Nightcap Hour 2: Tim Duncan AND Wemby on SAME PATH + Mike Brown on FACING D Fox in NBA FINALS + Sacramento Kings INFRASTRUCTURE is BAD

Summary

Nightcap Hour 2: Tim Duncan & Wemby on the Same Path + Mike Brown on Facing D Fox in the NBA Finals + Sacramento Kings Infrastructure is BAD

Podcast: Nightcap
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe & Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson
Date: June 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into NBA playoff parallels, particularly between Tim Duncan's and Victor Wembanyama's early careers, the dynamic paths of player development for the Spurs, and hard-hitting discussions about the Sacramento Kings' organizational woes. The hosts also touch on personal anecdotes from their playing days, reflections on coaching legacies, and reactions to the latest WNBA news.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parallels Between Tim Duncan and Victor Wembanyama

• Segment Start: [02:49]
• Summary:
  • The hosts marvel at the nearly identical playoff runs by a 22-year-old Tim Duncan and Victor Wembanyama, pointing out their similar paths to the NBA Finals.
  • Quote:
    • "What parallels between Tim Dunker, Tim Duncan and Victor Wyama first playoff run are insane. 22 year old Tim Duncan, first playoff run, beat the Blazers...beat the Knicks in the NBA Finals. Wemby...defeated his rival Chet...in the NBA Finals." — Joe Johnson [02:49]
  • Both reflect on how the Spurs’ rebuild arrived “a year early” due to Wemby, comparing it to youthful upstart teams of the past.

2. Spurs' Young Core & The Pecking Order

• Segment Start: [03:16]
• Discussion about the youth and depth on San Antonio’s roster, with concern for keeping key players together long-term.
• Chad: “It's hard to construct a team like this to have all this talent on one team...in about two or three years, you gonna have a lot of these key pieces gone. But the core...they intact for the next at least decade.” [03:47]
• Joe: "At some point Dylan Harper is going to be My star...It probably gonna be next year. Oh yeah, it's gonna be either next year or the year after." [04:54-05:31]
• Dynamic of 'alpha mentality':
  • The hosts debate whether other young stars will accept being second to Wemby or start to want their own teams, paralleling Kobe’s eventual desire to be ‘the guy’.
  • Quote: “If he on your damn team. He gonna be option one and you gonna be two. Period, point blank.” — Chad (Ocho) Johnson [07:42]

3. Alpha Dog Mentality & NBA Hierarchies

• Segment Start: [06:41]
• The group discusses the chemistry challenges when too many “alphas” are on the same squad, using the Shaq-Kobe Lakers as an example.
• Quote:
  • "When Kobe got there in '96, who thought Kobe was better than Shaq?...But what Kobe turned himself into with that relentless drive and work ethic? Yes, he became that.” — Joe Johnson [08:19-08:33]
• “There are certain things you can't coach…Some people got it, some don't.” — Lenny Wilkins [10:37-10:53]

4. Facing Your Demons & Playoff Mentality

• Segment Start: [10:57]
• Using addiction as a metaphor, Joe Johnson discusses how players have to confront their toughest challenges to truly grow.
• Quote:
  • “There's a saying that says we create our demons, only we can chase them away. Yeah, we going to Houston, damn it. We going to Houston. I'm gonna chase my demons away.” — Joe Johnson [12:22]

5. Mike Brown on Facing Former Players in the Finals

• Segment Start: [16:46]
• Mike Brown is quoted on the challenge of facing his connections from San Antonio and De’Aaron Fox:
  • "They definitely want to beat me, and I want to kick their ass. I love them. And you could always love them before and after." — Joe Johnson quoting Mike Brown [16:46]
• The hosts relate with their own stories of returning to play against former teams, emphasizing the motivation and extra edge in such matchups.
• Quote:
  • "When you playing your former team, bro, you be so in tune...you want your damn get back, you know..." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [19:39]

6. Coaching and Black Championship Legacies

• Segment Start: [27:37]
• The rarity of Black head coaches winning NBA championships is discussed, listing names like Lenny Wilkins, Bill Russell, Doc Rivers, Joe Mazzulla, and Ty Lue.
• Quote:
  • “There ain't very many of us of color that have won an NBA title...the NBA been going on for 80 years. I think that's it.” — Joe Johnson [27:47]

7. The Sacramento Kings’ Broken Infrastructure

• Segment Start: [35:12]
• The panel harshly criticizes the Kings, noting they’ve let star players and coaches go (Doncic, Haliburton, Fox, Mike Brown) who’ve found greater success elsewhere, while Sacramento is stuck in mediocrity.
• Quote:
  • "Damn infrastructure. Bad fella. Ain't no way around it...it ain't the damn coaches and the players...It's the organization. It's the infrastructure, bro." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [35:29]

8. Sabonis & Kings’ Roster Uncertainty

• Segment Start: [36:31]
• Discussion about the possibility of the Kings moving on from Domantas Sabonis and reflecting on his father's legacy and skills.
• Quote:
  • "He was yoking passing before yic...Centers wasn’t shooting threes. He was one of the only...back then." — Chad Johnson & Joe Johnson [37:32-37:45]
• Concerns about who the Kings might pick in the draft and the franchise's direction.

9. WNBA: Aces Victory & Franchise Power

• Segment Start: [38:54]

• Conversation shifts to WNBA action, highlighting the Aces’ win, Asia Wilson’s dominance, and Becky Hammon’s coaching achievement.

• Quote:

  • "Asia Wilson, 28 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks...The victory gave Becky Hammonds 150th coaching victory and made her the second fastest coach to reach that milestone." — Joe Johnson [38:54]

• Discussion on what makes franchises like the Golden State Valkyries so valuable:

  • "They own the building which they play in...Like the Liberty." — Joe Johnson [42:51]

10. WNBA & Nostalgic Moments

• Segment Start: [43:32]
• Reminisces on the dominance of the Houston Comets and the star power of Cynthia Cooper, Tina Thompson, and Sheryl Swoopes.
• Quote: "When the WNBA first kicked out, them girl was not playing well. You ain't gonna see what they did. They won four straight cause they had two of the top five players on one team." — Joe Johnson & Chad Johnson [43:44-44:04]

11. Caitlin Clark & Sideline Frustration

• Segment Start: [45:08]
• Hosts briefly mention the viral clip of Caitlin Clark’s sideline exchange, contextualizing the intensity of high-level competition.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Spurs Youth:
  "It's hard to construct a team like this...I figure in about two or three years, yeah, you're gonna have a lot of these key pieces gone. But the core...they intact for the next at least decade." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [03:47]

• On NBA 'Pecking Order':
  "If he on your damn team. He gonna be option one and you gonna be two. Period, point blank." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [07:42]

• On Facing Former Teams:
  "When you playing your former team, bro, you be so in tune...you want your damn get back, you know..." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [19:39]

• On Kings Franchise:
  "It ain't the damn coaches and the players...It's the organization. It's the infrastructure, bro." — Chad Johnson (Ocho) [35:29]

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Memorable Moments

• The playful argument over 'alpha status' in NBA history, with banter about Shaq and Kobe's days and whether any young Spur will want to push Wemby for top billing. [06:41-08:33]
• Nostalgic reflections on great defenses—the 2000 Ravens and what makes truly elite teams in both football and basketball. [24:09-26:24]
• The ongoing roasting of the Kings’ culture and decision-making, providing both laughs and real criticism. [35:12-38:25]
• Appreciation for women’s basketball history and the surging value of WNBA franchises. [38:54-43:09]

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Takeaways

• San Antonio Spurs: Poised for a sustained run if they manage egos and contracts, drawing clear parallels to historic dynasties.
• NBA Coaching Legacy: Few Black head coaches win titles—every additional name is celebrated.
• Sacramento Kings: A chronically mismanaged franchise, repeatedly losing stars and failing organizationally.
• WNBA: Recognition of both former and current stars, with real insight on the league’s financial and cultural growth.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
You’ll find vintage chemistry between Shannon Sharpe and Chad Johnson, in-depth, unfiltered analysis of current NBA and WNBA narratives, and both humor and substance in their takes on sports legacies. The episode spans player development, coach impact, franchise culture, and even a detour into the business side of pro sports, offering a full-course meal for true hoop (and football) fans.

Transcript

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[Joe Johnson]

I turned off news altogether.

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I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Joe Johnson]

It's the rage bait.

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It feels like it's trying to divide people.

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We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

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[Joe Johnson]

Catch the red eye or take the

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[Joe Johnson]

Celebrate a win with the toast at the gate or unwind at the lounge. Big props to this team.

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[Joe Johnson]

What parallels between Tim Dunker, Tim Duncan and Victor Wyama first playoff run are insane. 22 year old Tim Duncan, first playoff run, beat the Blazers, beat the Wolves, defeated the Lakers. His rival was Shaq, beat the Knicks in five games in the NBA Finals. Wemby beat the Blazers, beat the Wolves, defeated his rival Chet Faith in the Knicks in the NBA Finals.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

That's scary. Nah, it is for real.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

It is for real.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Like I, I think you know, seeing San Antonio because I don't think we, we thought San Antonio would be here.

[Joe Johnson]

No, no, we thought they're gonna probably be another year, year away because we talked about. Yeah, we, we talked about it. I said Joe, you remember okc? They had, they got upset by the Mavericks, came back the next year.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

So I was thinking, yeah, Thunder do it and then they come back next year.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Absolutely. And for them to be on the biggest stage right now, man, this young team is so scary, bro. That like potentially seriously fellas, I don't know if they could keep all those guys together because you know everybody gonna want to get paid. But it's hard to construct a team like this to have all this talent on one team. So I figure in about two or three years, yeah, you're gonna have a lot of these key pieces gone. But the core obviously women, Yama, Castle, Harper, I guess for sale and champagne like they, they intact for the next at least decade. I'm just being realistic, you know, they gonna give people hell for the next decade for sure.

[Joe Johnson]

I think the core three, I think their core three is Harper, Castle.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

And I know they would like to keep for sale. I know they'd like to keep champagne. I just don't think it's going to be possible. And I think they're going to probably end up moving off of Fox because Harper's too good to keep on the bench. Joe, you can't keep him on the bed. Joe.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

No, he. Look at tonight.

[Joe Johnson]

You remember that, that overtime game, Game one.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

He and I love Fox. Fox has been amazing this last game.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I do too.

[Joe Johnson]

It showed you why they got him.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, you just can't keep all those guys.

[Joe Johnson]

You can't.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

It's hard to. It's hard to have all that talent on one team. It's just too much. And I. You right, I'm, I'm. I'm. Look, hey, if I'm, if I'm the spurs at some point Dylan Harper is going to be My star.

[Lenny Wilkins]

When was that be, Joe?

[Joe Johnson]

It probably gonna be next year. Oh yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna be either next year or the year after. He ain't got more than two years there. I can see a scenario happening now because he. You got a great situation. Fox, you could learn from a veteran player. Fox is still unbelievable. But this kid is. I. I can't, Joe. I can't keep him on the bench. I can't.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I think you can play both of them if you just want me to be honest with you.

[Joe Johnson]

It's hard to play three guards, Joe. And even though you got Wimy and that kind of. That kind of hurt him a little bit. I mean, cuz you got. When you play three guards, you got to have a conscious like, hey, we got to hit the glass. We got to. Yeah, we talked about this with the Dallas Wings. When they play Reek and they play Beckers and they play a fud.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Joe Johnson]

It is, it is, but it's. And I think the thing. You can keep teams that come up together as long as they understand the pecking order. Right. I don't think there'll ever be a situation. I could be wrong. You don't know what the mindset is. Is that right?

[Lenny Wilkins]

Harper,

[Joe Johnson]

Castle think there are better than Wimby. That's when you run into problems.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I don't think. I don't think they gonna run in there. I think they understand the picking order and they know by having him, he makes the game so much easier for those guys.

[Joe Johnson]

How was that picking order in la? Hey, how was that picking order in Cleveland? Hey, Joe, I'll be using the NBA when it happened now.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I'm listening.

[Joe Johnson]

Go ahead, fill us in. Tell Ocho and I about this. Cause you was a rider at the time.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

What? What you talking about?

[Joe Johnson]

With the Lakers, when they won three championships in a row. How did that pecking order.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I know that. Cause you got you. But that's because you got two damn alphas. You got two damn alpha.

[Joe Johnson]

Do you not think Castle think he's an alpha? Did you see this, man? Dylan Harper. Yeah. Come on. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. Hey, come on, bro.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

And you need that. And you need that, bro. You need that from him. But what I'm saying is I think they understand how unique Wimby is, man. They ain't you. You ain't gonna. If he on your damn team. He gonna be option one and you gonna be two. Period, point blank.

[Joe Johnson]

Kobe said no, I don't Want to be, too. No more.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Well, we. We know Cole was a little different. Yeah, man.

[Joe Johnson]

Man, guess what?

[Lenny Wilkins]

Was Kobe ever too?

[Joe Johnson]

Yes.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Not in his mind.

[Joe Johnson]

Okay, bro. When Kobe got there in 96, who thought Kobe. Who thought Kobe was better than Shaq?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Nobody.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Nobody.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

When he first got there. Nobody.

[Joe Johnson]

Been in the league four years and he was a top 50 player all time in his fourth year. Come on. What Kobe turned himself into with that relentless drive and work ethic. Yes, he became that. But, bro, let's not fool ourselves. When they arrived in LA at the same time, it wasn't close. No, it wasn't close.

[Lenny Wilkins]

But what Kobe worked and turned himself into.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes. Yes. His mind. I ain't.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I'm not no.

[Joe Johnson]

2.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I'm the one.

[Joe Johnson]

You saw. Every year you saw Kobe get better, it was like. Like, oh, man. Every year, same thing. When you watch the ar, you watched AR or the undrafted free agent, and every year you see his points increase. You see him getting better. You see him getting better. You see him getting better. You watch Kobe, and every damn year he got the guy that was laughing at that when he air ball that shot. Yeah.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hey, hey. It could be the same turning point for Chick now. You know where everybody been talking.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Oh, no, no.

[Joe Johnson]

We always had that in him.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

We don't. We?

[Joe Johnson]

We don't.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

We. You. It just take a moment. It take a moment for them for that dog.

[Joe Johnson]

I saw it. I'm never gonna let a Chihuahua Pomeranian guard the flock. He gonna sit on my lap and he gonna bark at the doorbell. And when the mailman stick the bell in the slot, he gonna go tear it up.

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[Joe Johnson]

That's what I got him for. I will get an alibi. I'm gonna get a kangal. I'm gonna get a barbell. I'm gonna give you one of these big ass Caucasian mastiffs. I'm gonna let them guard the.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

That ain't check makeup, though, Joe. That's in you, Joe. Ain't nobody gave you that. It wasn't that. It was. It was your upbringing that caused you to be Joe Johnson. It was Ocho's upbringing that caused Ocho to be Chad Johnson. It was my upbringing that was in me. That ain't on me.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lenny Wilkins]

There's certain things you can't. You can't coach, Joe. Certain things you can coach. You have an it factor. Everybody has that is factor. Some people got it, some people don't. You can't coach it. It just. You. You born with it.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes.

[Lenny Wilkins]

You born with it.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes. I. I Look, he go. But here's the thing, though, Joe. That's his demons. Cheddar. Cheddar. If you're an alcoholic, ched is the drink. If you got a gambling problem, cheddar, the casino. Wimby is the casino. If you got a girl addiction, Wimby is the model. So whatever your weakness is, he's it.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

How do you face it? How do you stare it down?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Gotta go through his ass.

[Joe Johnson]

Cause guess what, Joe? If you have an addiction to alcohol, guess what you gotta do, Joe. I gotta go buy every liquor store every day for the rest of my life and not go in there. I got to be able to go back, go to a restaurant and order water or drink or soda and not a drink. I go out with the boys to watch a game. I gotta walk by the bar and go sit in the back and have a good time while everybody else is drinking. I gotta be able to go, hey, man, we going to Vegas, bro. I don't know if I can go to Vegas. It's like me in Houston. I gotta go to Houston. Every time I gotta go to Houston,

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

man.

[Joe Johnson]

Me and Joe.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hey,

[Joe Johnson]

Hey. There's a saying that says we create our demons, only we can chase them away. Yeah, we going to Houston, damn it. We going to Houston. I'm gonna chase my demons away. I'm going to Houston, and I'm gonna be outside.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hey, that's good energy, huh?

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah. Oh, my bad. I said that out loud.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I like the language you talking, man. That's what I'm talking about.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I like it. Hey, you.

[Joe Johnson]

And you know what?

[Lenny Wilkins]

And you said that with some conviction. That's how I know you meant it.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Oh, Lord.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes, sir.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I'm with you when you write.

[Joe Johnson]

I ain't bother nobody.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

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[Joe Johnson]

i turned off news altogether.

[Skeptical Commentator]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Joe Johnson]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Skeptical Commentator]

If we got clear facts, maybe we could calm down a little bit.

[NBC News Announcer]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America,

[Joe Johnson]

Mike Brown was asked if it's difficult to separate his connection to the spurs organization and Dear and Fox ahead of the NBA Finals. They definitely want to beat me, and I want to kick their ass. I love them. And you could always love them before and after. Joe, you ever. When. So how was it when you played? When you played when you were Atlanta and you played Phoenix or you went to the Brooklyn and you played Atlanta and you played Phoenix. How was that?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I tried trying to get at 30 every game I tried, and I damn near succeeded a lot of times. I ain't saying I did it every time, but a lot of the times I was trying to get a ass. Hell, especially Phoenix. When I left Phoenix and came here, I tried to get them boys hell, every time they seen me, they know it. They knew it. Hey, hey, what we talking about? I ain't got to say a damn thing, but my energy alone lets you know. Oh, he ain't. He ain't messing around today. He ain't. Man, we. Hey, hey. We're gonna have to send that double on his ass. Cause he think he finna come in here and give us 35, 40 points. Hell, no. Yeah, that's how my energy was.

[Joe Johnson]

Ocho, did you play the Bengals when you went to New England?

[Lenny Wilkins]

No. No, sir. Remember? I was only that. I was only that one season. And doing it. When they ran that gauntlet that year, I. I didn't shoot. I think they might. They. Them boys might have lost but two, three, maybe three games that season.

[Joe Johnson]

We.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Nah, we ain't playing.

[Joe Johnson]

I played. Man, how funny is this, man? I leave the Broncos, I go to the Ravens. Our first playoff game. Guess who it's against, Joe.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Who?

[Joe Johnson]

Broncos.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Ravens. Oh, the Broncos.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Oh, man, the Broncos. You trying to get. You trying to get ass.

[Joe Johnson]

Hell, when you are my first catch, y' all. One first catch, they call the pass. It's kind of windy day. I know Jamal. I used to call him the big mistake. It's a derogatory term. It was. It was derogatory at the time. But since, you know, I've been known. Little people say it's derogatory, but let's just call Them I called him

[Lenny Wilkins]

right, right.

[Joe Johnson]

Every size body, but he had little, little short arms. We call the pass. He goes into the plant. I see Trent rear back to throw it. I said, ain't no way in hell Big ma gonna catch this. Yeah, I said, let me go ahead that way. So I start getting me a little light jog. I head that way just in case it bobbles up in the air. I'm have to cat. I'm gonna have to chase somebody down, right? What happened? Sure enough, he bobbling up in the air. A defender tip it. I catch it, go down the sideline 58 yards for a touchdown. Joe. In front of the Broncos bench.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hey, hey, you know what it is? It's. Cause when you playing your former team, bro, you be so in tune, you know what I mean? And it's like the littlest things that can happen for you. It's like. Cause I done had games to where I played against former teams and it didn't go so well. But for the most part, you be so locked in. Cause you want your damn get back, you know, you just.

[Joe Johnson]

You feel away, you know what I mean? Absolutely.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

And you want to come out and put on a hell of a performance. I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Joe Johnson]

And my thing was, it was because I still had a lot of friends over there. It was the fact. And I told. And I ended up having a conversation with Mike and I said, mike, I'm not upset that you tried to trade me and you end up not even offering me a contract. It was the fact that you thought you'd be better without me. Yeah. I said, there are so many things that I do outside of the football. You just look at what I do on the football field.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Right?

[Joe Johnson]

When all. That's when I left and the locker room went to chaos and all that other stuff was going on. Had a conversation like 84, you're right. But I got. I didn't catch with three pass. He had like 78 yards. But it was that one play. And then every big play that we needed to get to the Super Bowl, I made it. Yeah, that made me feel good because they didn't think I could play. I could play at that level. And even though I didn't get the opportunities that I got younger in my career at Denver. Give me an opportunity, I'll make a play.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Knowing that defense once Marvin Lewis said, hey, Shay. Because it was. It was a running joke. We started a joke like, Marvin, how many points you need today, Marvin? Say we give us this so we Playing Tennessee. So we beat the Broncos. He's like, we say, broncos, not gonna score anything on us. I said, what you need in Tennessee? He say. He said, shay, give us 10. I said, Marvin, they got the best record in the NFL. They got. Statistically, their defense was better than ours. He said, yeah, give us 10. Give it to us early. They scored place going crazy. They bust the coverage. I go down, I catch a 58 yard pass, go down to the one Jamal score. They kick a field goal. We kick a field goal. Then they try to pick another field goal. We block it, running back for a touchdown. They throw a swing pass to Ed in the flat. Ray Pickett go back for a touchdown. So we beat them.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

So we feeling good. So we going out. We going out early. We going out early to. To the Raiders because we playing them. They in Oakland. My best friend, Sharon, she passes. She was supposed to meet me in Tennessee, but she ends up passing. So I end up having to go out there. I have to go out there to. To Denver, to obviously to her home, going service. So I don't ride on the plane out there because normally I'm up the front. So the veteran players, if you got 10 years or more, you sit up front with the coaches. Everybody else in the back. So, yeah, I didn't get a chance. So when I get to the hotel that Saturday, I say, marv, what we looking like? He says, he say, shay, give us seven. I said, marvin. I said, marvin, they got the number one offense in football. What you mean? He said, shay, give us seven. Give it to us early. So I said, suge, be honest now, because we always sit at the table. We always said, me, Suge, Woody, Rod Wilson, Corey Harris. We always sat together. I said, sure. I said, sure, what we looking like? What we look need tomorrow? He looked me dead in my eyes. He said, shay, give us seven. The first quarter, it's over. I say, what? I ain't telling what Marvin had told me. I said, come. I said, I say, you know, big play, Shay good for seven. I say. I say. I say, stover got a gotta kick in. So that's 10. So. So you saying if we get the 10 points. He said, Shay, if we get the seven points and y' all don't turn it over, they done.

[Lenny Wilkins]

We good. Hey, hey, hey. Joe, I don't think people understand how good that 2000 Ravens defense was.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

They would like that.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Oo, Joe, I don't even think. I think if the 2000 Ravens defense was playing today, everybody on that team would be Suspended?

[Joe Johnson]

Oh, hell yeah. You could. You could. You can't play like that now.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hell no, Joe. The way they played, are we knocking

[Joe Johnson]

your quarterback out of the game? Your backup? Get your backup ready to play. Cause they gonna knock your starter out.

[Lenny Wilkins]

There was no weakness, Joe. You know, every. Every time you play a team, there's always a Fish. We call them the Fish, Joe.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Lenny Wilkins]

You know, when we go through our game plan, we go through our scouting report, you find who the Fish is, you find who the weak league is, and that's. That's what you pick on. You pick on the Fish, Joe. Ain't no Fish out there with them back then.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, and stop playing, Joe. You got to realize they gave up 3 10, 3 0.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn stingy.

[Joe Johnson]

Every offensive play other than the last player of the game that was a kneel down ended in a punt or turnover for them. They had 16 possessions. It ended in a punt or turnover.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hold on. But what, what, what, what made that defense so great? Obviously we know, Ray, but what, what really made it great?

[Joe Johnson]

They made you one dimensional at all. In 16 games, they didn't give up a thousand total yards rushing. You couldn't run him, so now they know you got to throw it. All they played was cover two. But your third foot, that ball better be at your hands. Oh, they gonna knock your quarterback out. Go back and look at the hit that Rob Bernett put on Ailey Smith.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Landliner did.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hey, that was if he would.

[Joe Johnson]

If you would have hit a quarterback like that today, you are getting suspended. Chad, go look at that shot that Rob Burnett put on a Keeley Smith. If you hit a quarterback, I mean, he took two steps and got ready to throw. And Rob Burnett put his helmet right up under his chin.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I remember that boy.

[Joe Johnson]

Look here, you got a real. Hey, Joe. In 20 games, they didn't give up 200 points in 20 games. As a matter of fact, they didn't give up 190 points in 20 games.

[Lenny Wilkins]

But them boy were good

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

putting it down.

[Lenny Wilkins]

But hey, you know who didn't. You know who? Ain't seen them boy, Joe. Who, me?

[Joe Johnson]

Huh?

[Lenny Wilkins]

I ain't seen the boy, Joe.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I mean. Oh, how many yards you had against the boy?

[Joe Johnson]

No, he wasn't in the league. Did you.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Nah, I came in the next other one.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Oh, okay, okay, Joe.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I still ain't seen them boy, Joe.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, with that little. You know, we had a little something at the Wild Wild west on Ocho.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

What y' all done, you know, Little, Little.

[Joe Johnson]

We can't Say, you're not supposed to. It start with a B. It ends with a Y. We put a little money on his head. Hey, hey, they had.

[Lenny Wilkins]

They already had money on my head anyway, Joe, and I ain't see that.

[Joe Johnson]

Look, Mike Brown wants to win a championship. There ain't very many of us of color that have won an NBA title.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Joe Missoula, Lenny Wilkins, Bill Russell as a player. Coach. Al Adams, Doc Rivers. Yes, sir. I mean, the NBA been going on for 80 years. I think that's it.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

What is Mitch Johnson he blamed.

[Joe Johnson]

But I'm saying, I'm saying, yes, they want to win. And it's a rarity. Guess what? That they go against each other.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, y' all looked at that hit. Oh, there it is. Y' all looked at that hit that Robert that put on Achillesmith.

[Lenny Wilkins]

You put.

[Joe Johnson]

You pulled it up. Pull it up. We can't show it.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Are we allowed to play it? You're not allowed to play it, huh?

[Joe Johnson]

But you can pull up. Take a look at it. I mean, bro, he didn't even get fully in. His drop ball was gone. Yes. Casey Jones. So Bill Russell, Coach Russell did it. Al Adams, Casey Jones, Joe Missoula, Doc Rivers, Ty Lu. Did we leave out anybody? And now we about to get another one.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah. It's gonna be interesting, though.

[Joe Johnson]

So what is the six? Because I. Out of one. Warriors, obviously. We know Russell and, and, and Casey Jones won with the Celtics. Doc run with the Celtics. Joe Missoula won with the Celtics. Ty Lou won with the Cavs. Oh, hey.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Youngest Rod is Rod Barnett, rb, Rob.

[Joe Johnson]

He and I came out together. He's from Syracuse. We came out 90 together. Goose came out. I think Goose might have been a seventh, a 12th round pick. Goose might have been the 12th round. A goose might have been a free agent. We checked. We are asked, about to check. Take. Text the link to you.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Yeah, I got it now. 1999, week five, 2000.

[Joe Johnson]

Man, we put a hurt on y'.

[Lenny Wilkins]

All.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, hey, Joe. I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, hit. You know, I got a little touchdown. You. Hey, see that touchdown I put on your boy Daryl Williams, Joe. Oh, Ocho, I shook him. Ooh, did I?

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hey, hey, D will get hit.

[Joe Johnson]

Boy, I, I, you know, then I come back, then I went back down to Cincinnati. Put two on his head. Bill russell.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Casey jones, lenny wilkins, doc rivers, joe missoula, tyloo7. You miss anybody? Yes. So we said russell, al adams, casey jones, lenny wilkins, doc rivers, joe missoula, tyloo. Did we miss anybody chat?

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hey, that was. That was a nice little stunt, man. That was a nice stunt. That was a. That was a very nice man.

[Joe Johnson]

That bad. I would too if Ocho, you know, if you hit a quarterback like that, now you getting suspended, right?

[Lenny Wilkins]

Hey, put all your weight on him like that. You out the game. That was a nice stunt. That was a nice little stunt. I'm not even gonna lie.

[Joe Johnson]

Well, we have a brother. Sacramento has watched Luka Doncic, Tyrese Halliburton,

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Darren Fox and Mike and now Superhuman Shaq.

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[Skeptical Commentator]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Joe Johnson]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Skeptical Commentator]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[NBC News Announcer]

NBC news brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Joe Johnson]

Brown. All reached the NBA finals within the last two years. They passed on. Luca traded Halle, fired Mike Brown and moved on from Fox. And all they got in return was a first round exit in 2023. Joe, what's going on with the Kings?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn infrastructure. Bad fella. Ain't no way around it. I don't even know how you cut it and slice it. Halle. Halle played in the finals last year. Mike Brown in the finals, Fox in the final. Come on, bro. Yeah, I'm. Yeah, it ain't. It ain't the damn coaches and the players. Obviously, we see that now. It's. It's. It's the organization. It's the infrastructure, bro. It's obviously it's bad, huh?

[Lenny Wilkins]

I say it started the top, huh?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, it got to, bro. Like when you look at all these situations, these guys going to different teams, coaches coaching different teams and they are having success. And you look at the Kings, bro, they've been in dumps Uncle Ocho Hill for, man.

[Joe Johnson]

They've been a sea web them left

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

and bibbing them left on.

[Lenny Wilkins]

They.

[Joe Johnson]

They've been bad ever since Seawell left,

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

and so I don't know, man. I don't know how you get. What pick they got this year. I think they got, like.

[Joe Johnson]

They need a bunch of picks.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I think they got.

[Joe Johnson]

It's being reported, Joe, that they're thinking about moving on from. What's the big tall guy, Chrissy the player. The Lithuanian. His dad. His dad played the lifty Sabonus. Yes.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

The bonus.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes. I told Ocho. Ocho didn't believe that. He was 7 1.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hold on, I thought. I thought Sabonus was already gone. He ain't already.

[Joe Johnson]

No, he's not.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, they probably. Hey, he gonna. He gonna help some damn mind.

[Joe Johnson]

He ain't. He ain't. Look, Sabonis is good, but his dad was a hell of a player. He. I mean, his dad was. By the time he got to the. Got to the States and played with Portland, he's old and beat up. But boy, you talking about past the basketball. He was yoking passing before yic.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

He used to get Shaq some. He used to get Sha. Three could shoot the three.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, Joe, the mock draft got auff going to the Kings.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Oh, man, they got. They got my. I don't want auff to go to the Kings, bro. Hey, but you right, Sabonis, I think he was shooting threes back then. Centers one shooting threes. He was one of the only. Only center shooting threes back then. Probably like him and Sam Perkins, you know? Yeah, them big guys. Big guys want to shoot threes like that back then.

[Joe Johnson]

But you go back and look at him when he played for the Unified. Well, I don't. I think they was called the Russian team. They later became the Unified. Oh, here he was.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

He was serious.

[Joe Johnson]

They used to get America, high iq,

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

high IQ to pass the crap out that ball. I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Joe Johnson]

But it was. What you call it. It was the Brazilians, and I think they. They beat them in the. They ended up beating David Robinson them. When they had the legendary Oscar Schmidt, the Brazilian.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, Joe, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Now you talking about a bucket getter. And I think he dropped like 48 on the Americans. And that was when they said, you know what? Enough of this. We bringing pros. Y' all got pros. We bringing pros.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Ain't no more college is going on, right.

[Joe Johnson]

The Aces got back to their winning ways. They beat the Valkyries 91, 81. Asia Wilson, 28 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks. Jackie Young got back to looking like Jackie Young 23 points, nine assists. She was 9 of 17 from the field, five or nine from the three point line. And she grabbed several rebounds. The victory gave Becky Hammonds 150th coaching victory and made her the second fastest coach to reach that milestone. She did it in 205 games, seven behind Van Chancellor who set the record when he coached the Houston Comments. Gabby Williams led the Valkyrie with, with 20 points. Man, Asia, look, when they're playing with them two guards, when Asia is Asia and Jackie Young, one of those guards play, they.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Hell yeah they are, bro. They gonna, they, they, they. They gonna be tough to beat. You know you right. When Asia's playing like this and she can't be stopped. 15 boys, 28 points. It ain't. It ain't. I don't know if. I don't even know if they got a girl in WNBA who matches up well with her.

[Joe Johnson]

No. Cause you see how she moved. She not. She doesn't move like a lady. Her, she's sudden and she's left. Yeah, she added the three. She's got a midi. She can put the ball on the floor, she can get to the rim, you foul her. But as a two way player, she give you points, rebounds and block your shots.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

You know, with, with, with, with women though, especially like in Asia's position because she's a center. They need, she need good guards.

[Joe Johnson]

Absolutely. And she got two of them.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

She's getting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when they playing well. When they playing well. That's what makes them virtually impossible to be.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey man, what you call them? They play. Look, this was a very important game to them because they played their starters major minutes. And Kennedy Carter, who's been unbelievable right now, she'd be the sixth woman of the year. She's been amazing. She only played nine minutes, but she still gave six points. Joe. She gave. She was perfect from the free throw. I mean she was perfect from the field. One and one from the three point line and three or four. Three or four from the free throw line. She was, she was amazing.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah. Hey hey Becky, Becky rolled them horses today.

[Joe Johnson]

This man n. Hey, hey. Unlike Ron Turcot on Secretariat with hey, hey. He got to the top, he tucked it back up under say I don't even need it today that chestnut coat laid it down Come on home and you feel turned back over look like God. Are y' all even running? Hey.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn.

[Joe Johnson]

Becky had to whip out today on him. Come on. Come on home.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Thanks.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Thanks. Hey, sometimes. Hey buddy. Sometimes that would have take hey, if you in a little rut or you trying to bounce back, hey, y' all need to get it together.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah. Gabby Williams, and she played for the French team. And she played for the French team because I think. I think she got dual citizenship, so I think she played for the French team because she gave. Cause remember, Joe in the Olympic. She had hit that shot, but her foot was on the. On the line.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Golden State.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Kill Stokes. She was on. I think she played with the. She played with the Aces last year, kind of doing what she'd done before. No point seven rebounds.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

I think I read somewhere to where the Golden State Valkyries, they like a. They're like a top franchise.

[Joe Johnson]

Oh, yeah. The most expensive franchise. I think they worth a billion. A billion. But what.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

What makes them. What makes them. How's that?

[Joe Johnson]

They own the building which they play in.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn.

[Joe Johnson]

Like the Liberty.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Huh?

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Yeah, man. What we. We should have got in and got us a percentage on the dream. Hell, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah. We could have got it. We could have got it real cheap. And you ain't nothing cheap now. Houston. Yeah, T. Hey. Yeah, T. Fortino just bought the. Well, he bought the Suns last year. They're relocating to Houston. The Sun. Connecticut Sun.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

All righty. They going back to the comments.

[Lenny Wilkins]

They gonna be the Houston side?

[Joe Johnson]

That'd be the comments.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

No, I think they're going back. They done. They've done something to be able to get that comment back, and that's gonna be dope. I remember. I remember as a kid, bro, sitting there watching Cynthia Cooper.

[Joe Johnson]

Thompson, they parole. They had swoops. Yeah.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

They were loaded when they. When the WNBA first kicked out. Them girl was not playing well.

[Joe Johnson]

You ain't gonna see what they did. They went four straight. Cause they had two of the top five players on one team. And Tina Thompson wasn't no slouch.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Oh, no.

[Joe Johnson]

So they might have had three of the top seven. Top eight players on one roster. And the only thing that hurt them is that Coop was getting older. But it.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

She was cold, man.

[Joe Johnson]

Cooper Life.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn. She was cold. She was nice, bro. I'm talking about putting up numbers.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Damn.

[Joe Johnson]

But congratulations. I got. I gotta check out a comics game. I'm trying to say who they gonna. Who they can play who I want to see them play. They gotta play somebody good. Nah. You know what? When. When you got stars like Asia and Gray and Young, you don't care who they play because the best talent is on that. On the. On the home court. Yeah. It ain't like, you go, you know, you. You want them teams and you wait for the Lakers or you wait for somebody good to come play. Hell, we got the best players right here because I saw him play. I saw him play a couple years ago. I saw him play. Caitlin Clark, the.

[Chad Johnson (Ocho)]

Who you talking about? The Aces.

[Joe Johnson]

Okay. Okay, Joe. While there are many moments of frustration for the Indiana Fever and their 184 loss to Portland Fire Saturday night, the one that got the most attention involved the sideline exchange between Caitlin Clark and Stephanie White. At one point in the game, a fan caught a video of White and Caitlyn arguing on the bench during the break in the action, presumably over defense. Let's look at this video. It.

[Lenny Wilkins]

I ain't. I ain't really seen nothing now. I mean, I saw Caitlyn Clark be a little demonstrative, you know, outside of that, I ain't trying to.

[Joe Johnson]

That. That's. You can't be demonstrative. Ocho.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking, and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

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[Joe Johnson]

Honestly.

[Lenny Wilkins]

Honestly.

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[Joe Johnson]

What?

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