Best of NFL News Part 2: Ernest Jones IV Wants the SMOKE, Maxx Crosby's convo with Tom Brady

Summary

Nightcap (iHeartPodcasts/Shay Shay Media)

Episode: Best of NFL News Part 2: Ernest Jones IV Wants the SMOKE, Maxx Crosby's Convo with Tom Brady
Air Date: February 14, 2026
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe ("Joe/Unc") & Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into some of the top NFL storylines following the 2025-26 season, focusing on blockbuster trade rumors, contract dynamics, coaching changes, and Super Bowl fallout. Highlights include the Maxx Crosby–Las Vegas Raiders standoff, Cowboys’ franchise tag talk, the Seattle Seahawks’ Super Bowl run, and a passionate guest appearance by Ernest Jones IV. As always, Shannon and Ocho bring unfiltered, insightful, and humorous takes on the league’s hottest topics.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maxx Crosby and the Raiders: Irreconcilable Differences (01:50—14:03)

• Reports: Maxx Crosby, star defensive end for the Las Vegas Raiders, has directly communicated to minority owner Tom Brady that he'll “never play for the Raiders again.” An unnamed GM claims Crosby said he’d retire if not traded.
• Ocho’s Take (02:43):
  "There might be some things going on behind the scenes internally that we don't know… to let someone outside that building know… I will never play here again. Especially if those words have been echoed to that of the greatest of all time, Tom Brady."
• Joe/Shannon’s Analysis (03:40):
  • Crosby under contract for multiple years ($160M extension signed March 2025), not a free agent.
  • Unlikely Raiders will “do him a favor” by sending him to a preferred team, especially an AFC rival.
  • Likely destination: NFC, for best trade compensation and minimal direct competition.
  • Both hosts suggest Philly, Chicago, Dallas, Baltimore, Buffalo, and Cincinnati as teams with the potential roster/cap space and quarterback stability Crosby wants.
  • “If I couldn't win with you, then I have no problem winning without you. And I'll get as much as I can.” — Ocho (05:39)
• Final Thought:
  Moving Crosby is a rebuild signal for Las Vegas, expected to seek max draft compensation.

---

2. Cowboys & George Pickens: Franchise Tag Dilemma (16:08–24:00)

• Scenario: The Cowboys plan to franchise tag WR George Pickens for $28M, but long-term fit, compensation, and defensive needs fuel debate.
• Ocho:
  • Sees it as a “gift and a curse” — teams delay long-term deals, “make you bet on yourself.”
  • Argues Cowboys may be better off trading Pickens to address defensive holes:
    "You're scoring 38 points a game… and the other teams going 42… the Elephant in the room is still your defensive needs.” (18:12)
• Joe:
  • Jerry Jones—infamous for loving offense, the “triplets model.”
  • Market realities: Pickens will “want north of $37–38M per year.”
• Memorable Exchange on Player Habits (24:00):
  Joe: "Number ones don't quit on routes. Number ones don't drift… You develop that habit over a period of time, it's hard to just break that." Ocho defends Pickens’ potential, insists everyone makes mistakes, but accepts scrutiny grows in Dallas.

---

3. Super Bowl Reaction & Ernest Jones IV’s Paraded Mic Drop (39:24–43:30)

• Emotional Post-Super Bowl Parade Speech (Ernest Jones IV, Seahawks LB):
  [39:24] "Shout out to these badass motherfuckers who play this game the right way… If you got anything to say about my quarterback, you got anything to say about my defense… I got two words for you!"
• Joe & Ocho’s Reaction:
  • Loved the authenticity, fire, and trash talk as “well-earned.”
  • Praise for how Seattle won: dominant D, special teams, efficient offense.
  • Notable: Jones IV “been through this before” (previous Rams Super Bowl), but doing it as a team leader/with Seattle hits differently.
• Quote (Ocho, 41:20):
  "All the hard work they put in... Any of the naysayers that doubted the Seattle Seahawks… It's okay. You won a Super Bowl… talk a little trash behind it!"

---

4. Exclusive Interview: Ernest Jones IV on “Doing It Twice” (56:05–66:49)

The Mindset of a Champion

• Comparing Super Bowls with Rams vs. Seahawks ([56:45]):
  "I won that one in LA my rookie year… I thought that's what you do every year… It took me three, four years to get back to this point. To do it with this group… it definitely was different because I understand how hard it takes to get back."
• Team Culture & Defensive Mindset ([57:30]):
  "We went into that game like, you know, we weren't going to be denied. And mentality on all sides of the ball was just that..."
• Preparation & Domination ([58:13]):
  “Ain’t no way you give Mike McDonald two weeks… We’d seen it all… When we get in front of you, it’s much different. It's real life at that point.”
• Leadership & Adversity ([61:40]):
  • On the loss of team fathers: “We got a great support system there… made it easier being around the guys, because…it takes a special type of compartmentalization.”

Personal Moments & Humor

• Parade Speech Shirt ([58:57]):
  “Man, I've been saying F you about my quarterback all year, so let me go ahead and get this shirt.”
• Designing the Ring:
  "I'm hoping and praying they let me design this thing…" ([61:29])
• Future Outlook:
  Plans for family vacation, then “back in the lab… do this thing again.” ([60:44])

---

5. Other Notable NFL News & Musings

Raiders Coaching Change (32:32)

• Clint Kubiak (former Seahawks OC) officially hired as Raiders head coach.
• Immediate challenges: fixing QB position (expected to draft Fernando Mendoza), resolving Crosby's future, and offensive weapons.
• Ocho says: "First things first… figure out who the quarterback's gonna be… then you address issues with Mac Crosby… need a big boy [WR]."

The Franchise Tag & Market Realities (Throughout)

• Players want long-term security; “betting on yourself” is risky, but $28M/W1 is high-stakes for Pickens.
• Comparison to Bengals’ WR situations; Jerry Jones’ approach; Emmitt Smith’s public comments.

NFL Business: Adapting and “Winning Offseason” (33:50)

• "It's where you spend the money…"
• Roster construction balance between stars and depth, with references to Seahawks’ recent draft success and strategic FA moves.

Quarterback Discourse: Sam Darnold's Redemption ([43:30–52:53])

• Both hosts caution against overstating Darnold’s career based on one title: context matters.
• Ocho: “Not saying Sam Darnold is better than… those [QBs], but his name comes up in the conversation now.”
• Joe: "Let's look at a total body of work over an extended period of time before we start… just trying to put somebody in that bracket because they won a Super Bowl."

---

Notable Quotes

• Shannon Sharpe/Joe:
  • "If I couldn't win with you, then I have no problem winning without you." (05:39)
  • "Number ones don't quit on routes. Number ones don't drift… it's hard to just break that." (24:00)
  • "The tape don't lie, man. What you put on tape, that's your resume… that's who you are." (51:42)
• Ocho:
  • "The franchise tag, it's, it's a gift and a curse… some owners use the franchise tag as a way to say, ‘I like you, but I don't like you enough… for a long-term deal.’" (16:40)
  • "All the hard work they put in, obviously, reaching the Super Bowl… It's one opportunity… talk a little trash behind it, because now you have that ring." (41:20)
• Ernest Jones IV:
  • "I won that one [Super Bowl] in LA my rookie year… I thought that's what you do every year… With this group, it was different. I understand how hard it takes to get back." (56:45)
  • "We weren't going to be denied… mentality on all sides of the ball was just that. And I think that's what separates the teams that get the job done." (57:30)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Maxx Crosby/Raiders Situation: 01:50–14:03
• Cowboys’ George Pickens Franchise Tag: 16:08–24:00
• Super Bowl Parade/Ernest Jones IV Speech: 39:24–43:30
• Ernest Jones IV Interview: 56:05–66:49

---

Episode Tone & Style

• Language/Tone: Bold, candid, often playful banter between hosts and guests. While deeply knowledgeable, the delivery is accessible, humorous, and authentic—particularly during debates or when recounting personal experiences.

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Final Takeaways

• NFL’s ongoing drama is player-driven: Players leveraging their power (Crosby, Pickens), teams balancing cap/needs, all playing out against a backdrop of massive fan and media attention.
• Winning changes everything: Whether it’s Sam Darnold’s narrative arc or the Seahawks’ championship, the glow and glare of victory reshape player legacies and front office priorities overnight.
• The human side matters: Both in discussing personal loss (Ernest Jones IV, support systems) and the toll on and off the field, Nightcap stays true to keeping the players’ humanity at the center.

---

For listeners who missed it, this jam-packed episode brings the NFL’s post-season intrigue to life with wit, candor, and plenty of inside perspective.

Transcript

[Bowen Yang]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures I'm Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm Matt Rogers.

[Joe]

During this season of the Two Five.

[Bowen Yang]

Rings podcast in the lead up to.

[Joe]

The Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi Bowen. Hi Matt.

[Ocho]

Hey Elmo.

[Joe]

Hey Matt. Hey Bowen. Hi Cookie. Hi.

[Bowen Yang]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway.

[Joe]

And we are in Italy to give.

[Bowen Yang]

You experiences from our hearts to your ears.

[Joe]

Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever.

[Ocho]

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[Joe]

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[Ocho]

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[Joe]

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[Ocho]

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[Joe]

Relax, you're on a roll Let her rip Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth Tear has the same softness you love now with weighty edges that tear better than the leading one Ply brand Enjoy the Go with Charmin. Last week, Jay Glazer made it clear that Max Crosby is done with the Raiders. Now Jason Lake and four reports that an unnamed general manager claims that Crosby has directly communicated his wishes to minority owner Tom Brady. He told Tom Brady he will never play for the Raiders again. The unnamed GM said that's a fact. He told him he'll retire before he ever plays for them again, but I'm not sure they're actually going to trade him. Miles Garrett said the same thing last year and we know how that ended up. Ocho, how do you see this situation unfolding?

[Ocho]

Oh, man. Understanding, understanding what Matt Crosby means to the Las Vegas Raiders. I'm not sure if things can be rectified at this point. No. Most of the time when the players get to this point like this, where he feels I really can't do it anymore, there might be some things going on behind the scenes internally that we don't know. It's space for Mack Crosby to get to the point to where he is now, to even let someone outside that building know that I will never play here again. Especially if those words have been echoed to that of the greatest of all time, Tom Brady. He's not. He's not really playing. Especially someone like Mac Crosby who wants an opportunity to win and understanding that being at Los at the Las Vegas Raiders, he's not going to have an opportunity to win. Hoping for a move similar to that of Dexter Lawrence in general, where he can go to a contender and hope that things turn out or pan out the way they should, where he can contribute on on his side of the on defense, he can be an asset to so many different teams that are a piece or two away from actually contending and have a chance of reaching that end goal out there in.

[Joe]

Well, the difference is that that D Law was a unrestricted free agent so he chose where he wanted to go. Max Crosby unfortunately is under contract for another three year, three, four years. I'm not sure how long, how, how long Chad's contract is is. Is for but he's not in that situation and so probably we're going to want to get him out if, if they are too trading the conversations that they're having. Ocho is that we want to get him out of the AFC and we want to get the most bang for our buck. Now who's going to give us the most compensation? Now I understand that sometimes when you have a relationship, a good relationship with a team, they'll work to send you to a place maybe to your heart desire but I'm not so sure that's going to be the case when this situation he's one of your better players. He's if you know I work with Jason at CBS also he's made if that's true and Jay Glazer came on our show last year and said last week and said Max was done with the Raiders. Yeah. Two guys I know pretty well, I know Jason a little better because I worked with him for a number of years. If that's the case, the likelihood of them working with him, to send them to his ideal setting, probably not going to happen, Ocho. But I do see a scenario. If they're going to trade him, they're going to put him in the nfc because I ain't really trying to see this man in the afc and I damn sure not going to trade him within my division. That's. That's an absolute. No, no.

[Matt Rogers]

Right.

[Joe]

Even though some teams, you know, Kansas City would be more than glad to trade compensation to get him. But I don't see that happening. With that being said, Ocho, because he doesn't have. He's not unrestricted and he doesn't have a choice in the matter of where he goes. It's just hard. He has, he signed a three year, 160 million dollar contract extension in March of 25th. So he got some years on that contract, Ocho. So I don't.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I mean he does, but you have, you have to understand his value. You have to understand his value. Especially with Kubia coming over, understanding that there are so many pieces, so many missing holes, so many questions that need answers on that Las Vegas Raiders team that I don't think he will have a problem understanding the value that is Mac Crosby and allowing him to go elsewhere, even if it's to an AFC team. What pieces can I get for someone who is as valuable as him at the position and being able to continue to build for the future? If I couldn't win with you, then I have no problem winning without you. And I'll get as much as I can.

[Joe]

I'll lose with you. I can lose without you. I get what, I get what you're saying, but I think the thing is normally, yeah, teams that are most equipped to give up the most are teams, you know, and, and he doesn't want to go from a losing team to a losing situation. But I believe the Philadelphia Eagles will have something on the table. The Chicago Bears will put something on the table. I don't know if I don't know considering that they just gave Aiden Hutchinson that deal Jack Campbell's got. I don't know if they got Jack Campbell done this off last off season or they're going to get him done this off season that, you know, they got money tied up in Joseph. So they got. And you know, oh, Jir Gibbs is due a contract. Oh, yeah. Oh, Absolutely. You took care of Pan, you took care of Jerry Goff, you took care of J, you took care of J. So, yeah, but I think me, I think the Bears, I think Philly would have no problem giving up a first and a third and maybe a third next year because he's that good. He's a, he's a, he's a game altering player and they don't come around very often. And I promise you, there's no one in the draft that's as good as Matt Crosby. And I don't know who they have, I don't know how high who's rated where on the defensive side of football, but I guarantee you there's not a guy coming out in the draft that's better than Max Crosby will be next year in 26.

[Ocho]

Not, not even close coming out of the draft. I mean, please, I mean no disrespect to those coming out of the draft, but there was nothing like Matt Crosby, based on the resume that he proven, you know, done, done so far in la. Can you imagine Matt Crosby with a star on his helmet? Oh, my God. Can you imagine Max Crosby with a star on his helmet?

[Joe]

No, I mean, with him. I mean, come on, man, he's a game changer. I mean, he changes. He, he's gonna alter wherever defense he goes. And the more talent you have around him, the better he's gonna be. You put him in Philly.

[Ocho]

Yep.

[Joe]

You put him in, in Chicago or you put him on the Dallas the rave. Could the Ravens put a package together or not?

[Ocho]

Now we talking because.

[Joe]

They need a game changer and they haven't had a game changer in a while.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, I know you haven't said it, and one thing we haven't had either over there in the 513, over there in Cincinnati, right across, right on the river, we haven't had a game changer. Do I see them having the money to be able to, to take care of Matt Crosby? Understanding how much we need on the defensive end as well. We need some pieces at one level. I mean, either we're going to get one at the first level or the third level, maybe at the second level and the first level. We need, we need to impact players that can make a difference over there on our team as well. Now that the season is done. You can and you can. You kind of look at each team and you can see what teams need, you know, going forward, especially those that already have a quarterback in place, to actually give you a chance. Most of the time, those answers are going to be impact players on defense, mostly the offensive line. If you already have a quarterback or impact receiver.

[Joe]

Yeah, Buffalo. Can Buffalo put a package together that's fair because I think the thing Ocho at the end of the day he wants to win. So who's close to winning? Who has a quarterback? The situation at quarterback is stable enough that's conducive to give him a chance to win 27, 26, 27, 28 until his contract's up. You look at Philly, obviously they just won the super bowl last year, so they're equipped. You look at, you look at Chicago got to the division around this. They're young, up and coming team. I think they're a piece of weight defensively. You mentioned the Cowboys Buffalo quarterback situation, Cincinnati quarterback situation, Baltimore quarterback situation. So I think there are some places that, that have a quarterback in place, have a team that he's going to instantaneously make that, make that defense better. So just imagine what a team can play with a lead. So that's what was so impressive about Miles Garrett. There are very few times that his team had to lead. He got 23 sacks and 85% of the time they were down and he put them numbers like that. They're losing by double digits and he's still getting three, four, five sacks in a game. So imagine if they got a situation, they're in a situation where they play with a lead and he can just go hunt the quarterback.

[Ocho]

Just go, yeah, that'd be definitely.

[Joe]

Max Crosby is going to make some if they trade him. And we're speaking hypothetically because we've heard two insiders say that Max Crosby is not going to be playing for the Ravens. We hear Jason Lucken for saying that he's talked to a general manager and that he's relayed this message to minority owner Tom Brady that I'm done with y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Joe]

He didn't take Kylie to be in benchy like I've been playing with this banging up knee all year. Now all of a sudden, yeah, y' all want me to sit out? Yeah, don't worry about from y' all for the next 10 years.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I, I can think of something too. And obviously them continue them benching him might be a sign. It might be a sign to him. Listen, we don't want you to get hurt. We want you to want you to sit down. We want you to heal up to make sure that trade value. We're going to give you what you want. You requested it. We, we going to give you what you want, Want you to stay out. I don't want you get. We don't want you get yourself hurt because we want to get as much as we can back for you.

[Joe]

All right, Jacksonville, don't.

[Ocho]

Don't worry about it. Yeah. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Especially with the way they playing now. They get that Ferrari coming out the garage after being down for a little bit with Trevor Lawrence playing really, really good, really good football right now. I like that. I like that. Especially on that defense. That's a good one.

[Joe]

And so he's going to be looking to go, like I said, he's probably going to go to one of the teams that we mentioned. The question is who just going to give us the most compensation because that's what they need. They need, they need draft picks, they need draft capital. They need to build this team. You look at Seattle, how they built their team. A lot of, a lot of drafted players. Yeah, you got to go get a Leonard Williams. Yeah. You gotta get a D Law to come over free agency. But you drafted Spoon, you drafted Woland. Yeah. Julian Love came over. In free agent, free agency, you get, you get lucky. You got really, really lucky with Sam Darnold because normally guys that win 14 games, the other team is not letting them go. It's just not. Yeah, you drafted a jsn. You look at the offensive line that they have. They drafted a K9. So sometimes you got to be a little lucky. But I think the thing is that there are seven or eight teams out there that does have the draft capital to, I think to appease the Raiders, and I think it appease Max Crosby as well, because, I mean, selfishness of me. I do like when, when great players get an opportunity to compete and see themselves, see them on the highest level, just like basketball players. I mean, you want to see a LeBron, you want to see Katie, you want to see Steph compete on the highest levels, not be mired in mediocrity. So.

[Ocho]

Or, or, or being too loyal to stay at one place for a very long time.

[Joe]

Well, that was Kevin Garnett. He was loyal to the soul until he realized that, man, I ain't winning nothing. Dame. I think that happened to Dame.

[Ocho]

Dame. Yeah, yeah. And staying in Portland, you know, a little too long.

[Joe]

So I think the Raiders, look, they got the number one pick in the draft, though. Joe. Many believe they're going to go for a quarterback. They believe it's going to be Mendoza. It's hard to argue that, like, I said what they're not a handful of but a handful of quarterbacks. That's you know, I think that are game changers. But we'll see.

[Bowen Yang]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures with CarGurus Discover, you can skip the filters and.

[Joe]

Describe what you're looking for in your own words. Simply type what you want and Cargurus Discover instantly surfaces real listings that match your exact needs. It's no wonder under Cargurus is the number one most visited car shopping site according to similar web's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with [e-mail] Go to CarGurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A R G u r u s.com cargurus.com I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi Bowen. Hi Matt.

[Ocho]

Hey Elmo.

[Joe]

Hey Matt. Hey Bowen. Hi Cookie. Hi.

[Bowen Yang]

Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway.

[Joe]

And we are in Italy to give.

[Bowen Yang]

You experiences from our hearts to your ears.

[Joe]

Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever.

[Ocho]

You get your podcasts.

[Joe]

Right. The Cowboys are expected to apply the franchise tag to George Pickens. The projected cost of a one year fully guaranteed franchise tag. Ocho will be $28 million. Does this make you think George Pickens will be in Dallas next year?

[Ocho]

Oh, I mean, you know, I don't like it.

[Joe]

You know how I feel, Chad, about the franchise tag? I do.

[Ocho]

The franchise tag, it's, it's a gift and a curse. Now, the get the gift side is the franchise tags. It allows teams, allows owners to try to find a way to get a long term deal done. Some owners use the franchise tag as a way to say, listen, I like you, but I don't like you enough or trust you to give you the kind of money I want to or that you deserve long term. So we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna make you bet on yourself. We're gonna make you better yourself and see if you can do it another year. Yeah, for another year. But when I look at George Pickinson and having his best season statistically with the Cowboys, if you were to probably ask him, he would love to stay. I think what he has, that, what he has going on with CD there and having Dak is a great thing. It's a great thing. But you look at, you look at the team in general collectively as a whole, it'd be somewhat almost like the Bengals. You know, you have two great number ones, right? Offensive, you have a great quarterback, but you ain't got nothing on defense at any level. You know, I mean, if, if you're thinking, I know Cowboys fans, if you're in here, listen to me, like, just, just stay with me real quick. If, if, if you were to let CD I mean, let's CD Let, let George Pickens go, you know, and allow him to go somewhere else and allow him to flourish. Allow him to have his own team and, and be able to use that.

[Joe]

Money because they gave a draft compensation to get it. So you'd be foolish to let him go without trying to get draft compensation for it.

[Ocho]

Okay, let's get draft, draft compensation for him. Let's trade him.

[Joe]

I don't think that happened.

[Ocho]

Let's get some pieces. Listen to me, let's get some pieces on what we need defensively because you got CD Lamb, you get your number two. You don't, you don't, you know, you get a nice number two where you can still move the ball efficiently offensively and get what you need on defense as opposed to, you got George Pickens, phenomenal player, you got CD Lamb, phenomenal player, and he ain't got nothing, no defense. So you're scoring 38 points a game and other teams going 42 or you're scoring 20, 21, another team scoring 28. So the Elephant in the room is still your defensive needs that need to be met over in Dallas.

[Joe]

They're looking at it like, okay, look, Dak is going to be about 78, $80 million. We restructured that. Get a long term deal, give him a big signing bonus, we can get Dak down, we restructure CD Lamb, get him under control. What do we do with Terrence Steele? Do we keep him, restructure his deal or do we outright release him? So, and plus, they feel like they got, they got a first round pick because of the Michael situation. So they got extra compensation that they feel they can go and, and could will and deal and bring somebody. You know, you hear people talking about Max Crosby might be available. You, you and the guys at Cincinnati, Jeffrey Simmons. If one or both of those guys come available. If you're the Cowboy, you got to try to move heaven and earth to try to get them. But the problem is, is that the Cowboys have a log jam at dt. They got Kenny Clark, they got Odiggy Zua, they got the guy to get, just got from the Jets, Quinn it. So you got, you got 3D tackles already. So somebody gonna be the odd man out, preferably you go get Max. If Max, if you can get Max Crosby for a first and a third, you do it. Obviously, I don't see, I don't see Miles Garrett going anywhere. And what they're going to ask for you to get him, you're not going to get, you don't want to give that up. He probably, they don't want Ocho. He's just an anonymous defensive player of the year and he's not even 30.

[Ocho]

That's crazy.

[Joe]

So they're going to want three, they're going to want two, three first round picks. And he's really the draw. He's really the draw. And it's rare that you have a defensive player that's the draw. But currently, because they're kind of devoid of offensive players, he's the draw. He is. He's the best defensive player in football. And I'm, I don't think the Browns will trade him. I don't.

[Ocho]

You never know. It's a funny business, huh? Crazier. Crazier things have happened.

[Joe]

I believe if they were going to trade him to traded him last year, trade him after he won the second defensive player of the year and he won it unanimous after breaking the sack record, that would be strange.

[Ocho]

I mean, well, you only won four games with everything you just said, you trying to win or not.

[Joe]

There? I, I believe they're trying to win, Ocho. I do. But I just don't believe they're gonna trade. I don't believe they're gonna trade Mile Garrett in order to help them to speed that process up. But I've always felt this concerning the way George Pickens was playing, that there was a great chance that they were going to probably franchise and try to get something done long term. He's going on big money. He's gonna want, he's gonna want cd. He's gonna want more than north of cd, because CD signed that leers two years ago. And in order for you to keep elevating the salaries. Ocho, I can't. Well, well, CD's the number one. And CD, I get it. I'm happy for CD. But I'm just basing on what I did last year, right. And my numbers exceeded his. And I think Big is younger than cd.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. He gonna want, he gonna, he gonna, he gonna want, he gonna want north of, he gonna want north of that. He gonna want 37, 38 million dollars, Ocho to stay.

[Ocho]

Yeah. I mean, I don't.

[Joe]

Anyway, okay. He worth it. He's earned it.

[Ocho]

Yeah. I, I, I, I speak for the player in general. I'm not, I'm not. I speak for the player in general. And in, in wanting him to get all he can. That, that's all. And a lot of people, you know, upset at me, especially Cowboys fans. Oh, you didn't say that. When it came to T and Chase and T. T. Higgins and Chase wasn't in a situation like Pick. You know, he wasn't going from one team to another. You know, he, I think he is in a great situation understanding the game that Jerry. Jerry plays when it comes time to playing players. And I mean, this is a unique, A unique situation, though. It's a unique situation. I just hope Jerry gets this one right this time, you know, for the sake of that fan base and in the sake of that team offensively. But there's so many, so many, so many questions that need answered defensively, they do.

[Joe]

But, you know, Jerry, like, love offense, the triplets. I mean, he remember Emmett and Troy and Michael, and, you know, he figured he has that with Javante Dak and, and he has two. And you heard Emmett. Emmett was talking about it. You know, Alvin Harper thought he was the number one until he went to another team and was asked to do number One things, and.

[Ocho]

It'S a little.

[Joe]

Different, but it would also say something that I've been saying. She. Chase was upset at me. I was like, hey, yeah, I'm not saying that he's number one, but number ones don't quit on routes. Number ones don't. Don't. Don't drift. Yeah, and that's. And that's the. It's hard, Ocho, when you've done that a lot in your career, it's hard to break that. People think you just break a habit. Like, people that's been smoking how many times. Ocho is like, okay, I'm just gonna start. I ain't smoking no more cigarettes or I'm gonna stop drinking. I ain't gonna drink no more. I'm gonna stop. When you. You develop that habit over a period of time, it's hard to just break it because you're like, here we go again. And you start drifting. You start, baby. Right? Oh, boy. And it's hard to break, but I ain't got no problem. Look, he's go. He's gonna want his money, and he doesn't want to play another year. I've already proven what I could do now. Compensate me. He's gonna want maximum compensation, and I can't say that I disagree with him. Yeah, and it's gonna be. It's gonna. Look, he has a mulaguetta as a. As his agent.

[Ocho]

I talked. I talked to him at the flag game.

[Joe]

Who pick a mula gutta. Okay. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Just say hello. Just introduce myself, that's all.

[Joe]

What you didn't introduce yourself for? He negotiate your contract?

[Ocho]

I just want to introduce myself, you know? Hey, how you doing? How you doing, Dave? You know my mocho? That's it. You know, I ain't getting nothing else like that. That was it.

[Joe]

Oh, so when it come out, you have some news to share, huh?

[Ocho]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We. We stuck. We stuck. We didn't even talk football.

[Joe]

Oh, you didn't think he knew who you was, huh?

[Ocho]

I. I do that regardless to everybody, you know, that I. That I don't know.

[Joe]

Well, how'd you know who it was? You going up to him how you didn't know who he was then?

[Ocho]

My. My agent that was with me told me. Oh, yeah?

[Joe]

You know who that was? Stop it.

[Ocho]

I'm supposed to know. I don't play no more. I don't know everybody by face, you know? David not a player. Yes. People who represent them know. Yeah, it was cool, though. Took a picture with his son but pink look.

[Joe]

And people look at it with 28B. Yeah, 28 million is a nice chunk of change.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Not, not for.

[Joe]

But I want, but I want long term security. Yeah, I want, I want 35, 40 million over five years. I need to get about 85, 90 million at the time of signing. That'll make me very happy.

[Ocho]

Yeah, very.

[Joe]

That'll make me very happy. Well, that's where. That's Dave's job. Dave job is to get, get maximum value pick. You've done what you're supposed to do now this off season, no speeding tickets, no trouble, keep your nose clean and phrase what friends. You start what, second week of, first week of March because you can have, you know, you can have your tampering period and then you have the next week Ocho, you have the, the signing. So. It'll be, it's gonna be very, very interesting to see how this thing shapes up. I know he's not gonna be pleased if he, if he gets franchised. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Joe]

Oh, Joe, what do you think about what Emma had to say at the radio roll about Pick? You're like, he thought that picked the perfect place for him. The Batman and Robin, 1A, 1B, whatever you want to call them. He said, right. And you said, well, picks the number one. He said, are we sure? Because he had a lot of concerns that I've had and you know, mainly effort. I know when he, when he get to cooking.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Oh, he burned. He burned white hot.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Listen, pick is the number one. If you watch football, you know what he can do, you understand? He's one that can elevate offense when used correctly. When put in positions to make the plays, you know what he can do on short routes, you know what he can do on intermediate routes. We know what he can do on deep balls. Obviously you put him in a situation or on a team that has an adequate quarterback, which he didn't have in Pittsburgh, you understand what Kipigans is capable of doing. You know, I understood what Emmett is saying, but it's. He's going to say all the right things in favor of his Cowboys, but he's going to.

[Joe]

But I think the thing is, Ocho, is that you don't get put in position to make plays. Chase is not in position to make plays. Every single play. Sometimes the play is fatigue. And he said that. You said, well, when he's in position. Yes, but when you're not in position, you can't take that time off. That's the problem far too many times for your Coach to come out and say what he said Thanksgiving when you played Detroit. That's not. We should not have that discussion about a George Pickens.

[Ocho]

So I have. Can I ask him, are we going to keep using that same thing every single time?

[Joe]

Did he do it? Are you going to keep doing it every single time? Hold on.

[Ocho]

Are we going to keep weaponizing that one situation? So if it's a problem with that, why want to keep him there? Don't keep him there if it's a problem.

[Joe]

Ocho. See, you said it was going to be a problem. That's what you told this entire chat. It wasn't going to be a problem. Did he do that?

[Ocho]

He had. He had multiple issues.

[Joe]

Did he have Ocho? You do real Ocho. You do realize if you run. If you run a file with the law and they say you could have no more slip ups. If you have a slip up, what can you say? Well, I only had one. I know I had five previously, but I only had one this time. So you do know the job is not to have a slip up, right?

[Ocho]

Yeah, I mean we have, we all have flip ups even. Even if we don't want you.

[Joe]

But I'm saying is that situation, it was so obvious. You saw him have going through routes and getting plays picked. You watched it. Everybody watched. Was trending. A guy like George Pickens shouldn't have that. He's too good of a talent.

[Ocho]

Great.

[Joe]

He's too good of a talent to have that.

[Ocho]

Oh.

[Joe]

What the hell happened to you?

[Ocho]

That goddamn coke that went down the wrong pipe.

[Joe]

That would you get for yelling?

[Ocho]

Nah, my bad, my bad.

[Joe]

No, I just think the thing is, look, he's too good of a talent. And to have that, we shouldn't. Coach didn't have to talk to him about effort. Not at this juncture of his career. When you were young in Pittsburgh. I'm gonna leave all that baggage in Pittsburgh. Oh, Joe. Only thing George picking should have brought out of Pittsburgh was. Was himself. I' ma leave everything back in Pittsburgh. I don't want no clothes from Pittsburgh. I want. I'm gonna sell my car. I'm gonna sell all the furniture in my apartment. I'm saying I ain't bringing nothing but my black ass out of Pittsburgh.

[Ocho]

Clean slate.

[Joe]

Clean slate. I'm starting from scratch. Oh, so you know how that is. Yeah.

[Ocho]

And you know, everything is magnified too because now you got the star on your helmet.

[Joe]

Thank you.

[Ocho]

You got the stone here. Everything, everything is magnified because there are.

[Joe]

Some games Pittsburgh don't get Televised in Dallas and then you playing on Thanksgiving. Yeah, now, you know, everybody play on Thanksgiving. We. We gonna see everything. But I want him to get. I want him to get his money.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he had. He had a little slip up. He had a little slip up. But outside of that, boy, he's the real deal.

[Joe]

No questions. After helping the Seattle Seahawks win Super Bowl 60, offensive coordinator click, Kubiak confirmed he will be the Las Vegas Raiders next head coach. You guys know I'm going to Las Vegas. I'm fired up about that. How big of a get is this for the Raiders?

[Ocho]

It's a good thing for the Raiders. Obviously. The first thing. First things first, though. Mr. Kubiak has to figure out who the quarterback's gonna be. Obviously, common sense, with the draft stuff going up, Fernando Mendoza is probably going to be the first. First quarterback taken, first player taken. So I'm assuming he's going to be the quarterback of the Las Vegas Raiders. So outside of that, then you address issues with Mac Crosby. Is Mac Crosby happy or is he looking for a move? Other pieces need to be added to that puzzle. Along with Ashton Genti, I think another big receiver over, over in Oakland is needed. Obviously, I don't know the team know that.

[Joe]

Well, they got Brock Bowers.

[Ocho]

Yeah, Brock Bowers, obviously.

[Joe]

I agree with you. They do need a number one. They do need a receiver. Go ahead.

[Ocho]

They need a big boy. Someone. Someone that can, that can move the needle. That doesn't need much help from the officer coordinator. Let's get out there and just get it done like a Brock Bowers can at his position. Defensively, I'm sure there's some, some, some questions that need answers a lot.

[Joe]

Defensively, they need a lot of Joe secondary. I don't know if Devin White's gonna be back. You got Max Cross, but he can't do. He can't do everything on his own. You can. They got cap space, but it ain't how much money you spend on your. It's where you spend the money at.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Sometimes you might be able to find a bargain because, you know, a lot of times teams try to win the off season. Oh, they spent the most money. They got the flashes. No, I need to know the guys that I'm getting fit to scheme. Understand what it is to be a Raider. Nice. Lost some of his luster, obviously. Gone through head coaches and, and, and quarterbacks and. But they got to get this thing figured out. How big of a loss is this for the Seahawks, Ocho? Oh, you know what? It's Big players.

[Ocho]

It's big. It is big. But players make coach's job easy when you have the personnel. So I think whoever comes back in in place of Mr. Kubiak will still have the same personnel that he just left.

[Joe]

Did they have the same personnel in Detroit when Ben Johnson left? How was that offensive? Yeah. Take your time.

[Ocho]

It was good except for the injury bug. Defensively, it haunted.

[Joe]

So you said Detroit looked the same offensively as they did when they had Ben Johnson?

[Ocho]

No, I said it was good until the injury bug haunted them.

[Joe]

It didn't hunt them. Offensively, they was injured last year. They was injured last year defensively too. Two years ago defensively, when they lost to Washington. They was beat up defensively. But how did they look offensively?

[Ocho]

They look good offensively until the injury bug caught him towards the end of the season.

[Joe]

Caught him on what side of the ball? Offensively, who got injured? I forgot was there. J. Mo was there. Gibbs was there. Montgomery was there. I'm trying to pick.

[Ocho]

You do realize.

[Joe]

Hold on.

[Ocho]

You do realize their offense was. Was rolling all season long until to. And except the last five weeks of the season.

[Joe]

Let me see. I. I'll get back to you. Yeah, because, you know, the thing is.

[Ocho]

Check that out.

[Joe]

Bear with me. Chat.

[Ocho]

I know about my Lions now.

[Joe]

2025 season. They were fifth in total yards, fourth in points, third down conversion. 44th. See?

[Ocho]

Keep going.

[Joe]

Hold on. Let me close the suitcase, huh? Go ahead. 20 24. There was four. Second in total yards, first in points, third in passing yards, seventh and rushing yards. First and third down conversion. They were over to overcome some of that because the defense been bad for a minute.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

With the injuries.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Taren Arnold got hurt. What's the other guy? What's the other DB O.

[Matt Rogers]

Branch.

[Joe]

Who? Brian Branch got injured.

[Ocho]

Brian Branch? Yeah.

[Joe]

I think Arnold. I think the other one. The other in another corner from Alabama.

[Ocho]

I mean.

[Joe]

Yeah, he got injured. Joseph got injured.

[Ocho]

The middle linebacker. I can't remember his name.

[Joe]

He came. Jack Campbell was back. Yeah, okay, Campbell was there. But the thing. Ocho. Remember. Hold on. Plus, you got to remember they demoted the offensive coordinator and what you call them. Started calling plays and then they end up firing him and got a new coordinator in. It's all. It always takes you a little time to. To get the. To get the. To get into a groove of how he likes to call plays. I thought Clint Kubiak. Like I said, I've known Clint Kubiak. He was. If dad bring him into practice, he could have been no more than about 8, 7, 8, right? And to see him. And to see, you know, to see him be a head coach now, Ocho, I'm like, that's dope.

[Matt Rogers]

Damn.

[Ocho]

Everything. Everything come full circle.

[Joe]

Same thing with Christian McCaffrey. To see him and to see former teammates, you know, hold. I was like, damn. The Seattle Seahawks had their parade today. Let's check. Let's take a listen to our friend Ernest Jones iv.

[Matt Rogers]

I'm gonna keep it a buck. I'm probably the last person they should have gave the mic to, but we finna turn up, man. First off, I want to say shout out to Jody Allen. Shout out to John Snyder for making this all possible, man. Shout out to coach Mike McDonald for helping us get to this point, man. But also shout out to these badass motherfuckers who play this game the right way. Hey.

[Joe]

Not only do we have the.

[Matt Rogers]

Best defense in the world, we got.

[Joe]

The best team in the world.

[Matt Rogers]

And quite frankly, if you got anything to say about my quarterback, you got anything to say about my defense, you got anything to say about online, and.

[Joe]

You got anything to say about the.

[Matt Rogers]

City of Seattle, I got two words for you.

[Joe]

You damn. Well, he told you as soon as he got the mic, he's probably the last person you should have given the mic. And he did not disappoint. The adulation, the excitement. I mean, you know, they brought a world championship, and they did it in dominating fashion. That defense was sensational throughout the playoffs. Yeah, they bend a little bit against the. The Rams guys. You know, Matthew Stafford had a night of nights, but Matthew Stafford won the MVP for a reason, so we can expect them to have those type of nights. But in the super bowl, that defense was dominating. Ocho, do you like. Do you like what Ernest Jones the Fourth had to say?

[Ocho]

I mean, hey, listen, I absolutely love it. You know, all the hard work they put in, obviously, reaching the super bowl, all the talk about Sam Donald and the stuff that, you know, they had to say. Any. Any of the naysayers that. That doubted the Seattle Seahawks. It's okay. You won a Super Bowl. It's one opportunity. You have a chance to celebrate and talk a little trash behind it, because now you have that ring, you have that trophy, so why not? It doesn't happen often, and there's no. There's no guarantee that you get back there. So I'm. I'm all for it. I'm all for it, Joe.

[Joe]

Hey, yeah, I'm. I'm.

[Matt Rogers]

I'm.

[Joe]

I'm with. Ooh. You know, you. You you reach the top. I mean, we play this game obviously to compete, but you know, we also want to win championships as well. He got his opportunity to shine. Hey, let him get it off his chest, man. Let him know how you feel, baby. Yeah, John Snyder. It might be like, oh, maybe, maybe a little less, but I get it. But like I said, Ocho is so much excitement and he's been through this before. He won it with the Rams. And so, you know, Harry is. He changed teams in the division, got traded to Tennessee, Tennessee trades him to the, to the Seahawks. And yeah, he's one of those guys that led, spearheaded that defense, but this was a total team effort. You look at the special teams, look at the kicker. 5 field, 17 points, 5 field goals, 2 pats, look at the punter, how many times he kept him pinned down.

[Ocho]

Pinned back in the back.

[Joe]

Rasheed Shahid did not have a big return game, but guess what he didn't do. Ocho put the ball in the dirt. So when they say total team victory, that's what it was. They ran the ball well. They threw the ball effectively. Sam Darnold didn't put the ball in harm's way that, that first or third down play. I thought Jones got a great jump, but he wrong handed. Probably should have did this instead of that because you get more extension like this than you can like this. But all that being said, I thought as a team aspect, special teams, defense and offense, I thought they played a complete game. Obviously the offense wasn't as dominating as it was against San Francisco, but man, that's, that's an unbelievable feeling. And for a lot of those guys, look at the shirt he got. Sam Donald with a cigar cigarette in his mouth, flipping people off. But that's what you have. You wanna, and we're going to talk about this.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You see what, how God support you when you are a good teammate. Man, you heard what he said when they lost to the Ram. And he said, look, if y' all don't rock with a quarterback. He said, the reason why we in damn near every game is because of the quarterback. And now he has a mishap. He doesn't play as well as we're used to seeing. Now y' all want to beat him up. F y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Joe]

He said that way back when. Now Sam, Donna's like, okay, now look at me, I only. Top of the mountain. I made the top of the mouth. Yeah, pretty. A lot of teams gave up on me. But he said something. Sam Donald said something very interesting. He said, I appreciate you guys believing in me because Ocho, you remember the last game of the season and then the, and then the playoffs, he didn't look good. And maybe that scared Minnesota off. That didn't scare us, that didn't scare Seattle off because John Snyder and, and, and, and McDonald felt like, you know, what with the, what we have assembled here. Yeah, we get a quarterback, we can win. We can go far. We can go really, really far. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Ocho]

No, I was going to say what Minnesota saw, it shouldn't have scared him off. It shouldn't have scared him off. I mean, it's ridiculous because now look where they are again. I'll say it again. Minnesota is in quarterback purgatory because you don't know what you, where you're going to go or what are you going to do from now on. Okay, maybe Jay Z. McCarthy comes back and he any, any somewhat half of what Sam Donald was before he left Minnesota. But as of right now, everything is up in the air. Maybe Kirk Cousin come, come back and save you if JJ McCarthy doesn't play up the par and that offense stalls at, at the way it is. But Sam Donald un. In, in in certain conversations now because he's won a Super bowl trophy, he going to go into the conversations with some of the quarterbacks that we talk about all the time that haven't won one.

[Joe]

Correct.

[Ocho]

Some of the greats. I'm not, I'm not saying he's one of the best in the game, but he has that ring. So therefore that catapults him in the conversation of the Lamar Jackson, the Joe Burrows, the Josh Allens and the Patrick Mahomes.

[Joe]

Yeah. But it also goes to show you situations, sometimes being in the right situation at the right time. I'm not one of those guys o Joe. And I've never been one of those guys. And Joe, let me know what you think, because a lot of times what people try to do, you win a Super bowl and then they say, well, you better than that guy. Brad Johnson won a Super bowl and they never said he was a top 10 quarterback. Trent Dilford won a Super bowl and they never said he was a top 10 quarterback. Guys win championships and they never say they're top 10 NBA players. So we got to be careful. Let's look at a total body of work over an extended period of time before we start arbitrarily just trying to put somebody in that bracket because they want to sue. But go ahead, take off, Ocho.

[Ocho]

And one thing, Joe, one thing I do want to say I want to clarify that, too. Now, if. If you. If you take a. Let's say you take. You talk about the quarterbacks, right? I'm not saying Sam Donald is better than those. Those top three of those top four, top five. I'm just saying the fact that his name is in the conversations because he's won a Super Bowl. But if you're picking a. If you're taking a choice and you were starting a team, you had Sam Donald, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. I'm sure everybody.

[Joe]

Sam Darling for any of those guys.

[Ocho]

Exactly. So I'm not saying that. I'm just saying his name needs to come and come up in the conversations going into next year when we talk about some of the better quarterbacks in the NFL.

[Joe]

And I think it will. I think it will. Joe, what do you think about that? Because we've seen that in the NBA, guys win a championship, and the first thing they say, well, he's better than this guy that's never won a championship. No, that is a team victory. We can say for a moment he had an unbelievable. But I'm not one of these guys because you won a championship. Now all of a sudden I'm thinking you're a pantheon. Great. Yeah. It's like we're prisoners of the moment, Ojo. You know, it's what's going on right now. Right now in time, is what we stuck on. So Seahawks won the Super Bowl, Sam Donald got a ring, and now that's all everybody's talking about. You know what I mean? Yeah, but, yeah, I'm with you. It's like you got to give it an extended period of time, and then you can really gauge on how great a person is. You know what I mean? We all can have one great year. You know what I mean? Two. Two pretty good years. But let's see if he can sustain and. And put together, you know, a few. A few great years like that. That's what, you know, enhances your greatness. And I think the thing is, is quarterback is the only position we do that with. Because a DB wins a Super bowl, ain't nobody saying, well, he's better than this or he's better than that. A defensive lineman win the Super Bowl. A linebacker wins the Super Bowl. That's not what we do. Now, if they're. If they're already on the cusp of now, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, now they were to win a Super bowl. Now we're going to really have a. Have to have a Really a real, real, real discussion because now you're talking about Lamar, that's one of the mvp, two of them, Josh Allen, that's one of the mvp. And now you talking about we're going to attach a Super bowl to it and a whole lot of guys that can say that. So with that being said, I, I just, I, I just like to be patient when we start throwing things around. And Sam Donald had an unbelievable season. We are not trying to take that away. But we need to be careful because I'm not, I'm sure nobody is saying give me Brad Johnson over Dan Marino, give me Trent Dear for over Dan Marino, give me some of these other quarterbacks that's won a Super bowl over Dan Marino. So let's, let's just be careful. He should enjoy this. They should redo his contract. They should redo his contract. What he signed for, he signed three years, like 100, 105 million. But he made four, $4 million incentives. A million dollars for the Super Bowl, 500,000 AFC championship, NFC championship, 500,000 for the divisional, 500,000 for, you know, making the Pro bowl of things. So he made $4 million just in incentives. Hey, so listen, when, when, when you're not playing up the part of your contract and they want to restructure it, then so can you, can you come in and renegotiate when you just won a Super bowl, you're like, hold on, this ain't good enough. Normally they do that for the quarterbacks. They' quarterback positions that they're willing to do that for. But the quarterback is the one position that they're normally willing to do that for. We see that a lot with Patrick Mahone because seem like every year oo they tear his contract up, give him more because but he's taking less money. Cuz Patrick Mahomes, when he signed that 10 year, what was o your $450 million deal? 500 million. It was at a discount. But he knows within basically like the day after the season they've got to guarantee the contract for next year. So he's like, I'm cool. And plus he understands like the Tom Brady. Tom's like, look, yeah, I could be the highest paid, but at what expense? Because I'm trying to collect rings and the best way to collect that is to have money. So I can keep a Travis Kelsey, I can keep a Chris Jones, I can keep a Trey Smith, I can keep some of these guys in order to build out my roster. And so we're not so top heavy. We're paying a handful of guys and we're not able to build a complete roster. But what Sam Darnold has been able to do, the change, the turnaround that he's enjoyed, I don't know, in my time of really following the NFL, basically since about 76, 76, 77. I've never seen a story like this. I've never seen a guy. I mean, he would basically Reclamation project. Ocho. He's on the trash heap. The jets got rid of him after three years. Carolina got rid of him. And he goes to. He goes to San Fran for a year. And think about what he said, right? He said, I learned a lot in San Francisco. I learned a lot in San Francisco. Then he goes to Minnesota parlays. That goes 14, three. That's what I tell guys. Joe. I tell you guys. Oh, Joe, you know, I've said this. The team that you're playing for, they're not the only one that pay players. You auditioning for the other 31 teams?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And I need guys to understand that. You think, well, oh, man. So it's just like if you're a young lady or a young guy, your girlfriend ain't the only one that got eyes. Your guy ain't the only one that got eyes. And just because they might not want to be with you or what might want to be in this relationship long term, that doesn't mean somebody else won't.

[Ocho]

Yeah, right.

[Joe]

And so I just need more guys to think about that because sometimes they get caught up in the thing. It's the end all be all where I'm at. And it's not all 32 teams pay. All 32 teams have a scouting department and they watch tape. And that tape don't lie, man. When you put that tape in, that tape don't know what position you play. It don't know how much money you make. And it doesn't know where you came from. All it does is record what it sees. Ocho. So what you put on tape, that's your resume. That's who you are.

[Ocho]

Yeah. You know, to me, obviously, I'm not sure what Dan. Where Sam Donald ranks as far as pay goes. But after winning Super Bowl, I would love for them to pay raise, but not. Yeah, not. Not a pay raise where it depletes being able to sign other players. I think Tyreek willingness up. I think there are some other.

[Joe]

I don't think he comes back. Ojo. He's gonna get too much money. And you got Spoon. What you gonna do with Spoon? What you Gonna do with jsn. You know, JSN's in third year, Ocho. He just finished his third year.

[Ocho]

So they. They want. They want to do it now, this off season.

[Joe]

You know, Spoon is a month, if I'm not mistaken. I think Spoon and JSN came in together, didn't he?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Devin Witherspoon might be. Might be up, so he got to take care of them. Tyreek Woolen, you finna hit him. Hit him across the head on the market. He's gonna hit him across the head on the open market outside. I mean, just give him. I understand. Just looking at Sam Donald and understanding the situation that he's in and the fact that he has competent. A competent organization around him, a competent gm, they're going to continue to build and put pieces around him. His ceiling is extremely high.

[Joe]

And he's young.

[Ocho]

Very. Yeah, yeah, he's young. He's very, very fairly young. So I'm excited for him. I'm excited for the Seahawks. They found their quarterback of the future. All they have to do now is continue to put pieces around him as long as he stays injury free. Damn Seahawks are always going to be competing coming out the nfc.

[Joe]

Hey, but y' all know. Y' all know the more you win now, the more money you got to spend it is. And the more people. And the more people they come. Think about it. You already lost your offensive coordinator. He gone just like that, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

No, really, when you win, everybody wants winners, so they come raise your hand house to get your. Your chicken that's laying golden eggs. Yeah, that's how it works. So you start to lose a lot of players. The more you win, the more they rob you now. Yeah, well, and I will say this. He gets lazy. Sometime. He got beat for a touchdown because he got lazy. He got lined up late, didn't he, Ocho? And then he bull job. And then he realized that Mac Hollis was already buying.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You cannot have a la. The man that hesitate. I had a coach tell me this. He said, a man that hesitate is beat in the NFL. And, Joe, you know this in basketball, if you hesitate, don't you? You beat. Cause the margin is so small. So small in order to win. Go ahead.

[Ocho]

I'm gonna tell you. Hey, Joe. And there's a reason why in football they call it. It's a game of inches. But that's all it takes, Joe. One. One mistake, one mishap, one false step, one. One hesitation, and you beat. And you think about them. Think about the NFL. I'm Speaking from a receiver standpoint and a DB standpoint like Joe, wide open is this. This is wide open.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

I swear for God, this is wide open. So most of the time quarterbacks have to throw players open, you know, and sometimes you see busted coverage or stuff like that. But understanding when people say it's a game of vengeance is simply that. And most of the time, it comes down to three, maybe four plays at a 70 plays and four quarters. Yeah, that makes a difference if you.

[Joe]

Between the man and the ball that's open.

[Ocho]

Yeah, basically.

[Joe]

So if the DB on my hip, Joe, I'm open. Yeah. If he's right here and I'm here, I'm open this scot free. And you five, six. Unless it's a busted coverage, that ain't happening.

[Ocho]

That's about only time.

[Joe]

That ain't happening.

[Ocho]

Yeah, that's about the only time there's a few receiving, Joe. Yeah, there's a few, and I'm talking about a handful, maybe two or three that can create that kind of separation where it's like, well, God damn, he wide open now. They. It ain't too. Ain't too many. I'm talking about off the muscle, Joe. You know how you say you call for ISO?

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

I don't want no help.

[Joe]

Right.

[Ocho]

And every time. You finna give him that, Joseph, I.

[Joe]

Want the 1 4. Give me that 1 4. Now go get, get out of here. Scaram, Skedam.

[Ocho]

Hey, I don't need the officer coordinator help. Hey, I don't need you to put me in motion. I don't need you to condense my split. Line me up to y' all outside the numbers. I'm gonna go to work.

[Joe]

You finna get money, man, get money.

[Ocho]

It's only about three of them, Joe. That's it.

[Joe]

All right, guys, we got a very, very special guest joining it. You know, he. He had a love of nightcap. He started the Seattle Seahawks parade yesterday. Y' all know him, E.J. the Fourth. Ernest Jones the Fourth. Congratulations, man. You. Hey, you say that I'll be back. Yeah, I'll be back.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You wasn't on the sports. They get terminated. You said, I'll be back. And you're gonna be carrying hardware with you. Congratulations.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

DJ, you. You was on the Rams when they won this thing actually in, in, in. In your own home stadium, right? What is. Is there a difference? I mean, can you compare or contrast the two if you could?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing, man, I won that one in LA my rookie year, so I Thought it was sweet, man. I thought that's what you. I thought that's what you do every year, man. And then, you know, it took me, you know, three, four years to get back to this point and to do it with this group, man, the way we love each other, the way we fight for each other each and every day, man, it definitely was different because I, you know, I understand, you know, the struggle and how hard it takes to get back to that point.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Ocho Joe. Hey, look, you won a Super bowl, you know, with two different teams, bro. Tell me, tell us what's, like, what's the mindset and preparation that separates, you know, championship teams from, you know, I probably would say just regular teams.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, I think the biggest thing, I think, is the mindset. Like, man, we went into that game like, you know, we weren't going to be denied. We were coming out of that game with something, and it had. It was something. We were coming out there with a win.

[Joe]

Right.

[Matt Rogers]

And mentality on, you know, all sides of the ball was just that. And I think that's what separates, you know, the teams that, you know, get the job done versus those that, you know, don't make it all the way.

[Joe]

Right?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Ej, after watching that game and the way you guys dominated defense, obviously having a moniker for your defense now called the Dark side, that is reminiscent of that of the Legion of Boom. Did you know you were dominated the game in this way and fashion, the way you guys did?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, man. I mean, we were watching, you know, watching the film for, you know, two weeks, man. We like, man, ain't no way you give Mike McDonald two weeks.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Matt Rogers]

But not only that, we're watching the film and we, like, man, we've seen it all. What is this team gonna do against us? And you can tell from on film that we're a different group, but when we get in front of you, it's much different. It's real life at that point. So I knew we would come out there and dominate.

[Joe]

Ej, you must have been on laporte yesterday. Cause you all been the other day. Cause you feeling good, man. I like what?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, I wish I had some of that. I wish. Nah, man. That was a little bit of that done.

[Joe]

Then where you get that T shirt from?

[Matt Rogers]

I had it made on the spot. I had been seeing it online. Like, I seen pictures of it floating around.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And I'm like, man, I've been saying F you about my quarterback all year, so let me go ahead and get this shirt.

[Joe]

When you. When you that's what's up. You mentioned your first Super Bowl. You're a rookie, so you're coming in and you got Jay Rams, you got Aaron Donald, you got. You got veteran players, you got obj, you got Stafford, you. You got Von Miller, you got Leonard Floyd, you got veteran guys on that team. Now you're in a different role. You're a leader now. And so now guys are looking to you, because even though you are a rookie on that team, they're looking to you. Okay, ej, what do we need to do? Okay, we win the championship game. What do we need to do between the time we win the championship game leading up to the. To the Super. To the actual super bowl game? So what type of advice were you able to give them, man?

[Matt Rogers]

Honestly, for me, you know, it was. It was a lot different being in LA because our super bowl was home. Everything we did, you know, was at home. Media day, you know, everything was at home. So I just told him, you know, get ready, enjoy the experience. But ultimately, man, when it comes down to when it's time for us to go, go to practice or go to meetings, man, let's be locked in. We came here ultimately to win, you know, win this game, win us the super bowl, and that's what we're going to do. So that's. That was mainly my advice.

[Ocho]

What do you do now? You got the trophy, you got the ring. Coming off season is here. Obviously, your off season is starting a little bit later than others that didn't make it to the playoffs. So what is, what does EJ do now that the season is over?

[Matt Rogers]

Man, I'm about to go get away. You know, me and my family, we love going to Hawaii, so we gonna get away here for a little bit.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And then, you know, at some point, I get back in the lab and get ready to go, you know, do this thing again.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Are you from Georgia, ej?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, South Georgia.

[Joe]

What part?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, yeah, Way Cross, Georgia.

[Joe]

Oh, hello.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, See, that's what I'm saying. You didn't even. You just finding this out. Damn.

[Joe]

I didn't know you from way cross.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, man, I'm right there.

[Joe]

Man, we used to go, man, we used to catch chickens over at Waycross and. Baxley.

[Matt Rogers]

Baxley. Yes, sir.

[Joe]

Hey, check this. Check this out. That ring. You guys kind of started that ginormous. One of those big. I'm talking about this thing this big around, right? You trying to. You trying to top that with. With the Seahawks?

[Matt Rogers]

Almost definitely. We got to. I'm hoping and Praying they let me design this thing and, you know, let me, you know, get a few ideas out there, man.

[Joe]

The Seahawk, he might be a. A real. Instead of the head, he might be the whole Seahawk. But on a more serious note, John Snyder smoke at. At the. The ceremony presentation about how you, Jake Bobo, Drew Locke, and Charles Cross all lost your fathers this year, right? Talk about that special kind of bond that you guys had going through loss, but still having the main focus because, you know, the football season doesn't stop.

[Matt Rogers]

Right.

[Joe]

Even though there might be a loss or tragedy that. That someone in the family might have faced.

[Matt Rogers]

Man, it was definitely tough when we all had those conversations together. You know, I think I lost my father first, and then right around the time that I was losing mine, you know, Charles had started going through, you know, the complications with his. So it was tough, man, you know, speaking to him and, you know, not having all the answers myself. Cause I'm still trying to deal with it. But we got a great support system there. That team, I tell you, they look out for you. They really, truly care about you. So it was easy when we came back to work because they knew, you know, that we were dealing with stuff. But they let us grieve. They let us have our moments. They let us come back and be around our boys and do this thing that we love. So it honestly made it easier being around the guys because it takes a.

[Joe]

Special type of compartmentalization because you realize, like, you know what, I am grieving, but I know my dad would want X, Y and Z. And I know the level of expectations because, you know, a lot of times sports is. Sports is not like a regular job, you know, regular job. They might give you bereavement time. You might get able to take a week or two.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Joe]

That ain't how professional sports work. Now, maybe in baseball, I could just speak to football. So I don't want to get out of, you know, get out of character and say, well, I. This is how it is in basketball. I'm talking about football.

[Matt Rogers]

Right, Man.

[Joe]

Hey, basically, you go to the. Hey. Oh, so you go into a funeral when you. When you think you'll be back, right?

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, for sure. And that's what I say, like, for, you know, for most. Most teams. And I can't speak for every team, but I know that they wouldn't be willing to let their start, middle linebacker leave too much and miss that much of time during training camp and the things before. And they didn't stress me out about it at all. They Let us do what we had to do. So I really appreciate them for that.

[Ocho]

It's funny, especially when it comes to losing loved ones. I think teams understand that the owners, the GMs, obviously the head coaches, we've all dealt with loss. Sometimes it happens during the season and in season, I lost my father. I lost my father when I was with the Patriots uncle. He. He. He passed away from pancreatic cancer as well. And they, they. They allowed me to. To. To. To do what I needed to do, to do what was necessary as far as funeral arrangements and going to a funeral and, and, and. And. And having. Having to come back. And they understand that most of the time, your brothers in that locker room, they understand what you're going through. So sometimes it's somewhat good. And you want to be back in that environment of your extended family or, you know, to be around the fellas, to kind of get away from that. Because most of the time you go to. Go to work, especially after a tragedy like that, that. That's. That's your sense of peace.

[Matt Rogers]

No, definitely peace.

[Ocho]

Being around your brothers, man, it may make you feel a lot better.

[Joe]

Oh, for sure, definitely. But the thing is, the best thing about that with you, A.J. is that you're a vested player. Because a lot of times I remember my great grandmother passed, I was afraid to ask. I was like, no, I ain't gonna even ask. I ain't gonna even ask. Then when my grandma, my grandma, my dad's mom passed, we ended up like, we're gonna have to have this thing on a Monday. Cause if you don't have it on the Monday, I'm not gonna be able to make it. So, you know, fortunate enough, you, like you said, you're a vested player. And, you know, they gave you that kind of time because they, like. Like I said, we understand that. This is. They say this. This is what they say. Oh, you know, family is the most important.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, man.

[Joe]

Stop it.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, it's football important, too.

[Joe]

Exactly, man. E.J. congratulations, man. We're proud of you. Thanks for coming on during the season and talking. What to OOI nightcap. Congratulations. Two time super bowl champ.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

Now, hey, in the same division, one with the Rams, now with the Seahawks.

[Matt Rogers]

That's it.

[Joe]

Been a linebacker for the Seattle Seahawks. Great defense, had an unbelievable game. Oh, before we get you out of here, what did you guys see on tape? Because y' all brought spoon a lot more on the blitz. Normally is. It's emo that would come on the blitz, but this time it was Spoon and he was getting home because he timed it up perfect. What did you guys see that said, you know what that Coach Max said? You know what Spoon you got home with him?

[Matt Rogers]

We gotta play them next year. Okay, But I will say this. I will say this. The. The way Coach Mike seen it is how it worked out. Yeah, the way it.

[Joe]

Coach. So in other words, they had a tail.

[Matt Rogers]

They had a. They had a little tail and. Okay. And we had to do what we had to do.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Well, that's awesome, man. Well, congratulations, EJ Man. Enjoy. Hey, get with. Get away with your family for a couple of weeks.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey, yes, sir.

[Joe]

You know, it's either being the honey hunter than it is the hunt is.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, I love the hunt, though. We still know that's what I'm talking about.

[Joe]

All right, man, Congratulations, enjoy your time off, and we'll see you down the road.

[Matt Rogers]

Thank y'.

[Joe]

All. Congrats. Ernest Jones, the board super bowl champ of the Seattle Seahawks.