How Dr. Fauci's Media Pals Covered for Him

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: How Dr. Fauci's Media Pals Covered for Him

Date: July 30, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (Editor-in-Chief, MK Media)
Featured Guests: Chris Salcedo, Vivek Wadhwa

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Episode Overview

This episode addresses how mainstream media and Democrats are covering (or not adequately scrutinizing) Dr. Anthony Fauci's Senate hearings concerning his role during the COVID-19 pandemic. Halperin opens with a monologue critiquing the media’s approach to Fauci’s accountability, outlines the substantive concerns animating Republican anger, and explores the public demand for a reckoning over pandemic decision-making. The episode then features two in-depth interviews:

• Chris Salcedo on Latino political realignment and immigration
• Vivek Wadhwa on healthcare innovation, entrepreneurship, and US immigration policies

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1. Mark Halperin’s Monologue: Fauci, Accountability, and Media Coverage

[00:00–18:00]

Main Theme

Halperin critiques what he sees as weak, process-focused, and defensive mainstream media coverage surrounding Dr. Fauci’s latest Senate hearing, particularly his repeated invocation of the Fifth Amendment and the lack of substantive focus by major outlets on the key questions about his pandemic role.

Key Discussion Points

• Why Republicans (esp. Rand Paul) are Angry:

  • Objections to Fauci repeatedly pleading the Fifth before the Senate, despite Biden’s pardon.
  • Desire for accountability on four main areas:
    1. Funding of gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China.
    2. Covid’s origins and Fauci’s role in downplaying lab-leak theories.
    3. The gap between Fauci’s private views and public policy guidance (masks, school closures, lockdowns).
    4. Fauci’s media celebrity and perceived self-aggrandizement.

• Media Coverage Critique:

  • Dominant media (“the politico-media complex”) underplays the substantive reasons for public and Republican anger, focusing instead on “process stories” (the spectacle, political rifts) and defending Fauci as a “respected scientist”.
  • Coverage would be far more aggressive if Fauci were a Republican: “Had this been a Republican, you would have seen words like stonewalling.” (Halperin, [11:55])
  • “The more you protect Dr. Fauci... the more you actually raise the anger level against him and against yourselves.” (Halperin, [18:20])

Notable Quotes & Segments

• Fauci Pleads the Fifth – [04:06]:

  • Clip:
    “On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment...” – Dr. Fauci

• Fauci Contradicts Himself – [05:30]:

  • Older clip:
    “I am very happy to testify before any congressional oversight committee... I have nothing to hide.” – Dr. Fauci, ~2022

• Four Core Accountability Questions – [06:00–07:30]:

  • “It has to be him. It can't be somebody else…” – Halperin

• On media narratives – [12:05]:

  • “The coverage... was pathetic. It did not put in sharp relief either his obsession with fame... or those three big questions.” (Halperin)

Media Montage [12:45–15:50]

• CNN’s Dana Bash & Leanne Caldwell – [12:50]:
  "Rand Paul has been obsessed with this since COVID happened... Dr. Fauci thinks that Rand Paul was sent her to the central to conspiracy theories about the origins of COVID." (Bash/Caldwell; Halperin’s commentary: “...a super popular way for the media to talk about this.”)

• CNN’s Abby Phillip – [13:19]:
  "This is an assault on science and scientists... 38 years of service to the country..." (Phillip)

• TMZ’s Harvey Levin – [14:24]:
  "They want to take something that Anthony Fauci says and then claim it amounts to perjury, and they want to prosecute him... That’s the point of this hearing. There is no other point."
  Halperin responds: "I respectfully dissent... There is another point. Rand Paul said it. He wants accountability."

• Rand Paul Reaction – [15:52]:
  "I was disappointed. I had hoped that he would come forward and perhaps apologize. …A million Americans died and many people… believe that this virus came from a lab that was funded by the US Government... a terrible mistake, maybe one of the greatest mistakes in modern medical history..." (Rand Paul)

Halperin's Conclusion [16:30–18:30]

• The country needs a reckoning and an account of COVID leadership—Fauci shouldn't be "beyond reproach."
• “This is a search for understanding about one of the most searing events any of us have lived through... The more you protect Dr. Fauci, the more you actually raise the anger against him and yourselves.” (Halperin, [18:20])

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2. Interview: Chris Salcedo on Latinos, Party Realignment & Immigration

[22:18–41:53]

Main Theme

Salcedo discusses why Latinos’ historical Democratic loyalty is shifting, the Republican Party’s failures and successes in Latino outreach, and how Trump’s different approach resonated. Also, in-depth debate over immigration and ICE.

Key Points

• Latino Voters’ Political Realignment

  • Many Latinos historically voted Democrat through family tradition, not close examination of party principles.
  • Recent trends (notably the Trump era) show a substantial shift: “It was historic numbers. …the majority of Latino men, first time in Republican history and US history, vote for the Republican and 48% of the Latinos writ large vote for President Trump. Never happened.” (Salcedo, [28:20])

• Why Republican Outreach Used to Fail:

  • Past GOP efforts assumed Latinos support illegal immigration.
  • “Bush and McCain and Romney thought we could appeal to Hispanics by catering to illegal immigration... bought into this Democrat clap trap that Latinos covet breaking laws...” (Salcedo, [28:55])

• What Changed with Trump:

  • Trump “talked to Latinos like they're Americans” and prioritized law and order, which resonated, especially on border security.

• Media Narrative Disputes on ICE & Interior Enforcement

  • Salcedo rebuts accusations of racial profiling and broad ICE overreach:
    "If I run across somebody who is illegally here, I'm not going to just look the other way. They deserve to be taken into custody and deported out of the country." ([34:14])

• First Latino President—Prediction

  • A conservative Latino president is more likely; names Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz as strong candidates.
    “If I were a betting man, it’s going to be a Republican who is the first Latino President of the United States.” (Salcedo, [38:24])

Notable Quotes

• On Latino realignment:
  “President Trump said, I’m going to talk to Latinos like they’re Americans. And guess what? We responded.” – Chris Salcedo [29:25]

• On ICE enforcement:
  “If I run across somebody who is illegally here, I’m not going to just look the other way… no illegal alien has the right to have one pinky toe in the United States of America.” (Salcedo, [34:32])

• On propaganda and the media:
  “There is a cabal… making sure Americans are not getting the facts they deserve to make the right decisions...” (Salcedo, [32:13])

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3. Interview: Vivek Wadhwa on Healthcare Innovation and Immigration

[52:32–73:01]

Main Theme

Wadhwa shares his entrepreneurial journey, his company’s innovations in healthcare diagnostics, and strong critiques of the US healthcare and immigration systems.

Key Discussion Points

• Wadhwa’s Background & Mission

  • Serial entrepreneur, academic, now CEO of Bionics Biosciences, focused on blood/urine analysis for early disease detection.
  • Personal impetus: his wife’s cancer death and own heart attack exposed failings in US healthcare.

• US Healthcare System Critique

  • “I think we have a corrupt system which is going to be very hard to change... the entire system is geared towards keeping us sick, dependent on these companies, these businesses...” (Wadhwa, [55:13–56:00])
  • Moved R&D to India for more favorable innovation/conduct of trials.

• Company’s Mission

  • Develop affordable, device-based immediate diagnostics for a range of diseases (beginning in India, then to the US).
    “You take a sample of your urine or blood, and immediately the device tells you every disease you might have...” ([56:43])

• Immigration and H1B Debate

  • Outlines why the “skilled” immigration system (H1B visas) is both essential and plagued by abuse.
  • Admits 20–25% of H1B visas are fraudulent: “...About 20, 25% of the people who come in on H1B visas fall in that category.” (Wadhwa, [63:41]; Halperin: “That’s a very high percentage. I like somebody who supports the program to acknowledge this...”)
  • The current system traps skilled immigrants in “immigration limbo” for decades; calls for more green cards, not more H1Bs.

• Views on US Exceptionalism

  • “The fact that anyone... can come here and build a billion dollar business. …It’s all about merit and about giving back to the country.” (Wadhwa, [67:31])

• On China, AI, and Technology Competition

  • Warns that China is “eating America’s lunch” in key technologies.
  • Advocates tech sector support, vigilance, and limits on Chinese AI models’ use in US.

Notable Quotes

• On US healthcare failures:
  “We don’t get good health here... we wait weeks to get appointments... people go bankrupt with all the medical bills that they receive.” ([56:00])

• On the H1B and green card process:
  “If I applied for a green card, as I said, it took 18 months. Today, if I was to do the same thing, it would take 70 years...” ([65:01])

• On AI threats:
  “China is like termites eating away at the foundation of our house...” ([70:12])

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4. Memorable Moments & Other Segments

Mark Halperin on NYC Mayor’s "Doxxing" of Wealthy Residents

[41:55–52:00]

• Halperin comments on New York City’s new luxury-apartment tax effort, criticism of "doxxing" wealthy residents, class polarization in city politics, and the potential for political backlash among the city’s oligarchs.

Lighthearted Banter

• Wadhwa:
  “You know, life is taking me by surprise also... Right now I have a mission, and I’m trying to fulfill that mission. And, by the way, I’m nearly 70 years old now... I’m working harder than I ever have.” ([54:12])
• Halperin teases about trying to ask questions Wadhwa has never been asked ([52:30], [72:44]).

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5. Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–18:30 – Halperin monologue: Fauci, hearings, media
• 22:18–41:53 – Chris Salcedo interview: Latino politics, immigration
• 41:55–52:00 – Halperin commentary: NYC mayor, class politics
• 52:32–73:01 – Vivek Wadhwa interview: healthcare, innovation, immigration

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Tone & Language

• Direct, engaged, sometimes skeptical but always conversational.
• Halperin frequently challenges both media colleagues and guests, but invites nuanced discussion.
• Guests (esp. Salcedo, Wadhwa) are candid, assertive, sometimes confrontational about establishment narratives.

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Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in media bias, the enduring fallout of COVID leadership, evolving Latino voting behavior, immigration policy debates, and what disruptors think is broken in American healthcare and tech policy.
• The wide-ranging interviews offer both critique and constructive ideas; the entire program is skeptical of elite consensus but rigorous about the substance of major national debates.

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Selected Quotes with Timestamps

• "He may be your friend if you're in the media, but he's not beyond reproach." — Mark Halperin, [17:15]
• "President Trump said, I’m going to talk to Latinos like they're Americans. And guess what? We responded." — Chris Salcedo, [29:25]
• "We have a corrupt system which is going to be very hard to change." — Vivek Wadhwa, [55:13]
• "China is like termites eating away at the foundation of our house." — Vivek Wadhwa, [70:12]

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Transcript

[Mark Halperin]

This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.comwith an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. And next up, it shall be Mark Halperin here. Thank you for joining. Next up with me, Mark Halperin, editor in chief of two Way and the host and guide to you for everything that's coming. Next up. Thank you for being here. Have a great guest again and a great monologue. I hope the guests are definitely great. We hope you think the monologue is Vivek Wadwa is here. He's the author of a book, the Incremental to Exponential. But it's he defies categorization. He is an author, he's an academic, he's a businessman, he's a thinker. He's an extraordinary person. And I'm, I'm, some of you probably know him, but I'm really excited to introduce you to him. Then my other guest today, Chris Salcedo, on whose program I used to appear frequently and a great, a great, another great thinker and another author, host of the South Seda or host of the South Seido Storm podcast. Chris's book the Rise of Liberty Loving Latino A New American Revolution. Eager to hear, let you hear the conversations with both of them talking about a lot of stuff in the news and about America and about their separate visions. But before they join us, my report and monologue kind of part two from what I talked to you about on Tuesday, about Anthony Fauci and how his confrontation with the Republicans in the Senate, particularly Rand Paul, is being received and most specifically how it's being treated by Democrats and their allies in the dominant media. I don't, I don't relish playing the role of peacemaker, of explainer in chief in the media. But I feel like the Democrats and the people, my colleagues who work in dominant media, I feel like they don't quite get what's happening. I think they don't quite get the anger. Now, I've heard from many people on the left, many of nexters on the left for my monologue on Tuesday. You don't appreciate what Dr. Fauci has done. You didn't do your monologue on what a horrible job Donald Trump did during the pandemic. Dr. Fauci is an 85 year old man. Leave him alone. Dr. Fauci is a great public servant. I don't deny any of any of those Things, or at least not most of them. I don't have to say everything about everything every time I do a monologue. And right now, my concern as a journalist and as someone who's trying to maybe bridge some of the divides in America is to try to get the people on the left, in the media, and in the Democratic Party to understand what's animating Rand Paul and most, not all, but most of his colleagues about their furor about Dr. Fauci, okay? This is not a fight about whether he could take the Fifth Amendment or not, because he goes before the committee and they make him sit there for three hours and repeat the same thing over and over again. The guy has to take the Fifth because even though he was pardoned by Joe Biden. And by the way, I'd love an explanation from Joe Biden about why he felt he needed to pardon Dr. Fauci, but leave that aside. He's got to take the Fifth because he could be worried that something he said could be used against him in a state case. The Florida Attorney General's already say he's doing one, a future prosecution because his pardoned by Joe Biden only covers things that happened up until the pardon. So really, I understand why Republicans are upset that he took the Fifth, but no, no serious person who understands the law could begrudge in that. Okay? He don't want to spend his remaining time on earth in prison. For those of you who didn't see the hearings and don't own a phone or a tablet or a TV, here's one of the 105 times or so Dr. Fauci pled the fifth before Rand Paul's committee on Wednesday. S1, please.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Do you have that in front of you? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment by the Constitution.

[Chris Salcedo]

Let the record record that the witness has refused to answer whether there's a folder in front of him based on his Fifth Amendment right.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay? So did they want to embarrass him? Do they want to put him in prison? Partly, some of them. But what Rand Paul wants, I believe, and what he said he wants is he wants accountability. Okay? No one had a good time during COVID But people in Red America in particular, they want accountability. They want accountability for a range of things. And they believe, I believe, rightly, that some of that accountability needs to come from Dr. Fauci, okay? And their frustration about his unwillingness to answer questions comes in part because they believe he owes accountability. But it also comes because the Guy has spent his life, as he has said many times, testifying before Congress and talking about his willingness to testify. He. Here he is just four years ago, when asked about engaging in the process of congressional oversight, as 17, please.

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, if I become a punching bag,

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I'm a punching bag.

[Mark Halperin]

But I am very happy to testify

[Chris Salcedo]

before any congressional oversight committee.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I have nothing to hide. I have.

[Chris Salcedo]

I can explain and validate everything that I've done. So, you know, it's going to be

[Vivek Wadhwa]

inconvenient if they actually are out there

[Mark Halperin]

essentially threatening to make my life miserable. But it's. I mean, I'm going to do what I need to do, and that is

[Chris Salcedo]

cooperate fully, because we have nothing to hide at all.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so there's four big areas that the committee was interested in talking to him about, and it has to be him. It can't be somebody else. One is, did he fund gain of function research that got money, that got to that Chinese lab where the virus seems to have begun or likely to have begun? We just don't really have the complete story on that. And there needs to be accountability on that. Let's say Dr. Fauci did. If he wants to explain what happened, we should hear it. We should understand what his role was. Number two area of accountability is the origin of the virus and the failure. And. And I, I put President Trump in the same basket, even though he has talked about it for a long time, the China virus. If China did this, whether they did it on purpose or they did it inadvertently, people want accountability for that, understandably so. History deserves an understanding of it. But the American people deserve accountability for those who, like Dr. Fauci, played down the possibility that this came from the lab as opposed to occurring naturally through an animal. Third area they want accountability from is the Dr. Fauci's role in enunciating policies related to the pandemic. Masking social distancing, closing schools, closing businesses. And the gap between what we know from Dr. Fouche's private diaries that were released, no longer private, the gap between the science that he had and his and his belief in the efficacy of these things and what he was saying publicly. And the fourth area of accountability is the narcissistic, egomaniacal media fame obsession that Dr. Fauci had. Some people say, well, why do they need accountability on that? If you read the diaries, the man was operating with a massive focus on aggrandizement, winning prize money, hanging out with celebrities, being on television. We have to understand how that happened. The mindset of Someone who would simultaneously have a major role, one of the preeminent roles in dealing with an historic pandemic and an obsession with all those things. Okay, why has he been singled out? Well, he had a big role. But the other thing is, and I talked about this a bit on Tuesday, the guy has been part of, whether you want to call it the deep state or the establishment or the politico media, media complex, the guy has been a central part of that for years. It's all over. The diaries. The friendships and. And closeness and. And collaboration that he had with leading members of the print and broadcast and video online media went on for decades. If we saw his diaries and his account of his relationships with the media in Washington for 40 or 50 years, it'd be very similar to that. I saw that. I was a reporter. I grew up in Washington, and I was. I knew who he was then. And I was a reporter in Washington for a time, and I saw how Dr. Fauci was treated by my colleagues. Nice guy, loved hanging out with reporters. And you see that in the diaries. So those are the areas the press wants to get into the. The Republicans want to get into. The coverage, as I talked about on Tuesday, of the diaries in the dominant media was pathetic. It did not put in sharp relief either his obsession with fame and the implications of that or those three big questions. Gain of function, research funding, origin of the virus, and his role in COVID policy that restricted our liberties. Okay. And I knew. I knew. I wasn't sure he was going to take the Fifth, but I thought he might. But I knew what the coverage of the hearing would be like, and I was right. The coverage of the hearing is in the dominant media, for the most part, is about the process. He took the fifth 100 and whatever times he. He was in a confrontation with Rand Paul, who he's had confrontations with in the past. Rand Paul's going to maybe try to figure out how to make a referral. Okay. It was not about two things, which had this been a Republican, it would have been number one. What are the questions he won't answer? What are the substantive questions that I've laid out here already that he won't answer, that the public has an extremely compelling interest in getting to the bottom of. This isn't about his personal financial dealings. This isn't about some Little Rock land deal. This is about policymaking at the highest levels that impacted millions and millions of people. Okay, so that's. That's one. And then the other is just the fact that he Won't talk. Now, again, I understand why he took the Fifth, but had this been a Republican, you would have seen words like stonewalling. Okay, refusing to answer, not cast as, oh, isn't he smart to take the Fifth? Which again, he is. Okay. Now, we looked at a ton of media coverage of the hearing from the dominant media. We could show you tons of it and all of it will illustrate the point that almost none of the coverage is about what this is actually about. I'm going to show you some of it just, just so you get a sense. But, but trust me, we could spend an hour on it. Here's Dana Bash on CNN talking about the hearing shortly, I think while it was still underway or maybe shortly after it ended. This is S2, please. I think that maybe a kernel of it is finding some motivating something in the base, but it's really Rand Paul obsessed with this and not wanting to let it go. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, Donald. Or Rand Paul has been obsessed with this since, since COVID happened. Dr. Fauci thinks that Rand Paul was sent her to the central to the conspiracy, what he called conspiracy theories about the origins of COVID And Rand Paul thinks that Dr. Fauci has been lying to the country about China's role in Covid. And so, yes, this is, you know, thinking back to Covid hearings where Rand Paul and Dr. Fauci were screaming at each other in these hearings. And finally Rand Paul has an opportunity to bring Fauci before the committee again. That second voice is Leanne Caldwell, who covers Capitol Hill for Puck. And they picked up on what Dr. Fauci says that this is about Rand Paul's obsession. They also alluded there at the beginning to this is about the politics. I actually, from talking to people in both parties, I don't really know which way the politics cuts. Going after Dr. Fauci certainly inspires some red voters, but it's not talking about the economy or affordability. So. But I don't think, I don't, I don't actually think that they're doing this for the politics and casting it as an obsession. That's a super popular way for the media to talk about this. Here's another, another way the media talks about this is abby Phillip on CNN. Also S22, please look in reality, right,

[Chris Salcedo]

public service and public servants should be responsible, respected, everyone who was in that

[Mark Halperin]

hearing and meeting room. But what's happened is this is an assault on science and scientists. And unfortunately, Dr. Fauci is in that

[Chris Salcedo]

seat 38 years of service to the country, one of the best known scientists for infectious disease unfortunately has taken a

[Mark Halperin]

lot of heat for probably a lot

[Chris Salcedo]

of, shall we say, issues that were not fully his. He didn't make all the decisions that

[Mark Halperin]

drove the COVID pandemic. But you are right that he is

[Chris Salcedo]

one of the most respected scientists and

[Mark Halperin]

should be respected in that same sort of way today. We certainly didn't learn anything from the

[Chris Salcedo]

way the herring was held.

[Mark Halperin]

So. Yeah, well, we didn't learn anything because he took the fifth, which I understand, again, emphasis on he's a respected scientist just as President Trump is president. And he's not above scrutiny for his role in this. Dr. Fauci should not be above scrutiny. TMZ now covers Washington. Here's Harvey Levin of TMZ explaining what he thinks, the hearings, what this is all about. S14, please.

[Chris Salcedo]

They want to take something that Anthony

[Mark Halperin]

Fauci says and then claim it amounts to perjury and they want to prosecute

[Vivek Wadhwa]

him, they want to convict him and

[Mark Halperin]

they want to throw him in prison.

[Chris Salcedo]

That's the point of this hearing. There is no other point of this hearing.

[Mark Halperin]

I respectfully dissent. The gentleman from Hollywood, because there is another point. First of all, Rand Paul can't indict anybody and he can't send anyone to prison. And I think if the Trump administration thought they had something on, on Dr. Fauci despite his being pardoned by Joe Biden, a comprehensive full on pardon, they, they'd indict him. But they're, they're not, they're not going to get him in a perjury trap because he didn't testify. But what I will say is again, Dr. Fauci could write an essay. That's what I recommend you do. Write an essay, explain, answer all the questions you heard, all the questions, give us your answers. That'd be in the public interest. But that's probably not going to happen. But I go back to why did they do this? What's the point of this hearing? The point of this hearing is Rand Paul said it. Rand Paul said what? The point is. I think if Rand Paul had a choice between getting the information from Dr. Fauci and hear him apologize versus putting him in prison, he would take the former. Here's Rand Paul. One of the many explanations he's given since the hearing ended of what he was looking for and why he was disappointed. This is S7, please.

[Chris Salcedo]

I was disappointed. I had hoped that he would come forward and perhaps apologize. A million Americans died and many people, myself included, believe that this virus came from a lab that was funded by the US Government.

[Mark Halperin]

Decision for that funding came from Anthony Fauci.

[Chris Salcedo]

A terrible mistake, maybe one of the greatest mistakes in modern medical history to fund this dangerous research in a less than safe lab in a totalitarian country. But I think what we did learn is we saw a constellation of what he was saying privately and then what he was saying publicly.

[Mark Halperin]

So I'm saying to my colleagues in the press all you want, question the motives of the Republicans. Feel free. That's, that's part of our job. Wonder about their motives. Question them. Number two, re raise the issue of Dr. Of President Trump's role in the decision making. Of course, think about doing that. There hasn't been enough scrutiny on that. But when it comes to the point of this hearing and to Dr. Fauci, I'd ask you to think about why there's so much emotion around this for the Republicans on that committee and for their constituents and not just in red states. In talking to Republicans this week, I heard the same thing over and over as I was asking them, why is this such a priority for this, for this committee? The answer is the country needs a reckoning. The country needs an account. The country needs an understanding of the role this man played in one of the most momentous decisions still having repercussions. Loved ones lost children's lives and education disrupted. Businesses gone. We need an accounting and we haven't had it. We have not had a 911 commission or these other types of post tragedy commissions. We have to have an accounting. So approach your coverage of this with a, a belief that what Rand Paul is asking for is not only reasonable but is essential. Approaches from the point of view. We now know from Dr. Fauci's diaries that he's not the greatest person who's ever lived. He's not a saint. He's not. He may be your friend if you're in the media, but he's not beyond reproach. He does not represent, as he had said famously, as we showed you on Tuesday, he does not represent science. What he is is someone about whom there's a great deal of suspicion. And I'll say finally to my colleagues in the media, the more you protect Dr. Fauci, the more you celebrate his career, the more you suggest that he's being. It's an obsessive witch hunt rather than a search for facts. The more you do that, despite you're trying to help Dr. Fauci, you're actually hurting him. You're making you're actually raising the anger level against him and against yourselves. Be vigilant regardless of party, regardless of whether it's about someone you've been friends with in Chevy Chase and Northwest Washington. Follow the facts and understand that in this case, this is not a normal topic. This is not a normal congressional hearing. This is a search for understanding about one of the most searing events any of us have lived through. And Rand Paul has said he wants the facts. Let's try to figure out as a country without Dr. Fauci giving up his his rights against self incrimination. Let's see if we can figure out how to do it. I continue to talk to Democrats and people in the media about this this week since the hearing who look at me like I'm nuts. What are you talking about? Look at what Donald Trump did during COVID Dr. Fauci's such a great guy. Get off that orientation. It's not serving our business and it's not serving our country and it's not serving Democrats very well. All right, there you have it. Let me know what you think. Email me your thoughts about Dr. Fauci and how Rand Paul and the committee treated him. Send me an email nextupilmaycaremedia.com Again, my email address for this nextupevelmaycare media.com? quick break and when we come back, next up here, Chris Salcedo, host of the Salcedo Storm podcast. Chris Salcedo is next up. There's a key question that runs under everything we do on this program, no matter what topic we're covering, who's actually looking at for you and who's just looking out for themselves? I want to ask that same question now about something a lot of you are dealing with currently, your Medicare coverage. Two Medicare plans can have the exact same coverage, the same doctors and still wildly different prices, same benefits, different bill. And unless somebody goes looking, you'd never know it. Chapter, a company of independent Medicare advisors found exactly that for someone in our audience last month. Same coverage, three different carriers and switching to one plan, put a couple thousand dollars back in her pocket. That's the whole idea. Chapter is the only Medicare advisors who compare every plan from every carrier nationwide. Their advisors, they're not paid to push one plan over another. If they find you're already on the best plan for you, they'll tell you that. And if not, they'll help you make the switch. A real conversation with a real person, free and done in under 20 minutes. Folks who switched with Chapter last year saved an average get this of $1,100. So give my friends over at Chapter a call. You can reach them at 262-454-0503. Again, call my friends at Chapter now, 262-454-0503. People who check tell me the same thing. They'd wish they'd call a lot sooner. All right. Next up and joining me now, Chris Salcedo. He's the host of the Salcedo Storm podcast, author of the book the Rise of the Liberty Loving Latino. Hope I said that right. A New American Revolution. Chris is just such a thoughtful political analyst about one of the central questions in not just our politics but our country today, which is what's going to be the future contribution, identity and political orientation of our vast and growing Latino community without making the assumption that many in the media make that Latinos should vote Democratic. And next up, and here is Chris Salcedo. Chris, welcome in.

[Chris Salcedo]

Great to see you, Mark. Thank you for the invite, man.

[Mark Halperin]

Tell me the story of the Salcedo family. Where did your grandparents live? Where did your parents live? Where were you born?

[Chris Salcedo]

Grandparents lived in a place called El Centro, California, at least on my father's side, my mother's side, Michigan. And I was born and raised in San Diego and right up until what was it, 2005, 2006, when I got a job in Texas and thank God I did, did I not discover the land of milk and honey and move to the free state of Texas? And turns out got out just in time because the Marxist revolution that was about ready to capture the People's Republic of California, I took full force just after I left and it is a shell of its former self.

[Mark Halperin]

Where were your great grandparents from?

[Chris Salcedo]

Great grandparents from must have been from Mexico. That's where the origins on my father's side, my mother's side must have been. Great, great, great grandparents. You know, I still think it was Michigan. I still think that's where they settled. Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

As you write in the book and as you've talked about your whole career, there are a lot of elements of the conservative wing of conservative ideology, conservative thought, the Republican Party party that are very consistent with a lot of Hispanic culture, family, traditional values, free markets. What, what has up until relatively recently, what has made more Hispanics, regardless of whether they're from El Salvador, Mexico or anywhere else, Cuba's an exception. What has made them Democrats? What, what draw what has drawn many to the Democratic Party?

[Chris Salcedo]

I would say the same snake oil that has lulled so many Americans into voting Democrat. And again, if we look at the history. I think the last real pro American Democrat president we had was Kennedy. And maybe you can make a case for Clinton. But a lot of it stems from traditional voting. A lot of it stems from, gee, my great, great grandparents voted Democrat, and so my grandparents voted Democrat, and then my parents voted Democrat. So that's what a lot of that is in place. And that's just not indicative of the Latino community. It's indicative across the board. It's how these political parties, both of them, that have not accorded themselves. Well, in my opinion, both of those parties have not accorded themselves well, it's a tradition that has been passed down through lineage, whether you're a Latino or not. And I think that there has been a tendency among those who live in the United States not to. Not to examine what the parties say they should be and a not so careful examination of what they've devolved into.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, there's this constant tension, and you've alluded to it now a couple times in how you think about these and how I think about them, which is you want to emphasize the individual. You don't want to say you're Latino, and therefore certain things have to be true about you and your political beliefs. But at the same time, what you're doing and what we are doing is we analyzing Latinos as a group. So that tension runs through all of this. I get that. But if you think about the targeting of Latinos by the Republican Party, you go Back to John McCain, say, and start there, or George W. Bush actually start there. So George W. Bush in 2000. So for a quarter century, as the demographics have become clear, the Republican leadership, presidential candidates, and party strategists that say we need to do better with Latino voters, we're being extinct party. As Latinos grow and in size, the demographic, we need to, we need to appeal there. George Bush tried. John McCain tried. Mitt Romney tried. And none of them did particularly well, Even though John McCain had done quite well. Then comes along Donald Trump. Who, who? The Democrats, the media would say, well, this guy's not John McCain. This guy's not from Arizona. This guy has no history of winning Latino votes. And yet the demographic, the exit polls and the polling are clear. In 2016, 2020, 2024, Donald Trump did quite well with Hispanic voters. What happened? How did Donald Trump succeed? Were George W. Bush From Texas, John McCain from Arizona, Mitt Romney from Massachusetts, Utah, whatever. How did it. Had the guy from Manhattan succeed where his predecessors had failed?

[Chris Salcedo]

I'll. I'll tell you a story. I'll start off by telling a story when I speak in front of Republican groups. As a conservative, I don't identify these days in particular with the way the Republican Party is conducting itself. I don't identify as a Republican. I haven't for eight years. I'm a conservative. In my mind I'm as ideologically superior to the Republicans as they are to Democrats. So this is the story. They always ask me, how do we quote, appeal? And I write about this extensively in the book how do we appeal to the Latino community? And I always set them up. And I'm probably gonna be giving away the ghost to some future speeches, but I don't mind doing it on your program. I say, everybody grab a pencil and paper, I want you. And invariably you're going to see all these people start grabbing pencils and paper. They are feverishly prepared to write down whatever I'm about, read the wisdom. I'm about ready to disseminate. And this is where Romney failed, this is where Bush failed, this is where McCain failed. I say this is the secret to appealing to Latinos. Talk to them. Which of course, you know, Bush and McCain and Romney thought we could appeal to Hispanics by catering to illegal immigration. We as Republicans bought into this Democrat clap trap that Latinos covet breaking laws, that the Latinos covet violating the Constitution. So they bought into this and so they, they hemmed and they hawed and they gave away certain sovereignty of the United States away thinking that they would win over liberty loving Latinos, which they did not. You've got the combination of the Democrats with their massive illegal immigration push under a person I call Beijing Biden and President Otto Penn. We're talking an estimated over 15 million illegal aliens coming into the country with President Trump saying, look, this is not the way to go. You people in the Latino community, you're being ignored by Democrats, especially along the southern border. I am going to bring back law and order and assemblance of legal immigration and lawful immigration. I'm gonna save your communities. And that's why you saw all of those blue communities along the border mark flip from blue to red. It's why you saw the majority of Latino men, first time in Republican history and U.S. history, vote for the Republican and 48% of the Latinos writ large vote for President Trump. Never happened. George Bush couldn't touch those numbers. McCain couldn't touch those numbers. Romney couldn't touch those numbers. Because President Trump said, I'm going to talk to Latinos like they're Americans. And guess what?

[Mark Halperin]

We responded, yeah, and it's not just the border, but for a lot of Latinos it is. And of course that runs against the Democratic narrative and some of the media narratives saying, well, of course Latinos want an open border. Again, I don't know why anyone would, would make the claim, but that's, that's what they have in their mind. Now, I don't like to judge an election before it happens, so we can't say what's going to happen in November. But what we can say is the polls are quite clear now that a lot of Latinos who voted for the President have drifted away from the Republican Party right now, including in your Texas, where there are indications that part of that is they don't want the border open, but they also don't want ICE in Minnesota killing people, or in Michigan or in Maine killing people. So do you accept the premise that some Latinos don't like what's happened, how ICE has been dealing with things not on the border, but on the interior?

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, I think that they don't like the information they've been given. I mean, and again, I think you phrased it like so many in the biased press have. They're killing, quote, people. Now. What did these people do? Many of these, quote, people used their, their vehicles to, to try to kill ICE agents. Those are deadly weapons. And when Latinos are presented with the facts of these cases, they say, so do you think that ICE agent should have allowed himself to be killed rather than return fire and try to defend his life? And then most Latinos will say, well, no, that's wrong. We have ICE agents being shot at now by left wing extremists. When you present the facts to the Latino community saying, do you believe that ICE agents ought to be shot at because they're doing their duty, which is to stop rampant, uncontrolled illegal immigration. When they're presented with the facts, most Latinos will come as most Americans will, will come to the right conclusion. The problem is there's been a concerted propaganda campaign in this country by the, the left wing press who has on purpose distorted 11 deaths as people, not as individuals who were themselves criminal illegal aliens who were weaponizing against federal officials. And when you ask the question, do you believe that people should be allowed to target and kill ICE agents without ICE agents responding, it's quite a different answer. But to your point, the polling is showing that some of this, what I would classify as propaganda, is working to a certain degree. But I would say, and Reagan said This better than I could that the American people, and that includes Latinos, when they're presented with the facts, they usually make the right decision. But there is a cabal of individuals, the uniparty, both parties who are making sure that our people, Americans, are not getting the facts they deserve to make the right decisions.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, let me clarify because I haven't talked to you in a while and I forgot I need to speak precisely or you'll lump me in with Abby. Phillip, some of the people who've been killed were, were in a confrontational posture towards law enforcement. And law enforcement, whether it's border protection or whether it's ice, they have dangerous jobs. And so we need to understand all the circumstances. Some of them were here illegally and some of them were maybe criminals in addition to the crime of coming here illegally. But not all the people killed fit those categories.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

We.

[Mark Halperin]

But in addition to the deaths, which get a lot of attention, my sense of things is that some Latinos say when the President Trump said that these interior operations would be removing the worst of the worst, removing criminals. Yeah, yeah. The broad support for that amongst Latinos and not. But what I find in talking to folks and doing my reporting and watching the situation is these large scale enterprises that, that are intimidating some people who are in the country legally but maybe live with someone who's not that, that, that, the, that that there is, I'll use the shorthand. There's racial profiling going on, there's terrorism of terrorizing of young children of people who are here legally and that, that accounts for some of the Hispanic vote in the polls now saying, you know what, I'm not as enthusiastic about this because it's moved from simply removing the worst of the worst to broad based parking lots outside where people gather to get jobs or other places, schools. And they don't like that. They find that to be an affront to their brethren, brothers and sisters. What do you think about that?

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, I bristle at the characterization of racial profiling because there is a group of people in this country who believes that if you're talking about an illegal alien, you must be talking about somebody who looks like me.

[Mark Halperin]

I mean, so a lot of the, a lot of the operations do involve people who look like.

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, and as Tom Holman is, has rightly pointed out that if I, in the course of going after the worst of the worst, I run across a rank and file illegal alien who has no right to be in the United States. And I would, I would have words with anybody who claims illegal aliens have a right to be in the United States, which they do not.

[Mark Halperin]

Totally agree with you.

[Chris Salcedo]

Yeah. A ruling, I think it was the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that illegal aliens at this point who are in deportation proceedings do not have a right to wander around the country. It seems logical that that would be the case, but we've not been operating under that rubric. I would go a step further and say that no illegal alien has the right to have one pinky toe in the United States of America. And Homa said that if I run across somebody who is illegally here, I'm not going to just look the other way. And they deserve to be taken into custody and deported out of the country. And a lot of people are bristling at that. If you read Peter Schweitzer's new book called Silent Coup.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. He's been on the program and we've talked about it.

[Chris Salcedo]

Yes. You will know that there are elements in our own government, mostly left wing, but some Republicans, who are colluding and collaborating with foreign enemy nations who are weaponizing immigration as a weapon to fundamentally change the United States of America. It is not a theory. It is an open, stated agenda item of America's enemies. And this massive wave of humanity that is coming into the United States has a purpose, and that is to undermine the sovereignty of the United States of America. And what you're seeing from President Trump and Stephen Miller and all the boogeymen that the left wing likes to point out, that a left wing that is very much in collusion with enemies of the United States is that they want to put a stop to it. And just because certain elements in our political system deem that they want to cooperate for their political advantage with enemy nations, because they see the advantage politically, doesn't mean the rest of America has to go along with that lawlessness.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Will the first Latino president of the United States be a Republican or a Democrat? And why?

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, you and I remember the whole rigmarole around Miguel Estrada and what Democrats were saying behind the scenes as to why that nominee, I think it was going. It was the D.C. court of Appeals that he was up for. Right. One step away from the Supreme Court. The reason why the Democrats opposed him was because he was, quote, a Latino and they couldn't afford to have a conservative Latino being nominated by a Republican because it would destroy a narrative.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. So just to be clear, this was before there had been a Democratic Latino on the Supreme Court. Michael Estrada, a brilliant, young, handsome, dynamic jurist who had he been elevated to the Court of Appeals successfully was seen as a shoe in for, for the next Republican Supreme Court nominee. And what you're saying is Democrats said we ought to mobilize and stop this guy.

[Chris Salcedo]

Correct. And there are many in the Republican Party who don't see an advantage in their particular districts or their particular mindset. Some of these old thinking individuals, as I was alluding to earlier, the Bushes, the McCain's, the Romneys of the world, who don't see an advantage in being the one who would nominate for President of the United States a Latino. That being said, if you look at the roster of those who are loudmouth leftist Latinos and those who are traditional American, dare I say even conservative Latinos. Marco Rubio makes a very strong case for President of the United States. Senator Ted Cruz makes a very strong case for President of the United States. If I were a betting man and this country was betting on qualifications, I would say those have a shoo in over in Alexandria Ocasio Cortez who is a, is a loudmouth leftist, maybe a Javier Becerra who may have ambitions for the presidency, who in my mind is disqualified because he's a left winger and a committed leftist. I would say if I were a betting man, it's going to be a Republican who is the first Latino President of the United States.

[Mark Halperin]

If a general election in 2028 is between AOC and Vice President Vance, what odds of winning would you give Vice President Vance?

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, it all depends on how unified the Republican Party is for me, for me personally and I don't. Unlike Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and loudmouth leftist Latinos, I do not deign to speak for the entirety of the Latino community. I do say I speak for the majority of liberty loving Latinos out there who have traditional values. And I would say Vance would have

[Mark Halperin]

the edge over a 70, 30, 60, 40. Give me a number.

[Chris Salcedo]

Well, again it's, it's so hard to predict.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, you gotta. I know Yogi Bear said predictions are difficult, especially about the future, but that's, that's a business we're in here. What percent chance today with all the variables in play? 70% chance. 60, 50, 50.

[Chris Salcedo]

If it was today, I would say Vice President vance has a 70, 30, at least a 70, 30 chance of beating out a presidential candidate who is either elected by Democrats or as we've seen the Democrats do in several high profile races. They just, they just install somebody the Democrat party wants and they don't even wait for votes from their own people anymore. So yes, I would say Vance over Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. Any day of the week.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. I can talk to you about a bunch of stuff, but I want to make sure we sell the book here. Rise of the Liberty Loving Latino who Should Buy It. What? What's the profile of the perf reader for your book?

[Chris Salcedo]

American?

[Mark Halperin]

If you're an American.

[Chris Salcedo]

Yes. If you are an American and you pride yourself on being an American, this book is for you. The Rise of the Liberty Loving Latino, A New American Revolution. The revolution part is this. Not since the formation of the Republican Party has there been such a massive political shift. And Mark has been watching this. He can attest to this. The 2024 election that saw historic numbers of Latino voters switching to the America first banner. They didn't vote for Republicans. If it was Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan at the top of the ticket, those Latino voters would not have voted Republican. It was the America first coalition that got them in. And it was historic numbers. So I liken it to the dark days of World War II when the Allies were up against it. It wasn't until America entered the war when the allied nations started to see hope and. And a swinging of that war. Just to all the rest of you folks out there who are not Latinos, who believe in America first, who believe in American exceptionalism, you just got millions of liberty loving Latinos joining that fight. And this book details, from the culture to the politics to my interview with President Trump just before the election, it's all couched in that Mark from beginning to end. That's what you're gonna get when you read this book. It's in audiobook form and in hard copy book form in Amazon, so pick it up.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is a content machine. You're looking at Chris Salcedo sharing some of his content here, but you can buy the book and you can listen to him. The Rise of Liberty Loving Latino A New American Revolution, available to you now. And while you're reading it, you can also listen to Chris on the Salcedo Storm Podcast. Airs every day on all your favorite streaming platforms. Take a listen, take a look, take a read and enjoy the intellectual stylings of Chris Salcedo. Chris, great to see you. Thank you for being here, brother.

[Chris Salcedo]

I appreciate it. Thanks for the invite.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, when we come back, I'm going to take a look at Gotham City and the socialist mayor there who's making an assault on some of the city's wealthiest residents, including me, even though I'm not one of the wealthiest residents. What the impact is on New York and and beyond from the mayor's targeting of people who own things in New York City, that's next up. In today's world, finding solutions to deliver both environmental and economic benefits can seem rare. Sewer Sentry Environmental Technologies is one of those solutions. Their innovative technologies help communities reduce energy consumption, lower maintenance costs, and prevent costly sewer system failures before they occur. The result? Improved performance, reduced operating expenses and long term savings for taxpayers. Environmental advocates value cleaner waterways, healthier beaches, stronger protection of natural resources, and technologies that can reduce vibrio contamination in waterways. Fiscal conservatives value cost control, efficiency and a solid return on their investment. Sewer Sentry Environmental Technologies delivers on all of those goals. This is not a case of a choice between protecting the environment and protecting budgets. It's proof smart technology can accomplish both with systems that are faster to install, cheaper to operate, and better for overall infrastructure performance. Sewer Sentry Environmental technologies helps communities become more resilient while reducing risk and improving quality of life. When innovation saves money, conserves energy, safeguards waterways, reduces contamination and protects public health, everyone benefits. Sewer Century Environmental Technologies Faster, cheaper, better. For more information about all this, go to www.sewer century.com. monday AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now they live inside Monday.com, so they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff. Knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday dot com. All right, next up, we're going to talk about the mayor of New York City. Zoran Mandami is, when he ran for ran for mayor, made it clear he was going to raise taxes on the wealthiest, including on homeowners in New York City. And people voted for that. No doubt. If you look at any public opinion polling, you'll see, and not just in New York, people are for higher taxes on the wealthy of, of all sorts. And so you can't say it doesn't have a mandate to do it. And you can't say it's not popular. No one should be cheering for tax increases, but the money's got to come from somewhere. But the mayor has done something that's gone further than that. You'll recall not that long ago, he called out in a video, Ken Griffin, the very wealthy man who used to live in Illinois, now lives in Florida, has an apartment in New York City and said the guy's going to pay higher taxes. He basically doxed him. Well, now the mayor has decided to take doxxing from retail to wholesale. City of New York, posting on its website the addresses of a whole bunch of people, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who. Who they say could be hit by New York State's new pied a terror tax, which is supposed to only apply to people who use a new. Own a New York apartment of over a million bucks or more, but that they don't use as their primary residence. Now, there's a little bit of a cognitive dissonance on this, which is if the whole point is to charge these people for using city services, most of them don't spend very much time in New York. So that's the people who actually own apartments in New York but don't use them as their primary residence. The problem, and what has a lot of people outraged, is they're sending letters to people and they're. And publishing the names and addresses of people who don't use their apartments as pied out there. They don't use them for just an occasional visit. They're their primary residence. In some cases, they live there 365 days a year. This has caused people to once again ask the mayor, why are you targeting rich people? Why are you doxing rich people? Why are you going out of your way to inflame and anger the richest people in your community, the people who contribute so much of the tax base of the city? And of course, if you followed Mayor Mondame at all, you know, this is a. This is a feature, ladies and gentlemen. It is not a bug. This is the kind of class welfare fair. This is the kind of singling out and shaming of the wealthiest people, the most biggest contributors to the tax base in New York, that the mayor has made his hallmark. And I'm not sure how much his constituency likes it, his strongest supporters. But I do know this. The rich people don't like it at all. The rich people of New York City. This is the latest thing they look at and they say, this guy is hostile to success, he's hostile to wealth. And I'll say again, he ran on this and the rich people sat back and let the guy win. To me, the implicit. The significance of this is not Mondami doing something surprising, not Mondami doing something he didn't run on. It's whether the richest people in the city will look at their calendars and say, Is this guy going to win again? New York City mayors generally don't get beaten after one term. Mayor Mondami has already made it clear he wants to run for another term. What I am watching is, are the rich people in New York going to organize? And to do that, they have to follow the oldest rule in politics. You can't beat something with nothing. You can't beat someone with no one. And you either have to beat Mondami if you want to stop him from another term. And he just, he just got in office. But it's going to take a lot to beat an incumbent mayor. You either have to beat him in the Democratic primary or you have to find an independent or Republican who can beat him. None of that is easy. None of that is easy. So what I'm looking to see is, are the rich people going to write their editorials and their op ed pieces in the Wall Street Journal and elsewhere? Are they going to complain to each other in the Hamptons? Are they going to be furious when they have to hire a lawyer to fill out the paperwork to say, no, that's my full time apartment? Are they going to go beyond that? And are they going to say, we got to find somebody? Not the abstract notion, not attacking Mandami. If we're going to beat someone with someone, we got to find someone. Are they going to look amongst themselves, amongst politicians, whatever it is, are they going to find a candidate? And. And they got to start soon because that person, whether they're going to try to beat them in a primary in the general election, they're going to have their work cut out for them. So it's enjoy your list, Mayor Mondame. Enjoy your demonization of the people who pay the bulk of the taxes in your city. And be ready to see if the business community can figure out a way to turn their anger and frustration and annoyance into something that they actually want, which is a mayor of New York City who's not a socialist and who doesn't try to tax everything they own and everything they do. All right, there you have it. Next up, after a quick break, Vivek Wadhwa, an extraordinary man with an extraordinary life story and a brain as big as the Ritz. Stay tuned. That's NextUp. And hey, make sure you subscribe to NextUp's Instagram page where you can get bonus content and all the greatest moments from every episode. Follow us on Instagram @nextup halperin or, of course, listen to the show as a podcast. Subscribe to NextUp with Mark Halperin. Wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, please make sure you've ticked to download the episodes automatically. Have downloads turned on so you get everything first and right away as soon as they post right here on all our content from next up. So everybody's talking about weight loss injections for good reason. The results can be so dramatic. Those injections work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite. So let's say you're looking to lose weight, but you're not interested in those painful weekly injections, especially after you hear about some of the intense side effects that come with them. That's why doctors create a weight loss supplement called Lean. And the results with Lean are remarkable. 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Knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday dot com. All right, next up and joining me now, a guest that's already vexing me. We haven't even started the interview. Why is he vexing me? Two reasons. One is I like to ask our guests questions they've never been asked before. Halperin's second rule of interviewing, never ask him anything they've been asked before. I spent the last two days watching previous interviews and he's been asked nearly everything. So it's going to be a challenge for me to come up with stuff new. And the other thing is, I like to say our guest is an author, our guest is a futurist, our guest is an expert on healthcare, or guest is an academic or guest has. Has Lived an extraordinary life. One or two would be sufficient, no, ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is all those things and more. So I could use up the entire segment just telling you about his titles and his accomplishments. I'll do as little of that as I, as I. As I feel I can, because I want to get to the conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, next up and joining us now, Vivek Wadhwa. He's an author of three books, I believe, a distinguished fellow at Carnegie Mellon. Five books. Thank you. Professor at Carnegie Mellon, Harvard Law School. And, And. And he's. He's done extraordinarily well in business, and he knows a lot about a lot. I know a little about a lot, but he knows a lot about a lot. So he's already. It's good. Another reason this will be a challenge. Sir, welcome. Thank you for being here.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

It's good to be on with you.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, let's start simple. You're sitting on an airplane and you chat, chatting to your seatmate. And they say, what do you do for a living? What do you say?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Well, right now, I'm the CEO of a biotech company. I'm trying to save the world, to be able to diagnose disease at the earliest stages and help billions of people. Really? That's what I'm doing day and night now.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so you're a CEO of a startup. I am, too. I'm not a CEO. I'm a senior founder and senior executive. So I know what it's like. Are you doing a startup? It's hard to think of anything else because, you know if you don't do it, it probably won't be done. And you feel like if you don't do it, the company could fail. And in your case, you're doing a bold thing. You're trying to save the lives of millions of people, maybe more than millions around the world. So I get. I get your focus there. What would you say your occupation is? Not CEO, but what's your trade? What are you not. You're not an engineer or your professor. What would you say your trade is?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I started off as a computer programmer, then became an entrepreneur, and then became an academic and then had a heart attack. And I'm sorry, I became an academic, between entrepreneur and academic. And then I lost my wife to cancer, and now I'm an entrepreneur again, building a biotech company. Something I know I knew nothing about a few years ago.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I guess as I. As I studied you for the last couple days to really understand the complexity of your mind and of what you've accomplished and the life you've lived, it seems to me. You tell me if this is a good characterization. You think about a lot about whether it's business or intellectual, the intersection between humanity, humans and technology. How's that. Is that.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

That's a good description. And, you know, the other thing is that I'm going wherever life takes me. Yeah. I could never have imagined a few years ago I'd be doing what I'm doing today. I mean, it's sort of, you know, life is taking me by surprise also. And I'm completely. Right now I have a mission, you know, and I'm trying to fulfill that mission. And by the way, I'm nearly 70 years old now. Right. Yeah. So I've done a lot in my life and I'm working harder than I ever have. Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

You've had two extraordinary and tragic, at least two that I know of, connections to the healthcare industry. Your wife's passing from cancer and, and, and your feelings about. About how that might have been better treated and your own heart attack.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Do you. Do you. What's your. What's your big thought? Just talk about the United States. We'll talk about your company next. What's. What's your big thought about improving healthcare in the United States? What are the building blocks of realistic improvement in this country for people's preventative care and care.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

You know, I'm going to be very honest with you. I think we have a corrupt system which is going to be very hard to change. And this is why, literally, I had to move my company out of Silicon Valley and take it to India. Of all the places where now I have a who's who helping me. And there I'm able to do things I could not even dream about doing in the United States. In testing for cancers, diseases, and now developing technologies that can test water systems and so on. Here there's so many inhibitions to innovation. And the entire medical system is built to protect the entrenched interests. The entrenched interests are everything from the doctors to the hospitals to the pharma companies. You name it.

[Mark Halperin]

Don't leave out the health insurers and health insurance.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Sure, absolutely. The entire system is geared towards keeping us sick, dependent on these companies, these businesses. And we don't get good health here. I mean, we're suffering. I mean, everyone has a friend or relative who has cancer or some other debilitating disease. They're suffering themselves. We wait weeks to get appointments with doctors, and then also people go bankrupt with all the medical bills that they receive. It's. It's a really bad system, which. This should be the model for the world. Yet we are, you know, stuck in the past.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, explain what your company is trying to accomplish in as simple terms as you can. Explain it to me like I'm a Dutch teenager and I barely speak English.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

See, right now, my goal is that you go to a doctor, you go to the supermarket, you go anywhere, you take a sample of your urine or you take a sample of your blood, and immediately the device, the technology, tells you every disease you might have. It tells you all the medical tests. You get everything from the blood tests, everything from arsenic to zinc being detected in it, and then, most importantly, capturing cancers at the earliest stage. That's the technology I'm trying to build. It sounds crazy, especially in the United States when you've had companies like Theranos. $10 billion valuation, $1.4 billion invested in it. Complete fraud. But this is what I'm trying to build, and I think I'm going to succeed.

[Mark Halperin]

So you're laboring under. And I know whenever you talk about this, you're very cleverly trying to diffuse this problem. You're laboring under the fact that you're basically trying to really do what Thanos claimed they were going to do, which is to allow for the. The cheap, meaning inexpensive analysis of blood. In her case, your case, blood or urine, to do a complete understanding of that person's potential and actual health problems. Right. That's the goal.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Exactly. And what do you need?

[Mark Halperin]

What is it you can't do in the United States that you've decided you have to do in India to develop this?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Well, first of all, trying to do the type of innovation that I'm doing here, we don't have the. The, you know, the scientists, we don't have the mathematicians, we don't study plasma physics, electrical engineering. And if those people do exist, they're hired by big companies doing secretive work in government labs or something.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. And paying more than a startup can pay.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah, exactly. This talent isn't here. Secondly, getting access to the data, getting access to medical samples. Imagine to detect a cancer, we need hundreds of samples. Imagine trying to get hundreds of samples of cancer patients in the United States. Very, very, very difficult. You talk about clinical trials that take years, that cost tens of millions of dollars. That's the type of hurdle you face in the United States.

[Mark Halperin]

Right. One more on your company. If you bring this to market, first of all, what's the soonest you could bring this to Market, would you say?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

What we're doing is we're beginning pilot testing in India over the next three months to test water systems. Because when I say you can detect everything in urine and blood. Well, imagine now testing the water systems, being able to tell you taking river water or tap water and telling you the arsenic level, lead level, microplastics, being able to tell you the level of microplastics, whatever microplastics you have there. So we're beginning pilot projects with water systems in India the next three or four months. Next step will be microplastics, where we're going to be testing water systems for microplastics and so on. My goal is to bring this to the United States early next year. Not for medical research.

[Mark Halperin]

Who are your customers?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Be customers are, you know, research labs to start with, because we're making. And governments. We start working with two different state governments in India to test the water supplies in their rivers and to tell them exactly what's in it. Because, you know, for example, in Delhi there was an article that showed up this morning which showed that found that they found uranium in the water supply in New Delhi. Oh, my God. Who tests for uranium even. I mean, so now they got a problem there, they have to figure out how to fix it. Yeah, but. So we're working with the governments to do some water testing, and the agreement is that we'll give them all the information so that if they find problems, they can fix them before it creates a public panic. Yeah, tell everybody you could do the same over here. Remember Flint, Michigan? All across the country, we have all sorts of problems. We have no idea the level of microplastics we have in the tap water we drink or the milk we consume or anything like that. You know, I might be talking about India, but it's even equally. It's equally bad here in the United States.

[Mark Halperin]

Yep.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

So my goal is to bring the technology here next year. That's just.

[Mark Halperin]

Just tell everybody the name of your company if they want to learn more about bionics.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

V I O N X. Bionics. Biosciences.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. Where were you born? Where did you grow up?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I was born in New Delhi. I grew up all over the world. My father was a diplomat, so every three years there was a different country. Now it happened that he was posted here in 1980 and I was in Australia. I had become an Australian permanent resident. I was about to get Australian citizenship. The moment he came here, I packed my bags and came to America. And once you come to America, there's No going back. Because this is the most amazing, wonderful place in the world where people like me can come in and talk about saving humanity.

[Mark Halperin]

So what citizenship do you have now?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I'm an American citizen. I've been an American citizen for the last past 30 or 40 years.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. By getting, by taking the citizenship that test.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah, absolutely. I went through the whole process. I came here in a diplomatic visa and then I started working for Xerox and they sponsored me for green card. I got a green card 18 months later and five years later, as soon as I was eligible for citizenship, I became a citizen and I've never looked back. The US Government awarded me a very distinguished award as a US America, American citizen by choice. This was the highest award they gave immigrants.

[Chris Salcedo]

Yeah.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

So I was awarded that.

[Mark Halperin]

I just lucked into it. One of the many topics you think a lot about and talk a lot about is immigration.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yes.

[Mark Halperin]

And H1B visas, which should become a hugely controversial topic in this time. Explain what H1B visas are and why you think there should be more people brought to the United States under them.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Say, when you come to the United States on and you're a skilled immigrant, you know, you forget, you know, we have the undocumented, unskilled immigrants, low skilled immigrants. Completely different discussion. If you come to America to study, you study at the finest colleges and you want to get a job, you ask, you get an H1B visa. If you're, you know, an American company, startup or a large company and you want to bring in talent, you get an H1B visa. So H1B visa is a gateway for people to come to the United States who are skill, who have high skills and high education and want to work over here.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. So people who have your perspective say things like we should be stapling them to the back of Ph.D. degrees and, and, and, and why should we be training the most talented people in the world to let them only go back, force them to go back home? Why should we not attract people who don't get educated here, but who have great expertise? They want to come. As many people as you did want to live in the United States. Why should we do that? That's your point of view. Now tell me why some people oppose it.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah. See what happens is that with every government program, there's also corruption, there's also abuse. And you know, every, every, like every technology can be used for good and evil. Every government program is good and evil at the same time. So what happens is that first of all, you have people faking Their resumes. So you have these body shops who bring people in, and it's cheap labor. It's a fact. It happens, and it's a big problem.

[Mark Halperin]

So they say somebody's got an engineering degree, and then they don't. And they don't. And instead they're. They're picking grapes.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Exactly.

[Mark Halperin]

Or how common, how common is that?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Probably about 20, 25% of the people who come in an H1B visas fall in that category.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, okay. That's a. That's a very high percentage. I'd like somebody who supports the program to acknowledge this, that 25% are fraud. What's the solution for that?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Well, the solution over here is to, you know, look at the applications very carefully. That first of all, you only give it to the companies that are trustworthy and reliable, not to body shops. This is where the problem happens. You've got these body shops who bring them in, who make up resumes, who make up qualifications. The government isn't going to validate every degree in every country.

[Mark Halperin]

Are the people who do that Americans or this, like Chinese or.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I mean, it's all over the board. I mean, it's not. Not one country. It's, you know, many different countries.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, so better scrutiny of the employers. What else could be done to make the program less unpopular?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

What else could be done? Okay, here's where the big problem is right now, that you bring in people on H1B visas, and like me, they fall in love with America. They want to now become Americans and contribute to this country. They never want to go back or be anywhere else. So you apply for a green card. When I applied for a green card, as I said, it took 18 months. Today, if I was to do the same thing, it would take 70 years to get a green card. So then what happens?

[Mark Halperin]

Well, did you say 70 or 17?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

70. 70 years.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

If you're Indian and you apply for a green card, that's the wait time to get a green card on these, you know, because of the limits. And in the green card system that we, you know, we have a couple of hundred thousand visas available every year, but there's a 7% per country limit on it, which means that Indians, even though they now probably are about half the applicants, are in that 7% category, which means that they're stuck in the same job forever. So even if you're a Microsoft or Google, who's got an H1B applicant, if they're Indian, going to be in the same job for decades.

[Mark Halperin]

Right.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

If, you know, the Tech world, the average life of, you know, the average time in a job is about three to four years before you get promoted and you get tired of doing the same thing and you want to move up or do something different. Once you get into this H1B Q, if you change jobs, you have to go back to the end of the queue, right? So people get stuck there.

[Mark Halperin]

How many people annually now come in on H1B visas

[Vivek Wadhwa]

in all the different categories? Probably 100 to 200,000 people.

[Mark Halperin]

And if you had your way, what would the number be?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I mean, frankly, right now I would not increase the number of H1B visas. I would increase the number of green cards. There are more than a million and a half people stuck in limbo who are waiting for green cards. So they're neither here, they're not neither there. They can't buy houses. They won't really wait into the local community because they don't know if they could lose their job tomorrow. And they have 60 days to get the hell out of the United States. So basically they're trapped in immigration limbo. And here's the dark side of it, that the reason why the employers love it and they don't talk about it is because they benefit from this. They're able to pay them the same wages. They're relatively below market wages, but more importantly, they have stability. These people are not going to leave their jobs for decades, which means that they're not competitive. And this is why the anti immigrants rally against H1B visas, because they say that they suppress wages and they put Americans at a disadvantage. And I hate to admit this, but that does happen. In about the cases it does.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. You said America is the best place to live in the world. I don't want to hear odes to freedom and liberty. I. I want to hear like deep dish pizza. What's so great about America? We can't get it. Deli.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah. The fact that anyone, you know, a person who looks and sounds like me can come here and be lecturing everyone on what's good and what's bad. All right? The fact that someone like me can come here and build a billion dollar business. The fact that, you know, I can join any company and I rise on my merits. It's not the color of my skin, my religion, none of these things matter. It's all about merit and about giving back to the country. You've got to adhere to the rules. I mean, you can't come here now and start supporting Hamas and doing crazy things or trying to impose your Religious values? Forget it. We don't want those people.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, unless you're running for the Democratic nomination.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Just kidding.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, explain two things to me before we go. Why are we the only industrialized democracy in the world that doesn't have universal single payer health care here?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I don't know. That's a problem.

[Mark Halperin]

Why are we the only country in the world that doesn't love football? Real football?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Well, that's a different story. I mean, where I come from, they love cricket, so that's true.

[Mark Halperin]

Did you know that we could spend infinity of you trying to explain the rules of cricket to me and it would never take.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

You know something? I don't know cricket. I've never played it myself, but.

[Mark Halperin]

But you have a sense of the rules, don't you?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I know, I know.

[Mark Halperin]

I don't at all. And I've tried, but it's just not possible to understand it. Very grateful to you. What would you like people to do besides look at your company website? You want to hawk one of your books or what do you, what do you. What do you want?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I mean, yeah, if they want to know how to build, why we have trillion dollar companies, they can read from incremental to exponential. My previous book, driving the driverless Car, was written several years ago, but almost everything I wrote in it is happening right now. So that's reading material. And then my. The other thing I would say is, you know, work hard and be ambitious and realize that America gives you opportunities that no other country does. We can make big things happen here. Just have to think big.

[Mark Halperin]

Beautiful. One other topic. Let's say the president called you and said, I want you to take David Sack's job as aizar. What, what, what should federal policy be now regarding China and AI, the big American AI companies? What are the hallmarks of your. Would your. Of your policy be?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Here's what the problem is that China is eating America's lunch. They've robbed us blind. They trained our models on theirs and now they're bringing theirs very cheap. And they may do to us what they've done to several industries that they essentially underprice. And then they essentially make our American companies uncompetitive. And then they hold us hostage. You know, we're. We protected the electric vehicle industry so far, but they. China is like termites eating away at the foundation of our house. They're eating away the entire, you know, automotive industry. And they could do this in the AI industry if we let them.

[Mark Halperin]

So what's the solution to stopping them?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Solution over here. Is that we don't allow. We don't. I mean, we have to limit the use of Chinese models. We have to limit, you know, the China's ability to steal our technologies, and we have to give our companies the ability to compete better and give them the support that they need.

[Mark Halperin]

Is there any counterargument to that? In other words, would you ban the use of Chinese models in the United States?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

You wouldn't? I wouldn't ban them because we. We need them also. We need to be able to steal back from them. So, you know, it's really open game that we get our entrepreneurs to steal. You know, for example, the reason why I said that is because Google is talking about licensing this new, you know, this new model. And if they do that, they're now going to be pouring billions of dollars into China.

[Mark Halperin]

Right.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

And institutions.

[Mark Halperin]

Would you say the government should tell Google they can't do that?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, who, if you were to make a Hero of the year 2026? We're halfway through. A little more than halfway. Who would be the American AI Hero of 2026 for you right now?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I couldn't name one. It's going to be some entrepreneur who comes out of nowhere who builds the next generation of AI because today's AI is just LLM based and it's going to become obsolete in the next year or so. There's going to be another crop of. Of entrepreneurs building the next generation. Those are our heroes, the ones who are now trying to make today's technology obsolete so we can have the next generation, which is going to be much better and much more powerful and allow America to keep its lead.

[Mark Halperin]

Are you on TikTok?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

No Chinese. I don't trust them. I don't put any Chinese app on my phone.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, it's amazing that the Chinese just sent an app over here and all our kids got on it and now we can't get rid of it, even though they're trying.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

It should have been banned. I mean, I argued for that much earlier. This is why I'm also worried about the Chinese models being used by, you know, being supported by American companies should not be allowed.

[Mark Halperin]

Have you ever met President Trump?

[Vivek Wadhwa]

I haven't met him, but, you know, everyone knows Trump pretty well. So good and evil at the same time.

[Mark Halperin]

Good and evil.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Some things he's doing are good, but I think he's doing a lot of damage right now with, you know, with his rhetoric and everything else.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, well, that's a whole other episode. I'm very grateful to you for being here. And. And I just. I'm just so impressed by all the extraordinary things you've done.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

We.

[Mark Halperin]

And ladies and gentlemen, we barely scratched the surface. We've talked about a little bit, but as I said, he knows a lot about a lot and. And couldn't be more grateful to you for making time. Vivek, thank you.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

It was an honor to talk to you because you're a celebrity on your own.

[Chris Salcedo]

Maybe not.

[Mark Halperin]

How many of the questions I asked you had you never been asked before? Rough percentage.

[Vivek Wadhwa]

Most of them were very different because normally I do interviews on specific topics. The same old bs. You're. You're taking me everywhere, so.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, all right. I'm glad. I'm very grateful to you for being here and look forward to having you back any day. Best of luck with the company. Break a leg. That's it for today's program. We'll be back on Tuesday. Brand new episode. Hope everybody has a great weekend. As always, please tell your friends you're an extra. They should be an extra, too. They should be part of our community, listening to the show, watching the show. Subscribe to the program on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts so you always know what's coming. Next up.