Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: The Real Epstein Elite Narrative That Matters, Trump's Files Power Play, Plus Dems' 2028 Forecast
Date: November 18, 2025

Overview

This episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin dives deep into the Jeffrey Epstein disclosure crisis—a story that entwines elite power, political blame games, conspiracy theories, and real questions about justice and the societal divide. Mark opens with a reported monologue outlining the stakes of the coming Epstein documents release and the reactions rippling through Congress, the White House, and the public. He is joined first by former Congressman and author Steve Israel to discuss Israel’s new novel and reflect on Democratic Party dynamics and 2028 frontrunners. The panel then expands to include Ashley Etienne (former Pelosi and Harris advisor and current CEO) and Amber Duke (Daily Caller, The Hill's Rising) to parse the gulf between “elites” and “normal people” on Epstein, tactics in health care reform, and national moods heading into the holidays.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Epstein Files Disclosure: Stakes, Politics, and Trust

The Unique Nature of the Epstein Scandal

• Mark Halperin characterizes the Epstein saga as “an incredible story...nothing quite like this” given the intertwining of criminality, elite networks, and conspiracy theories.
• Congress is set to pass a bill forcing the release of DOJ-held Epstein documents, with the President (Trump) reversing his previous opposition and aligning (publicly) in support (05:25–06:30).

The “Conspiracy Trap” and Limits of Disclosure

• White House frustration is palpable: even complete disclosure, they believe, won’t satisfy “conspiracy theorists” or quell public distrust. Halperin quotes a White House official:

  "No, because people in the country genuinely believe that the federal government is in possession of a list of pedophiles who worked with Jeffrey Epstein. And that's just not true." (06:06–06:20)

• Trump’s shifting stance and the “discharge petition” led by Marjorie Taylor Greene put bipartisan pressure on Congress for maximum release of files, but skepticism remains about whether “the full truth” ever will be revealed, especially as DOJ can withhold files tied to active investigations (08:54–10:47).

What’s in the Files?

• Panelists speculate on content: financial records, emails, texts, investigation summaries, and surveillance data. DOJ has broad discretion for redactions; no clear deadline exists for release (10:07–10:47).

Trump’s Calculus: Defensive Blame, Media Management

• Trump is quoted as saying:

  "What I just don't want Epstein to do is detract from the great success of the Republican Party...so I'm for any...we'll give them everything...but don't talk about it too much because honestly, I don't want to take it away from us. It's really a Democrat problem...The whole thing is a hoax." (11:43–12:35)

• Halperin notes Trump’s long history (dating back to 2015) of “playing offense” on the Epstein-Clinton connection, suggesting he’s rarely shied from raising Epstein as a Democratic problem (13:52–14:24).

The “Elite Code”: Beyond Trump and Clinton

• The true narrative, Halperin argues, is larger than partisanship—it’s the pattern of powerful people across sectors giving each other “a pass,” as epitomized in journalist Sharon Waxman’s reflection:

  "The Epstein emails suggest...a widespread code among people with power and money who support one another, their pals, no matter what side of the aisle they're in...No matter how bad the things Jeffrey Epstein was accused of and did, rich, famous people in the media, in politics, in business, in academia, they all hung out with him." (16:30–18:30)

Three Enduring Mysteries

Halperin identifies “three figures around whom there is a fair amount of mystery:”

1. Trump: Timeline, knowledge, and claimed clean break from Epstein.
2. Ghislaine Maxwell: Why she’s in a cushier prison, whether she’ll get a pardon/commutation, and the lack of clarity from the government.
3. Epstein’s Death: Despite the official suicide ruling, Halperin (and others) remain skeptical due to gaps in oversight and unanswered procedural questions (21:02–26:35).

“Dead men tell no tales, but this man's been telling a lot. We've already seen a lot of his emails. We're about to see more.” (24:44)

Call for Clarity—For Victims and the Country

• Halperin’s closing plea:

  “What the country needs is to put this to rest...Let’s have the president give a full accounting. Let's find out how Epstein died, and let’s figure out what's happening to Maxwell. Let's do all that. Because if we don't...it'll spawn more conspiracies, more distrust in government.” (28:25–29:26)

2. Steve Israel on History, Bookstores, and Democratic Leadership

Writing as Therapy and Historical Reflection

• Steve Israel describes fiction writing as his “therapy” after 16 years in Congress, this time turning to a spy thriller based on Einstein and WWII espionage (31:59–32:36).
• His portrait of Einstein:

  “For most of his life he was a pacifist. And now he flees Nazi Germany and he sees the shadows of Nazism reaching America and he's challenged by his own pacifism...” (33:37–34:32)

On Leadership: Chuck Schumer and the Democratic Senate

• Israel unpacks the “multiple constituencies” Schumer must manage as Senate leader, defending his strategic balancing in a fractious political moment:

  “Being the Senate Democratic leader may be one of the worst jobs in America, but I do think he’s handling it very well...he’s keeping his people together...” (38:54–40:36)

The 2028 Democratic Nomination: Forecasts and Factors

• Israel positions Rahm Emanuel as a formidable potential candidate (“I’m working very closely with him”), arguing for Emanuel’s focus on “kitchen table issues” and his electoral skills (42:03–44:26).
• On skepticism about Rahm’s candidacy: “Some of the arguments I find offensive, frankly, which is, can a Jewish guy win? Can a Jewish guy with the name Israel, his middle name, win?” (44:36–44:47)
• Newsom seen as the current front-runner by virtue of “dominating the narrative in social media.” (46:18–48:01)
• Advice for new progressive mayor: “Focus on what's happening in the Midtown Tunnel and not the Middle East...” (49:48–50:36), highlighting the need to localize issues and blend street-level tactics with centrism.
• On the anti-Semitism debate and double standards:

  “If you were silent, whether you're Jewish or not on October 7th, but...shouted out about Israel in the aftermath, you have a double standard.” (50:43–51:35)

On Trump’s Cabinet; Mattis, Kelly, and “enablers”

• Israel laments the “cabinet of enablers” in Trump’s second term (“haven’t demonstrated a willingness to do what Kelly or Mattis...did in the first term, which is just to say no, you cannot do this.”). (52:22–53:40)

Cautious on AI

• Israel expresses deep concern about the trajectory of “super intelligence,” admitting he avoids using AI but stays informed via reading and boards (“You can't avoid being subjected to it.”). (53:43–55:04)

3. Panel: Epstein—Elite vs. Public Sentiment and the Politics of Disclosure

The Disconnect: Elite vs. Grassroots Concern

• Ashley Etienne: Perceives Epstein as “an issue that bubbled out of the MAGA base...not a big top priority for many Americans,” but notes Democrats weaponize it for partisan advantage (58:53–59:41).
• Amber Duke: Polls show strong opinions exist about full disclosure—it's not a top ranked issue, yet deeply felt when probed. “Republicans are worried...because of this promise from the Trump administration that this was going to be the most transparent administration in history... moments...that have felt like the opposite of transparent.” (60:07–61:34)

What Would an “Ideal President” Do?

• Etienne sketches a hypothetical presidential address focused on victims, anti–human trafficking policy, and bipartisan healing, in stark contrast to Trump’s approach:

  "What Donald Trump is doing...is the very opposite of that. I caution everyone...I'm not sure we'll ever get what people think that they want out of these files." (62:49–64:13)

Will DOJ Place the Truth Out of Reach?

• Etienne: Trump’s order for DOJ to “investigate Bill Clinton and other liberal icons” may be a play to keep certain documents out of public view due to “ongoing investigation” provisions in the bill (62:49–64:13).
• On alleged Trump involvement in released estate documents: “He had no control over those particular documents, but he does have control over what DOJ has...” (64:42)

Victims, Redactions, and Political Calculus

• Amber Duke observes victims support some redactions to protect privacy, but want core facts released. “A reason why this scandal was so shocking...is because it involved allegedly underage women. There's also women who were of age, who were trafficked as well. And I think those victims kind of get lost in the larger conversation.” (66:21–68:02)

On the Epstein Conspiracies and Maxwell's Prison Situation

• Amber gives a “maybe” to whether Epstein committed suicide, highlighting both psychological plausibility and “weird inconsistencies”:

  "I think the most likely explanation is that he was given the freedom to commit suicide, meaning there was either an order or just a lack of care from the people in the facility..." (68:49–69:55)

• Both panelists lament government stonewalling regarding Ghislaine Maxwell’s prison transfer.
  • Amber: “If there is a trade involved...the American public deserves access to what was traded from Ghislaine.” (70:45–71:22)
  • Ashley: “...it's disgusting and to quote Amber is just a miscarriage of justice on so many different fronts.” (71:50–73:16)

4. Health Care Reform: The Path to Bipartisanship?

The Reality of Incremental Reform

• Both parties realize major reforms are unlikely, but agree on the need for “smaller fixes” to the ACA.
• Ashley Etienne: Advocates for a “common boogeyman,” e.g., insurance companies, to unite left and right; warns Dems not to just defend ACA, but to seize the opportunity for collaboration (74:19–76:02).
• Amber Duke: “The Republicans key issue on health care has always been that they don't have a comprehensive plan on what they want to do with it...There's just not a clear vision from the party about what to do about it.” (76:15–78:29)

5. Free Speech, Responsibility, and Normalization of Extremism

Nick Fuentes and the Limits of Platforming

• Amber argues that deplatforming extremists “did not work,” and that the refusal of Republicans to participate in media “condemnation rituals” reflects asymmetrical scrutiny between parties (80:01–82:03).
• Ashley draws a hard distinction:

  “There's consequence to speech...it creates problems for the very fabric of our nation, who we say we are as a nation, all of these systems that run our country...” (82:27–84:57)

6. Optimism Amid Turmoil: Closing Notes

• Amber Duke: Despite broader challenges, sees “mass deportation” numbers as promising and in line with campaign promises (85:18–85:50).
• Ashley Etienne: Takes heart in signs of a presidential recalibration, positing perhaps “the president is really listening, feels like he could be listening to the American people because Tuesday was an all out rejection” (85:53–86:48).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “There have been political scandals...but nothing quite like this.” —Mark Halperin, (05:03)
• “No, because people in the country genuinely believe that the federal government is in possession of a list of pedophiles who worked with Jeffrey Epstein. And that's just not true.” —White House official (quoted by Halperin) (06:10)
• “I want to see every single name released so that these women don't have to live in fear and intimidation ... Will the Department of Justice release the files or will it all remain tied up?” —Marjorie Taylor Greene, (08:54)
• “The Epstein emails suggest...a widespread code among people with power and money who support one another, their pals, no matter what side of the aisle they're in.” —Sharon Waxman (quoted by Halperin) (16:30)
• “What the country needs is to put this to rest. We cannot go into another year and beyond where America doesn't know what happened, who did what, who needs to be held accountable...” —Mark Halperin, (28:22)
• “I needed a release. My release was writing. So I did two political satires while in Congress and then tried something different out of Congress.” —Steve Israel, (31:59)
• “I think the guy has a real record to speak to. Is he gonna satisfy everybody on the far left? No. But aren't we learning that in order to win elections, you can't be too far out on the left unless you're a Mondami?” —Steve Israel, (45:19)
• “I caution everyone around the Epstein files, because I'm not sure we'll ever get what people think that they want out of these files.” —Ashley Etienne, (62:49)
• “There's so much lack of trust in institutions and media for a long time...that I think it's easier for government officials to get away with this kind of thing because people don't trust who's asking the questions.” —Amber Duke, (71:28)
• “The problem I have is with speech that...engenders violence, and perpetuates a system that is set up to otherize people, to discriminate against people, to continue to foster a level of hate within our country.” —Ashley Etienne, (82:27)

Key Timestamps

• Main monologue (Epstein): 00:55–29:26
• Steve Israel interview (books, Dems, 2028): 31:19–55:42
• Epstein panel (Etienne, Duke): 58:13–73:16
• Healthcare discussion: 73:16–79:06
• Free speech/Nick Fuentes: 79:06–85:18
• Optimistic endings: 85:18–86:48

Tone & Style

• Candid and analytical—guests and host are forthright about partisan dynamics, personal motivations, and political strategy.
• Gravitas—Halperin emphasizes historical significance, foundational trust, and institutional responsibility, particularly regarding Epstein.
• Pragmatic and process-oriented—Frequent attention to practical dynamics of legislative cooperation and political calculation.
• Personal touches—Panelists reference direct experience (Israel’s bookstore, Etienne’s motherhood, Amber’s media grind), enhancing authenticity.

For listeners and readers seeking substance beyond tabloid details or partisan blame: This episode digs for the real story beneath the headlines—on Epstein, on elite complicity and secrecy, on 2028 political chess moves, on the search for bipartisan health reform, and on the meaning of public speech in a divided nation.