Why These Men Are So Special

Summary

Next Up with Mark Halperin

Episode Title: Why These Men Are So Special

Release Date: June 18, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (B)
Guests: Leland Vittert (C), Morton Halperin (D), James Halperin

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Episode Overview

This Father's Day-themed episode explores the enduring, evolving impact of fatherhood through candid, emotional conversations. Mark Halperin interviews two generations of fathers: media anchor and author Leland Vittert, whose memoir chronicles the heroic journey of his own father raising a son with autism, and Mark’s own father, Morton Halperin, a renowned Washington policy figure. The discussions delve into the generational shifts in parenting, the challenges and hopes of being a good dad, and the deep, sometimes complicated, love that flows through these important relationships.

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Key Segments and Insights

1. Introduction & Setting the Theme

Timestamps: [01:02–04:23]

• Mark highlights the purpose of the episode: reflecting on fatherhood, sharing lessons, and exploring generational perspectives.
• He introduces the two main guests:
  • Leland Vittert: NewsNation chief Washington anchor, author of Born Lucky, memoir about his father’s love and their journey with autism.
  • Morton Halperin: Mark's own father, offering perspective on being a father and grandfather in a changing world.

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2. Leland Vittert on “Born Lucky”—Hope, Vulnerability & Parental Love

Timestamps: [04:23–22:57]

The Heart of the Memoir

• Leland summarizes his book's story:
  • His father's deep devotion when Leland was diagnosed with autism.
  • The emotional struggles (“my father...sitting there crying, a grown man by himself...he felt like the world had turned against his son” [C, 05:08]).
  • Message of hope for any family dealing with challenges, not just autism.
• He recalls how many fathers relate to his dad’s feelings of fear and being alone, revealing an often silent but powerful collective experience.

“There is a silent army of fathers who are all fighting this fight individually, collectively, together.” —Leland Vittert [06:08]

The Book’s Impact

• The book has led Leland into advocacy, connecting families facing similar struggles.
• Mark notes that Leland has become “something of a leader of the movement of autism awareness and allowing people to feel ok if they’re dealing with it” [09:45].
• Leland shares the positive and poignant reactions—from media appearances across the ideological spectrum to touching fan encounters (like a woman recognizing his father in a Michigan restaurant [12:11–13:19]).

“There is nothing more universal than a father’s love—or maybe a mother’s love, but a parental love.” —Leland Vittert [11:35]

Behind Publishing “Born Lucky”

• Leland recalls his father’s reluctance toward the book’s personal revelations:
  • Initially vetoed the manuscript for being “too hard for me. It makes me a hero. I’m not a hero. You can’t turn it in.” [C, 14:47]
  • Ultimately, his dad wrote an unedited afterword, encapsulating four decades of quiet dedication.

Advice for Dads

• Leland says the “best advice” isn’t his but his father’s:
  • “They are about love, they are about compassion and understanding, but they’re also about having standards... unbelievably selfless acts on a daily basis.” [16:46]
• On intervening with other parents:
  • He’s become less judgmental, focusing on kindness and subtle empathy rather than overt correction [19:04–19:42].
• Anecdote: Leland’s father taught social cues gently—using a discreet tap on his watch to signal when Leland spoke too much, then discussing lessons in private [19:42–20:49].

Emotional Moments & Legacy

• Mark asks what could make Leland cry in interviews; Leland shares a story where a priest asked about losing his parents, which “hit me like a baseball bat to the stomach.” [21:51]
• Leland acknowledges the role Mark has played in supporting and advising him.
• The segment closes with promotion of Born Lucky as an ideal Father’s Day gift and a tribute to the universal impact of narratives about parenthood [22:18–22:57].

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3. Generational Reflections: Morton Halperin on Being a Father and a Grandfather

Timestamps: [26:17–43:54]

Contrasting Eras of Fatherhood

• Morton reflects on becoming a father while very young (“I was in my 20s...I was teaching at Harvard” [27:07]) and soon after, juggling demanding jobs with family life.
• He explains the prevailing norm: fathers worked long hours; mothers raised the children. Thinking deeply about work-life balance was rare.

“It was sort of assumed to be the situation. The woman stayed at home and took care of the kids, and the father worked long hours to make enough money to support the family.” —Morton Halperin [27:46]

• Morton received no parenting advice from his father and couldn’t imagine that kind of conversation happening at the time.

Societal Change and Gender Roles

• Morton details the rigid gender roles of his generation—Harvard’s policies excluding women, separate faculty clubs, assumptions about caregiving [29:15].
• Mark marvels at the difference within a single generation, describing the abundance of contemporary advice for fathers.

On Grandparenting

• Morton discusses the challenges of being a grandfather at a distance—how to stay connected with grown grandchildren and find common ground, noting the extra difficulty compared to parenting his own children [32:06–33:39].

Morton’s Own Father

• Morton reflects that his father believed providing financially was the primary role of fatherhood, to the exclusion of offering advice or emotional support.

“He never talked to me almost about anything. I mean, certainly not, you know, obligation, how you should treat a woman, how you had babies—these are not topics that he discussed.” —Morton Halperin [34:57]

• He recalls the late-in-life reversal of care, as he became the caregiver for his aging parents, a transition for which he felt unprepared [36:46].

Personal Reflections and Advice

• Mark discusses the evolving relationship as adult sons begin supporting their fathers, noting both the gratitude and the awkwardness of this role reversal [38:58].
• Morton confides in the difficulty of accepting help from one’s children, wishing not to be a burden despite practical needs [39:26].
• Mark shares a family memory about Morton taking his sons to a Rolling Stones concert to illustrate making meaningful connections (and the generational clash of interests) [40:00–41:27].
• Morton offers high praise for Mark’s own attentive, engaged style of fatherhood [41:40].
• On the joys and challenges of fatherhood, Morton highlights pride in seeing his sons' integrity, and the enduring struggle to know his children’s inner worlds or when to intervene [42:47].
• His succinct advice to young dads:

“Make time for your sons and daughters. Try to understand what's motivating them. Recognize that they’re going to make choices different than you would make. And then your job is not to change their mind, but to make sure that they consider all the things they should consider in deciding what to do.” —Morton Halperin [43:19]

• Episode ends with Morton’s grandson James wishing everyone a happy Father’s Day [43:51].

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Notable Quotes

• “What I think is so interesting is that for almost every son, their father is a superhero or of one type or another. Mine certainly is.” —Leland Vittert [04:56]
• “There is a silent army of fathers who are all fighting this fight individually, collectively, together.” —Leland Vittert [06:08]
• “It’s changed his life because he’s really realized that sharing this story...he was scared about the response...And I think both of those have been obviously assuaged. He’s been quite warmed by the response.” —Leland Vittert, on his father’s reaction to the book [10:57]
• “I don't think if you had asked [my father], he would have said, ‘That's not my job. My job is to make sure we have enough money.’” —Morton Halperin [34:01]
• “The hardest thing [about being a dad] is not understanding what your child is concerned about—what’s really upsetting them, what’s really worrying them—and what, how they might do things that will set them off course.” —Morton Halperin [42:47]
• “Your job is not to change their mind, but to make sure that they consider all the things they should consider in deciding what to do.” —Morton Halperin [43:19]

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Memorable Moments & Emotional High Points

• Leland revealing his father’s private fears and nightly tears, and the “silent army” of similarly struggling dads [04:39–06:38].
• The deeply personal negotiation between Leland and his father over publishing the memoir, and the emotional relief when sharing its positive impact with others [14:47–16:46].
• Mark and Morton’s intergenerational exchange—comparing parenting philosophies, confronting the lack of emotional connection in previous generations, and candidly discussing the difficulty of asking for and accepting help as a parent ages [30:56–39:30].
• The affectionate, slightly humorous memory of a family Rolling Stones concert and generational cultural disconnect [40:00–41:27].
• Morton’s straightforward, compassionate guidance to a new generation of fathers [43:19].

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

• 01:02–04:23 | Episode Intro and Father's Day set-up
• 04:23–22:57 | Conversation with Leland Vittert (Born Lucky, the nature/impact of fatherly love, advice for dads)
• 26:17–43:54 | Conversation with Morton Halperin (Generational changes in parenting, being a grandfather, life transitions, advice)
• Highlighted emotional moments at [05:08], [12:11–13:19], and [14:47–16:46]
• Key fatherly advice at [16:46] (from Leland’s father) and [43:19] (from Morton Halperin)

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Final Impression

This episode is a heartfelt, multi-generational meditation on what it means to be a father—and how those meanings shift over time. Through Leland’s moving stories and Morton’s honest recollections, listeners get a sense of the burdens, joys, and responsibilities of fatherhood, as well as a testament to the enduring power of parental love. For anyone reflecting on family, or seeking wisdom about parenthood, this conversation is both reassuring and deeply inspiring.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome, everybody. Mark Kalperin here. Happy Father's Day. A bit early for those of you listening to the program soon after it drops. I'm Mark Kalperin, editor in chief of two Way and your guide to everything. Next up. And next up for me, Father's Day. I've always, of course, like a normal human, been interested in dads and parenthood. But ever since I had a son almost a decade ago, I've become especially interested in the question of how do you be a good dad? What's the common thread? And so special Father's Day episode for you today right here. First thing I said, who am I going to book for a Father's Day episode? And I thought, well, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for the ultimate dad, my dad. So in a moment, later in the program, you'll hear Morton H. Halpern, my dad. He's been on the program before, talking about national security as one of his areas of professional expertise. But today we'll talk about family, public service, the lessons he's learned over his life and career about being a dad, including how to balance work and family, which for his generation was a much different proposition than it is for mine. And looking forward to talking to my dad. But first, next up will be Leland Vitter. He's been here before, too. Good friend and News Nation chief Washington anchor, host of On Balance with Leland Vitter. And we'll take a deep dive into his book, one of the best books you'll ever read about a dad and his son called Born Lucky, a dedicated Father, a Grateful Son, and My Journey with Autism. We'll hear more from Leland about the impact his dad had on him as he writes about the book, but also what impact the book has had on the two of them and their relationship. So it's a Father's Day themed episode here. You won't want to miss a word of it. So take a quick break. And then next up, my pal Leland Vitter. Stay tuned. If you're 64 years or older, here's something worth knowing. Medicare has thousands of plans, but most people pick just one without ever seeing the full picture. Plenty of people will call telling you they've got something better. The question is, who can you trust? That's why I tell my audience about chapter they're the only Medicare advisors to compare every plan nationwide. Their advisors, they're not paid to push one plan over another. They look at your doctors, at your prescriptions, your priorities, and they show you what plan actually fits best for you. There's no cost, no obligation. Chapter will review your options in under 20 minutes. If you're already on the right plan, they'll tell you that. But if not, they'll help you switch to something better. Chapter has already saved my audience members thousands of dollars by helping them find new better plans. Call chapter. It's the advice I give to all my friends. Talk with a chapter advisor today. Call them at 262-454-0503. Call Chapter right now. 262-454-0503. All right, next up and joining me now, Leland Vitter, News Nation chief Washington anchor and host of On Balance with Leland Vitter airs every weeknight in America at 9 Eastern time. He's also the author of a book. He's been here to talk about it before. If you're interested in the relationship between fathers and sons on this Father's Day episode, I recommend to you Born Lucky, A Dedicated Father, Grateful Son and My Journey with Autism, a best selling book and well deserved. And it is an incredible story. Well told, Leland. Welcome back to NextUp.

[C]

Good to be here. Thank you, Mark.

[B]

Not everybody heard you the first time you were here and maybe, maybe it's possible. Despite your extremely well planned book tour, not everybody's heard the story of your book. So explain the role your father plays in Born Lucky and why it touched so many people.

[C]

Born Lucky is the story of my father adapting me to the world when I was diagnosed with autism. And it is a love story first and foremost. It is also hope for every family of a kid having a hard time. Every father of a kid, sort of no matter what they're dealing with. And these days everybody's dealing with something as ADHD or anxiety or the difficulties of growing up, physical disabilities. It is hope for every father and it is proof, as George Will said in the foreword of the Mountain Moving Power of Parental Love in this Father's Day. I think what's so interesting is that for almost every son, their father is a superhero or of one type or another. Mine certainly is. What I didn't know, Mark, is that my father, so many nights back home when I was growing up, was by himself in our living room on a blue couch in the dark. There were some picture windows, so it was dark outside. Just sitting there crying, a grown man by himself. My mom would come out and find him at one or two o' clock in the morning. He was crying because he felt like the world had turned against his son and against him. He would have just put me to bed. I would have spent a couple of hours myself crying and talking about the social and emotional and physical cruelty that I had endured at school, being bullied. And he would have taken that upon himself, put me to bed or said goodnight to me and walked downstairs. And that's what he was going through. And I think since the books come out and since your help in talking about it in the next up, in two way families that have embraced Born Lucky, we've heard from so many families that now say they don't feel alone. My dad certainly felt like he was alone and there he is not. There is a silent army of fathers who are all fighting this fight individually, collectively, together.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the paradox of, of these situations, which is every family has to deal with it alone in a sense that it's unique struggle. But the, but the reality is what makes people feel best, in my experience, if you're going through a family struggle, particularly if it involves health or kid, is to know other families are dealing with the same thing. And, and, and I know just. I didn't write the book. I didn't, I didn't. It's not my story. But I know just from having you on, I've heard from so many people who said, who said how inspiring it was, who talked about what it made them think about either their child or their parent who went through in a sense, again, every story is different, but the common through line is you'll do anything for Your kid. But when you're going up against society and all the challenges, the medical bills, ostracization by other kids, a school system and a medical system that may not be doing everything he possibly can, man. It's a test of a parent. And your dad, as well as any parent we know about, really passed it.

[C]

Yeah. And that's so true. What I think so interesting, and my dad wrote the afterword to Born Lucky is it's easy to say, well, you know, dad had all the answers. And he took a kid who was non verbal until he was more than three, who had big problems, as the woman who diagnosed me said, and took him into being a TV news anchor. So Born Lucky is not. How do you turn your autistic kid into being a TV news anchor? Mark When I was diagnosed, my parents had been told they needed to have me evaluated. So they took me to this medical office building. Linoleum floors, bad furniture, stale coffee. We've all been in those rooms. And you kind of smell the fear of the perspiration of people who have been in there. They waited. There were probably some old magazines to flip through because this was long before cell phones. And the woman brought me back and she said, he's got three big issues. He's got behavioral issues. If somebody looks at him the way he doesn't like, he'll turn around and slug them. So forget, you know, play dates or birthday parties or anything like that. I was completely socially isolated. I had big sensory issues. If I had on, you know, shoes I didn't like or a shirt or jacket, I would melt down in big learning disabilities. So I had what they call an IQ point spread. 20 point spread between the two halves of your IQ test is a learning disability. I had a 70 point spread. And she said it is very difficult to understand what's going on inside his mind. And what's interesting when you kind of look back is how it seems like my dad had all the answers. And certainly Born Lucky is a story of him devoting his life to me. He will tell you he did not and how scared he was through the whole process. And I think that is what has resonated with so many fathers who've written saying they don't feel alone. And the people who've talked to you is how scared he felt, is how scared so many fathers feel in dealing with whatever challenges their kids have.

[B]

I know at least four ways the book has changed your life. First of all, a bunch of people will say, wow, that handsome guy on TV can actually write so that's good. Number two, you've become something of a leader of the movement of autism awareness and allowing people to feel okay if they're dealing with it. Then number three and four kind of book, mirror images. One is, oh, people say, I didn't know Leland had autism. That explains why he's so rude to me sometimes. And then other people say, I can't believe Leland has autism because he's so polite and doesn't seem like he has autism at all.

[C]

So.

[B]

So those are four big changes for you. How's this book changed your dad's life? What impact has it had on your dad?

[C]

It's a great question. He still hates being called a hero, and he, as you know, hasn't done any interviews. You kindly invited him to come on and talk about.

[B]

I'm gonna get the first interview. I'm just not saying when it's gonna be.

[C]

Mark, I. I wish you a lot of luck in that. I'll put this way. I asked my dad for an interview about this book and he said no.

[B]

Yeah, but you never worked with Barbara Walters and Diane. Sorry. Two of the finest bookers in the history of television. So, again, I'll get the interview, but. All right, so it hasn't. It hasn't turned him into a media darling, and it hasn't caused him to say he's a hero. How has it impacted him, either internally or external?

[C]

I think the thing that has meant the most to him is I have shared with him every email and every letter and every social media post of families talking about how much this has meant to them and how they don't feel alone. And, you know, Mark, you talk about it all the time, but how divided America is. And I have been booked on every television network from Steve Bannon's war room to Joe Scarborough on msnbc. Everyone universally has thought it was an important message, a positive message, a message of hope. Almost always the host is, in one way or another, ending the interview in tears or tearing up. And that's because there is nothing more universal than a father's love or maybe our mother's love, but a parental love. And that, I think, is, number one, why it's resonated. And number two, I think it's changed his life because he's really realized that sharing this story, unlike before the book came out, when he was scared, he was scared about the response, and he was scared about sort of, would it mean anything. And I think both of those have been obviously assuaged. He's been quite warmed by the Response.

[B]

Obviously, people aren't going to recognize him because he's not out doing media, but do people. Is anybody recognized his name and said anything?

[D]

People.

[C]

Actually, it was interesting you asked that question. We were having dinner a couple of weeks ago in Northern Michigan, where our summer house is, where my mom and dad live. And I looked over at the table next to us where this small kind of lodge. It's called the Lodge. Probably 10 or 12 tables in this restaurant. Eight of them are full. Very casual northern Michigan cottage life, and big picture windows looking out on a golf course. And we're sitting there, very sort of very pedestrian place. And I looked over at the other table next to us, and I could see the woman pulled up the Amazon page for Born Lucky, and she pointed at the book and then pointed at my dad. And I. I said, dad, like, they're looking at this. And he goes, just like, come on. I have no idea what you're talking about. And this woman, at the end of dinner got up, came over and said to my dad, she goes, you know, I don't know you, but I recognize your son. And I read his book, and it has meant so much to me and so much to my family, and I just want to thank you. And I thought my dad was gonna well up a little bit, but.

[D]

No.

[C]

No.

[B]

Well, he did, because I'm welling up just listening to the story, and I wasn't even there.

[C]

And he. And he said. He just said.

[D]

I.

[C]

He said, just, thank you so much for coming up. So I think it's. It's certainly been one of these things that if there's a. If there's a way to have something that is universally good, it's to help folks like so many parents who feel so alone.

[B]

Yeah, it's possible I wrote a book that made Sarah Palin cry, but I've yet to write a book like you to just reduce people to puddles of tears. So that's my. That's one of my goals. Now,

[C]

we could think a lot about why Sarah Palin was crying. I'm just putting it.

[B]

It's crazy, because this is just a sidebar interlude. There's literally no more sympathetic and I would say accurate portrayal of Sarah Palin that's ever been done in the media than Game Change. So extremely sympathetic to her, and yet she helped me sell books by attacking it as some sort of hit job on her, which I'm grateful to her for having done. But. But like I said, I think she might have been the only one who's cried by anything I've written. Tell me about your thoughts about being a dad. I thought about being a dad and what it meant to be a good dad before my son was born. But man, anyone without kids just no way to really, really get the power of it and the draw of it. But because you've thought so much about your dad and because you've written a book about this and really broken down the dynamics, what are your thoughts about how to be a good dad?

[C]

I wish I could give advice. I think the best advice is the afterword by my dad. And since your audience is so in, so interested in these topics, I'll give you a little bit of an inside story on Born Lucky. Every time I would interview dad for the book, he would adjudicate every story. Do we really want to talk about the teacher who did, you know, who compared you just favorably to his dog's ass in front of the entire class? Do we really want to talk about the guy who tried to get you fired in your first internship, on and on and on, or the guy who got you fired at Fox News? I digress. But I would say, okay, dad, we can't adjudicate these things. We have to just write the story, write the book, and if you don't like it, I won't turn it into HarperCollins. And he goes, okay, so I write the book. 65,000 words. Tuesday of deadline week. I give it to him and I say, I need an answer. I need any corrections by Thursday night. Here you go. Thursday night, he calls me after my show. I get home at 10pm and he goes, I can't do this. Can't turn it in. What do you mean you can't turn it in? He goes, you can't turn this in. Like you told me I had veto power. You can't turn it in. It's too personal. It's too hard for me. It makes me a hero. I'm not a hero. You can't turn it in. I thought to my, like, I almost pulled out chatgpt at that point, since I had 65,000 words due the next day. But that wasn't an option. So I said, well, let's talk about this. And he says, okay. I said, you know that woman who diagnosed me? If instead of saying there was no hope and there was nothing you could do, it instead handed you a copy of Born Lucky and said, this isn't a how to manual. This is just a, an idea of what another family went through and did. What would you have done? He said, oh, I would have read it every day, every week because it would have given me hope. Said, okay, so we have the ability to give other families that. He goes, yeah, shouldn't we? He goes, yeah, but I'm not a hero. I don't like how I'm being portrayed. I said, well, why don't you write an afterword? And he goes, okay, so when's it due? Tomorrow at noon. Calls me an hour later and he reads me, what is the afterword? I just recorded it on my phone and then got a transcript of it. And it has not been edited. It hasn't been changed. That's exactly what he said. He probably, you know, took him an hour to write. He's been writing it for 43 years. But I think that is the best advice. And his principles are pretty basic. They are about love, they are about compassion and understanding, but they're also about having standards. They're also about kindness. They're also about trying to help your child be the most they can be through selfless, unbelievably selfless acts on a daily basis.

[B]

Tell me about a great dad. You know, besides your dad,

[C]

my father in law, spectacular man in every way.

[B]

What makes him a great dad?

[C]

Again, I think there is a undying love. Which sounds odd to say a love for a child is, is different than anybody else's. But what I think is most unusual about my father in law is how he is. Even as my wife is now 30 something. I won't exactly put a number to

[B]

it, but, but childlike in all the best ways.

[C]

Well, she's, she still gets carded, but that he still had. He still treats her like he's his little girl. Yeah, and still has that instant response when she needs something, even if it's that she fell on the ski slope or whatever it is that he, he is there for her in that way. And I think my, my dad has the same emotional response to me. He still calls me his little boy that he takes care of and I think that's, that's difficult. At the same time, standards are standards and I think that's something that my dad always really held me to even when I didn't hold, hold myself to it.

[B]

If you see a friend of yours who's got kids or a kid, be a bad dad, do you speak out? Do you say, hey, let me give you some advice.

[C]

No, and I don't think I'm qualified. You know, I wrote about.

[B]

Oh, just to be clear, the premise of the question wasn't that you're qualified. Yeah, I just was wondering if you did.

[C]

Do I say, hey, look, I've written a New York Times bestselling book about fatherhood and this is how it should. No, I don't say that, Mark. Okay. Probably younger Leland would have. But I've since learned the social and emotional.

[D]

What.

[B]

What would present day Leland do if you're walking down the street or standing in a store and you saw a dad be really mean to their kid?

[C]

Oh, I'd probably walk up and say hello and just try to diffuse it, be nice to the kid. You know, the one thing that I think was so remarkable about how dad was able to find these ways to teach me and to mold me without embarrassing me. You know, you and I talked the last time in the interview about the watch tap that he, he taught me as I was a kid who would go to lunches and interrupt everybody or be at a party and talk too much, whatever it is, that he would tap his watch. And that was my signal to be quiet. And I have producers now who really wish that they could tap their watch when I was talking. Yeah, but we would then, we would then post game what I had missed and the social cues I had missed and how to engage with people emotionally. And that was, I think, you know, it was how to praise in public, support in public. Know that I had his undying support and protection. But there were ways he was going to help me get better. He was going to help me get to a place where I could interact in the world.

[B]

I've got a new goal. My goal before was to write a book that would make people cry. Now whenever I interview you, I want to make you cry. I'm trying to figure out what the right strategy for that.

[C]

Well, you could do so. I will tell you, Mark, I've done now about 220 interviews of born Lucky. And I will tell anyone that the best advice I've gotten about books is from Mark Halpern, who has been a phenomenal friend and supporter and I'm grateful for that. Your audience is so lucky to have you both as a journalist and as a person. They already know that.

[B]

You're very nice, I appreciate that, but that's not gonna make you cry. I need a strategy to make you cry.

[C]

So. Well, I'll tell you, you did not ask the one question that made me cry. One person did, and that was a. A priest who has a very popular television show and podcast. And he ends the interview, he's just about done. You know, Leland's been so great. I encourage Everybody to buy the book. What a wonderful story that brings families and love together. He compared my dad to Jesus of sacrificial love. And he goes, you know, you just have this remarkable family and a father that you wrote in a book about and a mother who is a saint. Have you thought about what it's going to be like when they're dead?

[D]

Huh?

[B]

I actually thought about asking you that today, but.

[C]

Just like that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And yeah. Well, you see now I'm prepared for it. But it just totally, it hit me like a baseball bat to the stomach.

[B]

I'm. Next time you're on, hopefully I'll know two weeks in advance. I'll spend two weeks with Claude working on a strategy to make you cry. But Claude's really. I bet Claude's good at that. I bet Claude's good at saying, how do you make a particular person cry? We're not, we're not in paperback yet, right?

[C]

No, still in hard book. But he's available. Thanks to some of Mark's advice in the beginning of the rollout of Born Lucky, it's kept selling out, but it is now back in stock. It's available on Amazon and it will get to you before Father's Day. And I think, I think it's fair to say you've read it. Is it a good Father's Day present?

[B]

I mean, unless you're buying them pants from Cozy Earth that I sell on my two way show, yeah, it's the best Father's Day present possible. But in all in all honesty folks, whether you're buying it for grandpa, Father, father in law, whatever, you couldn't buy them a better gift. They'll read it and they'll love it and they'll think anew about how to be a good parent, which is, and

[C]

it's even better when you read the book while wearing Cozy Earth pants.

[B]

Yeah, that's perfect. Leland, thank you for being on. Congratulations again for the book folks. I'm telling you again, read this book if you, if you, if you care about a great story well told and if, and if you care about how to, how to think about parenthood, you couldn't get a better book. And I'm really so, I'm so happy for you with your success. I have so many friends have written best selling books and you know, whatever, like they wrote a best selling book. You've written something that's touched people in such a fundamental way. It's a beautiful thing to see. So been a privilege, I look forward to giving you fatherhood advice when you're ready, Leland, buy his book, but you can also watch him on TV, 9 o' clock Eastern Time on News Nation. Occasionally I appear there and I never cry on that show for some reason.

[C]

Oh, I'll work on it though.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you, my friend. Grateful to you. Next up, a special conversation with my dad and a little cameo from my son James in honor of Father's Day, sat down with my family and talked about for my dad what it meant for someone of his generation to be a dad. Next up, my conversation with Morten Halperin. Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. You probably have it, but do you have much you're paying for it. The truth is you're likely paying too much to get too little. Plus, if coverage is tied to your job and then you're laid off, you're left with zero protection. That's scary, but it's simple to fix with Select Quote Unlike one size fits all company, SelectQuote's license agents work for you. In 15 minutes, they compare top rated providers to provide the perfect fit for your health and your budget. Best of all, their service is free. Don't worry about medical exams. They've got partners offering same day coverage, up to $2 million of coverage without a doctor's visit. Even with pre existing conditions like diabetes, selectquote finds the protection you deserve Life insurance has never been cheaper than it is right now. Selectquote they shop, you save, get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than [e-mail] Mark again, you heard me right. Save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] Mark today. Go there now to get started.

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SelectQuote.com Mark Oregon parks make an Oregon summer, but what makes an Oregon park well? Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie.

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find the ones you trust, find a

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pro for your [e-mail]. all right, next up, Father's Day. Happy to have here someone who is a father and a grandfather and someone who is a very good student of fathers. First, my father, Morton Halpern is here. He's been on the program before. Longtime Washington policy hand and a longtime father. Dad, thanks for being here.

[D]

My pleasure.

[B]

And Morton Halperin's grandson, my son James Halperin, also joining us on this Father's Day episode. James, welcome. Thank you for, thank you for being here. Yeah. Okay. Dad, how old were you when you first became a father?

[D]

Oh,

[B]

yeah. You don't even know because when you became a father, you were really busy. What was your job when you first became a father?

[D]

I was teaching at Harvard. I was an assistant professor of government at Harvard. Harvard, right.

[B]

And you were in your 20s or your 30s, I think you were in your 20s.

[D]

I was in my 20s. I was, I wanted 38.

[B]

Right. So you're in your 20s, your teacher Harvard, and then you have your second kid. And shortly after you have your second kid, you move to Washington, D.C. and take a very senior and demanding job in the Pentagon. So how did you think about having a job where, how many hours a day were you working when you worked at the Pentagon? 12, 12 hours a day. How did you think about being a father? Like, how did you think about balancing being a dad with. With working at a very demanding job?

[D]

I'm not sure I thought very much about it. It was sort of assumed to be the situation. The woman stayed at home and took care of the kids, and the father worked long hours to make enough money to support the family. So I don't remember giving any thought to it.

[B]

Yeah, things were different then because Dad's today, a dad today couldn't give that answer. I work hard, but I think all the time about making sure I'm studying enough time aside for my son. Who gave you advice about how to be a father? Did anybody give you advice about it?

[D]

Remember anybody giving the advice about it? Certainly not my father.

[B]

Your father never once said to you about how you raised your kids? He never said, well, maybe do this, maybe do that. Your mom never did.

[D]

I don't think he thought of himself as being part of raising his, his sons and so he would never. I couldn't imagine it, a conversation with my father about how to bring up sons.

[B]

Yeah. Again, kind of incredible. For difference of one generation. Because in my generation we are. I'm surrounded by advice about how to be a father, conversations with other parents about how to be a good father, and. And while I'm sure there are fathers, I know there are fathers of your generation who were. Who were different than you. Pretty typical for your generation. Almost unheard of in mind. And I'm wondering how you feel about that.

[D]

Well, it's obviously a very good thing, and I could say long and coming, but I'm not sure what it is that finally triggered it. But it was. It was part of a whole structural pattern. For example, when I taught at Harvard, Harvard had a rule that women could not be faculty members. And we had a very brilliant woman, Professor Judith Sklar, who in any other world would have been a professor. And she was offered a lectureship. And that was considered a great compromise. Harvard had a faculty club. It was called the Men's Faculty Club, and it was the Men's Faculty Club. Women were not permitted to become members. They could only come for certain special dinners as guests. There was a women's faculty club, but that was just for women and they had to pay if they wanted join it while the men's club was free. So it was part of a whole pattern which assumed that women stayed home and took care of the children. And the men worried about their job and making enough money and didn't worry, didn't feel they had any responsibility for raising the children. Obviously there are exceptions. The people ahead of time, the people behind that time. But this was the main thrust by far.

[B]

Yeah, just incredible. So again, in one generation, the change of the expectations about what it means to be a father, the responsibilities to be a father. And even, even for dads like me who have jobs where they work, as you watch me be a father of James, tell me how I do it differently than you did it.

[D]

Well, you obviously spend a much more time at it. I don't know how you do manage this, spend the time giving everything else you do, but you clearly do. And you clearly engaged fully in decisions about your son, which I was not really at all.

[B]

Dad, being a grandfather gives you another chance. You've got a bunch of grandkids. How is. How is being a grandfather different for you than being a dad?

[D]

Well, it's how I would be a dad now is very different. I have not had. Don't have close relations with my grandchildren. None of them now live in. In Washington, as you know. They're in. In Florida, out on the west coast, and one in New York. And So I don't have as close a relationship as I would like with

[B]

them because you don't live in the same city. But as, as you think about being a good grandfather now, what. What does that mean to you? How do you be a good grandfather?

[D]

Well, I think it means trying to establish a relation with your grandchildren, which I've been trying to do now with them as they become young adults and try to my time to be with them, try to find time when they're willing to be with me and trying to figure out how I can help and support them as they enter into the adult world.

[B]

Super challenging, though, because they're busy and they're. And they're so much younger than you. Their interests are so different. And so as I watch you try to talk to your grandkids, it's a challenge because where's the area of commonality? Right. So what would you, you're a smart guy. What would you say if you were recommending to someone who was becoming a grandfather for the first time? What are the keys to trying to bridge that gap between a grandfather and grandchildren?

[D]

Well, try to figure out what you have in common with maybe different things with each grandchild. For example, one of my granddaughters very interested in political issues. Burns in the Middle east, what's happening there, and so we talk about that. Others of my grandchildren are not interested in that. So I try to find other things to relate to them, but I don't understand the music they're interested in. So that's hard to do. And we have different interests. So it's, it's, it's even harder, I think, than with your strong children.

[B]

Your dad, my grandfather, was, I'm trying to describe, figure out how to say this. He was not a modern guy, even, even more so than you. As you said before, talk about how, again, not that you loved your father. I know, but just talk about how he struggled to be a good dad. What are the ways he struggled to be good?

[D]

Well, I'm not sure that he did. I don't think if you had asked him, he would have said, that's not my job. My job is to make sure we have enough money. He had lived through the depression and was conscious of the primary, as he saw it, obligation of a father was to make sure he had a job where he wasn't going to be fired, wasn't going to lose all his money in some business. And so he focused on finding a way to make a living that he was comfortable, he could continue to do and would always be Able to, to support his family. And then he thought that was the number one, number two, and number three, job of father.

[B]

I'm saying, I'm saying not from his standard, because his standard was being a good dad just means making sure the bills are paid. I'm saying from the standards of, of what a dad should be. How did he, how did he fall short, in your view, for your purposes as a child?

[D]

Well, he never talked to me almost about anything. I mean, certainly not, you know, obligation, how you should treat a woman, how you had babies. You know, these are not topics that he discussed. And he did, he. He did try to take us on, on trips. He usually did not work on Sunday and mostly on Saturday. And so often on a Saturday or Sunday, he would organize a trip for me, my brother and him, sometimes my three girl cousins. Once he took us to Staten Island, I remember, on an Easter Sunday. And we were, we were dressed for an outing on Sunday and everybody else on Staten island was dressed for Easter.

[B]

So we remember if, if, if you needed advice about something, was he, was he open to helping you? Do you feel comfortable going to him for advice?

[D]

Yeah. Remember ever going to him for advice?

[B]

All right, so at some point in his life, the transition occurred. That happens between fathers and sons, which is he went from the grown up who took care of you, although we talked already about the limited way she did that to. You're having to take care of him. Your mom passed away before he did. You moved him from New York down to Washington into a nursing home. And you spent a lot of the lady home. I'm not in a nursing home. Senior. Senior living.

[D]

Senior living. Not even. Yeah, not even, you know, care.

[B]

Yeah, not. It wasn't barely assisted. It's just senior living. But you, you helped him for the last years of his life. You made. Helped him make a lot of financial decisions, life decisions, etc. What was that transition like for you?

[D]

Well, it was very difficult and it was. I was unprepared for it. I mean, nobody told me. It didn't occur to me that this could happen. I never really thought about, you know, parents getting to that point. And I thought my brother and I did not do very well with my mother. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. And that was the first time we got engaged in a serious way with her health issues. And we try to be supportive, but in retrospect, I should have done much more and been there much more for my mother, especially for my father, as he dealt with, with losing her. He was very dependent on her, it turned out he didn't have to be. He ended up being able to cook, he could buy groceries, he could, you know, do things on his own. And he lived several years more in New York after my mother, in Brooklyn after my mother died and he finally had. We had to insist that he moved to Washington because of his health, not because of his inability to manage his own household. Although until my mother died, he gave no sign of understanding what it, what a supermarket was.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he rose to the occasion. So throughout my life I've been lucky enough to have you as my dad because whenever I need advice about things, you've always been there for me. And some of that is just practical. I still don't really understand how insurance works. I still don't really understand a lot about a lot of stuff like that. You do. And so you've always been able to give me advice like that in the last few years. Sometimes I'm giving you advice and you're asking me for advice. And it's a strange transition. I'm so grateful to have the opportunity to help you at times, but from an emotional and psychological point of view, it's a weird transition to have, which again, I saw you do that with your dad and now I'm not doing it totally with you because your age notwithstanding, I still ask you for advice all the time and you still are extraordinarily self sufficient in almost every way. But what's it like for you for this phase now where at times you're asking me for help and, and me for advice?

[D]

Well, it's not easy. First of all, I don't want you a very busy life and, and I think you should not have responsibility for taking care of me. I married, I have a wife who takes care of me. But, but still I, I want to be able to rely on you and your brothers for some things. And that's a very difficult process.

[B]

What's difficult about it? Why not? We're all, we're happy to help, so

[D]

what makes it difficult? But it's, but you've got your own lives to live and, and I don't want you to feel that, you know, you have to curtail how you deal with your child or with your family, with your wife and with your act, you know, professional activities. Right.

[B]

Is it even, even when I tell you I, I'm so happy for the opportunity to help you. Even then you still feel reluctant?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. I want to talk about a few things you did for me. One was you took me to a rolling Stones concert with a festival seating giant, Anaheim Stadium, no assigned seats. And we went the night before and slept outside Anaheim Stadium. You know, you're, you're famous for when rock and roll started saying it was a fad that wouldn't last. So I don't think you were super keen to take us to a Rolling Stones concert, but what was that experience like for you, taking three young boys to sleep outside at Anaheim Stadium?

[D]

It was, it was for me, very good. I felt that I was making contact more than I had on other occasions, that I was doing something that you guys wanted to do, which I didn't really understand at all, but that I was able to adjust and protect you guys because it was really scary. As you remember, we was very close to the stage and suddenly there were thousands of people putting in behind us. And I felt I had to take you and your younger brother up to the stadium, up to the seats to protect you, and yet leave your older brother there. And that was kind of scary too.

[B]

Yeah. Massive mistake for us to stand so close to the stage because. I'll give you 100. I'll give you 100 bucks if you can tell me who the opening act for the Rolling Stones were that day. Now, it was the Outlaws we were looking for. The Outlaws weren't able to get.

[D]

No idea.

[B]

Yeah. So I've got James, one son, and you spend a lot of time with us. Get a chance to watch me be a dad. Write a few paragraphs here. What am I like as a dad? What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses?

[D]

I think you're a terrific dad. You listen to your son, you make sure you understand what he's saying. If you ask him a question that he doesn't understand or you think the answer is not really completely oppressive as you have just on this program when we've been talking and you find the time to be with him, which I. I find amazing, given all the other things you do.

[B]

Yeah. Not that good because he abandoned his seat. I'm going to try to get him to come back in.

[A]

What.

[B]

What are the pleasures for you of being a dad? What. What makes it satisfying to have been a dad for the many years you have been? For six 60 plus years, seeing how

[D]

my sons have lived their lives, with integrity, having a chance to be with them and as I slow down and with my grandchildren and trying now to establish new relationships with, with, with all of them.

[B]

What's the hardest thing about being a dad?

[D]

The hardest thing is not understanding what your child is concerned about. What's really upsetting them, what's really worrying them and what, how they might do things that will set them off course in various ways and whether to intervene, how to intervene, what's helpful, what's not helpful,

[B]

and what's, what's the advice you give a young dad?

[D]

Make time for your sons and daughters. Try to understand what's motivating them. Recognize that they're going to make choices different than you would make. And then your job is not to change their mind, but to make sure that they consider all the things they should consider in deciding what to do.

[B]

Great advice. All right, James is back. James, just to end the segment, if you could wish all me, your grandfather and all the dads out there a happy Father's Day, please. Happy Father's Day.

[D]

All right.

[B]

Thank you, James Halperin. Thank you, Morton Alpern.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

Done spending some Father's Day time with me. So right now close your eyes and think about the last 30 bucks that you spent. Maybe on a streaming subscription you don't watch or a lunch you've already forgotten. That is $30 and it's gone forever. Acre Gold lets you turn that so called lost money into physical 24 karat Swiss gold. You pick a plan, your balance builds and once you hit the price of a bar, they ship it straight to your front door. This is real gold right in your hand at your home. And over time, you're sitting on something that's been valuable since the dawn of civilization. And for the collectors out there, this is cool. They just dropped the limited edition Hot Wheels collection. These are officially licensed by Mattel. They're strictly captain. Once they're gone, their history. So while you're checking them out, you can claim your free entry to the speed club sweepstakes. They're giving away a 1 gram hot wheels gold bar plus a massive grand prize, the 10 gram 24 karat Gold Hot Wheels bar. Both come in official collector packaging and they're up for grabs right now. So start stacking for just $30 at getacregold.com mark start today at getacregold.com Mark subscribe right.

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Oregon parks make an Oregon summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon lottery gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

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Oregon Parks make an Oregon Summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps no matter the game megabucks, video lottery or keno, funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, discover state park Parks Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

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Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.

[D]

This is very strange, Angie.

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The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].