Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Can Deshaun Watson Return To Form? + Lamar Jackson Disrespected in NFL Top 100?

Summary

Nightcap Podcast: Deebo & Joe - Part 1

Episode Theme:
Can Deshaun Watson Return To Form? + Lamar Jackson Disrespected in NFL Top 100?
Date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: James "Debo" Harrison & Joe Hayden

Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, NFL legends James “Debo” Harrison and Joe Hayden dive into two major topics:

1. Whether Deshaun Watson can ever return to his Houston Texans form after injury and off-field struggles.
2. The controversy surrounding Lamar Jackson’s dramatic fall in the 2026 NFL Top 100 players list and what it says about injury, reputation, and how NFL peers vote.

Mixing stats, personal stories, playful jabs, and behind-the-scenes NFL knowledge, Debo and Joe pull back the curtain on what determines success and respect in today’s NFL.

---

1. Deshaun Watson: Hope or Hopeless?

Segment Start: 10:44

Key Points

• Media Doubt: A Browns reporter declares Watson is "completely lost," never to return to old form:

  "I just don't believe that Deshaun Watson has anything there...he's never going to find it again." (James 'Debo' Harrison relaying quote, 11:21)

• Reviewing Watson’s Past Excellence:

  • “What I didn’t remember is actually how good Deshaun Watson was in Houston. That boy had, like, 4800 yards...led the league in passing, 33 TDs, seven interceptions. That's crazy.” (11:52, Harrison)
  • Since joining the Browns: only 61% completion, 3,365 yards, 19 TDs, 12 INTs (stats shared by Harrison at 12:29).

• Why the Decline?

  • “It’s been six years. He ain’t getting there even if he was healthy. Dude, that’s six years ago. He done got six years older.” (12:50, Harrison)
  • Loss of athleticism (his “superpower”):

    “With Deshaun Watson...it’s not going to be what it was. His athletic ability, his escape ability, him being able to move...is not going to be that after two ACLs, after these surgeries.” (Joe Hayden, 13:46)

• Quarterbacks Built Differently:

  • For guys like Dak Prescott, movement’s not key; but for Watson, “it was his athletic ability. That was his superpower.” (Hayden, 14:13)
  • Reference to Lamar Jackson and Michael Vick as dual-threat comparisons.

• Watson’s NFL Future:

  • “This year is going to be a make or break for him. If he gets the opportunity to play for the Browns...no matter what he does, if he gets to start, you’re putting out a resume for the other teams.” (Hayden, 18:18)
  • “We need to go with Shador...he’s not going to be the future for the Browns.” (18:59, Hayden)
  • “I want him to succeed. This year is make or break. But...he hasn’t looked that good. With the injuries and coming back, I'm [doubtful].” (18:34, Hayden)

• Effort Isn’t the Problem:

  • “It’s not that he wasn’t for a lack of trying ... his effort was out there, he was trying to get it done...But just the eye in the sky, the tape…doesn’t look the same.” (Joe Hayden, 22:25)
  • “When they start getting hurt...you’re just not going to come back and expect to be the same.” (Hayden, 22:49)

• Coaching Perspective:

  • “If I’m the head coach or GM...you ain’t really got a chance to start for me. Unless Shador crashes out and don’t get it done.” (Harrison, 23:18)

Notable Quotes

• “Completely lost it is an overstatement. But looking like he did in Houston? We're not going to get that.” (Hayden, 19:35)
• “He doesn’t look like he’s moving the same way, you know what I’m saying? ... What made him great was being able to run AND throw.” (Harrison, 21:36)
• “If you have dudes on your roster, let’s see what they can do. Give them a shot.” (Hayden, 24:26)

---

2. Lamar Jackson Plummets in NFL Top 100

Segment Start: 26:22

Key Points

• Jackson’s Drop:

  • Drops from #2 to #69 (down 67 spots) in the 2026 player-voted Top 100.

• Statistical Reality:

  • Last season: only played 13 games, 2,500 passing yards, 21 TD, 7 INTs, 349 rushing yards—a far cry from MVP seasons (Hayden, 26:56).
  • “Lamar Jackson at 75% could be the 69th best player. Lamar Jackson at 100% is the first or second best player.” (Hayden, 28:00)

• Nature of the List:

  • “The NFL is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately [league]. ... Last year, he wasn’t the number two player.” (Hayden, 26:56)
  • Both hosts agree Jackson is “not the 69th best player in the league, but his last season was not up to his standards.” (Summary, 27:56–28:48)

• How the List Works:

  • “It’s by the players, current players, only active players. Each player gets a vote for their top 20. First gets 20, second 19, all the way down.” (Harrison, 29:47)
  • “It’s probably a little bit of self-sabotage...you want your own quarterback higher. You put others lower.” (Harrison, 31:01)

• Manipulation and Honesty in Voting:

  • Behind-the-curtain insight on how “guys really be voting for their teammates and doing the rankings to help their own.” (Summary, 32:23+)
  • “When we did the Pro Bowl voting...we made sure our guy get in.” (Harrison, 32:48)

Notable Quotes

• “So it might not be the whole thing...it's [sometimes] self-sabotage as far as trying to get my quarterback a higher position.” (Harrison, 31:01)
• “No disrespect, but your name is who you are...But your season wasn’t as good as young Buck who came in here and spazzed.” (Hayden, 39:23)

---

3. Jordan Love & Player Reputation in the Top 100

Segment Start: 39:34

Key Points

• Jordan Love’s Slide:

  • Once ranked as high as #34, now at #72 after declining stats.
  • “Is he falling off or is it just that his years aren’t as effective as before?” (Harrison, 40:22)

• Context Matters:

  • “With Jordan Love, he doesn't have the weapons...If he had a number one receiver, he’d do more. He’s good.” (Hayden, 40:30–41:25)
  • Love “put up 4,100 yards, 32 TDs, 11 picks” in 2023, but numbers dropped after. "Of course you’re going to drop...if your numbers are continually dropping.” (Harrison, 41:25)

• How Peer Respect Plays Out:

  • Sometimes, known names with lesser years still make the top lists, blocking rising stars unless players are “honest and give new guys credit.” (Hayden, 39:34+)

Notable Anecdotes

• Players admit when they’re “lucky” on the field:

  “Sometimes, I was bombed up. Thank the Lord, someone made the play, because I was beat!” (Hayden, 44:28–44:38)

  • This humility, as well as peer respect, shapes real NFL sentiment on the list.

---

4. Fun Banter & NFL Locker Room Culture

Occurs Throughout

• Deebo and Joe roast each other over height, weight, and combine “official” NFL measurements:

  “I'm a full 2 inches taller than you. You just said 5'10 and 7/8 when you was 19...You almost 40. You done shrunk two inches!” (Harrison, 50:21)

  • Joe: “Your hair was part of that 7/8!” (50:44)
  • These back-and-forths set the laid-back, locker room authenticity.

• Inside Pro Bowl and NFL Top 100 voting mechanics—how players really game the system and sometimes “finagle” votes for friends:

  “We go vote for somebody that we know ain't gonna make it...so you eliminating the vote. I know I gave it to somebody you know ain't gonna make it.” (Harrison, 33:17)

---

5. Projecting Next Top 100 Candidates

Segment Start: 47:10

• Hosts speculate which of their guys will crack the higher positions in the Top 100.
• Discussion of their personal highest ranking on the Top 100 as players (“I got as high as 21.” – Harrison, 49:56).

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “It’s not the name, it’s the numbers. That’s why AB kept being number one—when you do it year after year, not just cause of your name.” (Hayden, 39:23)
• “You can’t help injuries. ... What have you done for me lately? And what he's done for us lately is not really show that good of a quarterback.” (Hayden on Watson, 19:53)
• “You got to get singularly focused on the 2025 season.” (Hayden, 49:24)
• “We gonna measure me barefoot, standing up. I promise you, I'm gonna be over six.” (Harrison, 06:42; playful banter)

---

Episode Takeaways

• Deshaun Watson’s return to form is doubted by both hosts, who point to the loss of athleticism and cumulative injuries.
• Lamar Jackson’s plunge in the NFL Top 100 reflects the brutal “what have you done for me lately” ethos—even MVPs are not immune.
• Fan and player admiration are two different things—the real Top 100 voting is highly politicized and full of inside gamesmanship, not just pure stats.
• Peer honesty, humility, and playful jibes are at the heart of the NFL brotherhood—and this podcast episode embodies that spirit.

---

Listeners get a rare, unfiltered look at how veteran players REALLY judge each other—and what matters most when the highlight reels stop rolling.

Transcript

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tremphyaradio.com the WNBA and baseball are heating up and with tennis slams and major golf tournaments on the horizon, you can make all your picks with all these events and more all summer long. On prize picks, America's number one sports apps pick. We got soccer going on too. The entire summer of soccer is on Prize picks all 48 countries in every matchup. And if you rep your side during the tournament on prize picks, you can win a trip to the final in New York. It's the biggest tournament ever, which means there's more opportunities for you to cash in while you root for your favorite national side and global soccer stars. Download the app today and use the code DEEBOJOE to get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. That code is DEEBOJOE for $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks a preferred partner of the NBA. Welcome back to this episode of Debo and Joe. I'm your host James Debo Harrison. I'm here with my co host Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like subscribe and download where you get your show and

[Joe Hayden]

like like the show. Come on, man. I'm gonna have to get talk.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

How you doing today?

[Joe Hayden]

Great today, brother Debo. I'm doing extraordinary. You see I got the guns out. Feeling good.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Hold up, hold up. What you got guns in there.

[Joe Hayden]

You see it? Debo, Stop acting like you like you hard to hear. You see him? You see these pythons?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Oh, yo, I thought you had some gun. I thought you were showing me guns.

[Joe Hayden]

Not, not literal guns. You know what I'm saying? Oh, heavy artillery on the biceps. On the biceps and triceps don't stop.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe. Heavy artillery, bruh. I don't have to get this close.

[Joe Hayden]

You see me, man?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Back.

[Joe Hayden]

Back up.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Hey, let me see. Put it in the camera.

[Joe Hayden]

Let me see.

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Back up.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Oh, I see. All right. You got it rocked up.

[Joe Hayden]

Did you get your work in this morning?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

You know I did.

[Joe Hayden]

I know you did.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

See? Hey, you say see that? That would have looked like.

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[Tab Ramos]

Yeah.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

You still see that thing?

[Joe Hayden]

You got more. You have more LBSs than me, you

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

know what I'm saying?

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What's that?

[Joe Hayden]

LBS. You have more pounds than me. So you just. You're just a bigger human being naturally.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I ain't victim, Joe. I ain't.

[Joe Hayden]

I know you're not.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I never been a victim.

[Joe Hayden]

You're just a big human being, Debo.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Hey, Joe. Last time I was evicting weight, I think I was. I was a child. I think I was. I might have been. I might have been a young, young, young man. I might have been 17. You know, I was around that 190. You know, I take it back. I take it back because my senior year, I was 6, 2, 2, 10.

[Joe Hayden]

So that is. No, you. You lying. You know you were six foot, £190. Still never got over six foot. You still not over six foot. You six feet, I get. I'll give you.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Now you've been. Now you're just being absolutely disrespectful.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm gonna give you six, man.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I'm six foot and a little bit with your shoes on, bruh. We go, bro, we gonna go to my doc. We're gonna go to. We're gonna go to a doctor, period. And we go measure me barefoot, standing up. Yeah, I promise you, I'm gonna be over six and we go in all this stuff that everybody be talking about, oh, he's six foot, if that. Barely six foot. Just a little under six foot.

[Joe Hayden]

All that thousand percent. If you measure six foot from a doctor that is not your doctor or my doctor. We going to a regular doctor. He don't know who you are. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna walk in there, take your shoes off, and we gonna measure.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Will we just walk into a clean somewhere?

[Joe Hayden]

Somewhere that's not somebody that's not gonna lie. Where we could be like, no, she ain't.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Nobody go like, Joe, you go right

[Joe Hayden]

there, you're gonna have your shoes off, heels on the ground, no tippy toes. Don't do that combine that way.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

We ain't got no.

[Joe Hayden]

That combine. That combine. You gonna Be on your tippy toes a little bit, trying to do the most. I'm like, debo, just stand normal and put your heels down. And then we'll see what my.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

What, what, what my heights. I don't know what they do at combine, but what my height say. I know what they did in my pro day. What my height say on the NFL.

[Joe Hayden]

It say six foot.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

They say six foot.

[Joe Hayden]

We go, all right, for sure. But you might have shrunk a little bit because, you know, you got. You know you're not gonna get taller. You're getting close to that. You might start going down, you know, once, twice, a child.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I was still. When I was 6 foot, I was over 6 foot. They just ain't giving me. Because I wasn't 6:1. They ain't say that. They ain't give me those. Those quarters and all that other stuff.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, for sure. Cause there was a little something. But I'm 511 and a 99, 100ths.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

So what's your height, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm 5. Honestly, you want me to. Really? All right. Honestly. Honestly, I am five ten and seven eights.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I didn't. Why are you talking about you taller than me?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm not taller than you.

[Tab Ramos]

But you.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

That was your combine.

[Joe Hayden]

That's my combine. I'm legitimate 5 10.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

And you don't got older, too, and you're not strong.

[Joe Hayden]

My back. I started getting taller. I started getting a little bit taller. I'm still maybe growing a little bit. I might have leveled up.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Joe, how old are you, Joe? You still growing?

[Joe Hayden]

Look, because with my stretching, with my stretching, my back has become.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

What is you, like a turtle? You live to be 2, 300 years old or something?

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no. I'm not gonna keep on.

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Right now.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm 5 foot 11. Somehow I grew just a little bit. I'm 5 11. Who told you you was 5 11? My doctor.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

He's a liar.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm telling you. We're both gonna go to. Not my doctor. Not your doctor. Just a.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Was that when you had braids and they was. They was measuring on top of the braids?

[Joe Hayden]

I think that might have been it. I think he might not have been to push down on my head enough yet.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I had no hair. I've been cutting my ball since college. Even when I did have a fade, it wasn't nothing but a little bit my height. Been my height. Since it's been my height, it's gonna be my height. To not be my height. It's gonna always be My five, eleven,

[Joe Hayden]

and ninety, Never gonna be hotter. I'm talking. I'm five. I'm five, ten, and seven eighths. You got me by one inch.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

No, you don't understand. You're not strong, and I'm taller than what they said they gave you. You seen you.

[Joe Hayden]

We've hung out. I need to look back at some of the film. When we are walking down. I need to go back to the. To the super bowl film. We're walking together, and I'm looking at you like. I'm looking at you literally like this. My dog, Debo. Look at. Look at Debo.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

We right here. We see it right here, bro. Stop playing.

[Joe Hayden]

Look, we all.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I'm looking down at you like this.

[Joe Hayden]

You looking at me like, what's up?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I'm like, what's up, bro? I'm down. I'm down here, like, what's up, bro?

[Joe Hayden]

We got matching Brent. We literally looking directly in each other's eyes. It's all good. We gonna. I'm gonna see you soon. I'm gonna see you soon.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, bro, you are out of control. I do. You're talking about you, actually.

[Joe Hayden]

Anyway, what we got, what we got?

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What we got?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Not gonna come back from that dude. That's what. Brown's reporter sounds the alarm with Desan Watson's catastrophic injury history. Brown's reporter, Nick Pete Pone, remains unconvinced that Desh Watson can return to his original form. He said, I hate to put it that way. I hate to put it that blunt, clear, cut, dry, because it makes it really hard on us to sell fans on hope for the next six to eight months that the Browns season can be anything.

[Joe Hayden]

Joe.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

He said, I just don't believe that desean Watson has anything there. And I really think that talking about all these videos and all this stuff is much ado about nothing because the guy has completely lost it. He's never going to find it again. Joe. Joe. He said he's never going to find it again. Listen, I ain't gonna lie to you, bro. What I didn't realize. Well, I ain't gonna say realize. I didn't remember. What I didn't remember is actually how good Deshaun Watson was in Houston. That boy had, like four, 800 yards. He was leading the league in passing, 33 touchdowns, seven. Only seven interceptions. Like, that's crazy. But I also didn't realize since he got to the Browns, like, how bad he has been since he was traded to the Browns. From Houston to Cleveland, Watson has completed 61% of his passes, 3,365 yards. That's it, Drew. That's it. With 19 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. Yo, that's out of control. So with that being said, Joe, you think. I ain't even saying he could get he. Bro, ain't no way in hell getting back to what he was. That ain't happening. It's been 20. That was 20 when he was in Houston.

[Joe Hayden]

Six, six years ago.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

It's six years. He ain't getting there even if he was healthy. Dude, that's six years ago. He done got six years older.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

And those ain't small numbers. That's almost 5K. Joe ain't getting there, especially not with y'. All. You know what I'm saying? But what do you. What do you think, Joe? You think. You think it's. He's like. He's saying it's over, it's done. No hope.

[Joe Hayden]

No. With Deshaun Watson, Debo. I hear what he's saying because watching the tape and knowing what Deshawn had back in 2020 was he can run and he can throw, and the one thing was his athletic ability, being able to scramble and he could do both. That's why when you talk about these numbers, 4,500 yards in all those stats, when he was doing that.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

4,000.

[Joe Hayden]

4,800 yards.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, 4,800. He was almost 5K.

[Joe Hayden]

He's. His stats were. He was up there. So when I'm saying now, when. When you start losing your athletic ability, and it's not that like with quarterbacks, with the scrambling, when we looking at. Now when I'm looking at Lamar Jackson, when I was looking at Michael Vick, the guys, that. That is their extra superpower. It's not that they cannot throw the ball. Great at throwing the ball still, but being able to do both is what makes their game completely different. With Patrick Mahomes, with Tom Brady, with Aaron Rodgers, it's never really their athletic ability. It's going to be able to get the ball out. It's above the neck. It's a lot of that. So with DeSean Watson, I'm saying with just above the neck, if it's going to be. I'm looking. It's not going to be what it was because his athletic ability, his escape ability, him being able to move and is not going to be that after two ACLs, after these surgeries and then just coming back. So I'm more of the fact that what he's saying is if it was like Dak Prescott when he hurt his ankle. Dak Prescott never was a real scrambler.

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[Joe Hayden]

Be able to run a little bit, but it's more just if I need to he's able to get the ball out. He's able to throw the ball and it's his arm I think that gets Dak Prescott to what he is. So when they're saying about desean, I'm in the same kind of boat. I want him to succeed this year is going to be a make or break for him because if he if he gets the opportunity to play for the Browns, you're you're putting like they always say, you're putting a resume out for the other 30 for the other team. So no matter what he does, if he gets to start for the Browns, he's doing it's going to be either you are you going to be Tua Tang Vailua, are you going to be Kyler Murray? Where now everybody knows if you come into our team, you're going a vet minimum. You know what I'm saying? We're not signing you for nothing. Basically, you're going to have to come prove it because you already made this money. Nobody else is going to take that chance. The injury history. So with him, he's got to put his best foot forward and that's what it's going to be for me. I'm with the guy. Like we need to go with Shador. He's not desean. He's not going to be the future for the Browns. We have him as a rookie contract as under rookie contract young Quarterback with these new parts, let's see what we can do. So I don't think desean, even if he goes out there and since we've had him, he hasn't looked that good. So I'm thinking that with the injuries and coming back, I'm.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

He said completely lost it.

[Joe Hayden]

Completely lost it is an overstatement. I say I think that he's reaching. But I'm saying as far as looking like he did before when he was in Houston, we're not going to get that. Like because that was prime. That was when he was young, ready to go, like can move. He was getting up out of bed.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

That's why that whole contract was.

[Joe Hayden]

Because they were expecting to get that 45, the 4800 yards and the touchdowns and just the athletic ability. We started getting the shoulder, the the off the field stuff. So he got suspended. Then when he came out, started getting hurt. And you can't help that, that things are going to happen, but you can only what have you done for me lately? And what he's done for us lately is not really show that good of a quarterback. So I'm saying just when I see him now, you're not going to get healthier than you know what I'm saying? Like you, I need you. You're not going to be running like you were in 2020. That's just it. Just the math. Doesn't matter if your knee isn't going to get. It's going to be healthy. But I know you can throw. But I need, I'm not going to be able to see that Desean. I know from 2020.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Well, you know, he said he in a better place mentally too though. You got to realize that, you know, maybe he can't. Maybe he can recapture a little bit of that, of that glory. But Joe, I ain't gonna lie. I'm with you. I don't see him, like I said, I don't see him getting back to the form that he was. I didn't, I've totally forgot he was

[Joe Hayden]

actually he was that. But that's why you get. That's what I had 235. That's what you got the 230 guarantee.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah. You know, because, because I hadn't really seen him do anything and then I, you know, looking at what his whole numbers were since he got to Cleveland, I didn't, I didn't, you know, know that they were that low either. 19 touchdowns, 12 interceptions. Like you damn near going one for one. That ain't. That ain't conducive to winning, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

I mean, the, the touchdown interceptions isn't really the, the bad. I was literally watching. It's not, it doesn't, it just doesn't look like he was moving the same way, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I mean, I'm not mad at 19 and 12.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

So you, you, you believe a lot of his, a lot of his success was predicated on his movement. Dude, he had 4, 800. He wasn't trying to do too much of run. He was slanging the piss out that ball. I hate 4, 800. You ain't doing too much running on that man. Like Lamar, you know, Lamar Jackson, go get you, you know, you know, three something and, and another thousand rushing or something if you let him do it to you, you know what I'm saying? That's gonna be his 45, 4800 or something like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, but dude, he was, he was

[Joe Hayden]

doing, yes, he was definitely throwing the bar, he was slinging the pillow. He was doing a little bit of everything.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Two back to back Achilles. And then, you know, the issue with the, the lawsuit that went on and, and then the shoulder, he played through, he played through some of that.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, for sure. He goes, it's not that he wasn't for a lack of trying, you know what I'm saying? His effort was out there, he was trying to get it done. But what have you. It's just the eye in the sky, the tape, what I've seen from him, being able to be back there under center just doesn't look the same. And after injuries, I'm not, you know, Conor McGregor. People, when they start getting hurt and things start happening like you're just not going to come back and all of a sudden you expect them to be the same as they were. I'm like, you hope for the best, you want them to succeed, but it's like if they don't and you start seeing it like, I'm like, it was kind of a little bit of the writing was on the wall that they could still be a, maybe a backup quarterback or just, just show them what, what can you do? But knowing that, that Deshaun Watson In 2020, we don't know if we're going to see that same player because that dude was elite. He was one of the best players in the, in the entire football league.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, for me, I hate to say it, but I think it's like, I think it's just lip service if in my opinion, I Think it may be lip service because if I'm the head coach or the gm, you ain't really got a chance to start for me. Unless Sedora goes in here and crashes out and don't get it done because I'm not gonna play you and then be stuck having to pay you something next year because I didn't give myself opportunity to see at least Shador. And I'm gonna give myself if they keep Green. Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

They drafted two. You got. You have quarterbacks on your roster that you drafted for a reason. So when we saying, like, oh, no, I'm gonna get an extra draft, we got dudes on the team right now. We have Shador Sanders, we have Jalen Green. Dylan Gabriel got his opportunity. So, like, we go. If you don't think Dylan's got. Now we have two dudes. I think Shador still needs to his rest of his chance. Jalen Green to the draft. Like, quarterback is what we obviously need. But let. If you have dudes on your roster, let's see what they can do. Give them a shot.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Got to. You got to. Especially like you said, when you already. You still under that rookie as a quarterback. And if you could go out there and do something and show something like.

[Joe Hayden]

And you getting rid. And you're doing at the same time that you traded Miles to get another good Jared Verse and picks. So if your door starts hooping, you can fill up spots to be like, okay, we got a quarterback under the, in a. In a rookie contract. So now this is where we can bring in other dudes, like, pay them and draft well to add. Like, just get depth. Yeah.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

It's gonna be interesting to see how. How y' all camp turn out.

[Joe Hayden]

Who.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Who ends up being the. Being the starter. I believe it's going to be Shador just for the simple. Like, it's nothing. Like you said, it's no future with him. And I think it'll be Shador if he can, you know, if he can show. Like, he would literally have to do the least to not get this starting job if it was me. I'm just saying, like, because I need to see. I gotta build for the future if I'm. Am I gonna have to draft the guy next year? Because I know I'm not gonna have to sign next year. Is Shador going to be the guy? I need to see if he's going to be the guy. If I go halfway through the season, I realize he's not the guy. Now I gotta draft somebody. I don't put all that I Got all that draft capital. Now I got a chance. Plus, you gonna be trash. Y' all gonna be.

[Joe Hayden]

If Shador doesn't do well, we gonna be losing games. So then we get a higher draft pick a quarterback. So it's going to be what it's going to be. So hopefully let's go out here, see what the hell's going on. Give my man a shot. And that's the Shador wants. I don't, I don't. I think that he knows he can do better. Like, I'm not on shadow. Like, oh my. He's going to be our savior. I'm willing to see give the man a shot. If he doesn't do well this year, I'm going to be right here saying like, damn, that was not good. We out here throwing picks. He didn't, he wasn't growing. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, get a man opportunity though.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Definitely got to see I, I think a, a big jump in growth from last year. This year if, if it's going to be Shador and you guys are going to roll with him without getting somebody next year in the draft. So Lamar Jackson the top 100. It came out. And I guess Lamar Jackson has been ranked at 69 this year in the 2026 top 100 list. He dropped 67 spots from last year's list. Joe, agree with this. You against this. What'd you think, John?

[Joe Hayden]

Look, it's. The NFL is a. What have you done for me lately? So you can't just say Lamar, obviously, Lamar Jackson. His last year when he was ranked number two, he threw for four 100 yards, 41 touchdowns, four picks, ran for, ran for damn near a stack. Ran the ball 139 times for 915 yards. So obviously we know Lamar Jackson, who he is. He only played 13 games last year and he ran the ball 67 times. Only ran for 349 yards through for 2,500 yards, 21 picks and seven interceptions. So for Lamar's standards, he's wasn't as good as he was last year. So obviously it's a. What have you done for me lately? We're not saying Lamar Jackson isn't who he is, but you got to continue and put it in the bank every single season. So last season he wasn't the number two player. You could say he's not the. When we say it sounds crazy. Like, no, Lamar Jackson, we know he's not the number 69th best player in the NFL.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

You think he's 60 right? Do you think he's 69, but last

[Joe Hayden]

season lower or higher? I think last season that would be okay to put him there a thousand percent. Like just from his statistical standing and how he was injured, his hamstring, he wasn't running like the way we was watching him sometimes, like Deebo, like, oh, he not hitting the corner like he used to because it's just, he was dealing with a hammy. So Lamar Jackson at 75% is this, it could be the 69th best player in the league for show. Lamar Jackson at 100% is the second first best player in the league. He showed that. So I don't think it's bad. Like nobody's knocking him. It's just you've seen what he's at, what he's capable of. So when you set your standard to what it is and other people are playing, other people are playing well too. They putting up better numbers.

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[Joe Hayden]

It's each season. So it's seasonal. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I'm just rocking with a seasonal. We're not saying, like.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I understand.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so you think, what do you think he should have been higher?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

And it's, it's not. I'm, I'm agreeing with, with what they came out with. I'm cool with. I'm cool with that. I think he could have been a little higher. But when you take away or, you know, he's, he lost what made him that, you know, elite quarterback which was being able to use his legs and, and getting, and being a, a double threat, then, yeah, it's, it's going to drop you. But hey, 67 spots.

[Joe Hayden]

That's 67 spots. But just look at his, just look at. Comparable to the seasons that he had, like the numbers.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. This right here is the, I mean, it is what it is because when it comes down to it, here's the big thing on this, this, this, this top 100, you know, the players, the players, current players, only active players.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

It don't matter what the media thing, it don't matter what the coaches think. It's current active players only. Okay? So this is how it works, though. When you go and you do the, you do the ranking, you do the top. Because 20. It's top 20. Yeah. So you do the, you vote for the, you rank the top 20 players in the league and you, you put them at, you know, 1 through 20. Okay? So each player gets a vote and based on where that vote is, it's a number attached to it. So a first place vote gets you 20 points, a second place vote gets you 19 points. And then a 20th vote gets you 1 point. And then that goes from first all the way to 20 with the points going from 20 all the way down to 1. Okay. Now and then NFL Films, they total up the points from the ballots and the highest guy is number one all the way down to whoever is the hundredth highest. That's how you get your 100 current players. Okay. Now it's one or two things that's happening here. All right, so which is what you thinking, Debo?

[Joe Hayden]

What's going on?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Listen, listen, I hate to say this joke, okay, but it's probably a little bit of maybe self sabotage. I like to see. So you think they're hating as far. So here. So you know how you do the voting, right? Here's something else too. When we do the voting, you remember we did the voting, right? We did it in season after practice. How many guys actually went in there and really sat down and did the whole thing? And how many guys didn't do nothing was like, yo, I'm getting out of here, I gotta get up. Yeah. So it might not be the whole thing. And then again, like I say, it's, it's self sabotage as far as like you're trying. I'm trying to get my quarterback a higher position. All right, so. And since we're talking about quarterback, let's talk about.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, okay.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I go and I know Matthew Stafford is going to get votes. I know he might, he might get the, the number one. Say he's the best player in the league this year. He's a quarterback. I know he's going to get the number ones.

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[James 'Debo' Harrison]

He's going to get that. Put at number one. But I want my quarterback. I feel like my quarterbacks will be up there too. So instead of me voting him one, I might put him at 20, put my quarterback at one. And here's something else.

[Joe Hayden]

That's that.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah. As in the Pro bowl. With the Pro bowl, you can't vote for your players.

[Joe Hayden]

That's the Pro Bowl. We took the Pro bowl seriously. And I was making sure. We made sure. Cause we had an OG and you could only, you had to vote for the corners. We only vote for the receivers. And did y'. All, who did, who did the linebackers

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

vote for when we, when I first came in and started doing it. I ain't gonna lie to you, bro. You voted for everybody.

[Joe Hayden]

For everybody, man.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

And it was D. It was you come in, it's up on the board. Hey, this is who we voting for. It's these three. I'm like, who is that? Why we voting? Oh, well, we got to make sure that our guy get in. We ain't gonna vote for subs. We know people gonna vote for subs. Us, we got to make sure our guy again. So we go vote for nobody. We go vote for somebody that we know ain't gonna make it. So you eliminating the vote. I know I gave it to somebody you know ain't gonna make it.

[Joe Hayden]

That's the. That's the finagle. That's the finagle.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, that's the finagle.

[Joe Hayden]

Or.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Or they actually feel this way. This is what it is.

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[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I can't stop scratching my downtown.

[Joe Hayden]

Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

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[James 'Debo' Harrison]

the players now they know this is hey Lamar Jackson like you said he ain't dude that he was last year. So coming into 2026 his ranking gonna be lower. You know and he's not. He's not gonna get it get us.

[Joe Hayden]

I think that's the one reason too when if younger dudes or people that weren't on the list before, it's hard for you to Crack in. Because there's so many people that's just like, no, he's in because of who he is. He's in because of who he is. It's like, you can't do that because that's when you start pulling away from other dudes that had great seasons. And just. Because, like, we're not saying he's better than him, we just say he had a better year. So, like, that's the only part where I'm looking at it, where it's like, I like the way that the players are sometimes when you're just being honest on it. Like, nah, this dude right here gave me work. Nobody might not know his name, but that's the only way you can break it in. Because like Pro Bowls, if somebody had zero, like, less sacks than the young dude that came in 15 sacks, but a dude that everybody knows he had 10, and he's just getting voted in because that's just what he does. You gotta have the players like, no, no, no, this dude gave me work. You know what I'm saying? So just legitimately, that's the only way you can be able to kind of crack the code and get kind of real rankings. It's like, no disrespect, but your name is who you are. We're not knocking you. But your season one isn't as good as young Buck Youngba came in here and spazzed. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like you just knowing people and like, just doing what they do. That's good to do. But if you're still putting your name and your numbers, that's why, like, with AB like AB you going to be consecutively the number one. Just trying to go triple crown or leading the league in receptions and in yards. That's why you can be who you are when you do it several years in a row. Because it's not just like somebody going to say, oh, no, like, AB is just the best. Look at his numbers, look at what he's doing. Like, all that is why we're saying it.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You got, you got Michael Parsons. He was. He wasn't happy with Jordan Love's ranking at a 72. At the 72 player in the NFL. I guess Michael Parsons took issue with his quarterback. Jordan loves NFL 100 ranking, saying 71 players in the NFL aren't better than Jordan Love, man. Love has been ranked in the top 100 after each of his three season as the packers throwing quarterback. But his ranking has steadily declined in 24. He was 34, 25, 68. And this year he is 20. Sorry. 72.

[Joe Hayden]

Yo.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Is he falling off or is it just the years he's having isn't as effective as the year before?

[Joe Hayden]

It's probably just not as effective as the year before. And I think that with Jordan Love, he's. He doesn't have the weapons. I think he's going to just get better and better because he's. When I see, like Dak putting up the numbers and I see just Joe Burrow, Jordan Love doesn't have, I say, his receiving core. It's not like you, when you name one of them. They're just the good. The good receivers, don't get me wrong, but there's not one that you say is a top 10 receiver in the league. So he has more guys that are just kind of scheme guys. I think if he had a number one receiver out there, I think he'd be able to even do more work. So I think it's no knock on Jordan. I just think that. I think he's good. I think they kind of just. With the team success, I think they want to probably have more with the team success, but I think that he's doing a really good job with what he has. I think if he has more weapons, I think that he would be even higher on the list and had better numbers.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, I. I would. I would agree with you. I think, like you were saying, what a lot of people don't realize is that that 20. What is that? That 24 ranking. That 24 ranking is from his what, 23 numbers, dude. His 23 numbers, the man had 4,100 yards, 32 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, and then come 25, where they dropped him to a. A 68. That's his 24 numbers. And his 24 numbers. He was only ranked 34, but that's because he only had three, 300 yards, 25 touchdowns, 11 interceptions. So when he went from that to backing it up to actually almost, what is it, 800 yards less, another seven, eight less touchdowns, and still the same number. Interceptions, of course you're going to drop. And then I may have a little bit of leniency and like, okay, like, he went into 72. Like, dude, I ain't got none, man. His numbers dropped again. He got better, and he didn't throw as many interceptions, you know. You know, this year in 25 or this past year in 25, like, you should drop and your numbers are continually dropping. Like they're expecting you to actually go. They're thinking, okay, we'll put him out of 34. And, and, and you know, 24. Because he's gonna. He's gonna increase in. In. Sorry, we'll put him at 20, 34 and 24 from his 23 numbers because he's going to increase in 24 for his 25 ranking. And he didn't. So he got dropped. And then he got dropped again. Like, I, I think he might be out of. Dude, you got Laura Jackson. I don't know, bro. At a 69, him at a 7. Well, again, he wasn't healthy. We got to go off.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm saying.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

This list. See, I'm thinking of Lamar Jackson.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm thinking Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson. When Lamar, that's when, when he was. You saw he was number two. Because that's like you gonna see you when you see it on the field that season, we gonna say. That's why one thing I do like about it. Cause it moves because it ranks you how you're doing this season. So it could be a rookie that just came in, you balled out. That doesn't mean you're better quarterback than a guy or better receiver fully. But you had a better year this year. You came in there numbers like you went crazy your last year. You know what I'm saying? Your previous year was better. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I do like about the. The NFL type 100 list. Because if you ball out, it gives you notice so people can start seeing what's going on. Because the people that the players, they know the most, you know when you really want to see, like, who was dogging me that like, nobody would know about the dude like miming, man, this dude right here, he was routing me up. He might not get the recognition. He didn't even get the ball thrown to him on here. But like, he's nice with it.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

If he had that move, if he

[Joe Hayden]

would have did that.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I was bombed. I was bombed.

[Joe Hayden]

Thank the Lord. Like, it's been a couple. Like, thank you. See somebody get a sack. I'm going running to my boys. Yo. Thank you. I was bombed up.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I was. I was beaten like a dog. Hey, listen, listen. I'll tell you so the super bowl, right where I ran the ball back. So the person that was supposed to be on that receiver, it was the Shay Thompson, right? So he beat to say on the slant inside, right? And you know, afterwards, you know, we. We're sitting there and we're chilling, we're talking whatever she Said, she said, hey, thank God. Thank God you dropped the COVID spirit. He said, because he said, I was beat like a.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on, bro.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

He said, I guessed on the wrong house.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm telling you. I'm telling you, dudes know, listen, you out there exposed, somebody fall into your coverage, helping you out. Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank you.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah. So what ended up happening is I ended up talking. Who was the OC at the time. I forgot who the OC Was. But anyway, I ended up talking to somebody and they were like, I think it was the head coach, wasn't I think. Or was he the oc? I don't remember. Anyway, I ended up talking to him, and it was Ken Windsor Hunt. And he was like. He was supposed to be wider, I guess, lined up and not in that type. So the fact that he was in tight, I think is why say guessed that he was going to cut out, but he actually cut in. And him being that type put me right in the window. Yeah. Where the ball was going. I guess if he was a little

[Joe Hayden]

wild, had to reach out because maybe got it squeezing in there.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was. But yeah, that's why that's. Again, his rankings is what it is from this year. Yes. It should drop. It's a little less. It's not. It's actually a little less. It's better in one area. A little less. Couple hundred yards. What is it? You're not even a couple hundred yards. It's like 7 yards less interceptions, though. But still, it's not what they were or what it should be. As far as what your previous ranking was from that 23 season to the 24, the 25. And yeah, I ain't tripping on it, but, you know, a lot of these players, you want to see. You want to see your. Your players be ranked higher. You want to see.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Ain't nothing wrong with it.

[Joe Hayden]

Believing his quarterback. That's my quarterback. That's what you need.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Them 61 through 100 is all that's released right now. I guess we go see what happens where the. Less. Where the other ones are.

[Joe Hayden]

Damn.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Who you think. Who you think we're gonna have.

[Joe Hayden]

We gonna have TJ on there. We gonna have P. Lil Peasy on there. We gonna have Jalen. Is Jalen already on there? We gonna have Cam on there and we gonna have. What's my. We're gonna have our. What's. What's. What's our old lineman,

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

The center. Oh, my goodness. I can't come up with his name right now.

[Joe Hayden]

But yes.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Okay. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know that's gonna be for sure. That's. That's. And I think it's gonna be Joey Porter Jr. He might be the highest ranked. I mean, her now, Herbin Herbert, her. He ain't gonna slide on there yet. He ain't gonna.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Him

[Joe Hayden]

gonna get on there. T.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I think.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't think gonna make it because what have you done for me lately?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about last year.

[Joe Hayden]

It's peasy.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

You know, he had injury and all that in J. Yeah, I get Cam Jaylen. Why can't I come up with his name right now? Okay, that's it.

[Joe Hayden]

They already say Joey's 32. Young peasy. Already got ranked?

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

No, I don't think so. I think they only reached up to 67 right now. So we don't know.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, they might be. It might be projections out for maybe next season. But yeah, I don't think on the top 100. We only out to 67 right now.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

The NFL list is 61 through 100.

[Joe Hayden]

That's released.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Okay, that's it. And then I guess the rest. It comes out okay. The rest of the leading up through the off season.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

we got Kelsey, 79, Baker 77.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Baker Sunday. Okay. It's last year. I can't.

[Joe Hayden]

You gotta get. You gotta get singularly focused on the 20, 25 season.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, I got. I gotta look at last. Yeah, I'm tripping.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm tripping because I'm telling you, the list will throw you sometimes. You like? You like? No, but I'm like, listen, it's just last year. You know what I'm saying? Just last season. Look at how that man played last year. That's it. No more, no less, one year.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Yeah, because when they. Yeah, when they first started, I think it was like 2000. Was it 10, 11, 12, something like that?

[Joe Hayden]

It might have been.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Where they start that 10, 11. I ain't tripping, Joe. I got as high as a 21.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, you got me by two.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Guy ain't tripping, Joe. I ain't tripping. I got you by two and two.

[Joe Hayden]

No, Debo, you got me by 7 8th inches in height.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Stop, stop.

[Joe Hayden]

You're not even a full.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I'm full. I'm full. I'm a full. I'm a full 2 inches taller than you. You just fight. You just said 5, 10 and 78 when you was 19 years old. You are almost 40. You done shrunk 2 inches. I ain't gonna say 2 inches. But you done lost at least a half inch, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

All right, wait. I'm literally telling you. I got. I don't know how.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Your hair was part of that seventh ace. So Kick killed a seven, eight. Big old 510. Okay, now take a half inch off because your ass is old. You was five, nine and a half.

[Joe Hayden]

You talking about Debo? You're all right. I'm never gonna. I don't even want to go there. You are five' eleven and you know this.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

You disrespectful.

[Joe Hayden]

And seven eights.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

Stop. Stop. I shrunk. But you didn't. I ain't even had braids. You did. I had no hair.

[Joe Hayden]

That doesn't matter. They didn't. They didn't get my hair. I didn't have.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

They measured in between the hair.

[Joe Hayden]

When I was coming out of college, I had to face.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I want to hear.

[Joe Hayden]

I had.

[James 'Debo' Harrison]

I had to hear about it, Joe. I want to hear about it.

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