← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
The True Impact of Charlie Kirk's Legacy and Mission, with Gen Z College Leaders and Isabel Brown
01:20:44
On today’s special episode of Next Up with Mark Halperin, Mark has the conversation about Charlie Kirk’s assassination that no one else is having – with the people most directly shaped by his life and death yet largely overlooked in the national coverage: the college students whose futures he transformed. Mark sits down with Turning Point USA leaders from campuses across the country to reflect on Charlie Kirk’s life, his assassination, and the impact it has had on their own journeys. They offer candid and powerful accounts of what Charlie meant to them, the challenges they’ve faced on campus since his death, and how their experiences echo those of millions of peers nationwide. They also describe how his example shaped their approach to leadership – teaching them to argue with respect rather than anger and to fight for a moral revival – in stark contrast to the dominant media narrative that paints his supporters as hateful or vengeful. The Daily Wire’s Isabel Brown also join...
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- [00:34]
C
Welcome to NextUp, all you Nexters. It's Thursday. You know what that means. It's time for another episode of this program. I'm Mark Halperin, editor in chief of the live interactive video platform two way host of this program. Today's program is going to be a little bit different than usual. Normally I do a long monologue here, my reported monologue telling you my perspective and reporting on something in the news. But today it's going to be different. I continue to be struck by how little we're hearing the voice of Charlie Kirk on video. There's it's available, of course, you can watch it all on YouTube. But in news coverage and programs like this feel like we should hear for more from Charlie. But I also feel we should hear from more people who've been affected by Charlie's life. There's so many things going on around the country that are meant to commemorate and honor him, including the resumption of the college tour that was so important to him. Here's something from an event earlier this week in Utah at the state of course, where Charlie was assassinated at Turning Point USA event where the crowd made clear what and who was on their mind. So there's a lot of people energized by the aftermath of the assassination who want so much to honor him and to think about what for Turning Point usa, for the movement, what comes next. Before I tell you about our special guest today, I want to tell you about why they're here. They're here because of an email I got from an extra last week. This was from Jen in Colorado who wrote in and said that she'd had a realization. Jen wrote this is some of the first loss that many of Charlie's devotees have suffered. Knowing how it's still affecting me, Jen wrote a middle aged mom, I can only imagine how it is affecting the younger generation who felt like they knew him because they saw him every day on their social media feed. So that got us thinking. We haven't heard in any great Detail, maybe a short sound bite, but nothing beyond that from so many of the young people around the country who were inspired by Charlie Kirk, who were part of Turning Point USA on their campus, who wanted to start a chapter. So today, a very special conversation with three young people whose lives were changed by Charlie Kirk as he lived and are surely changed in the wake of his assassination. So when we come back, I'll introduce you to three of those people, three young people whose, whose testimony to how important Charlie Kirk was to them, I think will really inspire you and, and make it clear just how influential he was. And then after that, Isabel Brown will be here. She knew Charlie well and part of the Turning Point USA movement and a great host of her own program. So coming up, three young people. That's next up. And then Isabel Brown, all on this special episode of Next Up. Everybody. Let me tell you a story. Now. It's about a guy named Leo Grillo. He was on a road trip and he came across a dog that was severely underweight, a Doberman. Clearly in a lot of trouble. Leo rescued that Doberman and he gave him a name. He called him Delta. Sadly, though, Delta was just one of many animals that needed help, which gave Leo an inspiration. He started something called Delta Rescue. It's the world's largest no kill, care for life animal sanctuary. Over the years, they've rescued thousands of dogs, cats and horses from the wilderness. And they provide all their animals with what they need. Shelter, love, safety, and a good home. This dedication and everlasting love for animals, that's Leo's mission and it's his legacy. Delta Rescue relies solely on contributions from people like all of us to do their good work. If you want caring for these animals to be part of your legacy, speak with your estate planner. Because there are tax savings and also estate planning benefits as well. You can grow your estate while letting your love for animals live well into the future. Check out the estate planning tab on their website to learn more and to speak with an advisor. We call a dog man's best friend for a good reason. You can help those dogs and animals who need it most. Please right now visit deltarescue.org to learn more. Again, go today to deltarescue.org.
- [05:07]
D
All right.
- [05:07]
C
Next up, some of the many, many people around the country, especially young people that Charlie Kirk inspired in his life. Charlie spoke to so many people. As you know, he spoke to presidents and vice presidents and senior people in the Republican Party. But his focus was throughout his time at Turning Point, dealing with and inspiring young People, in a moment we're going to hear from three young people very much involved in Turning Point. But first I want to remind you about Charlie Kirk's capacity to speak to and inspire young people around the country.
- [05:43]
E
Started as a movement of one of two with no money, no connections and no idea what I was doing is now a movement on one third High school and college chapters across the country with 600,000 student activists, 300,000 grassroots donors. Symbols of victory. When I went to college campuses this last cycle, we ordered a couple hundred MAGA hats. All of a sudden all the kids wanted them. This MAGA hat that all of you guys own went from a symbol of those people are terrible Nazis to the coolest, most desirable thing that one can wear in American politics. Students, I want our Turning Point USA students to receive a round of applause. These are the freedom fighters of America. This is a bottom up resistance and it terrifies the ruling class.
- [06:51]
C
All right, so joining me now, next up is three young people who are part of Turning Point and very much focused on the meaning of the life and the death of Charlie Kirk. First with us is Sidonia Seko from Millersville University, active there in the Turning Point USA chapter vice president and co founder. Also with us, Theo Gray Bell, University of Kansas chapter president for Turning Point and Emma Arns, University of Tennessee chapter president. Welcome to all three of you. Thank you for being part of this.
- [07:24]
F
Thank you for having us.
- [07:26]
B
Thanks so much.
- [07:27]
C
I want to talk first about just what drew you to Turning Point and how you became aware of both Turning Point and Charlie Kirk. So donya start with you.
- [07:42]
F
Yeah. So my entire life I've been interested in politics and I've always followed Charlie and the Charlie Kirk show and among others, Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager. I was always very avid of Charlie and his message and I knew that I wanted to start some sort of young Republicans group or young conservative group here on campus because we're a very liberal school. So that was my mission coming in. And then I was sitting relaxing in my room before a volleyball game and Charlie was murdered. And it took a huge toll on me and my family as avid followers of his and just his entire mission. So it was very heartbreaking and it honestly lit a fire under me and it made me angry and it made me outraged and it made me want to make a difference. So I immediately went on their website and they experienced heavy traffic for a good week and a half because of so many people requesting to start chapters. But I was on there every day requesting to start a Chapter probably five or six times daily. And if finally they got back to me and I made it my mission to get it started. And finally the SGA approved us about a week ago.
- [08:53]
C
Okay, congratulations that we'll talk more about your future hopes for the chapter. Theo, how about you? How did you turning point in Charlie enter your life as a young person?
- [09:02]
D
Yeah, so I really just grew up in a small, conservative town. Everyone was kind of conservative, so I probably wasn't the most political person in the world. It was just everyone around me tended to agree with my point of view. And so I went off to college. I played football in college. I played up at West Virginia and had a knee injury that made my football career go south. So then I came back home to Kansas, and our school is very different than it was up in West Virginia. Kansas ranks number one in the nation for violence against free speech. 44% of our students believe that violence against free speech is acceptable, which is 5% above the next highest or 10% above the national average on that. So I realized real quickly once I got to the University of Kansas, that my beliefs were an issue with people. And I had encountered. My first real encounter with politics, actually, was Dr. Peterson was a huge fan of Dr. Peterson's, listened to a lot of what he did. Then it kind of spilled over into listening to some of Candace Owens was one of the first people. And then, you know, Charlie starts to show up, and Charlie's making big waves, and I got to know who he was. I was hearing him talk. I was an economics major. I remember him talking to a kid about, you know, reading soul, reading Hayek, reading Friedman, reading all these great economists. And so that was kind of my first major encounter with Charlie. Started to pick up and read some of those people's books and things like that. And then when I got to University of Kansas, I was just, like I said, having issues with professors and other students. My beliefs were an issue. So I was like, I need to get involved with something. And I watched the Charlie Kirk and Gavin Newsom podcast that they did together. And at the beginning of it, Charlie was like, if you want to get involved, join Turning Point usa. Told me where to go or whatever on the podcast. And so I went, signed up, got in touch with the field rep, and got involved. Was head over heels for it. Took over the chapter this semester, and we were trying to grow it. And then Charlie was assassinated. And since then, we have 10 times the members that we had before the assassination, and people are on fire for Charlie. And we just Want to keep the movement going and keep that fire burning within the youth in our nation.
- [11:13]
C
Emma, you've got a special relationship with Charlie Kirk because of where you grew up. Tell folks what that tie is and then tell us about when you met, when you got to meet him.
- [11:22]
B
Sure. Well, I like to say Turning Point USA actually found me via a QR code on my windshield in the same high school parking lot that Charlie Kirk had parked in in the suburbs of Chicago. So I definitely value that connection there. I started immediately a chapter at his high school. Once they had. Once I had figured out what Turning Point was about and who. Charlie Kirk. And they were not fans of him there. They were not fans of the Turning Point chapter I was starting, but I was determined to make that happen. And I was given endless opportunities throughout the community, throughout the city. I was able to speak in front of hundreds of people. And finally I was able to meet Charlie just several months after I had established that chapter at his high school. And that was a remarkable experience. I know he was so happy to hear that we had finally brought his movement to. To his old high school and back to his old community. I think that really touched him. But it was so honorable for me to be able to be that person. And I remember just feeling so like a light on that campus, on that high school campus, because we really lacked conservative leaders. And I think that Charlie saw that in me to bring back to where he had first had his roots.
- [12:40]
C
Yeah. I want you all to just briefly say, for people who don't know, and part of what we've tried to do here since he was killed is explain to people who didn't understand why he had so much appeal to people, particularly young people. Why was he special? What was significant special about him as a person and as an inspirational leader? Sydonia.
- [12:59]
F
I think something exceedingly special about Charlie was his capacity for patience.
- [13:05]
B
No.
- [13:06]
F
Never did he sit at one of those prove me wrong tables and yell at people or speak over them or get angry or cuss. He sat back and he took the blows, and he took the incompetence and the ridiculousness. And he came back with facts, and he came back with statistics. And his capacity to just sit there and listen was remarkable. And then if someone threw an insult at him or called him a Nazi or a racist or any other ridiculous name, he just said, okay. God bless you. Thank you. Have a great day. And that, to me, is special about Charlie.
- [13:37]
C
Theo, you also had a chance to meet him. Love to hear about that. And again, same question. I Asked what you think history should record was special about Charlie Kirk as a leader and as a person.
- [13:48]
D
Yeah, So I got to meet him, actually, this summer at the Chapter Leadership Summit down in Tampa, Florida. That was awesome. You know, I'd seen Charlie on all over TikTok, Instagram, all those different things, and that was my first chance to actually encounter him in person, have a chance to sit down, see that he's just a normal human, you know, like us. Great guy. That was very great to just be able to sit down and talk with him. But I think the big thing that, like, really inspired our generation is that all of us had thought this stuff. We all knew it to be true. Charlie came out and said it with such conviction and made it make so much sense that you couldn't sit there and look and go, we're going to let this happen any longer. Charlie was that voice for all of us who had thought all these things. And Charlie came out and he said, you know what? We're losing the young voters. They're going largely very far left. And people were afraid to stand up. The BLM movement was huge when I was in high school, and that was a thing like, well, if you're a conservative, you're a racist. And Charlie was one to stand up, and he challenged that narrative. He didn't care what people thought of him. And he was truly just that voice for all of us that said the things that we were all thinking, but did it in just such an educated manner that we could all get behind it and say, you know what? This is a guy we're behind. This is the voice for us. And he really was a major, major inspiration to our generation in standing up for what we believe in. And then he brought faith into it all. Like, faith was getting pushed out of conservative politics. Charlie wasn't afraid to go there. Charlie brought that back into the Conservative Party at an amazing time. There's been a huge swing back in young kids to the church that Charlie's largely responsible for, and it's made the Conservative Party better. It hasn't made us more permissive, but it has made us more accepting of people. And in this way that everyone is starting to see the conservative movement as a place of unity, not as a place of hostility, which the left has become. And Charlie is largely responsible for that.
- [15:56]
C
Emma, 20 years or so from now, when Charlie's kids are about your age and they asked you, why was our dad so inspirational to you? What would you say?
- [16:06]
B
Yeah, well, I. I really like how Theo had put it. Charlie Kirk was just a normal guy. He was just one of us. And I think that's something very particular about him that made him stand out, especially to a young generation of people like ourselves who, you know, can look at politicians or can look at other political pundits and say, well, I don't have really that much in relation to them. And I personally think with my upbringing at the same high school as Charlie, that gave me that insight even deeper. And I think that that difference between Charlie and his ability to so clearly articulate and his extensive knowledge really helped him be that person in our. In the conservative movement. And I know that Charlie had this grand idea of using, for example, as one of the. One of his sources to reaching the young demographic, which, of course, young people are constantly on social media. And I think that was the best tool that he had utilized because of course, there is bad to social media, but what the devil intends, or what the devil intends for evil, God will use for good. And I think that's. This is an example of that happening. So I would tell his daughter, his daughter and his son that that's, you know, he was a unique, remarkable individual. And I think he was able to meet people where they were and connect with them on that more personal level than other people we see in the political sphere.
- [17:28]
C
You all have different experiences on your campuses, but the through line is something that the dominant media doesn't cover with any depth, which is the ostracization of conservatives on most campuses and the degree to which you had to hide your views and still to some extent do. So I'd love for you guys to discuss examples of what it's like to be a conservative on most college campuses and how Charlie Kirk and Turning Point made living your lives different possible 1,000%.
- [18:02]
F
So. Oh, sorry. You go ahead, Theo.
- [18:04]
D
Okay, well, my big. When I was at West Virginia, that's where I started at West Virginia stayed largely apolitical. It wasn't too bad there. I came back to the University of Kansas, which everyone thinks of Kansas as a conservative state. The University of Kansas, it's very far from that. So I get back to school and, you know, all the classes are pushed around this just Marxist rhetoric about critical theory, all that type of stuff that is not factual. It is based on solely on feeling and not how the world actually works. And they push this to all the students. And if you're the one that stands up to that and says, hey, this isn't right. This is not how the world works. This is not what we should be pushing to people that gets you labeled really quickly as the person that is just hateful towards other groups and you don't want the best for other groups. And it's far from that. And that quick quickly became apparent through two required history classes that I had at the university. Quickly quickly became apparent that, you know, my belief.
- [19:15]
C
Does that come. Does that come from other students, from faculty? Where does it come from? Is it explicit or just a feeling?
- [19:21]
D
It's both. So it's explicit from the faculty. One direct statement that was made in one of my classes was that we were discussing the Israel, Palestine conflict in the class. And of course, the teacher siding with Palestine and has to come back and make his statement on why he's not an anti Semite because of that. So he decides that it makes sense to point out that, oh, well, who's actually anti Semites? It's the Christians. And then he goes on to say that the Bible advocates for another holocaust of the Jews, which is nowhere in the Bible. We all know that. And so these kids go along with it. And the kids, they have no critical thinking. They come back and they're like a parrot of what this professor tells them, because they went and studied this in school, and they studied it at the same school doing the same brainwashing. And so it's just a continuation of that. And you know, these students. I challenged the narrative of a teacher about Guantanamo Bay. We were discussing that, and I challenged a narrative that didn't make sense. And they were like, well, you're just justifying the torturing of humans. And I was like, no, I'm not trying to justify torturing people by any means. But then it kept going on. And one student's like, well, anyone that thinks that should be lined up and shot?
- [20:39]
C
Yeah.
- [20:40]
D
And it's.
- [20:41]
C
Sorry, Emma.
- [20:42]
D
You see what happens.
- [20:43]
C
You felt, as you said before, the, the. The criticism and the pressure at high school where rather than being proud of their most famous graduate, I suspect he's the most famous. Maybe not people. People were critical. What are things you've experienced where the pressure to conform has been negative towards you?
- [21:08]
B
Yeah, well, I'll say high school wasn't kind. And that's part of the reason I left Chicago. And now I'm in the beautiful state of Tennessee where we do tend to have more conservative leaning. So students as part of our campus. But I think a lot of people at the University of Tennessee are generally apathetic towards politics. However, I do believe there is a shift happening now, of course, with the death of Charlie, a lot of people have been ready to step up and stand out and say, well, I am conservative, I've been conservative and now it's time for me to get involved and really make that part of my life and part of my mission. But referring back to high school, I was absolutely slandered by both high school teachers and students, of course. And I really, I looked to Charlie as an example. I said, okay, well, he definitely experienced this and he still does experience this. And if he's capable of overcoming that negativity and that slander, I think I could absolutely as well.
- [22:07]
C
What kind of, what kind of things were said to you?
- [22:10]
B
Social media accounts with my face on it were made. Hate accounts. You were call them. I was approached in, in person by students who had the, the guts to do that. But a lot of the, a lot of the comments were online on my social media where I had become public about my views and what I was doing. And in reality, that's just cyber bullying, I guess you could call it, but it doesn't, it doesn't have any weight.
- [22:34]
C
What kind of, what kind of things did they say about you?
- [22:37]
B
I think there were some, there were some death threats, there were just some negative comments about, you know, you're going to hell and all of these, you know, other negative things. But I thankfully haven't gotten a lot of that in a long time. I think my, my following on social media has been pretty understanding of where I align with my politics. So, yeah, on campus here at ut, we do sometimes get the occasional person to our table who goes out of their way to make a nasty comment or two. And we actually held a vigil just a couple weeks ago outside where there were some, some individuals who wanted to cause some noise and they do, but it doesn't affect us like they think it does.
- [23:22]
C
How does the existence of Turning Point and the ability to be surrounded by like minded people, how does that help you stand up to be able to express your views proudly on campus? All of you? Just anybody jump in?
- [23:34]
F
Yeah. So the existence of Turning Point essentially gives us, I would say it gives us strength, it gives us base point to jump off of. If we're just a young conservatives group, all we really have is our word against theirs. But when we have such a strong national organization with thousands of chapters being started and requested, you see that there's kind of support there for a reason. And when you have a voice like Charlie speaking out and being so confident and taking that level of hate and death threats for him and his family, his daughter and his Wife receiving death threats daily. The strength that that takes is so powerful in itself that it thus gives these thousands of college students and high school students the strength to be able to stand up for what they believe in as well. If they see Charlie taking all of that, then they're thinking, oh, I can do this. I got this. And to attest to what Emma was saying as well, I've been getting the exact same kind of hate on my campus here as well. I just started this chapter, and I've already been receiving the most Hein. Meanest comments I've ever received in my life via the comment section of our Instagram page. I'm just gonna read you. Read you one of them. This is basically the kkk. What's up with the Millersville Nazi Club? Kill yourself. So that kind of thing is for. For one, not tolerable in America. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. And two, it is not very, very a good showing of the tolerant left. And I welcome these type of comments because they just affirm everything we're fighting for, and they're proving our point.
- [25:16]
C
So, yeah, I want to go through and talk about how you've experienced the time since Charlie was assassinated. Emma, start with you. Just tell us about the day itself, how you learned what had happened, how you followed the news developments from the time it was learned he was shot till the time it was made clear he had passed away. How did you experience that day from a. From a news point of view, but also from an emotional point of view?
- [25:40]
B
Yes. So I was actually at home, and I was preparing for our Turning Point meeting. We were having a 911 memorial just a couple hours later, and I had gotten a message on my phone, and I wasn't sure exactly what it meant at first. Charlie Kirk got shot. And I said, okay, well, let's see. So I went online and I googled Charlie Kirk shot. Nothing came up. So I assume I was one of the first people to hear about it before the media had gotten their hands on that news. So went into my living room and grabbed my roommate, and we started doing our research through X or Twitter, and it just kind of unfolded. It seemed like the longest. Maybe it was three hours, I think between the time that we had found out and the time that we had realized that he had passed. It felt like 10 hours, but it was very emotional. I was really glad to be with somebody at home because, you know, I have been a avid follower of Charlie and Turning Point for four and a half years now. I've met Charlie I've had conversations with Charlie, and all of my friends in my community are associated closely with Charlie or with Turning Point. And I know it really hit close to home for a lot of them, and therefore, it hit close to home for me. So it was horrible. It was something that I didn't believe at first. I think we're all still pretty much processing what happened, and it was. It was so heavy on all of our hearts. We had to cancel our meeting, of course, but just, you know, we stated a message and saying, take care of yourselves, because this is going to be a hard time for all of us to overcome.
- [27:13]
C
Theo, how did you experience that horrible day?
- [27:16]
D
Yeah, so I was sitting in this chair right here. I work from home. I was on work. One of my buddies goes, oh, my goodness, Charlie was just shot. And my initial thought was, like, the Trump incident, like, you can't kill Trump. You can't kill Charlie. You know, like, they're. Those are our icons. Like, those are people that have been iconic in this pro American movement right now and keeping our country as America, being proud to be American. And so that's what I'm thinking. And I get sent the video, and I'm watching it. I'm faced over this way, and I'm heads down watching the video, and I just see him get shot and just instantly knew and just dropped my phone, and I was like, oh, my goodness. And it was. It was surreal. It still, you know, doesn't really sit in. We still see videos of them all over Instagram and stuff. And so part of it doesn't feel real, but it was just such an iconic figure that you look to as leading this revolution, leading this pro America push that was inspiring a generation. And they kind of just become this immortal figure in your head. And seeing that something like that would happen could happen to someone like Charlie, and then just the fact of such a great human being that people would go out and target him because they have political differences. And it was. It was a surreal feeling of wow. Like, all the hate we had seen coming from the media on the left, like, this hit all. You know, this was the tipping point of what this actually leads to. And just seeing that happen to someone like Charlie was, like I said, just surreal, Very hard to comprehend. And it kind of flipped our world upside down. It's been great to see the people that have gotten inspired by Charlie, but at the same time, you know, Charlie was the one leading this movement. And it's. When you lose a leader like that, it was extremely hard and felt like I had really lost a friend. Not just someone I looked to, but really felt like someone close to me I had just lost. And that was hard.
- [29:23]
C
So, Donna, you talked before about the moment when you found out. As you've thought about it, I'm sure you have, between when it happened and today, what kinds of things do you think about when you think about the assassination of Charlie Kirk?
- [29:37]
F
I think about cowardice, and I think about evil. I want to be very clear that this country no longer has an issue between right and left. It has an issue between good and evil. And I think the person that did this to Charlie was evil. And there's no question about it. The minute I heard my boyfriend, he's actually a Marine in the United States Marines, the minute I heard him say that Charlie Kirk was shot, I got very emotional and I thought. I just thought of Jesus. I thought, jesus, please save this country. Please save Erica, Please save his little girls. I was absolutely appalled. And going forward from that moment, I have actually become a lot closer in my relationship with Jesus, because you never know when it's going to be a loved one of yours. He thought he was going to walk off that campus with Erica that day, and he didn't. So you never hug your loved ones tight is what I've been thinking, actually, a lot. You never know what is going to happen to you. And again, like I said, this country no longer has a partisan problem. It has a humanitarian problem.
- [30:48]
C
If you were talking to somebody listening to the show, a young person your age and twenties, college age, who would say to you didn't really know what Charlie Kirk's life was about and said, what's the big deal? I don't get why you guys are so upset. Talk about just all of you, just weigh in. How would you explain to someone your age who said, what's the big deal about his being assassinated? What would you say?
- [31:11]
D
I think that really quick. Oh, sorry, you're good.
- [31:15]
F
I was just going to jump off the faith aspect. I was just talking about. There was a video resurfacing of Charlie. Someone in an interview asked him, if you were to die tomorrow, what would you want to be remembered for? And immediately his response was, I want to be remembered for my faith in Jesus Christ. And I think that is such a powerful message. And I think, like, what's the big deal about Charlie? This man was a soldier of God. He defended the gospel and the word of God with such strength and such firmness that I think his life and all lives, all lives mean something. We're all created in the image of God. But Charlie's life was especially put out in Jesus's plan for this country because he knew this man was going to be one of his soldiers. And the day that he was murdered, he returned to his king.
- [32:12]
C
Theo, what would you say to someone who said, what's the big deal? Just one guy?
- [32:16]
D
Yeah, I think again, to piggyback off the faith thing. Like I said earlier, in the beginning, faith had been pushed on the down low. The schools preached this whole First Amendment, separation of church and state, all this stuff. And Charlie went in and challenged that narrative and really brought faith back to the center of this country. That's what our country was built on. Regardless of what anyone says, our country was built and founded on the Christian faith. And we understood that our Constitution was fit for a moral society, but that an immoral society was going to struggle with this Constitution. And that's what we've largely seen as an immoral society that struggles to love America in our Constitution. And Charlie really stood up for his faith and challenged that, but he did it for his country as well. So he brought those two things together. They're not separate. Charlie was able to stand for his faith and know that Jesus Christ was the best thing that he could give to this country. And seeing someone like that, who was such a pioneer in bringing that back for a lot of us young Christian youth to really see that and be like, wow, like, my faith has a place in this nation and my faith needs to be put on display like that. And seeing someone that inspired you to be bold in your faith and put it on display be killed because of his faith, it lets you know how real this was. And I think it was a wake up moment for us all in the fact of, like, this isn't just a game. Like, I think most of us Americans realize you have to be willing to die for this at this point. And I think most of us young people are. We're willing to go there. I think is awful as it was. I think it actually made people braver and bolder, and we don't care 1000%.
- [34:05]
F
I agree, Theo.
- [34:07]
B
I would say just to bounce off of that, that's. That might be the silver lining to all that's happened. And it's been horrific and it's been unfortunate. And everything that we witnessed on social media watching the assassination of Charlie, our souls are not meant. They're not built to witness that kind of evil. And so like. Like Sidonia had said earlier, this is a war between good and evil. That we're facing now in this country and Charlie is a martyr now. But Charlie was so important as when he was living. And of course now that he is gone, he's so important because he was able to reach a demographic of people with a message that we've kind of lost sight of as a society. And not necessarily just politics, but also our value and our moral structure. You know, people say Gen Z has gone, so is so far gone, we've hit rock bottom. And I think a lot of Gen Z has actually realized that with themselves and they've turned to idols like Charlie Kirk and other conservative or Christian influencers and said maybe, you know, maybe there is light in this darkness. And I think that's exactly what Charlie was able to provide for a lot of people.
- [35:11]
D
He very much was that just light and gave people, especially young men. Like, if you think of what it means to be a man of faith, Charlie like is the guy to look to let his family, let his wife, took care of his kids, provided. Like seeing someone like that, that a man that is trying to just be a great man can be so looked down upon because of his values for that made him such a great man. And promoting the nuclear family, like, since when have things like that been a problem? And seeing that that's become such a problem.
- [35:49]
F
It's, it's very interesting and jumping off of that. If you, if you follow everything that's been going on on Tick Tock. I've never seen such, such a surge of churchgoers ever. It's truly a revival. Charlie has caused a revival of the word of Jesus Christ. And the amount of young man, young men who are getting their life together, going to church, taking care or being more present in their children's lives and with their wife, it's absolutely inspiring. And it's all because of the way Charlie treated Erica and the way he defended the word of God.
- [36:22]
D
I think a great testament to that was RFK speech talking about was that his granddaughter, I believe and how she takes her Bible to college. And it's like, I want to live like Charlie. Like that's, that's what we saw in Charlie was this person that like, this is what we should strive to live like and like to truly stand up for our faith. Like the Christian faith is not just some cute little thing. You go to church on Sunday, sing your songs. Like, we have to be willing to defend our faith. The Bible tells us the world hates you. Keep in mind it hated me first. Like we. And for some reason that's been lost by a lot of people. I think Vodi Bauckham, who recently passed as well, he wasn't afraid to go there either. And I think Charlie and I love Vodi as well. So those two guys were truly people that actually took that firm stand in their faith and showed us, you know, this isn't something you just go pray on Sunday and go on about your week and stay quiet. It is a lifestyle, and it is for the betterment of society and the world, and that the world needs Jesus. The world needs change, and we have to go out there and be the change.
- [37:30]
F
So that's. That's the big deal. If people. If people ask the question, what's the big deal about this guy? He was a soldier of God. That's the big deal.
- [37:36]
D
100%. 100%.
- [37:39]
C
And how do you all feel that's compatible with what he did with the president, with maga, with politics? How are those. How do you see those fitting together?
- [37:48]
D
Well, I think Trump has outwardly started to speak about, you know, that Christians are under attack in the world. Like, they don't want to talk about what's going on with Christians over in Africa right now. They want to talk about all these other people, and they won't defend Christian people. And Trump, I mean, you can disagree with some of his things that may not have been the most Christian in the past or may not say the most Christian things all the time, but as far as what he has done to defend Christians, Trump has been willing to do that. Vance standing up and talking about, you know, he's been more willing to talk about his faith since Charlie. He said, in these last two weeks, I've talked more about my faith than I have in my entire life. And that shows not only the impact that Charlie had on us young people, but Charlie was making an impact on the president and the vice president of our nation and all of our other leaders. His. His impact wasn't just the young people. He inspired people that were in these huge roles. And, you know, I think they really have made that push back to, you know, morality in that 1000%. You can't have a society function without some set of morality. And we're seeing such a struggle with that right now. That's. That's where a lot of this tension really comes from, is a people that are trying to be moral people. What we were intended to be as a country founded on these Christian principles in a society that wants to say, well, no, we are supposed to be a secular society, and we should be able to live lawlessly and immorally. And that is not what we are founded on. It's not.
- [39:27]
F
I agree with you there, Theo. I was just going to say.
- [39:31]
C
Yeah, go ahead. You go. Go ahead.
- [39:33]
F
I'm so sorry. I was going to say, I agree with Theo there.
- [39:37]
C
As new people have come to ask to join your chapters, what kinds of things are they saying? What reasons are they giving for coming forward now and saying they want to be part of your Turning Point organization?
- [39:48]
B
Well, I'll say that our chapter has grown maybe tenfold since Charlie's death. And a lot of these people are stepping forward and they're saying, I've always been a conservative. I have these conservative values, but I'm a Christian. I really want to dive deeper into my faith and I want to put that in the scene with politics at the same time. And I think that's really inspirational to see so many people stepping forward and having that courage to do so. Because like we talk about, there are. There are boundaries and there are hurdles, I should say, you know, with being on a campus and trying to fit in and trying not to upset the people around you, and then still being a Christian and standing out and standing up for your faith and your. And your values. So that's what we've seen here at the University of Tennessee, specifically.
- [40:33]
F
Yeah. And here at Millersville, I would say Theo and Emma are my superiors in this situation. I'm the baby of the group. I'm a freshman here. I just started a brand new chapter. Millersville was not ready for this. They've never seen any conservative action taken on this campus. And many of the students here mock the death of Charlie Kirk. They mock him and his life. It's disgusting. But the people that do support his mission and would consider themselves more conservative in their ways of life, they've been very supportive to the starting of this new chapter. We have about 100 members who want to join. We have about a 7,000 student body. So with 100, we have close to 200 followers on our Instagram. And we just made it. And so 100 plus people of interest is pretty good for just starting. About two weeks ago.
- [41:22]
C
If folks at Turning Point, Erica Kirk and the other leaders there asked you, where should our focus be? They do so much stuff. Charlie had so much going on. How would you define what you'd like to see the mission of Turning Point be, particularly for college students who want to have active chapters?
- [41:40]
D
I think the clinging to our faith, like Charlie, he said that's what he wanted to be remembered for, and that is what he is being remembered for more than anything is his faith. And that's, again, like with my chapter, that's what I've seen in my chapter is a lot of these people from the church that, you know, they were told, keep your faith and politics separate. And they're like, you know what? This is enough. Like, these politics of our nation have infringed on people's faith at this point, and they're sick of it. And they're standing up for their faith and what they believe in. And they're not going to sit back and be quiet while a nation convinces them, oh, well, you just need to leave it out of politics while they trample all over your faith. And we've seen a lot of people come because they've decided, you know what, this is. My faith is very intertwined with politics. And they're not afraid to now stand up for their faith in a political manner. We've seen a lot of it, unfortunately, from pastors that have said, oh, well, we don't do politics. We just preach the gospel. And it's like the gospel is very intertwined in modern politics. They won't stand up for the unborn. They won't stand up to this idea of, you know, you're not created perfectly, that you were born in the wrong body. They won't stand up to these sick ideas. And, you know, kids are finally coming out and saying, you know what? We're done with that. And I think we're looking for pastors that are willing to do that. My pastor has done a great job at that and is not afraid to stand up to the immorality of society just because they tell him to leave his face separate from politics. And that's something I've taken a great liking to my pastor personally because of. Because he will stand up for the unborn. He will call out this crazy idea with all this gender ideology, and that's what we're looking for. And I think Turning Point was one of the main places that started to intertwine those two. And that's what kids are looking for 1,000%.
- [43:38]
F
And I think Turning Point's main focus right now. I agree, should be with you, Theo, intertwining the aspect of faith with politics, because we're not trying to shove Christianity down anyone's throat. But again, it's so intertwined with our Constitution and the foundations of our country. I mean, look at any coin. You'll see God on the coin. Look at. Look at the Constitution in life, liberty and happiness, endowed by our Creator Jesus. So I think a big focus of turning point right now should be increasing national patriotism and national pride in the Amer, in the American values that our country was founded on, which is Christianity, and no one has to be Christian. But just increasing that patriotism could save the country from the situation it's in right now. If you look at Dearborn, Michigan, I urge you to go search up what's happening in Dearborn, Michigan right now. It's terrifying and it's unacceptable. And I think the Constitution allows for freedom and practice of religion under the First Amendment free exercise clause. However, that does not mean that the Christians that practice Christianity, the faith that this country was founded on, should have to endure a complete takeover of another religion from the other side of the world.
- [45:02]
D
Well, if we don't establish our faith in some way, we have no morality to stand on as a society. A society cannot stand without any basis of morality. And that's what we've seen. You wipe faith completely out of it, and we say we're going to be completely secular. That's what the left wants. There's no basis of morality. You know, we have all these people that are pushing moral relativity, and that's going to be the downfall of our society. There is a moral absolute, and we must stand up for that moral absolute, regardless of the hate it brings us. Because people don't want to be told what's right and wrong. They just want to be, you know, in their own little bubble. And I can do whatever I want, but we do need to stand up for what is moral and what is good. And without that, our society will crumble.
- [45:46]
C
I think a lot about. It's only been a little over three weeks since Charlie was assassinated. I think a lot about what he would think about what's happened, about the memorial service in Scottsdale, about the starting of so many new chapters. Emma, if Charlie were back and hadn't seen the last three weeks and said to you, Emma, tell me the story of what's happened since my assassination. Tell us that story. And the other two you chime in to fill in the story. What's happened in the last three weeks that Charlie, you think would be interested in?
- [46:18]
B
Well, I think I'd tell him that his vision has been fulfilled. I was lucky enough to be able to attend the memorial service in Glendale, Arizona just a couple weeks ago, and they had showed up on the screen that Charlie had made a comment in a group chat about his vision for what he would want Turning Point to look like one day, and it was an arena. It was a stadium filled with people. And that's exactly what happened on that Sunday for Charlie. And that was an amazing experience. There was so much love. And we really all felt Jesus in the room with us, the Holy Spirit in the room with us at that, at that moment. But I think he would be so proud, you know, to see that so many people have turned and come to the Lord just from after his death. You know, we all witnessed that awful, awful assassination. And there's really only one thing you can do when you see something so graphic, and that's just pray. And I think a lot of people who hadn't ever prayed, or maybe not prayed in years came to the Lord and said, save us. You know, this is, this is horrendous. And I think that would make him happier than anything in the world. I think also the strength Erika, his wife, has through the Lord would make him proud. And I think he would be happy to see everything, how it's unfolded since.
- [47:30]
F
His passing, 1,000%, I think. I'm not even going to say anything further. You just summed it up. He would give all glory to God and he would be so happy that Erica forgave the man who took his life.
- [47:44]
C
If you think about the future of turning point of the conservative movement of maga, who do you see now as leaders? In the absence of Charlie Kirk, who do you see as leaders? Whether they're politicians or hosts of shows or activists, who would you name as someone who can help besides Erica Kirk, who can help carry on the mantle?
- [48:07]
F
I see Candace Owens, I see Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway, JD Vance, Usha Vance, the Trump family. They're all going to be key players in the coming years.
- [48:22]
C
Good list. Who else would you all add to that? Go ahead.
- [48:26]
B
I think that's an easy question. I think it's me. I think it's you. I think it's everyone here. I think it's everyone within the conservative movement. All these people Charlie had educated while he was here, all these people that Charlie had inspired are now standing up and saying, well, we have to carry the torch onward. And I think that there are tens of thousands of people that are ready to do that with the strength from, you know, from, from the Lord and where I know personally at my school, I have taken an even greater responsibility in my leadership with my chapter now having, you know, over 200 regular members, that is a responsibility. But I, I'm honored to be in that position. And it's really, it's really going to show that we have the power. You know, we might not have the platform that Charlie had, we may not have the microphone, but even if we're able to reach one person with our message and with, with our, with our faith, that's what really matters.
- [49:19]
D
I think that's very well said. Yeah, like Charlie talked about the fact that this was a bottom up revolution, this was not top down. And that's, that's what's so cool about what Charlie did. You know, there are these speakers, we're wondering kind of who's going to take the place, who's going to be the big names at the events. But at the end of the day, this truly has been a bottom up revolution. And it is just the people being willing to stand up and fight for what they believe in. Fight for, you know, morality, for conservative values, for our Constitution, for our faith. And it's awesome to see that it really has become that thing where, you know, Charlie has inspired enough people that the people are going to be the ones to really carry this thing on, regardless of who's speaking. I think that's not the most important part at this point. I do think that it really is the people he's inspired and the people that want to be involved and they're going to do it and they're going to carry the torch, going to go around.
- [50:21]
C
Ask you all, if you were to compare Charlie Kirk as a person and his historical importance to one other person in human history, who would you compare him to? I'll give you a moment to think about it. One person in terms of what he was like and the impact you think will have on history. Emma, start with you.
- [50:40]
B
I think the first person a lot of us thought of is mlk, just with, you know, the similarities in their voices and being, you know, generally normal people in the, in the community and within their movement of being able to lead so many people. I think, I mean, there are clear differences, but I think that was the first person that I had sort of associated him with. You know, he's a martyr now, just as MLK is.
- [51:03]
F
I'm gonna say. I'm sorry, I'm gonna say John F. Kennedy. I think Kennedy was the people's president. He was a family man. He was a man of God, similar to MLK and Charlie. No matter what values a historical figure has, what defines them is the support that they gain from their constituents or their constituency and the influence that they have. And he was one of America's most influential men, probably one of the most influential men in the world. Some great accomplishments in the Kennedy administration. And again, his life, just like Charlie and mlk, was taken from him in a cowardly and evil manner. So I would compare Charlie to John F. Kennedy.
- [51:46]
C
Okay, great. Two great names, Theo. Do you have a third one? Dad?
- [51:49]
D
They took some great names, but I think. Sorry, I think I'll go a different route because, you know, the political side for sure, but I think the next best is Billy Graham. I think as far as the revival that Charlie has led in this nation, like that is his legacy now, is a revival. And I don't think he would have wanted it any other way. Charlie has truly led a revival in this country and a country that is seeking to honor God and to do what is right and to stand up for our values and to stand up for this nation, because this nation has honored God. And I think that revival that he has sparked is similar to Billy Graham, and that's who I would have to go with.
- [52:33]
C
One last question. I'm so impressed by how articulate and thoughtful you all are, but also by how strong you are. You've brought to this conversation so much optimism and forward thinking and hope for the future on your campuses, for the country, for the movement that you're part of. Where does that come from? Why aren't you bitter? Why aren't you angry?
- [52:56]
F
I think I can attest to, for all of us as Christians, I think it's obviously not easy to do, but just as Erica forgave that man, we have to as well. I think God has put it in our hearts as Americans to mourn Charlie, but we gotta quickly pick up that microphone and make the moves that he was on his way to make. We gotta carry the torch that he lit. I think the anger and the. The sadness is inevitable. But again, anger and sadness come from the devil. So Jesus would want Charlie and Jesus would want us to prevail.
- [53:35]
D
I think for me, I mean, Jesus was beaten and nailed to a cross for us. And I think the least we could do to repay that back to honoring God, standing up for our beliefs, it's just to speak our mind, you know, don't be silent. Like we're never going to go through anything like he had to go through for us. And he paid the ultimate price for all of us. And I think that's where one, the worst thing Charlie said it, the worst thing that can happen to a Christian is that he's delivered home to Christ. And so I think we have a lot of confidence in our God and that we know that regardless of what happens to us, we can only be better off. And that, you know, Jesus paid the ultimate price. And the least we can do is stand up for God, stand up for morality, stand up for our beliefs, and stand up for this country. Let's fight to make this country, you know, a great country again, and a country that truly does aspire to honor God and to be a moral society that is a leader of the world and is a beacon of light for the whole world, which is what we have been. And none of us want to see that go. And we're going to stand up and fight for that.
- [54:47]
C
Emma, Emma, where does your strength come to?
- [54:51]
B
Yeah, they put it perfectly. I also think that, you know, we. We are the side that are receiving the death threats. We're the side that's being attacked physically and both, you know, verbally. That proves to me that we're on the right side and we're doing the right thing. And even, you know, back since high school, when I faced all of that opposition and all of that stuff, slander, I think that I realized I had a better head on my shoulders than the rest of the people that were attacking me because I was willing to have those conversations. I wanted to have those conversations with people who wanted to hide behind a screen. And so that was really what kept me going throughout the past four and a half years. Also having a community of people. After attending over 10 Turning Point conferences and meeting people from all across the nation, I think that also showed me that I was not alone in this movement. I wasn't the only person, person that was receiving backlash and hate. And that really inspired me to keep going and driving forward.
- [55:42]
D
I think the thing about.
- [55:44]
C
Go ahead.
- [55:44]
D
Knowing which side, you know, which side we truly stand on. Like, you, you talk about politics and you're ostracized a little bit. You bring God into politics and people really get mad. And I think if you want to know where you stand and if you're standing with God, which side looks different from the world? And the more you lean into conservatism in your faith, the more ostracized you are from the world. There's these people that want to be these leftist Christians. It's like, well, you blend in with the world. The world, you know, welcomes your Jesus. That's not the Jesus that we know. Our Jesus was killed for what he believed in.
- [56:23]
F
Beautiful.
- [56:24]
D
And so I think that gives you, like, a clear view of, like, I am not just guessing that this is right. It really shows us that we are on the right side of this thing and that we are truly standing up for what is good, what is moral, what is just.
- [56:42]
C
Charlie agreed with you all that turning point in the movement were powered by grassroots and from people like you, students, young people like you. So I think he'd been impressed by the conversation and by the three of you. Sidonia Seco, Millersville University. Theo Graybill, University of Kansas. Emma Arne. So grateful to you all for making time and for sharing your remembrances and your hopes for the future. And as I said, I think Charlie Kirk himself would have been quite proud to hear the conversation.
- [57:09]
F
Thank you so much.
- [57:10]
D
Really grateful that you had us.
- [57:12]
F
So grateful.
- [57:13]
C
All right, quick break. Don't go away. Next up, Isabel Brown joins our conversation to continue talking about Charlie Kirk and his legacy. That's next up. Stay with us. Hey, Everybody. If you're 64 years old or older, this is an important announcement. The Department of Justice recently sued three major Medicare brokers for claiming they were unbiased while allegedly pushing people into plans that got them the biggest kickbacks. It's true. So many insurance agents, they just can't be trusted. But you can't necessarily rely on government resources either. So what to do? Well, I want you to know about chapter. CHAPTER was started by people who went through this exact thing personally after their own parents were pushed into the wrong Medicare plan by an agent who was more focused on commissions than on good care. Chapter's mission is very simple. Give every American the honest, straightforward Medicare advice they deserve. And here's what's different about them. They're the only Medicare advisor that compares every plan nationwide, not just a handful. That saves their clients. Get this, an average of eleven hundred dollars every year. There's no reason not to call. It's quick, it's easy, and they can review your options in under 20 minutes. If you're already in the right plan, they'll let you know that. But if they see a better plan, they'll help you make the switch. This could be the most important call you make this year. Dial right now. £250 and say chapter Medicare. To get that peace of mind again, that's £250 and say chapter Medicare.
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- [59:17]
C
All right, next up, a little bit of reflection on the conversation we just heard and about the legacy of Charlie Kirk with Isabel Brown, who hosts the Isabel Brown show on the Daily Wire. I make my standard joke brilliant name for the show. Isabelle. How'd you come up with it?
- [59:31]
G
Thank you, indeed. You know, my parents named me 28 years ago, and it just stuck, so I had to stick with it.
- [59:37]
C
Yeah. Isabel, for those of you who don't know, is a. Is a great creator of all sorts of content, including her new show. An activist, an author, and someone who has her finger pretty much well on the pulse of the kind of people we just talked to last segment. So, Isabel, you started your show right, the week that Charlie was assassinated and have been involved in lots of conversations. I'd love for you to talk about what struck you about those three young people and what they represent, about Charlie's legacy and about the movement going forward.
- [60:06]
G
Yeah. First and foremost, Mark, I just have to say thank you for honoring so many of these students because that's truly how I got my start in the conservative movement. I was a turning Point USA chapter president, just like those students were with a rickety folding table and handing people a socialism sucks button on my college campus every day. Which is why I fell in love with this world and with this movement we're dedicating so much of our lives to. To revive the American dream and to give Western civilization a blueprint we can be proud to call home again in the future. It's not flashy, and it doesn't necessarily get you a whole lot of extra clicks, but those stories of students really are the heart and soul of the conservative movement, and they truly are the warriors putting their lives on the front lines every single day of the culture war, just like Charlie did. So it was an honor to be able to listen to some of their stories this morning. As you mentioned, we launched my show on Monday, three weeks ago, and Charlie was killed on Wednesday of that week, which was truly a baptism by fire of commentary in the middle of what can only be described as the most tragic experience experience of my adult life. And I was incredibly blessed and still am thanking God daily that I was one of the last people to share the stage with Charlie at one of his last speaking engagements on this earth a week before he died in California at a beautiful church community. On behalf of the pro life community and Was able to spend about two hours behind the scenes backstage with Charlie before our speeches, which we never have the luxury of doing. And all he wanted to talk about was God and his deep, deep faith, his mission and vocation from the Holy Spirit to tell people the truth, which always leads them back to God. And he seemed so centered on that mission, far above getting anyone elected to a presidency position, pushing any sort of political agenda or getting people registered to vote. His real calling at the end of the day, and I think really transcended his entire messaging in the later half of his life, was God and bringing people to the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, into understanding our mission as Christians in the culture war, to always put that at the forefront of what we do. So I was incredibly moved today hearing the stories of these students recentering their mission on that as well. And ultimately, this turning point that we're seeing in the country in the last three weeks is so much bigger than fighting for limited government and free speech and conservative political principles. It's a turning point back repenting away from the brokenness and sin our society has seen over the last 10 years and embracing the fullness of God's love for society, which I know Charlie would be more proud of than anything else he left behind.
- [62:39]
C
Yeah. Should the mission of the organization shift more in that direction? More of a. More of a faith organization, or should they keep the politics agenda? That was a big part of what Charlie spent his time on as well.
- [62:51]
G
You know, I think it already has shifted quite substantially. A few years ago, Turning Point USA launched a different division of the company called TPUSA Faith, where they were having a lot of these similar conversations with pastors and priests and religious podcasters and people more involved in the religious side of things. But what made Charlie so unique, and I think what his vocation was so special given from the Lord for was that he understood the reality that Christians are not of this world. We know that our home ultimately is in heaven, but that doesn't negate our responsibility to act in this world. In fact, at that last speaking engagement that we shared the stage on, one of the last things Charlie said before we opened it up for Q and A was that he's frustrated often that the church used eschatology or end time prophecy and theology to essentially use it as an excuse for us not to act in the world. To say, well, Jesus is coming back and the world's so crazy that I don't need to worry about that. I can let God take care of it. We are called to be stewards of the society that we live in and to influence our communities and our countries toward good. To make sure that we are always pursuing what is good and true and beautiful and. And I think back to those last few words that he said on stage. I have no idea if he had some sort of premonition about anything or just knew that he was on operating urgent time. Certainly he said, eschatology is not an excuse for the church not to act in the world. I know, I know one of you, during the Q and A, is going to come approach me and say, charlie, I've got it all figured out. Jesus is coming back next Thursday. We'll all be in heaven next Thursday, Thursday, and we don't have to worry about this. Well, coincidentally, he died the following Wednesday. And I get chills thinking about that, even still a couple of weeks out of this experience. But he knew more than anyone I've ever met that we have to make sure it is on earth as it is in heaven. We can't just keep our eyes fixed on heaven. So I think having one foot on the religious side and one foot on the more political, secular side is exactly where turning point is and needs to be moving forward.
- [64:48]
C
Yeah, the minute he was assassinated, the journalistic mind of mine said, I know what's going to happen. I'm going to hear from a lot of Democrats involved in public life, read the news, who are going to say, huh, never heard of him or didn't realize he was such a big deal. And I said, it's going to be incumbent upon people who did understand what a big deal he was to explain patiently why he mattered so much. What does it say about the country that someone who was objectively so important to our politics, our culture, to young people around the country, like we just heard from, was unknown, basically to so many smart people in blue America. What does that say about the country?
- [65:33]
G
That's a fascinating observation and one I haven't really reflected on much up to this point, but I think reflects this idea of what we often talk about in the culture war, that we are living in two different Americas. The media that we're consuming, the conversations we're having around the family dinner table, who we surround ourselves with in our friend group, the entertainment that we watch with our family on Saturday night. You either are living in the fight of the conservative movement to be pushing towards what is good and true and beautiful, or this upside down woke reality that the left has really hijacked every cultural institution in America to push their agenda through the education system, Hollywood the government, even the church in many ways has reflected that over the past few years. That's a problem, truly, especially in moments of crisis like we've seen in the wake of Charlie's violent assassination. Because I often think about what our parents would tell our generation about the day after 9, 11, when there was such a common enemy that it didn't matter what you looked like, who you voted for, what language you grew up speaking at home, what your most inmost values really were in your family unit. You were able to link arms and, and say, we are a United States of America and this is who we are. We are going to keep standing up, keep existing, and it's imperative that we keep fighting for freedom for those who come after us. That's not what we've seen in the wake of Charlie's death. And in many ways I think it feels like what our parents described the morning after 9 11, that it was a whole different world. It is a totally different reality. And I think people are waking up to the fact that there are so many people who are actively celebrating Charlie's assassination. They're calling for more violence against political commentators. We broke a story this morning of an EPA staffer who lost their job this week saying that he wanted every right wing commentator essentially to face the exact same fate as Charlie Kirk. There are streamers on Twitch playing video games like Destiny is his screen name. A young man named Stephen saying all right wingers should be afraid of being killed when they go to political events. And this man is still monetized on the Internet, still makes a living as a content creator. That feels new, but at the same time, I think it's a wake up call for so many people on the left to realize just how far the Democrat Party and the left wing of American politics has gone. They want nothing associated with this bloodthirsty vengeance and anger to the point of assassination for people who think differently from them. And I hope it's a turning point for the country to be able to explain, experience that United States of America feeling again.
- [68:01]
C
You're a person of faith and a big believer. Turning point and the leadership there is extraordinary. One of the many things Charlie was underrated at. He kind of downplayed his managerial abilities, claimed he didn't have them, but he built an extraordinary organization from scratch. Over $100 million budget, all the different divisions. How worried are you that he is irreplaceable? That for all the efforts that people are making to help and from the President to Erica to others, that really he's singular and the organization can't thrive as it did in his life.
- [68:34]
G
Charlie was really my closest mentor in the political world over the past few years. As you know, Mark, I never set out to work in politics or in media. I was pre med in college. I was a nerdy biomedical sciences student and ultimately aimed at being a trauma surgeon. Just trying to use my love of science and to help people and got involved in the conservative movement somewhat by accident. I won't spare your viewers the very long story about this, but attended a TPUSA conference and completely fell in love with the mission of the organization and the mission that Charlie Kirk dedicated his life to. Backwards by accident. Fell into the world of commentary after Charlie encouraged me, don't go work at a fluorescently lit hospital anymore. You should pursue this gift that God has given you and we're going to help you do that. Charlie was so, so skilled not just at building an empire of his organization or building an army of followers to follow his mission, but by building other people. And today there are members of Congress, there are vice presidents of the United States and many other commentators like myself, who owe everything in our careers to Charlie Kirk and his ability to spot talent and help foster and disciple that talent through very long periods of friendship and mentorship over the years. So in many ways, you're right. Charlie Kirk can never be replaced. He had enormous shoes to fill, quite literally because he was such a tall man. He really did have giant shoes. But there will never be another voice, mind and heart, like Charlie Kirk. And the world is sorely hurting and heartbroken over the loss of that. But I am so encouraged to see people link arms from the White House to other media organizations, to the existing turning point employees, and now an entire generation that has been inspired by his message to no longer lack the courage to speak up and to devote everything they can in their careers, their spheres of influence, their families, their college campuses, and so much more to keep passing that torch forward. I'm not worried at all for the future of the organization, and I certainly am more inspired about the conservative movement at large, even bigger than tpusa. Now more than ever before in the last decade, working for the movement.
- [70:38]
C
What do you say to people who are not. Not sharing your optimism at the organization, but who are angry that he was taken, who are angry about the reaction from some people, you know, celebrating his assassination and maybe don't feel as hopeful as you and those young people do? What do you say to those folks?
- [70:58]
G
Anger is not necessarily a bad emotion to be feeling at this moment in time. And it's obviously something that those of us who know Charlie so well have all been struggling with over the past three weeks. Grief comes in waves. And I think the anger wave hits us every couple of days, at the very least, if not every few hours. And it's something I've really been struggling with as well. But Father Mike Schmitz, the host of the Bible in a Year podcast and one of my favorite creators on the Internet, appeared on Megan Kelly's podcast the day or two days after Charlie was killed and said that if you're not feeling angry about this, then you're not really a human being. You have righteous anger for a reason. Because our emotions mean we were made in the image of God. We're so supposed to feel a threat of common humanity between all of us. And when you watch a father of two children and a husband to a beautiful wife have his life so publicly and violently taken from him for the only crime of wanting to have honest conversations with people he disagreed with, that should make you angry. But we are not ever supposed to stay in anger. And that's what I think people need to remember about Charlie's mission in life, is that more than anything else, Charlie wanted to follow the teachings of Christ. He wanted to share the love of Christ with the world. And I know Erica has been the perfect example of that in the wake of his death, even using her time on stage at the memorial 11 days after he was killed, to publicly forgive the man who violently took her husband's life. It's hard. It's a hard thing to do. And you saw her emotion as she walked through that horrific experience on stage and being able to share that vulnerability with people. I think you're seeing all of our anger reacting to. To so many of these people calling for more violent crime and violent assassinations of other people on the right. But never let your anger become unrighteous or overshadow your joyful mission to carry this torch forward, because ultimately, we only get one life, and it's not guaranteed to stay here. We have to always keep our eyes fixed on what's coming next and try to make earth a little bit more like heaven, not the other way around.
- [72:57]
C
Isabel, you're one of literally about 1,000 people I know who knew Charlie far better than I did. And I was such a student of his mind as a journalist and eager to understand how he did what he did, because there's really never been anyone like him. There's other people who've been involved in media and Politics and organization and building faith and inspiring young people. But I can't think of an example, not just currently, but ever, in part because of his sophisticated use of all the technology that never, never existed before. What allowed him to do all that? Besides a work ethic? What allowed him, what was it about his mind, his attitude that allowed him to do so many things at a very high level?
- [73:40]
G
When I met Charlie, his mission for Turning Point USA was so much simpler than what it was at the end of his life. I met Charlie in 2017, so he was in his early 20s and wore very ill fitting baggy suits and white New Balance dad sneakers. And everyone gave him such a hard time for it. But even back then he had this ethic of work and this ethic of service to other people that I have never seen before. We joked over the years that he probably only slept for about 30 minutes a night. And sometimes even then he would take a nap at 2 or 3pm in the afternoon instead of sleeping at night so that he could constantly be dedicating himself to his mission. But what I really noticed shift over the years at TPUSA from first being involved as a student to later as a contributor and media personality for the organization, and now as an alumnus working in the larger conservative movement, was that Charlie's mission became bigger than limited government, free speech and free markets, which was what the foundation of Turning Point USA was. At some point he realized that the source of truth, which was what our society is so desperately missing, has to come from one source only, and that is God. We believe truth has a name with a capital T, and that name is Jesus Christ. And when he started fully devoting the mission of his organization, his commentary as his radio show and television show, and what he was doing on campus to God, you saw a softness about him that just created this mass adaptability to speaking to an entire generation, young men, young women, young conservatives, young liberals. Immediately people's guard went down the moment they started conversing with him. Even in those hot button debate moments on college campuses that turned into the viral clips on Twitter and beyond, because people realized this was a young man who woke up every day and said, here I am, Lord, send me, use me as a megaphone for whatever you want to tell the world. And I think there's only a supernatural explanation for the following that Charlie has grown over the last few years, but look how much it's grown. Even after his death, he was fully prepared for losing his life for his country, and for the mission of bringing people to his Lord and Savior to Jesus Christ. And his Instagram following alone, I think speaks to that. In the last few weeks, Charlie had about 3 million followers on Instagram when he died. It's well over 13 million followers now in just three weeks. So I have a feeling that his message and his voice is not going anywhere. Even though as a Christian, they just changed his address to heaven instead of here on earth.
- [76:07]
C
You and I know a bunch of people who host shows like we do, and that's pretty much all they do. And they're so busy. Oh my God, the show is on so often. I'm so busy. And then there are people like us. You're getting another degree, you've got a new and you start a new family. I do other stuff too, but Charlie hosted a Daily show and then ran $100 million organization and did every other thing he did. So I, I believe the Lord will not rest to all of us have daily shows, not just the two of us, but I mean, pretty much everyone on earth at some point needs to have a daily Show. Tell folks about your show. When's it on? Who should listen to it? What's it? As we say in Canada, a boot.
- [76:47]
G
We are on the Daily Wire, Mark, and it has been incredibly exciting to see this organization continue to grow into their next 10 years as well. I think the conservative movement is in for its strongest era ever in American history, and it's very exciting to be a part of that. I host the Isabel Brown show every single day, even when we're traveling on the road, which is all always very fun, but what would Charlie Kirk do, right? And our episodes come out at 1:00pm Eastern Time on Daily Wire. Plus for the Daily Wire subscribers and 2:00 clock everywhere else, all podcast platforms, my social media channels, et cetera. We cover everything from politics to religion to what food you're eating. My journey as a new parent and marriage and really trying to recapture the culture of America, to write a new American dream for Generation Z and beyond as we grow into adulthood and take the reins of our country back from evil.
- [77:36]
C
I'm not saying your colleagues at the Daily Wire are snobs, but they have high standards. And I talked to some of them right before your show launch and they were so excited. They were like, isabel Brown show joins our crown jewels. So they're excited. And your success testifies to the fact that your audience is excited. So grateful to you for making time and for sharing and so inspired, as I was by those young people of how you're with Three weeks since he was assassinated. How you're able to put it into context and optimism about the future ain't easy. And it's really admirable to see you be able to do that. And again, congratulations on the program.
- [78:11]
G
Thank you so much. And thank you for honoring Charlie's life as well.
- [78:14]
C
Okay, thank you. Thank you. Isabelle Brown again host the daily program, the Isabel Brown show on the Daily Wire. Thank you. So, as you can tell, I'm on a bit of a mission. I think it's so important for the country to understand, especially including, and especially those who didn't really know Charlie Kirk or follow his career, what he was about, what his legacy is. And I thought the three young folks who have been part of chapters on their campuses, and Isabel gave people an idea, I hope, about why Charlie Kirk's legacy is so powerful for so many and can't help but be inspired by how optimistic they are about his life, even in his death. And I thought what Isabel said about anger was also super important because I see it every day in talking to people, maybe especially those who dealt with Charlie in politics, how angry they are at the left, how angry they are about what happened and how questioning they are about what happens with the path forward. This is an important topic to deal with and to not let him be forgotten. And, of course, there will be memorials to him and the organization will honor him regularly. But I think in the daily media conversation that we have, where we're talking about government shutdown and politics in the midterms and New Jersey and Virginia governor's races, it's so important to remember why this man mattered so much to a movement, to an organization, but to young people and the reckoning, particularly on college campuses where liberals and a lot of the media still don't understand what it's been like to be punished on campus as a young person, high school student, college student, for your political views, they don't understand what that's been like. And I think whether you're conservative or liberal, whether you're concerned about politics or not or political debate or not, to have young people have more freedom to say what they think, to talk about what they believe, to organize as they wish, that's also fundamental to America. And even those who disliked Charlie Kirk or didn't agree with his agenda, I think they should be grateful that someone said it's important for college students, whatever they believe, to be able to say what they believe. That's an extraordinary legacy, and that's not a legacy of the right or of red America. That's a legacy for all of us to unshackle those on college campuses who previously felt either had to be silent or pay a price, a high price, for their political views. That's it. That alone is an extraordinary legacy. And I hope those of you who didn't know before know that that's a big part of what Charlie Kirk left behind. That's it for today's show. Let me know what you think. Send me an email nextup halpernmail.com as you see, sometimes your emails can program the program and we're grateful for that. You can find us always on X, on Instagram, on TikTok, the handle xuphalperin. And if you want to watch the program, not just listen to it as a podcast, go to YouTube. It's YouTube.com NextUp Halperin. Make sure if you go there, subscribe, download, like, etc. We want you to be a nexter and we want you to help spread the word. Wherever you get your podcasts on YouTube or any other platform, please join us regularly. Please spread the word about us so you and yours will always know what's coming next stop. See you next week.