What Maine Voters Really Think About Graham Platner and Susan Collins

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode: What Maine Voters Really Think About Graham Platner and Susan Collins
Date: June 20, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (MK Media), with contributions from a focus group of five Maine voters

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Overview

This special episode features a focus group of five Maine voters—representing a spectrum of political opinions—discussing the upcoming Senate race between incumbent Republican Senator Susan Collins and Democratic challenger Graham Platner. The discussion delves into the candidates' strengths, weaknesses, character, and the broader mood among Maine voters, revealing why the race is remarkably tight despite controversies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Focus on Maine's Senate Race?

• Quantitative and Qualitative Combined:
  Halperin explains the value of combining polling (over 1,000 Mainers) with qualitative focus group insights.
  "A focus group gives you the voices...certain sentiments resonating in my head, certain thoughts that, backed up often by the poll, also just make some solid sense." — Mark Halperin [01:03]
• National Importance:
  The Maine race illustrates the national mood—dissatisfaction with incumbents, hunger for change, and skepticism toward political outsiders.

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2. First Impressions: Strengths of Susan Collins

(Roundtable begins by naming the best thing about Senator Collins)

• Experience & Influence:
  "She's been a long-standing senator...that's a good and a bad thing...Her experience and her influences." — Amy C. [03:31]
  "She's been in Congress for a long time...leads many committees. That's the hard thing that you want to lose as a senator." — Zach [03:51]

• Professionalism:
  "She speaks in a professional, collegial manner, at least publicly." — Amy S. [04:18]

• Other Views:
  Chris finds it hard to identify any positives.
  Charles simply responds: "Power." [04:18]

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3. Drawbacks & Weaknesses of Susan Collins

• Votes on Supreme Court Justices:
  "It was her decision to support some of the justices that are on the Supreme Court right now that really turned me off." — Amy C. [04:45]

• Not Conservative Enough (from a Republican perspective):
  "She's a very light Republican...failure to be conservative enough." — Zach [05:05]

• Lack of Backbone/Courage:
  "She hasn't shown a backbone on issues that really matter...only saying no when it's inconsequential and that doesn't show courage." — Amy S. [06:32]

• Performative Independence:
  "She speaks out both sides of her mouth...claims to be independent when it doesn't matter." — Charles [05:26]

• Loyalty to Trump’s Agenda:
  "She seems to vote pretty consistently with Trump, but when she doesn’t, it's only when Republicans already have the votes." — Chris [05:53]

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4. One-Word Descriptions of Collins

• Realistic (Zach) [07:15]
• Performative (Chris) [07:24]
• Nice (Charles) [07:33]
• Constructive (Amy C.) [07:39]
• Ungenuine (Amy S.) [07:44]

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5. Who is Graham Platner? Why is He Gaining Ground?

(None had heard of Platner before his campaign)

• Desperation for Change:
  "People are just desperate for change...he represents a new way of doing things, some foundational intelligence, the ability to inspire." — Amy S. [08:21]
  "Platner seems to be a personification of that desperation." — Charles [09:05]

• Appeal Despite Gaffes and Controversies:
  "Negative stuff that's come out has been old...four tours in Afghanistan...he’s been open about it." — Amy C. [10:24]

• Willingness to Own Mistakes:
  "He...at least has sort of owned it and said...I was going through PTSD...He didn’t claim his accounts were hacked, or it was out of context." — Chris [11:06]

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6. Reservations About Platner’s Explanations

• PTSD as an Excuse?
  "I would rather that he said, yeah, I said it and I did it, but it wasn't because of my PTSD." — Charles [12:15]
  Supporters are divided on whether PTSD should be accepted as an explanation for problematic past behavior.

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7. What Do Voters Want to Change?

• Party and Policy Control:
  "Congress needs to...Democrats need to control Congress...intense need to challenge what's going on in Washington today with the Trump administration." — Amy S. [14:11]

• Age & New Generation:
  "It's time to get all of these old people over 70...bring in some people that are younger." — Amy C. [15:41]
  "I would like Congress as a whole to be younger." — Zach [16:00]

• Grassroots & Special Interests:
  "Trying to do grassroots campaigns and keep big money out...health care is my number one issue." — Amy C. [16:44]

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8. Stated Voting Leans (as of June 2026)

• Leaning Platner: Amy C.
• Solid for Collins: Zach
• Solid for Platner: Chris, Amy S. (Amy S.: “With my nose plugged.”)
• Undecided: Charles [17:26–17:45]

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9. The Platner Controversies

• Tattoo (alleged Nazi symbol), Social Media Posts, Treatment of Women:
  • Majority do not believe Platner's explanation for the tattoo’s meaning [26:51–27:20]
  • The treatment of women is particularly concerning to most

Quotes:

• "I don't believe it [about the tattoo]." — Amy S. [33:52]
• "His conduct towards his wife...that goes for me, that goes to his character." — Charles [32:22]
• "The lack of respect toward women...really bordered on [abuse] in a way that I found upsetting." — Chris [34:20]
• "That's the most troubling [attitude toward women]." — Zach [34:53]

Mitigation:

• Some say people change and should be judged by current actions, others remain unconvinced—even by public support from his wife.

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10. Strengths and Weaknesses of Platner

Positives:

• "He doesn't seem like he's gonna back down or be easily cowed on any issue." — Chris [20:10]
• "His lack of connection to big donors." — Charles [20:23]
• "Fighting for the rights of ordinary people." — Amy S. [20:30]
• "He speaks more for the people of Maine." — Amy C. [21:02]

Negatives:

• Inexperience:
  "He has no experience at all...every other senator in the room is going to have years of experience. I'll take experience over strength anytime." — Charles [21:51]
• Concerns about Character/Trust:
  "I really don't trust him...concerned that we don't know where he's going." — Amy S. [22:54]
• Divisiveness:
  "He's going to be divisive...another congressman that's going to be loud on camera but not actually achieve anything." — Zach [23:45]

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11. Moral Values—Who Ranks Higher?

• Split opinions, sometimes along gender and party lines:
  • "I would rate Platner higher." — Amy S. [25:06]
  • "Susan [Collins], absolutely." — Charles [25:19]
  • "I would have said Susan Collins, but I'm gonna say Graham Platner...she doesn't support the rights of women." — Amy C. [25:27]
  • "Platner, in terms of moral behavior being something that has a much wider effect." — Chris [25:47]
  • "Susan Collins." — Zach [25:22]

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12. One-Word Descriptions of Platner

• Pugnacious (Amy C.) [26:27]
• Angry (Charles, Zach) [26:29–26:41]
• Feisty (Amy S.) [26:44]
• Pugnacious also echoed by Chris

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13. Broader Reflections: The “Lesser of Two Evils”

• "This is a race [where] it's the lesser of two evils." — Paraphrase of Halperin’s closing summary [37:47]
• Both parties' weaknesses fuel a contest marked more by skepticism than enthusiasm. Despite deep reservations about Platner, many voters are ready to vote for him, largely due to dissatisfaction with Collins and national political dynamics (especially Trump).

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14. Who Will Win? Voter Predictions

• Chris: Platner (has “fire behind him”), but recognizes reservations [35:49]
• Zach: Collins, due to her usual coalition of Republicans and independents [36:18]
• Amy S.: Worries Collins will win again, as history predicts [36:45]
• Charles: Collins, owing to her “machine” and outside money [36:56]
• Amy C.: Thinks Collins will probably win, although she has lost Amy’s personal support [37:21]

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “She hasn’t shown a backbone on issues that really matter...only saying no when it’s inconsequential and that doesn’t show courage.” — Amy S. [06:32]
• “Desperate for a change...he represents a new way.” — Amy S. on Platner [08:21]
• “I really don’t trust him...concerned that we don’t know where he’s going.” — Amy S. on Platner [22:54]
• “I think Platner clearly has vulnerability...only one sort of believed his explanation about his tattoo.” — Mark Halperin [38:00]
• “Even the ones who plan to vote for [Platner], all of them have reservations about Susan Collins. To some extent, as seen through their eyes, this is a race lesser of two evils.” — Mark Halperin [37:47]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:54] — Introduction of focus group and framing the discussion
• [03:24] — Participants name positive traits of Susan Collins
• [04:33] — Discussion of Collins’ weaknesses
• [07:01] — One-word descriptions of Collins
• [08:21] — Discussion shifts to Graham Platner’s rise and appeal
• [13:13] — PTSD as a reason/excuse for Platner’s controversies discussed
• [14:11] — What changes voters want and why Platner appeals
• [17:26] — Participants state their current vote leanings
• [18:25] — Discussion of Platner’s controversies and why some voters look past them
• [19:50] — Most attractive thing about Platner if he were a senator
• [21:16] — Biggest concerns about Platner if elected
• [24:29] — Moral values comparison: Collins vs. Platner
• [26:04] — One-word impressions of Platner
• [26:51] — Group reaction to Platner's explanation of his tattoo
• [30:48] — Holding nose to vote for Platner: rationalizations and reservations
• [31:25] — Which Platner controversy bothers participants most
• [35:49] — Who will win and why: roundtable predictions
• [37:47] — Final reflections on the race dynamics and what they reveal about national trends

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Final Thoughts

The panel underscores a defining feature of the 2026 Maine Senate race: deep ambivalence on all sides. Collins’ long tenure is seen as both valuable and problematic, while Platner’s energy and willingness to shake up the establishment come weighed down by personal controversies and inexperience. Underlying it all is a powerful sense—both in Maine and nationally—of dissatisfaction with the status quo and anxiety about what true change might actually entail.

As Halperin sums up:
"To some extent, as seen through their eyes, this is a race [where] it’s the lesser of two evils. But some themes emerge...Donald Trump has had a huge impact on this race...if you want change, the best way to get change is to vote for somebody in a totally different mold." [38:00]

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This episode offers a revealing microcosm of American political angst and the difficult trade-offs facing voters in 2026.

Transcript

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[Chris]

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[Host/Interviewer]

Hey everybody. Mark Calper Special episode. Some content for you that you won't see anywhere else except on my platforms. This is a focus group that I did this week. Five main voters talking about Susan Collins and Graham Platner and the mood of the country. We did it in conjunction with our friend David Brill at WIC with his colleagues. We also did with them, they did a poll this week that we shared on two Way. So combining a poll and a focus group, why do we do that? One is quantitative, one is qualitative. The quantitative is the poll over a thousand people. And you won't see very many polls about states, let alone a state the size of Maine. That's 1,000 people. You can see that poll on two way TV and on the WIC website. And it has a horse race tide and then some really interesting data about people where people's reservations are about both Graham Platter and Susan Collins. And then why do qualitative, why do a focus group? A focus group gives you the voices. And whenever I do a focus group, even though it's only a few handful of people, I always come away with certain sentiments resonating in my head, certain thoughts that backed up often by the poll and also just make some solid sense and things that maybe you don't want to lock into and say, well, this is definitely true, but things to think about, things to monitor, things to think about going forward. It's only June, the election between Collins and Platner, assuming Platner stays on the ticket, is not until the fall. But this is an early look at

[Interviewer]

what Maine voters are thinking about.

[Host/Interviewer]

So as you watch it, you'll hear voices of folks who are going to vote for Platner, guy who's going to vote for cons, and some people who are really hedging. And you'll learn a lot not Just about the main race, people say, well, why focus on just one Senate race? It tells you a lot about the mood of the country, tells you about how people are thinking about outsiders, how people are thinking about Washington experience, how people are thinking about change and the need for change in the country right now through the eyes of some Mainers. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with five Maine voters about how they see the country, the Senate race and their lives. Courtesy of our friends at WIC and of two Ways. Watch it now.

[Interviewer]

Joining me now, five main voters who have different points of view about the Senate race. And we'll have a great conversation. Grateful to all of them for being here. Some, as you'll see, support Graham Platner, plan to vote for him, the Democrat. Some plan to vote for Senator Collins, the incumbent, or at least leaning that way. Thanks to all of you for being here. Appreciate it. I want to go around. Well, first we'll accentuate the positive and then the negative. Let's go around. Just tell me briefly, just a phrase, a sentence of one or two words. What's the best thing about Susan Collins as a senator?

[Host/Interviewer]

What's the thing about her as a

[Interviewer]

senator you think is best for Maine? Amy? Amy S. Mec.

[Amy C.]

Okay. I think, you know, the fact that she is, she's been a long standing senator is, you know, it's a good and a bad thing. Yeah, you know, I was very supportive,

[Interviewer]

but, but her experience and her influences. You're saying the best thing about it, right?

[Amy C.]

And she's, you know, important.

[Interviewer]

Y. What would you say?

[Zach]

Yeah, she's, she's been a senator for a while for, and she's been in Congress for a long time. So her, and she's on the, on many committee. I think she leads many committees. So it's, that's the hard thing that you want to lose as a senator.

[Interviewer]

Chris, what's the best thing about Senator Ton. As a senator for Maine?

[Chris]

I, I would have trouble coming up with anything. I apologize.

[Interviewer]

That's okay.

[Zach]

Charles, what's the best power?

[KFC Advertiser]

Power.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

And Amy? Yes. I know you're not the biggest fan, but what's a positive thing about her as a senator for you?

[Amy S.]

I mean, I guess she speaks in a professional, like, collegial manner, at least publicly. So.

[Interviewer]

Okay, now let's talk about negative.

[Host/Interviewer]

What's the drawback?

[Interviewer]

Thank you, Chris. What's the drawback? What's the thing about her center where you would rate if you were doing like a performance survey, you'd say that's, that's her Weakness. That's the thing you don't like about her as a senator for Maine. Amy C.

[Amy C.]

Well, I gotta say, I used to support her and I think that when she, it was her decision to support some of the justices that are on the Supreme Court right now that really turned me off from her.

[Interviewer]

Yep. So some of her votes you don't like, Zach, what would you say the thing about her it's least, least good as a senator?

[Zach]

Well, like, I'll admit, like, I'm a Republican, so I plan on supporting her, but overall, she's a very light Republican. Like, she, she, she's very Republican.

[Host/Interviewer]

Like.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you're so, so you see in her failure to be conservative enough would

[Zach]

be enough, I would think.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Charles, is the same answer for you?

[Charles]

No, no, not at all. I, I agree with Amy S's assessment that she speaks out both sides of her mouth and that she's, she's a independent when it, it doesn't matter is a coin, a phrase that's been coined recently. I, I, I respect her as a human being. I just, her last term of her voting has really frustrated me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Chris, what's the thing you, you like least about her as a senator?

[Chris]

I agree with Charles. Not just that she seems to vote like, pretty consistently with Trump, but when she doesn't, it seems like the only time she does that is when she knows that the Republicans already have. Yeah. The votes to pass. But I feel like she did, she voted against one of one or two of his really problematic nominees for something or other. When? Last year. But everything else, I, I can't think of a time when she's made a difference in a way that I agreed with.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And Amy, I know there's me S, I know there's a lot you don't like, but what would you put at the top of your list?

[Amy S.]

I, I would say the same thing that these folks have said, Chris and Charles, that she doesn't have, hasn't shown a backbone on issues that really matter. You know that. So she's not saying no to Trump when it'll make a difference. She's only saying no when it's inconsequential and that doesn't show courage.

[Interviewer]

Okay. One word.

[Chris]

She likes to say she's concerned.

[Host/Interviewer]

But one word to describe.

[Chris]

That's as far as it goes.

[Interviewer]

One word to describe her. Literally, just one word that your first reaction you think is Susan Collins. Zach.

[Zach]

Well, I guess for me, I'm just realistic.

[Interviewer]

Realistic. Okay. Chris.

[Chris]

Formative.

[Interviewer]

A formative is that. What you said.

[Chris]

Performative. I'm sorry?

[Interviewer]

Performative. Performative. Amy S.

[Amy S.]

Skip over me. I'm. I'm thinking of one word.

[Interviewer]

Charles.

[Charles]

Nice.

[Interviewer]

Nice. Amy C.

[Amy C.]

Constructive.

[Interviewer]

Constructive.

[Amy S.]

Amy S. Ungenuine.

[Interviewer]

Ungenuine. Okay. Raise your hand if you'd heard of Graham Platner before he became ascended candidate. Raise your hand if you'd heard of him or you knew him or you had any association with him. All right, so he's new to all of you. I'd like you to have a discussion amongst yourselves here. We'll start with Charles or start with Amy S. Rather. Graham Platner was never run for anything before, and he just won overwhelmingly a primary. He forced your current governor out of the race. He's obviously enjoying some political success both in the state and nationally. What accounts for that? What accounts for his popularity with at least main Democrats? Amy S. You start in on something?

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Sure.

[Amy S.]

I. I think people are just desperate for a change. Like, and so he represents a change, or he represented, like, a new way of doing things in politics that seemed like it could have promise, you know, some foundational intelligence with sort of representing like regular people in a way that wasn't just like the same resumes that we've seen and we've been disappointed by and yet seems like to have a certain level of intelligence and magnetism and the ability, like, to inspire.

[Interviewer]

Okay, great. What do others think?

[Charles]

Well, I think Amy's right and that Democrats are desperate, and Platner seems to be a personification of that desperation. It's not a new way of doing things. It's. It's just they're desperate. And here he came. I mean, I saw him. I liked him. I liked him a lot. I floated for Susan Collins every time she's ran since I've been in the state of Maine. When I heard his platform, I donated money to his campaign. And, you know, and a lot of the things came out about him, I

[Chris]

was like, oh, gee.

[Charles]

Oh. And I'm surprised. I mean, I'm really surprised that people that are registered as Democrats are still on board with them. But I can understand it. I'm an independent, and I'm looking at the guy and going, I. I want to vote for him, but I really want to vote for Susan Collins, too. I'm, like, really split, and I. He's the kind of guy that I. I could see myself having a beer after a softball game, but is he the kind of guy that's going to represent the entire state of Maine and Washington? I'm on the fence about that.

[Amy C.]

Can I address.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that, please.

[Amy C.]

You know, I agree that he is what people. You know, he's the change that. You know, that's what's driven him into this real huge popularity all of a sudden. But I also think that, you know, the ne. The negative stuff that's come out has been old. You know, they've had to dig back into stuff to find it. And the man serves four tours in Afghanistan or in the Middle east, and I just think that that really can mess people up. And the fact that he has worked so hard to try and, you know, address it and talk about it and be open about it, really, you know, I admire that.

[Zach]

Chris.

[Interviewer]

Chris, go ahead.

[Chris]

Yeah, that.

[KFC Advertiser]

That.

[Chris]

That was my impression, too, that, I mean, not only, like everybody else has said that the Democrats are pretty desperate for somebody who's actually gonna be able to vigorously run a campaign against Susan Collins, which I can't recall happening since I've lived here. I can't recall by name any. Any competitor she's had. But then, yeah, even some of the. Some of the stuff that has. That has come out, he at least has sort of owned it and said, yeah, I had, you know, ptsd. I was going through treatment for whatever. It's. It's still not great. I mean, anything that he said, obviously, but it's. At least he. He didn't claim that his. His accounts were hacked or that.

[Zach]

Right.

[Chris]

It was taken out of context or anything like that. So at least I feel like people think. Or my impression, I guess, is that a lot of people think that he's at least being straightforward, even if they don't agree with what he's saying.

[Interviewer]

Go ahead. Go ahead, Charles.

[Charles]

I just wish that it wasn't the ptsd. You know, I was a veteran. I am a veteran. I went overseas and I fought in the wars, and, you know, I do not use it as. You know. You know, if I said something back then, which I did, then I own it. You know, I apologize.

[Venmo Advertiser]

I'm not.

[Amy C.]

I think he's only.

[Charles]

I would rather that he said, yeah, I said it and I did it, but it wasn't because of my ptsd. It's because I was with a group of people that we all did that kind of stuff. And, you know, I. Looking back on it, I wish I'd done something different, but I didn't and just own it instead of saying it with my ptsd.

[Interviewer]

Charles, thank you.

[Chris]

I'm sorry.

[Interviewer]

Go ahead, Chris.

[Zach]

Chris.

[Interviewer]

And the name.

[Chris]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

Thank you for your service. Charles. Go ahead, Chris.

[Chris]

No, I just wanted to. I, I was in no way suggesting that somebody who has PTSD is like, only their, their condition or that it makes them somebody. They're not anything like that.

[Interviewer]

Zach, I know you're not, you're not a Platner fan.

[Zach]

No, I, I'm not.

[Interviewer]

But explain.

[Zach]

But explain the hell out of me.

[Interviewer]

Actually, we'll get to that. But, but just explain your fellow Mainers who do support, Support him. What do you, what do you think's motivating them?

[Zach]

I, I think he's the, as everyone else has been saying, like, he's the Democrats. He's the change that they see and it's the desperation for change. That's what I see.

[Interviewer]

You've all talked about the desperation of change, the intense longing for change. What needs to change? When you, when you think again, not necessarily for yourself, but for your fellow Mainers who are considering voting for him or did vote for him in the primary, what is it? Is it. Are there specific things that need to change? He talks about, for instance, special interests, powerful interests, controlling, talks about healthcare. Do you think it's about policy specifics? If so, what are they? Or is it more just a sense that things are off track and let's just elect someone unorthodox to get change? AMY S. Which would you say it is, and if it is?

[Amy S.]

I mean, I would say that my, the biggest thing that I think needs to be changed is that the Congress needs to, you know, that the Democrats need to control Congress. And I think for me, that's like a primary concern. And I am not a Platner fan. I had concerns about him since he sort of came on the stage, I guess I saw him like last spring, like over a year ago now, and I was, like, very skeptical about him from the get go. But I just think that the just intense need to challenge what's going on in Washington today with the Trump administration and the, the sort. The risk to our democratic form of government is such a priority for me that I think we just need. That we need to try to get Congress controlled by not Trump's party and I guess just looking forward towards leadership. I think about my children who are young adults and just really like, we need to do this differently and we need to have leaders coming up that are younger and that are inspiring and that are different and are going to, you know, take things in a, hopefully a better direction.

[Interviewer]

Okay, what do other people think? What's the change the Mainers are looking for who are attracted to his candidacy?

[Amy C.]

I think it's age. You know, I really am feeling that it's time to get all of these old people over 70 shouldn't be running for office. It's, you know, time to bring in some people that are younger, that are going to be leading our country in the future, because it's not the same as it was in 1950.

[Zach]

I can agree with you on that. On that, Amy. Like, I would like Congress as a whole to be younger, not have everyone in their 80s and 90s.

[Chris]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So so far it's been about. It's been about control of Congress, been about age and kind of new generation of leadership. Are there issues that you think he's addressing? Again, it doesn't necessarily be for you, but you think about his popularity in Maine overall. Are there issues. Healthcare was mentioned earlier. Is that an issue where you think people want fundamental change? Is it about powerful special interest? Does anybody sense any issues that are really working for him in terms of the concept of change?

[Amy C.]

I think that, you know, yeah, I'm

[Chris]

hard pressed to think of it.

[Amy C.]

Yeah, I do think that, you know, trying to do grassroots campaigns and keep big money out of, you know, I think that's something that he's really promoting, which I agree with. And, you know, it is, as I said before, health care is my number one issue. And the, you know, I didn't want

[Host/Interviewer]

to do this at the very.

[Interviewer]

Sorry. I didn't want to do this at the very beginning, but I want to do it now. I want to get a sense of where everybody's thinking about voting. Just say if you're solid for your candidate or leaning or undecided, basically be the three choices. Solid for Collins or Platner. Leaning for Collins or Platner or truly undecided.

[Amy C.]

AMY C. I'm leaning towards Platner.

[Interviewer]

Leaning towards Platner. Zach.

[Zach]

I'm solid for Collins.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Chris.

[Chris]

Solid for Platner.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Amy S.]

Amy S. Solid for Platner. With my nose plugged.

[Interviewer]

Charles.

[Charles]

Truly undecided.

[Interviewer]

Really undecided. Okay. I should say we had one more participant who was supposed to be here, unfortunately couldn't make it. We would have had a little bit more. A little bit more balance on that. But we have a great group here, so I couldn't be more interested in continuing. Thank you for all that. When. When the controversies have come up about Graham Platner and there's a range of them that you all are familiar with, the tattoo that he had, some of the things he wrote on social media about women and about racial things. And. And the latest accusations that have been raised about how he's treated women he's been in relationships with

[Amy C.]

for.

[Interviewer]

Obviously, much of this was known before the primary. For many Mainers, these things are not disqualifying, as Amy and others have said. People are concerned about it, of course, but they're not disqualifying. And he's. The poll we did this week shows he's tied with Senator Collins despite these things. AMY C. How would you explain to people around the country who might be concerned about this, whatever party they're part of, how would you explain why Mainers in some cases are willing to accept or overlook these things? How would you explain that?

[Amy C.]

Well, again, I want to. Charles, I thank you for your service, and I'm not trying to suggest that PTSD is the only cause of these things. And I think you're right about. When you're hanging around with people that are like that, you're going to be like that. You're going to say things that, you know, pertinent, perhaps aren't really the way you feel. And even if they are, you know, people change over time and people learn from their mistakes. He's gotten that tattoo, you know, he's gotten removed or whatever, claims he didn't know what he was, you know, maybe he was drunk and got it done and just, you know, said oops. And I didn't know that. But whatever his reasons were for the past, we got to look at what he's doing in the present. And he's works hard. You know, he's been and, you know, he understands the culture in Maine, the oyster farmers and the, you know, the hard scrabble life that people live.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Let's go around and do for Graham Platner what we did for Center Collins first. Accentuating the positive. Regardless of whether you plan to vote for him or not, what's the most attractive thing to you about him as a senator? Not as a person, but if he were the senator for Maine, what would you say? Well, I'm glad he's a senator because of X about him. CHRIS

[Chris]

he certainly doesn't seem like he's gonna back down or be easily cowed on any issue that he's. He's arguing in, in favor of or against.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Charles.

[Charles]

Yeah. His lack of connection with big donors, you know, outside donors.

[Amy S.]

AMY S. I'd say that he's seems to be fighting for the rights of ordinary people and people who are deserving of someone who's fighting for them.

[Interviewer]

Great.

[Zach]

Zach I guess I'll just be his lack to or he's not, he doesn't want to. He won't back down on whatever issue he's going to stand up to.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And Amy, see,

[Amy C.]

yeah, I think he won't back down. I agree.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Amy C.]

I do think he speaks more for the people of men.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And now the, the least attractive thing, if you were elected in the fall, took office in January, what would, what would be your biggest concern about him as senator? The thing you'd say, well, I worried he won't, he won't do a good job for Main.

[Chris]

Chris I guess the flip side of the not backing down could also be what Charles was speaking of earlier, where I, I think it could easily, I apologize, I'm trying to put this into words while I'm thinking, but I think he could easily go off topic and just come become somebody who's more, more insulting than dignified or.

[Interviewer]

Yep, got it. That's well said.

[Chris]

Yeah. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

No, that's, again, it's well said. We all, we all get what you mean, Charles.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Charles]

His lack of experience. He's going to go in there, he's going to be around other experienced senators who know the procedures and how, how a bill is passed or how debates are conducted and, and committees are done. He has no experience at all of how to show up, to suit up, to show up, to get a particular position on any. He's going to be on the ground getting media, you know, attacking him. He's, he doesn't have, you know, secretaries and assistants and all that kind of stuff where every senator, other senator in the room is going to have years of experience. I'll take experience over strength anytime. But I got to tell you, like I said, I like him a lot. I've donated to his campaign. I've been to his rally. I've been to one of his rallies. I'm not sure I'm not going to vote for him because also, inexperience means he's going to have a hell of a lot of enthusiasm.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Amy, Amy has my biggest concern about him as a senator.

[Amy S.]

I don't totally, I, I really don't trust him. I, I, I worry that we don't really know who he is. And I think of Fetterman, that's, there's, you know, and there have been the comparisons to him, and I'm concerned that we don't know where he's going. And I think his recent immoral behavior, to me, it's like I'm not naive. It's like I look at the behavior that I have concerns about from 2023. It's like, that's very recent. Your conduct shows your character, and if you're not, you know, you're not doing anything until you're backed up against the wall by the press currently, while you're running, it's just very concerning.

[Zach]

ZACH I just see that he's going to be decisive, divisive and just going to be he's gonna be a loudmouth. He's not going to get anything done. He's just gonna be another one of the another congressman that's going to be loud on camera but not actually achieve anything.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Zach]

AMY because that's like the two type of centers you have, right?

[Interviewer]

AMY Biggest concern.

[Amy C.]

Well, I agree that his morality is a concern, but, you know, there's currently a cesspool in Washington as far as I'm concerned, as far as moral values go.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Amy C.]

And I don't think he says or does anything worse than the people that are already there. Yeah. You know, so while it may not be a good thing, I don't think he's unique.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. I'll go around and ask you the question of moral values. Has good moral values and would would live by a moral code in conducting the job as senator, would you say Collins would be would be stronger, Platner would be stronger, or you don't see a difference on moral values as it animates how they would conduct themselves as a senator?

[Amy S.]

AMY S. I mean, I how you conduct yourself as a senator versus the the decisions you make that affect people, that's a moral, that has a moral consequence to me.

[Interviewer]

Who would you rate higher on that, or would you say there's no difference?

[Amy S.]

I would rate Platner higher.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Amy C.]

CHRIS.

[Chris]

If you wouldn't mind coming back to me, I I'd like to hear what everybody else sure. CHARLES I'm having trouble formulating my thoughts.

[Charles]

CHARLES Susan Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Susan Collins. Okay.

[Zach]

ZACH Susan Collins.

[Interviewer]

Okay. AMY C.

[Amy C.]

I would have said Susan Collins, but I'm gonna say Graham Platner.

[Interviewer]

Okay, tell me why.

[Amy C.]

AMY Because I just really don't think that she supports the rights of women. You know, she has sat by and watched some really awful legislation go, and, you know, I can't support that.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Chris]

CHRIS yeah, that's I I guess Platner in term, just in terms of moral behavior being something that has a much wider effect than maybe your your personal life.

[Interviewer]

Okay, One word, one word to describe Grand Platter. Just one word to your first thought when you think Graham Platner. ZACH.

[Venmo Advertiser]

Oh,

[Zach]

Had the word, and then I just lost it.

[Interviewer]

All right, we'll come back to Amy C.

[Amy C.]

Pugnacious.

[Interviewer]

Pugnacious, Charles.

[Charles]

Angry.

[Interviewer]

Angry, Chris.

[Chris]

Pugnacious is a good one. I like that word, Zach.

[Zach]

Well, angry, basically what it was. I just meant, like, he's.

[Chris]

He.

[Zach]

He creates more division.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay, Amy. Feisty. Okay, show of hands.

[Host/Interviewer]

Graham Platner says he did not realize

[Interviewer]

that the tattoo he'd gotten was a Nazi symbol. Raise your hand if you believe him when he said that he didn't know. Raise your hand if you believe him. Okay. And raise. Just to clarify, raise your hand if you don't believe him. All right, Chris, you're undecided if you believe.

[Chris]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

[Charles]

You know, I got a bunch of tattoos all over my body. I was drunk when I got each and every one of them, and I know exactly what they mean.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Host/Interviewer]

We'll talk a little bit more about

[Interviewer]

some of these things, but I want to show you something. In my conversations with Democrats around the country, a lot of them have the position, not all of them by any means, but a lot of them say, I don't want Susan Collins to win, but I can't support Platner. I just can't support him. And I want to play you some video from a woman named Lori Watkins whose family lives in Maine. She spent a lot of time in the state. I asked her what she likes to do in Maine. She said, eat lobster and blueberries. So, you know, she's been there. Here's what Lori Watkins told me on two Way recently about Senator. Her view of Graham Platner. Play that, please.

[Lori Watkins]

This person will be making decisions that will affect policy is life and death. Policy affects people's lives, and Susan Collins is in that business. And apparently the voters of Maine feel that Graham Platner might be a better choice for them than their current situation with her. And that, to me, is striking to see, but it also is striking, and I agree that people are fed up right now. People want such change so badly that they're willing to let go of their character and their values to support somebody that I don't think they would have in the past. And that's what concerns me. And one thing I'll bring up is the quote that was on the view to J.D. vance. I would ask the same thing to Graham Platner, because this is my question. What are you willing to excuse in the name of power?

[Interviewer]

Lori Watkins worked twice for President Obama in his campaign. She's A. She's an ironclad Democrat. Amy asks, what would you say about what Laurie said? Basically, that anyone who supports platinum sacrificing their values.

[Amy S.]

And I just, I think it's, you're, you're weighing morality in two ways. You know, you're weighing the moral effect of your leadership, and then you're weighing like, the moral decisions you made. And I think the moral effect is what I see as worse if Collins remains in effect and the, you know, the way you live your life, I'm not happy with it, but it's less important to me, you know, and I, and, and I say this and acknowledging it as a liberal Democrat. So, you know, I come from, to it what you asked me from that orientation.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Amy C. How would you respond to Laurie and her really strong point of view?

[Amy C.]

Well, I think she, you know, she's right on a lot of points,

[Amy S.]

but

[Amy C.]

at this point in time, I feel like morality has just been erased from politics. And it's not, you know, we're not really considering it for anybody else. So, you know, I think we're now glam. He's the lesser of the two eagles, Chris.

[Chris]

I, I would say that it's with the Democrat, the Democratic Party as a whole, and a lot of progressives have been trying so long to come up with a perfect candidate and gotten nowhere or at least come up with people like Chuck Schumer, for instance, who, Carol, I know is a fine gentleman, but doesn't seem to accomplish much of anything. So I can, you know, like, like Amy said earlier, hold my nose a little bit in vote forum without feeling like I'm, you know, cutting myself off at the knees or my country?

[Interviewer]

How do you view this, this issue of so many of your fellow Mainers being willing to look past what Graham Platner is accused of and what he's done.

[Zach]

I still see it's a concern because honestly, I, I know not everything Trump tries to push through gets, gets pushed through that there's pushback even from the public inside and on some things. But even then, I'm, I'm one of those apparently I'm evil people who voted for Trump, because I do agree with a lot of the stuff that he's been doing, and I still do support him.

[Interviewer]

Let me ask you all of the accusations and, and, and acknowledged behavior on the part of Graham Platner. We've talked about the writings on Reddit, talked about the tattoos. Tattoo. We've talked about the accusations about how he's treated women. Which one bothers you? The most or which one you think gives you the greatest concern about both possibly voting for him or about having him represent Maine in Washington? AMY C. Which one and why bothers you the most?

[Amy C.]

I think maybe his attitude to women. You know, it seems like he's already shown that he doesn't necessarily respect women. But, you know, he's married, he's working really hard to get a family. So, you know, I'm hoping that that's going to make a difference in his life.

[Interviewer]

Okay. CHARLES which of the accusations or admitted behavior bothers you the most?

[Charles]

It's easy. It's his conduct towards his wife and his attitude towards his marriage. And you combine, I combine that with that is, you know, his speech when he won the nomination. He, he said, you know, I'm not, he said something I'm paraphrasing, but you can look in a speech where he says, I'm not a big man of faith, or, you know, I'm not sure I believe in God or something like that. But then he started talking about redemption. And, you know, I feel that when a person makes a commitment, especially being, you know, a Marine, when you make a commitment, you are committed. And if you can't, if I can't hold my commitment to my wife, I absolutely will. If something shiny is put in front of me, I'm going to abandon my constituents. So that goes for me, that goes to his character, and I'm trying to look over that, because I see the same thing with Susan Collins is that, you know, there was time and time and time again where she had stood up for women's rights, women's health, Medicare could have, you know, voted down Kavanaugh, and she didn't. And, you know, and that, that, that's really hard for me to, to forget. Right. But Platner's inability to hold his marital commitment to his wife speaks volumes of how he's going to hold his commitment to a state.

[Interviewer]

AMY S. What bothers you the most?

[Amy S.]

All of it. But I, I equally, but I'll say about the tattoo and, and I say this as someone who's Jewish, I don't believe it. And I, I, it feel like all of it gets to his truthfulness. And I, you know, I have concerns, but we have a choice of two, right? And you got to make a choice.

[Interviewer]

And so, Chris, which bothers you the most,

[Chris]

the lack of respect toward women? I would say that especially the, there was the accusation of, like, I don't think it was like, actually, like, physical abuse so much as it was something that really bordered on it in a way that I found upsetting.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Chris]

I can't remember. I can't remember the exact accusation and it's not something I don't think that he admitted. So that might be not what you're asking.

[Interviewer]

Right. Okay Zach, which, which accusation or acknowledged

[Zach]

behavior bothers you attitude towards women? That's the most troubling one that I find.

[Interviewer]

Do any of you find it mitigating that his wife Amy has been outspoken in the last couple weeks speaking publicly and saying we're working on our marriage. I'm so glad to be married to him. Does that mitigate it for any of you?

[Zach]

No.

[Amy C.]

Shows that they're trying to, you know, that he's working on it. I mean everybody has trouble in their marriages sometimes.

[Interviewer]

Charles, do you not find that persuasive that everybody. No. Why not?

[Charles]

No. Well I, I look at Mrs. Trump, our first Lady. Anything she would say about redeeming qualities of her husband I would fall on deaf ears.

[Interviewer]

Okay, almost done folks. Just a few more questions. Again thank you for, for your participation. Great conversation.

[Host/Interviewer]

Let's start with Chris.

[Interviewer]

Chris, tell me who you think will win this race and tell me why. What? Who do you think will win and why?

[Chris]

My sense is Flatner. I still think even, even with all the controversies I think he's got a lot of fire behind him in a way that I just don't think. It's hard to muster up a whole lot of enthusiasm for Susan Collins at this point I would think you know, even if you respect her and you've been happy with her record it's not exciting.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Zach, who will win and why?

[Zach]

I think Colin's gonna, it's gonna win because I'm pretty sure she's still going to get all of the Republican vote like she normally does because she normally gets the Republican and then some of the independent. But I think it's gonna be a lot closer than it would than it would be than any other election that she's had because normally it should. She usually out blows it.

[Interviewer]

But Amy, who do you think is going to win and why? Oh I'm sorry Amy. Yes. My apologies.

[Amy S.]

Oh that's okay. I worry that it's going to be Collins. Yeah, tell me because she always seems to win.

[Interviewer]

Yeah Charles, who's gonna win and why?

[Charles]

Yeah, I think Collins is going to win. It's, I agree with everything Zach said. She'll carry maybe 50% of the independents, all the Republicans. She'll lose the Democrats but that's fine for her camp. It's just, you know, I, yeah, she's got a machine and she's got outside money and Platner doesn't. So he's going to come close.

[Amy C.]

AMY C. I think that Charles is right. I think that she's probably going to win. But as someone who has voted for her in the past as an independent, she didn't. She lost my vote, but I still think she's going to win.

[Interviewer]

Grateful to you all for participating. Look forward to seeing how this goes and we hope we can stay in touch with all five of you.

[Zach]

So thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Host/Interviewer]

There you have it, a very interesting conversation between five main voters and you can just tell they're not crazy. If you listen as you watch it, you can tell they're not crazy about Graham Platner. Even the ones who plan to vote for him, all of them have reservations about Susan Collins. So to some extent, as seen through their eyes, this is a race lesser of two evils. But some themes emerge from that that I think are pretty interesting. First of all, Donald Trump has had a huge impact on this race. It's part of the challenge for Susan Collins to separate herself from President Trump. Platner gets attacked by Donald Trump, but he's so much like Donald Trump circa 2016. It's a guy who is not experienced in elective politics, but who's basically saying to voters, if you want change, the best way to get change is to vote for somebody in a totally different mold. Someone who says, I'm going to go to Washington with two sticks of dynamite strapped to my legs and blow the place up and then we'll pick up the pieces and go from there. I think Platner clearly has vulnerability on these questions of defining him. Only one of them sort of believed this explanation about his Nazi tattoo. The others clearly thought he was lying. So Platter has an opportunity to reassure people, to show his heart. But also there's peril there because it clearly is a touch touchy subject for even the platinum voters. Collins has a clear problem as well, which is her long standing tenure in Washington. And of course, there's nothing she can do about that. She can't erase her votes for Brett Kavanaugh and other Trump nominees and she can't change her, her time in Washington. She's going to try to make a virtue of that. I love focus groups and, and I hope as you watched it, certain things struck you as well. They're just something about the, the, not just what people say, but how the

[Interviewer]

other people in the focus group react

[Host/Interviewer]

if you listen to it on a podcast, you missed out on that. But if you watch this on YouTube or elsewhere with video, you can see how people react to what their neighbors, what their fellow Mainers say. And really instructive. Really instructive. Again, grateful to my colleagues at 2way and at WIC and David Burrell for bringing that together and we hope to do more of it. I just love having in the same week both a poll and a focus group to really dig deep into how people are thinking and where the race stands. Grateful to you.

[Interviewer]

Thank you for being nexters.

[Host/Interviewer]

Thank you for being part of NextUp.

[Interviewer]

We'll see you soon. So you always know what's coming. Next up.

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