Next Up with Mark Halperin
Episode Title: Megyn Kelly on Epstein, MAGA Fury, the Loyalty Test Trump Didn’t Expect, Plus the End of the Elites
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host/Author: MK Media
Description: Next Up with Mark Halperin delivers unique political insight and reporting, featuring timely conversations with prominent voices in politics, media, and policy.
Introduction
In this episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin, host Mark Halperin delves into the enduring Jeffrey Epstein saga and its broader implications on American politics and societal trust. Joining him are two influential figures: Charlie Kirk, President and CEO of Turning Point USA, and Megyn Kelly, host of The Megyn Kelly Show and contributor to AM Update on SiriusXM. Together, they explore the complexities surrounding the Epstein case, President Trump's response, the loyalty of his supporters, and the growing disenchantment with America's elite institutions.
Discussion with Charlie Kirk
Timestamp: [06:25] – [36:09]
1. The Political Firestorm Surrounding Epstein
Mark Halperin opens the conversation by addressing the intense political backlash President Trump is facing due to the Epstein revelations. He asks Charlie Kirk whether he believes this controversy will have a lasting impact on Trump's political standing.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [06:38]: "B, I'm on the second one."
Indicating that he believes the scandal will fade away and won't significantly harm Trump.
2. Trump's Reaction and Loyalty Test
The discussion shifts to Trump's public statements about his supporters, where he challenges their loyalty by suggesting that true supporters should move beyond the Epstein issue.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [07:29]: "He really wants people to stop talking about it, and they won't. And he's used to being able to control his base better than this."
Highlighting Trump's frustration and his strategy to maintain control over his base.
3. Theories Behind Trump's Upset
Mark presents various theories about why Trump might be upset with the Epstein story, including potential personal or familial connections.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [09:12]: "I don't rule it out because he knew Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years. They were very close friends."
Acknowledging the long-term relationship between Trump and Epstein as a possible reason for Trump's agitation.
4. The Nature of Trump's Relationship with Epstein
Exploring the depth of Trump's relationship with Epstein, they discuss reports and rumors about the closeness and eventual fallout between the two.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [10:30]: "They definitely did see each other outside of just any professional setting and they were by all accounts close."
Affirming that Trump and Epstein had a personal relationship beyond mere professional interactions.
5. Congressional Republicans and the Epstein Case
Mark questions why Republican leaders in Congress are pushing for more disclosure on the Epstein case despite Trump's disapproval.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [21:34]: "Because their constituents are saying something very different than what the president is saying."
Explaining that Republican leaders are responding to their constituents' demands for transparency.
6. The Future of the Epstein Story
The conversation touches on the sustainability of the Epstein narrative in the media and among Trump's supporters.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [26:48]: "One of the things the President's suffering from right now is number one, it's a relatively slow news cycle."
Suggesting that the Epstein story may lose momentum due to limited new information.
7. Potential Testimonies and Disclosures
They discuss the possibility of Ghislaine Maxwell testifying and what impact that might have on the ongoing narrative.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [30:20]: "If Ghislaine Maxwell thought she could get a shortened prison term or a presidential pardon, she'd do it in a heartbeat."
Speculating on Maxwell's willingness to testify under certain incentives.
8. Steve Bannon's Relationship with Epstein
Mark inquires about former White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon's connection to Epstein.
Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk [32:59]: "There are reports out there that Steve Bannon has 15 hours of [interview footage]."
Indicating that Bannon had significant interactions with Epstein, though details remain unclear.
Discussion with Megyn Kelly
Timestamp: [54:40] – [59:07]
1. Megyn Kelly on Political Campaigns and Epstein
Mark transitions to speaking with Megyn Kelly, focusing on Trump's interactions regarding Epstein during political campaigns.
Notable Quote:
Megyn Kelly [55:23]: "The response was fantastic. The room was packed. We, we did really well."
Reflecting on her past interactions with Trump and gauging his stance on running for president.
2. Kelly's Views on Public Figures and Epstein
Kelly shares her perspective on various political figures' associations with Epstein, including Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew.
Notable Quote:
Megyn Kelly [58:46]: "He [Epstein] has got a problem. ... The island was an absolute cesspool."
Expressing her condemnation of Epstein's actions and the environments he cultivated.
3. Political Implications for Kelly's Potential Candidacy
They discuss whether associations with Epstein could pose political challenges for Kelly if she decides to run for office.
Notable Quote:
Megyn Kelly [59:07]: "He could end up being a political problem."
Acknowledging that Epstein's legacy could impact Kelly's political aspirations.
Mark Halperin's Monologue: The Decline of Trust in American Institutions
Toward the end of the episode, Mark Halperin provides an in-depth analysis of the broader societal issues contributing to the Epstein controversy's significance.
1. Historical Context of Institutional Trust
Halperin traces the erosion of trust in American institutions back to pivotal events like Watergate and the Vietnam War, highlighting how elites have consistently benefited while the general populace has suffered.
2. Contemporary Factors Affecting Trust
He identifies modern issues such as income inequality, the rise of China, rapid cultural changes, and the fragmentation of media as exacerbating public distrust.
Notable Quote:
Mark Halperin: "The elites win, everybody else loses and gets the shaft."
Summarizing the central grievance fueling the current political climate.
3. The Epstein Story as a Symbol of Systemic Failures
Halperin argues that the Epstein case embodies the systemic lack of accountability among America's powerful elites, serving as a catalyst for the ongoing demand for transparency and justice.
4. The Role of Digital Media and Polarization
He discusses how digital media amplifies polarization, allowing individuals to perpetuate narratives that reinforce distrust and conspiracy theories.
5. Restoring Faith Through Accountability
Concluding his monologue, Halperin emphasizes the necessity of restoring trust in institutions by holding elites accountable, addressing economic disparities, and ensuring transparency.
Notable Quote:
Mark Halperin: "What people want is to believe in America again, to believe that this will end with accountability for elites."
Highlighting the fundamental demand driving the public's engagement with the Epstein story.
Conclusion
This episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin meticulously examines the multifaceted impact of the Jeffrey Epstein case on American politics and societal trust. Through insightful discussions with Charlie Kirk and Megyn Kelly, supplemented by Halperin's comprehensive monologue, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how deep-seated distrust in institutions and the elite intersects with high-profile scandals. The episode underscores the pivotal moment America faces in restoring faith and accountability, positioning the Epstein narrative as both a symptom and a catalyst of broader systemic challenges.
Notable Quotes Recap:
- Charlie Kirk [06:38]: "B, I'm on the second one."
- Charlie Kirk [07:29]: "He really wants people to stop talking about it, and they won't."
- Charlie Kirk [09:12]: "I don't rule it out because he knew Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years."
- Charlie Kirk [10:30]: "They definitely did see each other outside of just any professional setting."
- Charlie Kirk [21:34]: "Because their constituents are saying something very different."
- Charlie Kirk [26:48]: "It's a relatively slow news cycle."
- Charlie Kirk [30:20]: "If Ghislaine Maxwell thought she could get a shortened prison term or a presidential pardon, she'd do it in a heartbeat."
- Megyn Kelly [55:23]: "The response was fantastic. The room was packed."
- Megyn Kelly [58:46]: "The island was an absolute cesspool."
- Megyn Kelly [59:07]: "He could end up being a political problem."
- Mark Halperin: "The elites win, everybody else loses and gets the shaft."
- Mark Halperin: "What people want is to believe in America again, to believe that this will end with accountability for elites."
For more insights and detailed discussions, visit Next Up with Mark Halperin on YouTube or subscribe to the podcast on your preferred platform.