Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: Fact-Checking the Fact Checker: Debating Media Bias About Trump and Biden with Glenn Kessler
Release Date: August 7, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin, host Mark Halperin delves into the pervasive issue of media bias, particularly focusing on the dominant media's portrayal of political figures like Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Joining him is Glenn Kessler, the former editor and chief writer of the Washington Post's renowned Fact Checker feature. The conversation navigates through the complexities of media bias, fact-checking integrity, and the broader implications for American democracy.

Mark Halperin’s Monologue: The Problem of Media Bias

Timestamp: [00:02]

Mark Halperin opens the discussion by expressing his frustration with the media's perceived liberal bias, especially in its coverage of Republican figures like Donald Trump. He asserts that the dominant media's antagonistic stance towards Trump has, paradoxically, fueled Trump's political success. Halperin criticizes the media for what he describes as "professional dereliction of duty," likening journalists to professionals in other fields who would face severe consequences for similar misconduct.

Notable Quote:
"The dominant media's bias against the Republicans generally, and Donald Trump in particular, has helped Donald Trump as much as anything else politically."
— Mark Halperin [00:04]

He introduces Glenn Kessler, highlighting Kessler's role in creating the Fact Checker feature and his recent departure from the Washington Post. Halperin emphasizes that Kessler's work, particularly the infamous "Pinocchios" awarded for false statements, gained significant attention and sparked discussions about media impartiality.

Discussion with Glenn Kessler

1. Readership and Perceived Bias Timestamp: [30:47]

Halperin questions why a significant portion of the American populace perceives the Washington Post as heavily biased against conservatives and Donald Trump. Kessler attributes the Post's liberal readership to its geographical base in Washington D.C., a region known for its Democratic leanings due to the federal government's presence.

Notable Quote:
"Half the country believes that the media is liberally biased, and they believe that it's insidious, and they believe that it plays a massive role in the outcome of our elections."
— Mark Halperin [05:00]

However, Halperin challenges Kessler, arguing that the Post's expansion into national and international digital platforms likely diversified its audience. Kessler maintains that while the core readership remains liberal, the Post's comprehensive coverage strives to maintain objectivity and fairness.

2. Integrity of the Fact Checker Timestamp: [33:09]

Halperin probes into the effectiveness and impartiality of the Fact Checker, particularly questioning whether it scrutinized Republican statements more harshly than those of Democrats. Kessler rebuffs the notion of intentional bias, asserting that the Fact Checker aimed to hold all figures accountable, regardless of political affiliation.

Notable Quote:
"The ethos of the newspaper is to be critical and scrutinize and hold account whoever is in power."
— Glenn Kessler [35:13]

Despite Kessler's defense, Halperin presses on the perception among conservatives that the Post systematically undermines Republican figures. Kessler acknowledges occasional mistakes but attributes them to "incompetence" rather than conspiratorial bias.

3. Attempts to Reach Conservative Audiences Timestamp: [63:05]

Halperin challenges Kessler on his substack commentary about the Washington Post's struggles to attract conservative readers without alienating its liberal base. He questions why, despite acknowledging the Post's liberal audience, Kessler doesn't advocate more aggressively for ideological diversity within the newsroom.

Kessler admits the difficulty of altering the Post's demographic due to its entrenched liberal readership and the fragmented news landscape. He suggests that perceptions of bias are often pre-existing among audiences, making it challenging for the Post to change these views without compromising its journalistic standards.

Notable Quote:
"People come to the news coverage with, with a preexisting bias that they are going to be against Republicans and for Democrats. But I would argue that is not the case."
— Glenn Kessler [67:52]

4. Recommendations for Media Organizations Timestamp: [63:05]

In response to Halperin's hypothetical scenario where the Post acknowledges its liberal bias and seeks to appeal to a broader audience, Kessler expresses skepticism about the feasibility of such a transition. He highlights the fragmented nature of modern media consumption and questions the Post's ability to compete with specialized right-leaning outlets like Fox News or Newsmax.

Kessler emphasizes the importance of taking all political ideas seriously and maintaining high journalistic standards. However, he concedes that altering the paper’s foundational audience without losing its core readership poses a significant challenge.

Concluding Remarks

Mark Halperin concludes the episode by reiterating his concerns about the dominant media's bias and its implications for political polarization and democratic trust. He calls for a national debate on media impartiality and urges media organizations to introspect and address inherent biases. Halperin underscores the need for media to strive for fairness to uphold the integrity of journalism and democracy.

Notable Quote:
"I want a national debate about it. I want these organizations specifically that they've written about to soul search and ask questions whether these guys are telling the truth."
— Mark Halperin [70:50]

Glenn Kessler, reflecting on his extensive career, acknowledges the challenges of overcoming entrenched perceptions of bias but remains optimistic about maintaining journalistic integrity.

Key Takeaways

• Perceived Media Bias: A significant portion of the American public views dominant media outlets like the Washington Post as liberal-biased, influencing political outcomes and contributing to polarization.

• Fact-Checking Integrity: While the Fact Checker aimed for impartiality, perceptions of bias persist, especially among conservative audiences who feel disproportionately targeted.

• Audience Demographics: The Washington Post's liberal-leaning readership is attributed to its geographical base and historical editorial choices, complicating efforts to attract a more balanced audience.

• Media Evolution Challenges: The fragmented media landscape, with the rise of specialized and ideologically distinct outlets, poses challenges for traditional media in maintaining broad, balanced audiences without compromising journalistic standards.

• Call to Action: There is a pressing need for media organizations to engage in self-reflection, foster ideological diversity, and strive for fairness to restore public trust and uphold democratic values.

Final Thoughts

This episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin offers a nuanced exploration of media bias, challenging both media practitioners and consumers to critically assess the impartiality of news coverage. Through an incisive dialogue with Glenn Kessler, the podcast underscores the complexities of maintaining journalistic integrity in a polarized political landscape and calls for concerted efforts to bridge the ideological divide.

For more insightful discussions and in-depth analyses, subscribe to Next Up with Mark Halperin on your preferred podcast platform or watch the episodes on YouTube.