Gavin Newsom Opens Up About Dyslexia, 2028 "Veto" Power, and Past Marriage, Plus Trump's Strategic Iran Victory

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: Gavin Newsom Opens Up About Dyslexia, 2028 "Veto" Power, and Past Marriage, Plus Trump's Strategic Iran Victory
Date: March 3, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin
Guest: Gavin Newsom (Governor of California, Author)
Episode Focus: A revealing conversation with Gavin Newsom about his memoir, personal struggles (notably dyslexia), family dynamics, presidential ambitions, and an analysis of President Trump’s Iran war strategy.

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Episode Overview

Mark Halperin presents a two-part episode:

1. Monologue Analysis – A deep dive into the Iran conflict under President Trump, wins, risks, and political reactions
2. In-depth Interview – An honest, occasionally vulnerable discussion with Governor Gavin Newsom about his new memoir ("Young Man in a Hurry"), childhood hardship, learning disability, his first marriage, and the role of his family in his presidential decision-making.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. The Iran War: Strategic and Political Analysis

[03:14–19:48]

What’s Going Well for the Trump Administration

• Element of Surprise: Despite military buildup, Trump executed a surprise attack, degrading Iran’s command/control structure (e.g., the killing of the Ayatollah and top leaders).
• Strong U.S.-Israel Alliance: Close cooperation with Netanyahu, including intelligence and cyber warfare.
• Limited U.S./Israeli Losses: Successful missile defense; major hits to Iranian assets.
• Support from Some Foreign/Regional Players: Russia and China staying publicly quiet; Gulf States not siding with Iran.
• Unexpected Political Support: Prominent figures like Jeb Bush publicly back Trump’s action (12:00).
  • “[Jeb Bush:] We honor the incredible bravery and selflessness of the servicemen…We applaud President Donald Trump...” (12:00)
• Democrats Struggle to Find Unified Response: Media and politicians largely hostile, but not always coherent.
• Public Cautiously Supportive: Polls split but not disastrous.

What’s Going Poorly

• No Clear Endgame: Concerns over lack of post-conflict plan and risk of “forever war.”
• Uncertain Duration and Logistics: Questions about military endurance and supplies.
• Political and Public Backlash Risks: War less popular than Trump himself; economic volatility and rising oil prices.
• Drone Warfare Complexity: Iranian capacity underestimated.
• Spread of Conflict: Iran striking other regional countries; possible regional escalation.
• Persistent Criticism from Left and MAGA Base: E.g. Former VP Harris (13:45):
  • “[Kamala Harris:] Donald Trump has dragged us into a war the American people do not want…” (13:45)
• Doubts about Trump’s Communication: Criticism that his case for war isn’t consistently or clearly made.

Political Stakes

• Outcome will define political reputations—Trump’s, the Democrats’, and U.S. standing.
  • “If this mission ends up a failure, then the president will pay a political price. If it ends up being a success…I think a lot of Democrats are going to look foolish.” (13:01)

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II. Interview with Gavin Newsom

[25:29–62:51]

A. Writing the Memoir – Motivation & Process

• Not Just a Campaign Book: Newsom insists writing was spurred by publisher Anne Godoff’s push to make it a real memoir, focusing on family and formative experiences.
  • “She sort of force-shifted this thing back into a memoir. I had to go back over…dive deeper into my history and my past.” (27:10)
• Therapeutic/Cathartic Experience: Motivated by a wish to leave something lasting and honest for his children.
  • “It’s not a sanitized version of a public servant. It’s me scrutinizing myself...” (27:10)
• Collaboration with Mark Arax: Pushed him to go deeper, avoid politician-speak.

B. Family Dynamics & Dual Worlds

• Stark Class Divide: Explains split childhood between mother’s struggle (working 2–3 jobs) and father’s access to San Francisco elite (Gettys, private planes).
  • “My mom worked two or three jobs her entire life...My dad never made a lot of money...He absolutely opened those doors...to the Getty world. That duality has shaped so much of the perception of me.” (33:42)
• Impact on Psyche: Dual upbringing led to anxiety, ‘imposter syndrome,’ but also ability to walk in two worlds.
• Love and Loss:
  • Mother’s Love: “She didn’t have to say she loved me. She demonstrated every single day. And so, no, I never felt a second that she didn’t love me.” (37:13)
  • Father’s Distance: “He was distant and I didn’t feel that when we were kids, quite the contrary. I felt a longing for him.” (39:11)
  • Parents Never Met His Kids: Profound sense of generational loss, reflected in his dedication.

C. Dyslexia – Personal Struggle, Public Reaction

• Reading as a Challenge and Superpower:
  • Details his need to underline, transcribe passages by hand, can’t read speeches off the page. Calls dyslexia a ‘superpower’ with discipline.
  • “If you ever lend me a book, ...I have to underline. ... That’s the process...This is the gift of dyslexia...” (41:34)
• Media Mockery: Newsom frustrated his struggle isn’t seen as inspirational (in contrast to coverage of Biden’s stutter).
  • “Joe Biden stuttered and there’s 100 articles about overcoming adversity...People are mocking this [mine].” (44:40)
  • Halperin notes online reactions split between doubting his claims and saying this disqualifies him from running for president.

D. First Marriage to Kimberly Guilfoyle

• Reflections on the Relationship:
  • “We had a great relationship. It was just...more a partnership in the context of a friendship...She was a young woman in a hurry. I was a young man in a hurry, and our career paths deviated.” (49:35)
• Kids’ Discovery:
  • His children learned about the previous marriage via the internet, leading to an emotional family intervention.
  • “All kids had an intervention with me in my office...I had to explain all this to them.“ (51:54)

E. Scrutiny, Authenticity, and the “Veto Power” on a 2028 Run

• Perceived as Distant or Aloof:
  • Newsom acknowledges shyness and use of a “mask” early in life, but says he’s “on the other side” now, more transparent and risk-taking.
  • “I’m still that kid in the back of the classroom praying that the teacher doesn’t call on me.” (54:16)
• Family’s Role in Presidential Ambition:
  • Discusses his children’s ambivalence about public life and explicitly says his family has real veto power.
    • “If one kid or one spouse says, I don’t want you to run, is that it?” (59:19)
    • Newsom: “Yeah, I can’t run. I can’t run in the face of their opposition. Then I’m running away from everything...So your answer is yes. They all have a veto. Every single one of those kids have a veto.” (59:25)
• On Critics and Political Attacks:
  • “They want to take me out. And you don’t even know the half of it... But, you know what? Right now, the reason I’m leaning in is because I have a why and it’s burning.” (59:52)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Memoir’s Purpose:
  • “This is a book...for my kids. That dedication is intentional. I said, may you continue this story. It’s the book I wish my parents had written.” (32:31)
• On Dyslexia:
  • “The gift is a superpower because it allows you, with discipline...it gives you the ability to absorb a lot, but also allows you to be much more flexible.” (42:35)
• On Family and Running for President:
  • “If one...says, I don’t want you to run, is that it?...Yeah, I can’t run. I can’t run in the face of their opposition.” (59:14–59:25)
• On Adversity & Authenticity:
  • “I’ve gotten knocked down over and over and over and over again. And this notion of resilience, not perfection, is really...what I’ve discovered in myself. And I hope it’s what people understand when they read the book.” (45:27)

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Significant Timestamps

• 03:14 – Halperin’s analysis begins on Iran conflict
• 12:00 – Jeb Bush offers surprising support to Trump (clip played)
• 13:45 – Kamala Harris’s sharp criticism of the war (clip played)
• 25:29 – Interview with Newsom begins
• 27:10 – Motivation for writing memoir explained
• 33:42 – Newsom describes “dual life” between parents
• 36:43 – Discussion of love and emotional impact of parental relationships
• 41:34 – In-depth on dyslexia and reading process
• 44:40 – Newsom/press comparison to Biden’s stutter
• 49:35 – Newsom speaks openly about marriage to Guilfoyle
• 51:54 – Story of children’s “intervention” after learning of first marriage
• 54:16 – Addressing perception he’s "distant and inscrutable"
• 59:04–61:10 – Family veto power on 2028 presidential run

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Tone and Language

• Candid and Vulnerable: Newsom is less defensive, more self-reflective than typical politicians. Halperin’s tone is direct but respectful and probing.
• Mix of Analytical and Personal: The first half is geopolitical analysis; the second, emotional biography.
• Wry, Occasionally Self-Deprecating Humor: Both men lightly tease each other; Newsom pokes fun at his "mask" and history.
• Engaged, At Times Empathetic: Halperin notes the audience’s skepticism and acts as both advocate and skeptic, asking pointed questions about Newsom's accountability and authenticity.

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Social Media & Listener Reaction

• Major Issues:
  • Newsom’s dyslexia: skepticism, accusations of lying, or doubts about his qualifications.
  • Ongoing partisan hostility—being rooted against on platforms like X (Twitter), regardless of content.
• Affirmation: Some users see Newsom’s overcoming of adversity as heroic, but these are outnumbered by the detractors in Halperin’s reporting.

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Conclusion

This episode of “Next Up with Mark Halperin” offers:

• An unusually open window into Gavin Newsom’s family history, struggles with dyslexia, divorce, and authentic self.
• A clear and nuanced critique of the current Iran conflict, separating spin from substance in real time.
• A memorable exchange on what constitutes authenticity and the human toll/benefits of ambition and public scrutiny.
• A serious, consequential conversation for anyone interested in the future of the Democratic Party, the presidency, or American politics—a must-listen for voters and political watchers alike.

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Transcript

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[Mark Halperin]

hey everybody. Welcome to a wartime Next up.

I'm Mark Kalperin, editor in chief of

the live interactive video platform 2way, and your host here. At a time when America and Israel and its allies are dealing with a

pretty complicated situation, to say the least.

Grateful to all of you for tuning in.

Have a great interview today.

Not a bad Iran with the Governor of California.

Very excited to show you the full interview that we recently did with Gavin

Newsom, part of his book tour. We talk about the book.

It's called Young man in a Hurry, A Memoir of Discovery. The conversation went inside the four corners

of the book, but also beyond.

Talked about the book in an honest way and also the complexity of his relationship with his parents, the reality of

his first marriage and how his kids

from his second marriage have responded to that recently or responded to that in the past. And then about the question of running for president. You know that he's talked on this program before about the reluctance that some members of his family have to see him run for president, and I've been outspoken. I'm the only one I know in

politics or media who said I I think in the end, a good chance he doesn't run. And we talk about the question does, does his family have a veto power over his running? If one of his kids or his

wife say, I don't want you to run, will he consider that absolute and not run?

Most people I know cynical and say,

oh, of course he'd run. He's a politician. He'll come back and say, oh, everybody's on board. My family's so excited. We shall see.

And you'll hear what he said about that. And I think you'll see a side

of Governor Newsom that is rarely seen

and for many of you maybe never seen. A lot of you don't like him,

a lot of you like him.

But I think you'll get a better

sense of what he's like from the conversation.

Very excited to share it with you. But before we do that, my reported

monologue on Iran and fast moving story. You know, I love this format.

I love the video podcast format coming

to you on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

But in a story that moves like this, it's kind of difficult.

I want to tell you what I think and what I've been hearing from my sources. I spent seven hours on Saturday at Mar A Lago, kind of a fluke.

I certainly wasn't there because I knew

that the war was going to start. But I think I was the only reporter there.

And I got to see the president moving around Mar A Lago. I got to see and talk to

some of his senior aides.

And so I have stuff to tell you.

But and of course, I've been covering the story since it began.

But this is a snapshot, folks. Nobody can tell you how this is going to end.

No, there are no verdicts. But what I'm going to give you, not the final judgment because it's too early for that. But here I'm going to give you my moment in time scorecard from talking to lots of Republicans, Democrat national security officials, people in Israel and in Europe about how they see things.

Okay?

Now even the best informed people are going to have to deal with the reality that the fog of war is a reality for anybody. I get calls from people in the administration who don't know what's going on and want to know what I know about what's going on. Things can change fast. Things that are true now may not be true tomorrow. Things I say now may not be true by the time you hear this. So have to remember that war is fast moving and confusing. Second, there's a Distinction, unfortunately for the country, I'd say sometimes, at least between what Donald Trump. What's good for Donald Trump politically and what's good for the country. Right. Good for the world. Be nice if there was a full overlap there. But some of the things that are going well or poorly for the president and his team only pertain to them in terms of their domestic politics. The midterms polling. Right. That's not necessarily always going to be the same as what's good for the war effort. And then lastly, for anybody, even if you're like me doing your own reporting, a lot of the information that I rely on comes from the media. And the media is, we've talked about this so many times here. The media is biased against Donald Trump. Right. They're biased against Republican presidents in general, including during, maybe especially during times of war. So there's this not been handled perfectly. And I am a big advocate of the media holding presidents accountable always, especially during times of war. But the coverage really does emphasize the negative. And so as you think about what's going well, what's going poorly, you have to look a little bit harder to see what's going well and to put it in context. And the reality is just a few days in, the list of what's going well is quite impressive and important to understanding where this is headed, because where this is headed will be determined by facts on the ground in Iran as much, really more than anything else. So in that respect, the operation, the element of surprise, the president, very clever. Even though there was the big military build up there, the president was very clever in making people think, well, the telltale signs of a military action may not mean it's happening when it did. And that element of surprise is part of why it's been so effective, destroying not just killing the ayatollah, but other leading figures in the government. The command and control structure there has been degraded. There's no doubt. It's hard to run a counteroffensive when you've lost your top leaders. The US Military alliance with Israel has been extremely strong. Limited loss of, of human life, of other, of equipment on the part of the US And Israel, a big loss of life and, and equipment on the part of the Iranians. The missile defense in the region in Israel has been very effective. Some missiles have gotten through. There's been some loss of life on both the Israeli side and the American side. But for the most part, that incredible technology developed with Israel in the United States has been successful. And the Gulf states use aversions as well, okay. The other thing that I think super important is about the rhetoric, a lot of criticism, we'll get to that, of how the administration's defended the war. But you've seen already people believing what I believe the president to be true, and I reported this in the last day.

This can end without regime change, or

it could end with regime change.

But I think people, some people, it's

gotten through to some people, the argument

that says even if there's no regime change, this can be a success.

The destruction of Iran's nuclear capability, their missile capability, their, their sponsor of terrorism capability, their navy, the elimination of their top government and military leaders. The president would like regime change.

He's made that clear.

But just doing those things for many people would be a success. And I think that's an important marker to have put down, even though a lot of people in the media, a lot of Democrats and some Republicans are obsessed with this question of does regime change come with this operation or not? Here at home, we've saw a horrible incident in Austin, Texas, that may or

may not have been connected to the,

the, the military operation. But most people in America so far, knock wood, thank goodness, are safe. Same in Israel. We saw one of the bunkers, a public bunker that people maybe weren't using correctly, saw a loss of life there, but mostly Israelis have been safe in their bunkers. The relationship, another thing that's going well between the United States and Israel, between Donald Trump and Benjamin and Netanyahu, that couple, that duo planned this operation, very aligned, and they've stayed aligned, at least up until now. And that alignment, and that operation includes the military side, but it also includes stuff we don't see. Intelligence gathering, special ops on the ground, assassinations, cyber warfare, other, other measures being done right below the radar. But maybe we'll never know. I'm sure we'll never know about some of it, but that's, that operation continues effectively. What's the dog that's not barking? Russia and China, in the past, when the United States has dealt with this kind of situation historically, China and, or Russia have, you know, made a lot of noise, made threats, come to the, come to the aid of the country. The United States is at odds with not happening here publicly. And I have no indication it's happening behind the scenes at the same, at

the other side, at the same time,

Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Egypt, these other countries are not siding decisively or at all with the Iranians. That's, that's, that's a success for the president. Limited pushback on assassinations, you know, you're not really supposed to assassinate the leaders of another country. And, and these, these, these killings of the Ayatollah and others, these weren't accidents of war. They targeted them. And, and I would have thought there'd be more conversation about that. Whether it's moral, whether it's a good idea for the United States to assassinate a foreign leader. Good for the President. I think that that hasn't been discussed. Capitol Hill is holding. They're going to be votes on restricting the President's capacity to fight this war. All indications from my sources is that won't pass a lot of discussion in the media about MAGA and that this is the time when they're going to split. The politics of this are, are really something. There are people in the Democratic Party who are for this, although mostly the politicians are against it. More complicated on the Republican side, there are a lot of Republicans who are for this. Again, a lot of the politicians are for it because of their loyalty to President Trump and because they think dealing with Iran is the right thing. But there are prominent MAGA voices that are against it. No doubt what's been successful for the President so far and then we'll turn to what's. What's gone poorly is there are some MAGA voices against it. But, but a lot of MAGA voices, including the Vice President, United States who are for it, and the establishment wing of the Republican Party, whether you want to call them neocons or establishment or traditional hawks, they've been for it. And the President now has picked up support from some unlikely quarters. This is about maybe the last person I, I've ever covered who I thought would be for Donald Trump. This is Jeb Bush in a video he made. He's been, he's been hawkish on Iran. This is Jeb Bush who ran against Donald Trump in 2016 from a political family that has no, no, no love lost for, for Donald Trump. Here's Jeb Bush speaking in support of the Iran operation. IS S9, please.

We honor the incredible bravery and selflessness of the servicemen of the United States Armed Forces and the Israel Defense Forces. We applaud the courage and leadership of our Commander in Chief, President Donald Trump, in steadfast partnership with our Israeli friends as the United States and Israel confronts the forces of tyranny and terror.

So Donald Trump has Jeb Bush's support. He is supportive of the congressional Republican leadership of some prominent Democrats of people in the United States who are very hawkish on defending Israel. Public opinion polls are split and mostly negative. I think it's premature for the president

to have to be concerned about those.

There's no election anytime soon. But you can find lots of MAGA voices who are negative or skeptical. But public opinion in general from the president's side is supportive.

On the other side, I think the

president's benefited from the lack of Democrats finding the right pitch on this, with few exceptions, John Fetterman's one.

I think the Democrats have, have spoken

out about this in such a negative way. Now, if this mission ends up a failure, then the president will pay a political price. That's the way the world works, and his party will. But if it ends up being a success, I think a lot of Democrats are going to look foolish for having been so negative about it. You know, similar refrains. President didn't have a plan, didn't have an exit strategy. It was a war of Trump choice, not a war of necessity. It's going to cost a lot of money, going to cost a lot of human lives. And just a general characterization of Donald Trump as being incompetent.

Here's one of many Democrats almost universally

in public life who have spoken out against this operation. This is former Vice President Harris S5, please.

[Kamala Harris]

Donald Trump has dragged us into a war the American people do not want. He has put American troops in harm's way. I unequivocally oppose this war of choice, and everyone should. And the bottom line when it comes down to it, is that if we want to stop Donald Trump with this random decision that he has arrived at, then Congress must act and Congress must act immediately. The American people do not want our sons and daughters to go into this unauthorized war of choice. And I unequivocally oppose it.

[Mark Halperin]

So, Kamala, Harry speaks for tens of

millions there, there's no doubt.

But at the same time, again, I

think it's been good for the president, just a matter of the way politics works, that the Democratic Party is coming off as very skeptical, very, about this operation, very hostile to it. And if it ends up working well, that'll, that'll be good for him. And if it ends up getting poor, going poorly, he'll take all the responsibility for it from the Democrats.

So that's, that's all the stuff that I think is going well.

A lot of it that's good for America. Some of it's more good for the president than for America as a whole.

But some things are going poorly.

And it's, it's important to point those out, to be honest about them and to to make it clear where, where we stand.

There is no clear end game.

Right? There's no post conflict stabilization plan. And Iran could spiral into catastrophe. You've seen other presidents say, no, no, no, this is a limited operation. And then you've got mission creep. You've got one of those forever war fears that you see throughout the maga. You see it on the left. A country does not want a forever war. It's got Donald Trump elected. It helped J.D. vance get elected to the Senate. And so you could imagine a situation here spiraling out of control where the, the only answer to avoid huge loss of life would be American forces on

the ground, boots on the ground.

I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think the President will do it under literally any circumstances. But that is something that people are talking about. And the President and Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, egged that on by in the last 24 hours. Neither of both of them refused to rule that out. Boots on the ground spooks a lot of people. And so I would say that maybe they were saying it just to, just to leave the Iranians guessing. But that, that to me, this question about what's going on in the future of this and how it will end, that's one thing that's not going as well as it might.

Credibility questions.

You saw the President, a couple of videos, Caroline Levitt, Pete Hegseth and others, now Marco Rubio explaining the rationale for the war. I actually am more sympathetic to how they've explained it than others. The fundamental reason for this is, as I've reported, the President does not want to end his term without having dealt with Iran as a nuclear power, a missile technology power, sponsor of terror. And he's taken this opportunity to do it now because of what happened with the suppression of the attempts of the people of Iran to rise up and the failure to negotiate with the Iranians on the nuclear program, which the President's team thought decided the Iranians weren't good, good partners, weren't sincere partners in trying to negotiate. Okay, so the rationale for the war in my view is pretty clear. And there's sub rationales. Right. It's not just one thing. But I'll say again, what's not going well is not just in the press and not just with the Democrats, but even some Republicans who are supportive of this operation and its goals have said to me, you know, they're not really explaining it in a way that's consistent and clear and compelling. The Iranian Drone capacity turns out, their capabilities turn out to be stronger than some people in the government, the US Government expected. And that's potentially a problem. Drone warfare, of course, now is a big part of warfare. The US And Israel are using a lot of drones to go after Iran and to defend. But that's something that's not going as planned as hoped. I'm told that grappling with the drones is a complexity here. The question of endurance, of how long those carriers, U.S. carriers, can stay in the waters off Iran, how long the necessary ammunitions will be there for missile defense and other operations. You can't say that's not going well yet because it's early and those things aren't a problem yet. But the clock's ticking and a lot of the military planners, a lot of the political planners are worried about that. When the President says, we could be at this for four weeks, five weeks, there's some question in some planners minds about whether that's actually a sustainable and doable thing. The conflict has spread geographically. That's not great either. Not a surprise, but Iran has started to hit other countries in the region. You see air travel halted throughout the region. Now there's an upside to them having hit these other countries and loss of life has been limited. Thank goodness it's brought these other countries into the conflict on the side of the United States and Israel. But the spreading of the conflict means the United States and Israel have to worry about higher geographical area. Israel, their global image was not great before this. Their global. Their image in the United States was not great. That's a problem because I don't know that this is going to improve Israel's image. We've already taken, America's already taken some casualties. The price tag is already high. It will rise higher. We know that A big part of the reason that two reasons that Americans don't like the forever wars, loss of American life, spending of American treasure. And again, when the President talks about four or five weeks, there's going to be a massive amount of money, billions and billions, as Carl Sagan would say, to spend on this. And that risks a political backlash and unpopularity. And it's very hard even if you're only using air power. It's very hard to sustain a conflict if the operation's unpopular. The volatility of oil prices is also something that's not going well. Although again, I'll say as a caveat,

it could be worse.

This administration has found various ways, tangible and intangible, to avoid volatility at a high level, even when they do volatile things like on tariffs and the previous Iran strike, Venezuela. But there is volatility in oil. Gas prices have been affected. That's not great for the President. And then the broader question which energy prices relates to is, is economic volatility and what's going to happen here if, if supply chains are disruptive, oil prices go up, etc. Polling is not great. You know, not that long ago, George Bush in the Gulf War, George H.W. bush, his approval rating went into the 90s. I don't know that there's anything Donald Trump could do to have his poll numbers go up that high with the American people because of the polarization. Maybe if he repelled the Martian invasion successfully, but even then I think Democrats would say he had projected intergalactic weakness. So there's no rallying around the President in any big way. If you look at the polling, you know, the President's operation is less popular than he is. And if it goes super well, you could see him maybe going up into the 50s, but I doubt higher than that. Donald Trump, though, is not going to tell the story here. What's going to tell the story of this operation are the people of Iran, the elites who will decide who ends up ruling the country in the wake of the elimination of so much of the leadership. Will they be just the heir to the current government? Will they be changed in their political system and then they're the public? You know, unfortunately, there's a 40 day mourning period right now for Ayatollah Khomeini that dampens the prospect of any immediate political uprising. It's hard, we're told, to go out in the streets. We heard this on two ways on, on Monday night from John Fowler of international intrigue. This 40 day period of mourning makes it hard for somebody to go out in the street and oppose the government. What, what Trump would like, and he makes reference to this in private conversations, is what happened in Venezuela, maybe not a wholesale replacement of the Iran Iranian government immediately, but a Venezuela sonata scenario. Whereas the President said he fired a couple people and replaced them, but kept the rest of the staff, there's a leadership vacuum now in Iran. We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes fully. But what we do know is the best case for the people of Iran and for the President, United States is to have a government there that's friendly to the people, friendly to the United States, maybe integrated economically with the United States. In the end, with so much focus on Donald Trump, on Bibi Netanyahu, on the U. S Israel alliance. That's not where the story is going to be written. There are key players in this, but where the story is going to be written is not there on cable news. This story is going to be written in Tehran, in the streets all around Iran, in government buildings and private homes. That's where it will be written. But the United States and Israel and its allies have now unleashed the forces that are going to allow, as the president said from day one, this will allow the Iranian people to take control of their destinies, to write a new chapter in the history of the country. A lot of that will depend on them. But no doubt it is teed up by how well Israel and the United States are doing in this conflict. And my reporting so far suggests things are going pretty well, with a lot of things to watch, a lot of potential trouble spots and a lot of trouble spots. All right, that is my reported monologue for today on the biggest story in the world. Want to hear from you what you think. How's the how's the effort going? Would the United States be smart to pull out of this? Or are there some goals still left to achieve that you think are vital? Built on your feedback here. Don't be shy. Send me an email. Tell me what you think about the president's efforts in Iran. Send send it to the newfangled way through email nextup halperingmail.com that's nextup halperin Gmail.com we read all your letters here, so let us know where you stand. And if you listened and you found today's conversation as vital as my parents did, do me a favor, share the episode, send the link to a friend, post it on your social media, tell people you want to recommend Next up to them and help us grow our community. And while you're at it, make sure that you're officially subscribed on your YouTube channel to this program. It's the only place where you can get the full episodes and exclusive bonus content that we put on YouTube, we drop it throughout the week. You can find us [e-mail] @nextup Halperin. And if you like the podcast format, that's available to you, too. Wherever you get your podcast, make sure you've got downloads turned on automatically so you never miss an episode. And you'll always get the story first right here on Next up. All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, the first part of my interview with the governor of California, author of a new book Gavin Newsom is next up. Up

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All right, next up and joining me now and promising young author with whom I'm often compared to were both best selling authors, both aspiring podcasters, and both primarily known for our hella good hair. One other thing we have in common. The governor of California and I are constantly asked to explain him. We're constantly, as I used to say, my business cards would say, governor, welcome that I'm a Trump explainer. And because of you, I'm now a newsome explainer and I'm asked to explain you to Californians, which I shouldn't have to do, and New Yorkers and people all over. The governor's author of a new book. It's called Young man in a Hurry A Memoir of Discovery. And it, it is a, it is a beautiful and very heartfelt attempt to try to take some of the pressure off me explaining Governor Newsom.

[Gavin Newsom]

But, but it's all about you. So I appreciate this.

[Mark Halperin]

I appreciate it.

But, but it has led, it has led surprisingly to me even more questions. So Governor, congratulations on the book. I just, I'm even the New York Times no lover of Newsom. Hard to find lovers of Newsom outside paid staff and immediate family these days.

[Gavin Newsom]

Jesus Christ.

[Mark Halperin]

But, but even then, even the New York Times gave you a very nice review. And, and they said that you know it. The guy who wrote the review, as someone I've known for a long time, said it helped explain you. So one of the things people constantly say about you is it's all ambition. This is just a book to lay

the groundwork for a presidential campaign.

Explain, please. A lot of what this interview is going to be is trying to let you explain things that I believe have been mischaracterized. Why did you write the book? Did you write the book to further

your presidential aspirations or some other reason.

[Gavin Newsom]

So the origin story is very interesting. And tragically, Ann got off, who's just a legend in publishing at Penguin Pass Press.

[Mark Halperin]

She edited one of my books as well. So I knew her quite well.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes, you know her and you know how tough she can be as well. And that will get to my response. She passed away two days ago, the day the book was launched, and God bless her, she invited me to write a book about six years ago. I submitted the book and you'll appreciate this, Mark, about two years ago, and she didn't like it. She said, you know, I'm not interested in Covid. I'm not interested in those first four years as governor and relationship to Trump. And that's what she wanted me to write about. There was one chapter in there about my mom and dad and, and my history, and I assumed that's what she wanted to edit out and I was prepared for that. I thought, okay, you don't want any of that. And she said just the opposite. And she sort of force shifted this thing back into a memoir. And then I had to go back over the last two years and dive deeper into my history and my past. So this Young man in a Hurry is a memoir of discovery. And this memoir of discovery is quite literally discovering about my mom and dad and their divorce, learning about my mother and her father and her grandfather, learning about my, my dad in his struggles, not just his ambitions, and as a process, learning about myself. And so that's what this book is, and that's what it represents. It's not the veneer of a politician. It's not a sanitized version of a elected official or public servant. It's about me scrutinizing myself in relationship to my past and as it relates to the present and the future. I'll leave that to others to determine what this benefits or whether this is a burden. But for me, this was a cathartic problem process and it's one that I'm very proud of because it's who I am.

[Mark Halperin]

The book is a, at least a three for it's, it's a great read. It reads like a great story and an all great, all great narrative non fiction. You read it and you think movie scenes and there's a ton of scenes in here that are just fascinating. Second, if you're interested in Gavin Newsom, one of the most important people in America today, by most measures, it's a great way to get to understand him. And, and then finally, it's very Interesting the way you. The way from a process point of view, if you're interested in writing, you worked with a ghostwriter, but I hear your voice in it. I'd be curious to know how you collaborated. Maybe we'll get to that. But if you want to understand how to write, it's just a great instruction there. So that's the book you said you'd wanted to do it, that the New York Times said it verges on therapeutic self analysis. I think it goes more than verges, as you just suggested. That's what it is. But why did you want to do that? Why. Why didn't you just talk to your relatives and think about it and not write a book? Why did. Why Was it cause you had a book deal and you had to write something?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I mean, I. Look, I could have force fed the book that we submitted, by the way. I'm very proud of that book as well. And it's written. I mean, if you want a book about COVID you want a book about.

[Mark Halperin]

You wrote the whole thing, not just sample chapters.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, no, the book is a hundred. I mean, we thought it was 99% done and we'll get. And it gets into all those things that, you know.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

That, you know, critics or pundits may want to get into eventually. But. So that one's. That's where it's ready. Off the shelf. And all I have to do is push send. But no, look, I just, you know, I. Mark, I'm. I don't know if you've seen this. I don't know that anyone cares to see it. I'm, I'm on the other side of a lot of things right now. I'm just, you know, I've been shape shifted in the last couple years after the recall. You know, I came out a totally different person after the fires in Los Angeles where I was on my heels and getting just crushed by Elon and by Trump and the right wing media and Hannity and all these guys 24 7, just trying to tear us down, pushing another recall. And then June of last year, when Donald Trump called me for 17 minutes, didn't read me any riot act, just wanted to read me in on his psychosis as it relates to nicknames and whether or not Kamala Harris really beat him in the debate and then federalized the National Guard. And I just, I'm just on the other side of things. And so in the process of writing this, I had that mindset like, you know, this is for my kids and grandkids and I don't get a do over. There's a finality this, I got a sell by date. And so I'm just going to tell my truth and I'm going to scrutinize myself and working with Mark Ericks, who's a rock star writer to your point where we try to sort of paint a picture and we try to really back to storyboard storytelling. He kept going. He goes, he asked me five layers deeper. He said, you really want. And he just challenged me. And I said, man, why are we doing this if we're not going to do it right and not be honest? And so I, you know, it's the best I can do, but everybody's just so prone to the cynicism of politicians and politics. And I talk about how I played into that as well in this book. So, but, and I talk about that mask I put on and how I, you know, my face was growing into it and how I could be inauthentic in terms of how I talk, my hands, the words I say, wearing a suit in high school, that, that hair gel, the whole thing. And I just, I try to break all that open and to the extent you hate me more, great. I can't control that and that's fine. But this is a book and Mark, I think you can appreciate this, man, this is a book for my kids. That dedication is intentional.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

I said, may you continue this story. It's the book I wish my parents had written.

[Mark Halperin]

It's, it's such a gift to your kids and as you said, grandkids someday because they never would have had all this if you had done this. My dad's working on his memoirs now and I'm, you know, I'm helping read stuff for him and give him his suggestion. It's phenomenal for me to be able to share that. So you're doing a great, done a great thing for your kids. So the, the, the central premise to me is something that has gotten a lot of attention, which is I knew that your parents were divorced and I knew that, that your dad gave you entree to a big fancy life. But you've laid it out in a way that again is, it's, it's Dickensian, it's cinematic. It's an extraordinary thing because some people who are child's children of divorce, they've got one parent who's got more wealth and more status. But the gap here is epic because you weren't just dealing with like going to a fancy country club, you were on private planes with the Gettys, you were, you were meeting celebrities. So just lay that part of the book out because it's, it's the spine of the whole thing for many. Lay out what it was like, how much time did you spend with your dad? How much time did you spend with your mom? And how did you deal in real time, not in retrospect, with the gap between those two things?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, they never talked about any of this when I was a kid. Thing I remember as a kid, my first pet, this is hardly relatable, was a river otter, Potter, the otter that I was named after. Gavin Maxwell, who wrote the book Ring of Bright Water about river otters, paints a picture of my father as an activist in terms of environmental justice, racial justice, social justice. He became a justice of the Court of Appeals and was one of those, what Bush would say pejoratively, was an activist judge in terms of his causes. And that was the connection to my father from afar. But from afar because that 19 year old that he married was pregnant with me, became a 22, 23 year old on her own with two kids. My father ran for county supervisor in San Francisco, lost, turned around and ran for state senate and lost. And I never knew why they got divorced. They never talked about it. A memoir of discovery Again. I learned from the Bancroft Library, an oral history of my father that no one told me about. My father describing why he left my mom and his two kids because not only did he lose the racist, he said he was broke and, and broke in and just needed to get the hell out of there. And so he was a distant figure for most of my childhood. My mom worked two or three jobs her entire life. And I know that offends folks that just think I'm trying to sanitize. But you know what? With all due respect to those guys on Fox and everywhere else that want to just let, you know, just bury folks because they disagree with them, you know, my mother deserves more grace and I'm going to give her that dignity to talk about her life and her struggles, where she did work two or three jobs her whole life, where we were a foster family growing up, where there were always roommates and people because she was living in the living room to make ends meet, to allow us to continue to live. My dad never made a lot of money. He gave us a second mortgage in a small town in rural California. Talk about Main street. Literally, that was 40 years of Dutch Flat, California, up in Placer County. He left us books, he left us a sense of purpose, but not a lot of wealth. But he absolutely opened those doors, as you describe and I describe in detail to the Getty world. And that duality has shaped so much of the perception of me. But one side of that, meaning, it's the privileged side that people see, and they don't necessarily see the side of my mom and her struggles. And so I try to crack all that open because it's a way of cracking me open. It explains my anxieties, my uncertainty, my imposter syndrome, my ability to walk in two worlds, but also sometimes never feel part of either world. It talks about why I try to overcompensate in certain ways. It talks about it's all in relationship to all of us listening. This is the case that we are the some parts of those that raise us and those experiences that mark us. And divorce is part of that. Learning disability is a huge part of my life, and that seems to have offended some. Yeah, we'll talk about that. But. But it's a big part that shaped me, and it shapes who I am today.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

From the time you were a toddler till the time you were 21, to what extent did you feel loved by your mother?

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, just. She never explained, never complained. She just always. It was hard work, grit. She just taught me discipline. If I wanted a basketball court, you got a paper route, you know, can't afford a paper route. Then you're gonna do construction. Jeff. I talk about all that. And that was. She instilled all that in me.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, but that's not.

But that's not love. That's something good. But that's not love. Did you feel. Did you feel loved by your mom?

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, no, that's. That's different. That's deeper than love, man. I mean, I described striking out three times. I was a right. You know, I was in right field for Round table Pizza and Little League. I was gonna quit. Struck out three times. She took the balls, she took a bat. She walked right back out on the field three hours later. She didn't have to say she loved me. She demonstrated every single day. She wasn't gonna let me give up. And so, no, I never felt a second that she didn't love me. And of course, I felt a lot of resentment. She said, it's okay, Gavin, to be average. You know, I mark that in the book as a moment that was pretty powerful and profound and devastating to me, like, average. And, you know, in the process of writing this, I found back to grace. And on this journey, I started to understand what she struggled with as a kid and the fact that she was a kid when she was raising me and what she was saying, basically it's okay, you know, just to be you. You don't have to be someone else. It's okay that you're having a hard time reading. And so I went through this process including her own assisted suicide where I was very resentful that I was there holding her hand for her last breath. And it was very painful. And over the, over the process of writing this and over the last year and a half, two years, I've just. Now I'm still holding her hand. I still, that breath is my breath and, and so I have this deeper love for her and, and deeper relationship with her than I've ever had. And I, I lost her 20 years ago and she never met my kids. But, but love was never, never in doubt with her.

[Mark Halperin]

So, so I've listened really closely and it's a beautiful answer and it's, it's very reflective of the way you write it better in the book. So folks, if that interests you, you should buy the book and, and read about that. But I didn't hear you say explicitly

you knew your mom loved you from

the time you were toddler till the time she, she died, you knew unambiguously she loved you, correct?

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, without, without hesitation, exception. She never expressed it, she showed it. And that's the difference. And that's what I say. And by the way, it's not what we say, it's what we do. But that was never end up.

[Mark Halperin]

Did you feel loved by your dad?

[Gavin Newsom]

He was distant and I didn't feel that when we were kids, quite the contrary. I felt a longing for him. We describe, I describe in the book, you know, the drop off point points on i80, the nut tree. People in California will know what the nut tree is and how. My mom and dad would go to the midpoint and I'd be grabbing his leg, crying, freaking out like I'm going back home to what I thought was sort of the hell of discipline with my mom, which was, was, was a different lived reality of, of scarcity versus the abundance of being up there in Lake Tahoe with my dad and being able to be out in the river and the water. But, but that, that expression of love was, was very hard for me to identify with until much later in life when I started excelling in sports, when I started getting politics and I described Mark in the scene where he survived to see me get elected governor. It was a miracle that he was Alive in his wheelchair. And election night, his caretaker says, you know, and we had one early.

[Mark Halperin]

You.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, others were pundits at the time saying Newsom's elected. And, and, and she goes, tell your. Tell your son you love him in front of everyone. He's an old Irish Catholic. Couldn't do it. He did a Jackie Gleason thing, yet I never doubted. And I write about in the book that he always did, but he never was able to express it. And I never understood his love for me until much later. Those early years were difficult.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

Your kids. So never met either of your parents?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, no. Well, my dad, near the later years, the. The two. The oldest got to know him a tiny bit. Yeah. Through my election day, little Dutchy that I tried to paint a picture with the pacifier on my inaugural that ran up to the stage and I gave a speech with him in my, in my Harmon as he's trying to fall asleep, which is. You talk about love, man, that's like the manifestation of it.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

I wish I had a Joe Rogan three hour interview, but we don't. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on from this. But I just. Folks, again, if you want to understand Gavin Newsom and you want to read about a complicated life, and again, I'll just say all these, all these reactions, like, you lay it out, it's not, it's not. It's unusual, the gap between the life your dad exposed you to and what you did with your mom. But it's not, it's not. It's not false. It's not made up. And if people want to attribute it to. You're trying to convince people you, you know, you weren't born on third base. You know, it's just factual. Just. Here's another thing. Can you read. Can you read a book?

[Gavin Newsom]

I. I can read. I just have to underline it. I can't read spatially. I can't. That's why I can't read a speech mark, because spatially I'll lose the line. So I'll literally. And I mean, I wish I had a book here.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

If you ever lend me a book. That's why I don't go to the library, because I can never return the book. I have to underline. And then what I'll do is I'll take what's underlined and then I'll put it out, and this is literally an actual example. I'll just put in pieces of paper, everything underlined, and then I'll do that. For hours and hours and hours. And then eventually I'll put it on a little yellow card, which will have just quick notes, and then it's in my head. But that's the process. Everything online I have to print out. So I take what's online, print out your blog or something, and then underline it and then put it in here. So it's a. It's a process.

[Mark Halperin]

So you can't.

You can't read on a phone. You can't read on a phone or an iPad.

[Gavin Newsom]

I can. I just get. I start daydreaming. I start drifting off. And so it's.

[Mark Halperin]

So if you're 10 is the key. Yeah. So if you're reading. If you're reading my book, say you. You open it and you just. You just start underlining as you read 100 circles.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I make stars. And then I go back, and without exception, I'll go back to every book I read, and then I will write it out. I have hundreds and hundreds of these pads. And this is the gift. This is the gift of dyslexia. I know people want to mock it and mock people that didn't do well academically, but the gift is a superpower because it allows you, with discipline. It's hard work, is the grit. It's what my mom, you know, that's what. That's her legacy. It gives you the ability then to be able to absorb a lot, but also allows you the ability to be much more flexible. Allows you the ability to, I think, to have strengths where others struggle and find weakness.

[Mark Halperin]

I want to come back to this because this is another thing where I just find the way people are reacting to this to be offensive, not just to you, but to people with disabilities. But you said you read Jonathan Allen, Amy Pardon's book in an hour and

a half or something.

Can you read a book that fast underlined, or is that hyperbole?

[Gavin Newsom]

That's more rhetorical. I was saying to them how much I love their book. And by the way, I wish I could have their book. You can see this work.

[Mark Halperin]

How long does it take you to read that book in reality?

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, I mean, that book was quite literally easy to read because it was so familiar. But you. You know, I'm not a particularly slow reader. I just have to be a more disciplined reader. And then I have to reread what I read because I'm literally constantly struggling with the focus on the first pass, and then the second pass is where it's muscle memory. And by the way, I'll Challenge you. And it's interesting you bring that up, Mark. That's an interview where I had no notes. Not a word. There was no. There was nothing. They came in the podcast together. I would challenge people to watch that. And I think it's a proof point. I was going chapter by chapter, verse by verse, right through the process that I just described, without any notes because there's no point. You won't see me in a podcast with notes, right? Because again, spatially, I can't look down. So again, it's just a lot more reps behind the scenes, right?

[Mark Halperin]

So explain.

[Gavin Newsom]

And that's, you know, that's a burden and a gift.

[Mark Halperin]

So explain this with me. We got to figure this out, right? Joe Biden stuttered and there's 100 articles about overcoming adversity, how, how hard he had to work, how. It's one of the things that people said. This is such a great story that defines this man and his effort. Your description of what you had to do to learn to read. You were sent mayor of San Francisco. You were lieutenant governor. You were governor. You're the leading presidential candidate for the Democratic Party. And the press, forget that. Forget that people don't like you in politics, the press. I mean, has there ever been a story written about? There is. I remember reading one. But people are mocking this. People are saying, you write in the book about how hard it was for you. Why is that? Why don't people see this the way they saw Joe Biden stutter? Why not? What is we. What is it?

[Gavin Newsom]

I think it's. It's a lot of self inflicted wounds, Mark. I think I walked into a lot of things. I created a lot of my own narrative. I talk, I write about that in the book. I'm very forthright about that. I made mistakes, I leaned into them. I'm the guy that went to the French Laundry. I own that. You know, shame on me. I was wrong. I played into that. You know, it wasn't just some restaurant, it was the French Laundry. Right. Just reinforces that frame. So I'm not naive about any of that. And you, by the way, you think people are tough on me. I'm tougher on myself, 10x tougher on myself behind the scenes and. But, you know, these are also things that, you know, in, I think, all of our lives, again, I use the word grace. I'll continue to use it. It's. All of those things have landed me where I am today. And so, you know, while I have regrets, I do. And I write about those at the same time, man, going through those trials, going through, I mean, I've gotten knocked down over and over and over and over again. And this notion of resilience, not perfection, is really what and perseverance is really what, you know, I've discovered in myself. And I hope it's what people understand when they read the book.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, next up, more with the promising young author of Young man in a Hurry, A memoir of Discovery, California, Gavin Newsom, right after this. Hey, let me ask you something. Do you own physical gold? Most people do not. And given the current state of the world, that's worth thinking about. Acre Gold makes it simple. You just pick a plan that fits your budget, then make monthly payments. And when you've accumulated enough, they ship you a beautifully designed 24 karat Swiss gold bar. Gold is now up 70% year over year. Central banks are still buying it at record levels. Smart money has been moving into hard

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[Gavin Newsom]

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[Mark Halperin]

Next up, more with the governor. Governor Newsom is here talking about his new book. It's called Young man in a Hurry A Memoir of Discovery. And it is a book worthy of Your time for a variety of reasons. As I said before, if you like reading good writing, if you want to understand Gavin Newsom or if you want to hear read great stories about. It's just an incredible life for a relatively young man. You've had already had an incredible life. And there's, there's just a ton in here I want to ask you about. One thing that people are interested in, they ask me about it all the time is, is your first marriage to Kimberly Guilfoyle, who I know, lots of people know her from Fox and, and know that she was for a time engaged to Donald Trump Jr. Who, you know, has some similarities with you, but different. So you talk about it in the book, but some people wish you had talked about it more. They've said to me, they've read it, they don't get it. But just explain, was she a different type of person politically then, or you overlooked political differences. How do you explain that part of your life being married to someone who now is, you know, as MAGA as it gets?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I mean, she always had a prosecutorial mindset. I mean, she was out there. Diane Whipple, there was a famous dog mauling case in San Francisco that really marked her career ascendancy. And she ended up on CORE TV eventually through Roger Ailes support on Fox. And, you know, I could see those tendencies play out sometimes when she was doing punditry. But she also, you know, had a remarkable family and father, one of, just one of my great heroes growing up. Good old Irishman immigrant working his tail off in the west part of San Francisco. Didn't explain, didn't complain when his wife died and really just was there for his two remarkable kids, Anthony and Kimberly. And that just shaped her. She's got, she's tough, she's got grit, she's incredibly bright and she's very talented. And so it was, you know, we had a great relationship. It was just, it tended to be more of a partnership in the context of a friendship eventually, not necessarily a great love story as often as the case, for two reasons. She was a young woman in a hurry. I was a young man in a hurry, and our career paths deviated. She ultimately went to take that job at Fox, but it was not in San Francisco, despite being the first lady of San Francisco. And so it ended amicably and the relationship has continued remarkably amicably for decades. And I write in the book as honestly as I could. And, you know, it's interesting, the reaction some people have because I wrote about it a Lot or her A lot. The relationship and. And her in relationship as well. To my mom, I never knew. My mom says that she never told me. In the book, I learn about what through my sister and others that never had the guts to tell me what my mom really thought about the relationship, what my sister thought about the relationship. So again, when I say memoir, discovery, that subtitles there for a reason. And that's why this was a really remarkable experience to be able to write this book and to learn more about myself and have, I think, a deeper understanding, a more objective prism to the world I'm living and not just the subjective reality that I believed.

[Mark Halperin]

One more question about Kimberly.

Are your kids. Do they know or are they interested in that part of your life?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, you know, you'll. I've never particularly shared this, and I appreciate this, Mark. I will never forget, ever, ever forget when my oldest daughter, who just turned 16 and was first online, discovered this. I had not proactively brought it up. And that you.

[Mark Halperin]

That you'd been married at all.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes. And I will never forget. She organized all four kids waiting for me to go home, including my little guy, who was like, what are we doing? Didn't even know what's going on. Still may not to this day. He just turned 10 yesterday. And my wife, I'll never forget. I get home, she goes, okay, it's all yours. She walked away. And all kids had an intervention with me in my office up in Fair Oaks. It's the opening scene in the book, is being up in Fair Oaks. I didn't write this scene. I probably should have. And in fact, I, you know, that would have been an interesting scene. And. And I had to explain all this to them. And my wife Jen today made sure I did that one on my own, appropriately.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

And what'd you say to him?

[Gavin Newsom]

I said, you know, I. Look, they. They were. They were unbelievable and lovely about it. My. My daughter was crying. She was really upset. She thought it was a. You know, I don't want to speak for her because she may get a little upset, but I felt like she felt it was a bit of a betrayal until I was able to explain it and explain that I never met Mom. This is way before mom. And because of the fact that I met her, I became a different person. And mom came into our life. And the reason you guys are here is because of this path that we're all on. And there was, you know, again, I kind of painted a picture where they felt validated, they felt seen, and they quite literally were There because of this journey that I've been on and was waiting for this moment. And that moment was finding Jen, which I write about in the book. Falling in love with her and having these four beautiful works of art. My four kids.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I've just. Again, maybe you can come back in a few weeks and we'll talk more,

because there's just so much in the book I want to get to.

You know, the central question for me that I've said at the top I deal with all the time is I. I don't know you all that well, but I've never thought of you as a phony. I just don't. I know politicians. I know politicians who are phonies. You know, you've. As you said, you've made mistakes. You've. You've certainly done things and you write about them that open the door to people feeling. That guy's got, you know, lots of hair product. That guy's handsome, that guy's successful. But. But I mean, I just. I just don't experience these. You as a phony. The New York Times review says this Newsom has often seemed unknowable, distant and inscrutable. Do you. Do you think you come across to people as distant and inscrutable?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, you know, I don't. Those aren't the words I use in the book, but I do refer to that image and how that was sort of created. And I. And I played into it because, look, I. I'm still that kid in the back of the classroom praying that the teacher doesn't call on me. I'm always be that kid. And so there's a shyness, which is ironic because I tend to. I love people, I love crowds, but I'm also. There's sort of a natural shyness.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

My life. And so that sometimes comes off as a little aloof. And I remember, you know, there's some. There's some scenes with. At Delancey street with Mimi Silbert, and she's, you know, she said, you know, you're the fucking mayor and you're going to get your. And she really started. Crack me open. And I mean, it really cracked me open. And again, remember, I'm the kid in high school with a suit on, all right? I was putting on a uniform. So it's completely legit that people feel that way. And I hate that they feel that way because you know what that makes them. I don't want anyone to feel bad about it. Like, you know, no one wants to hate someone. I mean, may feel good but it's just like. It's not. So I rather. People hate me for real reasons, for the right reasons, not for those other reasons. And that's why I'm. I'm telling you, Mark, man, I'm on the other side. It's reflected in my social media. It's reflected in my willingness to take political risk. It's reflected in the way I'm leaning into the world. And it's reflected in this damn book, take me or leave me. You don't like me. I'm good. I'm good. I got nothing else to prove. I got enough hugs from my mom and dad. And I learned about the hugs come in many different forms through the process of the book. And I have more hugs than I can ever have dreamt of with these four perfect kids. And that's life. I'm not going to screw up moving forward.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, let's talk about the four perfect kids. Kids, you were. You were on the first or second episode of this program, and you told me a story about one of your kids going to. Coming back from a friend's house with a single security guard and saying, you know, when can I go back to have a normal life? When are you going to be out of public life? Then you did an interview with Dana Bash on CNN as part of the book tour, and you said, I may not run because my family, you know, has ambivalence about it. I say all the time, I don't think you're going to run. I think you may get in and then get out. But I think because so many people dislike you, it's just true.

Maybe the book will take the edge

off of that because. Because you're gonna get scrutiny for stuff you've never gotten scrutiny before. That's what happens if you run it on.

[Gavin Newsom]

Bring it on.

[Mark Halperin]

I just think my gut says you're not gonna run in the end. But people said to me, mark, you think those kids don't wanna be in the limelight? They posed for Annie Leibowitz. So explain. Build on what you said to me several months ago. Build on what you said to Dana. How should people understand your willingness to run if. If it's not a 6 nothing, unanimous decision. If one kid says, daddy, I don't

want you to run for president, is

that a veto that they can exercise?

[Gavin Newsom]

So let me. I appreciate the question. I love this question. And let me unpack it. Give me a second.

[Mark Halperin]

If I. Yeah, take your time.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know you're busy. I know you're busy. I know you Got commercial breaks. I know you got to get to other stuff, but let me just try my best to be a succinct. But I also feel like it deserves a response. I don't know a 16 year old that would not take up a phone call from Annie Leibowitz to get photograph revoked. So that, that's just that. Okay, so that's a separate thing altogether. Those kids doing that. The two boys were like, what the hell are we doing here? And it's reflected in how they dressed that day, the two girls. It was like one of the dreams of their life. And as a dad, I was very proud that they can experience that. But as it relates to my daughter, she, you know, she's had, she's got a countdown clock, she's literally got a calendar. She tells me every day how many days left with my sell by date this milk cart. And that is my job as governor so that she can have her freedom because again, she's a 16 year old girl and it's understandable. That said, my 11 year old is who you're referring to on bash. My 11 year, excuse me, my 14 year old son who was 11 when he really started to discover my political realities and his, his relationship to him. But he sent me, he said he saw something a few months ago. It said new some looking to run or something. And he asked me, he said, are you running? I said, I will never do it without you, man. And he goes, I don't want you to. We're too young. You need to spend time, what you spend more time with us. And like I, I literally have a screenshot of that and I will never lose that. And, and so you're right, those are the folks that matter. I'm not going to screw that up. But want to make this crystal clear. It's not because I'm not used to getting knocked, man. I mean you started this, you know, with the Trump derangement frame and the California derangement frame. But you know, turn on Hannity. These guys have newsome derangement syndrome. All the guys in the right. This is an obsession and has been for years and it's now dialed up. I mean they look just absurd now. So this notion of getting, getting hit and getting hit hard, I mean that, that was the book that I have on the side that I never published. It was a lot of that. It was a recall and it was all these things. But if, but I, I get your point on scrutiny.

[Mark Halperin]

But if one, but if one kid's

[Gavin Newsom]

not going to be the reason.

[Mark Halperin]

But if that one, but if one kid or one spouse says, I don't

want you to run, is that it?

Or will you run in op, in, in, in the face of their opposition?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I can't run it. I can't run in the face of their opposition. Then I'm, then I'm running away from everything, all my truth and everything I put out in the book. Then I'm, then I'm what? Those critics, the folks you're talking to, I need you to get a new friend group. Those critics are saying about me 24 7.

[Mark Halperin]

So what would you say to all the people, including, I'll say, governor, some of your own advisors who contact me and say, mark, you look like an idiot when you say Gavin Newsom might

not run or won't run.

What should I, what would you say to all those people?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, just that they're wrong and they should be cautious about that. That said, look, you got to have, I've said this 100 times. It's the Nietzsche. You got to have a big enough why to endure any. How. You just describe the how, how the hell you endure the slings and arrows. These guys, look, I'm not these, they want to take me out. And you don't even know the half of it. You all think you know the half of it. Everybody you're writing. You don't know the half of what these guys are doing. The Trump administration is doing. You know, what they're capable of doing. You know, intuitively what they're doing. I have a better sense of what they actually are doing. This, this is zero sum for them. They want to flatten me. I get it. So it's not that. But you know what? Right now, the reason I'm leaning in is because I have a why and it's burning. And I'm going to stand up and I'm going to draw a line. And we drew lines literally here with Proposition 50. And I'm going to push back, and I'm going to push it, and I'm going to hit this bully back in the mouth. I don't like what's going on in this country. I don't, period. Full stop. I'm not counting today. And anyway, I don't like what's going on primetime Fox. I don't, I don't like the racism. I don't like any of this. And so I'm going to call it out. If I feel that way, you sure as hell better know that I will run for president as it relates to the future of this country. But you're right, that has to be backed up with the family first, and I will not screw that up. So your answer is yes. They all have a veto. Every single one of those kids have a veto.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay.

You know, again, you're not a perfect person. And I can see some of the reasons people don't like you. Just like I could see reasons people don't like me. But, but, but you're just your understanding of the media, your understanding of how to combat Donald Trump, which tens of millions of people want someone to do skillfully. And, and the fact that you could write a great, revealing, honest book is, is, is super impressive. And, and, and I'll take a heat from a thousand thousands of people who listen to this, and they'll say, you love Newsom. You're rooting for Newsom? No, I'm covering the campaign. But ladies and gentlemen, this is one of the most impressive books by a politician I've read, and it's somebody who has governed the state of California. Is the state perfect? No, it's not perfect. It's not perfect. But.

[Gavin Newsom]

Of course not.

[Mark Halperin]

But, but, ladies and gentlemen, just be open to reading the book, be open to understanding and a very significant person in America today, and be open to realizing that Gavin Newsom is flawed like all of us, but he's led already a super interesting life and he's been willing to share it with us in the book. Governor, thank you for being here. You know, when I was on book tour for my books, there was always like 20 things in the books and I'd like. No one ever asked me about that. So I'm going to pull a Tim Russert and say, come back and come

back in a month.

Tell your people you're coming back with Halpert in a month. And, and just tell me what you want to talk about. And you can tell the stuff from the book that no one ever asked you.

[Gavin Newsom]

How about that? I like this. I can interview myself on your show.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'll just, I'll just keep time. Gavin Newsom, Young man in a hurry. A Memoir of Discovery, ladies and gentlemen. It's, it's. You just buy it if you're interested in America, politics, family, or somebody doing something really hard, which is confronting parts of their past they either didn't know or never really thought about and certainly haven't shared before. Governor, thank you. Grateful to you for making time.

[Gavin Newsom]

Great to be with you. Thanks, Mark.

[Mark Halperin]

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[Gavin Newsom]

Are you my dad now?

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[Mark Halperin]

All right, so you listened to my conversation with Governor Newsom. You know I have a good relationship with him. You can see that from the way we communicate with each other. I'm not his spokesman. A lot of you don't like Gavin Newsom. I get that. But this is an important guy here in the country and the book is going to give you insight into him. I hope the conversation did as well appreciate his making time for and his staff making time for us. I want to talk to you a little bit about what I think about that. You know we've, we've watched the reaction, the interview as, as bits of it

have been posted in advance of this episode online and a lot of it's negative.

Now part of that is a lot

of it reactions on X and X

tends to at this point be more

negative to people like Gavin Newsom.

But this is, this is the interplay here between, between his book presentation and

how people feel about him and, and my doubts that in the end he'll definitely run for president.

And if he doesn't run for president,

it takes the person who I believe is the front runner and in some

ways the clear front runner to be the nominee off the table. That would scramble this, this 2028 thing quite a bit. We've looked at some of the responses

on social media to the early clips we posted. The earliest one we posted was this

question about can Gavin Newsom Reed Look, I don't think the guy, I'm sure some of you disagree with me. I don't think he's faking the notion

that he's, he's got dyslexia.

And dyslexia affects different people in different ways.

But this question of his struggles to

read to me is a, is kind

of a heroic thing, unless you just think he's lying about the whole thing.

But the main reaction we saw online, not 100%, but, but no question that the main reaction is people saying he's lying or saying his, his disability is so pronounced that it should disqualify him. So here's one in the latter category.

This is a one from Johnny Red Dot. Again, these aren't prominent people, but, but the reactions on social media that are representative of what we see, and he

says, I think this, meaning dyslexia, would qualify him from being president. He couldn't use teleprompter or read national security documents quick enough in emergency situations. Now, on first glance, you might think that's just a partisan hit on him,

but there's some truth to it, and

I probably should have asked him about that. Maybe the next time we talk, I will. You know, there's no doubt that it's,

it's admirable to struggle through a disability and get your job done.

But President United States, you need, need to be at the top of your game, right?

If you've got some issue. So could they accommodate him to make decisions quickly the way they have and

in the jobs he's had previously, the job he has now as governor, they could, but there certainly, I think will

be some voters who want to hear

more of how, how it's going to work out. Now, other line of criticism was people thinking he's lying, that, that he can read.

Right.

So that's a different. One point of view is he can't

read quickly, so that Disqualifies you. Here's another one. A two from Myrtle with pictures of newsome reading, looking down, reading a book in a normal way not doing his underlining thing or newsome in reading a newspaper. And they say so was this just

posing not a pen in sight.

Also a reasonable question based on those photos. And that's a, that's an issue. He's also going to have to, I think based on the reaction he's gonna have to explain to people. It's, it's not the same every time. Right. There could be a picture of him reading a book. Maybe the book was already pre underlined. Maybe he's glancing at the newspaper, didn't need to read lots on it. You don't know. Here's another one back to saying the

guy can't be president because he can't read.

This is a, A three, please. This clown wants to be president. A guy who can't even read a book. Yeah, we're better than this America. New scum popular nickname is a fool. And then, and then another one along these lines Im this is a 4 please. Imagine this clown reading a presidential daily briefing like this. He acts like he's dumb to appeal to his voter base while stupidly disqualifying himself for the position he's running for. He's turning into Kamala 2.0. Again folks, this is, this is it tells you a couple things. Three things really from this one episode that I, that I want to highlight for you. One is a lot of people reflexively don't like Gavin Newsom. They just don't. He says he doesn't care about it, but if you want to be present, you need to get a lot of votes. You need to be in the friend making business. Number two, people still have questions about this question of his reading. Either is he telling the truth about his disability or does his disability disqualify him? You know, and then number three, you know, if his kids, as you heard in the interview and his wife, if they, if they have some doubts to say the least, about whether he'll run for president, this is just another episode where if, if I were them, I'd say, huh, do we really want to put our family through this to run and if we run, to win when here's the guy sharing in his book and sharing with me the struggles that he's tried to overcome and has overcome to deal with his disability. And then he's mocked. Here's one again, this was not the

majority view, but here's one More favorable

number A7 from Rick Go5W 5V almost was my handle. Here is the human side of Gavin. Despite his dyslexia, he accomplished a lot by turning his weakness into a superpower. Again, if this book was written, at least in part to frame the Gavin Newsom story in a positive way, that's,

that's, that's what he'd like people to

come away with this book from, but with, but again, just being honest, it's a lot of, a lot of negative feelings towards Gavin Newsom. And, and every time I interview him, every time I write about him, I hear from folks it's going to be interesting to see. Again, grateful to the Governor for coming on and grateful to you for watching today's program. We'll be back on Thursday, a couple days from now with another brand new episode. Have some great stuff lined up and we'll continue to of course cover the military situation and diplomatic with Iran. As always, please share the program. We want more nexters with your friends, your families, your associates, your enemies, those strangers who happen to meet on the street, airplane, subway, whatever it is. Subscribe on our YouTube channel. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. We always want you to be able to make sure you know what's coming. Next up,

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[Gavin Newsom]

Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

[Mark Halperin]

Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.

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