← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
U.S. Weighs War with Iran, Trump Faces MAGA Backlash, Plus David Mamet on Israel, Hollywood and TDS
01:04:24
Mark Halperin kicks off today’s show with a deep dive into Trump’s foreign policy philosophy, his instinct to avoid war, and the factors influencing a potential U.S. entry into the Israel-Iran conflict. Then, Mark examines the backlash Trump is facing from some in the MAGA movement, why parts of the isolationist right oppose a war with Iran, and what that might mean for the country and his administration. Then, legendary playwright, David Mamet, joins Mark to share his thoughts on Israel’s current position and why he believes Prime Minister Netanyahu is “bringing peace to the Middle East.” Mamet argues that Trump’s rhetoric might actually produce results—and that “being nice” isn’t a real strategy. Plus, Mamet weighs in on Hollywood, Democrats, Trump Derangement Syndrome, and more.
Loading summary
Transcript91 lines
- [00:00]
Mark Halperin
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson Report. Foreign welcome back. I'm Mark Halperin, editor in chief of the two Way Live video platform and the host of this show. Next up here on the Megyn Kelly Network. Thank you for joining in just a little bit. We'll be joined by the great writer David Mamet, who's got a new book out. Every time the guy's interviewed, he's just gushed over by the host. So I'll do my share of gushing, but maybe not quite as gushy because guy's probably sick of it. Pleasure to have you here. I like to continue to say I'll probably say it for the first five years, we're a new show. So if you're watching or listening on YouTube or on a podcast platform, please help us out. Like subscribe, share, tell all your friends. We're grateful to have built the audience we've built so far and looking forward to more. David Mamet, as I said, will be next up. But first, let's answer the question that is dominating the world right now. Why would a man who hates war and loves negotiations, that's what he's done his whole career, why would he consider military action against Iran? This is a dilemma for Donald Trump, right? Biggest decision perhaps of his presidency that he's faced. And it's an interesting challenge because right now you've got a divide within the country. On the far left, people like David Hogg, who's been vice chairman of the dnc, saying absolutely no involvement in a conflict like this. And then you've got people in Donald Trump's own party, part of the MAGA movement, like Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Taylor Greene, saying, absolutely not, sounding a lot like David Hogg. And yet Donald Trump and his advisors recognize that this is a different kind of moment. For so many other people in the party, including people in the MAGA movement, there is a sense of an opportunity that has not existed for Donald Trump in his presidency, including his first term and for his four predecessors, all of whom and for Joe Biden, all of whom recognized that Iran is just not, it's not just a Bad actor. Iran is a special case not just because it's sponsored terrorism around the region and around the world, not just because it has ballistic missiles, but nuclear capability poised to have a nuclear weapon. And Donald Trump has been quite clear, as were his predecessors, Iran cannot be allowed to nuclear to. To get a nuclear weapon. What are the two ways people have talked about stopping it? One is a negotiation and the other is military action. And so what I want to try to do is tell you where I think Donald Trump's head has gotten, that's gotten him to this point. Why is someone who does not like war, has been outspoken and critical of President Bush, for instance, in Iraq, in saying these are not the kind of things the United States should be doing. How his, how did his head get to this place? First of all, Donald Trump shares with Benjamin Netanyahu that the clock has run out, that Iran is too close to developing a nuclear weapon. That's intelligence that some dispute. But the international agencies that monitor Iraq's capability, Israeli intelligence, they are quite clear that Iran is a danger for the world as it's on the doorstep of marrying up two technologies, ballistic missiles, including intercontinental ballistic missiles that could reach the United States and certainly reach Israel, and nuclear capability. And the other thing that has come across or that has come to a head is the Israeli intelligence, Israeli military, they've been studying the question of how to use intelligence and military capability for decades to take out Iran's nuclear program and missile program, how to execute that. And part of what Donald Trump, I believe, is, has caused him to be in this position to reach this conclusion is an awareness of what Israel has. Donald Trump has enormous respect for the Israeli intelligence community for their military capability. This is something about Donald Trump. He's in awe of anything that's best in the world. He loves great singers, he loves great athletes. Anything that's great where he can say that's as good as it exists on the planet, he loves and he's fascinated by people who can achieve that kind of excellence. He generously praises them. And you've heard him talk about in the last few days the Israeli intelligence capability, the Israeli military capability. That gives him confidence. Looking at Israel's history of accomplishment on offense and defense, it gives him confidence that he can partner with Israel and work with them to eliminate something that he has said repeatedly must be eliminated, Iran's capacity to produce a nuclear weapon in the context of, of the historical success of Israel going against its enemies in the region, its adversaries in the region. Donald Trump, one factor for him is Israel knows how to do this. He's delighted to partner with what I would argue is maybe the best side, or the best force rather, for intelligent marrying intelligence capability with a military goal. I don't think anyone literally in the history of the planet has done it better than, than the Israelis, and Donald Trump knows that. Second factor, I think, is Iran and this place they're in. They are weaker than they've ever been since they started to pose this threat to the world. Their proxies in the region have been either eliminated or seriously diminished by Israel and by others. Israel last year, in their conflict with Iran, started to degrade Iran's air abilities. And in this conflict, they've eliminated Iran's ability to control the skies over their own country. That's a big advantage. As you think about a US Military involvement, it's going to be from the air. And what the United States doesn't want to go into is to face an Iran that has the capability to fight with or shoot down American aircraft. Israel's eliminated that. That makes this much more likely. And as I said, Iran's not just a bad actor. Iran, maybe after Putin, is the worst actor on the planet, maybe more so than North Korea. If you look at their threat to Israel, if you look at how destabilizing they are in the Middle east, the threat they pose to energy prices, their capacity to threaten American interests directly, you look at all that and you say, this is an opportunity, I believe, that the President sees to eliminate what they are able to do. Then you think about the context in which all this has played out over the last several days as the President considers military action. One is the reaction from around the world. There has been condemnation of Israel by the Saudis, the Gulf states. Some in Europe have urged the restraint on the part of the Israelis. And there are some domestic voices even, even beyond isolationist maga, including the Democratic Party, that have said, you know, they don't love this. But you think about what the reaction might have been, would have been only a few years ago how the world would have reacted to an Israeli strike like this. Now Israel says it's a matter of defense, it's its existential need. But it was a preemptive attack. And, and some would say it was an overkill. And yet the reaction has been pretty muted. And, and, and there are people around the President who say they've noticed that muted reaction. They recognize that there's an openness to this. The market's the same thing. Some markets are down, and obviously people are concerned about energy prices, but you've not seen a collapse in markets. And again, if you had said in a political science course or it's a, as a war game a few years ago, what would happen to energy prices in the markets if Israel attacked Iran? You'd be predicting a worldwide recession. Panic really hasn't happened and that I think is a factor. Then I'll say again, Israel, to make this successful, to make this successful, they must eliminate Iran's nuclear capability. Leave regime change aside for a moment. The whole point of this mission is to set back the Iranian nuclear program to zero. Not degraded as they've done in the past with previous operations, but to set it back to zero. And in order to do that, they have to take out the capability at a place called Fordo. It's one of the main Iran nuclear Capab nuclear sites and it's in a mountain, it's buried deep underground purposely because the Israelis don't have the capability to take it out. There's one country in the world with the military capability to take out Forta and that's the United States using B52s with these bunker busting bombs that can burrow deep down and take it out. Now, could Israel take out Fordo some other way? They've said in the last few days that they can take it out or that it will be taken out. You could, you could get people in there and access the facility and explode it that way. But the reason the United States is, is poised for this, the reason the United States is, has had to consider this is because if you want to take out Fordo, if you want to restrain Iran's nuclear capability and take it down to zero, the only way is to have the United States involved. And Donald Trump knows that. Just as previous presidents have endless conversations between Israeli prime ministers and particularly Netanyahu and American presidents about would the United states allow its B52s to be used in this way. And again, it's the moment when American, American president has finally considered it in a serious way. We've seen US assets move to the region, military assets move to the region. Now that could be just as a show of support for Israel. It could also be to be ready in case Iran strikes. President Trump has said if the United States and Secretary Rubio said it as well, if the United States is hit by Iran in some way and Iran could do that, then the United States would retaliate. So those forces could be there in anticipation of a possible need to retaliate. But it could also be according to my sources, part of this operation, the B52s would need to be refueled, they'd need to be serviced, they'd need to be protected. It's also the case that although Donald Trump says mixed things about Russia, to say the least, that Russia would be suffering a loss because Iran has been a staunch ally of Russia, common cause within the Middle East. And if you're looking to push back on Russia, as many in Trump administration are, an Iranian loss would have the added benefit, eliminating their nuclear capacity, of changing things in the balance of power and adversely to Russia. I look also at people in the administration. I look at people on Capitol Hill who get briefed by the administration, their allies, for instance, on the Intelligence Committee in the Senate. The body language also suggests that there's quiet support for this. Not universally, but there is quiet support for this. Then we get to regime change. That's more complicated. There's no doubt that if you said to most policymakers in the United States the previous democratic presence, do you want there to be a plan to eliminate Iran's nuclear and missile capability? Yeah, there's pretty big consensus around that. Maybe not how it would be done, but that it should be done. But should the United States and Israel do anything to foster regime change in Iran? All the negatives, all the dangers associated with that, they're pretty intense. Right. What would happen if the current government fell? No tears would be shed for the current leaders, and many of them have already been killed by the Israelis, and probably more will be as well. But what happens if they're gone? What steps into place now? Iran has a big middle class, upper middle class, a lot of educated people. The assumption is if they were given an opportunity to change their form of government more, less, more secular, more representative, less repressive, that they would choose that. But we don't really know that for sure. And so whenever you're talking about a military action that could, and the Israelis have been quite open about this, that could lead to regime change in Iran, you have to be worried, and President Trump is worried about it, as are his advisors. What would happen? Would there be bloodshed? Would there be counter revolution? Would there be factions? Who would control the military? Would there be elections? What role would Israel and the United States play? Who in Iran might step forward to be a leader, to try to transition from this long running, repression, repressive regime that sponsored terrorism to something else? This is a really tough choice. But you've seen lots of prominent voices in the United States, a lot of calmness, even Ones who aren't always favorable to Donald Trump say, maybe it's time for regime change. It's been the wish of many American presidents that it would happen organically, that there'd be a revolution not inspired by an Israeli attack or an American attack, but rather happen organically, as has happened at some countries in the region. Doesn't seem like it. It seems like the theocracy in Iran, the dictatorship in Iran, has enough control over society that that hasn't happened. In fact, even as the attacks from Israel have come, there have been very few signs within Iran that the people would like to rise up to take advantage of the opportunity. But it's another factor that Donald Trump has to consider. And you consider it on both sides. There are people in the administration who say, yeah, the Israelis want regime change, that would be good. Let them take the lead on it. But if our actions in working in concert with Israel lead to regime change in Iran, great. Then there are people in the administration who have the attitude of, we've seen this movie before, we don't want to be part of that. Donald Trump, as, as military action gets pondered, has to think about that. What's he going to do if the government falls there? The Iranians are trying to convince the Trump administration they're ready to negotiate. And the body language for the president as he left Canada, back from the G7, to me, to my ear, the body language there was a tell that he's, he's, he's done negotiating. If the Iranians want to surrender, if the Iranians want to say, we're willing to get rid of our nuclear program, we'll acknowledge that we had one. We're ending it out. We're giving up our nuclear capacity, we're giving up our missiles. I think that president would take a victory lap on that. But there's no indication that that's the posture of the Iranians. Everything the Iranians are saying to the other allies in the Middle east, the countries who they'll deal with as intermediaries, is, yeah, let's have a ceasefire and talk about. Were willing to talk. Donald Trump likes to negotiate, but he doesn't like to waste time. And he doesn't like to negotiate people who he doesn't think are negotiating in good faith. Many people in the White House, many people in the administration say it's too late to negotiate with them. And, and they're not negotiating in good faith. That's not a total view. And, and the president's got a nuanced view on this. He'll Take a negotiation, but it's got to be in good faith. The biggest thing I hear about from folks is maga. The biggest thing I hear about in the context of what's the President going to do? What's the President been thinking? Will the president follow through with action? And it's interesting because Donald Trump's been pretty dismissive of maga, been pretty dismissive when Tucker Carlson did a high profile interview with Steve Bannon, was very critical of the prospect of America getting directly involved with this war and even aiding Israel the way it's been done, been criticized by some in maga. Donald Trump lashed back at his friend Tucker, criticized Tucker. There's also speculation that there are other people in maga, maybe even within the administration who share Tucker's point of view. Tulsi Gabbard, people speculate about, the Vice president, people speculate about. I believe that the President is well aware of where MAGA is on this, but he doesn't always side with, with, with the, the far part of maga, the part, the isolationist part of maga. We've seen him engage in military activity in the past. He believes in speaking loudly and carrying a big stick, but only using it when he thinks it's essential. And as I've said, I think the conditions, if you're someone who believes as he does, Iran can never have a nuclear weapon, the United States must do everything it can to keep Iran from having a nuclear capability. If you're someone who believes that, like Donald Trump, this is the moment, there's never been a moment like this. The folks in MAGA got to respect their, their principle. You got to respect their point of view. They don't believe that this is in the United States interest. But what the President is saying when he tells people repeatedly that he's always been resolute, they cannot have a nuclear weapon, what he's saying in effect is tell me your plan, tell me your plan to get rid of Iran's nuclear capability. If I'm not going to seize this moment, what am I going to do? Because negotiation hasn't worked. Israel has engaged in his, in, in his historically engaged in extraordinary capability to have human spies on the ground in Iran, to assassinate individual nuclear scientists. It's been incredible, incredible story of how effective Israel working with allies has been in keeping Iran from getting there, slowing down their progress. This has been taking years and years where this has occurred. But the challenge is, again, from the Israeli point of view, time is up. And so you see this confluence. And again, the presidencies the confluence. Iran's never been weaker, never been more vulnerable to the kind of attack that Israel's engaged in, that the United States, if they help, makes a big difference. And the urgency has never been higher because Iran is closer. According to the intelligence information that the Israelis have. They've never been closer to having the capability to marry up a nuclear warhead with a missile that can reach Israel and maybe even the United States. That's the moment. That's the, that's the reason this consideration for Donald Trump has been so front and center, causing him to leave the G7 meeting back to the White House and, and making a decision that, again, as I say, could be the most momentous decision of his presidency, really the most momentous decision of his life. Because taking out Iran's capability has tons of risk. Talked about some, the possibility of chaos in Iran, backlash from Iran. If they're struck by the United States, they may still have some capability to strike back, although the Israelis have degraded so much of it. But in addition, there's the risk of what happens to nuclear material. Does it fly all over the Middle east in a way that sickens people and turns a generation of young people against the United States? We really don't know very much about what's going on with public opinion in Iran. There's always speculation that there's a large group of middle class, upper middle class, well educated folks ready to be part of a new government, ready to be part of taking the country in a new direction. But we don't know that. We don't know that for sure. We worry here that whatever the president is able to do, whatever he chooses to do in a sustained military campaign, if that's, if that's the direction of going sustained, what are the implications? No question, no question in my mind that there will be no boots to the ground. There'll be no American forces there, the way we saw in Iraq, and Iraq is the precedent, the Tucker and Other site all the time. So how do you keep this from being another. The most simple one is to, is to say, no, no American forces on the ground, maybe special ops, but no, no American forces on the ground in any significant numbers. And no attempt, no attempt to try to shape who's in the government. Now, I think the Israelis will do that. I think the Israelis probably already have a list of people who they think could be in the government. Americans can help another way besides the government private sector investment. Imagine you've got all these extraordinarily successful business people, many in high tech, in the United States who have Iranian backgrounds, Iranian Americans who are, who follow closely what happens in their country, where their families came from. They could be marshaled, they could be public in saying to the Iranian people, if you get rid of the current government, if your country is open for business again to the west, we can do a lot of business, we can create a lot of wealth in Iran. And that's another appreciation that the President has for the Iranian people, that they are extraordinarily successful historically at commerce, very well educated. And. And again, the, the number of successful Iranian business people, I was Googling the other day to look at lists, and it's extraordinary, the number of prominent American business people, some well known, some not, but who achieved enormous success at figuring out how do you create wealth in this country. And many of them would be eager to go back to Iran, whether they, whether they were born there or not, and help the country change. So there's the possibility that that could happen without the United States government doing what it did in Iraq, which everybody recognizes now is a huge mistake. You cannot put American forces on the ground and force people to go in a direction they don't want to go. Would Israel stay there? Probably not. Would the Saudis come in? Who knows? The point is Iran didn't have a lot of friends around the world, with the exception of Russia and a few others. And so how do you make this happen? Donald Trump does not want to go to war. He doesn't. He's quite clear about that. And it's one of the things that some of the critics on the left say. You know, he's a warmonger. He, he doesn't understand the costs of war. He does, although he did not serve himself. Anyone who's had a private conversation with him about these issues, or if you listen to what he says in public, he does not want to go to war. This is a hugely important and risky set of decisions to make, but they're decisions that are made in a very specific context of time and place. Hard to think of that, many historical precedents like this, but this is one, as I've said, decades, decades of presidents have said, how do we disarm them? President Obama did a deal, very close call for a lot of people whether that deal was good on, on the maga. Right. They considered it a failure. But there's only two ways to get this done. And if you're not going to do a deal, then you're going to have to use military action or you're going to have to deal with the Consequences. And Donald Trump will not deal with the consequences. And with Netanyahu, he's got a partner who right now understands the need to be nice to the United States, to be respectful to the president. They haven't always had the best relationship. They had some rockiness after the 2020 presidential election, to be sure. But right now, these are two guys who have a clear understanding of the moment. Netanyahu has been extremely aggressive, and as I said, the backlash has not been that great. I would have expected a significantly greater backlash to what Israel has done, and that is the context in which these presidential decisions are being made. The decision to do what can only be done in the moment and which must be done is a big part of what's animating the president. If Iran backs down, the attacks can stop. But if Iran does not do what it needs to do, Donald Trump, I believe his patience is done. The Israelis patience is done for sure. But I believe the American president's patience has done as well. This will be resolved. He wants to get it resolved. It's the same thing attitude he has towards China. Part of what he wants his legacy to be is to solve things that weren't previously solved, both by him in the first term and by other presidents. Other presidents left office, in most cases with Iran in a stronger position than when they took office. That's not what Donald Trump wants. He wants to put them in a weaker position. And the clearest way to do that is eliminate their nuclear capability and their ballistic missile capability. And regime change. Regime change is dicey. And I tell everybody, if you support regime change, you need to be ready to own the possible negative implications of a change in the government. You got to go into it eyes wide open. You cannot go into it rosy colored. And that's a big daunting thing for the president because he knows full well the negative possibilities. Even if there's no active effort to foster regime change, it could happen indirectly because of American action. And he knows that's happening on his watch. It's a risk. But the biggest risk, the biggest risk for Israel, the biggest risk for the United States, the biggest issue risk for the world, is the status quo. And that is why at this moment, you can expect the United States to seize the opportunity for President Trump to make what I say, again, maybe the hardest decision of his life. All right, next up, the extraordinary writer David Mamet. We'll talk about what's going on in the world with him, his new book, and then about the craft of writing. That's all next up, right Here. Okay, everybody, let me tell you a story. Now, it's about a guy named Leo Grillo. Leo was on a road trip and he came across a Doberman. Doberman was severely underweight and the Doberman was clearly in a lot of trouble. So Leo rescued the dog and he gave him a name, Delta. Sadly, though, Delta is just one of many animals that needs help, which inspired Leo to start Delta Rescue. It's the largest no kill, care for life animal sanctuary in the entire world. They've rescued thousands of dogs and cats and horses from the wilderness and they always provide their animals with shelter, love, safety, and a good home. This dedication and everlasting love to animals is Leo's mission and it's his legacy. Delta Rescue relies solely on contributions from people like all of us. So if you want caring for these animals to be part of your legacy, speak right now with your estate planner. Because there are tax savings and estate planning benefits as well. You can grow your estate while letting your love for animals live well into the future. Right now. Check out the estate planning tab on their website to learn more and to speak with an advisor we all call Dog's Man's Best Friend for a good reason. You can help those dogs who need it most right now. Please visit deltarescue.org to learn more again today, go to deltarescue.org Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson Report. All right, next up, a most enjoyable book. If you host shows, you get sent a lot of books and you gotta look at a lot of books and read a lot of books. A lot of hosts don't actually read them. I do. I respect authors as being an author myself, David Mamet's new book, the Disenlightenment, Politics, Horror and Entertainment. I couldn't love it more. It's really well written, which is nice for a book. Not all books are well written. It's very provocative, it's very thoughtful, it's very engaging. It's a romp through 42,000 different things but woven together. And if you're a writer or you love the craft of writing, it's. It's just a, it's like a, it's like source material for understanding the craft of how you weave something together. And I couldn't be more delighted to welcome David Mamet to next up. Mr. Mamet, welcome in.
- [27:18]
David Mamet
Oh yeah, thanks much. Nice, nice to be here. Thanks for having me on.
- [27:21]
Mark Halperin
Happy to have you here. I've watched a lot of your recent interviews on your book tour and I know most interviewers tend to suck up to you in a major way, fawn all over you. So my first question is how do you feel about that?
- [27:33]
David Mamet
I, I don't think I ever noticed it. I just, I guess I'm so stupid. I just think Kurt understood it as simple courtesy but perhaps you're right.
- [27:43]
Mark Halperin
Well, I don't know. They use words like legendary and greatest and, etc and I, I'm a huge fan of your work but I'm going to try to do this in a non gushy way just, just for my self respect. But as I made it clear, I made it clear I love your work.
- [27:57]
David Mamet
I appreciate. Listen, it's very, very difficult for any, any of us to be neutral around someone we respect. And if I am that to some people, I hope I can equip myself with some measure of graciousness. But if I sat down to dinner with Donald Trump, I'd probably start burbling and spill the soup all over myself.
- [28:26]
Mark Halperin
Or take a sip of the finger bowl. I want to ask you about some characters in the news and have you talk about them. They're real people, but talk to them about them as what kind of characters they are if you're going to fictionalize around them what kind of characters they are. What strikes you about them as distinctive people? And start with Benjamin Netanyahu. What kind of character is he to you?
- [28:48]
David Mamet
Well, I love him, you know, I'm crazy about him. I'm an American Jew. I've been to Israel many times, thank God literally that the state of Israel exists. My, my grandparents were immigrants and my parents grew up the first generation of Jews in this country and under that anti Semitism and, and my dad enlisted right after Pearl harbor and had to get a waiver from his mom because he was only 17 and he lived under that antisemitism in Jewish quotas. And now we're living under the new vicious recrudescence of physical anti Semitism throughout the world. And the state of Israel was incredibly important to me as a Jew and also as an American as they've been fighting our fight for many years and Netanyahu's the head of that country. And I know many people over in Israel who are a lot of the transported Americans who made aliyah, and some of them were NATO who loathe Netanyahu, and they can never explain to me why. And I understand there's a lot of this internecine frou frau and politics and so forth. Oh, he did this, he did that. You know, somebody once, once gave him a Cheshire cat and so forth. But he's been doing a spectacular job for his country. And it's a country being made of Jews like myself that are the Kilkenny cats. I mean, Jews are always arguing. You know, that's how we get along with each other. And he's been there longer than any other prime minister and. And God bless him.
- [30:32]
Mark Halperin
Does he have character traits that stand out to you as intriguing? Good, bad?
- [30:38]
David Mamet
Well, here's the thing that people talk in the movie business a lot about character traits, but as Aristotle told us, there's no such thing as character. All character is his habitual action. If we say someone, what do you know of his character? What do you know of her character? All that we really know in real life is what we've seen them do. Anything else is gossip. And we're all prone to gossip, especially about the. The great and the prominent. Right. So what do I know of his character? What I know of his character is he's bringing peace to the Middle east through strength, and he's standing up for the Jewish people. That's enough for me.
- [31:24]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, I meant character not in the sense of ethics or morality, but character in the sense of what kind of dramatic Persona he is. Like, is his sense of humor stand out for you or his. His treasure cat, you know, reticence? Like, what stands out for you as him as a character?
- [31:44]
David Mamet
He's a beautiful speaker. He speaks English beautifully, and he speaks it like. Like a real. Like. Like a statesman rather than a politician. You know, we got so used over here in the United States to understanding politicians of people who speak garbage and that we must. And we can, and we must come together, we must move forward, and all these which are either meaningless or tautological. So when someone comes along like President Trump and actually speaks English, like the guy at the rotor cooler, some people say on the left, wait a second. That's not a politician. That's not how a politician speak. And the same thing is true in my racket, which is theater and movies, is that we are. The Academy Awards are almost always given to people who are completely identifiable as acting. We can say, oh, my God, that's acting. I know what that looks like. That's acting because it looks like all the other acting that I've seen. But the real really great actors don't do that. And so a lot of times they're overlooked because they aren't doing acting. The perfect example is Henry Fonda, who is one maybe our greatest actor, film actor. He never got an Oscar. They gave him an Oscar at the end of his life. It was a lifetime achievement. The more it means thank you. Go get lost. But he was so, so generous that he looked like a human being. So he didn't look like an actor. And so that's.
- [33:16]
Mark Halperin
What do you consider his greatest performance?
- [33:19]
David Mamet
That's an excellent question. There are so many of them. The. I mean, for example, he did one of the great comic turns in the Lady Eve with Barbara Stanwyck or for Preston Sturgis. And then in. In the movie Fail Safe. It's one of the great scenes in movies. He plays President of the United States in Fail Safe, Sid Lumet's movie. And Larry Hagman plays the Russian interpreter. And they're sitting in a box set, basically three white walls and a table and a telephone. And the fate of the world hangs on their ability to communicate with the Russian prime minister because we've just inadvertently sent the nuclear bombers to Russia. And it's just the two of sitting at a table and any. I mean, it completely revamped my whole idea. But what a quote. Production values. Right? Because what are the production values in that scene? It's a white wall. Right. And it's two people doing their best in an impossible situation. Also crazy about him in young Mr. Lincoln and in Port Apache where he plays a villain.
- [34:36]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, I've seen three of those four. And he is pretty extraordinary. Just go back to Israel. What emotions have you experienced since the Israeli. Israeli attacks on Iran have commenced?
- [34:50]
David Mamet
Well, it's about effing time. You know, we. We started into down this whole terrible, terrible path a long, long time ago when Obama came into office and wanted to give Iran the store. And at the time, to anybody who would listen, would somebody explain to me, a deal means I get something and you get something. What is the American upside in this deal? And no one could do so. So it was just a complete sense of codependence among everybody I talked to saying, obviously there's something, oh, dimple, don't you understand? But all that I understood being rather these, them and those kind of guys is it was appeasement. Thank you so much. And appeasement. Never, ever works. Appeasement just in anything in life just. Just brings forward more aggression. So it's. It was good. It was going to have to happen at some time. It was just inevitable. And I thought I was talking to some guy the other day who's very close to President Trump, he's best friends with President Trump a long time. And we were sitting and talking. I said, what the hell's he doing in this is just before the 60 days were up. And I said, what the hell is he doing? I said, I don't get it. I don't get it. And he said, let me explain something to you. He said, president Trump doesn't know anything more about the situation than you, Dave, do, which I thought was stunning. Right? There's no secret sauce. We know what Iran is. We know what our capabilities are. We know what the political realities are. So he doesn't know any more than you do. What would you do? And I thought, and I thought for a long time, you know, if it's me in that chair, what would I do? And so what he did was something was, was like everything else he does. It was fricking brilliant. He said, 60 days and 61 days now, world, what are you going to do? P.S. while we got the 60 days, Israel is building up its capacity. And then he says, no, no, no, Israel. You go over there and you do all of that. We got your back, but we aren't going to become aggressive. But if xyz, then we will. It was real statesmanship, because the opposite of that is the Obama ism bluff and blunder. I'm going to draw a red line in the sand, and if you cross that, I'm going to draw another red line in the sand. And then I'm going to cross another red line in the sand, which was teaching the other guy that you ain't going to do nothing. So now the other guy realizes they're in a shitload of trouble and it's still up to them, because that's the only way to conduct foreign policy, which we've forgotten in the years since Vietnam. We got so traumatized by the horror and the idiocy of Vietnam that we've forgotten the old Roman adage, let them hate us so long as they fear us.
- [37:59]
Mark Halperin
Since the end of the Cold War, what do you consider to be the great successes of American foreign policy under any president.
- [38:09]
David Mamet
Since the end of the Cold War, the greatest successes of any foreign policy? I don't know. The only one that comes to mind at all is Trump. One and the Abraham Accords, which would have led to peace then and now Trump, too, and he's going to bring peace to the Middle east, which is extraordinary. I mean, it's, you know, they say mediocrity sees nothing higher than itself, but talent recognizes genius instantly. And what Trump has been doing right down the line is genius. He's not a bull in the china shop. He's a deep thinker, and he's playing global poker in the interest of my country. So that's the great success. And the world is. Because what is world opinion? It's a bunch of people in different countries whose administrations, whose governments were as corrupt as ours was. And his people are as confused as I am. Right. So there's got to be somebody in charge somewhere in the world, and I'm glad that it's President Trump and America.
- [39:20]
Mark Halperin
We're talking to the legendary writer, screenwriter, author, playwright, David Mamet about his new book, the Disenlightenment, which we'll get to in great detail. And just a bit. Do you find Pete Hegseth to be an interesting person?
- [39:39]
David Mamet
Yeah, I, I, Yes. I'm not. I, you know, it was as, as John Keegan said, it was not my fate to be a soldier. And as Dr. Johnson said, every man thinks more meanly of himself for not having been a soldier. So that's me. So Pete was a soldier. And as far as I can tell, he's doing a great job.
- [40:01]
Mark Halperin
But do you find him interesting?
- [40:03]
David Mamet
Interesting? I like them on tv. And other than that, he's been rather reticent. You know, I'm really not that interested in the personalities of people, because as soon as we turn a camera on them, or you or me, our personalities become, to a certain extent, confected legitimately. Right. So there's nothing, there's very little to see from my point of view. And what happens after you turn the camera on, but also, again, to recur, what I'm looking at is, what's the guy done?
- [40:34]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. So you think inevitably, anyone who goes on camera becomes different than their normal self.
- [40:41]
David Mamet
Of course. And we know that because what happens when people, people say, oh, can I take a picture of you? Right. We, everyone inevitably puts. Tightens up or loosens up or starts portraying themselves to the, to the smallest extent, but they all do it.
- [41:02]
Mark Halperin
Good.
- [41:04]
David Mamet
For example, you ever get your picture taken? Yes, we all have.
- [41:09]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [41:10]
David Mamet
What is, what is the, what does the camera, the cameraman say before he takes your picture?
- [41:16]
Mark Halperin
Your fly's undone?
- [41:19]
David Mamet
Well, I hope so. No, they always say, what do they say they count, right?
- [41:23]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. One, two, three. Say cheese.
- [41:26]
David Mamet
Yeah. Why do they count?
- [41:30]
Mark Halperin
Well, you could say they're counting. So you're not gonna have your eyes closed.
- [41:34]
David Mamet
Yeah. No, they count.
- [41:39]
Mark Halperin
To get the artifice cranked up.
- [41:42]
David Mamet
That's the effect. But the real reason they count as the wonderful cultural survival. Because what, you know. 18. 18. Yeah, because 100 years ago, the film was very, very slow, and you had to take a long exposure. So what would happen was you would open the camera lens and then you would count, meaning don't move during the time which I count. And then they would close the camera lens. So we're still saying that. So both. Both operations create a false view of the subject. In the first case, because the subject has to be immobile while we count three, two, one, boom, boom. And in the second case, because the culture. Because subconsciously we say three to one. Obviously, I'm supposed to do something. What is it? So we unconsciously put on our. I'm getting my picture took.
- [42:37]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. I find you to be on the optimistic side of how President Trump will do as you project forward. You just said you'll bring peace to the Middle east, for instance. Alternatively, I talked to a lot of very strong Trump supporters who are. Who are kind of worried. They're not sure how things like Ukraine, Russia, the Middle east, the economy, the tariffs will turn out. Is that because of your. Just your rigid and your rigorous analysis, or are you generally optimistic? Or what would you say separates you from those I talk to who are supporters of Trump but less optimistic?
- [43:12]
David Mamet
No, I'm not generally optimistic. You're crazy. I'm a Jew. The national model of a Jew is, thank God, I'm miserable. No. But what I'm seeing is actual results. What I'm seeing is actions taken which would rationally result in foreseen outcomes. Right. Rationally, we could say that forcing people to the bargaining table through tariffs is going to lower prices. Right. That may or may not be true. I happen to believe it is true. But it's a rational decision. Rather than we must be nice to people or we have to consider the blah, blah or just ongoing. What about inflation and the honor of the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? Because you can always. There's always, and they say for every argument, rationally, moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem would result in sending a message to the world to say the United States is behind Israel's back. Right. To say otherwise is irrational because there's no. There's no rational motive for keeping it in. Keeping the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv. Other than appeasement. Right. The jcpoa, there's no rational. The intended goal. It's irrational to say you're going to bring about the intended goal of a nuclear Iran by kissing their ass and throwing money at them and not enforcing the sanctions. That's not going to happen. We can intuit a different objective on the part of Obama. Right. But actually bringing peace to the world was not one of them.
- [45:03]
Mark Halperin
Well, he thought that. He thought the agreement would. Was the best available option to slow the growth of their nuclear program. I know you don't agree, but that's, that's what he thought.
- [45:12]
David Mamet
Well, he thought that that was the. Perhaps he didn't. Perhaps he didn't. But being a regular guy, you know, and an ex cab driver, I got to say I have to, I'm going to determine his intent from his actions, which was appeasement. So I would say, why? Why? As a rational guy. Right. I know if you pay this, you get that. That's the way the world works. What's he actually doing? What he's actually doing is appeasing the people who he likes in his sphere of the world, which are the Islamists.
- [45:50]
Mark Halperin
All right, last question, I think before we go to break.
- [45:53]
David Mamet
Who.
- [45:54]
Mark Halperin
If you were in charge of the Chicago hall of Fame, who would your first three inductees be, living or dead?
- [46:02]
David Mamet
My first inductee would be Lord Buckley. Lord Buckley was a stand up comic, I guess, before the world existed. He was the court jester of the Al Capone mob in the south side. And he was absolute, absolute genius. And he made Capone laugh. And you can still hear him on records. And when I was growing up, they played his records all the time in WFMT in Chicago. And then I believe the second one would be Victor Count Lustig. Victor Count Lustig was a great con man. He's a European of some sort of. And he sold the Eiffel Tower twice to two different people. And he did one of the greatest cons in American history. He went to Al Capone. Al Capone knew Victor, he knew he was a criminal. And he said, Mr. Capone, I got a scheme which is going to double your money in six months. He says, you give me $30,000 today and in six months I'll give you $60,000. So Capone, knowing that Victor Lustig knew the downside of that deal, gave him $30,000. Six months later, Lustig comes back and says, Mr. Capone, I'm devastated the deal didn't work out. Here's your $30,000 back by which he gained Al Capone's complete trust. Right. And he became and he got a license to practice his con game. So that would be Victor Count Lustig. I think I would also put Mayor Daly the first in because he did something brilliant. Richard J. Daly, he built this huge, huge boondoggle convention center on the lake called McCormick Place. And it was, I think it was the first in the world of its kind. It was like a huge concrete battleship, Right. A building on the lake. And the overrun was like the usual seven times the low estimate. Right. And everybody got rich and everybody's uncle got rich and blah, blah, blah. And then he burned it down. So he had to build it again.
- [48:25]
Mark Halperin
So those three, those are three good choices. I'm going to check with the Pope and Ernie Banks and see when they're getting in.
- [48:31]
David Mamet
Oh, yeah.
- [48:31]
Mark Halperin
All right. We're going to take a break. Come back. We're going to talk to David Mamet about his new book and his new movie. That's next up. This month, Tax Network USA proudly celebrates our nation's birthday, honoring freedom, resilience and financial independence. So to mark the occasion, there are now offering 10% off all services through July 4th. If you're dealing with back taxes or missed the April 15th deadline, don't wait. The IRS is rapidly stepping up enforcements. Penalties can add up very quickly. It can be up to 5% per month, maxing out at 25% of your total tax bill just for not filing. And that's on top of what you already owe. Here's the good news, though. Tax Network USA can still help you if you turn things around. Whether you're self employed, run a business or your books are just a complete mess, their team knows how to cut through the cash and find solutions that will work. Your consultation there is always free. And getting ahead of the problem now could help you avoid harsh penalties, wage garnishments or surprise bank levies. So take the first step. Call 800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com NextUp. And don't forget, you'll get 10% off all their services through July 4th as part of their celebration of our Nathan Nation's birthday. Regain control of your finances now with the expert help of the good folks at Tax Network usa. All right, next up, more with my guest, David Mamet, the legendary writer of plays and movies and books, including the Disenlightment, Politics, Horror and entertainment. His new book as well as a new film, we're going to talk about them both. But I want to show David and everybody a clip of you from decades ago in a role that not everybody's seen you in, which is director, but.
- [50:26]
David Mamet
That'S the most important thing. Don't make it easier for the other person, you know what I'm saying? Don't make, don't narrate your behavior for the other person that's there. We have to be absolutely vicious in the. In getting our objectives in these plays right? Because that's the only thing which is going to bring you to life. The thing which will easiest destroy the plays is mood, is thinking rather than what must I do thinking, what are we feeling? You know what I'm saying? Good. What's he doing?
- [50:49]
Mark Halperin
He's listening very carefully to me. Yes.
- [50:51]
David Mamet
And now what did he start doing? A little thing about being an actor there for just one second. I don't know what you mean.
- [50:57]
Mark Halperin
Okay, good, good.
- [50:58]
David Mamet
What's she doing now?
- [50:59]
Mark Halperin
She's.
- [51:00]
David Mamet
She's responding. She's responding with that kind of nervous laugh. What's happening in him? He's enjoying himself. How do you feel about that? I feel very good about it. Okay, now what's happening in her?
- [51:11]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, she's. She's releasing herself now and she's. She's bouncing with me with something that's going on between us. Very good.
- [51:18]
David Mamet
You're getting tired of grinning. Yes, I just. Okay, wonderful. Good.
- [51:22]
Mark Halperin
Very good. All right, first of all, do you remember that?
- [51:26]
David Mamet
No, I don't. What a good looking young guy, huh?
- [51:29]
Mark Halperin
Very handsome. Yeah. Haven't aged a bit, but you're very handsome. I'm so fascinated after reading the book at your just general craft. I've been a fan of your work, but I've never really thought about your craft. And what. Just explain what you take away from. From watching you do what you do. What, like what were you doing there and how does that reflect your attitude towards art?
- [51:52]
David Mamet
I was very, very fortunate as a young guy. I had worked at several colleges teaching acting and I studied acting in New York and had no idea what they were talking about. But because I was a teacher, I had my own hi, baby. I had my own laboratory so I could work for six, eight hours a day with these actors. And rather than trying to tell them what I thought was a good idea to take the top down kind of actor studio approach of trying to inject an uber theory on them, I was looking at what they were doing. Say, what are they actually doing? What's actually happening when you put two actors on stage and trying to Go from there to a theory of how to talk. Talk to actors to get the best result that I wanted on the stage. That result being an unfettered. A connection between the actor, the script and the audience. That is to say, one unfettered by preconceptions. Because if you look at those people over there, they're very alive, right? They're very alive because they're actually reacting to what the other guy is doing, rather than. What most actors do is they work it up in the mirror. Right. And some of them do it funny voices, but the modern ones call it understanding the character, which is just the same thing. There isn't any character.
- [53:11]
Mark Halperin
My reaction to that many reactions to the clip, but one is you seem to be scaring the crap out of them.
- [53:18]
David Mamet
That's good because that's. Oh, I have a dog here. Part of the problem with actors is the impulse. No, this is not right. No, this is not right. I worked it up and this doesn't. This is not right. A pitch. Your pitch. Would you ask Erica, get me a decaf. The impulse which they think is coming from their inability or from the lack of the script to conform to their actual feelings is actually coming from playing the script with the other person. That's where the actual feeling comes from. I don't know. I'm not getting. Because if you think about it, if every actor is saying it, every scene, I am getting exactly what I want from the other person. There's no scene. Right, Right. So acting moment to moment is really. Is recasting your objective in the face of failure.
- [54:18]
Mark Halperin
All right, let's talk about the disenlightenment. People ask me because I tell them it's a great book. They say, what's it about? And I say, it's about. About a thousand different things. One of the things I think it's about is a brief history of Trump Derangement Syndrome. So I don't know if you'd accept that. Tell the story as. As it's woven in the book. What is the history of Trump derangement? Synd. When did it start? What impact has it had on America?
- [54:41]
David Mamet
Well, it started. It's the same thing. He came down the escalator and a lot of people said, wait a second, that's not. That's not a. That's not a president. Right. He doesn't say, we must and we can and we shall. You know, he hasn't spent his whole life thieving from us and lying to us and scheming in politics and put, you know, putting Money in his back pocket. He's not. He's not a thief. I don't get it. Where's the people? Where's the guy who lies to us? He doesn't look like a president. And we see the. The actual end of that one stage of the Trump. Trump derangement syndrome when he's trying to get into office. And who is opposed to him are two of the biggest buffoons in the history of the human race. Well, Waltz and Kamala Harris. P.S. joe Biden, Kamala Harris is what she is. And Waltz is a gormless buffoon. But they once in a while have the capacity to dig deep and give us what we're used to getting, which is America must go forward or the future starts now. Or all of these tautologies, right? And somebody said the worth of a tautology is that it masks a hidden agenda, right? Somebody says, the future starts now. Well, when did we expect the future starting, like three years from Shabuis, right, On VJ Day. We know the future starts now. But if somebody says that, we intuit the hidden. They have a hidden agenda, which is the saying, shut the fuck up. You can trust me because I sound like a politician. So the tautology short circuits a natural human and correct distrust of all politicians. Because anytime anyone ever had to deal with a politician or an elected official, he came away weeping. We know that. Right? Anytime you get a letter in the mailbox from any government that you didn't expect, what's your first reaction? You know what it is? It's fear. Oh, my God, what do they want from me now? Right? So. But now someone says, no, no, no, we must, we can, we shall say, oh, I get it. We're going to play that game again. Okay. I can. Yeah. The future does start now. Yeah. We are the change we've waited for. Yeah.
- [57:21]
Mark Halperin
I'm gonna. I'm gonna read you some blurbs about your book that are on the jacket. And you tell me True. Mostly true. False. Mostly false. Ready? Here we go.
- [57:30]
David Mamet
Okay.
- [57:31]
Mark Halperin
Mark Levin. David Mamet is a fantastic writer.
- [57:35]
David Mamet
Yeah, I'm a very good writer.
- [57:37]
Mark Halperin
True. Okay, good. This is Megyn Kelly. David Mamet always delivers something creative that makes you stop and reflect.
- [57:44]
David Mamet
Well, that's a compliment, and it's a great compliment.
- [57:47]
Mark Halperin
But is it true?
- [57:49]
David Mamet
Well, it's true for her. It's not for me to say what affect my work, so.
- [57:54]
Mark Halperin
All right. Ben Shapiro. David Mamet is America's greatest living playwright and screenwriter.
- [58:01]
David Mamet
Well, I don't know who's still alive.
- [58:03]
Mark Halperin
All right, who else is great. Who might be alive.
- [58:06]
David Mamet
I don't know. That's not my job.
- [58:09]
Mark Halperin
Who's great? You forget. You tell me who else is great. Who else is a great screenwriter and playwright in America?
- [58:15]
David Mamet
I think Charlie Kaufman is a. Is a great screenwriter and director. I think Paul Thomas Anderson is a great, great screenwriter and director. I mean, Francis just did another movie. I haven't seen it, but he's a genius. There's all kinds of people out there.
- [58:29]
Mark Halperin
All right, that's a good list.
- [58:31]
David Mamet
I'm. I'm gonna forget. I'm gonna forget some people and feel very bad, but there. Of course, there are others out there.
- [58:37]
Mark Halperin
All right. Yeah, I. I may have missed it, but. Any women on the list?
- [58:41]
David Mamet
Yeah, Catherine Biglow. She's a terrific screenwriter and director. Yes, of course there are. I just saw that the movie is just a few years old, called the Headless Woman by that Argentinian woman who's a spectacular director.
- [58:55]
Mark Halperin
All right, tell me how you put the book together. It's a series of short essays. Is that. Did you consider. Did you execute it the way you originally conceived it, or did your plan evolve over time?
- [59:06]
David Mamet
Well, that's a very good question. I. You know, I got up. I was hoping. It was a horrible, horrible pork portion of our life for several reasons. Not because it was inconvenient and it's because it was dangerous, but because it was. If you took one half step back, it was the usurpation by government of something which was way beyond their powers and anytime. Like, just for example, if you give a dog a table scrap, that dog will beg for the rest of its life. That's it. You're done. So if the politicians and the government in power sees that it can so control the populace as they did during COVID they're going to escalate, right? Not only must you get this shot, you can't go to Churchill with the porn stars. Porn places are open. And if you don't get the shot, we're going to drive you out of the business. And if you're a doctor who suggests alternative therapies, you're going to lose your license. And on and on and on and on and on. So then, oh, yeah, guess what? You have to make sure that you have drag shows in the school and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So what happens is that politicians who are Menkin said they're a bunch of thieves, but I don't think that's. That's. It's not a complete definition. They're a bunch of thieves and boys and thugs will do it with the exception of maga. So MAGA comes in, you know, which starts out in the. A bunch of housewives in suburban Chicago say, that's it. Now are they crazy? They start the Tea Party, you know, and, and Rush Limbo comes in and now we have Mark Levin and radio and Fox News and blah, blah, blah. But a bunch of actual human beings who happen to be Americans who said, that's enough now, it's got to stop. And those people are great, great heroes. Because I would have said, you know, lord, let it last out my time, you know, or I'll move to a cabin and cabin in the pines because I can't take it anymore.
- [61:07]
Mark Halperin
You're pedaling a book, but you're also got a new movie. Tell folks what that is and where they can see it.
- [61:12]
David Mamet
Ah, very good. I did a movie with Shia LaBeouf, just came out. It's called Henry Johnson. And it's a story about a guy who starts out as a, well, a well placed, very wealthy executive in some business or other. He does a favor for a friend who went to jail. And then he, in order to help his friend get out, he embezzles money from his company to buy a high priced defense for his friend. He ends up going to jail. He ends up getting taken, taken in by Shia LaBeouf, who's the boss con. And they end up involved in a shootout, in a jailbreak. And it's, it's a lot of fun. It's called Henry Johnson and it could be found@henryjohnsonmovie.com Henry johnsonmovie.com available now.
- [62:01]
Mark Halperin
Are you, are you a fan of reality TV shows?
- [62:08]
David Mamet
No. Curiously, you know, the first television generation, you know, when I was a kid, we had a little television, dumont television. The screen was the size of an iPhone, right? And it was fuzzy and blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden we're looking at this new drug all the time, all the time. And because they hadn't figured it out, what you saw at the beginning, because it could be done cheaply and because it could be done simply, were in effect reality shows and quiz shows, right? There was a show called Queen for a Day. I don't think you're old enough to remember that when they took a bunch of old ladies on and you know, then they would weep and one would say, weep, weep, weep. My child's a criminal, my husband left me and my daughter's a whore. And the next one would say, weep, weep, weep. I got my leg chopped off by A weed whacker and I'm dying of ba ba Bob and da da da. And they would all tell their stories and whichever one got the most weeping applause got a refrigerator. So that was called Queen for a Day. And then there was another one and there was Ted Mack's Amateur Hour which the other thing was talent shows because they're cheap, they don't cost anything, everyone will give you their talent. Anyone who wants to be on a talent show would give you the talent for free and go to bed with you because they want to be Miss America. So now what we see is that coming. Duh. Cycling back in, right? Reality shows and talent shows. And I was, I wrote something for CBS years and years ago, really good show called Westwood or something like that. It was about a small town in Vermont and it was a really good show and I lived many years in a small town, Vermont. I really liked it. William H. Macy was going to play the guy and they were going to put it on after a new show called Survivor, right, which is just coming on. But in an attempt to forge a better race relationship with cbs they lied to me and so I told them to go fuck themselves and apparently they, they took it rather personally. But had I not told them to go fuck themselves, I probably at this point would be the owner of a small Caribbean in Ireland and so forth.
- [64:24]
Mark Halperin
I have it on good authority you're not the first nor last person to say that to cbs. So you're in good company. The book by David Mamet's called the Enlightenment, the Disenlightenment, Politics, Horror and Entertainment. David, Ernie, Ernie Banks and I are going to have dinner in Chicago next week. Get stakes and talk it through. David, grateful to you for being on. Congratulations on the book and the movie. Delighted to have you back.
- [64:47]
David Mamet
Thank you so much. It's pleasure talking to you. Bye bye.
- [64:49]
Mark Halperin
Thank you. All right, that's it for next up this week. Grateful to you for being here. Another episode will drop Thursday so join us then and as always Please like subscribe etc. Etc. Etc. Love having you part of this community. We're still working on the name for the community and we should have it soon and it might be next up nation. I'll, I'll spoil that. It might be that. So react to that because we're settling in. Thank you again for watching. Thanks to David Mamet and we'll see you soon.