that likes Trump, here's a group that doesn't like Trump, the minute somebody's triggered, the minute somebody feels like it's tribal, they're done. And you, and you see that at the dinner table with families, I saw it Yesterday, in this meeting. How do you. How do you expect people to read the book and then actually have the courage to do it? Because it's hard. Because it's hard. Because it's necessary.
- [62:52]
Fred Ryan
Well, part of what is important to this, and it sounds like that's the purpose of your project, was to show and model the good behaviors.
- [63:00]
Mark Kalper
Right.
- [63:01]
Fred Ryan
And to showcase it. And we've been doing a lot of that. We bring together people from opposite political parties. We bring your people in the media from the far left, far right. They talk about where they disagree, and that's fine. And then they talk about where we find common ground. In the case of the person you mentioned, I mean, the best thing I can just say is modeling it. In fact, if you want Mark, I'll send you a copy of this and you could send it to him anonymously.
- [63:27]
Mark Kalper
I think it's too late. I probably should have distributed it beforehand.
- [63:33]
Fred Ryan
But it's, you know, it's something that people say, well, is this manners? Is this niceties or whatever? No, it's. That's not what it's about at all. It's about being able to effectively disagree. Because the reason we launched this whole center is not to teach people manners or protocol or etiquette or anything like that. It's because our democracy only functions when we can have constructive disagreement. And this is something that you mentioned, people in their. In their different bubbles and all. It goes all the way back. George Washington, in his farewell address, his warning to America was, don't devolve into factions, where you put the faction's interest above the nation's interest. And that was a concern he had, and we're seeing a lot of that now.
- [64:16]
Mark Kalper
Yeah. So as you said, it happened in Washington Times. I tell people regularly or remind people we fought an actual civil war. There was. There was a shooting civil war. It seems one thing that's different now, that didn't exist previously is social media. And even. Even the world's biggest experts on the way social media contributes to polarization and discord and lack of civility. I can tell even the world's biggest experts don't truly understand it, because to understand it would require an interdisciplinary understanding of the minds of a child, the minds of an adult, how people consume social media. But we all know intuitively that's a big part of what's happening now, because the loudest, angriest voices have unlimited access to what used to be relatively controlled public airways. So how do you see the connection between a handbook and the. The unlimited amount of content on social media every second.
- [65:10]
Fred Ryan
Right.
- [65:10]
Mark Kalper
Since we've been talking, there have been a lot of incivility that's taken place. How does this handbook possibly surmount the obstacle caused by discord and lack of civility on social media?
- [65:22]
Fred Ryan
Well, I'd say social media is one of the biggest challenges to civility today. And we have an entire chapter in the book about social media. But the problem is, you mentioned the Civil War and all of our differences in the past. It's kind of human instinct to move past things to come back together. Time heals all wounds. But social media is a roadblock to that. It blocks the off ramps instead of, if you imagine you have a disagreement with a friend and pretty soon you want to move past it and you're ready to. But social media is like someone whispering in your ear constantly saying, no, they're bad, they're worse than you think they are. They're a terrible human being. Don't think about trying to make up with them. And is, is the outrage is the oxygen on social media, people. It feeds you the goal. Any social media platform, and we spent a lot of time on this, the goal is to keep you on that platform. So if you're looking at pictures of puppies, it's going to send you more puppy pictures. If you're looking at cars, it's going to send you that. If you're in political conversations, it's going to keep upping the outrage to keep you on. And it puts you in an environment where even the worst views are reinforced. So you might have a view that in the pre social media days, you would be standing in a, in a park screaming and people will be ignoring you. But now social media brings all those park screamers together and it reinforces what they believe and it leaves them feeling that they've got the right view. So the best thing to do with social media, particularly with young people you mentioned, their brains are developing, is to stay off of it. But secondly, go on and by all means don't treat social media as a source of news. As you know, social media platforms, they have no journalists, they have no editors, no fact checkers. So go to trusted sources of news rather than social media if you're gonna, if you're gonna try to prepare yourself for conversation.
- [67:10]
Mark Kalper
What about my idea that I've, I've posited for a while and haven't had time to do anything about? Let's build an army of people who believe in civility and democracy. Get them on the social platforms. And when someone's acting not civil. When someone's attacking someone else personally swarm the thing and add messages that are positive and constructive. Is that something that could scale and be done?
- [67:36]
Fred Ryan
Yeah. I mean our view is the way we get past this is when people say we've had enough. And the way to do that is call people out. In individual cases you can do it in a very friendly way. You can give them a copy of the handbook as a message. But also with our elected officials, you look at these town halls have been taking place and they become very uncivil. But even when they're not, so often the elected officials stand up and say, I'm going to Washington. I'm stopping all those bad things that the other people on the other side are doing. I promise I'll stop it all. The better question may be from all of us as citizens is what have you done? What have you accomplished? Some of the loudest voices in Congress right now have not introduced a single bill that's passed through Congress.
- [68:22]
Mark Kalper
Congress, yeah.
- [68:22]
Fred Ryan
But they're very loud and they have high profile. And I think a lot of this, it's going to come back to us as a citizens just to demand accountability from the people. We send it to Washington and we send to represent us in the state houses.
- [68:35]
Mark Kalper
Yeah, it's, it's loony how few tweets. And Twitter is a big part of the problem. There's other platforms, of course. 20 tweets would cause a member of Congress to, to go in some nuts direction because they're so intimidated and they're so afraid, oh, you know, their press secretary will come running in. You know, it's all over Twitter. You know, you need to not support this bill. And so again, my idea is it won't take many of us of like minded people. We just need a little organization and direction to not walk away from social media because if we do, we seed the ground, 20 tweets, the congresswoman to say, congressman, no, this bill is important to your constituents, please vote for it. Then the press secretary walks in and says, Twitter's mixed. You know, you, you've, you've served in two newsrooms and, and part of why you're such a valuable part of our, our, the conversation about democracy and civility is you've worked in politics, you've worked in media at a very high level and you've got a big heart. And I have to say I, I was thinking this morning and preparing to talk to you. There really aren't very many people who've done both those things. High level in politics, high level in media and a big heart because most people in those businesses don't have that and very few people go back and forth. So you're very valuable. And you've served in two newsrooms that are nationally significant, Washington Post and Politico. I don't want to single them out and say they're the worst actors because they're not. But they're not great for these very issues. Explain how the culture of all big news organizations, including Politico and the Washington Post, how the profit motive and the habits and practices of editors and reporters contributes to a lack of civility.
- [70:09]
Fred Ryan
Well, I mean one thing is, you know, there's a rush to be first and sometimes when you're, when you're rushed to be first, you're not accurate and sometimes what that inaccuracy can lead to a lot of misunderstandings and anger from the part of people who are receiving. So that's one thing that's important. I think the second thing is, as those organizations do and a number do well, is make sure there's a clear separation between the opinion side of the House and the reporting side of the House. You've seen the numbers. I have. The level of trust in news organizations is at an all time low right now. And as we go into the AI era, which we're in it already, it's going to be more and more important for us to have news sources that we can trust. And I think it's going to be some of these established news outlets and some that are still in formation. They're going to be places we go to try to find out what's true, what's accurate in the world. I would point out, I know you and other nationally known journalists have faced this is when I was in both of those news organizations, the doxing, the attacks on the journalists were terrible. We had a journalist killed, we had journalists bullets shot through the door of their house. We had on social media, especially towards female journalists, it is just toxic. So that's one of the reasons that, I mean I've seen it in its, the incivility and the damage it does. But I also, when I was had the chance to work for President Reagan in the White House, I saw how he could reach across the aisle with, with people of the opposite political party who are also like minded and trying to find common ground like Tip o', Neill, that famous Tip o' Neill, Ronald Reagan relationship. And they agreed on a, disagreed on a lot of things, probably more than they agreed on by far. But they were able to find the areas where they could agree and get things done. And that was because neither of them, just using that tip on the Ronald Reagan example, they disagreed about as far as you could. You had a conservative Republican governor from the west and a liberal Democratic speaker from the east, and they would still get together at night and have a drink and tell Irish stories.
- [72:17]
Mark Kalper
They would, they would. But there also was, people forget, before Donald Trump, there was demonization of Ronald Reagan and demonization of George Bush 1 and George Bush 2. This is not brand new. And, and for all the romanticization of President Reagan and no doubt it was a different era and there was more, more comedy and more civility. It pretty rough stuff regarding Iran Contra, regarding his career as an actor and whether he was qualified to be president. You know that and, and, and, and so it's not a new problem now. What is new is the current age. And you and I have talked largely in abstractions. We've only mentioned President Trump once. I, I find in trying to convince people to move towards civility, that there's two big camps, right? There's the camp that says it's all Donald Trump's fault because Donald Trump has violated norms and he's broken the law and he's, he's, he's profiteered and, and he's done all these horrible things, all his fault. And then, and then people on the other side will say, amongst the other things, the media is biased against us. The media is so biased. The prosecutors are so biased. There's this liberal establishment, deep state. It's all their fault. And all President Trump's doing is trying to fight back. How do we get beyond that current dynamic, which in my experience, in the moment we're in it currently, it's the biggest barrier to get people to lay down their arms on one side or the other of that divide.
- [73:44]
Fred Ryan
Well, I mean, as you point out with President Reagan back when he was running and since then, this is a problem that is, is not new. It's been evolving. In fact, some of the research we've done, some people feel it goes all the way back to the Vietnam era, where there was a distrust in institutions and Americans were deeply divided. Others point to the Supreme Court confirmation cases. You know, Sandra Day O' Connor was confirmed 99 to 0. Anthony Kennedy, who turns 90 today, by the way, he was confirmed 97 to 0. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, 96 to 3. That was a time. But things started to turn. Supreme Court confirmations evolved to what they are now, where they're Strictly party line votes. So that contributed to it. And then most recently the kind of the era of wokeness versus the era of maga. So I think it's important to not say this is just a problem that popped up now, but something that's been growing. I think we're in an environment now where, as you see in Capitol Hill and elsewhere, it's, it's almost a case where elected officials determine their position on something based on how the other party is on. And so if someone so is in favor, I have to be against. And that's not a, you know, that's a, it's become a little bit of, not a little bit. Probably a lot of a zero sum game.
- [75:11]
Mark Kalper
Right.
- [75:11]
Fred Ryan
It's not enough for, for me to win, you have to lose. And we've got to get back and even as this was going on at previous administrations and now find a way for both sides to go away with a win. In the business world, you know, a good deal is a win win. Both sides can go back. Nobody wants to be the one who says I got nothing here.
- [75:32]
Mark Kalper
If Jeff Bezos brought you back to the Post or you brought back to Politico now, what would you differently than you did at the time to try to promote civility in conjunction with, in concert with the mission of a major news organization?
- [75:46]
Fred Ryan
Well, one thing I would do, and I think, and this is a small point, but it comes back to what you said about commenting on social media is in the comments section, people will write a very thoughtful piece and then there'll be a thoughtful conversation in the comments and then somebody will come on and say something like, you deserve to die.
- [76:06]
Mark Kalper
Yeah.
- [76:06]
Fred Ryan
And that conversation just ends right there. So one thing I would say, this is very tactical, but just I think anybody who comments ought to be signed in under the name that they subscribe. So they're doing. And because going back to social media, part of the problem there is so much is anonymous. People will say things when they're anonymous. If they wouldn't possibly say face to
- [76:29]
Mark Kalper
face, I'd make them put their name and their picture.
- [76:32]
Fred Ryan
Yeah, absolutely. So that was, that's one small thing. But I, you know, I think there's, it's, it's very important. A lot of these arguments that we're having now in the divisions in the country occur when we're acting off opinion rather than fact. And that's one of the things we put in, in the, in the book as well is that know whether your, your argument is grounded on opinion or it's grounded on facts. And those news organizations and others, their mission is going to become even more critical as we go forward because it's so easy to create false news at scale. And as we know, false news travels faster than the truth. So it's a burden and an obligation, I think, on everyone in the media now to make sure that they are that trusted source in an information. In an era where there's so much misinformation and disinformation coming at us.
- [77:22]
Carl's Jr. Advertiser
Yeah.
- [77:22]
Mark Kalper
Always important to ask this question because people wonder who funds the center on Civility and Democracy.
- [77:28]
Fred Ryan
It's all we're a 501C3. We have many, many donors from across the country. It's part of the Reagan foundation and Institute. We've got from foundations to individuals. In fact, we've got a program next week, by the way. We've got talking about modeling good behavior and aiming the Future. We have 100 students that were picked from 85 universities across the country who are interested in exactly the problem that you and I are discussing how we move forward in a more civil, respectful discussion in our democracy. We've got Supreme Court justice speaking, Senate members of the Senate media organizations, a couple of our buddies, Jim Vande Hei is gonna be here. Talk about Axios perspective and Sam Fais from C SPAN and Steve Hayes from Dispatch. And then we have sports because that's one area that we haven't talked much about, Mark. But sports in this environment where we're so divided seems to be one of the areas that we come together. You can go to a sporting event and the the most woke person sitting next to the most right wing person will be cheering for the same team. So it's a unifier and it's also an example on the field where athletes and competitive sport athletes, they follow the rules, they respect their opponent because they want to play again, they honor the refs and it's an example for our political life, maybe a little more of that. So we have a whole panel on, on sports rivalry where we've got some NFL former NFL players and announcers and college students. So those are all things that can be done and that we are trying to do to move this forward.
- [79:08]
Mark Kalper
Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, this is not touchy feely. This is not pie in the sky. This is not silly idealism. This is the stuff of America right now. Fred, Fred Group center on civilian Democracy What I'm doing a two way. What I do here, we can solve this one and guess what? It doesn't require higher taxes or big government. Spending. It just requires all of us to take back the country, to take back the national town square for robust disagreement, for conversation, for comparison, for questioning, but also for civility. And Fred, the country owes you and the center a great debt of gratitude because you're trying to actually grapple with it rather than to profit from what's wrong. And again, thousands of people have already gotten the handbook. You should, too. Tell people again, Fred, how can they get the Civility?
- [79:51]
Fred Ryan
Go to civilityhandbook.com and we'll send you a free copy. And we'll send you a package if you're a teacher and you want it for your, for your classroom. And Mark, thanks for what you're doing in this space. I know you've been somebody who's been in the forefront and appreciate all you're doing. And thanks for giving me this this time today.
- [80:08]
Mark Kalper
Fred, thank you. Congratulations on the book. And ladies and gentlemen, again, be part of the solution here. Get the handbook, read it, and then give it to someone you love. Or better, give it to someone you don't love. I won't say hate. Fred, thank you. Grateful to you. Great to see you.
- [80:20]
Fred Ryan
Thanks, Mark. Great to see you.
- [80:21]
Mark Kalper
All right, that's it for today's program. We'll be back next week on Tuesday. Hope everybody has a great weekend as we gear up for a couple new episodes next week. Don't forget, tell your friends and family not just about the civility handbook, but about how to become Nexters by subscribing to the program on YouTube wherever you. And they get their podcasts so everybody within the sound of my voice can know what's coming next up. Have a great weekend, everybody.