Deebo & Joe - Part 1: REACTION to Myles Garrett trade to Rams!

Summary

Nightcap Podcast: Deebo & Joe - Part 1

Episode: Reaction to Myles Garrett Trade to Rams
Date: June 2, 2026
Hosts: James “Deebo” Harrison & Joe

Episode Overview

This episode of Nightcap, featuring former NFL stars James “Deebo” Harrison and Joe, delivers instant, unfiltered reactions to the blockbuster trade sending defensive superstar Myles Garrett from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams. Deebo and Joe explore the emotional and football ramifications for the Browns, Garrett, and the Rams, alternating between fan frustration and hard-nosed business perspective. The discussion is deeply rooted in both the pain of losing a homegrown legend and the cold calculus that drives NFL decision-making.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Reactions to the Garrett Trade

[06:09 - 07:10]

• Joe shares his initial shock and emotional turmoil over Garrett’s departure, emphasizing how tough it is for dedicated Browns fans to see a cornerstone leave.
• Deebo sets the stage, suggesting this move was brewing for months, with clear indicators: “Your boy ain’t showed up. He ain’t even met the man face to face, the new head coach. He ain’t even have no understanding of what’s going on with the defense. Nothing new, defensive coordinator, everything going on. You know what that tells me is he don't need to know. Why? Because chances are he's not going to be there when they come time for the regular season or after June 1st.” (06:26)

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2. The Browns’ Organizational Mindset

[07:10 - 11:00]

• Joe wrestles with the hard pivot Cleveland made from “win now” to a long-term rebuild:
  “I have to realize now, as a Browns fan, that the ownership is not in the same lockstep as the fans are.”
• Joe lists Garrett’s resume—23 sacks last year, 9 seasons, 125 sacks—and laments that “the win totals, they don’t accumulate to us winning games.” (08:08)
• Deebo provides the cold GM logic, arguing:
  “Barry's cooking, bro… you have a dude that just came off the best season he done had of his life… but that’s all y’all could muster up is five wins. Barry is saying, I have to take away my emotional attachment to Miles and look at this as a business.” (10:13)
• Both acknowledge the trade is about maximizing value while Garrett still holds elite status.

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3. Anatomy of the Trade: What Cleveland Got

[12:08 - 13:32]

• Deebo describes the trade as fair:
  “Cleveland gets Verse. They get a first in 2027, a second in 2028 and a third in 2029. Like really, what you got right there was two first rounders. You got a guy that’s proven right now that could come in and play in that game that can fill in that spot… You’re not going to get Miles numbers, but you don’t need Miles numbers because it did nothing for you to get Miles numbers before.” (12:09)
• Joe underscores that Jared Verse, while a solid, younger pass rusher, isn’t a one-for-one replacement but represents hope for future core building.

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4. Building for the Future vs. Living for Today

[13:36 - 16:29]

• Deebo: “He’s building for the future. Like you said, dude, the last couple years he’s been cooking again, bro. What can I get from Miles?”
• Both hosts agree Cleveland is collecting draft capital to address multiple roster holes, with the implicit understanding that playoff wins have eluded the Browns despite Garrett’s greatness.
• Joe brings up the “fan contradiction”: “When these teams aren’t stacked… we aren't doing what the Rams are doing. When you get rid of a Myles Garrett when you're a team like the Rams, that's when you do it, when you know you're a player away… when you're a fan… you like the perspective of Miles Garrett is a baller. If you're trying to win games, you have him on your team.” (13:45-15:00)

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5. The Rams Approach & Contrasting Organizational Philosophies

[25:32 - 27:46]

• Deebo breaks down the Rams’ “win now” mindset:
  “They ain’t had a first round pick in what, 10 years? …He 10 and 5 in the playoffs. He done made the playoffs seven of his nine years and that is with not one first rounder. Because they’re doing it by trading off and getting who they need right now to stay competitive.” (26:07)
• Joe details how the Rams' success with late-round picks (Puka Nacua, etc.) enables them to swing for a proven star like Garrett.
• The duo compare LA’s aggressive, “F them picks” attitude with Cleveland’s extended rebuild and patience-needing fanbase.

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6. What Does This Mean for the Browns in 2026 and Beyond?

[28:36 - 34:56]

• Joe is pragmatic yet disappointed:
  “I was expecting our defense to still be as 100% fire as it was supposed to be… Now I'm just expecting for the offense the same young pools… I'm not seeing us just being the worst team in the league. Since we lost Miles, our defense isn't going to be better. That's a fact. But we still have Denzel. We still got Delpic.” (29:37)
• Deebo challenges Joe:
  "With all that you just said, you keep Miles, do you really believe y’all compete for a championship this year?" (31:08)
• Joe concedes playoff hopes, not titles: "This year? ...I think we...to the playoffs."
• Deebo pushes the point that without a franchise quarterback, the timeline for the Browns to contend is out of sync with Garrett’s career window.

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7. The Human Angle: Player Loyalty and Legacy

[42:32 - 47:13]

• Both hosts reflect on player legacies stuck with struggling franchises.
• Joe: “It's not his fault that the Browns haven't won the Super Bowl. If he deserves to be on the super bowl team for sure.”
• Deebo: “He got a Hall of Fame career already. First ballot. He deserves the chance and opportunity to go and win him a championship. Ain't nothing wrong with that.” (46:09)
• They debate whether Garrett would ultimately enter the Hall of Fame as a Brown or Ram if he wins titles in LA—a potent, emotional “what if.”

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8. Browns Fan Experience: Hope and Frustration

[49:11 - 53:38]

• Joe: “But being a Browns fan today, and being a Browns fan for years, it's like you hear that you've been working on something for them to be good in a long time, for them to be good in the future.” (49:11)
• Deebo consoles:
  “Cleveland Browns fans, dog pound, puppy pound, whatever y'all want to call y'all been bad for so long. What is another two or three years to come out on the other side?” (53:17)
• Both recognize the angst of perpetual rebuilding but urge patience with the new plan.

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9. Assessing Jared Verse & The Defense

[50:59 - 51:44]

• Joe pivots to cautious optimism for new edge rusher Jared Verse:
  “Jerry Verse, I'm rooting for you. He's trying to get a contract. He got two years left on his rookie deal, so he's trying to get right. ...He's gonna prove it. So that's the thing for Verse too. He want to go get his bag. I know he's hungry.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Barry's cooking, bro… you have a dude that just came off the best season he done had of his life… but that’s all y’all could muster up is five wins.” — Deebo (10:13)
• “You don’t need Miles numbers because it did nothing for you to get Miles numbers before. It only got you five wins. You got to fill all the other holes on the defense, I mean on the offense, and on the team, period.” — Deebo (12:08)
• “Your team around you during your career may be on a different type timing than you are… They're growing. They need more pieces.” — Joe (47:56)
• “He got a Hall of Fame career already. First ballot. He deserves to have that chance and opportunity to go and win him a championship. Ain’t nothing wrong with that.” — Deebo (46:09)
• “Cleveland Browns fans, dog pound, puppy pound, whatever y'all want to call y'all been bad for so long. What is another two or three years to come out on the other side?” — Deebo (53:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:09 - 07:10] — Joe’s raw emotional response to the Garrett trade
• [10:13 - 12:08] — Deebo details why GM Berry made this move
• [13:36 - 16:29] — The business logic for both franchises
• [25:32 - 27:46] — Rams’ roster-building philosophy explained
• [28:36 - 34:56] — Real talk: What’s next for the Browns?
• [42:32 - 46:22] — Player legacy, Hall of Fame, and why sometimes you have to let players chase rings
• [49:11 - 53:38] — Message to Browns fans: patience, pragmatic hope, and the endless cycle of rebuilding

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Tone & Style Notes

The episode is a blend of emotional fandom (especially from Joe) and the hard-nosed realism of a former pro (Deebo). The tone shifts between disappointment, resignation, and a dogged optimism for the future. Neither host sugarcoats the pain for Cleveland fans but they do a masterful job explaining—in passionate, relatable language—why this seismic NFL move actually makes sense for all involved.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Conversation

This episode provides a cathartic, honest, and comprehensive breakdown of the Myles Garrett trade. If you are a Browns or Rams fan, or just love thoughtful NFL commentary, it's a must-listen to understand what this trade means, how both organizations are thinking, and why sometimes football is about more than just numbers—it’s about timing, legacy, and the never-ending hope for something better.

Transcript

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[Joe]

You.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, please make sure you like and subscribe and download where you get your show. Hey Joe.

[Joe]

Hey Joe, what's up man?

[James Devo Harrison]

How you doing today, Joe?

[Joe]

I'm all right.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey Joe, I'll be right back. Go ahead, talk to the people, man and I'll be. I'm gonna talk to him. But listen, hey, I don't want y' all to get upset now.

[Joe]

Joe, why he's so happy? Why you so. Why you so happy?

[James Devo Harrison]

Listen man, I'm trying to get. You understand. I'm trying to get people to understand something, Joe. Like hey man, things happen, you know what I'm saying? It's life. You know, life happens and you gotta be ready for life. Sometimes life kicks shit Out. But, you know, if I felt like it was at least a little.

[Joe]

A nub bit, you know, you ain't got the cigar. You acting like we won a game.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, it ain't a full cigar, but it's a little nub something, you know,

[Joe]

I need you to chew. I need you to stop being so damn excited, okay? Why are you so hyped?

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, I went through.

[Joe]

I went through a lot of different.

[James Devo Harrison]

I don't know what happened. But listen, let me talk to you. How you doing to Jay. Can we back up? How you doing today, Jay? How you doing today?

[Joe]

I'm actually doing better because it happened yesterday after the show. So I had a long time to literally process all the feels, all of the emotions that I was going through, you know what I'm saying, of just Miles leaving the team legitimately.

[James Devo Harrison]

Oh, shit.

[Joe]

That's right. I'm looking at some of them not being on the Browns.

[James Devo Harrison]

So then Miles Garrett is off to the Rams. Joe.

[Joe]

Yes, he is. Joe. Right after the show. Right after the show.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, what did I tell you, Joe? Joe, what did I tell you, Joe? What? Hey, y' all got the video. Run the video. What did I show the people? What I told.

[Joe]

Yo, you know what?

[James Devo Harrison]

I thought it was coming earlier, but maybe not. Maybe not. But then they moved the stuff around and all that. Then nothing really happened. But you know what done happened since then? Your boy ain't showed up. He ain't even met the man face to face, the new head coach. He ain't even have no understanding of what's going on with the defense. Nothing new, defensive coordinator, everything going on. You know what that tells me is he don't need to know. Why don't he need to know? Because chances are he's not going to be there when they come time for the regular season or after June 1st. June 1st. June 1st, June 7th.

[Joe]

Joe. Yes, Joe.

[James Devo Harrison]

Here, man. How do you feel about this, Joe?

[Joe]

So this is what I'm going through a whole lot of feels a whole lot of emotions. So basically, this is what's going on. We're planning for the future. I gotta start getting my Brown's player hat off and stop thinking that right now that we're trying to go and we're trying to win now we're trying to go and go to the playoffs and we're trying to do all of this stuff. We're going for the future. We're looking ahead. We're looking ahead. So as far as the GMs, as a fan, Miles Garrett has done nothing

[James Devo Harrison]

Joe, but be great, Joe. Let me. Let me stop.

[Joe]

Tell me how you feel about it, and then I'll go ahead and let you know. But it's just. We're on different paths. I went through a lot of different emotions because I have to realize now, as a Browns fan, that the ownership is not in the same lockstep as the fans are. I'm trying to always think about winning the championship.

[James Devo Harrison]

Now.

[Joe]

What's the best way to get our team the best that we can be? That's not what all the other people are on. They're like, what can we get? Myles, we had 23 sacks for them, so they're thinking different things than I'm thinking. And Miles, love you to death. In the same way with Joe Thomas, in the same way. When you have Calvin Johnsons and the Barry Sanders of the worlds, people that just stay to the organization, because if you're a type one player, you're the best of the best, you're going to get that bag regardless. Because you perform at that level, anybody's going to give it to you. Miles going to get that money. Miles going to get that bag no matter where he goes, even at 30 years old. So the Browns are like, how much longer are we going to be able to get compensation for Miles and be able to build for the future knowing miles gave us 23 sacks? He's been doing nothing nine seasons, 125 sacks, 412 tackles, 23 forced fumbles, six fumble recoveries, two time defensive player of the year. You know what I'm saying? Seven time Pro Bowler, seven time All Pro. You don't get better than what Miles is getting. But the wins, the win totals, they don't accumulate to us winning games.

[James Devo Harrison]

So, hey, Joe, I ain't gonna lie.

[Joe]

I'm pissed because this mountain.

[James Devo Harrison]

Listen, listen, listen to me, Joe. Listen. Ain't gonna lie to you. Now. This go hurt me to say. It's really. It's really. I'm gonna hate saying it like it's not. Hate is a strong word, but I'm. I'm going to very much dislike saying this, but because unlike you, you're a fan. I'm not a fan. So I can sit back and be like, what's up with this? I look at it, I say, okay, they get this. They get that. For me, the trade is like, okay, it's a fair trade. Like when you said three first, I'm like, ain't no way they getting no three first. It's just. It's just not happening. Like, they ain't getting no 3 first now. And the only reason it's a fair trade to me right now is because when it comes down to it, it's no clear loser.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[James Devo Harrison]

And like I said, dude, I, I just, I hate goodness. Barry's cooking, bro. And this is what the fans do not realize. Like y' all in Cleveland, like you, y' all don't like this, y' all don't, y' all don't understand this, but this man is cooking. You have a dude that just came off the best season he done had of his life. Defensive MVP again. He done had 23 sacks and like all the stats you gave, all the numbers you gave, and that's all y' all could muster up is five wins. Barry is saying, look here, I have to take away my emotional attachment to Miles and look at this as a business. And right now, for the long haul or the short haul of when Miles is going to be there and be in that style of playing and being able to, you know, get that, that much out of him, we have a better chance of trading him away and acquiring picks because we have too many holes right now on our team to be able to be a competitive team to go and actually compete for a championship. So he said, you know what, I'm doing the hard work. The man is 30. He just came off a fire season. I can get what I need before it's too late and build this team. The fans is not gonna like this. They don't. They're gonna hate it. Joe's gonna hate it. I knew you were gonna hate it. But that's cause you're a fan. You're a fan. It's just sit back and you look, he's building for the future like you said, dude, the last couple years he's been cooking again, bro. What can I get from Miles? Not only did he trade Miles, he got a first. He also got a player that could come in right now and fill in where Miles is off at. He's younger at that. He's 25, bro.

[Joe]

Definitely 25.

[James Devo Harrison]

He's 25. Like I know all, dude. So what Barry did, he's like, I have to go. And this, I, I believe that they did this. When he wanted to leave, I believe dead ass Miles wanted to leave, bro. I believe he wanted to leave 100%. And Barry said, look here, man, give us another chance. We're going to make you the highest paid non quarterback in the league. Just give us a year. And if you don't like what you see after that year we will trade you and matter of fact, we'll put a no trade clause in there. So you get to go where it is that you want to go to a competitor that you are under that you are understand or sorry that you are under a understanding that they have a chance to win. And it's your choice. So he has to approve it. That's why didn't know trade was there. Cleveland gets Verse. They get a first in 2007, 2027. They get a second in 28 and a third and 29. Like really what you got right there was two first rounders. You got a guy that's proven right now that could come in and play in that game that can fill in that spot. You're not going to get Miles numbers, but you don't need Miles numbers because it did nothing for you to get Miles numbers before. It only got you five wins. You got to fill all the other holes on the defense, I mean on the offense and, and on the team, period. So that you're able to go out there and be a competitive team that you're competing for championship. So his goal right now, what he's doing is he's competing for championships. He's trying to build a team in

[Joe]

the win in the future.

[James Devo Harrison]

In the future. Y' all not gonna like that. But what do it matter? You've been getting your ass kicked for the last 20 years. Who cares if you gotta take it for another three?

[Joe]

This one I'm trying to tell you, I'm having to come to the legitimate realization of when these teams aren't stacked. We aren't doing what the Rams are doing. When you get rid of a Miles Garrett when you're a team like the Rams, that's when you do it. When you know you're a player away. Your offense is already fire. Your offense is already putting up points. You lost in the championship game because your defense couldn't stop a nosebleed like they were doing okay. But I'm telling then you wouldn't get Trent McDuffie. You get Trent McDuffie for the secondary. F them picks, get me some ballers that I know can play. And then now we're going to go get Myles Garrett. So this is what good teams do. I'm looking at it from when you're a fan and you like the perspective of Miles Garrett is a baller. If you're trying to win games, you have him on your team. He's def. I still he think he's going to be a baller for the next five years, when you got a young dude that can come in, it's more growth, it's more. We got him under contract two years before he gets to his fifth year option, you know what I'm saying? Because this is going to be his third year in the league. Basically, they got his rights for the next three years. The next two years, he makes $2.1 million and then 2.9. So you get verse coming here, coming off two Pro Bowls, so you getting a young stud you're not going to replace. 23 sacks. Nobody is Miles Garrett. But we've been having Myles Garrett do his thing for these last nine years. 16 sacks, 14 sacks, 14 sacks, 23 sacks. And we haven't been able to get to where we needed to go. So for me, I love. I wouldn't want. That's like the Joe Thomas thing, the Calvin Johnson thing, the mega. The Megatron. I don't think the Matthew Stafford, they spend their times on teams when they're trying to build, trying to create. But if you were to go, it's not your fault. You're a great enough player. Miles Garrett, all these Pro Bowls, all these, All Pros, all this. You have a Hall of Fame career right now, but with your greatness, you want to be able to play on the biggest stages. And to be honest, when I saw Myles Garrett looking with his mouth wide open with Shador, threw for 340 yards and five touchdowns and the ball was flying through the air and he was just looking excited. He's going to be able to go play with Matthew Stafford. So just for Miles Garrett and just for football, understanding he was doing everything he could do for the Browns, even though he was telling them that I want to get traded before that season, he came out there and gave you 23 sacks and set the record. So no matter what, missing meetings and like, not missing meetings, but not showing up the OTAs, when he was on the football field, Miles Garrett was one of the best defensive players I've ever seen. So that's what he gave to the Browns. He went and did his job every single time. So this off season, like you said, D, bro, when he was chilling, didn't come back. They got a new coach. They saw what we did with Miles with 23 sacks, they gave him the bag.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And.

[Joe]

And now the Rams, they've been. They hearing. They've been knocking on the door for years trying to get Miles, trying to figure out what's going on. What's going on. You move to 10 million. So, like, all right, Now, Miles said Miles let you know he didn't. He's not saying like I want to guarantee a trade, but yeah, you can move that money to. So give you a little bit more time to see if you can find a squad. Where I want to go. He has the no trade clause in there to where now the Brown said, you've been doing a great job for us. You balled out. You did everything you had to do. Well, your no trade clause goes to the Rams. He's like, man, bet you're sending me to a contender. Instantly. They take my contract. I go over there, white pants, we good to go. So I think they definitely looked out in a good way for Miles, making sure that, well, he had his no trade clause. He wasn't going to go to a team. That was terrible, Joe.

[James Devo Harrison]

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[James Devo Harrison]

That he wanted to leave. He was dead ass. Like, I'm out of here. Like, listen here, Barry. Say hey, listen man, give me, give me another year. I think we, we, we can show you that we're moving in the right direction. And he's hoping that he, he could create something or that it would have been a than it was and it would have been enough to get Miles to stay. But it wasn't okay when it came down to it, he done put this out there. Like this is what it'll be. And if it comes down at the end of the year and you don't like how it looked and you won't trade it, man, we will trade you. The no clause is there so that you get to go where it is that you want to go. And from here everything is gravy. So that's why Miles never showed up to OTAs. He never came back to Cleveland. He already knew he was never going to be there. Like that was, that was, that was a given. There was no need for him to make any connections with the new group coming in. All you gotta do is read the writing on the wall, man. Like new head coach, he don't show up. And the year before, you already talking about you wanted to go. And then the only thing that really stopped him is the bag. Now, I didn't know that they had a little something going on with the no trade and all that other stuff, but obviously I feel like that's what it was.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's just.

[James Devo Harrison]

It's a great move, dude. I'm just. I hate to like when you saying

[Joe]

it's a great move. Not for right now, because as a

[James Devo Harrison]

fan, you want a great move. Because three years you're not going to win a championship, Joe. You're not even going to be competing for one. Let's be honest right now, you don't have a quarterback.

[Joe]

How you keep saying we don't have a quarterback when you don't, man, you

[James Devo Harrison]

don't have a quarterback. That is going to be that guy that you can see when he comes in there. He gets in that game like a Joe Burrow, that. Oh, man, he's going to be this dude.

[Joe]

He's going to be this person that

[James Devo Harrison]

can make this difference.

[Joe]

An offense with weapons and a consistent line to be able to show what the quarterback can do. You know what I'm saying? Like with Sam Darnold with the jets. That. Not the Sam Darnold that you see with the Seahawks. He's the same person, but. But he has different people around him. And the team makes him look way better. Like, let that man grow. I think Shador, if he has talent around him, assets, abilities.

[James Devo Harrison]

Okay, let him grow. You gotta let him grow. How long did it take Sam Darnold to get to where he's at right now?

[Joe]

It took him. It didn't happen with the Jets. You just go to. You put them to a credit team.

[James Devo Harrison]

It was four years. I give my three more years of playing extremely, extremely well. If that's. That's. If he's lucky enough to stay healthy, you know, you're getting it. He's 30 already. You hit that 33, you know what happens, dude. You feel it.

[Joe]

We gotta keep a cons.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We.

[James Devo Harrison]

We.

[Joe]

I'm liking the Browns.

[James Devo Harrison]

I'm trying to tell you. I played till I was 39, bro. You hit that 33. Between 30 and 33 was a wall. It was another wall that hit at 30. He hitting the 30. Wall right now. You gotta break through that one to get to the third.

[Joe]

Miles, you said miles. Hitting the 30. Wall right now.

[James Devo Harrison]

He go hit that 30 wall right now because he done played the greatest season in his life ever in his career. And he's not going to be able to do that same thing this year. He's not going to be able to do that. And when you don't do that, that gets onto your confidence, dude. You're like, oh my God, is the age working now? Your wind ain't the same or you thinking it may not be it getting to your head? You're getting older. Father Time is undefeated, bro. He's going to get everybody. He saw an opportunity, they saw an opportunity.

[Joe]

The Rams, it's a win for the Browns in the future. Knowing that we still, like you said, we're miles away. We're so many, we're pieces away. We're getting these young dudes, the young draft picks. Hopefully if we have to hit on these guys to be good and to continue. But right now we're talking about that's

[James Devo Harrison]

your only, that's your only choice.

[Joe]

It's the only hope.

[James Devo Harrison]

That's your only choice. Joe, you had a, you had a chance of keeping Miles there and being another four or five games and no closure. You have a chance now to get more pieces to help and you have that.

[Joe]

But the same thing is Jared Verse

[James Devo Harrison]

can't come in there and at least hold up.

[Joe]

We're not going to be. So we were going for the number one defense. I can say for sure we didn't lose at all.

[James Devo Harrison]

Number one defense didn't help you win a playoff game or even get into one or have a winning season.

[Joe]

We need our offense to start producing. That's the thing. That's the thing. We have to start scoring some points.

[James Devo Harrison]

So you gotta get the players. We. How do you do that?

[Joe]

Draft.

[James Devo Harrison]

And he's doing it right now with draft capital. He's doing a good job.

[Joe]

That's what I'm saying. But like yeah, yeah, it's just going to be is this the Rams?

[James Devo Harrison]

You know how they doing it? They trading the way they draft picks, they doing it through the draft but they trading them away to get the players they can going.

[Joe]

They're doing great hitting on their second round picks, their third round picks. Kyle Williams, understand a Puka Nua, you get a fifth round pick.

[James Devo Harrison]

They trade, they trading off other guys. They, they like dude. They.

[Joe]

When you hit on Puka in the

[James Devo Harrison]

fifth that helps put the graphic up of their pick since 2016.

[Joe]

The Browns right now, their first round picks.

[James Devo Harrison]

The, the, the Rams first round picks and that's the Rams first round picks. Dude, since 2016. Remember in 2017 they ended up getting McVeigh and McVeigh, when McVeigh got in, he went from. I think it was like a. What was it, a 12. No, a 4 and 12 record to 11 and 5, a playoff berth. The next year was 133 where they lost the super bowl to the Pack to the Patriots. The year after that they missed the playoffs. It was still 9, 7 though it was a 10, 6 after that with a division loss. And the year after that is Super Bowl. Now that's when they had the down year. They went like 4 and 512 or something like that. That was. They. That was his. That was his first losing season. They had a whole bunch of injuries that went along with that. But the next year they bounced right back to 10 to 7 with another pair of birth, another 10, 7. And then it was a loss. Just last year at 12 and five in the championship game. Now you put Miles into that. They go and they. I truly believe they win that game. So you talking about a dude who, who ain't had a first round pick in what, 10 years? Damn there. He ain't had a first round pick in 10 years. He 10 and five in the playoffs. He done made the playoffs seven of his nine years and that is with not one first rounder. Because they're doing it by trading off and getting who they need right now to stay competitive. They don't want to rebuild. They like we go rebuild, but we're going to rebuild a different way. We go rebuild to stay competitive. Right now we're right here like that's why they just signed that man for two years and now you got Miles right now they trying to run a back to back.

[Joe]

Yes, bro, that's what Your team ain't

[James Devo Harrison]

there with Miles there, why not let him go so you can get there in maybe three to five years. Dude, he's doing it. He has to do that. Y', all. Y' all upset now?

[Joe]

I hope.

[James Devo Harrison]

I. I don't want to.

[Joe]

We better. The thing is we.

[James Devo Harrison]

But if you just listen that he's trying to do, you will be sitting here thinking about, yo, that, that trade on Miles three, four or five years ago, whatever that is, that was damn well worth it. We got this. We got that, we got this, we got that. And now we're actually in the playoffs. We're actually competing and have an opportunity to truly say we could compete for a championship as a Cleveland Browns team.

[Joe]

That's going to be. That man can keep his job 365 times three. That's down there a thousand days from now. So we gonna be sitting on this show, building this.

[James Devo Harrison]

We've been sucking for 50,000 days, Jon.

[Joe]

I'm just saying it. No, I mean pick the build. We got to get the quarterback. That's what we're saying, too. So if we lose and we get terrible this year and we're going to have two 2017 first round picks, if we're bad and we're supposed to be as terrible as we are, we own one of our picks which might be higher than usual or high just now since we're going. If we suck, if we end up being asked, we'll be the first round, first pick, second pick, and then it's going to be the Rams pick which going to be messing around. Be the super bowl pick because I think they're going to mess around and win the Super Bowl. We just gave them the best team because. Cause they got Miles, they got my man McDuffie.

[James Devo Harrison]

Why are you worried about giving them the best team? You keeping him ain't gonna make y' all no better.

[Joe]

That's all I'm telling you. Well, so building for the future, Joe. All right, all right, all right.

[James Devo Harrison]

I don't know why I'm sitting up here defending.

[Joe]

You're not defending the Cleveland Browns. You're saying building for the future. I'm hearing you, but so just, I mean, so right now, what did I say about it? This is what I'm saying, though. Look, I'm still saying this. I'm excited for this season, but I have to just lower my expectations because I was expecting our defense to still be as 100% fire as it was supposed to be. Probably number one in the league with Miles Garrett coming back right now, top five Now I'm just expecting for the offense the same young pools that we have, desean Shador, somebody, they're going to have. They're better than they were last year. So I'm looking at it like, okay, special teams is going to have to be better. So we won five games. I'm not saying. I'm saying three more games than that. We lost a couple of field goals like by. By. By nothing. So eight games isn't crazy. So when I'm looking at our team, when we're saying, are we just going to be complete trash where we can only win one game? So I'm not seeing, like, we're not going to be that bad. Where I'm not seeing us just being the worst team in the league. Since we lost Miles, our defense isn't going to be better. That's a fact. But we still have Denzel. We still got Delpic. We still got everybody that we had before. And on offense, the same offense that we had, nobody left. All of the draft picks that we got, the whole offensive line that we got, they're still there. So I'm expecting for our team to defense now.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, can I ask you a question?

[Joe]

I'm just like, how often all of a sudden we're not just trash.

[James Devo Harrison]

Can I ask you a question?

[Joe]

Yes.

[James Devo Harrison]

With all that you just said, you keep Miles, do you really believe y' all compete for a championship this year?

[Joe]

This year? If yes. See that, that's where my. I mean. No, no, no, no. I think we. To the playoffs. Stop.

[James Devo Harrison]

Let me talk to you. Let me talk to you again, Joe. You don't compete for a championship this year. Miles is a year older. You're hoping he plays well. You hope you do well next year comes, say it don't pan out the way y' all thought it was gonna

[Joe]

pan out next year, you know what I'm saying?

[James Devo Harrison]

Looking for a quarterback because if he. Even if Watson gets in there and plays well, he's gone. You're not gonna pay him another bag. So now you sitting with Shador and you're okay, you know, or if he starts, whatever it may be. But obviously you're saying you're not winning the championship. And I don't see you coming out on top in nowhere but the bottom of the AFC north right now. Now, next year does that with you guys doing what you did. If things pan out to a caliber that is considered good, not excellent in kids, somebody just blows out their mind and goes, you know, goofy. But what you would consider good, would that next year, then with Miles there, make you a championship caliber, competitive team.

[Joe]

I think this. This is. This is the main thing. The Browns, I think they won. I think Myles Garrett, he won. I think that the only loser, honestly, is not really a loser, is Verse. It's Jared, because end of the day, you end up going from you think you about to win a championship till you're going to the Browns and they're more on a rebuilding time, you know what I'm saying, instead of trying to go to the championship.

[James Devo Harrison]

So, Joe, you just. You just. You disagree with everything I said by saying that Verse was the loser in the situation because of where he came from to where he's at. That means that Miles leaving and going away is not something that is going to make Y' all a championship team. No time in the next two, three, four years. You got lucky by being able that he hit. When he hit at 30, you think Miles gonna come out there at 33 and throw up anywhere like the numbers that he did this year, hell to

[Joe]

the nose, I'd still be double digits. It'd still be around 14.

[James Devo Harrison]

I understand that. But those 23 didn't even get you no more than five wins when you could go and add three other players. A first, a second, a third.

[Joe]

Plus you got one organizational wise pick wanting to continue. You got versus young talent. You got another first round pick. If we don't get the quarterback, we're going to eventually need to get that because Miles with 23 sacks didn't get us to the level that a franchise quarterback is going to get us to. So I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying from there it is what it is. It's just the fan side of it. It's like I see now that the brands. But we're always still rebuilding. It always feels like you still rebuilding. So that's just where I'm looking at that. Where I'm looking like, damn, I understand. Let's just keep. Let's hit on these picks. Let's start. We got to get with the quarterback. Our offense eventually has to get better. So let's see if it is not going to be Shador. And then in 2017, we'll have to be able to go use that draft pick for somebody that they think you

[James Devo Harrison]

could use that draft capital. You could use that drive capital then for somebody that's already proven possibility of that like it's supposed to be a far better quarterback draft coming out in the next year. Like what, what? I understand, Joe. I understand. Listen, listen.

[Joe]

This year's draft class and I hate,

[James Devo Harrison]

I hate trying to, you know, I won't say, hey, I dislike trying to show you the, the light at the end of the tunnel because it shows that y' all are actually trying to do something right and you're not Browning all the way around. So the fans. I'm just telling y', all, y' all used to being down. Why are y' all upset? You don't have somebody that you could say is, you know, the best player in the game and y' all still suck and. Or would you have the. Rather have. Would you rather have a team that is very good and now you're competing.

[Joe]

How are we still going to be competing if Miles Garrett was on the team this year and everything went well? If Shador were to play at the level I think he could play at, if Miles Garrett was to be out there and we would have had the number one defense, then I think next season if we would use those draft picks that we had without reading him, you had.

[James Devo Harrison]

You had the number one.

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[James Devo Harrison]

On defense last year, what did it do for you?

[Joe]

We didn't have the number one. Our offense was.

[James Devo Harrison]

Y' all had it. Y' all lost it. That was all. Y' all started getting ran on saying,

[Joe]

run it, run it back. I could see the part where we could. We could have cut it. For what?

[James Devo Harrison]

Joe, you've seen it for the last nine years. What it looks like we got. You're wasting him. You got an opportunity to hit. You got four players, bro. Two first, a second and a third. You got a right play right now. Player that you know can play in this game, that can come in and feel he can't. He ain't gonna get you 23, but he damn sure ain't.

[Joe]

No, he's not a slouch, Debo. But I just, just.

[James Devo Harrison]

We.

[Joe]

Our defense, did we get better or did we get worse?

[James Devo Harrison]

Did you get better? As a test. Okay.

[Joe]

No, I'm asking you, did we get better or did. Did we get worse?

[Ryan Seacrest]

When?

[Joe]

For next. For this season coming up. Oh, of course.

[James Devo Harrison]

You lost. You lost.

[Joe]

We got worse. So that's what I'm saying. I understand for in the future, but right now, when we're talking about the 2026 season.

[James Devo Harrison]

But you don't necessarily know that. You don't necessarily know that. This may be a different coordinate, a different collaboration that may actually help the defense.

[Joe]

I don't give a damn where you

[James Devo Harrison]

Gotta look at 2000. Think about 2006. Joey Porter left. They like, oh, it's over with. I'm starting. It's 2007.

[Joe]

I.

[James Devo Harrison]

We go in. We go in that year and we get number one defense. We end up number one. The year before, I think we was like a eight or nine

[Joe]

okay, we

[James Devo Harrison]

look everybody like who is this right here?

[Joe]

They ain't know who I was

[James Devo Harrison]

like what are we talking about? We're talking about. Okay, yeah. Right now on paper this is what it looks like. Let it get out there.

[Joe]

Miles Gary is different. Miles Garrett, you could put him on any, any team but he's going to be better, the team's going to be better.

[James Devo Harrison]

He didn't make a difference in y' all wins.

[Joe]

I don't give a that. But I'm saying if you take him off our team, it's not gonna, it's gonna make, it gonna make our team worse.

[James Devo Harrison]

Dude, Joe, you gotta let the fan and you go and put in your GM hat, bruh. You gotta put on your gm and

[Joe]

that's what I'm saying. The season is still happening. Our defense is going, we're going to see what they're going to do. Offense, we're going to need to watch them and see if they can finally produce. But I'm understanding with the picks in the future. But I'm saying though as of in the 2026 season just now our defense got better, offense didn't change. We still got the draft picks, we still got the people that we signed during free agency to restructure our line. So now we're going to see what those rookies going to do. We're going to see what fan and Harold Fannin is going to do in his second year. Judgings comes back, you know what I'm saying? So we're going to see what they look like if our offense can average 20 some points. But now we're going to look at the D now because Miles being gone. I don't give a damn where you put Miles on whose team. If he's on your team like your defense is going to just be better.

[James Devo Harrison]

I understand that. But they defense was a step away from winning the Super Bowl. That's why he makes a grave difference over there than what he does.

[Joe]

Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland. Yes. Yes. For Miles Garrett, he's going to be playing on a team that's scoring points. He's going to be having the offensive MVP on his team. Debo, that's going to be crazy. He doesn't understand it when your team is just literally scoring points all the time. When I went over there to Pittsburgh

[James Devo Harrison]

and saw Ben, he's going to find out

[Joe]

his numbers are going to be crazy. They got the prime time games.

[James Devo Harrison]

Don't you want that for him? So much of a fan you trying to kill and crush his career because you Want him to sit there in the Browns and die, let his career go to nothing, not even have a chance.

[Joe]

Like I don't want that for him. I got cut. They tried to take me, make me have a pay cut. I was not on Miles Garrett level. It would have been on Joe Thomas.

[James Devo Harrison]

You chose to leave. You chose to leave. You could have taken pay cut.

[Joe]

The reason why, just like he should.

[James Devo Harrison]

He should. He should stay there and you should have stayed there.

[Joe]

Do you think Joe Thomas. He was just. Joe Thomas was there believing the same way that the Browns was going to build organization. He never said nothing. He brought his work pail. He brought his boots and everything to work every day.

[James Devo Harrison]

And look how it panned out.

[Joe]

He went first ballot hall of Fame, but he was never first ballot hall of Fame.

[James Devo Harrison]

That's great.

[Joe]

He was never able to get.

[James Devo Harrison]

He is one of the best tackles to play the position. First ballot. That is great. You ain't got a Super bowl that brown care wouldn't.

[Joe]

But that's what I'm saying.

[James Devo Harrison]

The difference was didn't even get to walk or get into the game itself.

[Joe]

The difference was Miles finally told him end of the day he knew that if he wanted to be there, the best of his best wasn't going to give it to him. So when he told him I demand to get traded, they ended up paying in the bag. He stayed for this next last year, this ninth season gave him 23 sacks. He then just didn't report back. He's like, how much I'm. I'mma keep balling no matter what. If I'm on the field, I'm going to play, but I'm going. I told you guys that I really don't think that it's going to work out here. I'm trying to go win the ship. I'm going to continue to be here and ball out because I'm a professional. Y' all gave me the money, so I'm here. But I want to go play elsewhere. I'm trying to go really win a championship. I can continue to get all these Pro Bowls, all these defensive player of the years. I'm going first Battle hall of Fame. I don't want to go from Cleveland to Canton. I want to go get a Super bowl and then you know what I'm saying. So just legacy wise 4 miles. I'm with you 1000%. I'm not. I'm just saying too on that's why I was on the fan side of and why the Browns would want to move on, why we would look at it like, dang, if we really think we can do something, Miles is like, guys, your organization is on a different timetable than me. It's been nine years. I gave y' all straight Pro Bowl, Pro bowl, defensive player of the years, and there's no playoff wins. There's no chance of me sniffing the Super Bowl. So if I were to go to the Rams, these dudes ready when they brought Matthew Stafford, they have weapons. Miles is going to put them over the top. They don't need. They don't. They don't. They don't get there regardless. Now, when you got Miles, he's just bringing himself onto a roster that's like, okay, now we got another whole hitter. Are you kidding me? You know?

[James Devo Harrison]

Yes. Thank you for coming over, Joe.

[Joe]

So, no, Debo. That's when I come. When I'm talking from the player. When I'm talking from Miles Gary's perspective, I say he won't. You know what I'm saying? For sure. He's. Man, I. I'm happy for him every. I'm happy for him to be able to go out there and get to play during meaningful times. Because Miles Garrett, there's no reason why he shouldn't be. It. It's not his fault that the Browns haven't won the Super Bowl. If he deserves to be on the super bowl team for sure.

[James Devo Harrison]

Yes. Yes.

[Joe]

He.

[James Devo Harrison]

He got. He got a. He got a Hall of Fame. He got a Hall of Fame career already. First ballot. He deserves to have that chance and opportunity to go and win him a championship. And ain't nothing wrong with that.

[Joe]

I will have those memories. He will always be the best one. Him and Jim. Him, Jim Brown, Joe T.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, Joe, I ain't gonna lie to you. If he go over there to the Rams, he stay over there for, say, four, maybe five years, whatever they left on his contract.

[Joe]

He got three years left on his deal.

[James Devo Harrison]

He got three. He stayed there for three years. He get him two of them things. What are you going. What.

[Joe]

What He.

[James Devo Harrison]

Joe. What is he going into the hall of Fame as? Do I want to go in a Browns jersey with no super bowl, or do I want to go in a Rams jersey with Super Bowls?

[Joe]

I don't know. Ooh, he's going there. He's probably going in with you. I don't know. I don't know.

[James Devo Harrison]

What do you think if it was.

[Joe]

You can. You can.

[James Devo Harrison]

You came. Is all about three years, but you can.

[Joe]

Is all about Super Bowls. Canton is all about Super Bowls.

[James Devo Harrison]

So what you got to put On Joe

[Joe]

what you got to go where I won the rings.

[James Devo Harrison]

No question.

[Joe]

Because that's all they talking about during the speeches is the rings and the ceremonies. That's what it was about. Hey, that was wild.

[James Devo Harrison]

You talk about the time that you spent at Cleveland bumping up all them numbers and never getting to the playoffs and winning and the times you won, you know, four or five games, three games, whatever.

[Joe]

They was just talking about my dog. Like, that's crazy. I always go back to Joe Thomas, but just because his level of consistency and it was never Joe Thomas fault like he was first all Pro all. You know what I'm saying? Pro Bowls every time, didn't miss a snap for 10 years straight. So it's like he's wanting to go with the organization, trying to do his best thing. And they're going to keep you if you're top flight, if you're all pros, every single year, good to go. Same thing with Miles. All pros every year they going to pay you what you deserve because you're that caliber of player. But your team around you during your career may be on the same on a different type timing than you are. They're growing. They need more pieces. There's teams out there that just need one sometimes. The Eagles need a piece, you know what I'm saying? The Chiefs always reloading. When you got that quarterback, when you have that head coach, when you got that core, man, then you just, you know what I'm saying? You like, man, last year we just needed a little, like our secondary is a little messed up. Let's go get Trent McDuffie. All right, bet. And then they went crazy and not only went and got Trent, but your team. So now you went and go get Miles. So Rams are in different situations now. Hopefully the Browns will be in the Rams situation five, six, you know what I'm saying? Five years.

[James Devo Harrison]

That's what he's working to a thousand percent.

[Joe]

But being a Browns fan today and being a Browns fan for years, it's like you hear that you've been working on something for them to be good in a long time, for them to be good in the future.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh yeah.

[James Devo Harrison]

But you got to understand like the people that y' all had working towards that didn't really have the. They, they had the idea, but they didn't have the, the actual map routed out of how to actually get there. Like, oh yeah, I'm go to California, but I don't know which, you know, I don't know what highway I'm take to get there like you. You probably not gonna make it there. You know, like, they're the Rams. They using draft capital. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe]

Yes.

[James Devo Harrison]

And they're using draft to keep their stuff together. Y' all doing it. Y' all just did it by using actual player to acquire more draft capital and a player, bro, like. And he got what he wanted. Y' all got what y' all wanted. And then the timeframe, like you said, the three years he got left that y' all not winning the championship in three years. Like, you lucky if y' all make it to the playoffs in two. So when it really come down to it, like, this is the only move, the most appropriate move for y' all as a organization. Now, the fans, they don't understand it because they're fandom. That's the thing. They just keep the personal connection.

[Joe]

Switch now to the fan. I'm a fan.

[James Devo Harrison]

Exactly.

[Joe]

I'm a fan. I want us to be good right now. And then we drafted. I'm liking what we was doing there. And then this one just kind of threw me for a loop because I was thinking we were still going to be able to, you know what I'm saying, look good, but I think we still can look good this year.

[James Devo Harrison]

You can still look good. Defense gonna still look good.

[Joe]

Still look good.

[James Devo Harrison]

You're not about to go from where y' all in the middle of the pack.

[Joe]

It's our offense. It's our offense. I'm focusing on our offense. Looking good this season. Defense, come on, maintain. We got to do. We got to do. Jerry Verse, I'm rooting for you. He's trying to get a contract. He got two years left on his rookie deal, so he's trying to get right. And we need. Just go do his best. You got. Come on, you got. He's gonna prove it. So that's the thing for Verse two. He want to go get his bag. I know he's hungry. I might be a little upset, but let's go. I heard he's good dude. Motivated. Let's just. Just. Just be a football dude. Do your best. The only thing you can do is not get hog tied. Not. You know what I'm saying? Lead by example. You know what I'm saying? Don't be out.

[James Devo Harrison]

Right?

[Joe]

And I don't see that happening. I see him out there. I don't see him getting him out there balling. So we gonna see.

[James Devo Harrison]

Yeah. I mean, Miles actually separated himself in. In. In a fashion that was probably like.

[Joe]

It was.

[James Devo Harrison]

It was good. He didn't come up there. He didn't go to OTAs. He didn't sit down, talk with nobody, make like, yo, you know, I'm sitting here doing my. You know, he knew he wasn't gonna be there. So why go and give all the, you know, the fake enthusiasm and come down there like you about to be, you know, part of this team, defense, one of the leaders of this group. And you know already that that's not happening.

[Joe]

Hey, man. Yeah. All I know is shout out. Cause every. Just when he's on the field, he balled out. That's all I know.

[Jacob Goldstein]

That's all I know.

[Joe]

So when this was time, man, he like, man, I got to go do what I got to go do. I got to go do something.

[James Devo Harrison]

I mean, for us. I mean, him being there or not there, it's not. It's not a big deal to us. Miles ain't getting no sacks on us. You know what I'm saying? So we didn't have to worry about that last year. The 23. How many did he get?

[Joe]

Nothing on the Steelers duo. Okay.

[James Devo Harrison]

All right. I'm just checking. I'm just checking.

[Joe]

Another division was deep. Got him about it. Yeah.

[James Devo Harrison]

I'm just saying, bro. I'm just saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, y'. All. Hey. Good. Hey, Barry. Good job. Good job, man. For now. You just got it.

[Joe]

2029 season sure you picking them correct that new stadium opening in 2029 season. So they did. They. They plotting forward for it to look for the team. Hopefully to be nice by then. We gotta.

[James Devo Harrison]

For sure. For sure, for sure, for sure. Man, he. He. Man, he. He looking at the future. Look, y' all been so bad for so long. Cleveland Browns fans, dog pound, puppy pound, whatever y' all want to call y' all been bad for so long. What is another two or three years to come out on the other side?

[Joe]

That's all I'm saying. We gotta come out on the other side. We need to be just watching this season. I had to lower. Just make sure my ex. I just want him to do good. Just want him to do good. Let's watch and see. And let's figure out how these picks gonna do Casey, offense, Concepion. Let's see what Watson's on his way out. Shador. I'm going to have to. We got to see it because we need a quarterback.

[James Devo Harrison]

I got you.

[Joe]

God damn it. I can't believe he's still building. Yeah.

[James Devo Harrison]

Hey, listen, man, y' all gonna be at the bottom of the barrel again, which is where you should

[Joe]

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