Best of March Madness Part 2: Unc & Iso Joe CLOWN Duke for FUMBLING their Final Four chance on UConn's Game-Winner, T-Mac JOINS THE SHOW

Summary

Nightcap – Best of March Madness Part 2

Hosts: Shannon Sharpe (Unc), Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson (Ocho)
Special Guests: Tracy McGrady (T-Mac)
Date: April 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Nightcap dives deep into the chaos and upsets of March Madness with Shannon Sharpe and Ochocinco giving their signature unfiltered takes—focusing particularly on Duke’s costly mistakes against UConn. The discussion then pivots as NBA legend Tracy McGrady joins to weigh in on NBA MVP races, the state of the league, expansion teams, and all-time greats. The episode is energetic, candid, and packed with sharp sports analysis and genuine camaraderie.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Duke vs UConn: The Final Four Heartbreak (02:39 – 13:08)

• Talent vs. Experience

  • Joe and Ocho argue that Duke is stacked with draft-level talent but underachieves, lacking the veteran savvy of UConn, Michigan, and Illinois.
  • “Yukon is a veteran ball club. ...because when the rubber need to meet the road, you got to have somebody to be calm, cool and collected.” – Joe (02:59)

• Turnover and Poise in Clutch Moments

  • Duke’s young players, especially Boozer, struggled with late-game pressure, culminating in critical turnovers.
  • “When Yukon started to make some shots...Duke got tighter and tighter...when old boy hit that and one and cut the two...now we got a ball game.” – Joe (03:14)
  • “Sometimes you just hold on to the ball...let them foul you, man. You got to shoot them free throws.” – Joe (04:19)
  • “Oh, you can't even sleep at night behind something like this.” – Joe (04:31)

• Duke’s Missed Opportunities

  • Highlighted missed shots, lack of supporting cast stepping up for Boozer, and Duke’s uncharacteristic struggles on the boards.
  • “He got great Cardio. He got 17 minutes worth of cardio in. That ain't enough, man.” – Joe (05:12)
  • “Duke kicking himself with all them damn turnovers.” – Joe (06:42)

• Memorable Shot & Lingered Pain

  • UConn’s late-game dagger is dissected, and the psychological impact on Duke’s players is related to infamous pro sports moments (Billy Buckner, Jackie Smith).
  • “I understand. It took a...shot from God. Come on. Hit. I mean, bro had missed every three he taken. He took a...and then he banged that one.” – Joe (08:30)
  • “That's an awful lot for a young man to have to live with, Joe.” – Joe (09:57)

Notable Quotes

• “That veteran presence that they have over there, it prevailed at the end, man.” – Joe (05:35)
• “They needed him to at least give you 15, 16, bro. Like, Booze gonna be Booze...but he gonna have to have somebody come along for the ride.” – Joe (04:36)

2. Brackets, Busted Dreams, and Banter (11:05 – 13:08)

• Hosts Joke About March Madness Brackets
  • Banter about busted brackets, rooting against Duke, and friendly trash talk.
  • “My bracket tore up.” – Joe (11:35)
  • “All he did was pick animals!” – Joe (11:59)
  • “Hey, King Ocho, respect me, Respect me, huh?” – Ocho (12:10)

3. Tracy McGrady Joins: MVP Debates, The State of the NBA, and the GOAT (17:28 – 46:13)

A. NBA MVP Race: Who's Got the Edge?

(20:17 – 22:30)

• T-Mac’s Criteria

  • Stresses “most valuable to their team”—leans toward Jalen Brown of the Celtics as MVP.
  • Breaks down cases for Jokic, SGA, Luka, and (notably) Wemby’s generational defensive value.
  • Quote: “If Wendy doesn’t win it this year, good luck to all the other players for the next six or seven years. ...His floor is better than all of those guys ceiling.” – T-Mac (21:03)

• Hosts’ Reactions

  • Discussion on OKC’s resilience without SGA, Boston’s balance, and the unpredictability of injuries.

B. Finals Predictions and Boston/OKC Talk

(22:55 – 25:42)

• T-Mac’s Picks:
  • Boston and OKC in the Finals; Denver’s injury woes and San Antonio’s youth cited as limiting factors.
  • “Jalen Brown...I just don’t see nobody in the Eastern Conference as balanced and solid all around like them.” – T-Mac (24:01)

C. Michael Jordan vs. LeBron: The GOAT Debate

(26:52 – 38:00)

• T-Mac’s Take

  • Gives the nod to MJ—focus on the eye test, intangibles, and aura.
  • “For me, it’s MJ all day...it’s not even about the numbers and the championships...it’s all about the eye test and what this man did, you know, night in and night out.” – T-Mac (32:43)
  • Describes his first time meeting MJ at 17, explaining Jordan’s “aura” and feeling as if he was “levitating.” (34:35)
  • “He still don't...ain't nothing like the aura like Michael Jordan now. Maybe Michael Jackson, but I never saw Michael Jackson in person.” – Joe (36:07)

• Contextual GOAT Debate

  • Argues for acknowledging "eras"—MJ faced different competition than Kobe or LeBron; all legends had unique challenges.

D. Scoring Explosions & Respect for History

(39:28 – 45:12)

• On Bam’s Shocking 83-Point Game

  • T-Mac emphasizes how hard it is to score at any level, noting how rare such nights are.
  • “That the league has been around...there’s only three [to score 80+]. Regardless of how he did it...it’s 83 points.” – T-Mac (40:18)
  • Pushback against criticism: “Man, these people out here crazy, dog. That’s 83 points in the NBA game I do. Against NBA players that’s making millions of dollars. Come on, dog. We can’t do that.” – T-Mac (44:50)

• Player Criticism & Hating

  • Why even some former players belittle huge stat lines: “It’s because of how it happened, and rightfully so. ...It was a nasty game of what they was doing. That’s what they’re speaking on.” – T-Mac (43:30)

E. Should the NBA Expand? Talent vs. Dilution

(47:18 – 61:41)

• T-Mac’s Skepticism

  • Skeptical of adding teams (Vegas & Seattle) due to a lack of elite talent across existing rosters.
  • “We just don’t have the product. The league is weird. ...I’m looking at a guy that averaged 30 points last year...he gets waived...I want that type of talent in the NBA.” – T-Mac (59:37)
  • Criticizes current “bad teams” (“Washington Generals,” Utah, Brooklyn, etc.) for tanking and weak rosters.

• Financial Motivation vs. Product Quality

  • Recognizes expansion is good for owners, but questions if it’s good for the product.

F. T-Mac’s ‘Ones’ League — Building Opportunity

(62:39 – 66:31)

• Mission to Create a 1-on-1 Basketball League
  • Inspired by the camp that launched his own NBA path, T-Mac’s “Ones” league seeks to provide overlooked talents a platform—and to empower local ownership, especially among Black investors and celebrities.
  • “I want cities and have guys like Jadakiss...gave him 15% of this team...I just handed it to them because they are impactful in those cities that they grew up. ...Give brothers that look like us a platform in the ownership department.” – T-Mac (64:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When Yukon started to make some shots and started to make that run, it seemed like Duke got tighter and tighter, man.” – Joe (03:14)
• “If Wendy doesn’t win [MVP] this year, good luck to all the other players for the next six or seven years.” – Tracy McGrady (21:03)
• “For me, it’s MJ all day...it’s the eye test and what this man did, you know, night in and night out...” – Tracy McGrady (32:43)
• On MJ’s aura: “It’s like he was glowing, bro. He had like this aura around him that was helping. ...I’ve never seen anything like it.” – Tracy McGrady (34:35)
• On Bam’s 83: “Straight up. Like, come on, bro, like, how you not talk about that, man?” – Tracy McGrady (44:40)
• On NBA expansion: “I know it’s about bread...but as a fan of the game, okay, and if we don't have the product, man...the league is weird. It’s strange, man.” – Tracy McGrady (59:37)
• “I want to do this for my people and I want to change how I’m building this league.” – Tracy McGrady on the ‘Ones’ League (64:14)

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Timestamps Guide for Key Segments

• Duke’s Final Four mistakes – 02:39–13:08
• Tracy McGrady joins – 17:28
• NBA MVP conversation – 20:17–22:30
• Finals predictions & Boston/OKC – 22:55–25:42
• GOAT debate (MJ vs LeBron) – 26:52–38:00
• Scoring outbursts & Bam’s 83 – 39:28–45:12
• NBA Expansion/league health – 47:18–61:41
• Tracy McGrady’s ‘Ones’ league – 62:39–66:31

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Summary

This episode is a must-hear for fans craving in-depth basketball conversation delivered in a raw, real, and frequently hilarious way. From March Madness heartbreaks and playful bracket banter to legacy-defining NBA debates and Tracy McGrady’s passionate visions for the sport’s future, the show captures the highs, lows, and unpredictable drama of sports culture.

Transcript

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[Joe]

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[Tracy McGrady]

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[Joe]

Got you look at the guys. They probably got three guys that's going to be lottery pick. We know booze is probably going to be a top three pick, Joe, and he's probably going to be college player of the year. But when you look at the talent that they've had, they've underachieved. I don't care what. I don't care. I don't care anything about this. And they're young and. And that's what we talk. We talked about this.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yukon is a veteran ball club.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. Michigan have veteran players.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Illinois. It's not an accident because when the rubber need to meet the road, you got to have somebody to be calm, cool and collected.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah, absolutely right, man. Absolutely.

[Joe]

And you see, there's no way. And it seemed like when. When Yukon started to make some shots and started to make that run, it seemed like Duke got tighter and tighter, man. Dudes got tighter and tighter, man. He got tighter and tighter. And when old boy hit that and one and cut the two.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

With like two minutes to go. Now we got a ball game.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

All right.

[Joe]

Now we're gonna see. We gonna see if those shots that you were making when you was up 10, 12, 14.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Let's see if they go in now. Let's see if you still have the same conviction to shoot them when you was up double figures. Now you only up 2. Let's see if you'll pull a. Joe. Let's see if you'll pull for 22 now.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

See if you try to snatch it when you from 16 now.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, hey, hey. You absolutely right when you look at it. Yukon playing with juniors at the point guard at the 1 and 2. And dude got a freshman out there who ain't. Who ain't never been in that environment.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Been in this situation. I don't want to say he ain't been in an environment because he's been playing with his twin brother. And we know they've been under microscope for quite some time, but the significance of this game, to have that turnover

[Joe]

and it leads to.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Come on, bro.

[Joe]

Sometimes you just hold on to the ball, Joe. Yeah.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, I know you got two dudes wide open, but let them fire you, man. You got to shoot them free throws. That's the One thing you don't want to do is turn that ball over.

[Joe]

And that's the only way, really, you can get beat.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Oh, you can't even. You can't even sleep at night behind something like this.

[Joe]

Nah, it's tough.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Like, keep it 100.

[Joe]

You can't. But.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

But Uncle Ultra, I was just telling y' all the other day about Evans. This is why I was skeptical. He can't have a hell of a game like he had the other day and then turn around and give us seven points, man. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Like, they need him. They needed him to at least give you 15, 16, bro. Like, booze gonna be booze. Like, you could tell. Hey, like, uncle say he gonna be a top three pick, but he gonna have to have somebody come along for the ride, you know? You got a guy out there, plays 17 minutes, got a donut, he ain't even take a shot. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe]

Yeah, he got caught. He got great Cardio. He got 17 minutes worth of cardio in.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

That ain't enough, man. Like, I. I know, I know they played well. They played well enough to win. Shot 52 from the field, 40 from the 3, and UConn didn't play great. They played great when it mattered, you

[Joe]

know what I mean? When they needed it.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

When they needed it, they came through, bro.

[Joe]

That. That. That.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

That veteran presence that they have over there, it prevailed at the end, man.

[Joe]

And Mullins, bro, that joker shoot all them threes, he was coming off pics and was wide open. I was like, bro. I say, I. I say, hurley, if you call one more pin down and let this dude come out this pick and shoot a three, and he airball. I say him and Caravan.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

God dang.

[Joe]

Now you don't know how to shoot. Carabad. You've been knocking down threes your whole damn career at Yukon, and now you get in this game, you can't make one? Well, you keep coming off a pick after pick after pick, and then from 35 foot, he pull and bang, nothing but bottom of the net.

[Ocho]

Hey, shoot or shoot, Joe. Ain't that what they say?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah, Shoot or shoot.

[Ocho]

Hey, shooters keep on shooting.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

They. Hey, look, they ain't really have but, like, two. They had one guy who played pretty good read and Smith replayed out his damn mind.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

But outside of that, Uncle Osho did nobody else. I mean, Smith off the bench, not 18 minutes, nine points, four for seven. But for the most part, man, this was a.

[Joe]

It Got it.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Got to be an ugly game.

[Joe]

But Duke. Duke kicking himself with all them damn turnovers.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You can't. You can't keep turn. You can't keep turning the ball over like that. And I thought. And I. I felt like, okay. But what concerned me was Duke on the glass, but it wasn't that big of a discrepancy.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

34 to 28. You know, normally Duke is a plus 10, plus 15 on the glass because they. They. They. They killing you. Boozer normally has that. What's. What's the other big guy name? Do you know another big guy. He might have got hurt, but. Nah. But this. I mean, it's crazy. It. You're never going to be able to look. And I hate it. I hate when it's happened to young kids. We see it happen to professionals, and we. You know, we talk about the Billy Buckner situation when he played with. Played the Mets and. Yeah, went through his leg at first base. Jackie Smith went to the hall of Fame, but he's known for dropping a touchdown that would have beat the Steelers for the Cowboys. Things like that linger for. Cause they're gonna. They're gonna play this, Ocho. And I don't know why Booze just didn't hold on to make it come foul you.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah, he had two guys ahead of him.

[Tracy McGrady]

That was wild.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

So I know he was trying to get off the ball so they couldn't foul and they can get something easy. But, bro, that little tip that. That deflection that they got, that was the deflection of the season, bro.

[Joe]

Yep. They were dead.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

They was out of there.

[Joe]

Oh, all. Hey, hey. If. Hey, Joe, if he do this, I'm holding. You know what, Joe? I just. Sometimes. Sometimes instead of throwing it. You know what I'm saying, Ocho? Instead of maybe he drop it.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

You know what?

[Joe]

I'm just gonna slide down and let the clock keep moving because the clock is my friend.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

The clock is not my enemy.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's my friend.

[Ocho]

In that situation.

[Joe]

Going out of bounds is the enemy. Turning the ball over is the enemy.

[Ocho]

Enemy.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's almost.

[Tracy McGrady]

Look.

[Joe]

And I understand. It took a. Bro. It took a shot from God. Come on. It took it. I mean. I mean, come on. It took it. It. That's what it took, bro. Hit. I mean, bro had missed every three he taken. He took a. And then he banged that one.

[Ocho]

The one that mattered.

[Tracy McGrady]

35.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

That hurt nothing but that.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, Joe, he let that. Hey, his release was so goddamn quick when he let that thing go too.

[Joe]

He had no choice.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Oh, amen.

[Joe]

Cause he deflected it and got it to the other guy. And, hey, he. But you know what, Joe? What it is, is that trailer. Remember the trailer in Villanova, North Carolina?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

The guy bringing it up to court, the guy that took it out of bounds, was the guy that hit the shot.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

You see, bullets was the trailer. He the one that deflected it. He got it up to the court, they come to get him, they kick it back to him back. They needed Mike Green on the call. That have been a triple bang, bang, bang, bang.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Joe]

Or maybe have John Witherspoon rest his old. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Hey, that was devastating.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

It's not that. It's not like I was sitting here rooting for Duke, but when he made that shot, that hurt me, bro.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of what. What happened? What transpired. Look, if he didn't turn the ball over.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And the guy made the shot, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it. That's an awful lot for a young man to have to live with, Joe.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

It is.

[Joe]

It is.

[Tracy McGrady]

It is.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

It is. They got all these State Farm commercials now. The booze of twins.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey. Damn. Well, that's a bad way because, you know, they probably would have had more come out. Oh, what if they would have made it to the final four?

[Ocho]

Four.

[Joe]

Oh, they don't probably. They don't probably shot a few commercials.

[Ocho]

I was just gonna say they didn't already shot them commercials already.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Oh, man, look, look. My favorite ones is Samuel Jackson and Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson now.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. Hey.

[Tracy McGrady]

What?

[Ocho]

Yeah,

[Joe]

man, that hurt.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Oh, that one hurt. That one.

[Joe]

I'm hurt for I. I ain't hurt for Duke. I ain't to say been here. LI said, man, I feel. I do not feel bad for Luke. And I told y', all, hey, Abd anybody but Duke, right? I don't give damn who win. They not winning. And my homeboy won't even call me. I've been calling Bur Joe. I've been calling him all day. I called him at oo, told him I'm in jail. Say, this is my one call. Homeboy, please pick up. Please.

[Ocho]

He answer you yet?

[Joe]

Answer. I called back. I said, man, I got this burner phone. This dude had his burner phone in jail. I tried it, cuz. With North Carolina lost, man, that joker blew my phone up. So I like, hello. I pretend like I'm sleep. So anytime our team lose, we Always pretend like we sleep.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

I'm like, hello,

[Joe]

you ain't sleep. I said, come on. Yeah, yeah. What's going on?

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, what'd that bracket look like now?

[Joe]

Oh, my bracket tore up.

[Ocho]

Hey, Joe, what yours look like?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Man, I don't know. I don't know.

[Ocho]

I know. I know who bracket. I know who Bracket's still intact, though.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

I ain't gonna lie to y'.

[Joe]

All. You just got Arizona to win. Hey, hey, wait. Arizona. You won because you got Arizona going to the final four.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, hey, Ojo.

[Joe]

Hey, hey.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

I'm happy for you, Ocho.

[Tracy McGrady]

I.

[Joe]

What you doing? Putting. All he did was pick animals. All he did was pick animals.

[Ocho]

Hey, King Ocho, respect me, Respect me, huh?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, look, I can't believe my homeboy

[Joe]

did me like that, man. He came back, the phone. I was in jail. Had to get a burner phone. He still won't answer for it. I sent him a text, asked it, is everything okay? He still ain't hit you back? Hey, hit me back yet. He ain't gonna take it.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Gonna take him about two, three days before he get back at you.

[Joe]

Oh, he ain't calling me. He ain't calling me no time soon. He probably called you. That's all right. I'm gonna call Michelle.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, but I'm gonna tell y' all something.

[Joe]

Michelle, can you have birds call me?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Hey, these teams left in the final, going to the final four. Boy, hey, if you ain't got, you know, seven footer down there, you're gonna be in some trouble.

[Ocho]

Hey, it's gonna be a long day.

[Joe]

You know what I hate? I, man, I hate Michigan. I hate Michigan and Arizona playing. I will. I need them to cross.

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

You want that be championship? You want that to be a championship?

[Joe]

Yeah. Cause both of them. Hey, both of them got some guy. Hey, man, Michigan.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Why are we trying so hard? So I can breathe.

[Joe]

Why do you need to breathe?

[Wilmer Valderrama]

So I can think. If I can breathe. If I can breathe, I can think. If I can think. If I can think, if I. Then I can win.

[Tracy McGrady]

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[Joe]

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Get on the fast track. T Mobile now has the fastest 5G home Internet. And for a limited time it starts at just 30 bucks a month with autopay and a voice line plus a five year price guarantee plus taxes and fees. Fastest according to Ooklo Speed test intelligence data. Second Half 2025 all right. Reserved guarantee for monthly price of 5G Internet data on eligible plans. Find exclusions and details@t mobile.com Ready for

[Lily Herman]

a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid.

[Tracy McGrady]

Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun Cancer Moon Wouldn't you know it? Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn. Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon.

[Lily Herman]

The story of the sport's most consequential driver Strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out and apparently climbed out the

[Tracy McGrady]

window of the bathroom.

[Lily Herman]

And was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both? He started getting all this attention and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better. And plenty of other mishaps and scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Carrie Champion]

If you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast. Flagrant and funny.

[Jemele Hill]

You look at the top four number one seeds, what do you think UCLA is gonna do? Break down that for me, my friend.

[Carrie Champion]

Obviously UConn is the overwhelming favorite in this tournament, but I'll be honest, I think kind of sleeping on Texas.

[Jemele Hill]

Experts are suggesting that UCLA is the number one challenger to UConn and that right after that would be Texas. SEC is so is so deep and so thick in just about everything. It really is annoying. So it's UCLA, Texas, South Carolina, LSU, only ones that could possibly upset UConn

[Carrie Champion]

on flagrant and funny. We're giving our unfiltered takes on the biggest moments, the conversations everyone's having.

[Jemele Hill]

So whether your bracket is busted or you just want the latest on the tournament we got you listen to Flagrant and funny with Carrie Champion and Jemele Hill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[John Green]

I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of the Fault in Our Stars and now I guess also as the co host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast.

[Daniel Alarcon]

I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football all leading up to the 2026 World cup for us.

[John Green]

Soccer. Football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

[Daniel Alarcon]

Very debatable.

[John Green]

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty.

[Daniel Alarcon]

Together we'll find out why of all the unimportant things football, soccer is the most important.

[John Green]

Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe]

All right, there's our very special guest joining us tonight. He's a seven time NBA all star, a seven time all. Excuse me. He's a seven time all NBA selection, a seven time NBA all star, a two time scoring champ straight out of high school. Here he is, TMac, Tracy McGrady, T Mac. What it do, bro?

[Tracy McGrady]

What's up, dog?

[Joe]

We good, we good, bro. How you feeling tonight, man?

[Tracy McGrady]

I'm. I'm blessed, brother. All good. Well, thank you for joining us tonight.

[Joe]

Go ahead. You want to say something about your what's good? What?

[Tracy McGrady]

Florida boy good. My dog. What's up, boy?

[Ocho]

Boy, man, I'm chilling, I'm chilling.

[Tracy McGrady]

I ain't see you.

[Ocho]

I ain't see you on the court in a minute, man.

[Tracy McGrady]

You still won't smoke again, Ocho, come on, bro. That's how we starting off this tonight. I'm just asking. I'm glad you said that, Ocho. Let me clear some things up for people out there, right? We played in a celebrity game many, many moons ago and this my dude. This is my Florida brother. We was out there playing, roughing each other up and folks thought we were actually fighting Online. I would never fight this, man. It's my dude. So to clear that up, that was not me and Ojo fighting in a celebrity game, basketball game. That was something else going on. Me and my dude was just acting like Florida boys out there on the basketball court. That's what we were doing. So I wanted to clear that up, man, because I ain't never get a chance to talk to you about that. And I know there's a lot of stuff floating out there about us fighting.

[Joe]

Nah. But what everybody. He been telling us he dropped for. He dropped like 1416 on you, and you kind of got upset with him about that. On me, I say, did you drink? I said, did you drop all 14, 16? He's like, yeah.

[Tracy McGrady]

What juice that drunk that night on me? Hell no.

[Joe]

All right, let's get to some basketball. Look, what? What the mvp. I think we got. We got Luca, we got Wimby, we got Jokic, you got sga, you got Jalen, you got Jalen Brown, and I think you got Cade Cunningham. I think Kate is going to miss the cutoff because he's going to miss too many games. So just for the sake of this argument, let's set him to the side. But I believe it's out of those five, Luca, Jokic, sga, Jalen Brown, and Wimby, you. I don't know if you have a vote. You may or may not. But if you had to. If you had to vote right now, there's still about 12, 14 games left in the season. But if you had to vote right now, T. Mac, where you leaning?

[Tracy McGrady]

So obviously I think all five of these guys can win MVP because they're all having phenomenal seasons.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Tracy McGrady]

But how I see the MVP and view the MVP who's most valuable to their team, and out of those five, when I look at the rosters, it's Jalen Brown, no question. Right? It's no question SGA is playing with another all star and playing with a cast that he played with last year. Yes, sir. But. But J Dub has been out in and out of the lineup and he's just coming back. And then when I look at Jokic now, Jokic, before he got hurt, I don't care what anybody was doing. He was my clear cut mvp. The numbers he was putting up was. Was just astronomical.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Tracy McGrady]

And then when you look at. When you look at. Bro, I'm just gonna say this. When you look at Wimy, if Wendy doesn't win it this year, good luck to all the other players for the next six or seven years. Because defensively like his floor is better than all of those guys ceiling. And we've never seen anybody on the defensive end have that type of impact. I say the dude is like Deion Sanders, bro. On the basketball court. Being able to shut an entire side down. Yeah. And then. And then Luca, you know, for me you got to play both sides of the ball. I think he's done a lot better this year defensively. But in this stretch that we've seen him on, he's been phenomenal scoring with the best of. I mean we. The dude is just a phenomenal offensive player.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Tracy McGrady]

But again he's playing with LeBron James and they didn't really. The team. The team wise. I think there was a little, you know, up and down really wasn't playing great basketball. Jaylen Brown and it's. Boston Celtics has been playing great basketball from the. From the jump. And you look at his roster. JT has been out right up until a few weeks ago. Him coming back. But you look at their roster, it's like no way you guys should be in the second seed in the Eastern Conference. So most valuable player at this point to be still is Jalen Brown.

[Joe]

When you. When you. When you look at this and you see what the. The. The OKC Thunder, what they've been able to do, even when s. When SGA was out, they were still finding ways to win. Even when. And that's the mark of a good team when you could be without your best player and you still win. You can be without your second best player and guys come in and contribute and you can still win. That shows you the depth of a given team.

[Tracy McGrady]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So now if I said okay T. Mac some money that means something to you. And if it's your money you putting up, it means something to you. Who. Who you think is in the finals. Because I go back, I go back and forth because a part of me wants to say San Antonio. A part of me wants to say the.

[Tracy McGrady]

Okay see.

[Joe]

Okay, see. And then I look at the East.

[Tracy McGrady]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I still think Boston healthy. I don't think anybody if Boston and Detroit but Cade has to play great in order for them to win. JT can have an off game and JB carry him. Yeah, JB can have an off game and JT can carry him. And then you got that little guy, Peyton Pritchard. He coming out the. And before you know he don't. But he don't hit you over your head with 20 with 22 points.

[Tracy McGrady]

No, you. You absolutely right, man. You Know, some of these. These guys, when they. They miss games, their team don't fall off. They still win ball games. You know, Detroit had a good one tonight, but they lost against the Hawks. But they still playing good basketball without K. Cunningham. Jalen Dern is stepping up with.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Tracy McGrady]

In the absence of him. And actually, the little point guard, Dennis Jenkins is playing great basketball for them, too. So for Detroit, this is. I want to see this because I wanted to see how they function without the head of the snake and K. Cunningham. And they answered my question. These guys are still a legit team without him. And I see how they can play when Kate gets in foul trouble or he's off the court for whatever reason. They still play good basketball. And with Jalen Brown there, man, I. I just don't see nobody in the Eastern Conference as balanced and solid all around like them New York Knicks. They have everything, but you just don't know. It's been some inconsistent basketball with them. So I'm going to Boston, and it pains me to say this, because I love the Denver Nuggets. Jokic is my favorite player. Them being healthy,

[Joe]

man, because Peyton Watson is coming back at some point in time. Because you look at the way they was playing with Peyton Watson.

[Tracy McGrady]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And you got Jamal Playoff. Jamal, because, you know, Jamal Murray, he and Jokic in the picket role is the most stoppable tandem.

[Tracy McGrady]

So I'm. I'm gonna say this. Before I had Denver, when they were fully healthy, I just thought, okay, was that team. But because it's been, you know, Aaron Gore been out of the lineup. I mean, Peyton Watson been out of lineup. Trisha Brown's been out of the line. Like these. So many of these guys, Cam Johnson, they're. They're core guys, has made so much time. I gotta go. I gotta go with Boston OKC in the finals, dog. Wow.

[Joe]

No San Antonio. You don't think San Antonio is quite old enough yet? Because I love Wimby. Stephen Castle, I mean, they got. They. Harrison Barnes comes off the bench. Keldon Johnson. I love Kelvin Johnson. He's a bucket. I don't care what. It don't matter. He get in the game, he gonna

[Tracy McGrady]

get 20T, man, now that. That. That boy be playing, man, whether he knock it down to three or get to the Cup, I love their team. I just think this is the year where they're gonna have that growing pain of failing to reach the finals. And then next. The next few years. My gosh. Watch out.

[Ocho]

It's gonna be crazy.

[Tracy McGrady]

My gosh. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey. Hey. Mac, I want to switch gears real quick. Obviously you with great knowledge of the game and everyone has their own criteria.

[Tracy McGrady]

Hold on, bro.

[Ocho]

I'm in the car. I was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was.

[Ocho]

I was stuck in a rush hour traffic.

[Tracy McGrady]

I ain't no goddamn rush hour traffic, bro. This is how you do me, bro. You supposed to be my boy. You supposed to be in the studio or at the crib. You in the car, man.

[Ocho]

No, I'm. No, I swear to God. TMac, I was in standstill traffic for like 45 minutes.

[Tracy McGrady]

All right, Follow yourself, bro. I'm.

[Ocho]

I'm at the house now. But real, real quick. Everyone has their own criteria. There's always dialogue. There's always endless conversations. Barbershop talk, basketball talk when it comes to who the best is to ever play this game. So, based on your knowledge and having to face these individuals in your mind, who is the greatest basketball player of all time? When it comes to the debate about Michael Jordan and LeBron James, who is the go to.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

I'm trying to run as fast AS T mobile 5G home Internet, Zach.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

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[Joe]

How's this?

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T Mobile's faster than that, bud. Speed up.

[Joe]

No.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Joe]

Hey, whoa, whoa.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

That's too fast.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

Get on the fast track. T Mobile now has the fastest 5G home Internet. And for a limited time, it starts at just 30 bucks a month with autopay and a voice line, plus a five year price guarantee, plus taxes and fees. Fastest according to Ooklo Speed test intelligence data, second half, 2025. All rights reserved. Guarantee for monthly price of 5G Internet data on eligible plans. Find exclusions and details@t mobile.com Ready for

[Lily Herman]

a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid.

[Tracy McGrady]

Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon. Wouldn't you know it? Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon.

[Lily Herman]

The story of the sport's most consequential driver strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom and was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F1 career a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both? He started getting all this attention and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than this, I'm better. And plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Carrie Champion]

If you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast. Flagrant and funny.

[Jemele Hill]

You look at the top four number one seeds, what do you think UCLA is going to do? Break down that for me, my friend.

[Carrie Champion]

Obviously UConn is the overwhelming favorite in this tournament, but I'll be honest, I think people are kind of sleeping on Texas.

[Jemele Hill]

Experts are suggesting that UCLA is the number one challenger to UConn and that right after that would be Texas. SEC is so is so deep and so thick in just about everything. It really is annoying. So it's UCLA, Texas, South Carolina, LSU, only ones that could possibly upset UConn

[Carrie Champion]

on flagrant and funny. We're giving our unfiltered takes on the biggest moments, the conversations everyone's having.

[Jemele Hill]

So whether your bracket is busted or you just want the latest on the tournament, we got you. Listen to Flagrant and Funny with Carrie Champion and Jemele Hill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[John Green]

I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of the Fault in Our Stars and now I guess also as the co host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast.

[Daniel Alarcon]

I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football all leading up to the 2026 World cup for US Soccer.

[John Green]

Football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

[Joe]

Very debatable.

[John Green]

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak and above all its beauty.

[Daniel Alarcon]

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important.

[John Green]

Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Hey, I'm Wilmer Valderrama and this is Freddy Rodriguez.

[Ocho]

Welcome back to Dos Amigos.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Dos Amigos Season 2B.

[Ocho]

This time, we're going even deeper into our careers, our lives, our art, and everything in between.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Each episode emanates from our very own speakeasy, where we swap stories about the moments that really shaped us on and off camera.

[Ocho]

What do we invest in right now? What is the immediate advice you give

[Wilmer Valderrama]

people right now is to value time, to be cognizant of time and how important time is, because once the time is up, it's up, and then that's it.

[Ocho]

And the relationships, collaborations, and even the failures that pushed us to grow. And the common denominator is that we have the same people with us since like 30, 40 years ago. Right? Like, we have a lot of the same homies that stuck around.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Plus, the door always stays open for a third amigo to pull up a chair. Listen to Dos Amigos as part of the Michael Tudura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts game.

[Tracy McGrady]

You only threw two of them in there.

[Joe]

I think T. Mac got cold in that. In that discussion.

[Ocho]

Talk to me nice now. Talk to me nice and. And let me, let me know. Let me know who you feel the best is ever. We talk about the goat now. So there's another goat you want to

[Tracy McGrady]

add to the conversation. So. So for me, it's. It's MJ all day. You know, I. I grew up watching Mike, and I. I just haven't seen. And it's not even about the numbers and the championships. It's right. I'm watching right with my eyes what I see on the basketball court. Yeah, that other stuff helps, but it's all about the eye test and what this man did, you know, night in and night out, defensively, clutch whatever you needed. And not. That's not to say LeBron can't be the goat, but for me, it's my goat. It's mj. And I think how you have to do it, you got to go by errors, man, because you know it's right.

[Joe]

Right?

[Tracy McGrady]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's different style of basketball. It's different players. Like, MJ ain't see no Kobe mjc. No T. Mac. MJ ain't seen off Vince, you know, you know, like. And I want to disrespect those wing players, but be honest, the 2000 wings, bro, they wasn't in, right, right. They were deeper and the game changed, so. And then in LeBron's era, he ran that, right? Putting up crazy stats, the MVPs, but he had some competition. That was Kobe Bryant. And then later on his career, gotta ask Steph Curry in there, right? So I, it's. So it's errors for me, man. All these guys are goats because they always freaking great, bro.

[Joe]

Yeah. I think the thing is, is that I don't know how you felt when you first saw Michael Jordan, but I always tell the story. He doesn't seem real, T. Mac. He, he, he leveled. I mean, when I first laid eyes on this man, I was in the super bowl, this man was levitating. And I'm looking at him and he probably thinking, man, Sterling sharp little brother. He's something wrong with him. He don't T. Mac, am I lying? Does he seem real?

[Tracy McGrady]

So I, I'm gonna tell you this story, and I'm glad you said that. And people really don't understand that. Aura is a real thing, bro. For real. His, his aura is like none other. So I was 17 years, I was 17 years old and this is when I, I announced that I was gonna go to the NBA. Chicago was playing the Atlanta Hawks. I go to the game, watch MJ and Pip and the Bulls do their thing that night. I go in the back after the game and I'm waiting for these guys. I'm waiting by the Chicago Bulls locker room because we got some passes in my. You know, the team that I was with had the connections straight, mj. Well, Rodman walked out. All right. Oh, cool. Let's get his robber right there. Pip walks out. All right, bro. MJ walks out of that locker room, I do. Nah, nah. It's like he was glowing, bro. He had like this aura around him that was helping. I'm telling you, people don't believe it. This is 17 year old me watching this guy because this is right, NBC, this is the golden era of basketball. That's how I got to watch him, right it. To see him on, on TV and what he was doing back in the, the late 80s, early 90s for me, when I started watching and to actually see this brother in person, nah, he, he didn't seem real.

[Joe]

He still don't. He still, he still. I, I Get the same, I get the same feeling when I see that man in person that I got the very first time that I saw his ass in person. This joker levitate. I don't care what nobody say, this man was levitating. He was not walking. He was levitating. And I've seen a lot, a lot of famous people in the world in my time, but don't nobody has the aura like Michael Jordan now. Maybe, maybe Michael Jackson, but I never saw Michael Jackson in person. Yeah, yeah, I've seen Prince in person. I've seen a lot of celebs in person. I've never seen anything like what this man. The glow and, and the power, the energy, the force that is around him. Man, you people, you got, you got to be in his presence to understand what T. Mac but if you think about it, chat everybody that's ever been around him, he said the same thing from Shaq to Kevin Garnett to everybody said the exact same thing. He doesn't. Alan Iris say the man, he don't even seem real.

[Tracy McGrady]

No, he don't, man. And I was, I was actually just with him at the Writers cup. And it's hard not to just stare at Mike, bro. That's, That's Mike right there, fool. But nah, he, and, and for me, when I first saw him and then my first couple times playing against him, like, I still had that feeling, but it's like I've been around Mike so many times. I still, you know, have high regards. The auras kind of wore off a little bit. It's still there and that's still Mike. But man, when I was 17 years, I ain't never seen anything like it, bro.

[Joe]

It's amazing. Like I said, I've been around a lot of famous people. A lot, a lot of famous people. Yeah, ain't nothing, ain't nothing like the. Ain't nothing like this dude right here, man.

[Tracy McGrady]

Nah, nah. And when he, and when he came back to the Wizards, because I was 17 years, I mean, 18 years old, you know, I played against him when they won 72 and 10. That was my rookie year.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Tracy McGrady]

I played and I played against him his last year before he retired. And you know, that 18 year old me was, was trying to figure out, you know, who I was as an NBA player and trying to learn the game. So I didn't, I didn't really, you know, have that, that type of game of that force that I wanted. But when I said when his ass came back when he was with the Wizards. Ah, hey, you might Be wounded, but

[Joe]

I'm gonna give you this work.

[Tracy McGrady]

I gotta give you this work. I don't like what you did to my mind when I was 17 years old, making me seem like you ain't for real.

[Joe]

But that was Kobe's mindset. You Remember Kobe dropped 55 on the last time he played it. And people like, well, Kobe, why would you do that? He said that's what he would want me to do. He would have it no other way. Because I guarantee you, if the roles

[Tracy McGrady]

were reversed, oh yeah, he would have did the same thing. But it did the same thing. So that's why before he left that before I. I had to get at least 40 on it, bro. Before he stopped playing, I had to see that I dropped 40. And I don't care if the Wizards might, because the Wizards might was still averaging 24 points, 25 points and putting up some crazy numbers when he was healthy playing. So I viewed him as Chicago Bulls might. He got to come get this work when.

[Joe]

When you look, you know what I wanted to ask you, T Mac have a guy that played the game at an elite level. There was a lot of conversation going back and forth. When Bam got 83. Bam got 83. Look how he got to 83. The game was out of reach. TMac, can you just tell the people how hard it is to score 40, 50, 60? Because I think you got a career high of like 60, 62. So now go to 70, go to 80. I don't give a damn. High he did it. I don't care if he chair picks no bird, whatever you guys call it. Where the guy just standing at half court and getting layups on the other end. I don't give it that. What you call it, 83 is 83. Talk to the people from somebody that played the game at an elite high, high level. Explain to the people. Even though the Washington Wizards are trash and it says more about them than it does Bam. Explain to people. 83. Damn. Point.

[Tracy McGrady]

Yeah. That the league has been around, you know, 70 something years.

[Joe]

Only 1947.

[Tracy McGrady]

How many people scored that? Three. Three. That's all I got. It's only three. Regardless of how he did it and how you view him as he. When he did it, it's 83 points. And we. We haven't seen that only one time. And that was. That was b. So, yeah. Do I think it could have been a little bit more competitive on Washington side? Of course. But they approach. They make millions of dollars as well.

[Joe]

Right.

[Tracy McGrady]

They got a job to do. And if you had an opportunity to make history. Who's not gonna do that? So when. So, so 30 years from now, when, you know, kids are coming up, these, these babies right now, they come up and they looking at the school, it's like, damn, out of bio. He scored 83 points. They're not going to care how he scored it. They just know, man, that man is on a whole time score. So I don't care how he scored it, man. As you know, it's a lot of people out there that's, that's hating on the man because he overtook and. And Kobe never had the record. I don't know what they talk about it. Kobe had the record like that record is 100 now. We haven't seen it. I haven't seen any video, but the record is 100.

[Joe]

But you know what I think, T. Mac? I think because Kobe got 81 and then see, I think it was Bam is because he's the most unlikeliest guy to get 83. Had Kobe got 83. Had you got 80. It got 80 plus had one of these guys that we look at it scores. Kevin Durant, James Harden, Allen Iverson. If we look, if one of you guys get it, I don't think anybody's batting the eye, but you're talking about Bam. That's a career, what, 20 point a night score. And all of a sudden he jumped from 20 all the way up to get 83. We don't, we don't normally see guys go like that. Even you look at Donovan Mitchell, Donovan Mitchell, when he got seven, you look at Luca, they got 70. Those guys are scores. So it's not anything. So if they would have got. Because we saw them get. Luca got 73, I think against the, against the Hawks, I think donovan Mitchell got 70 something 80. We not even batting the eye, but Bam got it. If we don't look at Bam as one of those guys a score, he's

[Tracy McGrady]

an NBA player, man. The man got hot. He had a phenomenal night in the story. Like, yeah, he scored 83, man. Let that go, bro. Like, all right, man. He's an NBA player, bro. I've seen guys, I've seen guys averaging, you know, 17 points in this league get 50. So what do you got to say about that?

[Joe]

Oh, I think Ultra tried and you muted. Ocho,

[Ocho]

can you hear me now? Yeah. Hey, Mac, I got, I got a question. Listen, normally, normally push back for, for 83 point game that Bam scored. You hear from analysts, you hear from pundits, you hear from, from. From fans. That are just. Just fans of the game in general that. That enjoy watching basketball. But when you hear pushback from actual players that played the game, you know, and they complain also about BAM scoring 83, why do you think that is? Especially from those who have played the game at the highest level, why would they have a problem with it?

[Tracy McGrady]

It's because of how it happened, and rightfully so. Like, it was. It was a nasty game. It was a nasty game of what they was doing. That's what that. That's what they're speaking on. It's. There's no disrespect to Bam. It's just how it happened. You know what I mean? Like the Washington Wizards and fouling and then Miami's fouling to get. To try to get the ball back.

[Ocho]

Okay.

[Tracy McGrady]

Yeah, it was. It was. It was. All that stuff right there is what they was pissed off about.

[Joe]

I don't know. Did you. Did you see Shump's comment?

[Tracy McGrady]

I did not.

[Joe]

Iman Shamba said. This is what he said about Bam. Don't bring up 80 no more. Don't bring that up. That was a regular season game versus a tanking team. You murdered that team and then you walk off. Bam. You don't need to talk about it. We all saw it. Let us talk about it. I'm in a suit. I can talk about it. Don't talk about it no more, Bam. Cause now it looks weird. You about to make it where I don't like 83 no more. I'm dead serious. Please don't be holding on to that.

[Tracy McGrady]

This.

[Joe]

Bam. I need you to add to your resume. F. That. I'm talking about it forever. As a matter of fact, I'm changing my name. Mr. 83.

[Tracy McGrady]

Mr. 83. That. That. Actually, that's going to be my social media. My social media name on all the social media channels.

[Joe]

Mr. 83.

[Tracy McGrady]

Straight up. Like, come on, bro.

[Joe]

Like, how you not talk about that?

[Tracy McGrady]

Man, these people out here crazy, dog. That's 83 points in the NBA game I do. Against NBA players that's making millions of dollars. Come on, dog. We can't do that.

[Ocho]

It's history. It's history. How can you not. How can you not talk about history? You're a part of it.

[Tracy McGrady]

Let me get.

[Joe]

I tell you, Ocho, let's just say for the sake of argument, every. All the top corners go out, but you get 300 yards and y' all still throwing the ball. Y' all up 21 points, and y' all throw the ball and you catch a 15 yard route to go over 300. You go to you. Are you gonna say, man, I feel bad for them. They top three quarters, I did them.

[Ocho]

Oh no. Oh, no.

[Tracy McGrady]

Right.

[Joe]

You in the NFL, I'm gonna talk.

[Ocho]

You'd be crazy. I might change my last name to 300 too.

[Tracy McGrady]

300.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Do you.

[Tracy McGrady]

It's very rare for us to see this type of performance. Regardless. Yeah, it happens, right? Regardless of how it happens, it's supposed to be the best players in the world, right? It's supposed to be the best in the world, right. That's all I'm saying. So we're the best players in the best league. The man scored 83 points. There's no asterisks. It happened.

[Joe]

I, I think see people like, well, Kobe didn't mention it. Well, Kobe had a game where he stopped at 62 and left in the third, at the end of the third and then come back in the game. Kobe has had these scoring outbursts. So we're not surprised. I don't think anybody was surprised because just three weeks earlier he had a 62 point game where he outscored the entire. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was the Mavericks by himself in three quarters. So we got a surprise when Kobe like kept going and ended up getting that. Or if Joe. When Jordan has got these 60 points. But. But bam. I don't even know if bam's career high. If Bam. Career highs even 40.

[Tracy McGrady]

Do you remember, you remember David Robinson was trying to get.

[Joe]

I do. The last game of the season. They got in the scoring title to

[Tracy McGrady]

be shanked, feeding him every single time, every single trip. But we don't say nothing about that. Right?

[Joe]

So as a matter of fact, I think it was against the Clippers.

[Tracy McGrady]

It was against the Clippers. He wasn't gonna score that.

[Joe]

He had 71, man.

[Tracy McGrady]

He wasn't scoring that against nobody else but the Clippers. Why? Because they were like the Washington.

[Ocho]

Okay, okay.

[Joe]

Well, you mean the Washington Generals that played the Harlem Gold Trotters? That's what, that's what, that's what the Wizards are now. Hey, tba, check it, man. You said this week the, the board of governors of NBA, they're convening and they're gonna vote possibly expansion. One Vegas, one Seattle. You said you was like, hold on, guys. I'm not so sure there's enough talent on the 30 current NBA teams for you to dilute it even more. Adding two more teams because players could only. You could only protect a certain number of players and then everybody else Is up for discussion where those teams like, okay, I want this guy. I want that guy. What went into your thought process? Why did you say you don't think there's enough talent that's currently in the NBA for the league to add two more teams?

[Tracy McGrady]

So we just talk. We just talked about Bam scoring 83 points, right? What did you call that team? He scored 83 points on the Washington Generals. We want to see. We want two more teams. And you just said the NBA team. You call these boys the Washington Generals. They're not the only team like that. You got Utah thinking you got the Brooklyn Nets.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Tracy McGrady]

You want to watch the Brooklyn Nets?

[Joe]

Nah, bro, I don't.

[Tracy McGrady]

Why? Why? You know why you don't want to watch the Brooklyn Nets?

[Joe]

They ain't even trying. At least the Wizards are playing their guys. T. Mac, the Utah not even they take their guys out. They down by two. And they. They started for the whole fourth quarter, Triple J getting surgery on. On the wisdom tooth. He out for the rest of the year.

[Tracy McGrady]

So when you answered the question that you asked me. Sacramento. You want you to watch Sacramento? No. So now you talk about add two more teams and this.

[Ocho]

I got a question. I got a question back.

[Joe]

Let me follow you, sir. Right quick. T. Mac, you talking about two teams. And each team, they say that the winning bid is going to be somewhere between seven and $10 billion. And the owners, you know that that's probably 500. That's probably 500, maybe $600 million in each owner's pocket.

[Tracy McGrady]

Hey, hey, I don't want to take no money out of nobody pocket. I know it's about bread. I know it's about bread, okay? But I'm just saying, as a fan of the game, okay, we don't have the product, man. I'm just. I'm sorry. We. We just don't have the product. The league is weird. It's strange, man. I don't. I. I can't understand the league. I'm looking at a guy that averaged 30 points last year in the NBA. 29. 30 points on a bad team, but a bucket getter. Probably one of the best bucket getters in our league. As a young player, he gets waived from his team, Another bad team picks him up, right? Thomas, Cam Thomas. Another team, bad team picks him up. He stays there for a few weeks, and they wave him. That Ocho, the brother was averaging 30 in the NBA last season before he got hurt and he's out of the NBA. So come on, like, I want that type of talent in the NBA. I want somebody, I want that in the NBA to work. He takes tough shots, he'll tough shot maker. He can't find out, he can't find a home in the NBA. Now I don't know the other stuff that's going on, whether it's his attitude or he's not, you know what I'm saying? I don't know none of that. I don't have any of that information. But in terms of a basketball player and what we need in this league, what we want to see, that kid is one of the best scorers you will see in this league.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey, Mac. What I'm gonna say, right, you know, if, if it make money, it makes sense especially to the owner, to the GMs. The bottom line, it will always be the same. And it's always been the same since the beginning of time. It's always about, it's always about the money. So with these two expansion teams, if Seattle is able to get one, if Vegas is able to get one, how long do you think it would take before they're able to produce the product or get the product necessary for those teams to compete? Or is that not possible because there's not enough basketball players in general?

[Tracy McGrady]

No, I, I think it is possible because I mean there are, you know, I think with some of these kids coming out of college, it depends on like how you construct your roster. There's some vets that's probably are, you know, up for a contract and, and possibly we'll look at that Las Vegas situation or look at Seattle, a phenomenal city to hoop in. Yeah, by the way, Vegas. But NBA players. Yeah, but that's a little tricky. That's Vegas. Hey, the girls can handle that. The WNBA players can handle that. The NFL players. It's more of a strict league. You know, you guys only got one game and y' all have a curfew. NBA players got too much downtime, dog. Vegas might be a little tricky, but

[Joe]

TMac, tell us about the ones league that you found. What, what, what is the ones.

[Tracy McGrady]

So that's my one on one league, man. You know, I, I, you know, started a one on one league back in 2022 and there was my proof of concept season and I, I started this league because of where I am sitting today is because a platform that I got on when I was in high school and that was the ABCD camp. See if, if y' all don't know I was an unknown high school square up until my senior year. Nobody really knew who I Was I got invited to the Adidas camp, become, you know, the number one player after that Adidas camp. And, you know, the story is I go to the NBA and the rest is history. So it's that platform that really made me who I was and gave me a name. So it's a lot of Hoopers. Ocho, you know, you grew up down in the bottom, man. You grew up with some guys that.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

That.

[Tracy McGrady]

That can hoop like crazy and probably had, you know, a situation where someone in the family died and they had to pivot and. And step up and. And, you know, be the. The parent, the guardian in that situation or they just couldn't get it right as a. As a teenager and was in some trouble and, you know, ruined their careers or whatever. And then guys just. Just really didn't get the opportunity to live out their dream of playing basketball. Well, there's so many guys, so much talent and one on one out here, man, that I feel they should have that platform. Oh, you play. You played one on one growing up?

[Joe]

I did.

[Tracy McGrady]

Oh, you played one on one up?

[Joe]

No. Hey, T. Mac, you know, 21 was one on one. Basically it was one on one against 15 other guys.

[Tracy McGrady]

I was just about to say that, like. Like I grew up playing one on one and then 21 was our.

[Joe]

Because now it looks weird. You're about to make it. Well, I don't like 83 no more. I'm dead serious. Please don't be holding on to that. This. Bam. I need you to add to your resume. F. That. I'm talking about it forever. As a matter of fact, I'm changing my name. Mr. 83.

[Tracy McGrady]

Mr. 83. That. That. Actually, that's going to be my social media. My social media name on all social media channels. Straight up. Like, come on, bro, like, how you not talk about that, man? Man, these people out here crazy, dog. That's 83 points in an NBA game. I do. Against NBA players that's making millions of dollars. Come on, dog.

[Ocho]

That's his.

[Tracy McGrady]

No, we can't do that.

[Ocho]

It's history. It's history. How can you not. How can you not talk about history? You're a part of it.

[Tracy McGrady]

Let me get.

[Joe]

I tell you, Ocho, let's just say for the sake of argument, every. All the top corners go out, but you get 300 yards and y' all still throwing the ball. Y' all up 21 points and y' all throw the ball and you catch a 15 yard route to go over 300. You go. Are you gonna say, man, I feel Bad for them. They top three quarters. I did them.

[Ocho]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Tracy McGrady]

Right.

[Joe]

You in the NFL.

[Ocho]

I'm gonna talk. You'd be crazy. I might change my last name to 300 too.

[Tracy McGrady]

Straight up. 300. It's very rare for us to see this type of performance. Regardless.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Tracy McGrady]

It happens, right? Regardless of how it happens. It's supposed to be the best players in the world, right? It's supposed to be the best in the world, right? That's all I'm saying. So we the best players in the best league. The man scored 83 points. There's no asterisk. It happened.

[Joe]

I, I think, see, I. People like. Well, Kobe didn't mention it. Well, Kobe had a game where he stopped at 62 and left in the third, at the end of the third and then come back in the game. Kobe has had these scoring outbursts. So we're not surprised. I don't think anybody was surprised because just three weeks earlier he had a 62 point game where he outscored the entire. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was the Mavericks by himself in three quarters. So we're kind of surprised when Kobe like kept going and ended up getting that. Or if Joe. When Jordan has got these 60 points. But. But bam. I don't even know if Bam's career high. If Bam. Career highs even 40.

[Tracy McGrady]

Do you remember, you remember David Robinson was trying to get.

[Joe]

I do. Last game of the season. They got in the scoring title to

[Tracy McGrady]

be shank feeding him every single time, every single trip. But we don't say nothing about that. Right?

[Joe]

So as a matter of fact, I think it was against the Clippers.

[Tracy McGrady]

It was against the Clippers. He wasn't gonna score that.

[Joe]

He had 71, man.

[Tracy McGrady]

He wasn't scoring that against nobody else but the Clippers. Why? Because they were like the Washington.

[Joe]

Okay, okay, well, you mean the Washington Generals that played the Harlem Gold Trotters? That's what, that's what, that's what the Wizards are now. Hey, T. But check it, man. You said this week the, the board of governors of NBA, they're convening and they're going to vote possibly expansion. One Vegas, one Seattle. You said you was like, hold on, guys. I'm not so sure there's enough talent on the 30 current NBA teams for you to dilute it even more. Adding two more teams because players can only. You could only protect a certain number of players. And then everybody else is up for discussion. Were those teams like, okay, I want this guy, I want that guy. What went into your thought process. Why did you say you don't think there's enough talent that's currently in the NBA for the league to add two more teams?

[Tracy McGrady]

So we just talk. We just talked about Bam scoring 83 points, right? What did you call that team? He scored 83 points on the Washington Generals. We want to see. We want two more teams. And you just said the NBA team. You call these boys the Washington Generals. They're not the only team like that. You got Utah thinking you got the Brooklyn Nets.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Tracy McGrady]

You. You want to watch the Brooklyn Nets?

[Joe]

Nah, bro, I don't.

[Tracy McGrady]

Why? Why? You know why you don't want to watch the Brooklyn Nets.

[Joe]

They ain't even trying. At least the Wizards are playing their guys. T. Mac, the Utah not even. They take their guys out. They down by two and they stay for the whole fourth quarter. Triple J getting surgery on. On the wisdom tooth. He out for the rest of the year.

[Tracy McGrady]

So you answered the question that you asked me. Sacramento. You want you to watch Sacramento?

[Ocho]

No.

[Tracy McGrady]

So now you talk about add two more teams and this. Come on, bro.

[Ocho]

I got a question. I got a question, Mac.

[Joe]

Oh, let me follow you, sir, right quick. T. Mac, you talking about two teams, and each team, they say that the winning bid is going to be somewhere between seven and $10 billion. And the owners, you know that that's probably 500. That's probably 500, maybe $600 million in each owner's pockets.

[Tracy McGrady]

Hey, hey, I don't want to take no money out of nobody pocket. I know it's about bread. I know it's about bread, okay? But I'm just saying, as a fan of the game, okay, and if we don't have the product, man, I'm just, I'm sorry. We. We just don't have the product. The league is weird. It's strange, man. I don't. I. I can't understand the league. I'm looking at a guy that averaged 30 points last year in the NBA. 29. 30 points on a bad team. But a bucket getter. Probably one of the best bucket getters in our league. As a young player, he gets waived from his team, another bad team picks him up, right? Thomas, Cam Thomas, another team, bad team picks him up. He stays there for a few weeks, and they wave him. That Ocho, the brother act was averaging 30 in the NBA last season before he got hurt and he's out of the NBA. So come on, like, I want that type of talent in the NBA. I want somebody. I want that in the NBA. To where he takes tough shots. He'll tough shot maker. He can't find out, he can't find a home in the NBA. Now I don't know the other stuff that's going on, whether it's his attitude or he's not, you know what I'm saying? I don't know none of that. I don't have any of that information. But in terms of a basketball player and what we need in this league, what we want to see, that kid is one of the best scorers you will see in this league.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey, Mac. What I was gonna say, right, you know, if, if it make money, it makes sense especially to the owner, to the GMs. The bottom line, it will always be the same. And it's always been the same since the beginning of time. It's always about, it's always about the money. So with these two expansion teams, if Seattle is able to get one, if Vegas is able to get one, how long do you think it would take before they're able to produce the product or get the product necessary for those teams to compete? Or is that not possible because there's not enough basketball players in general?

[Tracy McGrady]

No, I, I think it is possible because I mean there are, you know, I think with some of these kids coming out of college, it depends on like how you construct your roster. There's some vets that's probably are, you know, up for a contract and, and possibly we'll look at that Las Vegas situation or look at Seattle, a phenomenal city to hoop it by the way. Vegas. But NBA players. Yeah, but that's a little tricky. That's Vegas. Hey, the girls can handle that. The WNBA players can handle that. The NFL players. It's more of a strict league. You know, you guys only got one game and y' all have a curse. NBA players got too much downtime, dog. Vegas might be a little tricky, but

[Joe]

TMac, tell us about the ones league that you found the check. What, what, what is the ones?

[Tracy McGrady]

So that's my one on one league, man. You know, I, I, you know, started a 101 league back in 2022 and it was my proof of concept season and I, I started this league because of where I am sitting today is because a platform that I got on when I was in high school and that was the ABCD camp. See if, if y' all don't know, I was an unknown high school square up until my senior year. Nobody really knew who I was. I got invited to the Adidas camp, become, you know, the number one player after that Adidas camp. And, you know, the story is, I go to the NBA and the rest is history. So it's that platform that really made me who I was and gave me a name. So I. It's a lot of Hoopers. Ocho, you know, you grew up down in the bottom, man. You grew up with some guys that, that. That can hoop like crazy and probably had, you know, a situation where someone in the family died and they had to pivot and, and step up and. And, you know, be the parent, the guardian in that situation or they just couldn't get it right as a. As a teenager and was in some trouble and, you know, ruined their careers or whatever. And then these guys just, just really didn't get the opportunity to live out their dream of playing basketball. Well, there's so many guys, so much talent and one on one out here, man, that I feel they should have that platform. Oh, you play, you played one on one growing up?

[Joe]

I did.

[Tracy McGrady]

Oh, you played one on one side.

[Joe]

Hey, T. Mac. You know, 21 was one on one. Basically it was one on one against 15 other guys.

[Tracy McGrady]

I was just about to say that, like, I grew up playing one on one, and then 21 was our one on one as well. So. Yeah, man, I just think these cats out here really need that platform. I want to create it for them. But on top of that, you know, it's much bigger than just giving them the platform to make a name for the self in basketball. I also want to do something for brothers that look like us in the ownership department. See, it's not too. It's in, in your league. It's not too many guys that look like us that have ownership. I was lucky enough. I was lucky enough to have that opportunity to go in with the Buffalo Bills with my cousin Vince. So we, you know, we, we. We got some ownership with that. And it just really, you know, sparked my interest. Like, I want to do this for my people and I want to change how I'm building this league. So I'm building it to have cities. I want cities and have guys like Jadakiss, who's from New York. I give him 15 of this team that's based out of New York. John Wall. John Wall is from Raleigh. I gave him 15 of that Raleigh team. And I have eight cities and eight owners and GMS that I assigned to this team. Gave them equity. I didn't want any money for them. I just handed it to them because they are impactful in those cities that they grew up. And then when you look at the game of basketball, our game of basketball, NBA. Like Steph Curry is not from Oakland or San Francisco. LeBron James is not from LA. These guys are homegrown from these, these cities. And I want that community to get behind them and push these guys and support these guys. So that's why I want to do this, man. And, you know, I'm really excited about giving these guys this platform.

[Lily Herman]

Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into into the underexplored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sport's most consequential driver strike, and plenty of other mishaps, scandals, and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no Grip on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Carrie Champion]

If you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast. Flagrant and Funny.

[Jemele Hill]

You want to start with the first question for the Big Ten coach of the Year?

[Joe (same as B, conversational partner)]

Oh, whatever.

[Jemele Hill]

Would you like to?

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Yeah, sure.

[Lily Herman]

So you're a Spartan.

[Jemele Hill]

Is that what I'm getting? Exactly.

[Carrie Champion]

So whether your bracket is busted or you just want the real talk on what's happening during the tournament, Open your free iHeartRadio app search flagrant and Funny with Carrie Champion and Jemele Hill. And listen.

[Jemele Hill]

Now presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Peace to the planet. Charlamagne Tha God here. And listen. We are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25 at home in yard. Yeah, and the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Age Podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague in the gang. Don't call me White Girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie, with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, drink champs will be in the building.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Plus, you know we're gonna have a lot of guests, so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival tickets are on sale right now. Go get [e-mail] podcast festival. Don't play yourself. Okay, pull up.

[Daniel Alarcon]

I'm Daniel Alarcon and this is my friend. He's much more famous than I am.

[John Green]

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co host of the podcast the Away End with my old friend Daniel.

[Daniel Alarcon]

On our podcast the Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things football, soccer is the most important.

[John Green]

Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy McGrady]

I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast Game Recognized Game has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think on and off the court. Nothing's off limits.

[Lily Herman]

We talk tanking.

[Tracy McGrady]

I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's like, definitely happening. In the wnba, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this the night before games. Check out Game Recognized Game with Stewie and miles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.