← Next Up with Mark Halperin
Next Up with Mark Halperin
Why Bernie Sanders Could Be the Next President, with Megyn Kelly
01:06:53
Mark Halperin's reported monologue takes on the biggest and most under-covered 2028 presidential campaign question: can Bernie Sanders overcome questions about his age and win the nomination? What would he need to do to silence the doubters, even as his movement continues to dominate the Democratic Party. Then, Mark is joined by Megyn Kelly to discuss the rise of socialism in America, anti-Israel sentiment, and the areas of growing frustration within the Republican Party. Megyn also weighs in on JD Vance vs. Marco Rubio, and why the VP has lost ground in some quarters. Acre Gold: Turn your pocket change into physical 24-karat gold and enter to win a limited-edition Hot Wheels gold bar at https://GetAcreGold.com/Mark Sewer Sentry: See how smart tech protects both the environment and your budget at https://www.sewersentry.com SelectQuote: Compare top‑rated life insurance options. Visit https://SelectQuote.com/mark to get the right coverage at the right price. Follow Next Up wit...
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Mark Halperin
welcome to NextUp everybody. Nexters from around the world, coast to coast here in America. I'm Mark Halpern, editor in chief of two Way and your host here for the next few minutes or so. Grateful to you for being part of being in the Nexter community. Stick around. Two great elements for you today. First, our guest is the great leader of our pack here at MK Media. Megan Kelly hosts the Megyn Kelly Show. Megan and I talk are going to talk about a bunch of stuff, including her views of some recent big events in American history, how she spends her summer and more. But before she joins us, my reported monologue it's king off of Tuesday's 8 for 28 segment and your responses to my segment your 8 for 28 Hate. Our special segment where I round up your reactions and comments and Questions about my 8 for 28 Democratic rankings for the most likely presidential nominees. Lots of you raised questions about a particular point, which is the point going to be the topic of my reported monologue today, which is about Bernie Sanders. A lot of you think he's just too old and I get it and we'll talk about it. But we're going to review some of your comments that have inspired me to take a deeper dive and to make a more robust case about Sanders 28. So read through your reactions and then my reported monologue. You'll see why I believe with increasing fervor that Bernie Sanders is not just possibly going to be one of the front runners, but may well win the Democratic nomination for president. So 8 for 28 hate. And my reported monologue on youngster Bernie Sanders is next up. So think about now the last 30 bucks that you spent. Maybe it was on a streaming subscription you don't even watch or a lunch you've already forgotten. That's $30 gone forever. Acre Gold allows you to turn that lost money into physical 24 karat Swiss gold. You pick a plan, your balance, bills and once you hit the price of a bar, they ship it straight to your front door. Real gold in your hand at your house. And over time, you're sitting on something that's been valuable since the dawn of civilization. Hey, and for you collectors out there, they just dropped the limited edition Hot Wheels collection. These are officially licensed by Mattel, strictly capped. And once they're gone, their history. While you're checking those out, claim your free entry to the Speed Club sweepstakes. They're giving away a 1 gram Hot Wheels gold bar plus a massive grand prize. This is really cool. The 10 gram 24 karat gold Hot Wheels bar. Both come in official collector packaging and they are up for grabs right now. Start stacking for just $30 at getacregold.com mark again, that's getacregold.com/mark. Go on and subscribe today. All right, next up, everybody, your reaction to my 8 for 28 rankings. Your 8 for 28 hate. All all on the same topic, Bernie Sanders, age. And then my reported monologue reviewing the whole thing. A more detailed look at Bernie Sanders and the age question than I've seen anywhere else. And we'll be proud to bring it to you. First, let's look at some of the 8 for 28 hate. All of you think Bernie. Almost all of you think I'm nuts. Here's Darren Morris. Darren Morris 191 on Twitter. Bernie is too old and unwilling to work that hard. He is the same speech he's repeated for the past 20 years. If he runs, it's only to get the DNC to buy him another house. All right, Darren, I'm going to convince you otherwise. Same with Anne on Twitter. Get Real Girl. At Get Real Girl, she says he'll be 86 years old in 2028. Come on, don't be ridiculous. It's beneath you. Again, a lot of skepticism. Dave V15 Dave Borland on Twitter breaks down the numbers and this is pretty compelling. How old will be Bernie Sanders won't be the nominee. He says he'll be a vital kingmaker and shaper of the race. Sure. And Dave breaks it down on election day in 2028, Bernie would be 87 years old. 87 on inauguration day, end of his first term, 91 years old. And if he served the second term, and don't, don't, don't mistake. I don't think he's going to serve a second term. He'd be 95. Okay, these are all very compelling. And I've said, as I said in the monologue last week or on Tuesday, this is the big strike Against Bernie. We got to take it head on as, as, as a reporter. Got to take it head on. Byron York, great conservative writer. He looked at my monologue and he said this in this video. Mark Halperin almost convinces me that Bernie Sanders will be the 2028 Democratic presidential nominee. Doesn't ignore the age problem, just argues that progressives will be extremely strong in the party. But in my humble opinion, the age problem will trump everything else. On election day 2028, Bernie will be 87 years old, 91 at the end of first term. I just do not believe the system will go from two octogenarian presidents to a non aggressive kitchenarian president. Byron, I hear you. And I responded to Byron on X and I said, let me try to convince you. And so that's what I'm going to do today. 87 is old. 87 is old. And, and I'm going to explain to you how I think Bernie could get around that. I keep telling people, everybody's got a challenge. Most of them have a bunch too inexperienced, bad record as governor, Jewish, a lot of. A lot of everybody. Buttigieg. When black vote, people say, all true. Bernie's got one big problem. And then I say to people after that, tell me his other problems again, as, as always with the rankings winning the nomination, it's not about can he win a general election, although we'll get to that eventually, I'm sure. So what's the case for Bernie? Separate from the age question. And again, bear with me, I'll get to the age question in great detail. Bernie's often left out of polls of the race, national polls and key state polls. I don't really know why that is. He's been no more definitive, in fact, in many cases less definitive than some of the others about whether he'll run. And so there's very limited data when he is polled. I'll confess he's not doing that well. He's doing less well than I would think. But I believe that's because people are not thinking he's going to run. Okay. I believe he'd be very strong if he ran. Why is that? Primary reason. There's a difference between a movement and a campaign. You can win the presidency and a presidential nomination with a campaign. Joe Biden, great example. He didn't lead a movement, but Barack Obama led a movement and Donald Trump led a movement. And they have won four of the last five presidential races. It's stronger. Movement is stronger than a campaign. And not only does Bernie lead a movement, he leaves one of the two vibrant movements in America today, along with maga, the Democratic socialist movement, he's singularly the leader of that movement. The other people who are part of it are part of the pack, part of, maybe part of the expanded leadership. But Bernie is the singular leader of it. And Bernie is synonymous in his long held beliefs and his current advocacy for issues that are emotionally resonant for tens of millions of Americans. Medicare for all, limit on foreign wars, limit on special interest money, an anti establishment posture, Change the status quo. That's it. I mean, that's the, that's the heart of why, why I say Sanders can win because that wing of the party that believes in all those things, that's ascendant. We've talked about it here many times. I talk about it on other forums as well, in two way and elsewhere. That movement, Sanders would have been the nominee on the strength of that movement in 2016. We've talked about that. Taken from him by the Democratic establishment. 2020 would have been the nominee taken from him by the, from him, by him at the last minute by the Democratic establishment. 24. He can't run because there's an incumbent. So is that movement stronger or less strong within the Democratic Party than it was in 2016 and 2020? I would argue substantially stronger. How do we know that? We see it in the polling data of what people in the Democratic Party believe it. We see it in the election. Nomination of socialist candidates and Democratic socialist candidates and Mondami backed candidates and Sanders backed candidates around the country. Graham Platner may be out of the race in Maine, but look at the strength of Graham Platner overwhelmingly winning a Democratic primary for Senate against the popular Democratic governor, establishment creature. So I could go on and on about this, but I've talked about it before and it's not my main topic today. My main topic is taking on the age and health issue. But man, oh man, this guy is the leader of the movement that animates the party. Now people say, well, of course Sanders doesn't want to run. He's too old. And, and if you, if you carelessly read Bernie's responses when he's been asked, might you run? You'd say, well, he's taking himself out. Listen closely. There are two of the recent times Bernie's been asked, might you run in 2028? And you know, they say Sherman esque means absolutely if nominated. If nominated, I will not serve. If elected, I will not serve. If nominated, I will not run. He's nothing like that. Here's Bernie Sanders Playing down but not ruling out the concept of running. Here he is on CNN in 2000, last year. This is S7, please.
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Megyn Kelly
I watched you tonight. I've watched you for a very, very long time. You're obviously still full of vigor and intensity for, for the things that you're passionate about and have been for decades. Is there another presidential run in you?
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Bernie Sanders
Oh, God, let's not worry about that. I am going to be 84 years of age next month, as a matter of fact. So I think that speaks for itself right now. What is more important in my view and I want to see obviously the most progressive candidate that we can have.
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Mark Halperin
Let's not worry about that. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, that is not a denial. Here he is earlier this year in June at the National Press Club, asked about Ronnie S6, please.
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Megyn Kelly
That's what I'm hearing.
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Mark Halperin
I've covered your campaigns in 16 and 20. I'm hearing from some of your allies, they would like to see you do
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Bernie Sanders
it again because they want youthful vigor in the White House. That's what they want. We're tired of these 30 and 40 year old people. What we really need are 80 year olds running the country. But I suspect that's not going to happen.
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Mark Halperin
Why not?
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Bernie Sanders
I know I look like I'm 30, I am not. But that's that.
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Mark Halperin
Let's not worry about that. And then he says, I expect that's not going to happen, ladies and gentlemen. I can tell you from my reporting, the man is open to running and he sees that there needs to be from his point of view, a Democratic socialist nominee and president. And I believe he's going to warm to this even more because the other prospects, two of whom are on my list of 8 for 28, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Ro Khanna, they're, they're, they're foot soldiers in Sanders army, but they're not the leader. Okay, so posit that the Democratic socialists are gonna have a very strong opportunity to nominate someone. Let's posit that Sanders is open to it. Let's talk about the age issue. Okay? Here's all the reasons why the age issue is, is a real problem. First, I'm gonna lay down that first of all, look at this poll. A6, this Pew Research poll from 2023. And of course there's been a lot of polling lately because of Biden and Trump on age. Who, what's the ideal age for a president to be 70 or older? 3% say that's the ideal age. And you can see that it doesn't vary much by age, although older Americans are more likely to prefer an older president, but not this old. So it breaks down. You can see if you're watching on video, in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s and the 60s and the 70s. The most common answer is 50s and 60s. That's the most popular. The least popular is in the 30s, but in the 70s. Okay. And this doesn't vary by party. A seven Republicans and Democrats very similar. If you're a Republican or lean Republican. Ideal age for someone in their. In their. Is in their 70s is 3% identical for Democrats. So in general, the polling is quite clear. No one thinks that's an ideal age. Someone Sanders age. Okay. In addition, anybody in their 70s, rare, rare exceptions. Is going to have health issues. Bernie Sanders has disclosed a lot of health issues. I'll read you some of them. He had a heart attack in 2019. He had. He's got high cholesterol. He's got gout. He's got diverticular. You pronounce that? Never could. He had hernia, vocal cord, cystic. He's had a bunch of health issues. Okay, we'll get back to how he'll deal with that or how he could deal with that if he ran. Here's something interesting I didn't know until we dug into this. Bernie Sanders parents. His dad, Elias Ben Yehuda Sanders, died at the age of 57. 57. Younger than, of course, in Sanders is now. Cause of death has not been widely publicized. I'll be looking into that more. But it said that he lived a highly strenuous life and suffered from severe depression after the death of his wife. Bernie was 20 when his dad died and he was 19 when his mom died. His mom was 46 when she died following a failed second heart surgery. She had chronic heart problems stemming from rheumatic fever she contracted as a child. So if you're looking at Bernie's parents and their life history, you'd say, well, that's not great news. Parents both dying before they were 60. He's got one brother. We'll get back to his brother. What, what doctors say about somebody in the abstract. And Bernie has. Bernie Sanders age. Everybody's different right there. You know, my dad, who's been on the program, is 88. He's, he's, he's got, he's got high mental faculties in good health. Everybody's different. What happens to older people? Risk of dementia, progressive physical and cognitive decline. All these things. A president serving from the age they were 87 to 91 would be an age range where doctors say dementia and frailty become much more common. We all know this. We all know as you get older, these things become much more common. So what can we say about Bernie Sanders at his age? Is he defying now? No guarantee he'd continue. He could take a turn. But is he defined now? What's typical of people his age? Right. 87 years old. Now, here's his brother. His brother Larry Sanders is 91. Okay, Larry Sanders at 91. This is Larry Sanders a couple years ago. 89 years old. Here's Larry Sanders at 89. He lives in England. He was on a British talk show. He works at the Parliament. Here's Larry Sanders. 89. S8, please.
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Bernie Sanders
When you look at how they removed Bernie Sanders from the primaries in 2016 and shunted Joe Biden from their ticket
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Mark Halperin
this summer, Larry, this is not his brother. That's his brother.
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Bernie Sanders
Do they have a democracy problem? The United States has a democracy problem. They didn't remove Bernie from. They opposed him. They fought him tooth and nail, and they made a terrible mistake and chose the person who was going to lose the election. Shunting Joe Biden from the ticket this summer, I think is just a sense if he'd been ill or if he. Whatever, you expect that person not to run for president. And I think Biden looking at his performances was not.
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Mark Halperin
Well, okay, could Larry and Bernie lose it tomorrow? They could, but that guy, his brother, unlike the parents who died young, that guy looks like to be in great shape. So the first step, if Sanders wants to run, and again, he's only going to run if he wants to run. The first step is he's got to show people that he's vigorous, that he's like his brother. He's got it together. I've showed you this clip before, but I can't show it to you enough. This is from May of this year. S4. This is Bernie Sanders shooting baskets. And again, I'm so sorry for those of you listening to the podcast version, because here he is, hits a jumper, goes around the horn, a guy feeds him the ball, hits another jumper, rotates around, hits another jumper. Now, these aren't three pointers, ladies and gentlemen, but these are not layups. And he's moving around. He's got Brooklyn form, I call it. Okay, so one. One thing he could do to dispel concerns is to show Viga. Here's Bernie Sanders. This is from different rallies from this year. Again, this is this year showing Vega S5, please.
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Bernie Sanders
All over this country, working people are hurting. And they're asking themselves a simple question. Does anybody in Washington know that I am alive? All over this country, working people, including Republicans, understand that the economy is rigged, that the campaign finance system is corrupt, that in fact, we need a political revolution solution. But do you know what the most significant addiction crisis in America is today? It is the greed of the billionaire class.
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Mark Halperin
This man has a massive email list and texting list. He's got people in the Democratic state parties all over the country for him. He has experience running for president, and he can present like that if he runs with a reach that no one else can match. His team is great at making videos, too. He can also say, look, maybe Biden was a problem, maybe Trump was a problem, but other world leaders have been in their 80s and they, some of them have done quite well. Here's. Here's a picture of some world leaders. Now, not everybody on this list is going to be a hero to you. Fidel Castro and Deng xiaoping, Nelson Mandela, 80. Winston Churchill, 80. Okay? Others you see on there, people have governed this late, and they can say that. They can say, age comes with experience comes with wisdom. Okay? Now, so step one is to just show vigor and to. And to make it clear that he's able to do this and to. And to say other people have done it. Step two, transparency. Okay? If Bernie Sanders runs, what he'd need to do is he'd need to say, look, no president, no presidential candidate in history has been transparent enough about their health. None. And some just the opposite, like Joe Biden, John F. Kennedy, they've hidden stuff. Bernie Sanders, I think, would have to say, I will, I will be fully transparent about this. I will answer every question. I will have my doctors available to answer every question, every physical. You will get complete data. And if there's any indication I have an issue, we'll deal with it. I'll have to step down that commitment to transparency. So it's going to be nothing like what happened with Joe Biden, where they pretend there's not an issue where the doctor doesn't answer questions. I think that would go a long way. Again, we're only talking. I'm not talking about the general election. Now, to satisfy Democrats that it would be safe to nominate Bernie. Here's Bernie Sanders in 2019 after he had a medical incident, talking to CNN about his health.
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Bernie Sanders
Well, the reason I have been blessed with such good health throughout my entire life, to be honest with you, I've never gone to a cardiologist. I don't think, you know, before this event, and I didn't have one here in Burlington, so we found a very good cardiologist. They did a, you know, they looked at my heart. And what he says the recovery is going very, very well and we look forward to a full recovery. Well, what they told me is that, that we are on the road to a full recovery. There was some damage, but what happens is within the next month, we'll see what happens. But so far, so very good.
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Mark Halperin
It's almost a silly question to ask
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Megyn Kelly
how you're feeling because you said that you feel.
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Bernie Sanders
Sanjay, the God's truth is that if you're sitting there and you said, bernie, did you have a heart attack last week? I'd say, what are you talking about? I feel great. I. Not an ounce of pain. You know, I've been walking around a whole lot playing ball with the kids.
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Mark Halperin
So he has a heart attack. He does an interview and, and his tone was good. But he would need to be more forthcoming than that, I believe, to reassure people. He would need to, to really be clear with people about his past medical history from the beginning of the campaign. I think he would, he would be wise to do a full briefing at the start of the campaign. Here's my full medical history. Here are my doctors. Just lay it all out. If he's up to the job, show people. And then if anything happens during the campaign or as president, he would need to commit to do something again. We don't normally see Joe Biden's the extreme. Donald Trump admirably has released more, but still the doctors don't brief. He would need a full open kimono on his health and he'd need to pledge that. And then the last thing that I think is super key is the vp. Okay, because he could be in great health. He could be vigorous, but, but he, like any president, he could die or be incapacitated. And so the VP choice would be key because we'd need to be someone that people could say, again, we're just talking about winning the Democratic nomination now. This person could win the presidency and carry on the Sanders agenda. Okay, now, we've seen in the past some people on the left have picked running mates nobody's heard of. And it's hard to reassure that you're up to the job if nobody's heard of you. There are two people and they're the other two progressives, democratic socialist type candidates on my list of 8 for 28, who I believe Sanders could consider as his running mate. And I think one of Them would be stronger than the other for reassurance. The one who's better known, but I don't know, would reassure that much because of her age, primarily in her inexperience on the national stage, is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. They have great chemistry and widely known great affection for each other. She defers to him. They did their big tour together nationally. Here's a bit of the chemistry between Bernie Sanders and AOC. This S3, please.
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Bernie Sanders
Hey, everybody, I'm walking here in Washington, D.C. and who did I bump into? One of my favorite members of the United States States Congress, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez,
- [24:00]
Mark Halperin
one of my favorite senators.
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Bernie Sanders
Right. Anyhow, as everybody knows, we are now in a government shutdown. Republicans are attacking Alexandria, attacking me. Why didn't you vote for this clean CR to keep the government open?
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Megyn Kelly
Well, there's nothing clean about it, man.
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Mark Halperin
Again, for those of you who are listening and not watching, the physical affection between them is quite something. I've covered a lot of Bernie Sanders and some of aoc. You don't normally see him warm and fuzzy. You don't normally see him have that tactile feeling of closeness to another politician or frankly, to anybody. It's just not his style. Right. He's all about the issues, and yet with her, it really warms him up. I wouldn't rule out that he'd pick her. I just think the topic today is how can he reassure people about his age? And I don't know, because of her age and level of experience, I don't know that she'd be as reassuring as Ro Khanna. Ro Khanna has had, with the exception of Gavin Newsom, I think, the best year of anybody in improving their, their, their positioning to try to be the Democrat nominee on a range of issues. He has gotten a ton of visibility and he and Sanders are extremely close. They share a lot of advisors. Some of the people who would help run a Bernie Sanders campaign are positioning to help Ro Khanna now. But they've known each other a long time and kind of supported Sanders last time. He's got. He represents Silicon Valley. He's from Pennsylvania. He's not everybody's favorite. A lot of people in my life used to like him and have turned against him on Israel and Epstein and some other things. But he is a guy who is extremely smart, extremely ambitious, extremely well connected in the Democratic socialist movement and Sanders world. But he's also a guy who has ties to other parts of the party. He's got social media game and he's got great chemistry with Bernie Sanders. Here's some examples. S1 Please welcome everyone to the live stream with Senator Sanders. Senator Sanders, it's an honor to have you here. You walk from the Senate side all the way to the House and I'm out of breath.
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UnitedHealth Group Announcer
Not at all.
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Bernie Sanders
You're a runner.
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Mark Halperin
I know that. I saw you play basketball as well. So it's a pretty amazing thing that that has happened and that you've helped lead in the budget process. I mean, okay, here's another moment between the two of them. There's Ro Khan and Bernie Sanders in 2019.
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Bernie Sanders
S2, please, for inviting me to say a few words. And let me thank Ro Khan of Israel. Come on, hippie. Ro. Ro has done an exceptional job in the Congress, and he's doing a great job. Is one of our national co chairs gone all over the country. We appreciate that very much, Ro.
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Mark Halperin
Now, what would Ronna bring to the ticket besides reassurance to the progressives that they would have another progressive there to be a teammate of Bernie Sanders and replace him if need be. As I said, he's, he's from Pennsylvania originally. He's, he's, he's, he's, he's not white. Uh, he's Indian American. Uh, he's got diversity on religion, he's got diversity on, on ethnicity. He's also a multimillionaire, just like Bernie Sanders is now. And people would mock that. There'd be a lot of mocking of that. But those guys on their policy positions, on the issues that matter most to the progressive wing of the party, they walk the walk. They don't just talk the talk. They may be millionaires, but they are hugely credible with the progressive movement. And so again, in the end, is it possible Sanders won't run? Might he have a health issue between now and the, and 2028? He might. If, if he does run, though, can he overcome the age thing? Open disclosure on health, showing vigor, picking a running mate, maybe even early on to reassure people that there'll be somebody there. Maybe there's another name. But Roana and Bernie are very close, as you saw there. All that, to me adds up to this. You can't be the nominee without running. But I believe the vacuum, the pull for Sanders will be so strong, he wants to see the country have a socialist president. And if that's his goal, and you look not just at 2028, but beyond. And you say, of all the democratic socialists in the country, who's best positioned, who's best positioned to be president anytime soon? The answer is the leader of the movement. And then like anybody else running for president, you say, George Bush running for president, what's a barrier? His dad was president, and people, you know, didn't necessarily think warmly about his dad or didn't want a hereditary presidency. Think about Barack Obama, biggest strike against him. Inexperience. And would the country elect a black president? Donald Trump, inexperienced in every case. If you're a sophisticated person running for president and Bernie's run twice, he's sophisticated, you and your team sit down and you say, what's the biggest barrier to winning this nomination and how are we going to overcome it? For most candidates who have that thing, they say, I can't raise the money. Bernie can raise the money. The base doesn't necessarily like me. The base loves Bernie. I don't know the mechanics of running for president. Bernie knows the mechanics, right? So they would look down if he decides to run, they'd look down and say, well, what's our biggest problem? Concerns about age. And I've laid out for you what Democrats have said to me are the ways to address it. The ways to address it are to reassure people that he can do the job and that if he can't do the job, the movement will still be taken care of. That's my reported monologue. I'm sure that'll produce some converts, but maybe not. Let me know what you think. I'd love to know. Send me an email. Let me know what you think. Ken, Bernie Sanders and his team, just assume he decides to run. Can he win and overcome people's concerns about his age? Send me an email@nextupevilmaycaremedia.com that's nextupevilmaycaremedia.com Send me an email. Let me know what you think. Have I made a case to you? Have my sources made a case to you that yes, Bernie Sanders would have to overcome concerns about his age, but he can do it as well as anybody else in overcoming the concerns they'd have about them. Subscribe to NextUp if you haven't already, please do that. Go to the YouTube channel. Watch full episodes there, bonus contents there as well. Please. If you're an extra and you love the show and you haven't yet subscribed, please do that. That's@YouTube.com nextup halperin and if you listen to the program as a podcast, same thing I I'd love for you to consume it anywhere you want. But if you listen to it as a podcast, whatever podcast platform you use, make sure you've checked downloads to be turned on so you get every episode right away when it drops and the bonus content that we put on there too. If you subscribe, if you check downloads, you get all my new reports right when they drop. All right. Hope I convinced you. All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, next up is the great Megyn Kelly. Wide ranging conversation with Megan is next up.
- [31:43]
Bernie Sanders
Hey.
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Mark Halperin
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- [34:07]
Mark Halperin
Okay, everybody, next up, joining me now, our good friend, the major domo, the leader, the champion, the head, the hot down show, that topper, as they say, a variety of MK Media network. Megan Kelly is here. She hosts the Megyn Kelly Show. You can watch it every weekday 12 to 2 Eastern time on. Listen to it on SiriusXM triumph, and then listen to it or watch it on wherever you get your video podcast or your audio podcast or whatever this content is called. Megan, thank you for coming back.
- [34:36]
Megyn Kelly
Pleasure's mine, my friend.
- [34:37]
Mark Halperin
All right, here's something we have in common. We're both married to historians.
- [34:42]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [34:43]
Mark Halperin
Okay. And we both love. And we both love history. So we're going to start. I'm going to ask you some historical questions. Essay. Essay questions. No facts. Don't worry.
- [34:54]
Megyn Kelly
Can I phone a friend? You know the answer.
- [34:55]
Mark Halperin
You'll know all these. These are all crafted to your knowledge, because I realize I don't know your answers to these. And I'm super curious. And I learned from you and others. The best way to host a show is to ask things you're genuinely interested in. Tell us the story of how Donald Trump won the presidency in 2016. Not like 300 pages worth, but. But he was a reality TV host. A lot of people were skeptical. You know, you and I were amongst those who were less skeptical. But what were the confluence of factors that you would say allowed him to become president?
- [35:24]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I think the human middle finger was injected into the presidential race and changed everything. You know, he just didn't care about busting up anything. He had his vision of what was right for America. Reportedly, he had read Rick Santorum's book on the manufacturing crisis, and that was his message that he just beat like a drum. And he was very disciplined in that way, talking about bringing back jobs for the working class, talking about China, China, talking about Build the Wall. He had his applause lines and they worked for a reason. And he didn't buckle, he didn't bend. He was brash, he was rude, he was in your face. And he spoke for millions who hated the same people he hated and really gave voice to a boiling, just displeasure with Republican politics and politicians that had been out there for quite some time but hadn't been tapped into it got people off the couch who voted before. And before you knew it, there we were saying, omg, Donald Trump is actually going to be the next president.
- [36:25]
Mark Halperin
All right, I love that. That's the aperture here. Let's pull it back. And the question your answer raises, why were Republican voters and then in the general election, voters at large, why were they interested in that kind of candidate? What had happened leading up to 2016 that caused people to say, yeah, that's what we want. We want someone who will be a giant middle finger?
- [36:46]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I think free trade and their Softness on immigration are the top two that come to mind. I was at Fox News when Romney lost in 2012 and the Republican Party did a reassessment. What do we have to do in order to win voters? And the assessment led them to conclude they needed to create amnesty for millions of illegals. That's the road that Paul Ryan and others were going to go down. Like, what we need is to, you know, to get Hispanic voters, we're gonna have to create amnesty, which is exactly wrong. That's not what Hispanic voters wanted at. In fact, they can be some of the hardest line when it comes to holding the line at the border. And they just completely misread the base. And this is after years of free trade. Republicans were all about free trade. Free trade, free at nafta. Democrats too. They'd been sold out the manufacturing class by both parties, not to mention Republicans obsession with the Chamber of Commerce, which could be satisfied by using cheap labor through illegals. And it was all connected. And bit by bit, we eroded the working class and their jobs. And the rich, many of whom tend to be Republican, got richer and fatter and grosser. And Donald Trump came in and said, I've benefited from all of it, but the good news is I know how to kill it. I'm prepared to kill it all. They've all been begging on hand and knee in my office and I know their tricks and I'm prepared to use it all against them and to air all the dirty laundry so that this nonsense stops and people ate it up.
- [38:13]
Mark Halperin
All right, love all that. Now, how do you feel about historical novels that take at the moment of history, like Jeff Greenfield writes these and like you give like a little twist. Like it turns out Laurel and Hardy. Hardy was an alien. Do you like those, you like those historical novels? Here's my historical hypothetical. It's 2016 and the establishment of the party sees Trump, Trump wins it's election and they say, let's go back in time to 2014 and let's stop Trump. Let's stop him.
- [38:44]
Bernie Sanders
Let's, let's.
- [38:45]
Mark Halperin
With knowledge of how he wins the nomination, let's stop him. Who goes back in the time machine and what did they do? Or was he unstoppable?
- [38:53]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I don't think he was stoppable as a man, as a, as a candidate. I think the only way of stopping him would have been if they had changed themselves.
- [39:02]
Mark Halperin
Well, what, okay, so what did, so what could they have done to change themselves? In other words, how could they have blunted as you Just said, what could, what could, like John Kasich and Marco Rubio get in the time machine?
- [39:12]
Megyn Kelly
Not John Kasich.
- [39:13]
Mark Halperin
Well, you know what I mean. Who goes?
- [39:15]
Megyn Kelly
Somebody was there.
- [39:16]
Mark Halperin
Somebody who the establishment would have objected to less. Who could have co opted the MAGA movement and stopped Trump? And who would it have been?
- [39:24]
Megyn Kelly
It's a good question. I like Marco Rubio then. Wasn't the Marco Rubio of today. He wasn't as smooth. I knew him. I followed him on the campaign trail quite a few times. He was not, he was a little, I don't know, halting, a little bumpy. He was. Remember that State of the Union response, the water. So while he might come to mind, you got to remember how he was back then. John Kasich. No. Even Rick Santorum, who wrote the great book.
- [39:50]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [39:51]
Megyn Kelly
Was not Chris. Forgive me, Rick. Chris Christie, that likable Chris Christie. No. After Bridgegate, he was such a mess. The whole Bridgegate thing really brought him down. He handled it so poorly that he ruined his chances. And even though I liked him, I like all the ones that people hate. I don't know, no one's coming to mind because part of what was so appealing about Trump is how brash he was, how he wasn't afraid to drop an F bomb. I remember him calling Ted Cruz the P word. Mark Halperin, he is the P word at a rally, right? And it was like. But people kind of love it. Like that's real. You know, people talk like that. And he wasn't afraid. There wasn't somebody else like that. I, I don't know. But at least they could have blunted the criticisms he had of the Republican Party by not being all the things that he was about to say they were and maybe dial back the war machine a little.
- [40:41]
Mark Halperin
Right. I'm increasingly of the view that he was unstoppable. Like there was no one. Because anyone who would wanted to have stopped him, didn't understand what was happening. Even in the time machine, even with hindsight, even today. I love to ask Republicans today the question I asked you. Tell me this story. And most elected Republicans don't answer it as well as you do. Like, they still, they still don't get what happened to their party. Do you do Pilates at all?
- [41:06]
Megyn Kelly
No. But wait, I want to say something about this. They don't, they don't understand Trump. But if I had to like boil down Trump in a soundbite and like, why they'll never get it and why he was so unique and, you know, they'll never be another is. Fast forward now to the deposition that he gave in the E. Jean Carroll BS Rape case against him or civil case for sexual assault where he was being deposed by her lawyer who is an out lesbian who was cross examining Trump. And the tape was later released. And she says to him, she asked him about the Access Hollywood tape. Is it true that you believe celebrities can grab women by the p word and that they get away with it if they're a celebrity? They let you do it. And Trump answered now infamously, or I would say famously, yes, it's true. He said it's just always been that way since the dawn of time. Unfortunately, or fortunately,
- [42:05]
Mark Halperin
you're right, that, that is like the one sound bite that explains the whole thing. That is his worldview of men, women, society, history, the whole thing. The reason I ask you about Pilates is in Pilates, you breathe in through your nose and then you exhale at your mouth like you're blowing out candles. And that's what I always saw people do at the Trump rallies when he would use profanity. They would go and go, exhale like they can't help themselves but think it's funny. The other, the other historical thing, it's a mirror image that the Democrats can't explain. This is my new obsession. They stole the nomination from Bernie in 2016. Then in 2020, they basically stole it from him in a different way by stopping him right before Tuper Tuesday, by all getting together and, and Democrats, rather than examining why Bernie Sanders was a socialist who wasn't a member of the party, why he was able to win the nomination twice, basically they just kind of be like, phew, thank goodness that didn't happen. And then they moved on and now they're sowing the, the, the implications of their putting their head in the sand because now the party is being taken over by the socialists to some extent. And I believe, as I've talked about, Bernie Sanders could well be the nominee. Tell the story of why the Democratic Party now is moved further to the left. They had Barack Obama, a pretty liberal guy, president for eight years, and from the minute he left office, the Democratic Party has moved to the left to the point now where it's more progressive, more socialist than it's been in our lifetime. Tell that story. Why did the Democratic Party move that way?
- [43:36]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, I think it's a similar story because they've, they've, with a little bit of a different twist. They are ruled by elites who have absolutely no understanding of their base and the issues that their base is facing, which is economic pain. You know, they too, over on Team Blue, would like some sort of economic relief. Relief. And their betters, their moral betters at the top of their party who are all in on woke politics and it's Latin X or Latinx please, or you're a bad person, are doing absolutely nothing to help them in the wallet, in the pocketbook. And so when you're desperate, you're desperate to try something else, anything else, whether it's socialism or communism, and you add into that preexisting problem the hatred of Israel and you have a powder keg of possibility. And that's what we're seeing in New York and elsewhere as these democratic socialist candidates come out and their top issue is Israel. No more money to Israel. I won't be influenced by Israel. No more war on behalf of Israel, I promise. Which is a sea change within the country and the Democrat Party included. And on top of that, promising them all sorts of, you know, wonderful things that communism can never deliver and has never delivered. But it sounds good and new and fresh to young people in particular who are putting these people in office. And also white liberal elite rich people who just feel guilty over their success and think that they're better people if they just find a way to get rid of cops and incarceration and so on. And even though they'll never have to deal with the consequences of all that. So I think it's sort of this toxic combination of ignoring their base's problems and then becoming more and more ardently anti Israel in, in a country that continues to get involved in things like the Iran war, so that issues front and center, it's, it's not easy to ignore.
- [45:22]
Mark Halperin
Right, okay. The answer to this can be definitely yes, definitely no, or maybe if you had a candidate with the political skills of a great political athlete, Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, whoever. They were for Medicare for all, and they were for getting rid of US Military and economic aid to Israel, and they were for economic revitalization through raising taxes on the wealthy. Could that person be elected president? Again, no baggage. No, no, don't call themselves a socialist. They just call themselves a Democrat and they have those views. Could that person be elected president?
- [46:00]
Megyn Kelly
You throw in getting rid of the US Military. Did you mean to say that?
- [46:03]
Mark Halperin
Not the military, getting rid of US Military aid to Israel and economic aid to Israel.
- [46:08]
Megyn Kelly
So yes, yes, yes, that person could get elected. 100% that person could get elected. And by the way, they might, they might come up next election cycle and not call themselves a Democrat.
- [46:17]
Bernie Sanders
Right.
- [46:18]
Megyn Kelly
I mean that could happen from the Republican Party. I mean there's Tucker Carlson's out there talking about creating a third party right now. And there's, there is that whole horseshoe thing of like where the right and the left have met up here because they've just sort of moved away from their parties. Their critics would say they've become so extreme that they've met in the middle. I don't see it as that. They have similar issues. They're just both like fuck off to their main party platforms and that that thing could emerge. I don't know about the Medicare for All. That would sort of be the Democrat thing. But the anti Israel thing is shared by a whole bunch of Republicans, independents and Democrats now. And economic populism is the name of the game. If that's not your message going into 2028, you're probably going to lose.
- [46:58]
Bernie Sanders
Right.
- [46:59]
Mark Halperin
Or if you're from the elite, the establishment, you're probably going to lose. Right.
- [47:03]
Megyn Kelly
Their time has come and gone.
- [47:05]
Mark Halperin
Which is a better name for a party? Tuckered out or off?
- [47:09]
Megyn Kelly
The latter.
- [47:10]
Mark Halperin
Off. Okay.
- [47:10]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [47:11]
Mark Halperin
Not family friendly though. You'd have to maybe put the star in it for the, uh.
- [47:15]
Megyn Kelly
How about Brandon, Something like that.
- [47:17]
Mark Halperin
Let's go.
- [47:18]
Megyn Kelly
Euphemism.
- [47:19]
Mark Halperin
All right, explain this. This is, this is more recent history, but I want your explanation of this. Super keen to hear. First, I gotta make sure you agree with the premise. A Republican elites and conservative elites and members of Congress like Marco more than JD. Is that.
- [47:36]
Megyn Kelly
Is that 100 completely agree.
- [47:39]
Mark Halperin
Like 90 to 1? Like 90 to 10. Okay. It's so fascinating because I know people who love JD as do you, but, but everybody just loves Marco and, and, and JD is the. Whatever the opposite of beneficiary is of that. How did that happen? How did, how did Marco become the most beloved? Like, because early in the Trump administration, my reporting said everyone loved jd like he was beloved in the beginning and now he's like the redheaded stepchild. No offense to redheads or stepchildren.
- [48:07]
Megyn Kelly
Two words.
- [48:07]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [48:08]
Megyn Kelly
Foreign policy.
- [48:10]
Mark Halperin
Because he's doing the Iran stuff.
- [48:12]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's it. It's that Marco's a hawk and JD's a dove. I mean, sort of. Not really, but he's way more dovish than Marco is.
- [48:20]
Mark Halperin
But I thought dovish. I thought Dove was in.
- [48:23]
Megyn Kelly
Well, well, yeah, but not with the elites. The elites are hawkies. They're neocons. The elites in the Republican Party are all on team neocon or hawk, you know, to soften it a bit. And like my pals at National Review, I wouldn't describe as neocons, but they're definitely hawkish. And they are definitely. Except for like MBD on the Marco train and not the JD train.
- [48:44]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [48:44]
Megyn Kelly
Whereas I think, you know, the more sort of base, the working class base of the party, there are some hawks. They're not all, they're not all doves, but people who have to worry about paying their credit card bill are much more worried about that and their gas bill than they are about Israel. It's like, I don't, I only have a certain amount of bandwidth here.
- [49:04]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [49:05]
Megyn Kelly
And I think JD gets that and JD is of that class as well. You know, it's not like Marco was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but he's been in Washington a lot longer. He rubs the elbows a lot better. JD is a little bit more, you know, every song with that, with the Ukrainian Prime Minister Zelensky, and he was kind of in his face and I think people kind of like that. You know, it's like you either like that rough and tumble come from the street, punch somebody in the face attitude or you don't. And I think if you're a little bit more working class, blue collar, it appeals to you or come from that background. It certainly does appeal to me.
- [49:36]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [49:37]
Megyn Kelly
So there's a split now of the more hawkish elites and the working class base that has taken over the party. Really? I mean, we thought that that working class base had won with Trump's reelection in 2024. And we learned the hard way that Trump was much more aligned with the hawkish elites.
- [49:54]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [49:55]
Megyn Kelly
Than that base anticipated.
- [49:57]
Bernie Sanders
Right.
- [49:58]
Mark Halperin
I totally agree with you. That's the main reason. What about the fact that Marco's so damn funny? Is that part of it?
- [50:04]
Megyn Kelly
I mean, he's charming for sure. And, you know, you trust him. I did a long interview with him on foreign policy right after he took the job as Secretary of State and he just, he was dazzling. He can talk about anything and in a way that you get the first time, easy to understand, doesn't take himself too seriously, uses words that are easy to digest, gets up and down on a story in a way that's really digestible and consumable. So by the end of the exchange, you're like, oh, I like this guy. He didn't confuse me, he made sense. He didn't talk down to me, but he didn't talk over me either. He is charming and he is self deprecating and the memes about him have made him very likable. But the question is whether these anti neocons, the ones who hate the neocons within the Republican Party, could ever vote for him. Could they cross over? If it's down to those two, could they leave JD and vote for Marco and vice versa?
- [50:59]
Mark Halperin
It's never, it's never going to come down to those two.
- [51:02]
Megyn Kelly
It's not. Who's it going to come down to?
- [51:04]
Mark Halperin
Either JD Will run and everybody will support him or he won't and Marco will run and everybody will support him. I'm almost certain about this. They're not going to.
- [51:12]
Megyn Kelly
What if JD doesn't run and somebody like a Tulsi, a Joe Kent, even a Tucker tries to fill that space and run? Or a Massie.
- [51:23]
Mark Halperin
Trump. Trump will endorse Marco and that'll be it. Of all the money, all the, all the political support.
- [51:31]
Megyn Kelly
So you don't think, okay, so let's say that happens. Yeah, I'm very fascinated by this. And Marco gets the nomination. Now he's off to the general election and you've got some 18 to 22% of the Republican base that hates him, that not maybe him personally, but hates his politics and just. They are not going to vote for somebody who's going to back Israel.
- [51:51]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [51:52]
Megyn Kelly
Period. End of report. Period. And you have somebody come up on the other side who you just described Medicare for all, but they're not saying the really crazy shit like pack the Supreme Court and, you know, Puerto Rico becomes a state. You know, they're, they're within the lines. Yeah, but they're totally anti Israel. What does the 22% do on Team GOP?
- [52:13]
Mark Halperin
Well, first of all, I think Marco would pick a running mate who would, would soften on that issue, I think, and I think he could soften on that issue. And I don't think, I don't think that would be dispositive. I, I will say I try my hardest not to underestimate how big this issue is, but last night or a few nights ago, I guess, in the Michigan Senate debate, when Elsad said AIPAC literally like more than a dozen times in the debate, and no matter what the question was, he was like, well, AIPAC's horrible. So I, I remind myself daily, every morning I wake up, I thank my, thank for, thankful for my family, and I say, don't underestimate the power of Israel. The issue of Israel, vitally important, but I just don't know that it's going to be that dispositive for Rubio versus a Democrat if he's the nominee for those voters that would decide the election. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong.
- [53:01]
Megyn Kelly
Yeah. I'll give you a challenge on that. I just feel like maybe I'm just surrounded by it more, but like Israel's become such a pariah. I just think as a politician, if you're not ready to say no to AIPAC money and no to backing Israel in its next military endeavor, you're done.
- [53:16]
Mark Halperin
And couldn't he just say, I'm not going to take APAC money when I run for president?
- [53:20]
Megyn Kelly
No, it has to. You have to be able to sell it. Yeah, that's. I mean, if Marco Rubio said that, that base, that 22% would want to hear a lot more. They'd want to hear why.
- [53:28]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [53:29]
Megyn Kelly
You know, do you get it? Do you get why we've turned so much? You get why the Iran war was a bad idea? You know, all those things they're going to want to hear now. I'm not sure Marco Rubio or frankly, jd, even on that second question can sell it all that well.
- [53:42]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [53:42]
Megyn Kelly
I think JD's got more wiggle room, though, because he can at least say he didn't back it and he tried to stop it.
- [53:46]
Bernie Sanders
Right.
- [53:46]
Mark Halperin
Okay. All right, everybody stand by. We're going take a quick break. Next up, more with Megan Kelly right after this. Let's talk about life insurance. We all know we need it, but we keep putting it off because it feels pretty complicated, expensive, and like something that can wait. Well, stop waiting. Take care of it. Today with select quote, In just 15 minutes, high quality coverage can be secured to fit any lifestyle, any budget. And here's what makes Select Quote different. Their licensed insurance agents work for the consumer, not the insurance companies. Big difference. They compare options across multiple trusted carriers to find the right coverage at the absolute lowest price. Unlike other brokers who push policies that pay them the most, Select Quote agents actually shop around nearly 40 years of experience. Over 2 million families helped this. It's expertise he can trust. Even with health issues such as high blood pressure, diabetes or heart disease. Their agents, they know exactly which carriers will provide the very best rate for those in good health. Same day coverage is available with no medical exam required. Don't delay peace of mind right now. Selectquote they shop, you save. Get the right life insurance for you for less at selectquote.com, go to selectquote.com mark today to get started.
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- [55:39]
Mark Halperin
All right, next up, continue our conversation with the great Megyn Kelly. Move from Megan Kelly, historian, to Megan Kelly, media analyst. Who's doing stuff that's interesting besides the two of us? Who's doing stuff in media today that's interesting to you that you think is creative, innovative, portending of the future,
- [55:58]
Megyn Kelly
not
- [55:58]
Mark Halperin
in terms of content, but in terms of business model and, and using different platforms.
- [56:05]
Megyn Kelly
No one's coming to mind.
- [56:06]
Mark Halperin
All right, stump the band. What do you, what do you, what are you doing on TikTok? What are you doing on LinkedIn a lot?
- [56:13]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, nothing on LinkedIn. I've never been on LinkedIn. I'm not on LinkedIn and I don't really understand LinkedIn. All right, but a lot on TikTok. We're over there.
- [56:19]
Commercial Announcer
All right.
- [56:20]
Mark Halperin
What are your theories about what works over there for Megyn Kelly?
- [56:23]
Megyn Kelly
I think just honesty. You know, the young people today, they, if you try to, like, couch your words and all sorts of disclaimers, they are going to skip right past you. They are used to blunt force trauma in communications. And I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, shows like ours and yours can work over there, because we don't really dress up the message. We tell them what's real in the world of politics or culture. So, yeah, the young people want it straight. They don't want a bunch of bullshit, like legal words around it. And they want, I think, you know, color. They want fun. You know, you got to keep it snappy. There's a gazillion things that they could watch over there. Whereas I think older people are used to working for it more, though. They're more patient. As you build a point, the young people, like, get up and down on the point fast. Bye.
- [57:11]
Bernie Sanders
Right.
- [57:11]
Mark Halperin
See ya.
- [57:12]
Bernie Sanders
We're done.
- [57:13]
Mark Halperin
Legacy media. I watch our former colleagues still in legacy trying to do TikTok, and it's agony to watch, to watch what they're doing. Why can't someone at a legacy place just say, hire somebody and say work with this correspondent, work with this anchor and make them native to these platforms? What is it? Is it. What is it? What's in the, the Water or the, the dairy. The non dairy creamer and the coffee. What is it?
- [57:38]
Megyn Kelly
Well, in a way, Mark, what we've been doing for years now is. Gives us an advantage in this department because being that stilted news anchor doesn't work over here. We've had to shed that skin already. We're here, we are naked, you know, whereas they still have all those snake layers on them and so they can't. It cannot break through. It's. They've. They've been trained for decades not to be honest about themselves. So it's just like it's impossible. It takes years of practice to shed that skin and raw and expose yourself, warts and all, and then find out that you'll be okay doing that. That allows you to be the kind of communicator that's accessible and attractive on these forums. They'll never get there. It's actually very fun. Like Jake Tapper, he's not a bad person, but watching him try to do it is like, oh, it's so cringey, as the kids would say.
- [58:27]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And same with Brett. Brett is a great anchor, but I just. But, but I want, I want to be cloned and I want one clone to write a book about Trump. And then I want my other clones. I need a couple clones. I want to go into one of these places as a consultant and I want to spend three months trying to break them of these horrible habits and teach them how to be modern, because I think they could do it. Why not?
- [58:49]
Megyn Kelly
No, I disagree.
- [58:50]
Mark Halperin
It's too ingrained.
- [58:51]
Megyn Kelly
No, I disagree. And I love Brett, but he was always, you know, more serious. Like, he took himself more seriously and his delivery was more serious. That was his shtick. There's nothing wrong with. He's been very successful and he's a dear man and a friend, but that's who he is. Like, he can be fun. Brett can be fun. He's amazing. Go to a party, next thing you know, he's tickling the ivories and you find out he's got all sorts of skills you didn't know about. But on air, he's much more comfortable with the serious Brit Hume type Persona.
- [59:19]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [59:20]
Megyn Kelly
And that. You're just never going to change that about him. So, like, social media is not for him.
- [59:24]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. I mean, look, I agree with you. He's an incredibly lovely man. He's a talented man. He's a great broadcaster. And I watched him in China do a TikTok. I think it was a TikTok. Might have been Instagram. I Forget where it was. It was him, some robot making him his coffee or something. And I hoped when it was over it was AI, but it was real and it's just not his thing. But I feel I could coach him into it.
- [59:48]
Megyn Kelly
I don't think you could. In the same way, he's not going to be able to coach one of these influencers who has 20 million followers on Instagram into doing a great interview with President Zelensky. You know that we all have our skills.
- [60:01]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [60:01]
Mark Halperin
All right, I hear you. Summer, what's the, what's your cadence in summer? Is it different? Do you love summer? Hate summer.
- [60:08]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, I love it. I'm not a sun person. I'm really. It's a. It's funny because we go to the beach all summer and Jersey, baby. And I don't like the beach at all. I don't like the sand, I don't like sharks, I don't like the shore. I don't like the sea, I don't like the waves. So it's like, what am I doing here? But I do love the warmth. I love how relaxed everything is. I love that we don't have to get up at the crack of dawn and take our kids in the darkness to school while it's freezing and see our underested children then have to pile on facts about calculus. You know, it's like everyone's more relaxed and happier. I can squeeze in a nice, like 30 minute walk before the show as I listen to my research packets. It's not as, like tense. It's just the whole news cycle is a little bit more relaxed. You can do more culture and legal. Then when we get back, you know, the politics machine is going to ramp back up. It's more intense. So it's fun in its own way, but everything's just a little bit more, I don't know, second gear rather than, you know, something super high.
- [61:10]
Mark Halperin
You ever been to the New Jersey hall of Fame at the Xanadu? At. What's the name of the mall? Mall of the. What's a mall called? What's a giant mall called near the Paramus? No, no, the one near the Meadowlands called Xanadu.
- [61:22]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, another one. Another one that has a whole water park in it.
- [61:26]
Mark Halperin
It's got a water park, it's got a ski. It's got skiing.
- [61:28]
Megyn Kelly
A ski. A ski slope. Yeah. No, I haven't been there. I drive past.
- [61:32]
Mark Halperin
They have, they have the New Jersey hall of Fame in there.
- [61:35]
Megyn Kelly
Well, I don't think I'm going to make it just.
- [61:37]
Mark Halperin
Well, that's my question. That's my question is, can we launch a campaign to get you in there?
- [61:41]
Megyn Kelly
So not only am I not going to make it because I only spend the summers here, but I make way too much fun of New Jersey. I do it lovingly. The. I make fun of myself and my family.
- [61:49]
Mark Halperin
What do you make fun of? The traffic.
- [61:51]
Bernie Sanders
The.
- [61:52]
Megyn Kelly
There's so much. I mean, I'll give you the best example. I'm constantly mocking just like, you know, the dynamic of New Jersey. It's very like spiked hair and overly tan with the wife beater shirts on. That's not how everybody is. But that's the reputation of the Jersey Shore.
- [62:07]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [62:07]
Mark Halperin
Like a less classy Long Island.
- [62:09]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, yes. And Doug says we only brought property here so that I could mock it. But that's not true. I was mocking it long before we owned. But one time we were on the way past Newark to the Jersey Shore and you passed that disgusting, horrible power plant type thing.
- [62:24]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [62:24]
Megyn Kelly
And I wound up Googling like, what is that? And it took me down a rabbit hole and I got to a website that, that was called why do People Hate New Jersey? And the first entry asked the question, where do all the terrible things from New Jersey come from? And the first comment responded from people who have been there.
- [62:48]
Mark Halperin
That was just like on some. On some website called why I Hate New Jersey. Yes.
- [62:53]
Megyn Kelly
Anyway, I only say that to keep people out because I love it so much. I don't want it to be overrun like the terrible Hamptons. But I secretly love New Jersey and I love spending summers down here.
- [63:01]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. The mall is called the American Dream Mall.
- [63:04]
Megyn Kelly
Yes.
- [63:06]
Mark Halperin
I recommend the Jersey hall of Fame.
- [63:08]
Megyn Kelly
I do love a great water park.
- [63:10]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [63:11]
Megyn Kelly
Love.
- [63:11]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [63:13]
Megyn Kelly
Well, you're going down those shoots that you know are covered with feces and urine and you don't even care.
- [63:18]
Mark Halperin
It's humanity.
- [63:20]
Megyn Kelly
And if I live past today, I'll live forever.
- [63:22]
Mark Halperin
Do you have a favorite Jersey Shore boardwalk.
- [63:25]
Megyn Kelly
Oh, I mean Wildwood and Seaside Heights. I grew up going to Seaside Heights, which is. I mean, this is 1983 with the half shirt with the fringe that comes down below.
- [63:35]
Bernie Sanders
Yeah.
- [63:36]
Megyn Kelly
It said Wildwood or said Seaside Heights. And you know, you guys would cruise chicks and we'd cruise dudes. You know, that's where you just kind of hope to be noticed by one. But really, you're an awkward 13 year old. So like, even the 13 year old boys, they don't know what they're doing. So you're not gonna get cruised by anybody. You just feel hot. And that song, don't, don't you want me. You know, I can't believe it when I. That one's playing on the. And then you get go on the roller coaster and you feel like you're alive. Come on, that's big living.
- [64:05]
Mark Halperin
Mark, do you enforce a bedtime for the kids in summer?
- [64:10]
Megyn Kelly
No. No bedtime.
- [64:11]
Bernie Sanders
No.
- [64:12]
Mark Halperin
So how late we haven't been this summer and it's gotten a little out of control. Like, like I'm, I'm falling asleep and James is like, what's next? What's. Oh, no activity.
- [64:22]
Megyn Kelly
Well, they have to entertain themselves. I mean, we're not entertaining them, but. Yeah, no, no, no, no. But down here they're involved in like they sail and they play tennis and now my older two have jobs so like they've gotten past the point where they're going to stay up till two in the morning because they've realized the way you and I do. Yeah. If you stay up too late, you feel bad the next day.
- [64:40]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And are you like we were when you were a kid? Do you look at the calendar and think, oh my God, it's almost Labor Day and you'll be sad?
- [64:50]
Megyn Kelly
Yes. As soon as we hit July 4th, it feels like summer's over. Yeah, done. Meanwhile, you've just gotten started.
- [64:56]
Mark Halperin
Right.
- [64:56]
Megyn Kelly
The dreaded August 1st comes and you know, our schools don't start until Labor Day, so it's like you still have a whole. Like if somebody came to your kids in February and said, would you like five weeks off? They'd be in Shangri La. Somehow August 1st feels like it's all over. In any event, it's not all over. And I love August too. And in fact August can be really nice at the shore because all the college kids wind up going back to college very soon and the traffic lightens up and it gets an even more relaxed atmosphere. The way my husband who grew up coming down here tells me it used to be when he was a kid. I grew up playing in my parents backyard with a sprinkler. Mark Halperin. I didn't come from a silver spoon.
- [65:39]
Mark Halperin
Same thing with me. I never, never went anywhere. Do you have house guests? Are you pro or anti house guests?
- [65:45]
Megyn Kelly
We do, we do have house guests. Not too many, you know, you don't want too many.
- [65:50]
Mark Halperin
Do you take care of them or you tell them they're on their own?
- [65:53]
Megyn Kelly
All right. I have to admit the truth. I'm not a very good hostess, which I disclose to people very early on in Their, their stay.
- [66:00]
Mark Halperin
What are they, what are they on their own for? You got to get all their food by themselves or you do that for them?
- [66:04]
Megyn Kelly
No, I mean, if it's like friends, you know, we'll have meals together or I'll have somebody here. I'm not much of a cook, so I will cook occasionally or I'll have somebody cook. Just don't expect like a stupid little welcome basket in your guest bedroom. I don't know. You're lucky if I've managed to get in there with a fresh bar of soap in your shower before. Like that. I feel like Martha Stewart if I remember to.
- [66:28]
Mark Halperin
But, like, will you do the activities for them? You say, like today we're going to this place or they're on their own for that.
- [66:33]
Megyn Kelly
Down here you don't really have to do that. So if they, if they bring their kids, we'll just let them know. But here are the things you can do. Yeah, like, I definitely don't want to entertain somebody else's children, but like with the grown ups at this point, you know, our kids are all like young teens with the grown ups. Yeah, we'll, we'll arrange. You know, one of the things we do is we'll take the boat to Atlantic City. Now that's good times. What kind of boat is going there?
- [66:56]
Mark Halperin
Your own boat.
- [66:57]
Megyn Kelly
Park the boat. Doug has a boat. My husband has a boat.
- [67:00]
Commercial Announcer
Okay.
- [67:00]
Megyn Kelly
And you go in there, and if you call ahead, they'll let you dock up. And you go in there, you could spend just one hour. You just go in, you sit at the blackjack table. If you're there in the middle of the day, you can get 15 tables, which isn't so bad. You go to Vegas, 100 tables, you
- [67:14]
Mark Halperin
can cover your nut for about three months with some winnings.
- [67:17]
Megyn Kelly
Yes, yes. My brother who's. He lives in Atlanta, he came and he was doing the system where you, you bet your 15 bucks, and if you win, you let it ride. And then you just then, as he kept earning a lot, like, he would take away a couple, you know, just, just to hedge the bet. But the bet would keep growing to the point where we were at a $500 maximum table. He had to start taking money off because he was win. And in one hour he made a couple thousand bucks. He was so thrilled we got back on the boat. We're like, fan it out, fan it out. He fans it out. A huge gust comes along.
- [67:49]
UnitedHealth Group Announcer
No.
- [67:49]
Megyn Kelly
And you know, and he goes, too risky. But it was so fun.
- [67:54]
Mark Halperin
I thought you're gonna tell me the money blew off the boat. That was gonna be a good cinematic ending. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. And if I end up writing a history book based on the stuff you said, I'm gonna put you right in the acknowledgments.
- [68:06]
Megyn Kelly
I'm honored. I think you do better with my husband, but I'll take it. Mark Halpern, you always do a snazzy interview. And like you say, you do ask the questions nobody else has asked.
- [68:15]
Mark Halperin
That's what I try for every time, as you know. Megan, thank you. Great to have you on and great to see you.
- [68:20]
Megyn Kelly
See you soon.
- [68:20]
Mark Halperin
Megan's program again. Watch it. Listen to it every day live on Sirius XM or whenever you want. On demand. That's the way Life Works. It's Triumph 111 Sirius XM from 12 to noon, 12 to 2 Eastern or on demand, wherever you get your video podcast or your audio podcast. That's it for today's program. We'll be back on Tuesday. Thank you, Megan. Back on Tuesday. Brand new episode. Subscribe to Next up on YouTube. YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. So you always know what's coming. Next up.