Best of NFL News Part 1: Big Ben DRAMA, Cousins RETURN?!

Summary

Nightcap — "Best of NFL News Part 1: Big Ben DRAMA, Cousins RETURN?!"

iHeartPodcasts & Shay Shay Media | Feb 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Nightcap, hosts Shannon Sharpe ("Unc") and Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson ("Ocho") dive deep into two of the NFL's hottest topics: explosive locker-room drama involving Ben Roethlisberger, Joey Porter Sr., and the Steelers, plus the swirling quarterback rumors around Kirk Cousins, Tua Tagovailoa, and Kyler Murray. With unfiltered takes, personal stories, and their signature chemistry, Unc and Ocho break down what’s real behind the headlines and what it all means for the teams and players involved.

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1. Steelers Drama: Big Ben’s Legacy Under Fire

Joey Porter Sr. Unloads on Roethlisberger

• At [02:05], the hosts react to Joey Porter Sr.’s candid comments about Ben Roethlisberger on Cam Heyward's podcast, calling out Ben for breaking the team “brotherhood.”

• Quote:

  “[Big Ben] broke the brotherhood… The shit that he's did is foul of all foul. He's not a good teammate… anybody in the Steeler building knows that. But we protected him… Do I love my quarterback? Yeah. But is he a good person? No.”
  — Joey Porter Sr. ([02:36])

• The guys marvel at how the code of silence (“Steeler business”) was shattered due to accumulating public jabs, especially after Ben criticized Mike Tomlin. Former players like Mason Rudolph, Mike Mitchell, and Mike Adams all commented online in support of Porter’s stance ([04:56]).

• Quote:

  “Being talking about anybody is comical.”
  — Joe ([05:11])

Culture, “Shielding” Players, and the Real Locker Room Dynamic

• Joe and Ocho break down how, inside the locker room, every flaw is known and usually covered up for team unity — until Ben crossed the line publicly ([06:01]).

• Quote:

  “We know them better than any reporter… All you see is the representative they want you to see. We know what the hell we talking about.”
  — Joe ([06:46])

• Ocho shares his own story of a halftime meltdown (snatching out his IV, blood everywhere) during a playoff game, to illustrate how much gets kept in-house—and how teammates look out for their own even when drama is bubbling over ([08:00]-[10:21]).

Teammates, Leadership, and Protecting the Brotherhood

• Sharpe outlines his own approach to leadership—being a good teammate even with direct competition—for the benefit of the player and the team ([14:08]).

• Quote:

  “If I got hurt, I was a horrible teammate, horrible leader if I hadn’t prepared that guy… It ain’t ‘he lost’—no, we lost.”
  — Shannon Sharpe ([15:00])

• The hosts highlight how rare it is for so many former teammates to speak out about a leader, and how it speaks to their respect for Mike Tomlin.

• They also revisit how Tomlin’s loyalty to Ben may have delayed the team's transition and potentially harmed their long-term prospects ([20:20]).

• Quote:

  “I don’t know why Ben would ever say anything negative about Coach Tomlin… it was Coach Tomlin that really harmed his own tenure in Pittsburgh by not getting a damn replacement because he didn’t want to tick you off.”
  — Joe ([20:20])

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2. NFL QB Carousel: Cousins Back to Minnesota?

Rumors: Cousins Return to Vikings

• At [22:41], attention shifts to the Kirk Cousins rumors: will he return to Minnesota after the Falcons reportedly plan to cut him?
• Ocho shares Justin Jefferson’s diplomatic response to Cousins possibly returning, noting Cousins’ familiarity with the offense and the production he brings, especially for star receivers ([23:05]).
• Quote:

  “The more people in the quarterback room the merrier… Having that veteran presence would be good.”
  — Ocho ([23:15])

• They debate JJ McCarthy’s prospects; if Cousins returns, he provides security but might be edged out by the rookie—or vice versa ([24:00]).

Lessons from Recent QB Moves

• Joe critiques Atlanta's original deal with Cousins (big money for a post-injury, non-mobile QB) and reflects on the conservative philosophy of having a veteran who won’t threaten the new draft pick ([25:13]).
• They analyze the butterfly effect of NFC QB movement, noting how losing/bidding for starters like Sam Darnold impacts not just the franchise but competitors like Seattle ([27:46]).

The Importance of Complimentary Football

• The hosts stress how success hinges on QBs simply not making mistakes when a defense is playoff-caliber—a tip of the cap to teams like the Seahawks ([29:01]).
• Quote:

  “All I need the offense to do is not to do is F it up… That’s complimentary football. They didn’t put the ball on the ground, give their defense short fields.”
  — Joe ([29:24])

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3. Trading Tua and Kyler: High-Priced, Low-Opportunity

The Market for Tua Tagovailoa and Kyler Murray

• Joe reports both Miami and Arizona are exploring trades for Tua (cap hit $56M) and Kyler ($52M); they ask who, if either, can bounce back in a new home ([33:32]).
• Ocho and Joe work through every possible NFL destination, finding that nearly every team is set at quarterback or not a good situation for a “bounce back,” landing no easy fits for these expensive, inconsistent players ([36:50]-[41:46]).

Why Kyler’s Star Fell

• The guys examine how injury and style of play have rapidly deflated Kyler’s stock; a small, scrambling QB who can’t reliably throw from the pocket is a tough sell after a major knee injury ([42:22], [43:08]).

• Quote:

  “It’s just hard for you to win a game like his style of play. You’ve got to learn to throw the football from the pocket.”
  — Joe ([43:08])

• The infamous “gaming clause” in Kyler’s contract gets called out as a public spectacle hurting his reputation ([44:01]).

• Quote:

  “I gotta write in Ocho's contract: you’re gonna study at least ten hours a week away from the facility. And then your agent let them put that into the contract, and you sign it. How?! They didn’t think that was going to get out.”
  — Joe ([44:01])

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4. What Really Makes Players Great

• Joe and Ocho riff on the difference between talented athletes and truly great professionals: sacrifice and discipline. Talent gets you to the league, but study and dedication keep you there and make you special ([47:57]).
• Quote:

  “Everybody wants to be great until it’s time to do things in order to be great—like sacrifice. The number one key to greatness is sacrifice.”
  — Joe ([47:57])

• Sharpe notes how NFL margins are so fine that even tiny "tells" are the difference between a win and a loss ([49:31]-[51:15]).

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5. Lighthearted Closing: Teeth, Showers, and ‘Saving Water’

• The show ends with classic Ocho/Unc riffing on shower routines and who pees in the shower, bantering about the daily habits of superstars and regular folks alike ([52:36]-[58:44]).
• Notable exchange:

  Ocho: “Listen, I take a good shower once a week, that's all I need. I don’t have nobody in the press. I’m not running up my water bill…”
  Joe: “I take a shower to go to the gym. I brush my teeth to walk the dog.”
  ([52:42]-[53:14])

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “He wasn’t a good person or a good teammate.” — Joe ([05:39])
• “We know them better than any reporter.” — Joe ([06:46])
• “If I got hurt, I was a horrible teammate if I hadn’t prepared that guy to win.” — Shannon Sharpe ([15:00])
• “All I need the offense to do is not to do is F it up.” — Joe ([29:24])
• “It’s just hard for you to win a game like his style of play.” — Joe ([43:08])
• “The number one key to greatness is sacrifice.” — Joe ([47:57])

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Takeaways

• Locker Room Codes Still Rule—Until Lines Are Crossed: The Roethlisberger drama exemplifies how tightly NFL locker rooms shield their stars unless trust is broken in a major public way.
• QB Moves Are High Stakes and Complicated: Quarterback musical chairs remains unpredictable; even talented, expensive veterans are running out of landing spots.
• Chemistry and Culture Matter: Teams willing to stand up for coaches like Tomlin signal deep-rooted respect and unity.
• Preparation > Talent: At the highest level, discipline separates the legends from the flashes.
• Ocho and Unc’s Chemistry: Even the “off-topic” banter says as much about the enduring appeal of this podcast as the headline segments.

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[End of Part 1]

(Contact iHeartPodcasts, Shay Shay Media, or tune in next episode for more instant, unfiltered sports talk.)

Transcript

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[Bowen Yang]

I'm Bowen Ying.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers.

[Bowen Yang]

During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hi Brian, Hi Matt.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey Elmo.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey Matt. Hey Bowen. Hi Cookie. Hi.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hello, it's your favorite sports UNC here. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button to join the fastest growing community on YouTube. Remember, Nightcap doesn't happen without you, so please subscribe or you're gonna make Ocho cry. Joy Porter Senior had a lot to say about Big Ben Roethlisberger on Cam Hayward's podcast. Let's Take a listen Ocho and Joe, what he had to say.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

He broke the brotherhood then seven definitely broke the brotherhood because like that's the one.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I don't understand the shit that seven.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Do that did that we don't talk about. I know is crazy. Like out of anybody should talk. He should never grab a microphone and really talk. Steal a business. Because if we talking Steeler business, his ass is foul of all foul. Like the shit that he's did is foul of all foul. He's not a good teammate won the Super Bowl, Woody. But the person he's just not a good teammate. Like he knows that. Anybody in the Steeler building knows that. But we protected him because I've only won one super bowl and that was my quarterback. So do I love my quarterback? Yeah. But is he a good person? No.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, what, what's going on over there? They need to have a, they need to call a meeting or something.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Something.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Coming to coming to God moment. This, this is the first listen. Obviously we heard Debo in his frustrations when the Steelers weren't playing well and he voiced his frustration with Mike Tomlin. We've heard other players. We heard Ben Roethlisberger be be he chastised Mike Tomlin as well. And, and now Joy Porter Senior coming to the defense of Mike Thomas saying, well, hell, Ben wasn't a great, great teammate. And there, there are things that happened. There were skeletons in the closet and we didn't let anybody know. And it's getting ugly over there, Joe.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

No, they didn't not they didn't let anybody know. They didn't talk about it because Ocho is going to be tough for being to get in on the first ballot. There's a lot I'm telling you every. Oh yeah, everybody knew some of the things that were going on that didn't get reported. Me, I'm not an inside. I ain't looking to put nobody personal business.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hold on. You knew what, what the hell happened? Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So I, I, I just think the thing is it's like look, I've only had a small interaction with being I met him in his rookie season. He, my brother and I had an appearance on Amelia Island. If I'm not mistaken, the Subo was in Jacksonville that year. With that being said, I'm not surprised. And if you go back and look, one of the first guys that commented under what what he said was Mason Rudolph. And then he had a big bullseye. There it is right there for yo Joe.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

What's going what's going on.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey, hey. Go off Joe. Hey, Mason Rudolph said go off Joe. Reporter55bullseye I'm a Mike Mitchell Peasy talking that talk. Mike Adams a hold them boys accountable. Being talking is about anybody is comical.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Well, hold on. Wait. Wait a minute. All the Steelers players know what's going on. Is, Is it. Is it that bad? I listen, I'm not. Don't put. I'm not asking, you know, to put his business out there, but is it that bad? Scale of 1 to 10. Remember halftime when we play the. And how. And nobody knows about what happened with me. So. Scale of 10. You understand how bad that was, right? Scale of 10. Is it worse than that?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I think the thing is, Ocho, is that there's a culmination and he. Look, I've been. And I think we've all. Joe, I think you could attest to this. We've been with guys that were great teammates but not good people. Yes, we've been with guys that were not good people but were great teammates. What Joey is saying, he is a combination. He wasn't a good person or a good teammate.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Well, God damn.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

If that's what I mostly. I deduce from what he was saying and, and, and, and, and for your look and most of the time, publicly, even if you, if you're the worst of the worst, your teammates will come to your defense because that's what you're supposed to do. And you see, this time they did that until he broke the code by coming after Mike Tomlin. And Peasy was like, hold on, bro. You should be the last one to talk about anybody in Pittsburgh. Don't talk about Pittsburgh business unless you want to talk about your business. And so that, that, that is the problem that you run into. And this is what I tell guys from the outside. You guys know this. We're with these people eight, nine hours a day, six months out of the year. We know them better than any reporter. We know them damn near better than their own family. So when they be saying all that other stuff and this and that, and fans be talking about, oh, you don't know. No, you don't know. We know what the hell we talking about because we see them in work, in ways and through a lens. You don't. So when fans keep talking about, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know. You don't know. All you do is see their representative that they want you to see and how they conduct themselves. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, see. Hey, Joe, you See how everyone is somewhat camouflaged and they're representative. They. They. They perceive to be someone else in front of the camera.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's why I was one way all the time. There's really nothing you can say, Joe. What you get on the show right now, Joe.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's the same thing you got on the field. I mean, you. Oh, hell, you know, you. You had to deal with me, talk about me from time to time, and what you see, the same fun loving, entertaining. Same way I was in the locker room now I. You know, I was late. I had an incident, Joe. I could tell you, Joe. I mean, it's long gone. We're playing the Steelers one game, Joe.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Carson got hurt towards a. Towards a playoff game.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I had that information, but I let it slide on Joe. I had that information. Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, you let it slide. You. You let it slide, Joe. He let it slide, right? This is my only asshole coming. Coming to asshole moment. It's halftime, Joe. I'm getting the iv. Joe. We come in, I'm hot because Carson goes down. Why are we not including me in the offense? Why are we allowing the Steelers to dictate what we doing in a playoff game, a game of this importance? Yeah, Joe, I lost it, Joe. I snatched the IV out my hand. I come out the room, blood flying everywhere. Joe.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

What?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Joe, I. Joe. Joe, I lost it. I swear for God. I swear to God, I lost it. And I came out and I'm fussing, and I'm not screaming at anybody directly. I'm just snapping in general. Man, get me the ball. Give me the ball. It's not that hard. I. I can do. I can do whatever you want me to do. Just give me the ball. Marvin, shut up. Hugh Jackson came over. Nigga, you. Hey, you done choked me out.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You was asleep.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You done choked me out.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

This. This is how Ocho was when Ocho got upset. Shoe was. Shoe was the guy that got all the venom. That was. He was. He was the pin cushion that Ocho put. Yeah, because you knew how to. He knew how to relate. He knew how to deal with Ocho.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So Ocho, all of us. Ocho's frustration, even though he was talking, it was Hugh that could get Ocho off the cliff. But we. I had that information. I say, you know what? And I'm sure they would love. Love for me to. But, no, not. We good. That ain't my job. Now, if somebody else did it, we were gonna have to talk about it. But I was like, nah, I ain't talking about that. And. And. And especially with something of that magnitude when they trying to make somebody like us look bad. I ain't gonna do it.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I ain't gonna even hold you. But there are a lot of stuff when you. When you in the line of business that we were. That I was in, working with cbs, working with Undisputed, people will call and tell me, hey, check this out. You ain't hear from me. Put it in your words. I was like, man, if I were to say this, they gonna know exactly. This came. This came, came, came from inside the locker room. How else would somebody know that? And I ain't trying to put nobody out there like that.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, Joe. I would hurry, Joe. Hey, I would hurry. I mean, I had the needle in my arm, Joe. I ain't even care. I just. I just snatched it out. I'm like, no, we are not letting these people come in our house and dictate what we do offensively. Are we even trying to win? Like, I'm like, come on, man. Okay, Carson is down. Jon Kitner comes in the game. That shouldn't stop anything we trying to do offensively. And it's like, what are we doing? And I was hurt, Joe. I was hurt because I understood how difficult it was for us to even get to this point.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

And competing. Competing. Boy, they bring it out of you, man. Bring that fire to you. Can't. Hey, look, you be like me when we was in New York. You see red and you just go off. You know what I'm saying?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh, you went off before.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah, I'm saying. I know what you mean. You know, you want that ball. You want. Hey, hey, man, bring that ball over here and stop playing. Tough. Because they shielded Bim with a lot of things, and a lot of stuff that was going on, they knew. And some. A lot of. Look, if you got a great rapport with a reporter, they'll catch and kill a lot of stuff that won't make it a lot of stuff. If. If you ingratiate yourself in the city, you ain't gonna get no trouble. The cops will drive you home. Yeah. Want to get in your car, drive your car home. You get the police car, they drive you to. Where you going? Park your car and get back and get going.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You ingratiate yourself in the city. If you like, if you got a dick or. You know what? That's how they treat you. I'm not telling what somebody told you. I'm telling you what I know.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So when I talk to you, chat When I talk to y', all, when y' all hear Ocho and I. And I know y' all think Ocho joke a lot, but when I talk to you, I'm not telling what somebody told me. I'm telling you what I know with first hand knowledge. Yeah. I just don't do it. I don't like to say, well, where I. I'm not going to tell you where I got it from. But a lot of people still call me. I'm still him. Yeah, Yeah. I fell on some hard.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Okay, pop it up. Pop it, pop it.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Let them know.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, okay.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

All right. Hey, hey. I'm telling you, I still have great relationships with teams. A lot of my coaches and a lot of people that was in front office have bounced around. So you do realize, like a tree, like Sean McVeigh. So if I had a relationship with Sean McVeigh and all these other guys that bounced around, therefore, guess what? You got a relationship with all those other guys they're going to trust.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yes.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Kyle Shanahan the same way. So if there's anything that I wanted to know, y' all don't really think I could find out, right?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Damn, man. Joe, you ever snapped before, Joe?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I probably had some heated moments.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

See, y' all don't let. See, y'. All let Joe, come on. Because in them playoff moments, bro, it's like you out there fighting, trying to do whatever you can just to get a win. And you know, in basketball, it's a seven game series. Yeah. It ain't like, you know, yeah, we could be better than them for a game or two, but seven games, bro, the best team normally gonna win. So you definitely gonna have some frustrating moments, bro. Cause look, at some point, Uncle Ocho, y' all know this. In basketball, we know all your plays, you gonna run. We know what you trying to do and how you trying to do it. Right now, it's your will against my will. You know what I mean? So it's a little different. Yeah, it's.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Dang.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

It's tough. It's tough. But I. I don't. I don't get it though, Joe. I don't. And I know there. There are times that. Look, I've always. Joe and you know this. Ocho, they're bringing guys in, though. I don't care how many Pro Bowls, they're going to bring receivers in. They're constantly looking to replace you. That's just the nature of the beast. But I know he can't beat me for this job right now. If you go Ahead and move me on out the way. Well, you ain't got to worry. He ain't got to worry about nothing but just beat me. Says, okay, this job is up for grab. Made the best man win. Well, I guess I was the best man because I'm a win. It's really that simple. But I've always. Because I looked at it like this, guys, if I got hurt, I was a horrible teammate. I was a horrible leader. If I had not prepared that guy to go out there and help this team win, I was selfish. I'm withholding information from him that can help him get better. That would indeed. And then and turn around and help the team. So that's why I always put my arms around a guy. And the guys will tell you, hey, man. Man. They call me Sharp or they call me Shay. And so that means. That means a lot to me. That means a lot because I wasn't concerned about somebody, man. You know, they brought him in to replace. Okay, hell, I replace somebody. It's a circle. Yeah, that's what happens. But I've always. I've always. I've always really guys tried to be a good teammate. I've always was I was I selfish early in my career, probably when I was in. I was even a good team. I was a good teammate in high school and college. But I wanted to win so bad, and I thought that it was all about me. And as I got older and I realized what it took in order to win that they needed. There were some other guys. There were some other me guys that was just as good as Shannon Sharp and that could help this team win also. But I'm telling the guys, hey, you come in the huddle. You, you with me. You're a tight end. Hey, the receivers, you know what you got? You the hot now. Hey, they bring. Hey, they bring two. We got it picked up if they bring one. But if they bring two, you're hot. You good? Yeah, I'm good. You know what you got, you got to dig. Oh, if it's covered too. Get up the rail because I'm getting down the hole. I'm. I'm constantly telling guys what they got. I just. That's just the way I am, man. I just. I wanted to win. I wanted to help the guys win. I'm holding information. I know he don't know what to do. It ain't my fault. Then he go out there and blow the assignment. We throw a pick. Who did that? Hell, we go, we lose. We losing as a team. It ain't oh, he lost. Yeah, no, we lost. That's just the way I am. But I've always tried to be a good teammate. I tried to be a good person. And sometimes the two things can be true. You could be a good teammate and a crappy person. You could be a crappy person and a good teammate. Hopefully more times than not, you like to see guys a little bit. Both. Yeah. B O F F both. But it is what it is. That's rattle, you know, to have to have the leader of your team be both. You know, you, you, you probably get one. But when you got your teammates coming out saying stuff about you, bro, I mean, it says, it says a lot about, you know, the love, respect and admiration that they have for Mike Tomlin as well, though. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. So I, I can appreciate that, bro. You know, they ain't gonna just let you just say anything though. And I get a part of me get. Because I think the thing is that kind of like Debo is that the last year that he and Mike didn't see eye to eye and they ended up releasing him and things of that nature. Even though the Broncos didn't resign me, I never said anything bad about Mike. Right. I didn't. Okay. You felt, you feel, you know, you ain't got no use for a seven time Pro Bowler, five time All Pro. You ain't got no use for him. Okay. Gotta help you win two Super Bowls, you ain't got no use for him. You believe the guy that you got on the roster, that you could draft somebody that's better. Okay, fine. I appreciate the opportunity. I appreciate you coming in, coming in. And this offense is very, very tight end friendly. I appreciate that. But it meant a lot for me that when I came back, he and I had a conversation and even say I was wrong because a lot of times, Ocho, they just base everything on what they see on the field. They don't see the practices, they don't see the bus rides, they don't see the locker room, and they don't see what you did in those spaces that caused you to be successful on the field. Yeah, that's the fun right there. So now all of a sudden, you find yourself, people in your office every day, stuff that you never had to worry about when they four was in the locker room.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

That. That's what it, that's what it means a lot. And my teammates, they vouch for me. Yeah, yeah. They make jokes talking about Lazarus. They say ain't nobody rising from the dead. Border you. But Lazarus, that's what offensive line used to call me Lazarus, Ocho. Because I would be. Look, Addy D. Wobbling ankles, man. You know, back then, Ocho people hip drop you damn near every play.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

No penalty for the hip drop and cowboy collar and all that stuff.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You gotta learn. You gotta learn to roll with it.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yes. Yes. But I. I don't know. In a situation like this, I don't know if I'm being. I'm not responding. Just let it go. It'll die down.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Being a quarterback, I don't. I don't think it's been. That's not in Ben's character. Probably to be confrontational, especially publicly. It says a lot about Mike Tomlin for. For some of the players like Joey Porter Senior to be coming to his defense and, and what former players are saying, like, y' all got y' all nerve. Y' all got your nerve to say anything about Mike Tomlin when he's part of the reason for your success when you were there. So sometimes as players, you forget about that because it's. It's in the past. If you got all that a coach has done for you while you were.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

There and a part of this. I don't know, Bob, Ben would ever say anything negative about Coach Tomlin because it was Coach Tomlin that really harmed his own tenure in Pittsburgh by not getting a damn replacement because he didn't want to tick you off.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. Funny how that works.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yes. So. There's a lot we could be talking about this story.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtested against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures does your dessert game need a makeover? Scoop it or swirl it. That's the sound of an ice cream shop on your countertop. Ninja Creami turns almost anything into flawless ice cream. Sweet, indulgent or macro friendly treat.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Repeat.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Bowen Yang]

I'm Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers.

[Bowen Yang]

During this season of the Two Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hi Boen.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hi Matt.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey Elmo.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey Matt. Hey Bowen. Hi Cookie. Hi.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

We gonna move it on. Hey, I think we've got enough. The Vikings are expected to add a veteran quarterback to the roster and rumors are first Cousins Kirk Cousins could be back in Minnesota. The Falcons are expected to cut Cousins before the new league year begins in March. Oo do you want to see Cousins back in Minnesota?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I think it would be dope. I think it'd be great. I think it'd be, it'd be great for Justin Jefferson, huh? Obviously I had a appearance with Justin Jefferson with, with Lowe's in San Francisco before, before I got home and the news had already broke, the rumors had already broke a cross a tick ESPN about them the Falcons releasing Kirk Cousins at some point and I asked, I asked J.J. you know, how would you feel about that? Listen, the more people in the quarterback room the merrier, you know, having that veteran presence would be good.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

J.J. mcCarthy out.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I mean obviously I know that because we know what Justin Jefferson was able to do with Kirk Cousins. We know Kirk Cousins at the helm at that quarterback position who already knows that offense, you know what the numbers going to look like, you know during the regular season, you know, you know what they gonna look like he might.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

The pro season but JJ gonna have 115 catches.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

16, 17, 1600. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most definitely. So with him, with, with, with JJ understanding that and really being PC with his answer to me, he, he was, he, he was cheering for both quarterbacks and if Kurt Cousins has the opportunity to come back, listen, more quarterbacks in the quarterback room, the better for us as a team collectively. But I mean I think it's cool. I think it makes the most sense. It's a, it's an offense that Kirk is familiar with. You saying he might be J.J. mcCarthy out. Let's say he doesn't beat J.J. mcCarthy out. It's a good veteran presence to have in that, in that locker room. And if, if JJ starts playing bad, they won't have any problem. They won't have any issues, you know, making that switch and making that change at any point if they feel they have an opportunity to, to contend and make.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I believe that's one of the reasons that they moved on from Darnold. They knew Darnold would beat him out. Oh, if I bring a veteran in, I bring a veteran in. I got to bring one that can't win the job.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

If I bring a veteran in O and he good. I didn't, I didn't OO I didn't like this signing from Atlanta from day one. I didn't. No. And I said it. I said Ocho the bet they needed.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

They need a security blanket.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm saying for Atlanta. Oh what they had, what they had to sign him for coming off that injury. I said the best you could possibly hope for. You hoping that the man gives you two years but what if he only gives you one and then you go draft a quarterback that high. You drafted a quarterback that already had multiple injuries. I, I don't. And it didn't make a whole lot of sense. And Matt Ryan didn't make. He was non committal to Pennix Jr. Like, well, you know, hey, we know. I see him up there all the time. I mean, you know, I'm in the building often and, and, and, and I know he's working hard. That wasn't no commitment. I didn't know. Yeah. He's our quarterback.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

But you, you and you also have to understand Matt Ryan knows what you need.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Matt Ryan quarterback.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

He's a, he's, yeah. He's an evaluator of talent. He knows what it's supposed to look like and he knows what you need to get over the hump. Obviously not winning a Super bowl but.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Going to 1:23 lead. All they had to do was run the football, run the ball.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. That wasn't, that wasn't his fault. That wasn't. Hey, that it wasn't much he could do in that situation because he would.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Have called if I got a 28. 3 lead. There is no way in hell the team that has three have more rush attempts in the second half than me.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Me. Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Let that sink in the team that's losing 283 got more rush attempts than the team winning 28 3. Make it make sense.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's crazy.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

But I tell you what, who didn't make that mistake, Clint Kubia can't make that mistake, did he? I don't give a damn. Hey, I understand. I'm so. Hey, K9, I'm sorry you lost three yards, but we're gonna hand it to you again. Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, get that three yards exactly.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Because I, I, I, I've got to. Because that's time. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Cause you throw it in incomplete, stops the clock.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

If I run the ball, if I get one first down, Ocho, I'm gonna take damn near three minutes off the clock with one first down. Don't let me get two or three. And that's all they needed to do. What? Hey, that happened many, many years ago. But, yeah, I, I, I definitely think the Vikings. The Vikings are kicking themselves. They saw Sam Darnold. Now, that's not to say Sam Darnold would have led them. I'm not saying that. But Sam Darnold was better than what you had. You make the. I believe you make the playoffs with Sam Darnold, and now with that, you take Sam Darnold away from the Seahawks. Now they've got to go in a different direction.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So not only do I build, I build myself up, Ocho. I, I weaken an opponent. Because at the end of the day, isn't that what I'm trying to do? Yes, I'm trying to. I'm trying to win. It's like I'm in court. I'm. Yes, I'm trying to. I'm trying to make a very compelling argument for my client. But I'm also trying to punch holes in the prosecution or the defense.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Right.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So if I can do two things, I'm cool. I got it. Yeah, you don't.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You know what I think? I'm not saying they would have won a Super bowl, but I think offensively, that defense over there in Minnesota was good enough, especially with Brian Flores calling that defense. He didn't have the legion. He didn't have the legion to boom. He didn't have the dark side similar to that of the Seattle Seahawks in the defense they have. But the pieces that he did have, he always put him in the right.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah, but they could get out to the quarterback. Now, they know they weren't, they weren't as. They weren't as formidable as the Seahawks, but with a different quarterback. Now, maybe they're Playing more this. I mean, you think about it, Sam Darnold tied for the league. League and interceptions. I mean, for turnovers.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So imagine if they didn't have to defend as much as they had to defend.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Had to. Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You saw them yesterday. You saw them in the postseason. I think they're the first team in postseason history to go the entire postseason, a minimum of three games, and not turn the ball over.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, and that, that, that. That was the issue. That's all we wanted to know, though. Can he do it? Can he keep the ball out of the other team's hand?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

That's my only concern.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

They will have. They will have. They will have an opportunity.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

They got it. Look, there are a handful of teams. I look at Houston, I look at Seattle, and I look at the Broncos. They had defenses that could win you a game. All I need the office to do, not to do is F it up. You go back and look at Houston. What did the office do in New England? F it up. What did the office for the Broncos do in Denver? F it up. Seattle's offense didn't monk it up for the defense. And they're the world champs for a reason. Yeah. And that's what you have. That's complimentary football. They didn't put the ball on the ground. They didn't give. They didn't give. Put their defense in harm's way. Ocho. Giving them short fields. They didn't give scooping scores. Pick sixes and okay, good luck driving the ball 75, 80 yards on this defense. You might get one. But if you think you about to make a living going 12, 13 plays, taking seven, eight minutes off the clock. Okay, let me know how to work out for you at the end of the game.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Not happening. Not against that defense.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

No, it's not. But I can see Cousins going back. I don't know where he's gonna live. I don't know. I mean, I'm assuming he's from Michigan. He went to Michigan State, so I'm assuming he's from somewhere. Michigan, the Midwest. He seems more of a. A Minnesota, Michigan type of guy as opposed to Atlanta type of a guy. But I understood Minnesota moving on because he tore. He tore his Achilles. Ocho, I can't give you. I mean, Atlanta basically gave him $50 million coming off on the tour. A guy that's non mobile, that's coming off an Achilles injury.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No, hey, hold on. And now he's a year removed from.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Another year removed from that.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

So he'll be. That. He'll be that much better.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

He's familiar. He's. He spent, what, three, four years in that system with Kevin o', Connell, so he knows it, you know, just unlearned, you know, the two years that he was in Atlanta and learned that. That won't take long because I remember when I went to Baltimore, having to learn a new system when I got back to Denver, Ocho, in like three or two or three days, it was good. I was absolutely good. But Minnesota, making use of that. You said use a veteran presence, but at the end of the day, J.J. mcCarthy is going to have to become something. Ocho, because you gave up a guy. It's not like, say, ocho, he got $4 million in incentives. Ocho, you could have tied. You could put that. Minnesota could have gave those same incentives.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Damn.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You could have gave him those same incentives. If Sam Darnold is 33, maybe I can get Sam Darnold. Probably only like 26, 27.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. I didn't think they didn't want to keep him out because they knew he wasn't gonna be. He wasn't gonna be Sam out. It wasn't gonna make no sense. It wasn't gonna make no sense. Especially coming off the season. He just had no. Let's go ahead and get rid of him. Let's go ahead and get rid of them. Let J.J. mcCarthy take the hand.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You ain't gonna be looking over your shoulder because what you call them, Sam Darnold's gonna be in front of you. You look over your shoulder with something behind you, Sam's gonna be in front. That man won 14 games, Ocho. Hell, I think he went to the Pro bowl last year. Sam's 28, so. Hello. How old? J.J. mcCarthy. J.J. mcCarthy. Probably 24. So we'll see how this thing plays out. Yeah. Hey, this is what the off season for. They're gonna be a lot of moving and shaking. Ocho. I think we're gonna have a. A season where a lot of turnover.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

JJ is 23.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Damn. That's it.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You know, he came out early.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh, that's right. Golly. He going into his third year, right?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Third year.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's crazy.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah. I mean, if. If you don't. Red shirt. Yeah. You gonna come out at. At 21, 22. Because I didn't register. So I got drafted at 21, turned 22 in June. If you red shirt, you're Gonna probably be 23 now. If you red shirt and still come out or. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you red shirt and come out as a as a, as a sophomore. You know what I'm saying? So we'll see, we'll see how that, how that plays out for him. But the Minnesota boy, they blew that one. Adam Shelter report that the Dolph and Cardinals are both looking to trade Tua and Kyler Murray. Murray counts 52.7 against the cap. Tua carries a $56.3 million cap hit. Oo if you had one quarterback to bet on having a career bounce back similar to Sam Darnold, you taking Tua or you taking Kyler?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Ooh, that's a good. Oh, that's a good one. Honestly, as far as having a bounce back similar to that of Sam Darman, Sam Darnold.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures if you're an.

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[Bowen Yang]

I'm Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers.

[Bowen Yang]

During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games. We've been joined by some of our friends.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hi, Vaughn.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hi, Matt.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey, Elmo.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's not possible.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yeah. What team you putting them on?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I mean, the team you would have to put them on. You'd have to move the current quarterback who's already, who's already a top, top quarterback at his position and the team he's already on. I mean, there are no scenarios that are no situations where Kyle Tua can go to a team that has a phenomenal defense with good pieces, will have something similar to that of JSN or a Cooper cup and have a Kenneth Walker in the goddamn backfield that you just plug yourself in. And all you have to do is play good football at the quarterback position. Don't turn the ball over, let your defense do the job. There are no scenarios, there are no hypotheticals you can make up because all the, all the good teams that are on the verge already have a starting quarterback. There's really nowhere they can go.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Man. I'm trying to, I'm just being honest. I'm trying to figure out where you could put them. The Jets.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I mean, I can see Khaled going to the Jets. I can see that. But you're still back in the same position.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I, I'm just trying. Atlanta who? Either one of them?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No, you already have one left handed quarterback. You don't need a second. You already have one that's mobile. You already have.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You think?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Somewhat. A little bit. He's more mobile than Two.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Is he more mobile than Kyler? Absolutely not. You like Kyler in Atlanta.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Okay.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Oh, I mean, when you, when you survey the market, there's not a whole lot of places they can go.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No, it's, it's not. I, I mean, I understand that and I'm, I'm, I'm trying to say it in the nicest way possible where they can actually flourish and, and, and kind of elevate a team. There are no situations like that. There's not, there aren't any. May, maybe they can do a team swap. You know, Miami, I mean, Tua goes for Miami.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I don't think there's maybe the Steelers. What you mean if Aaron Rodgers don't come back? But it seems like He, I, they don't know what he's going to do. Mike McCarthy, he's very familiar with Mike McCarthy.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

He coming back. You know, Aaron Rodgers is going to draw it out. He's going to keep the eyes on him. He's going to keep the attention on him as long as he can. Have everybody not have to go to OTAs. Yeah, not that. That too. And if he didn't want to go, he doesn't have to go. But yeah, he'll be back. Obviously McCarthy and him have a situation. They played together, they've had success together. And I'm sure he's probably going to come back wanting to play for a coach that he's familiar with.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm thinking, man, I'm trying to put, I'm trying to wrap my head work where. I mean they can't go nowhere in the NFC west because AFC west, because it seems like the Raiders are going to take Mendoza.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Fernando Herbert isn't Chargers.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Bo Nix and Patrick Mahomes. So that's a no go. Let's go say let's go see the AFC East. You got the jets. They're not going to Buffalo. They not going to the Patriots. So. And Miami is trying to get rid of one now like you said, maybe Kyler comes there. Okay, let's go to the AFC South, Jack. No. Houston. No. Tennessee. No. Indy.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

No AFC North.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Everybody had every.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Cleveland. No. No Cincinnati.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Come on now.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Baltimore.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Child, please.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Pittsburgh.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Ah, now that's, that's a toss up. Aaron Rodgers comes back for a year. You sit behind Aaron Rodgers, man, you.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Ain'T paying nobody no 50 something million dollars to sit on no damn bench.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I mean, hey, it is, it's not looking good.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

It's not.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

When you, when you break, when you break it down that way. I didn't even have to break it down the way you did. I just understood there, there are no opportunities, you know, to be able to go anywhere else and, and have that, that, that fairy tale ending that, that Sam do.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Chicago is a no. Detroit's a no. Green Bay is a no. Minnesota is probably a no. Dallas is a no. The Giants is a no. Washington is a no. The Eagles are no. Let's go to the South. Tampa is a no. Atlanta May, let's say hypothetical Atlanta, Carolina.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

New Orleans. No.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Nope. I think they, they, they, they, they think Tyler Shook is, is the answer for answer long term.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Exactly. So you go to NFC West. Seattle. No. San Fran. No. Rams. No. In Arizona. So when you really look at it, oh, there's only a Handful of places.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, it ain't even a handful.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Okay, maybe two. Two or three.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

That's it. You know, and those are the team you don't want to go to because you're right back at the same situation. You just left. That bad. It's bad. It's tough. And for the teams that are left, you have to be that much better to be able to make a difference.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yes.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You have to be that much better at the quarterback position to move the needle for that team. You need the quarterbacks right now that are free, that are on the move, need teams that can elevate their level of play. They're not going to do it anywhere else.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm trying to figure out, Ocho, how did I know how Kyler fell off so quick, you know, something I don't know.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Injury. Uncle got hurt. That's it. He got hurt. He got hurt. That knee, you know, I mean, that. That's. That's an important part of. Of what he does, you know, being able to move, being able to get him get himself out the pocket, being able to extend plays, create plays and play off script. It's not like he can sit back there, go from under center and drop back and see over everybody. He has. He has to move and he has to be rolled out. And I mean, you know, he has to have a specific game plan offensively to use, you know, to play to his strengths.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I just. It's just hard for you to win a game like his style of play. You've got to learn to throw the football from the pocket. Yeah. I wish I could tell you. Look at. Go back and look at the quarterback. Study the quarterbacks.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I haven't watched enough film on him. You would know better than. I don't get to see Arizona.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Like you said, he's small. He's small, yeah. Height, stature.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yes.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You're talking about a guy, what, 5, 9, 5 10, ish?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

If that. Yeah. Baker Mayfield. Same.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I think Baker's about six.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Okay.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

The problem, Ocho, is that he's gonna have to escape, you know, he's gonna have to escape what was written into his contract.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh, gaming.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Yep. It's hard to overcome that. I gotta write. I gotta write in Ocho's contract. You're gonna work on your routes, Ocho. You're gonna study at least 10 hours a week away from the facility. And then your agent allowed them to put that into the contract. And you sign it. Right. How? They didn't think that was going to get out.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You know, they. They gonna snitch on you. The house, as I call it. The house. Gonna snitch on you every time. Every time. Every. Every time. A source.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

But he said that he likes gaming. You know, when he's away from football. This thing gotta be all. If you play that position now, maybe a wide receiver, maybe some other position. Yeah, but if you play that position, it's all encompassing.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, you gotta be.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Gotta be all encompassing the way it is. So I know that whatever that man do in his free time. Okay. Right. Okay. He can do whatever he want to do in his free time. Okay. As long as that free time involves studying, how good it comes down to this, how great do you want to be?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. Well, you. You got to be able to do something outside of. Outside of that. I think we. We had a con.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So what they did what they put out of the contract. So what was he doing outside of it? More than studying. What was he doing?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, I'm. I'm someone on the game. They felt he was on the game.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

More than he was studying before they realized. Before they caught on, you know, those tablets. Teams could see, actually how much you studied.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. How much time they called.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

They just caught on recently. So everybody going home, taking the tablet home, they didn't realize that the teams could see how on. And when you cut it off, actually, how much time. It took him a while.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. You know what? You know what? What cured that? Whether he opened that tablet or not, whether he played games or not, if you're winning, if you win, if you're.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Not studying, you're not winning.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Winning, Winning. You're winning cures.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

If you're not studying at that position, you not winning. Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Oh, that all depends on how.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I don't give a damn how great you are not at that position because the defenses are too complex. Ojo.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

What did Pat Mahomes say?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

What do you say?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

After his first super bowl.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

He didn't really know what he was doing. He was studying his ass off. He just didn't know what he was doing.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I mean, study. Studying your ass off and still not knowing the answers and having success is. Is. Damn. That's. Damn.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So you. So in other words, you saying Patrick Mahomes. So you saying Patrick Mahomes was doing what? What Kyler was doing?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No, what I just said that. What I just said was it's winning cures all. He won. He won not knowing what he was doing. That's how great he is. Kyler Murray's not goddamn Patrick Mahomes. Therefore, you put all those clauses in there you think Pat Mahomes plays video games? Probably so.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm not so sure Tom Brady paid Manning. But how much? Because the question is, it's not whether he's playing. How much time is he devoting to that as opposed to devoting to it?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Right. As opposed to craft.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Everybody has stuff that they do outside.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. Tom don't play no damn video games, and Manny don't play.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I know. I just said that.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. I could tell you that. No, they do not. Nah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

How great do you want to be, man? See, a lot of people, Ocho, a lot of people say they want to be great at us. Everybody wants success until it's time to do things that cause you to be successful. Everybody wants to be great until it's time to do things that in order for you to be great, like sacrifice. The number one key to greatness is sacrifice, because you must be willing to give up something.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Something. Yeah. And after you give that up, you have to have the discipline to follow through consistently.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

What discipline is. Actually, Even if you sacrifice, you have to have the discipline to follow through with it.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Because, see, even. Even. Even when I sacrifice something, Ocho, do I have the discipline to go out there and train?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Do I? Do I have that? And. And I think the thing is, look, a lot of times, Ocho, the biggest thing is what I've seen from my time, and you let me know what you think. I see guys that come in that's immensely talented and they got away with such certain things in college, and they think they can come to the NFL and still do certain. Certain things.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Doesn't work that way.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

The guys are too good, man.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You'll get it. Hey, you'll get exposed. You'll get exposed in NFL because the margin of error is so small. Because everyone else is just as good as you. Everyone else is just as good as you. And it's the small. The small things that. That. That. That differentiate between you and the next person.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You hear Spoon, one little niche. You hear Spoon saying, well, we got a tail on their guards and tackles or how they set. And so we knew. We knew. If we did think about it, he said there was a tail. They didn't even know they were doing it. Yeah, they didn't know they were doing it on Joe.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Right.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

So that's how small they're looking for any little. I mean, this. Yeah, this. The games are decided like that. That's why a lot of times defensive linemen like to listen to the snack to the. The TV copy because they want to Hear the quarterback's voice, inflection. They want to get his cadence. Zoom in a. Zoom in on the center's hand. Let me see if he's squeezing the ball. Let me see. Let me see how he's sitting. Is it a run or a pass? Let me see what this receiver is doing. Left leg up, right leg up. Every time his right leg up, he running that bang. Yeah, he don't even know. He don't think we know. But when that leg go up. I told you what AG Jump it.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, I told you what AG Told me. Aaron.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Aaron.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Glenn.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, Ocho. Every time you come out the huddle, I know it's a run play because you come out to the huddle, relax and do nothing. Every time it's a pass, you tight. You fix your glove, you tighten them up. You take the stripper, you take the strap across and you tighten them up. I say, AJ AG I said, AG how the hell you paying attention to all that? Man, I'm looking for any and everything. Boy, as a veteran, I look for any and everything. And he told me after the game, yeah, anything.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm looking at how you. How you stagger your stance. It's going to tell me if you come in on the blitz or you drop any coverage, right? You square? Okay. You gonna try to set the edge. You trying to get. I mean. Yes, Ocho, we know. We need to know coverage. Okay. Did we come out here? We're in a base formation, 21 personnel, two wide receivers are tied in, two bats. Oh, come out. We come out 11 personnel. We come out 12 personnel, 13 personnel. We come out empty. Okay, I understand certain formations. Ocho on first down, this is the coverage they like to give. Well, second down, this is the coverage I like to give. Okay, Second and short. Second and long. Third and short. Third long. I want to know the coverages, but I also need to know what this mofo gonna do. How does he get to said coverage? Right? It's the little stuff. He who hesitates beat.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Thank you.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You ain't want to do this.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I said I chew.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

And then you gonna go shake somebody head, too.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Lord have mercy, it's 11 o' clock at night. Matter of fact, it's 11:11. Chat. Wish yourself some type of luck of whatever it is people do at 11:11. But I'm home. I'm home by myself. Ain't nobody gonna shake nobody hand.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Tomorrow you will. I sneeze and you know you don't like the shower. Hey, hey.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Huh? Listen, I take a good. I take A good shower once a week, that's all I need. I don't have nobody in the press. I'm not running up my water bill when I'm not going nowhere. I'm not doing that. I love my water bill to be under 50.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I take a shower to go to the jail. See?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Come on, man, you. I mean, what you doing, man?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I take a shower to go to the gym, man. I brush my teeth to walk the dog. I get up early in the morning, I brush my teeth to walk the dog.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You brush your teeth to walk the dog?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Oh, so what if I see somebody? What if somebody walks?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Absolutely no sense. That makes.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

What if I have. What if somebody walking their dog and they're going to carry on the conversation and I'm in there and I'm in them people face breast. Miller. Like, get back.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

No, no, you get up, Chad.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Y' all leave your house without brushing your teeth. Let's just say for the sake of argument, y' all going somewhere quick. And you wake up in the morning, Chad, do y' all brush your teeth before y' all leave the house?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

But you said leave the house. You said walk in the door.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

That's leaving the house. What do you think, I'm walking him in the house? No, you.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You ain't going.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

You ain't going nowhere. I'm.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Man, listen, I'm grabbing a leash and I'm walking my ass out the goddamn door with my phone. Now, if it's time to eat, you brush your teeth before it's time to eat. Oh, I'm going. No, that's. You wasting water again. You're not. You got. You got to think and learn how to save, minimize when and when you don't use your water.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm doing what they call intermittent fasting now, Ocho, so I don't eat before 11 o'.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Clock.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Wait, faster. I eat my last meal at about 7. Well, I ate my last meal about 6. About 6 o' clock tonight. Normally, I'll eat my last meal around 7, 7:30. And I won't eat again until about 11, 11:30, maybe even 12. So I walk the dog, I brush my teeth, I walk the dog. I come back, I lay back down for about an hour. I get up, I brush my teeth to go get on the bike to work out, right? I come back in, I eat breakfast, I take a shower. Obviously, I got to brush my teeth while I take a shower, right? Okay, well, I do. I do my.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I do my. I do mine in the shower. I have everything set up in the.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Shower, man, that's nasty, man.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

What are you talking about, man? You get in the shower, lather up. Hey, you know about that.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

That.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You know about that dial, that Dial Cranberry soap? No. Or you use body wash?

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I use body wash. I hadn't used bar soap. But you still use bar soap?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah. Hey, what? That Dial Cranberry. Unknown. I can't even find it no more. I can't. Dial. Dial. If you happen to see this at some point, can you please. I think it's discontinued. They don't have it anymore. The Dial Cranberry soap. I need more. Please do me that favor. Hey, Unc. Now, I do have body wash, right? The young lady. The young lady that cleans my house, her name is Ms. Yvonne. She bought me peppermint. It come in a clear jar, like some peppermint soap. And when it touch your body, it tingle. It make you feel like you cold. Yeah. So I use it once, but I haven't used it outside of that. So I do have that body wash outside that. I love my Dial Cranberry soap. And I brush my teeth while I'm in the shower.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I. I ain't. I ain't never did. I. I hate, man. I. I used to. Boy, Ocho, I ain't gonna lie. I'll be in the shower. When I was in college, because we had community showers in college. You know how they deal. You know, you got. I think we had one, two, three. I think we had probably like six, maybe eight showers, man. Guys start brushing their teeth. I get out the shower. It annoyed me, man. I don't know why stuff just annoyed me. Stuff like. But it just annoyed me. I like, bro, you brush your teeth. The guys lathered up, slapping soap suds and every. Every damn way. Hell, no, man. Don't worry about it, man. I'm just gonna get on. Y' all have it. Nah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, hey. One stop shop. One stop. One stop shop. And it's very convenient. It's convenient for me, you know, to be. Get in the shower and not knock one or two or three birds out with one stone. Instead of having a shower, get out, dry off, brush my teeth. I mean, it's just. It's just.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Oh, yeah, everybody. Yeah. So you have. Yeah, I absolutely have on shower shoes. But guys nasty. They be peeing and like, oh, yo, be spitting. All right.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Ah, man. Nah. Everybody.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Everybody wears shower shoes.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Lord have mercy. Ah, I. I see. If I come to Ocho House, I'm gonna have on shower shoes. And in. In the shower. Yeah.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

I would hope so. I have a, I have a pair of shower shoes and I really don't have guests outside of my kids. And even I make my kids wear shower shoes in their own bathrooms.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

No, I don't wear shower shoes in my shower. Cause my thing clean. You, you want the one to pee in the shower? I'mma get out the shower and pee. You peeing? Oh Lord have mercy. Jordan, this man paused. This man. Pee in the shower. Hold on.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

You don't pee in the shower. You gotta get out. Unc, you tripping.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Stay at the hotel. Stay up at the hotel that's close by.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Unc. Who the hell gets out the shower to pee? What are we talking about me. For what chat Y' all get out the shower to pee. I know. And they better not lie. Everybody trying to act all goddamn bougie. The water's already running. What you getting out? Aim down the drain.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm good. Like I say, just let me know. The closest hotel to you. I, I, I'm good.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Ain't ain't no hotels 20 miles.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Ain't no damn hotel no 20 miles.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hey, 20 miles, man, I got my head by myself.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

How you a hotel 20 miles from you?

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Yeah, I mean the nearest hotel is 20 miles from me.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

I'm done with you, man. Everyone deserves to be connected.

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[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

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[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

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[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

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[Bowen Yang]

I'm Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers.

[Bowen Yang]

During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hi, Bo.

[Ocho (likely a nickname for a former athlete or commentator)]

Hi, Matt.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey, Elmo.

[Joe (likely Joe Thomas or Joe from the sports commentary)]

Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

[Matt Rogers]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.