← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
The 5 Biggest Threats to Donald Trump
01:12:06
Mark Halperin’s reported monologue steps back to break down the five biggest threats facing Donald Trump and his presidency beyond the Iran situation. He also examines what Keir Starmer’s resignation reveals about immigration, populism, and the changing political landscape in Europe. Then, Cabot Phillips and Hyma Moore join the conversation to discuss why healthcare is becoming a decisive voting issue and why Obamacare hasn't fixed our system. Plus - as Hakeem Jeffries potentially gets closer to becoming House Speaker, does he have what it takes to do the job? Lean: Get 20% off plus free rush shipping when you go to https://TAKELEAN.com and use code NEXTUP Chapter: For free and unbiased Medicare help, dial (262) 454-0503 to speak with my trusted partner, Chapter, or go to https://askchapter.org/mark *Paid Partnership*” Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare A...
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Mark Halpern
Let's start the week with a bang. Mark Halpern here, editor in chief of two Way and your host. Everything NEXT up. Thank you for being nexters. Thank you for joining me on our journey to to everything that's next up. Grateful to you for being here. Two fine guests today. Cabot Phillips, senior editor at the Daily Wire. He hosts Wired in Live. And Jaime Moore will be here, my colleague at two way, principal at Cornerstone Government affairs, and former top official at the Democratic National Committee. Grateful to them for being here and eager to talk to them both, both about everything that's in the news. And we'll get to that in just a moment. But before that, my reported monologue. I have been digging in deep as you know, if you listen to me, watch me here and on two WAY on Iran I'm super interested in. I just think it's such an important story. But I got started to hear from folks this week and next week, last week, to be honest, too much Iran, you know, story doesn't change that much. You're digging too deep on it. I respectfully disagree. I just think it's such an important story. I also think it's a really interesting story. But I got to thinking, well, you know, you always want to if you're thinking next up, you always want to be thinking what's next up outside the big story. Not be that second grader who joins all this other second graders around the ball, but head down field and think about what else is happening. So last 24 hours I've done some crash reporting with folks and say what are the five biggest threats to Donald Trump besides Iran? That could upend him politically. That could mean for the midterms, it could mean his polling numbers. It could be his place in history. What are things outside Iran? Because, you know, those who are bearish about Iran say that's it, that's the big threat to Trump. But I ask people, leave Iran aside. All the implications of Iran. Where are the biggest threats? So today do 50%, Letterman style, don't have top 10, but top five, five biggest threats to Donald Trump that could upend his presidency in history or before the midterms or ever. So let's dig in and we'll do in reverse order for dramatic reveal. And we'll start with something that's going to be ripe this week as Donald Trump goes up to Capitol Hill and has lunch with Republican senators. Number five biggest threats to Donald Trump that you're not thinking about is the Senate Republicans. This is a group that has often rubbed up against Trump in a negative way, clashed with Trump, but in the main, no doubt has been supportive of him. Now, you've got a group of the perennials who often clash with him. Mitch McConnell, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, sometimes Rand Paul. But joining them are Republican senators who either he forced into retirement or helped defeat at the ballot box. And that's Tillis of South of North Carolina, Cornyn of Texas and Cassidy of Louisiana. They're all going to not all be at the lunch necessarily, but most of them, I think, based on reporting will be at the lunch. And all of them, one way or another, seem to be gearing up both between now and the midterms and potentially for those who are returning after to be thorns and Donald Trump's side in a material way. Not just good copy for Capitol Hill reporters, but seriously willing to and some cases committed to opposing his agenda. Here's a quote from John Cornyn. This is 8:12, please. He's done a bunch of interviews. All these, all these senators who he beat, Cassidy and Cornyn and Tillis who he forced into retirement, all of them talk about Donald Trump now in ways you haven't heard very many members of Congress talk about him. Here's what Cornyn said in an interview. He said the president seems to revel in chaos, which is so different from any other leader that I've ever seen. I don't know about you, but I like to minimize the chaos in my life. He just seems to revel in it. This group of senators, why are they such a big threat to him? Because they can bring his legislative agenda to a halt and they can build alliances if they want to in the new Congress, those who are coming back with Democrats to really send the Trump presidency in A different direction and they can speak out against him if they choose. And we've seen that here. This Corning quote is just the tip of the iceberg. As he becomes a lamer and lamer lame duck, these folks may well hold the balance of power in their hands and keep Trump from getting much done legislatively. It's already been a challenge in this term, but it could make it next to impossible for him to pass anything. Okay, number four. The number four biggest threat is Jeffrey Epstein. The legacy and ghost of Jeffrey Epstein. Even some folks close to the President say there's no doubt that when he has been seemingly threatened by the prospects of a Jeffrey Epstein reveal, he has behaved in a very defensive way. Now, I'm not here to tell you that he did anything illegal or even necessarily quote, unquote immoral. There's accusations out there that other people give currency to and oxygen to that I won't because there's no basis to think they're true. But he's never explained his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. As I said, he frequently goes on the attack rather than just ignoring it. Here's a couple of truth social posts from earlier this year. This is a four please. Donald Trump says not only was I friendly with Jeffrey Epstein, but based upon information that was just that has just been released by the Department of Justice. Epstein and a sleazebag lying author named Michael Wolf conspired in order to damage me and or my presidency. So much for the radical left's hope against hope, some of whom I'll be suing. Additionally, unlike so many people that like to talk trash, I never went to the infested Epstein island. But almost all of these crooked Democrats and their donors did. Always going on offense saying, you know, it was, it's about the Democrats calling it a hoax and, and, and, and drawing lines and saying, well, I went, didn't go the island. Well, he did fly on his plane. He did have a relationship with him that's never been explained. And then the thing that's caused the people I asked about, you know, why, why would you put Epstein as a threat to his presidency on the list? The thing most people pointed to is not something Donald Trump did, but something Melania Trump did. Remember back in April when she held this press conference about Jeffrey Epstein. S6 please. The individuals lying about me are devoid of ethical standards, humility and respect. I do not object to their ignorance, but rather I reject their mean spirited attempts to defame my reputation. I never been friends with Epstein. Donald and I were invited to the same parties as Epstein from time to time. So I called it a press conference. It wasn't. She didn't take questions, nor did she or her aides ever really explain why she did what she did, why come out. She doesn't hold many events like that. And what people say is, and, and you see this in, in the scenes about Epstein in the new book by Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman. The level of concern within the administration is high. And the reason, besides the unknown facts about the relationship between the Trumps and Jeffrey Epstein, the reason why people think this is so potentially dangerous to him politically is because any disclosure that comes out now, after they claim that they put all the information out, after all the denials, is really going to hurt him with his base, which rarely happens. The Epstein matter has been one of the few issues that's really cleaved Donald Trump from some portions of his supporters. You see it also in Iran, of course, but this is going to be a threat till it isn't. And you've got that House committee still looking into it. You still got Maxwell in prison. The Spidey sense of many of my sources is to keep an eye on Epstein as something that could be a threat to Donald Trump's political standing. Okay, number three, the third biggest threat to Donald Trump that you're not thinking about is health care. Health care has been a massive issue for the country for decades. And the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare passed. Democrats said this is going to be the solution. It has not been a great thing for everybody. But what we do know is that Donald Trump, who's been promising to replace the Affordable Care act for a long time, has never done it. And his own pollsters have told him for a while health care is a potential Achilles heel. This one, well, potentially a problem for his legacy, but it's also more immediately a problem for him. In the midterms, poll after poll shows you how big an issue this is. The president's own pollsters have said to him and publicly focus on health care. Where do, where do Republicans go when they focus on health care? Lowering the cost of prescription drugs. And Donald Trump has done stuff about that and understandably is frustrated that he doesn't get a ton of credit for it. They also attack the Affordable Care act and say the reason we have such a bad health care system is because the Affordable Care Act. But the reality is it was true in his first term, it's true now. Donald Trump has said he'll do something about it, but he hasn't. Here's a post from earlier this year. In January, Donald Trump expressing feelings about health care. He says, great meeting on health care this morning. The federal government money must be paid not to the insurance companies, but directly to the people. Great health care will be provided at a substantially reduced cost. There's a theory about how to improve health care, but never actually carried out. And here's what was carried out. The passage of the one big beautiful bill, his signature legislative accomplishment. Here's a statistic. This is from A11, please. This is from the Georgetown University center for Children and Families analysis of government data. You may not believe that this is 100% correct, but they say over 5 million people lost their health care coverage. You can bet Democrats will be running on this. Democrats have almost always in the last few decades had an advantage in polling. When voters are asked, who do you trust more to deal with health care? It's about a 20 point gap now. And again, you know, this is a big issue for voters. How do you know? Lots of polling data you could look at. Here's one. This is eight. Thirteen, please. Axios said, what's asked voters, what's the likelihood that you'd vote for a candidate who supported reinstating the enhanced Affordable Care act subsidies that were eliminated by the one big beautiful bill? 45% of voters said they'd be more likely to vote for someone who took that position. 16% less likely. 22, no difference. 45% is a big number. And you don't find very many Republican candidates saying that the subsidies should come back. It's a largely unified Democratic Party around that position. So if, if the Democrats have a big blue wave in the fall, if Donald Trump leaves office with some negative statistics about people's well being, despite being a Maha supporter, you can bet that health care will be a big part of it. And just watch as the general election, TV ads and digital ads start to come out, the Republicans will try to say blame it on Barack Obama. The Republicans will talk about prescription drug prices. But Democrats are going to play into this great Trump vulnerability that he has yet to solve in the presidency. Number two, most biggest threat to Donald Trump, that's not everybody's thinking about is the economy. This one, people are thinking about it. Obviously it's always a part of the midterm conversation. But the reason I put it on the list is the White House said the economy was going to get better by the second quarter. Now they're saying, well, it'll get better just in the nick of time before the election. And now that the president has hopefully opened the Strait of Hormuz back up. Dropping oil prices, dropping gas prices could play a big role in fixing this. But it remains a very confused economic picture. The White House officials can go on TV and they can cite statistics literally every week that are positive. Not just the booming stock market, but there are other signs in the economy, macro and micro, that things are going well and the AI boom continues to propel certain stocks higher and higher. The reason why I put this on the list is people can get caught up in the data and in this case, the conflicting data about the economy. But the reason why this is a threat to Donald Trump short and long term is because the answer is still not there. Is Donald Trump going to figure out a theory of the case to get the economy to grow in the current situation, particularly the overhang of Iran, the overhang of Russia, Ukraine, the trade war, which has had mixed results, can he develop before the midterms and then in his last two years in office, can he develop a rhythm on the economy in the private sector that will get people to feel good? The statistics don't make them feel good because there's. For all the positive statistics, there's negative one, there's the long term overhang we've talked about here before on the economy and people's negative feelings. And then there is AI. What an extraordinary story on so many levels. But the economic story of AI, the promises of it, the possibilities of it, are far less intriguing to people than their fear about the data centers being built in their, in their neighborhoods, about the threat to jobs, about all the things about AI that scare people rather than make them excited. So keep an eye on whether the administration can turn around not the macro statistics, but the macro sensibilities of the American people about the economy. And then finally is the big one, and this is a big one for history, not for the short term. Putin and Xi, Russia and China. The President has had from the beginning of this term a long term play. Venezuela was about Russia and China, particularly China. Cuba is about Russia and China, and finally Iran is about Russia and China. But all goes back to trying to get leverage over those two dictators. And I have to give credit to the President, he's understood as well or better than his predecessors, the responsibility of the President of the United States above all else, is to try to figure out how to get leverage over these guys. This President has not always done it in a way that seems linear or seems hawkish enough to some ears, but it's always with a purpose. It's always with an eye towards how do you get the United States free from having to deal with China and Russia. Here's the President speaking while he was in France earlier last week, rather earlier this month, talking about Russia and China in the context of Iran. This is S5.
- [15:44]
Donald Trump
Please thank China. President Xi, I was with him and he stayed neutral, totally neutral. And I appreciate it. And I want to thank Vladimir Putin. He was very neutral. They could have made it much more difficult for us. And I want to say it, you know, somebody would say, oh, that's terrible. He's thinking, he's thinking President Xi of China. Well, let me tell you, I had a long talk with him. You know, they have shoulder weapons to knock down airplanes that. It's not like the real deal, but they're accurate. They're fairly accurate. I said, I would really appreciate. You're not giving or selling any of that stuff to Iran. And you know what? For the most part, he didn't.
- [16:32]
Mark Halpern
So he talks all the time about his good relationship with those two guys. If he leaves office under the current terms, and the Iran war has really put a monkey wrench in this, in this project, he will not have gotten substantial leverage over them. The fact that until the Iran, Ukraine, Russia, Ukraine war ends, his leverage over Putin is going to be minimized. And Iran and the quagmire of Iran has also hurt his efforts to get leverage over China. We all know the trade war was really set back and leveraged through trade and terrorists was set back because the rare earth minerals challenge. The President's trying to fix it with his aides. They're trying to figure out how they can have more success, for instance, dealing with Cuba, how they can do more with manufacturing in the United States, how they can do more about independence from China with rare earth minerals, where progress is being made. But the clock is ticking. This presidency, and Donald Trump is well aware of this, this will be over in a blink of an eye. He does not have much time, both before and after the midterms, to address the leverage that China and Russia still has over the United States, still has over him. And although he tries to work the relationship, what he calls a friendship, he really, I believe, knows from talking to people around him, these are two ruthless guys who want to kill the United States politically, geopolitically. And he is in danger, if he does not start making progress soon, militarily, economically, diplomatically, of having to leave office with China. And Russia is still an enormous threat, not just the United States in terms of national security, but to Donald Trump's, presidency, his strength politically and his capacity to be seen as a transformational figure, which is what he wants above all else. All right, that is my reported monologue on the five biggest threats to Donald Trump that could upend his place politically, both short and long term. Let me know what you think. Does my list have the right elements on it in the right order? Have I overstated or understated anything? Let me know. Send me an email with your thoughts. It's nextup@devil may caremedia.com Again, send me an email@nextupevilmaycaremedia.com and let me know what you think, good or bad. Always love to hear from nexters. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, the great Cabot Phillips will be here. He is, of course, the Daily Wire senior editor and host of Wired in Live. The great Cabot Phillips is next up. So everybody's talking about weight loss injections because the results can be so dramatic. They work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite. So what if you're looking to lose weight but not interested in painful weekly injections, especially when you hear about some of those intense side effects? That's why doctors create a weight loss supplement. It's called Lean, and the results there are remarkable. The studied ingredients in Lean have been shown to lower your blood sugar, burn fat by converting it into energy, and curb your appetite and cravings so you're not as hungry. But listen, lean is not for the casual dieter with only a few pounds to lose. The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition created Lean for frustrated dieters with 10 or more pounds to lose. Let's get you started now with 20% off and free rush shipping so you can add Lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan right away. Visit takelean.com Enter the code nextup for your discount. That's promo code nextup@takelean.com all right, ladies and gentlemen, next up and joining me now, Cabot Phillips, Daily Wire senior editor. He's also the host of Wired in Live, which streams on DailyWire.com every Monday through Thursday at 4pm Eastern Time. Now available to you on the convenient podcast format, Apple, Spotify and everywhere else. Cabot, welcome back. Thank you for being here.
- [20:22]
Cabot Phillips
Great to be back, Mark. Thanks so much.
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Mark Halpern
Are you a World cup guy at all?
- [20:26]
Cabot Phillips
I'm not a World cup guy, but I'm an America guy and I have been recklessly patriotic watching these matches. And I'm learning a lot about soccer that I didn't care to know beforehand. But now I'm I'm all about it. It's been so fun.
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Donald Trump
Yeah.
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Mark Halpern
I asked two questions of everybody I talked to and so I'm not going to ask you why does the rest of the world love soccer and America mostly doesn't? What is it? Why? Why do we have a different taste than the rest of the world? What's your.
- [20:52]
Cabot Phillips
I can't help but wonder how much of it is American wealth where we can afford, the average kid can afford to play sports that might be more expensive, that might require more resources. And in a lot of countries around the world where all you need is a ball in an open area, it might be more accessible for the rest of the world. So that would probably come to mind. But also Americans are a violent culture and I think that's a healthy thing when it comes to athletics. We enjoy sports that, that exude manliness and exude, you know, contact. And so that's why we love the sports that we love.
- [21:22]
Donald Trump
Yeah.
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Mark Halpern
I'm going to do you a huge favor not post that on social media because football fans, real football, soccer fans will say you've never seen a proper match if you don't think soccer is a violent sport.
- [21:32]
Cabot Phillips
Yeah.
- [21:33]
Mark Halpern
But I'm going to do you the favor and spare you that. The other question I asked, folks, I talked about health care in the monologue. Why is America the only industrialized democracy that doesn't have single payer universal health care?
- [21:44]
Cabot Phillips
I wish I had a more clear answer for that one. I don't know. I think that we are, if you asked me to predict where we are 50 years from now, I would say that we do get to that point. I think young people especially have been unbelievably disillusioned with the health care system in a way that I think past generations maybe have not been. And so I do think that we ultimately get to that point. Now, I would say that would be a negative thing for where I'm coming from, but I do think we get there.
- [22:15]
Mark Halpern
Yeah, I mean I, you know, I'm regular listeners and viewers know here I'm just a, I'm just for America here. I just try to understand things and I'm not for single payer. I'm not against single payer. I do think you look at the experience with other countries, people talk about the long lines. On the other hand, people don't have anxiety about health care and that's good. Right. We should want to live in a society where families don't have anxiety, particularly when it comes to their kids. Right. You don't want parents in America, the richest country ever, to worry. How am I going to afford the proper health care for my kid? I was on vacation in Italy a few years ago, and I had a health problem. It wasn't catastrophic, but I had to go to the emergency room, and the doctor came in, he explained what they were going to do. And then he said, he said, do you have Italian health insurance? And I said, no. He said, well, this is going to cost you $65,000, and you won't be able to get reimbursed for it. And I thought, oh, my God, my vacation's been ruined. And then he just broke out laughing. He said, no, just kidding. It's all free. And, you know, I mean, again, it wasn't free because somebody paid for his time and somebody paid for the treatment I got. But you can be the biggest free market person in the world. The most vociferous opposition to the Affordable Care act. And still we shouldn't live in a country where parents have to go to bed at night or stay up at night saying, my kid has a disease or needs an operation and I can't afford it. So what's the. What's the solution to that? If it's not single payer. And again, I'm not advocating for single payer. If it's not single pair, how do we live in a country that's so rich and figure out how to make sure families can have less anxiety about health costs?
- [23:56]
Cabot Phillips
Yeah, I think the solution is transparency. I think people get so frustrated by the system and maybe they misplace their outrage, and it's justifiable outrage when you get medical bills and you're seeing the thousands of dollars that are charged for minor procedures, when you're seeing $80 for a Benadryl just because you're getting it in the hospital. The outrage is legitimate, but I think the transparency is the key and people understanding why insurance companies are able to get away with doing this in the first place. A lot of the cronyism that goes on between the federal government and bureaucracy and those insurance companies in the first place, I think if more people were aware, they might place their anger where it actually belongs. Which is, I would say, with the bureaucracy and with the healthcare companies and not the actual idea of private healthcare in the first place.
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Jaime Moore
Right.
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Mark Halpern
One of our challenges that's unique is this historical accident where employers started offering health insurance after World War II as a way to compete for workers. And now we have a very high percentage of people in this country get their Health insurance through work. I do. You probably do as well, I would guess, unless you're on your family policy. So it doesn't mean you can't switch jobs. But when you go to a new employer, they may not offer the same kind of policy. You may get a job where you don't, you don't get it. So should we try to figure out how to sever that tie and health insurance is no longer offered the way it is through employers or that's a good thing or it's something we can't change. Would you, if you were in charge, would you try to sever that tie where so many of us get our health insurance through work?
- [25:28]
Cabot Phillips
I'm a big choice guy. I think you give people the choice if they want to work at a place that's offering. Absolutely. Go work at a place if that's a big benefit for you. If that's going to make it more likely that you work there and stay there. If you're happy with it. Absolutely. You know the complete.
- [25:42]
Mark Halpern
I'm asking you, I'm asking a different question though. I'm from a macro point of view from our health care system which is a crazy quilt of different things. Is it macro good for our country that that exists or would we be better off as a society, not as an individual? Yeah, that, that, that be severed.
- [25:58]
Cabot Phillips
I don't know if it has to be macro though. I don't know if you have to decide one way or the other. But I'll, I'll adult hypothetical. I would say if the, if the two options are primarily through your employer or primarily through the government in a single payer system, I would still prefer the private route.
- [26:12]
Mark Halpern
Well, but how about the private. Right, but not through work. In other words, you just have a marketplace where people, you can buy your health insurance on your own.
- [26:19]
Cabot Phillips
That would seem like a better alternative to me.
- [26:21]
Mark Halpern
Yeah, yeah. I just, I think the employer thing just kind of makes people lazy and I've tended to work in places with even in my startup now, even a two way, I've got a very good plan, covers a lot of stuff and it seems like part of what we need is we need a sweet spot where consumers, as you said, have a lot of information they can afford and they get health from the insurance company. They can afford to get what they need, but they're sophisticated consumers. So my prescriptions are 10 bucks or sometimes they're free or sometimes they're a dollar but they're never more than 10 bucks unless I get prescribed, you know, something Crazy. And I don't think that's quite enough. I think my doctor's gonna subscribe stuff to me, maybe a little carelessly. I think there should be a little bit more pain at the pump for me there. On the other hand, a lot of procedures that I need because I live in Manhattan, they're way too much, they're way too expensive. And I'm tempted sometimes to skip a thing because I just, as a consumer, I say that's not how I want to spend my money. So how's that balance, do you think, in the country? How should that be struck? Not how is it struck now, how should it be struck? Should people have a balance between out of pocket and what gets covered so that they make choices?
- [27:36]
Cabot Phillips
Yeah, I think when you're just pulling out of someone else's piggy bank, of course you're going to put a strain on a system if you're not the one that's footing the bill. And I also think the economic impact here is very important. Of you mentioned going through employers. I have had a dozen conversations over the last two or three years with friends who have had ideas for businesses they wanted to start, they wanted to go out on their own. And the first thing that comes up, especially for people my age with young kids, the first thing that often comes up is I just can't risk going and starting that business because I'd have to pay an ungodly amount of money every month for health insurance for my family. And right now I'm not paying nearly as much. I'm getting it through my employer. So I can't help but wonder how many businesses there are that we could be starting, how much of an economic benefit there'd be if that was not the calculus that was keeping people from going out.
- [28:22]
Mark Halpern
There's been some efforts to solve this, but, but it, but, but the young entrepreneurs should have a place they can go to pull together if necessary to be able to afford coverage. It's just a, it's just a huge, it's just a huge failure of the market now. And of course, part of that is about regulation and, and, and part of it's about governors, but a lot of it's about the federal government. So. All right, I want to ask you about Congress. A lot, lot's going on there with a very few number of days before the midterms to figure out what to do. What are things Congress, whether they're currently considering them or not. What are things you'd like Congress to do this year?
- [28:58]
Cabot Phillips
Yeah, I would like them to focus entirely on domestic policy and stay out as much as possible of the Iran stuff. Frankly, I think I understand the reflexive nature of Congress where they want to talk about what's going on in the news, but I would just prefer to see them prioritize the domestic issues. And I think, you know, the SAVE act obviously, is going to be the big thing. President Trump speaking to the, to the caucus tomorrow, Rick Scott inviting him, I think that's good news that I think bodes well for their priorities. I am still one of these people who's delusionally optimistic about the GOP chances in the midterms. I was looking this week at the midterm polling on the generic ballot question. I had assumed that there'd be at the start of the war, as it became less popular, there'd be a much bigger drop off. The week before the Iran war started on the generic ballot, Democrats were at 47.9% this morning. I checked. On average, they're at 47.9%. They have not gained a point despite the last four months. Republicans, over that same timeframe, they went down from 43.5 to percent to 42.7%. That's a rounding error. And so I have been very optimistic. Hey, they actually haven't lost that much ground. Democrats still seem to be at their ceiling. If Republicans can take the next four months, hone in on domestic issues, hopefully we see the Iran conflict start to fade a little bit and then we have the success that people on my side are hoping for.
- [30:20]
Mark Halpern
Leaving the politics aside, though, are there needs that you think they should be addressing? They're talking about a housing bill which they're close to getting done. They're talking about regulation of AI, protecting kids from AI. Are those important to you?
- [30:33]
Cabot Phillips
Absolutely. You mentioned the housing bill. Very rare to see these days this close to a midterm. Seeing bipartisan legislation get passed on housing, that was a bit of a surprise.
- [30:43]
Mark Halpern
Why do you think. Why do you think Democrats are doing that?
- [30:46]
Cabot Phillips
I think both sides just want something to get through on housing. And, you know, I don't know exactly why, but I think both sides want to have something they can point to. I'll give you an issue, though, Mark, that I think if one side could successfully capitalize on, it would help them in the midterms. Yeah, it's data centers. We know that the AI data center boom. We know it's great for states economically. We know what it does for state income tax. We know that there are a lot of GOP states that are proudly saying, hey, we want to be the future when it comes to data center creation. I have been stunned at the amount of grassroots pushback that's been bipartisan to these data centers. And I'm not saying it's a good thing. I think as a country we need to be, you know, leading the way on when it comes to data center creation. I'm not saying it's a good thing to ban them, but I am saying that this is a politically winning issue. I think if one party can become the party that's saying, hey, we're not going to stick these data centers in urban areas, we're not going to take away from rural areas and we're going to have some safer regulations when it comes to what it's doing to the water supply and, you know, the environment and people's health impacts. There's that big coalition on the right of the Maha crowd who is big on this issue. It's not just the hippie environmentalists, it's not just the anti tech crowd or the anti billionaire crowd. I think that could be a big issue if Republicans could capitalize on safely having these data centers. I don't think they're going to do it, but I think that would be an issue.
- [32:10]
Mark Halpern
I agree with you and you and I talk to the same kind of folks. Anybody who's doing polling or focus groups will tell you this is exploded as an area of concern, as you said, across the board, not just people in sandals and beads playing hacky sack. But this is a huge voter issue and, and you're right, nobody's capitalized on it as much as they might. Here's my question and I want you to dig deep for the why not restate the question. Why are voters so concerned about this? I know the laundry list of things using up water very loud. They don't like AI in general, but the level of knowledge about this thing is so much higher than their actual knowledge of what AI does. How did these voters learn about this? Is this. They're reading about it on social media. How are they so knowledgeable about the dangers of these giant facilities?
- [33:01]
Cabot Phillips
Well, I don't think that a lot of people are deeply knowledgeable on this. I think it's sort of the phenomenon you see where people see a few infographics on their Instagram, they see a few TikTok videos, they get very worked up about it. I think there's a few whys here. I think for some crowd, the why is, well, these are things that benefit the billionaire and now trillionaire class. And so it must be, you know, hurting me if it's something that they want. And so I think there's a reflective or reflexive nature to. If it's good for the billionaire class, it must be bad for me. I think that's part of it. I do think that there is more awareness now of people being concerned about the impact of technology. There are those viral stories of these bitcoin mining facilities in Texas where, you know, there was an increase in people coming down with chronic migraines, people coming down. There were higher rates of stillborn births. There were negative impacts for farm animals in the town. Those stories went very viral in a big portion of, you know, the electorate on social media. I think that has scared a lot of people. So I think that's part of it is the health impact of saying, hey. One, the most common thing I've heard from people is I don't know for sure if they're bad for me from a health standpoint. But we won't know for a decade, two decades. And I don't want to be a guinea pig. Guinea pig is the phrase that I hear a lot from average voters. I don't want to be a guinea pig. And so I do think there's that fear element from a. From a safety standpoint as well.
- [34:23]
Mark Halpern
I hear you. That's a great list. Thank you for that. Now, you're a free market guy, and you already said, you know, America needs these. You live in a. You live in a house in the suburbs, right?
- [34:33]
Cabot Phillips
I do.
- [34:34]
Mark Halpern
If they want to build one of these right behind your house, what would you say?
- [34:37]
Cabot Phillips
Well, it would be illegal because I intentionally bought a house that is bordered by a state park. And because I do.
- [34:44]
Mark Halpern
Humor me for the hypothetical. Humor me for the hypothetical. Let's say the state sells the park to some big company and they start to build it. Then you'd protest it.
- [34:53]
Cabot Phillips
Then you'd say, no, I would protest it. Yeah. And I'm on the NIMBY crowd in that regard. I would protest it. I would be opposed to that sort of thing. I actually. I never thought I would be this guy and I could disclose this. I've never told anyone this. Here in Nashville, they're about to build a gigantic data center right on the property that borders our zoo. I take my son to the zoo multiple times a month. It's a beautiful secluded area.
- [35:18]
Mark Halpern
What are the best two animals there?
- [35:21]
Cabot Phillips
The tiger. They only have one tiger. I wish there were multiple. The tiger. And then they have howler monkeys. That hard to Beat. And my son forces me to do the howler monkey noise to get the monkeys riled up. Maybe that's animal cruelty to get them riled up, but makes my son happy. But I found myself signing the petition to say, hey, can we not put this giant, ugly behemoth building right next to the zoo parking lot? Because I think, hey, there's got to be better places to put this thing. And I was shocked seeing Marsha Blackburn come out and give a statement saying, this is not where we should be putting a data center. This is concerning. We saw Freddie o', Connell, the mayor of Nashville, far left guy, come out and say, hey, this is not a good thing. We got to fight this. There's been bipartisan support there.
- [36:03]
Mark Halpern
They propose alternative sites.
- [36:05]
Cabot Phillips
I don't believe that they have yet, no.
- [36:07]
Mark Halpern
Yeah. All right. Interesting. All right. We close with two things. First, obligatory. Make the monkey noise.
- [36:19]
Cabot Phillips
I do that every day for my son.
- [36:21]
Mark Halpern
Every cutaway of your son. How does he react when you do that?
- [36:24]
Cabot Phillips
He does the same thing. He beats his chest because I take him to the park almost every single night, and he hangs on the monkey bars and goes, daddy, monkey noise. Daddy monkey noise. So I have a lot of practice.
- [36:33]
Mark Halpern
All right. The Prime Minister of of United Kingdom is stepping down, although he say he's staying till September. He might leave sooner. But I'm told, because of the magic of the pre interview, that you have a great story about deportation in the United Kingdom, which you will now tell us.
- [36:50]
Cabot Phillips
I love that. That your producer, Brian passed that along. I jokingly said, I don't know if I'm allowed to commentate on this. My commentary would be, hey, I'm glad that we don't have the same process in America, because we'd have a new president every six months, because it's very dangerous to be a leader in power right now for longer than a week before people sour on you. But, yes, I tried to work the Brexit campaign in 2016. Rubio had just dropped out. I needed a job. I called a friend on the Brexit campaign, said, can I? I applied, got hired. The day before I left, I called the campaign and said, do I need a work visa? I hadn't even thought of this. They said, no, you're an American. You'll be fine. Just come on over. Don't worry about it.
- [37:25]
Mark Halpern
You're on the pro Brexit side?
- [37:27]
Cabot Phillips
Yes. Correct. And I said, okay, I'll leave you there for three or four months. No big deal. I land at Heathrow Airport. My first mistake I did not have a return ticket, so that got me flagged in the system. These gentlemen in suits come over to the customs area and take me down four flights of stairs into the bowels of Heathrow. They put me in a holding cell with actual iron bars. It was myself and another gentleman, a Syrian refugee. And I was there for about four hours. More gentlemen in suits showed up, and they took me to an interrogating room with the mirrors on the wall. They had a tripod camera set up. They asked me an hour's worth of questions, my opinions of Donald Trump and the Muslim ban and the border wall. They asked me, you know, they showed me my social media and said, why do you follow These six pro Brexit accounts? And the address you listed is an individual where you're going to live. That's an individual who has worked on pro Brexit causes. Are you here to work on the campaign? And I'm thinking, I don't know my rights. I don't want to make this an international news story. Rubio employee gets arrested in the uk. So I just. I said, I imagine that I would give advice if people were to ask me the most embarrassing part, Mark, they said, okay, if you're a tourist, surely you've got a trip planned. So they gave me a piece of paper, told me to write down 10 tourist locations. I've been to London before. I know more than 10 tourist sites. But when that camera's blinking in your face, I folded under the bright lights. I got to like number eight. And they said, you expect us to believe that you don't know more than eight sites in London and you're a tourist? So then they took me back to the holding cell. I spent the night there. I may have shed a single tear in that holding cell. I was very scared. I thought my life was ruined. And then more folks showed up. They issued me a summons, which is actually on the wall behind me. It's framed on the wall behind me, announcing that I had been denied entry to the UK and that I was banned from entering the UK upon appeal. I could go to the consulate and appeal it, but I'm banned from the uk. Best part, Mark, they take me with armed guards to the airplane. They say, we're sending you back to your last port of entry. You're going to Charlotte. They take me to the plane. The armed guards call the pilot out of the cockpit. They give him my passport and say, give this to him when you're on American soil. They then escort me through the aisle on a Fully boarded plane, everyone looking at me like I'm Jason Bourne. And they send me. I have my own row on the plane and they sit me down and they send me back. And that is how I was banned from the uk.
- [39:44]
Mark Halpern
All right, couple follow ups. First of all, did they let you make a phone call? Did you call your host?
- [39:49]
Cabot Phillips
I did not get a phone call. Nope.
- [39:50]
Mark Halpern
No. And have you looked into it in terms of did they, did they. Were the procedures the right ones or was that overkill?
- [39:56]
Cabot Phillips
My understanding is that, yes, it was correct. I was there to work. It was ignorance on my part. I did not think I needed to work visa, and I do think it was a little bit of overkill. I did talk to an immigration attorney. He said you might be able to get it overturned, but I'd wait for the government to be a little more favorable. Let Brexit fade a bit before you try.
- [40:14]
Mark Halpern
And currently it's a lifetime ban.
- [40:16]
Cabot Phillips
Yep. They said until further notice. Until that, I, I could overturn the process. I'd have to go to the consulate in D.C. and apparently it's a pretty expensive process.
- [40:24]
Mark Halpern
Could you go to Wales? Could you go to Scotland?
- [40:27]
Cabot Phillips
That I'm not sure about, because I actually went to the Cayman Islands and I landed and I saw a picture of the Queen on the wall and I thought, I didn't even. Am I going to be allowed in here? And I was, so I would assume I'm good.
- [40:38]
Mark Halpern
And who paid for your return flight?
- [40:40]
Cabot Phillips
The British government? I did not pay for it.
- [40:42]
Mark Halpern
That's ridiculous. Yeah. Okay. And finally, when you told your host what had happened, what did they say?
- [40:48]
Cabot Phillips
They were very deeply apologetic.
- [40:50]
Mark Halpern
I bet they were as well they should have been.
- [40:52]
Cabot Phillips
And I thought Brexit was going to lose at the time, but I thought, well, it'll be a fun experience. It would have been a nice thing to have on my resume, but I ended up meeting my wife two weeks later in America, so I never would have met my wife. So it was worth it.
- [41:03]
Mark Halpern
That's a compelling story, I have to say. And I was going to cheer for England in the World Cup. I'm going to reconsider.
- [41:11]
Cabot Phillips
Thank you. That means a lot to me.
- [41:13]
Mark Halpern
Cabot, tell everybody about your show, where and when it's on, how they can access it.
- [41:17]
Cabot Phillips
Wired in. It's live on Daily Wire every Monday through Thursday, 4pm Eastern. You can also listen on Apple and Spotify hour long news show. We talk to five or six guests every single day. Today we've got Senator Rick Scott, Senator Ron Johnson, a few other folks, but we talked about DC Politics, culture, all sorts of fun stuff.
- [41:36]
Mark Halpern
So contrary to what it says here in my notes, it's not a cooking show.
- [41:38]
Cabot Phillips
It is not a cooking show. If it were, though, I'd make a mean rack of lamb on there.
- [41:43]
Mark Halpern
Yeah, lamb is great. Cabot, thanks for being here.
- [41:46]
Cabot Phillips
Thank you, Mark. Always a pleasure.
- [41:48]
Mark Halpern
Grateful don't don't miss Cabot show every Monday through Thursday. Next up, we'll talk a little bit about the United Kingdom and Keir Starmer's exit as prime Minister and what it means here in the United States. That conversation is next up. If you're 64 or older, here's the very advice I would give a friend. Check your Medicare plan, especially if you have a Medicare supplement. Here's why. Identical supplement plans can have precisely the same coverage and yet wildly different prices. That's how crazy our Medicare system is. Depending on what you happen to see or what you miss, you could be dramatically overpaying for literally the exact same coverage benefits for everything. And you're none the wiser unless you know to go looking chapter does the looking for you. They're the only Medicare advisors that compare every plan nationwide, every carrier, and every rate. Their advisors aren't paid to push one plan over another. If you're already on the best rate when they check, they'll tell you that. But if not, they'll help you make the switch to a better plan. They've helped many folks in my audience save thousands on their premiums alone. That is real money. So if you're turning 65 or already on Medicare, give my friends over chapter a call. They are a free resource for this audience and can review your options in under 20 minutes. Call them now. 262-454-0503. Again, call the folks at chapter 262-454-0503.
- [43:19]
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- [44:21]
Jaime Moore
All right.
- [44:22]
Mark Halpern
At the start of the week, Keir Starmer announced he was going to resign as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, facing a wave of growing pressure. It's been going on for a while, for weeks really, to resign. As Brits have grown angry and angrier over a big issue, mass migration and terrible cases of violence committed by people who were immigrants to the United Kingdom. We saw with Brexit foreshadowing Donald Trump's rise and the era of the outsider and the anti establishment and populist sentiment. Now we're seeing in the United Kingdom something that was foreshadowed by Donald Trump. Several of these incidents in Britain have taken the Internet and social media by storm. They've ignited protests and riots all across the British Isles. And just a few weeks ago, one of those cases, a Sudanese man was seen on camera attacking someone in Belfast. Another man taking a knife to his throat and appearing to try to behead him. Captured on camera. That video and the frustrations that have grown for quite some time over mass migration have reached a tipping point in Northern Ireland where people rioted and burned buildings and cars and attacked police officers. And then there's the notable case of Henry Novak in Southampton. A young man who was stabbed and killed by a Sikh man who told police that he was defending himself from Henry Novak, but that in fact he was actually the victim of a racist attack. The reality Henry was the victim and was attacked going home after a night hanging out with friends. The police automatically brought, originally brought, bought the claim of racism and ignored Henry's pleas for help as he laid on the ground bleeding. Tragic and stunning case. He eventually died from his wounds. And there's Also this, a 200 page report released by a member of British Parliament about those rape gangs alleging, alleging that these are grooming gangs made up mostly of Pakistani Muslim men assaulted, who assaulted hundreds of thousands of young girls in Britain for years. We don't know the exact number, but a big number. And then in April, a young woman in Brighton was raped by two Egyptian men and an Iranian man. One of those Egyptian men had previously been convicted of murder before he came to the uk. And the graphic image of him smiling as he left court, those men, amazingly, all staying in a fancy hotel for free, courtesy of the British government. These cases and more tell you a lot about what's going on in the UK what has happened in the United States earlier and what may spread now across Europe, it shows one thing quite clearly, unfettered mass migration. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for society, particularly when in a digital age crimes can be documented. It was a critical factor for President Trump. And now Europe is going to do, I believe what Europe, what the UK has now done. Their very liberal immigration policies throughout Europe. It's not just been Starmers uk. The Labor Party also paid a huge price for this, the wave election that just happened, losing tons of seats in local elections across the country. What's happening here is basic and it's what happened in the United States that allowed Donald Trump implausible that he would become the Republican nominee in 2016 and then president. But it happens now in the UK when politicians are seen by the voters as caring more about people from other countries than they do about their own citizens. That is what caused the frustration to boil over. That is why Starmer had to go in the view of members of his own party. Voters want responsible immigration. Countries often need immigration for economic purposes. Often they want to take in folks for purposes of being understanding of they're fleeing a country where they're not safe. The United States and the UK they have been long been amongst the most inviting and accommodating countries in the world to host immigrants legally and unfortunately in both cases illegally as well. This is not a story about being anti immigrant. It's not a story about being blind to the needs, economic and otherwise, for immigration. It's a story about politicians being punished when they don't listen to their constituents, when they don't do the most basic thing that government requires, which is to keep people safe and in the case of borders, managing the borders for their immigration, that is responsible. As we head into the midterms here, you can bet that Donald Trump will continue to talk about his successes on immigration and controlling the border. Polls show that the President isn't given quite as much of a boost now as he was before. But again wager on this. Both Donald Trump and Republican candidates will be contrasting their policies and their achievements on controlling the border and reining in mass immigration and illegal immigration and the impact that has on crime better than Joe Biden and the Democrats did. The Democrats continue to fail to in most cases step up and acknowledge that the failed policies of the last administration, the Biden administration, put them in a politically untenable position. It's a big reason why Donald Trump won the first time. It's a big reason why he was able to return to the White House in 2024. And it is amongst the singular reasons why the United Kingdom is about to get a new prime minister. Europe will be watching, and the smart European leaders will head this off before it costs them their jobs and the safety of their own people. All right, we're going to take a quick break. Next up, right here, we'll be joined by Jaime Moore, Democratic strategist. My colleague Yatuwei. 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- [51:20]
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- [52:08]
Mark Halpern
All right. Next up and joining me now, my colleague at Tuay, Jaime Moore, formerly a senior official at the Democratic National Committee and now a principal at the public affairs firm Cornerstone Government Affairs. Jaime, welcome back, sir. Thank you for being here. Talk to the monologue about health care and the advantage that Democrats have on that. You can see it in the ads that have already started. You can see it in the data that shows that your party has a huge advantage on health care. What are the strategists in the party, at the dnc, at the party committees, the campaigns? What's the way to maximize the advantage in the eyes of voters that Democrats have on the issue of health care broadly?
- [52:48]
Jaime Moore
You're right. Leader Jeffries is feeling very bullish about this. I think Lita Jeffries sees this as one of his thesis for, in theory of the case for taking the House back in November. And so here's, you know, this here's where we've been, you know, with with the two shutdowns over the past few months. Democrats have taken full advantage of the media around that and have you've seen Hakeem Jeffries and others on TV almost every day talking about health care specifically. And so what they're trying to do now is wrap this into a nice little bucket with affordability but also access. And, you know, we saw last week the Obama center open in Chicago and a lot of talk around in the Democratic circles around, you know, the Affordable Care act and just how they felt when that happened all those years ago. And so I think Democrats want to bring that feeling back to the country and say, hey, there's some possibility of hope and access and expansion around health care, not just status quo. And so what they've got to do right now and you just hit the nail on the head with these ads they're putting out. They've got to make sure that these ads, as we leave the primary season into the general election, these ads have got to be very specific, very direct. They've got to fit the message differently from, you know, Philly versus, you know, rural Pennsylvania. Rural Pennsylvania is facing a health care crisis around closing of hospitals. That's a really big thing for, for, for those residents. And so if Democrats can get those messages nuanced enough and just hit it hard on the airwaves, I think they can keep winning on that.
- [54:16]
Mark Halpern
Why do we have a health care crisis if the Affordable Care act was passed?
- [54:20]
Jaime Moore
I mean, look, this has been something that and you know even better than I do because you've covered it for a Long time, Mark. We've been talking about health care access for so long. And then on top of that, there's a public health aspect to it that brings a whole nother bucket of conversation. But look, the way our health care system works in America, particularly around the insurance aspect of it, and then versus and then, and then pairing that with the delivery aspect, which is hospitals, clinics, and medical institutions, there's always been a big, big disconnect on how to pay for those things. And so healthcare institutions are in some ways struggling to provide as much public health as they can, while insurance companies have, in some Democrats opinion, have used profit as their limit steps.
- [55:09]
Mark Halpern
Media really annoys me in its coverage of this issue. And a lot of issues the press doesn't cover. Well, it's because they don't have to deal with it. Right. They're not on the border. Right. But all reporters have health care. Most reporters I know complain about their coverage. And yet on both sides, I think the coverage is wanting. On the, on the side of the Democrats, rarely do you read anything about the good the Affordable Care act did. As I said earlier in the show, I'm not here to defend it or attack it, but it obviously extended coverage to a lot of people. And we shouldn't live in the only industrialized democracy that has all this insecurity about being able to pay health care coverage and costs for our kids. And then on the Republican side, Donald Trump's equally frustrated as Barack Obama. He's done all this stuff on lowering the cost of prescription drugs, and yet you don't read anything in the media or hear anything in the media about the. Is that real or not? As President Trump says, he has lowered the cost of prescription drugs dramatically. You do, you know, is that, is there validity to that claim or not?
- [56:13]
Jaime Moore
Yeah, I mean, I'm hearing from, you know, from, from, from colleagues in my firm who work in the health care space, and they say that that is true. But look, I think the greater issue, Mark, is this has been a patchwork sort of framework for a long time. And I think the conservatives and the liberals are just not agreeing on what the actual goal for health care is. And for a lot, it's about access. And to your point about the Affordable Care Act, I think the Democratic governors and then some Republican governors thereafter who expanded access to Medicaid in their states was about access. And a lot of that was framed in public health. If we can get as many people as healthy as possible, then we can lower the number of days that people are out sick. We can lower the number of days that teachers are not teaching. We can lower the number of days that kids are not in school. We can prevent pandemics from happening. So I think there's an esoteric sort of piece to it, but there's also a cost and access piece to it.
- [57:09]
Mark Halpern
Do you support single payer? Would you like to see a single payer health care law in the United States like other industrialized democracies have?
- [57:15]
Jaime Moore
I don't know, Mark. I think there is a, there is definitely some consideration to be made around that. Look, I, I love my health care. We have fantastic health care. And I think this is, this is sort of the crux of why a lot of people here in D.C. and in other places who have such great health care, they have a hard time understanding that some people do not have great health care. And if we were to go to a single payer system, we may have the ability to not only bring more people along into this process, but give better healthcare and better health. Access to more people, I think is the ultimate goal.
- [57:50]
Mark Halpern
So you speak for a lot of Democrats. I know you see the appeal of single payer, but you, but you, you have experience with the private sector and, and be reluctant to give that up. If a, if a Bernie Sanders supporter, an AOC supporter heard you say that, how do you think they would feel?
- [58:06]
Jaime Moore
Look, I, I don't know. I, you know, I, I think Bernie Sanders, cinder Sanders, you know, spent most of his career, you know, screaming that the singer payer framework and system is the best option. And obviously, you know, Rep. AOC and others in the Democratic socialist movement are taking that back up. But this is becoming another issue for the Democratic Party. You know, there are other litmus tests that are going to, you know, be apparent in the 2027, 2028 primaries. But I think this is going to be a clear issue. Where do Democrats stand on the single parent issue? I think AOC and Bernie Sanders would appreciate that. I understand that, you know, you guys know I'm from Louisiana and you know, and understand the rural community as best as I can and understanding that access has been eliminated for a lot of those individuals. And so I think they would know that. I get it, but understand that, you know, like a lot of people, you know, in my position, it is hard to imagine not having the kind of health care that I have right now.
- [59:04]
Mark Halpern
We've talked, you and I have talked about Israel is a divisive issue within the party, I think, I think healthcare is somewhat of a divisive issue. Although as you pointed out Leader Jeffries has found a way to bring the party together. As you think about the midterms, not beyond what other issues do you think the party disagrees about on policy that are significant divisions?
- [59:23]
Jaime Moore
Margaret, I love that you caveat not to go beyond. You know, I love talking about presidential politics more than the midterms. But look, I think there are three things that are sort of emerging right now. As for I'm going to talk about the Democratic side for a second, but the generational piece is something that we haven't given, I think, enough credence to. And you look at states all across the union, and when they've had the opportunity to either unseat an incumbent who they feel like it's been there too long or bring in someone with fresh blood, may not even be a younger person, but with fresh blood, they're taking that opportunity. And so Democrats are all across the country. They've been saying this since Joe Biden. This is a big piece of why 2024 got so, so, so Harry, for the Democrats, they've been screaming about this. So that's happening. The Israel peace has not gone anywhere yet. This is, you know, and you see the, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris and others go back out there and try to sort of, you know, get their peace out there on the table. But you know, what's happening in Michigan right now and you know, this and you've been, you and I have been following this for a while. That is a clear example of how this is going to continue to be a really important conversation for Democrats to have. And then this last piece, it's it's sort of an economic piece that is sort of wrapped in affordability, but more so in I've heard from a lot of Democrats on the ground is they miss when the Democratic Party had a big vision and not that Congress needs to necessarily go into big vision, but you know, Hakeem Jeffries has put together these working groups in the Congress last week, but Democrats want to see Congress have some sort of vision for bringing them better jobs, better wages, lower health care, and just a bigger piece of the American dream. And I know that sounds sort of wonky in some ways and some sort of esoteric in others, but it's both. And I think that's what we're going to see.
- [61:17]
Mark Halpern
Let's talk about something that's been an issue in the midterms, but I'm predicting could become an issue in 2028, which is some Democrats did I wouldn't say first but did it already. And now Republicans are doing it, which is messing in the other party's primaries, raising money and doing doing messaging ads, digital ads, to try to kind of trick the other party's voters into nominating someone who's perceived as less electable. The Democrats did it and Republicans cried foul and the media barely said a word about it. And now Republicans are doing it pretty substantially and they plan to do more all the way through the primaries. Is that something that should be outlawed? Could it be outlawed? How should voters feel about efforts by the Republicans to say we're going to build up a really liberal candidate who we don't think can win, or Democrats say we're going to build up an extremist? How should voters feel about that?
- [62:08]
Jaime Moore
Well, I mean, I think voters have got to be smart about that. And look, this is why, hey, Mark, we always talk about this. And I think what you've been able to do and others been able to do in this sort of new media space and bring, you know, information directly to people as quickly as possible, I think voters are going to have to just be a lot more smart about it. You know, Democrats and Republicans, consultants. Like, I, you know, I don't do this anymore. I work in, you know, mostly in corporate now when I worked in the party and I worked for campaigns. You know, that's sort of you got to do all you can to get your candidate or get your cause across the line. And so you're going to see more of that. And I don't think it necessarily should be illegal unless there's some, you know, sort of money, you know, money laundering or, you know, whatever. That, that's different. But I think as a pure tactic, I don't think there's an illegal thing, and it should not be illegal. But voters have got to be smart about it. Look, you. I'm talking to voters in Texas and other Democrats, and they, in some ways they feel like Democrats fell in this trap with Talarico and the Jasmine Crockett would have been a strong candidate after all. And so you're going to have that happen across the aisle, you know, for years and years to come. I don't think unless people will start to get really smart about it, I don't think there's going to be a lot for us to do around that.
- [63:19]
Mark Halpern
I'll tell you the one thing I'd like to do, and it applies to this, but it really applies to all of all of these kinds of efforts, which is the disclosure should be instant. Nobody should be able to spend a dollar on a campaign, a super pac, anything to influence the election without the disclosure being instant. Which of course in the digital age we should be able to do these, these month long lags between when someone gives the money, the money is spent and when voters get to know who, who gave the money. Doesn't make any sense. You just say you get a contribution, you disclose it electronically, it gets posted on a website, then you can spend the money. Am I wrong? Is there any reason why we can't do that?
- [63:57]
Jaime Moore
No, I don't, I don't, I, you're, this is what, I definitely agree with you on this and I spent a lot of time on Open Secrets and trying to figure out where it's going. But I think you're right. I think it, that's probably one of the, one of the goals we should have in the next five years is sort of figure out a way to bring more transparency to that. And I think that that will strengthen our democracy in ways that we don't even think about right now.
- [64:19]
Mark Halpern
Yeah. Let's talk about the president. Your party has spent a decade now predicting his demise, saying this is it, this time he's bought himself and he can't get out. And typically he'll have another act, he'll have a, a page turning revival. Is he going to have one this time or would you say this time it's for the, the predictions of his demise are actually correct?
- [64:43]
Jaime Moore
Yeah, I, I think, I think it's a little bit of all of the above. You know, look, the realities of time are just right ahead of him and he is going to become a more lame duck president if Hakeem Jeffries gets the gavel in November. That's just the reality of it. And then he'll have two more years left in his term and he's not gonna be president anymore. So he does have the reality of not being president anymore. But you can't count Donald Trump out ever. You know, he's going to spend the next six months, he's going to spend the next two and a half years doing exactly what he said he was going to do and trying to be as forceful as possible. Now here's what you and I have talked about this before and I, and I hesitate to text you this week as the Thune saga has happened. I told you a month ago or two ago that I thought was preparing for a post Donald Trump Senate. And I think we're seeing that. And so the Republican Senate is hardening some where they are realizing that they've got to maintain their majority. And so there's some pieces that are starting to crumble. But he is still the president. He still has a White House that is incredibly loyal to him, and he still has no reverence for congressional power, for the judicial system. And so I think he's going to do as much as he can. And so particularly if we keep forecasting his demise, he's going to keep figuring out ways to be creative and get out there. And look, we got Fourth of July coming up, and he's going to use that to stay on TV and stay out there, and he's going to keep going. So I don't count him out, but I do know that the clock is running out.
- [66:14]
Mark Halpern
Let's talk about Hakeem Jeffries. You mentioned the leader before. You're one of many people I know, I respect who has great respect for him. And he's, he's an extraordinary story politically. He's on the, he's on the cusp now, being the first black speaker. He rose up in New York politics and in Washington politics as a guy who had a talent for being more moderate in his choice of who to support in a lot of his policies, but having very good relationship with the progressive wing of the party, and that's obviously the role of a Democratic leader now, is to figure that out. At the same time, in the last year or so, his press clippings have gone downhill a little bit. There's been more skepticism, and some of that comes from members of the House caucus who, who don't like the way he's handled his politics, who don't feel he's fought Donald Trump hard enough, who sometimes feels he supported candidates in a way that has favored the moderate wing of the party. How would you appraise again on the, on the, on the doorstep of being the first black speaker and the first Democratic speaker since Nancy Pelosi, how would you appraise the political standing within the party of Hakeem Jeffries?
- [67:20]
Jaime Moore
Jeffries, hey, look, you hit the nail on the head. I have such great respect for Leader Jeffries and his entire team, and I think a lot of that. Obviously, Hakeem Jeffries speaks and stands on his own, but I think the direct mentorship of Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the continuation of summer, her team and the leadership office has been helpful from a continuity perspective. And so he's been able. We say this all the time, and I know people get sick of this, but the Democratic Party is a big tent party. And I know it's become Sort of a weird sort of bastardized colloquialism. But the realities are you have people who are so far left, even far, far left in the Democratic Socialist, and you have Blue Dog Democrats that turn back to reemerge again. And for Hakeem Jeffries to be able to keep that caucus together as tightly hit as he has been on the second year of Donald Trump's presidency is a feat in itself. And you don't see, and, you know, you have some members that are going out there doing their own things, they have their own parties. Like Nancy would say, you go run your own race, which is fine, but you don't see a lot of members from the Democratic Party and coalition right now going out there and doing their own thing without respect to the greater messages around affordability, around healthcare. And so he has been able to establish himself as the leader and he has trust, and a lot of that, too. Mark is. Catherine Clark is so strong. Pete Aguilar is so strong.
- [68:44]
Mark Halpern
Those are his. Those are his deputies in the House.
- [68:46]
Jaime Moore
Right, exactly. So some of the leaders shred is coming to, you know, from his commanders in, you know, in the, in the caucus leader and the whip. And so I give him a lot of respect for that. But here's what I've told, you know, his team, and what I'm concerned about is he's got to watch what's going to happen. You know, these primaries in the states have been very telling. And you see, and we talked about this in the last couple of weeks, the Democratic Socialist movement is growing, and they are putting together a set of candidates that are much stronger, much better funded, and they're winning elections. And so Hakeem Jeffries has got to be careful in how he receives the new members of his caucus, because, you know, we saw with Kevin McCarthy, you know, a big round of votes. Can, can, can, can, can completely flop. What. This could be a historic moment. And so he's doing well, but he's got to be mindful of what can happen in November, and he's got to keep his eye on the ball. And I think that's what he's doing.
- [69:42]
Mark Halpern
I'm pro genial as you are, and I like you because you're so genial, and we've had speakers who are very genial. But I can't help but think of Leader Jeffries in the context of Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi scared the crap out of some members of the caucus. If she was mad at you, if she, if she wanted to come at you, she she would do it in private, very sternly and sometimes in public. And I think about Nancy Pelosi single handedly, I believe, forcing Joe Biden to give up the nomination. I don't believe he would have given up the nomination and Democrats would have gone down to a massive defeat according to all the reporting I did, had he stayed on the ticket. When I look at Hakeem Jeffries and maybe you'll tell me behind the scenes it's different, but when I look at his public statements, when I look at his addressing intra caucus conflict, I see a genial guy. I see a guy who seems, who seems try to coax everybody through force of argument, please, to get along, to be unified. I remember when Barack Obama was going up against Hillary Clinton in the nomination fight in 2008 and people said, you're, you know, he's too nice, he's too genial, he's, he's not going to be able to take on the Clinton machine. And on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, I asked him about that and I said, some of the Clinton people say you're soft. And he said, I have this on my, on my handheld camera. It's a great piece of video. I should play it more. He said, I'm skinny, but I'm tough. And then he smiled, but it was not his usual smile, it was I'm from Chicago smile. So a long way of asking you, am I missing this? Is Hakeem Jeffries tough enough to enforce discipline within the party like Nancy Pelosi did, or is he just basing it on being a genial guy?
- [71:23]
Jaime Moore
No, I think you're missing it a little bit right now. Look, he is on the precipice of becoming the first black speaker. And so he's got to be very strategic and very specific in how he organizes himself as he leads up to that 1, 2. Look, Nancy Pelosi has been doing this for a very long time. I mean, she took the power of her father from Baltimore all the way over to San Francisco and bottled that it up to a perfect sort of example of political power. But Hakeem Jeffries hasn't had the opportunity to do that just yet. And so what he's been doing over the last two years is starting pulling together as much internal power and partnership and friendship as he can get the speaker vote as big a number, many Democrats, if not all Democrats as possible, and a couple Republicans if possible. Get that in November and then you'll start to see a different posture from Speaker Hakeem Jeffries. Look, he's from Brooklyn, New York. And I will venture to say that he's no wuss. And I've been in meetings with him. I've been backstage with him. I've seen him. He's a wonderful and lovely, very, very nice guy. But he's not someone to be effed around with when it really comes down to it. And so I think he'll start showing his teeth a little bit more. And he's been doing it, as you can notice, a little bit more each sort of primary, each time he gets a win and he's getting more strength, but it's going to take a while. It took a few years for him to get there. You don't just, you're just not born Nancy Pelosi. And also think about this. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the speaker emerita, is still a member of Congress right now. And so as speaker, as leader Hoyer leaves, as Speaker Pelosi leaves, you will start to see the power shift happening a little bit more dynamically. I think the leader will take opportunities with those shifts and those big sort of those big two members of Congress, Latoya and Speaker Pelosi, and he'll garner some of that power, too. So he's not done yet. He hasn't shown his, his full range. And I, and I wouldn't count him out.
- [73:22]
Mark Halpern
Yeah, brilliantly said. And I'll just, I'll just close by saying that the unfortunately uncomfortable truth, but it is a truth and it's something else we learned from Barack Obama. Even in this day and age, Even here in 2026, the notion of being an angry black man is something he's, he just, he just, he can't do it without risking implications of that because the symbolism of it, and I think that's partly what we're seeing is he's listening to Barack Obama, who was very well aware of. He just unfortunately totally unfair, has to play by different rules and or deal with the implications of it.
- [73:57]
Jaime Moore
Yeah, that's totally true.
- [73:59]
Cabot Phillips
Yeah.
- [74:00]
Mark Halpern
Hi, momore. Grateful to you. Love having you on and look forward to watching what happens in New York. We're talking on the day of the primaries. This leader, Jeffrey says a lot. It's stake. And we'll talk about that here and on two way when the results come in. Grateful to you.
- [74:14]
Jaime Moore
I'm good to see you.
- [74:15]
Mark Halpern
Great to see you. All right, that's it for today's program. We'll be back on Thursday with a brand new episode of Next up. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Describe subscribe to our podcast. We love having you be part of the community and we'd love for you to bullstar numbers and get all our content right when it drops so you always know what's coming next up.
- [74:37]
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Mark Halpern
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