← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
What Dr. Fauci's Diary Reveals About Who He Really Is
01:03:07
Mark Halperin's reported monologue examines the newly revealed diary entries from Dr. Anthony Fauci, exploring his desperate need for celebrity and how the Dominant Media protected him — and, with echoes of the Biden mental acuity press scandal, continues to coddle and champion him to this very day. Then, Larry O'Connor and Kevin Walling join Mark to break down the biggest political stories shaping the 2026 midterms, the overlooked campaigns that could swing the balance of power, and JD Vance's presidential prospects. Plus, the Mark dives into two under-the-radar factors that could create major challenges for Democrats heading into the next presidential race. Sewer Sentry Environmental Technologies: See how smart tech protects both the environment and your budget at https://www.sewersentry.com Chapter: For free and unbiased Medicare help, dial (262) 454-0503 to speak with my trusted partner, Chapter. *Paid Partnership*” Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endors...
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Welcome in everybody. I'm Mark Calperin. This is Next Stop with Mark Halperin. I'm editor in chief for the live interactive video platform 2way and your host here to everything. Next up. Glad you're here. I'm fired up about the monologue, which I'll bring you in just a minute. It's about Dr. Fauci. And then after that, joining us, my friends, my co host from the morning meeting on two Way, Larry o' Connor and Kevin Walter Walling will be here. We gather every Monday through Friday at 9am Eastern time on the two way platform and on YouTube and then at 10 on on Sirius XM. Looking forward to talking to them about the midterms and about what you know to be one of my great interests, which is how do people see JD Vance? We ask the non musical question, is JD Vance the most politically talented vice president of the modern era? Looking forward to that. But first, my reported monologue on Anthony Fauci. Because a lot of what you're seeing as attacks on me, quite frankly, are attacks on science because all of the things that I have spoken about consistently from the very beginning have been fundamentally based on science. Sometimes those things were inconvenient truths for people and there was pushback against me. So if you are trying to, you know, get at me as a public health official and a scientist, you're really attacking not only Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're attacking science. His newly revealed diary entries from this week and a prelude to a hearing on Wednesday on Capitol Hill, what those diary entries reveal to us about Foushee and about this situation he finds himself in as he prepares to go back to Capitol Hill and to testify in front of Senator Rand Paul, who he has tangled with before. Rand Paul is a doctor and Rand Paul has a pretty strong set of beliefs about how Dr. Fauci has performed over the years. A lot of people are casting this hearing as Rand Paul versus Dr. Fauci. And and make no mistake, Rand Paul has teed this hearing up. Here's a here's something he posted on X on A1 please for previewing the hearing from Rand Paul. It's a picture of Dr. Fauci on InStyle in InStyle magazine. And we'll get to the celebrity Fauci in a moment. See you in two days. And Rand Paul knows how to run a hearing. A very smart guy, very organized and as I said, he's got a pretty strong point of view about this hearing. Now again, you can cast this as Rand Paul versus Dr. Fauci, but there's a lot going on here. Covid is such a big and unexplored topic. Amazing to have an unexplored topic that's one of the most significant topics in American history. And Dr. Fauci's role and how he's performed and what he said is also undercovered. This is going to be a hearing to some extent about science, what was known in the United States about public health decisions related to the pandemic. It's going to be a hearing also about how the government performed in trying to understand if we have another pandemic to deal with some extent. It's also going to be hearing about China, how the US Interacted with China before, during and after the pandemic. It's also, though, definitely going to be hearing about Dr. Fauci and celebrity. It's not really just about one doctor. Right. And his what's revealed on these diaries, but it's also going to be about COVID Okay, so undercovered, how. How Fauci dealt with COVID how the government dealt with COVID first with Donald Trump, then with Joe Biden, but also how America dealt with it. And it's also going to be a hearing about this guy. It is going to be hearing about Dr. Fauci. Look, Dr. Fauci is someone I've known and covered my whole career. I grew up in the Washington, D.C. area. He's been. He's been involved in the government for nearly 40 years. More. 1 of the longest tenured people in Washington at senior levels of government alive today. Advisor to seven presidents dealing with major public health crises in these country, in this country, probably most prominently dealing with HIV aids. Before the COVID situation, he dealt with Ebola, he dealt with sars, he dealt with Zika. And he has been a hero inside Washington culture, inside the executive branch, inside Congress, and in the public health world for my whole career, my whole life. Got the Medal of Freedom. And pretty much every president who Dr. Fauci has served with has said nice things about him. Here is some of the presidents who said nice things about Dr. Fauci over the years. S10, please. Well, thanks. One of the great public health officials, a true hero who we've led this fight against HIV AIDS, Dr. Anthony Fauci. Tell Tony Fauci I said, why don't you move to New York, run against aoc. You will win easily. For his determined and aggressive efforts to help others live longer and healthier lives, I'm proud to award the Presidential Medal of freedom to Dr. Anthony S. Fauci
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was one of the people who was at the front lines of dealing with
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HIV aids, one of the world's leading
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experts on infectious disease.
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I think a Dr. Fauci probably never heard of him. Well, you did. Anne heard him. He's a very fine research top doctor at National Institute of Health. It's unusual. Try to go. Try to find people publicly praised at that level of. Of praise by presidents over that period of time. You won't find many. I'm. I've been trying to think about it. I don't know that you'd find any being praised by, from. From George W. H.W. bush through Donald Trump and Joe Biden, kind of an incredible record. But as, as H.W. bush there suggested he was Washington famous before COVID He was famous in the public health world. He was not nationally famous. He could have walked down any main street in America. People wouldn't have recognized him. I knew him back when I was dabbled in Washington insider Dom. But then came Covid. And Covid made him not just Washington famous, but famous famous. And it started with my colleagues in the media who as Covid occurred and he had a very prominent role briefing at the White House and advising President Trump. They treated him like he was America's doctor. They treat him like the Norman Schwarzkopf of the COVID crisis and. And was. Was welcomed onto news programs like he was a hero. I could show you 100 of these, but here's just some of news personalities fawning over Dr. Fauci. S. One, please. You've done so much for this country in terms of this crisis, so I really appreciate your insight. You are seen to many as a superhero.
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First of all, thank you for your service.
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Dr. Fauci.
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I know you've been working tirelessly for
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so many months now, and we really do thank you. Who better to give us answers that we can trust than Dr. Anthony Fauci? He's the country's top expert on infectious diseases and, and has served as scientific adviser for every president since Ronald Reagan. Straight to Dr. Anthony Fauci. We are lucky to have you back on Primetime tonight. Thank you for what you're doing, the
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time, the energy, the effort that you're putting in.
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Thank you for your 37 years of
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service, I believe to seven presidents. And thank you for your work over the past year.
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Now, let's say Dr. Fauci had been flawless in this role. Say he had made no bad decisions. All he did, every decision he made, every public utterance was perfect. And, and and helped us deal with the pandemic at. At a lowest cost possible. Even then, I would say that level of fawning by journalists is not appropriate because. Because he's a public official with a lot of responsibility. Our job is to hold them accountable. But as you saw, it was all just funny. And that was across the board. You had, he had more liberal journalists, you had Laura Ingram. People really respected the guy. And he had years of experience doing this. I want to show you one clip early in his career, just to give you an idea of the range of Dr. Fauci's career. This is one of the earlier clips we could find of him. This is Dr. Fauci. S9. Please, can you give any kind of an educated guess about how long it might be before some kind of cure? Again, it's very difficult to do that. I can tell you that there are some agents that clearly have been shown to suppress the replication of the virus. This is a very unique virus because even if you block its ability to replicate, it also has the unique ability to hide or live within the cells, such that you might suppress its multiplication, but you might not ever be able to completely rid the body of the virus unless perhaps the body's own defenses come in and do that. So that's the guy in 1985 on the NewsHour on PBS. And, and, and that's the kind of performance, the kind of attitude he had all the way through Covid. And then we get to Covid. And because of his prominence in the briefings with the President, President Trump, and because of the country's panic and, and, and horror of trying to deal with an unprecedented public health crisis, all of a sudden, the guy goes from dealing with news anchors. Pretty heady for a public health bureaucrat, to dealing with celebrities. And again, we could show you a Fauci with a million celebrities. We tried to choose ones that everybody would recognize. And you will recognize these people. Here's Tony Fauci going from the PBS stage to pretty much the world's biggest celebrities fawning over him. S2.
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Please, please welcome to the show Dr. Anthony Fauci.
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One, the only Dr. Anthony Fauci is here.
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Guest has advised seven U.S. presidents of the coolest man on the planet. And here's Dr. Anthony Fauci.
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Well, I love you. I think you are a godsend.
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You've been amazing. I could talk to you for an hour on this, but I know everyone wants your time. Are you nervous to give Anthony Fauci a shot? It's Anthony Fauci.
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Are you nervous?
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That's like pouring a drink for Jack Daniels. You truly have emerged as a personal hero for me and to the real Dr. Fauci, thank you for your calm and your clarity in this unnerving time. Now, in those clips, he seems to be handling it well. What's freaked people out, at least some people, is the diaries. A typewritten diary that he kept, obtained by Senator Paul and released this week that shows him obsessed with his celebrity. Okay? He threw out the first pitch at a baseball game. There were candles, there were bobbleheads, there were magazine covers. Okay? Somewhere along the way, America's doctor became a celebrity. America's celebrity. And if he'd use that for good, if he'd taken the platform he was given to simply spread the word and he hadn't made mistakes, it would have been a good use of celebrity. But this is why this hearing is different. In addition to the question Senator Paul and his colleagues are going to examine, did Fauci help fund gain of function research which he's been squirrely about? Did he disregard indications or evidence that the virus came from a lab by Chinese lab, rather than organically from an animal? Did he give bad advice? Not based on the science about masks and distancing and washing our groceries. These are all serious questions that will be addressed. But hovering it over will be striking. From the diary of this guy just being way too into the fame and, and there's hundreds of pages and they're filled with this stuff of Fauci being so excited about the attention, about all the ways in which he was feted, being invited on TV shows, people asking for selfies. The. The language in these things is, is it just. It's extraordinary the things he wrote. Here he is explaining a six. Barbra Streisand calls him up and he says, I had a great call with Barbara Strand. She called my cell at 6:05pm she's recently had talks about her health issues. She wanted to know if it was okay to get the MRNA vaccine. I told her yes. We then started discussing life in general. I told her that I work listening to her songs on Alexa. She really did not know what Alexa was. I accidentally butt dialed her later in the evening and she said she was going to call me anyway since she wanted to know if there was any difference between the Moderna and Fitzer product, Pfizer product. I told her none. I then explained to her more about Alexa. I bought, brought the phone over to Alexa and asked to play songs by Barbara Streisand. When the Song came on loud and clear. She started laughing and absolutely loved it, exclamation point. The diaries are filled with things like this. They just filled with them. Here he is writing about going to a book party. A 7. I went to a book party last night for Jonathan Carl's new book about Trump. It took place at Cafe Milano. The place was incredibly crowded, and as I almost forced to take my mask off two thirds of the time I was there, since they were serving drinks and people were talking about taking selfies, I was totally swamped all night by people wanting to say hello, shake my hands, and take pictures with me. I could not get away from. It goes on. And again, I could read you 100 of these. Fauci was obsessed with the celebrity. He was also obsessed with being on TV and would regularly complain in his diary that he was kept from being on certain programs because of. He's. He seems to suggest jealousy on the part of his colleagues. And, and, and they being kept off the television for him was like they were trying to drown him and kill him underwater. Here he is telling 60 Minutes on the record, not in his private diary about being kept off of television. S7, please.
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Has the white House been controlling when
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you can speak with the media? You know, I think you'd have to be honest to say yes. I certainly have not been allowed to go on many, many, many shows that have asked for me, one of the most trusted voices in America. And yet you're not there. You're not allowed to talk with us. So can you understand the frustration that maybe there's been a restriction on the flow of information, on transparency? You know, I think there has been a restriction, John, but it doesn't. It isn't consistent. The coverage since the diaries have come out in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal have mentioned his interest in celebrity, but they've downplayed it. They've made it a lot about his disagreements with Donald Trump. Okay, the diaries don't have criminal admissions in there. This is not Watergate when it comes to his celebrity. But what's so interesting is if, if, if this were about someone who wasn't as beloved by the media as Fauci is. These diary entries, the guy's supposed to be running the response to the largest public health crisis in modern American history. He shouldn't be spending 20 seconds chronicling his time with Julia Roberts. And yet he is. And he's doing it in a way that I just. Every time I read one of these entries, I sort of can't believe it. And what I also can't believe, although I can, is my colleagues in the media not writing about this like it is a scandal. And again, this is separate from gain of function research. It's separate from how he talked about the science. It's separate from the policy decisions he made about masking, et cetera, and closing schools. It's separate about the questions of whether he committed a crime by saying something false to Congress. Brian Stelter, the media critic for cnn, never misses an opportunity to protect liberals. Never misses an opportunity to not do his job. This, this media story is incredible because in addition to fawning over the press, Fauci writes in his diary about hanging out with reporters, including Brian Selter's colleague Jake Tapper, about how close they were. Says they're becoming friends with Jake Tapper, about Tapper then interviewing a guy who he says he's friends with. He says Tapper trash Trump to him. Don't know if that's true or not, but he writes it in his diary. So Brian Stelter, in writing about the diary, instead of saying there's a massive press story here about the relationship between this guy and the media and how he was covered and now US Senators raising questions about it, here's what Brian Stelter writes. While MAGA Media ridicules Fauci's quote, unquote, obsession with fame, the diary entries read more like someone documenting the objectively wild speed at which a government immunologist inevitably became internationally famous. This is such an outrageous sentence. You put it back up, please. It's such an outrageous sentence. MAGA media ridicules Fauci's quote, unquote obsession with fame. Fauci. You don't need the quotes, ladies and gentlemen, and they're not, and they are ridiculing it. But the story. If I were a media critic, my story would be this guy's relationship with the media allowed him to get away with behavior that a United States investigative senator says was outrageous and potentially in violation of the law. And it does not read like someone documenting the objectively wild speed. It did happen at a wild speed, but he's not documenting it. He is luxuriating in a level of fame that I still can't fathom he did. And I gotta say, I don't, I don't typically like to put the media's failures in, in sharp relief by saying hypothetical, but sometimes I have to. This is happening at the same time that there's new audio of Joe Biden showing that way back well before he Ran for president the first time he had cognitive decline in the context of taking classified information from the White House. It's exact parallel to the. The media attempted to cover up Joe Biden's mental acuity decline. They failed because it was so obvious. In this case, they're still attempting to hold Dr. Fauci blameless for the errors he made and allegedly made some. He made some. We'll see. By continuing to fawn over him, by continuing to hold him blameless for what he did. Imagine, say, a Democratic senator released hundreds of pages of Stephen Miller's diaries, okay? And imagine in those diaries, it's not Anthony Fauci, it's Stephen Miller. And he spends pages discussing what television shows he's on, what celebrity admirers he has, what parties he was invited to, calls from people in Hollywood, frustration that he's not getting enough TV airtime. Imagine if Stephen Miller wrote in his diary about all that stuff at a time when he's overseeing a major crisis in modern America. What would the. How would the media cover that the minute those diaries were released, there would be so many questions about the appropriateness of it, and instead, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, they. They mention some of this stuff, but it's not cast as the narcissism, the ego, the attention seeking, the celebrity obsession, the misplaced priorities, and truly an abuse of public office that Dr. Fauci engaged in. The conservative media is doing it. I'm doing it because I'm an objective reporter. I asked a bunch of Democrats in reporting for this monologue, why do you still defend Fauci?
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Why don't.
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Why don't Democrats look at these diaries and say, what a horror show this is, okay? Their view is he's a career public servant, extraordinary scientific credentials, working long hours and side by side, first with Donald Trump and then with Joe Biden. He guided America through an unprecedented crisis, getting death threats, okay? Many, Many of the Democrats I talked to said he's become a political punching bag because he stood up to Donald Trump. And he did have differences with Donald Trump. But one of those big differences was about whether to be optimistic or not. That's the one he seemed to have a lot of friction with Trump about. Now, Joe Biden pardoned him. So this hearing, unless they can overturn the pardon somehow by proving that the president alleges that the pardon was illegal, he's not going to go to prison for any of this stuff, okay? But the. The degree to which all these issues just. Gain of function, research, disregarding Information about the origins of it, holding China, seeming to want to hold China blameless as long as he possibly could. Telling states and cities to close down schools, talking about masking in a way that turned out not to be supported by the science. All of that is going to come up. Republicans see in this guy not a hero the way the Democrats do. They see an unelected bureaucrat who had accumulated enormous influence and resisted accountability, and then to this day, to this very day, defended by the media. Okay, I have to say, a lot of people asked me this week as I was talking to Republicans about it, why didn't Donald Trump fire him? According to a senior official who worked in the Trump administration during this time, they were worried that if they fired him, they would alienate independent voters to the presidential and that Fauci would become kind of like James Comey, became an outside critic the media loved, who would have a huge megaphone to say Trump was screwing up the pandemic. Okay, this moment for the press is an opportunity to make up for coddling him. Fauci, for so many years, talk to people, go back to aids, talk to people about aids. It was the same thing. He was obsessed with getting credit. He was obsessed with going on TV. I have nothing against Dr. Fauci. My dealings with him over the years have been very pleasant. He's a. He's a. He's by all accounts, a very nice guy. But he has now demonstrated a history of not only seeking fame, but of questionable public policy decisions. The question of the lab leak, the question of masking vaccines, lockdowns, none of that's going to be settled in this hearing tomorrow. Tomorrow. But what is going to be at issue is the question of whether the press will finally join in and treat Republican investigators the way they would Democrats. This will be a media circus. It's. It's going to. It's going to put people in the red and blue buckets in a lot of ways. But Anthony Fauci, now, as he was during COVID has become far more than America's top infectious disease expert. He's become a symbol now. And right now, it's up to the media to decide are they going to continue to coddle him, or are they going to pay attention to what comes out in this hearing and get accountability not just for Anthony Fauci, but are they going to get accountability for the public health crisis we went through, where there are very reasonable questions, very important questions to be asked about how he made decisions, how did he make decisions about gang of gain of function, research? How did he make decisions about what to do, about explaining the origins of the virus and holding China accountable? How did he make decisions about masking it, about school closures, etc. All of that doesn't mean he has to be a villain, although for many he already is. But all of that needs to be explored, and the onus is on the media to stop coddling him and treating him like the celebrity he loves to be treated as, and treat him as someone who was given extraordinary responsibility, extraordinary authority, and spend at least part of that time reveling in being on the phone with Cher and on a zoom with Julia Roberts. I'm looking forward to the hearings, and we'll have more to say about it here. All right, let me know what you think about all this. If you love or hate Foushee, if you can explain why my colleagues in the media love to coddle Foushee, besides the fact that he eventually opposed Donald Trump because they've been coddling him for years, email me your thoughts on what I've reported to you today at Next up atdevil may caremedia.com that's nextupevilmacaremedia.com and I'll read them all. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, my colleagues from Two Ways. The morning meeting will be here. 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And Kevin's Democratic strategist and they join me every Monday through Friday, three of us, 9am on the two way platform on YouTube and then of course on Sirius XM at 10 o'. Clock. Gentlemen, let's talk midterms. I was talking yesterday to one of the smartest Republican strategists I know and he said he thinks Democrats will pick up about 12 House seats and three Senate seats, which would give them the House majority and not the Senate. And then I said, what about having a billion dollar cash, an unprecedented billion dollar cash advantage and a very clean message that you hear from almost every Republican, including the president. The other side are crazy commies. So Larry, if that's do you think that's the right framing? On the one side you've got history and the president's approval rating and then the other side, a huge cash advantage
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and a theme I'm curious what Karl Rove's response to you was.
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Wasn't Carl Rove, but stop guessing because you get it before too long.
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MIKE murphy, MY no, I think you're absolutely right. And I think if you in a way, a lot of the Democrat socialist members who have won some of these primaries, even though it's not going to affect the outcome because they're only winning in deep blue districts, it was a gift to Republicans because for some of those close districts where it maybe is a coin toss and maybe voters are not as motivated, this is going to motivate them. I've seen it from the leadership already, from the president himself and from Speaker Johnson that this has become part of their daily conversation when they do a media hit, which is these guys are lunatics, they're crazy and they want to upend the country. It didn't help them to have their party co chair on Susan Bream this weekend. We played the clip yesterday on the morning meeting, basically affirming all of the really radical things they want to do that don't fit with the Democrats, let alone the country. So it's going to I think it is going to make a difference, but even a bigger difference is going to be the close to billion dollars they've got to play with when it's just concentrated in about four or five states and about 20 districts.
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Kevin I think the biggest mistake the press has made and the Democrats have made about Donald Trump in terms of elections is they take issues that are actually broadly popular or in the case of Democratic positions, sometimes broadly unpopular, and they characterize them as, that's just for the MAGA base. That's just for the extremists. Getting rid of police is not, is not something just the MAGA base opposes. It's broadly unpopular. So how does your party grapple with that going forward to make sure that the party is not defined by the most extreme elements?
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Yeah, we talk about it all the time, especially on the morning meeting. I mean, these are 80, 20 issues, maybe 90, 10 issues when it comes to abolishing police and certainly abolishing ice. We also talk about the fact that, you know, Republicans are obviously going to spend a lot of resources making this a choice election and putting out some of the most extreme candidates out there that are DSA backed. Not just in terms of the ads that you're going to see from Republicans. You also see members of the press asking kind of center left centrist Democrats if they agree with xyz, if they agree with Shannon Bream's interview with this DSA co chair when it comes to abolishing the Senate or the Supreme Court, for example. And it's incumbent on Democrats in these last hundred days with you saw, with the leader Hakeem Jeffries campaigning with Josh Shapiro and Bob Brooks, one of our key pickup opportunities in the commonwealth. Talk about the economy and keep it a referendum on the president as much as we can to combat the massive amounts of ad spending that we're going to see from the other side.
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I don't think, though, just real fast, just saying that this is a MAGA base issue is not, shouldn't be discarded. If the MAGA base shows up, Republicans will do just fine. They've got to motivate that base. That's what this midterm election is all about. It's going to be whose base shows up. And if the MAGA base shows up, I think we're going to be fine in these districts. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't just write it off by saying, oh, that issue is just for the MAGA base. It's a good issue if it's appealing to the base and it gets them to the polls.
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Catch your point, Larry, too. I mean that that enthusiasm gap is real, that we're seeing. And you're seeing, you know, red alerts coming from AFP Action and others that are doing this polling that, you know, one in five Republicans at that Megabase are not enthusiastic about this election. And Republicans have always struggled. Right. To figure out election dynamics with Trump not at the top of the ticket and getting some of those die hard folks out.
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Well, and that's why when both of you sort of question why president keeps pushing on the Save act, pushing on the Save act, because the message to the base right now is even when we're in the majority, we can't do the best basics. The basics are, you know, photo id. So if they show up dry, if they show up empty handed and said, sorry, we couldn't get it done, the base will stay home. That's a real problem for them.
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Yeah. Here's another thing, here's another thing that I think could depress the base. And, and I think this is an issue hiding in plain sight. And, and Kevin, you're right, of course. The economy is front and center and every poll says that. But increasingly I hear Democrats talking about the war. The war is not popular. The war is. The war doesn't poll well against Iran. And we've now had votes in both chambers seeing Republican defections against the president. Not in huge numbers, but I suspect if there were a secret ballot, a lot of Republicans would vote against the war. And of course, it's effortless to link the war to people's unhappiness with the economy. This president is engaged in a war of choice that's cost us a lot of money, that's risen gas prices, et cetera. So how front and center do you think the war will be as compared to the economy? And how would you talk about the war if you were running a Democratic race?
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Yeah, Mark, it's a good question. I mean, they're interlinked. Right. You've seen some Democrats really effectively, I think Jon Ossoff especially making that link in those rallies and speeches saying this is a direct result of our adventurism in Iran these last five months and making the case both on the Iran war front, but and also on the tariff front too, that these are all policies enacted by this administration that are directly raising costs across the board. Again, tackling that number one issue when it comes to affordability. And you're going to see a lot more Democrats making that connection in the last couple of months of this cycle because it is so apparent. And you're also seeing not just bleed among independents, but you're also seeing some defections among the MAGA base that we just talked about where there's a large percentage of Americans not just against this war, but also a good percentage of MAGA based supporters that want to hear a clear articulation from the president about our goals there. And that's interesting to see that kind of bleed. Obviously independents go back and forth. Democrats are siloed in our camp roundly against this president and against this war. But to see that bleed from the MAGA base is also interesting.
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Larry, what about the vulnerabilities on the war?
- [34:14]
B
There's a huge vulnerability there insofar as it affects the economy. Listen, if gas prices and what is affected by fuel prices in America, energy prices in America were not negatively affected, I don't think you would see it as big an issue and you wouldn't see as much cold feet from Republicans running for reelection right now. But it is, it's affecting fuel, it's affecting energy prices and that affects everything. And I think one of the challenges for Republicans is that one of the most effective voices in Congress for increasing our presence and increasing our military and increasing our military strikes against Iran and sort of going further into this engagement, one of the most prominent voices is lying in state right now, Lindsey Graham, I think losing his voice in promoting the military incursion in Iran, I think is going to have a major effect. And now on that side of Pennsylvania Avenue down at the Capitol, the prevailing thought, the prevailing message you're hearing from Republicans is let's wrap this up, let's wrap this up sooner rather than later. They were hoping it would have already been wrapped up by now. And I think that that's that voice I think is winning the day right now with the president's influence, it appears.
- [35:35]
C
Larry, do you think it's too and
- [35:36]
B
by the way, three weeks ago, do
- [35:37]
C
you think it's too late with I don't think voters already making up their impressions for the fall?
- [35:42]
B
I don't think so. Not if it affects gas prices. We've seen gas prices be affected pretty quickly and see the results at the polls. Three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I think that it was 50, 50 if not the, the more influential voices were saying it's time to bomb more, it's time to get involved. You saw the president leaning in that direction. I wonder how much Lindsey Graham's voice not being part of that conversation is having an effect on this now.
- [36:07]
A
I'm not sure, Kevin, if you take Jon Ossoff off the table, because I'm pretty sure that would be your answer. Who's, who's a, who's a Democratic nominee who, if you were running races, other places you would show game film of and say this this gal or this guy, they're doing it right. They're the right message, the right connection to social media, etc. Who's who, what candidate on your party has game this cycle?
- [36:31]
C
Besides, I think, yeah, I think Roy Cooper in North Carolina has, has game both on the social media front and both on the fact that, you know, this is a Republican held seat that we're no longer even really talking about it being in contention.
- [36:44]
A
Is he on TikTok?
- [36:46]
C
I think he is on TikTok. He's had some effect on social media.
- [36:50]
A
I got to explore that because he's older than TikTok itself.
- [36:52]
C
He's older. He's older certainly. And I think Josh Shapiro too, I mean let's not forget he's also up for reelection for this governor's race. A lot of eyes will be on the governor just to see how wide that margin will be against Garrity in the fall for indications for 2028. He's really effective when it comes to social media. He does, you know, he's tuned in and his team is tuned into the latest kind of things that young people are interested in in terms of memes and stuff like that. And he is a very effective communicator when it comes to that.
- [37:23]
A
Larry, who are two or three superstar Republican candidates who you would show game film of to others?
- [37:29]
B
I'd say right now in terms of traditional campaigning being disciplined on message, raising money, I'm liking Mike Rogers chances in Michigan right now. And don't ask me about TikTok because I don't think he knows from TikTok. But Michigan is a different animal. Michigan, the 50 plus voter is going to be the most active and important influential demographic in that election.
- [37:49]
A
So he's on. So he's on MySpace.
- [37:51]
B
That's right. That's right.
- [37:53]
C
Friendster. He's on. He's got the Friendster vote locked up.
- [37:56]
B
And surprisingly, I think people were really, really impressed with Andy Biggs in Arizona in that primary win.
- [38:03]
A
That was a. I mean that margin
- [38:05]
B
is massive, absolutely massive. And he's got, because of his connections with Turning Point USA and the support he's getting from those guys, he does have a pretty good social media game. So that that Arizona race is looking exceptionally good for Andy Biggs and Republicans right now. And Mark, you've already talked about how important that'll be for the 2020, 2028 presidential election.
- [38:26]
A
Have either of you heard of any innovations in, in ground game and get out the vote, Anything that's happening that not been tried before, technology or anything, Kevin.
- [38:36]
C
Not necessarily in terms of new technologies and things like that. I think AI is having more and more of an engagement when it comes to the voter file. Right. And making election predictions in terms of turnout models and things like that. I know there's a lot of data vendors out there that are increasingly active with AI models. I will also say, and we talked about this on the morning meeting a few days ago, really interested to see what's what swing left is up to. They're well financed, they're doing a lot of ground game engagement in some of these key congressional districts and states with trained canvassers that aren't out there just saying vote for Barack Obama, vote for Hillary Clinton, but actually having and spurring the conversation with voters. They're going to every door, not just, you know, oftentimes you get a packet if you're, you know, a field organizer or a volunteer saying go to knock on this door, ask for this person. They're having conversations with everyone. The idea that there's some potential for persuasion for everybody in this electoral climate. So I'm super interested with what they're doing. And that data is going back. It's not just like three or five voters and things like that in terms of likelihood to vote for a particular candidate, but they're getting the issue based information as well, which will drive a lot of advertising to particular voters. So super interested with what they're doing.
- [39:55]
A
Larry. If you think about the groups on the Republican side that have been involved in voter engagement, voter turnout, the Koch group, Turning Point, some others, AFC Turning
- [40:06]
B
Point, Heritage Action, are the big three.
- [40:09]
C
Did Elon fund a lot of field stuff or was it more ads? Did, did he do it?
- [40:13]
A
He did some of a field program.
- [40:15]
C
Yeah.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah, but I think, yeah, especially for get out for voter registration, but not get out the vote as much.
- [40:20]
A
Are the, are those. You know, I keep, I keep telling people we need the voter registration data because that's an early warning sign of things. I haven't seen much and we got to go harvest that. But what do you see in terms of the two sides? Does either side have an advantage on get out the vote?
- [40:35]
B
I see TPUSA upping their game. They learned a lot in 24 and, and part of the process, it was really the first major election where they were as involved as with door to door with their iPads, with their devices, you know, honing down that data. And we also saw. I keep going back to this. I sound like a broken record. For those of you old enough to know what a broken record means. But that Indiana state senate race where, where James Blair and his operation focused on the voters in those state Senate districts and they were specifically voted targeting Republican voters who aren't usually engaged in a state primary. And they got them engaged. That's what they need to do. They need to get Republicans, who are Republicans and they're passionate and they care about the issues, but they don't bother to vote or they don't bother to get engaged in a midterm. We're notorious at that. Republicans are not great at getting involved when it's not a presidential race. And that that caught my attention that they were able to get Republicans to unseat four out of five incumbent state senators in Indiana in a primary that most people wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to. And they delivered. And that tells me they've got some data tools that are really effective.
- [41:46]
A
All right. Quick break. When we come back, more with the fun bunch from my Morning zoo. Larry, Larry, description of us, Larry and Kevin, Beep, beep. Larry and Kevin from Two Ways Morning Meeting. More with them right after this.
- [42:00]
B
Next up,
- [42:03]
A
there's a question that runs under everything on this program, no matter what topics we're covering, who's actually looking out for you and who's just looking out for themselves? I want to ask you that same question about something a lot of you are dealing with right now, your Medicare coverage. Two Medicare plans going to be exact same coverage, the same doctors and wildly different prices, same benefits, different bill. And unless somebody goes looking, you'd never know it. Chapter a company of independent Medicare advisors found exactly that for someone in this audience last month, same coverage for three different carriers and switching to a new plan, put a couple thousand dollars back in their pocket over the course of the plan. That's the whole idea. Chapter is the only Medicare advisors who compare every plan from every carrier across the whole country. Their advisors aren't paid to push one plan over another. If they check and you're already on the best plan for you, they'll tell you that. But if not, they will help you make the switch. A real conversation with the real person, free in under 20 minutes. Folks who switched with chapter last year saved on average eleven hundred dollars. So give my friends over at chapter A call their number there. 2624-5405-0326-2454-0503. People who check tell me the same thing. They wish they'd called sooner. All right. Next up, back with Larry o' Connor and Kevin Walling of My program with me, my co host on the morning meeting on two way. Every Monday through Friday on two Way. Larry, although we don't have four hours. Tell everybody where else they can see your work.
- [43:41]
B
Oh, well, I am a nationally syndicated morning radio host on the Salem Network. But you can, you can grab it@larryoshow.com that's my website.
- [43:53]
A
What time does that start, Larry?
- [43:54]
B
That is 6:00am to 9:00am Eastern Time. But I'm on over 200 stations now nationwide. But our flagship is WMAL in Washington D.C. we also stream that for video on Salem News Channel, which you can get at Roku, Samsung TV and all the other places you get your video apps. And then of course, the morning meeting every day from 9 to 10 on the two way platform. And then I do a town hall streaming podcast at noon that is on YouTube and every other streaming platform via Town Hall Media. And I write at Town hall as well, but I haven't been writing as much, as much as helping the other writers at Town Hall.
- [44:30]
C
You can basically spend the entire day watching Larry.
- [44:33]
B
I also, I co host the Kevin Roberts podcast for Heritage Foundation. We have one episode a week where we do that show as well.
- [44:39]
A
All right, so that's, that's five hours, five hours a day. Times five. That's 25 hours a week. Plus the Kevin Roberts. That's 26 hours a week.
- [44:45]
B
Correct.
- [44:46]
A
Yeah. Do you ever fall asleep on the air? Have you ever fell asleep on the air?
- [44:50]
B
Never. I've had a guest fall asleep on the air though. Michael Barone.
- [44:53]
C
You gotta name names.
- [44:55]
B
Yeah, Michael, absolutely. It's legendary. Michael Barone was a guest in the morning and we were talking about, I don't know, polling or some election that was coming up. And before you knew it, I heard snoring on the other side of the phone.
- [45:07]
A
Yeah, I fallen asleep not only only on radio, but I've audio, but I fallen asleep on camera because I'm tired. Larry. That's a lot, Kevin. You just do one hour a week, pretty much just sitting around.
- [45:20]
B
Step up your game wallet. Come on.
- [45:21]
C
It gives me the time to read all these books behind me so I can take on Larry in the morning every day.
- [45:26]
A
All right, let's talk about my favorite topic. This program is the leading chronicler of what people think of J.D. vance. He's been a little under, under the radar because, because he just had a kid. He spoke on Capitol Hill today on the Lindsey Graham thing. It's first time we've seen him in a bit. What, what is the status of how America feels about Vice President Vance right now. How would you characterize his place? Obviously it's different across the political spectrum, but, but just almost taking the politics out of it. Kevin, how do people feel about him? Is, is he, is he enjoying a honeymoon at all with the American people? Is it totally bifurcated because a lot of people in the Republican Party now don't like him, or at least some elites?
- [46:08]
C
Yeah, I think to some degree. Interestingly enough, I think he's still kind of an unknown figure despite writing a best selling memoir of his childhood, appearing across all these different programs. Bill Maher, the View, Other places he turns 42 next week, which is my birthday as well when I turn 41. So I think there's still a curiosity around him and the fact that he only served in the Senate for a short time before being elevated on the ticket with Donald Trump, President Trump, that there are still a lot of questions. Again, he wrote this new book about his, his conversion to Catholicism, but I think there's still a curiosity and an interest to want to know more about what his actual core values are in a really good place to be potentially the next President of the United States.
- [46:57]
A
Yeah, Larry, that's a hard thing. The exact thing Kevin just said, letting people know what your core values are. It's a hard thing for every vice president. It's just the nature of the office. And so if you think about, let's say every vice president since Bush 41 was Reagan's vice president, where would you rank J.D. vance as a political athlete compared to those people? So we're talking about Bush 41 and then we're talking about Al Gore and Dan Quayle, Joe Biden, Dick Cheney, Kamala Harris, Mike Pence. That's a fine group of people. I've known all of them to greater, lesser extents, but I wouldn't say any of them was like a world class political athlete. Right. So yeah, where would you, where would you rank Vance? Where would you put him in that? If you were stacking them, would he be the best political athlete, second best, who's ahead of him?
- [47:46]
B
It's astounding if you think about it, because you look at those names and those are people who were had long. I mean, maybe not Kamala Harris, but everybody else had a pretty long track record in Washington, D.C. they had served in the Senate or George Herbert Walker Bush's case, the CIA ambassador to China. I mean, so he's a novice. People forget he was only a senator for two years and never held political office before that. And I may surprise you, but, but for one of the skill sets that I value pretty high, and that is communicating your ideas and being able to, to interact with the media and come across as a conservative Republican, but still an affable and likable individual, I think he's right up there, honestly. That's, now, that's not the entirety of politics, but that's a big part of politics.
- [48:33]
C
I mean, he had, I think he had Joy Bear saying nice things about him afterwards.
- [48:36]
A
He's a pretty extraordinary. And a related skill is giving a great speech. I thought his speech to NATO at the beginning of the administration is literally one of the best speeches I've seen
- [48:48]
B
someone give or the NATO speech of the Munich.
- [48:51]
A
I mean, the Munich. Sorry, munich. Yes.
- [48:53]
B
Oh, 100%.
- [48:54]
A
That was a speech, speech largely about NATO. It's one of the best vice presidential speeches I've ever never heard. For sure. And so I, I, I, I've been thinking about this, which is why I asked you guys. I think even though he's new to politics and even though he's, he's rubbed some people the wrong way, I think he's arguably the most politically gifted vice president we've had. You know, I don't know, back to LBJ, maybe. Yeah.
- [49:17]
B
You know, I mean, I mean, and
- [49:19]
A
by the way, for sure, I think
- [49:22]
B
he's a pretty good fundraiser, too. I mean, he's, he's, he's bringing in some numbers right now. Now, a lot of that is because of his connection and his affiliation with Donald Trump and, and one wonders what his political trajectory would be if we didn't have President Trump and if he wasn't selected as, but, but he is the man in that position right now. And I think of the criticism of Vance and I, I tell my friends, I've got a lot of friends in this side of the, you know, media world, in the right world, who really, really don't like him. No, And I've reached, I said, what am I, what am I missing? I don't understand what the, A lot of it comes down to Israel and the relationship with Tucker Carlson, but I think that's very much an intramural inter interview.
- [50:05]
C
Larry.
- [50:06]
B
Huh? Can you. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because I don't think it resonates with voters. Mark's question was with Americans, not with people who are living on Twitter and, and have podcasts.
- [50:17]
A
But here, but here's the thing. Leaving, leaving the small number of influential people who've really, in a party, in a Republican Party who's really Turned against him. I mean, they're like, he shouldn't be the nominee.
- [50:27]
B
Oh, yeah, they're never Vance.
- [50:28]
A
They're calling them never Vance, Never Vance, leaving them aside. And I don't minimize them. And I continue to say that the Vance people. I think you're underestimating the impediment that the never Vance people could be. I think about him in the context of the midterms, Kevin, if. Where could he go? In which of the targeted House or Senate or governor's races, where could he go? Where Democrats would say, that's going to be a big. A big. A big advantage for Republicans? Because I can't really see. I can't see that. Give me a race. I think he can go Iowa governor's race.
- [51:00]
C
I think he can go fairly anywhere. Just like we saw the dynamic where, you know, folks didn't want Barack Obama in their district for the midterms, but they wanted Joe Biden. And I point back to how effective he was in Maine. Right. Most political prognosticators would say, okay, the administration should steer clear of Maine. But he actually helped Susan Collins by saying, we like Susan Collins. She often doesn't vote with us, emphasizing her independence streak, which is what she needs to do to win, and was really effective as a messenger there. So I think he could, particularly if he calibrates his messages effectively, as he did on the ground in Maine, he can go pretty much anywhere, I think.
- [51:39]
B
I think you'll see him in Ohio. I think you'll see him.
- [51:42]
C
Sure. For Ohio.
- [51:43]
B
You see him in Georgia.
- [51:45]
C
Yeah.
- [51:45]
B
If Francesca Hong wins in Wisconsin, I think you'll definitely see him in Wisconsin. I think you'll see him in Iowa.
- [51:51]
A
And she's a former bartender. I don't know. She a current bartender?
- [51:54]
B
No, chef. She was a chef.
- [51:56]
A
Really? I thought she was a bartender.
- [51:58]
B
No, you're thinking of the. The. There's a waitress in Wisconsin running for a House seat who's also aligned with.
- [52:04]
A
I'm gonna.
- [52:04]
B
She's definitely a chef.
- [52:05]
C
She was.
- [52:05]
A
All right.
- [52:06]
B
Chef, bartender.
- [52:08]
A
She's. She's running. She's the front runner to be the Republican, Democrat gubernatorial nominee.
- [52:13]
B
Yes. And she is.
- [52:16]
A
She'll be a big. A big target if. If he's the nominee. If she's.
- [52:20]
B
And so you'll see in places like that where maybe Trump, you know, won't. Won't be as effective. I don't know if Trump going to Wisconsin would be as effective at this point as Vance going to Wisconsin.
- [52:29]
C
Similar, as we saw, like I said, with Obama and Biden right.
- [52:32]
A
Kevin, if J.D. vance is not the most politically talented Vice President since Bush 41, who is?
- [52:43]
C
It's a, It's a good question. I think, from a power perspective in terms of running government. Dick Cheney.
- [52:50]
A
No, no, no. Political.
- [52:51]
B
For the inside. Yeah, for the game.
- [52:54]
C
For the inside game. I, I think he's. I think he's probably at the top of the list. Again, we, you know, we tend to discount Al Gore because of what happened in 2000, but he had some political chops.
- [53:06]
A
Yeah.
- [53:06]
C
Didn't read the electorate that well. Ran away from Bill Clinton. And one of the reasons. But I think in terms of. I think in terms of raw political talent and to the point where he's served only two years in the Senate and is now the second most powerful person in the Western world, I think does speak volumes to his political instincts.
- [53:23]
A
Totally agree, Larry. If he's not number one, who is?
- [53:26]
B
Dick Nixon.
- [53:27]
A
No, I go. I start with 41. 41 with Reagan. I think the answer to me is 41, although I think Vance may be better. 41 is an underrated political athlete.
- [53:38]
B
41 was. You know what? Gore was pretty good.
- [53:43]
A
Gore would be my other option.
- [53:45]
B
Gore was good.
- [53:47]
A
Here's why I can't count Gore. He agreed to go campaign at a Buddhist temple. That, to me, just like disqualifying right there. If you, if the staff says, Mr. Vice President, we need you to go raise some money at a Buddhist temple. If you got good political instincts, you say, you know what? I'll meet him at the wall.
- [54:02]
C
I'm keeping my shoes on. I'm keeping my shoes on.
- [54:04]
A
I used to live.
- [54:06]
B
I used to live right down the street from that Buddhist temple on Hacienda Boulevard in Hacienda Heights, California. I used to drive past it, actually.
- [54:13]
A
Yeah, Kevin.
- [54:14]
B
I lived in Mahabra Heights.
- [54:15]
A
Kevin, there are so many things that happened in the 2000. I'm sorry, 96 campaign for fundraising. You just wouldn't believe. And you were. Where Were you in 96? You were in junior high school, elementary school?
- [54:29]
C
Yeah, I was like. Middle school. Yeah, middle school.
- [54:32]
A
Anyway, Agora campaigned a Buddhist. Hold on.
- [54:34]
B
You're my wife's age, aren't you? Yikes.
- [54:36]
C
I'm 40. I'm 41.
- [54:39]
A
Gore campaigned in a Buddhist temple, and he went to a lot of fundraising meetings that were controversial. Stuff was discussed, but he said into the investigators. I missed a lot of those conversations because I was always so tired. I had to drink a lot of iced tea. And because I drank a lot of iced tea, I had to excuse myself to go to the bathroom a lot. And and then when he got called, caught making fundraising calls from his office. Kevin, do you know about no controlling legal authority?
- [55:03]
B
No controlling legal authority.
- [55:05]
C
Oh, but then also too offering up the Lincoln Bedroom to donors too is also. Well, I think I realized
- [55:13]
A
that was more of a Clinton thing. The no controlling legal authority folks, if you haven't seen it, just go on your YouTube and take a look. It's one of the greatest press conferences.
- [55:21]
B
You know what? Now that you remind me of that forget I said he was a great
- [55:23]
A
political I'm saying those, those three things, the ISO D, the Buddhist temple and the no controlling legal authority. I must subtract points. I must.
- [55:33]
C
And not winning his home state too.
- [55:36]
B
The East German judge is always the toughest.
- [55:39]
A
Gentlemen, pleasure having you on. Ladies and gentlemen, if this conversation at all resonated with you, if it made made you say like, but those guys are entertaining. I'd like more. Well, every Monday through Friday, 9am Eastern time on the two way platform or on YouTube, you can watch them on the morning meeting where I just tee up the topics and watch them go guys. Thank you. Great to see. I'll see you at 9am tomorrow.
- [55:58]
B
Thanks, Mark.
- [55:59]
C
Thanks, Mark.
- [56:00]
A
All right, next up, we take a look at the Democratic Party's current financial woes, problems with the chairman of the DNC and the implications it could have not just for the midterms, but for the presidential contest looming. That discussion is next up. Hey, and if you have not subscribed to the NextUp Instagram page, please do. You can get bonus content there, best moments from the show and a lot of fun because Instagram is its own unique beast. So follow us there at NextUp Halperin. And of course you can listen to the program as a podcast if you don't want to see me. But just listen. Subscribe to Next up with Mark Halpern wherever you get your podcast. And make sure you've got the downloads turned on. So the episodes just come magically floating into your device. You'll get everything new, fresh and fast as soon as it goes live. Oh, no. Here on Next up, you've heard it. Everybody's now talking about those weight loss injections because the results are so dramatic. 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That's promo code nextupatean.com all right, next up, connecting two strands that I haven't really seen anybody connect up. That's a big deal for the Democratic party and the 28 presidential race. Two stories in the news. One, the Democrats set their calendar for the nominating process for president in 2028. It's not final approval, but the committee that was in charge of coming up with something did. And it sets out as a series of the early voting states starting in South Carolina. The other DNC story around the same time was the chairman of the Democratic Party, Ken Martin was exposed in a series of investigative pieces to have been the subject of a HR review because he allegedly threw a phone and he can't raise money, which we've known. But people openly expressing their concern about that and some calling for his resignation, some strategist, at least one member of the House Democrat calling for him to go, nice guy, but I've said from the beginning did not seem up to the job. And here's the connection between the two. What the Democrats have proposed in terms of a schedule has some problems with it. Number one, New Hampshire has a state law that says they must go first. They must have the first primary. They're currently listed as third. And if you, if you campaign in New Hampshire as a candidate, in theory, you lose access to the debates. Okay, then we get to the more general question of the debates. Keeping the calendar in together, making sure the state parties are doing good contests because South Carolina has been an early state. But going first is a lot of pressure. And then the debates, who are the hosts? Who are the moderators? What are the rules? Who gets to participate in those debates? What's the threshold? Right. Everybody's expecting a big field. But what do you need to be in the debates? Do you need a certain number of donors? Do you need a certain number of poll, poll results that are good? These are complicated, tough issues to adjudicate and they have huge Implications, particularly in a party like the Democrats that doesn't like conflict, doesn't like exclusion, doesn't want, let's just say hypothetically, a lot of the candidates who don't make the debates based on the qualifications are women or non white people. Okay, These are, these are complicated issues. And what does it take to deal with complicated issues like that? A strong chair, because you're going up against the campaigns and the campaigns are, you know, they're everything. They're, they're the presidential hopefuls for your party. So what I think needs to be thought about, because Ken Martin so far is showing no signs of going, is how does a guy who's been a weak chair, weak as a fundraiser, weak on tv, weak, convincing the party to do stuff and the donors and the politicians, how does that guy, starting in a few months, right after the midterms, how does that guy put together a debate schedule that holds a nomination calendar that holds a. And then gets executed on. Okay, in addition, I've written about this in the past in, in 1992 when Bill Clinton won. Anybody who covered that race or studied it will tell you he won in part because Ron Brown, the chair of the party, put together an operation that the Clinton folks could inherit to get the electoral votes you need. They don't control the White House. It's up to the dnc. And again, what does that require? Influence, Fundraising organization, strong leadership. And so people are talking about Ken Martin being a weak leader now, unable to raise the money required to fund the midterms. Just you wait till he has to do two things at once. Immediately after the midterms hold together. The nominating process, including the debates. Choosing the moderators alone is a massive undertaking, complex. And lay the groundwork for an electoral college strategy which, if the Democratic nominating process goes deep into the spring, is more important than ever. Because the candidates are fighting for the nomination, they can't focus as much on the general election. So this issue of whether Ken Martin stays, and if he stays, if he can up his game, and if he goes, who replaces him? While people have talked about that in the context of the midterms, it's a massive issue for the general election. And I will make this prediction. If he does stay, he is going to be stunned by the complexities of just the nominating calendar of the early states and of the debates. Godspeed. Good luck. Break a leg. Ken Martin, you thought the midterms were tough? Wait till you see the presidential. That's it for today's program. Grateful to you for being here. Appreciate you being an extra and listening and watching. You can watch the program on YouTube at NextUp Halperin and you can listen to it as a podcast whenever you want. It's always there. We do episodes Tuesdays and Thursdays and bonus content. Wherever you get your podcast, make sure, as we always tell you, have your downloads loaded, have your downloads checked so you get everything right when it runs. We'll be back on Thursday with another episode. Join me then. So you always know what's coming next up.