Deebo & Joe - Part 2: David Montgomery on Texans Defense, Time in Chicago, Fatherhood & More!

Summary

Nightcap Podcast Summary

Episode: Deebo & Joe – Part 2: David Montgomery on Texans Defense, Time in Chicago, Fatherhood & More!
Date: June 30, 2026
Hosts: Shay Shay Media & Playmaker (Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson)
Special Guest: David Montgomery (with heavy participation from Deebo Samuel and Joe)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Nightcap brings candid, emotional, and insightful conversation between NFL running backs and panelists about transitioning between teams, battles with mental health, the reality of family and fatherhood as pro athletes, and the relentless grind of NFL training. David Montgomery, reflecting on his journey from Chicago Bears to Detroit and now the Houston Texans, discusses regaining his love for football, lessons in leadership, personal growth, and the impact of becoming a father. The show transitions smoothly between football talk, deep dives into mental health, poetry, and powerful takes on what it means to be a good human beyond the field.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Chicago to Detroit: The Loss and Return of Football Joy

• Losing Joy in Chicago:
  • Montgomery discusses how his time with the Bears was shadowed by immense pressures—being handed unprecedented money as a young man out of hardship, and feeling the weight of expectations from family and fans (03:01–06:44).
    • “I was trying to, like, fulfill everybody's... expectations but my own.” —David Montgomery, (05:31)
    • “The hardest year of my career... was my rookie year.” —David Montgomery, (05:40)
• Mental Health and Identity:
  • The panel connects over how family circumstances and trauma can make the “escape” of football become yet another source of stress (06:44–07:33).
  • Quote: "It’s no longer escape. It’s a higher expectation... It’s not your joy anymore.” —Shannon Sharpe, (06:44)
• Finding Inner Peace:
  • The discussion centers on the need for athletes to find internal peace, regardless of external chaos (08:07–09:16).
  • “At the end of the day, there’s an inner peace that you gonna have to have.” —Joe, (08:07)

Houston Texans Defense & Practice Stories

• High Praise and Brutal Honesty:
  • Montgomery reflects on the tenacity of Texans’ defensive unit, comparing them favorably to his experiences going against elite Bears units (09:18–10:41).
    • “If you don’t get better on offense, it’s ‘cause you soft as hell.” —David Montgomery, (10:41)
• Importance of Grinding in Practice:
  • The hosts stress the value of high-intensity practice as a way to prepare for game-day escalation (10:53–11:44).

Transforming Physique & Embracing the Feature Role

• Personal Transformation:
  • Montgomery details physical preparation for his role in Houston, dropping significant weight to gain speed and durability (11:54–12:49).
    • “My body percent is under 10. The preparation in being able to handle the role that is coming my way...this is everything I prayed for.” —David Montgomery, (11:54)

Faith & Fatherhood as Guiding Forces

• Grounding by Faith:
  • There’s a collective focus on faith as the foundation, especially to deal with NFL pressures and life’s valleys and peaks (12:57–13:44).
    • “It starts and ends with your Lord and Savior...He’s never going to give you more than you can handle.” —Shannon Sharpe, (12:57)
• Fatherhood's Impact:
  • Montgomery and the hosts reflect deeply on how their children have made them more emotionally available, nurturing, and focused (30:58–36:31).
    • “The first moment I held my son, it was the most quiet my life has been.” —David Montgomery, (32:02)
    • “He loves me just for my existence...that little moment gives me enough to get through the hardest of mental challenges.” —David Montgomery, (34:46)

Poetry as Healing & Vulnerability

• Montgomery’s Poem:
  • In a surprising and intimate moment, Montgomery reads “Fear,” a poem reflecting anxiety, growth, and letting go of past pain (15:26–17:03, see Moment below).
• Reflection and Encouragement:
  • The group lauds his vulnerability.
    • “That was fire.” —Joe, (17:24)
    • “You only live once. It ain’t no sense of you hiding something that could help somebody else.” —David Montgomery, (17:30)

Roots, Leadership Lessons, and Community Impact

• Eagle Scout Stories:
  • Montgomery credits his mother’s insistence on scouting—and his Eagle Scout experience—for leadership and moral grounding, especially growing up in a challenging neighborhood (18:20–20:03).
    • “My responsible traits, some of those come from scouting... just being a good human.” —David Montgomery, (19:08)
• Higher Purpose:
  • He discusses the importance of humility, dismissing stat-chasing in favor of making a positive difference off the field (26:48–28:48).
    • “Give me my flowers by telling me I’m a hell of a pops...when the shit is gone, it’s gone.” —David Montgomery, (26:48)
    • “This game is cool...I’m in it for the people.” —David Montgomery, (27:34)

Life After Trauma and Breaking the Cycle

• Working on Emotions:
  • Montgomery highlights the value of therapy, being present, and breaking the generational cycles of standoffishness and emotional limitation (29:55–36:31).
  • The hosts connect over the impact of losing loved ones and the healing brought by their kids.

NFL Training Culture and Danny Ball

• “Dungeon” Atmosphere:
  • The hosts describe hyper-competitive, demanding off-season and in-season training, emphasizing intensity, individualized work, and camaraderie (40:07–49:38).
    • “You gotta be a dog. You gotta be ready to work. This ain’t for anybody that don’t want to work.” —Shannon Sharpe, (47:47)

Listener Questions & NFL Hot Takes

• The trio respond to fan “Super Chats” about Steelers games, running styles, what it’s like to go up against one another, and off-season physical goals. These moments mix humor, bravado, and mutual respect (53:07–61:07).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Facing Expectations and Pressure

• “I was trying to, like, fulfill everybody's... expectations but my own. The expectation I was meeting on this side was clashing with that side, and I was forgetting myself.”
  —David Montgomery (05:31)

Poetic Vulnerability

• Montgomery Reads ‘Fear’ (15:26–17:03):
  • “The fear doesn’t lie in the exchange of death, but the fear is realizing the amount of pain that I kept. Silence at the exterior, but chaos inside. The feeling of walking dead and still sleeping alive... What am I? Who am I?... Fear, my dear friend, you will no longer be the one I show love to.”
    (15:26–17:03)

About the Importance of Fatherhood

• “The first moment I held my son...it was the most honest I’ve ever been with myself.”
  —David Montgomery (32:02)
• “He can care less about a ball, he can care less about money...that boy didn’t love me. I’m his dad and that’s enough.”
  —David Montgomery (34:46)

On Returning to Football Joy

• “Whatever it is, my gratitude for the moment or my gratitude for whatever God give me, I’m ready for it.”
  —David Montgomery (12:49)

On Being a Good Human, Not Just a Player

• “Give me my flyer by telling me I’m a hell of a pops...when the shit is gone, it’s gone.”
  —David Montgomery (26:48)

On NFL Training

• “You gotta be a dog. You gotta be ready to work. This ain’t for anybody that don’t want to work.”
  —Shannon Sharpe (47:47)

On His Sister’s Courage

• “It’s unfortunate that it happened, but it ain’t stopping up. My sister got going on. That’s my baby. So she good.”
  —David Montgomery (57:42–58:23)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Losing/Finding Love for Football & Mental Health: 03:01–09:16
• Texans Defense & Practice Battles: 09:18–12:49
• Faith, Fatherhood, and Emotional Growth: 30:58–36:31
• Poetry Moment (“Fear”): 15:26–17:03
• Leadership, Eagle Scout, and Community: 18:20–20:03
• Intense Off-season Training (‘Danny Ball’): 40:07–49:38
• Listener Questions & Rival Talk: 53:07–61:07

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is raw, honest, and intimate—balancing brotherly teasing and bravado with moments of vulnerability and affirmation. The panel is dedicated to keeping it real, celebrating each other for more than just gridiron feats but for growth as fathers, men, and leaders.

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Takeaway

David Montgomery’s journey—of overcoming trauma, embracing fatherhood, chasing personal growth, and still grinding in the NFL—offers not only football insights but life lessons in self-care, authenticity, and humility. The camaraderie among the hosts, their laughter, encouragement, and willingness to be open about their struggles, makes this episode a must-listen for fans of the game and anyone interested in stories of personal transformation.

Transcript

[Deebo Samuel]

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[Tab Ramos]

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[Joe]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

And hey, come on, no cleats on the seats.

[Tab Ramos]

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[Karen and Georgia]

One of the things I love the

[Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

Every moment matters. There's a person behind every problem.

[Karen and Georgia]

I care because it's what I was

[Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador]

put on this earth to do.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Ben and I work at UnitedHealthcare. I am just one piece of a larger puzzle. But every piece matters. It's more than just work. We want to make the healthcare system better for everyone. I care because I want to make a difference. That's what committed to care means to me.

[Tony Yayo]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

Matter of fact, you know what, speaking of talking where, where you, you had said, you know, being with the Bears, you lost, you lost that, that fun of the game, I love of the game, you know, where you, you enjoy that. You were able to get that back, I'm assuming when you got over there to Detroit. What, what, what, what. What was the leading factor that had you lose some of that, some of that joy?

[Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

Honestly. Because, you know, if I say this wrong, this could be, it could be viral. But be careful.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

You got

[Deebo Samuel]

was less of, you know, like me being in Chicago. I think like Chicago Bears fans think like I unappreciated Chicago. I love Chicago too. Like there was a team that drafted me, they traded 11 spots.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I was gonna say that to get you.

[Deebo Samuel]

I appreciate it for them being there. But the time and the point in my life, I was a youngin. I came from nothing. Like I didn't have anything at all. And you give me the most money I ever had in my life and my job and my occupation that I thought was always to take care of my family, my entire family. And that shit was running. We wasn't winning. Like I wasn't doing the things that I knew and I thought that I was capable of doing in the first couple of years. So that time of me like going through my personal stuff and trying to optimal football player, it wasn't meshing. And like my time in Chicago, it was tough, it was hard like, but it wasn't because, you know, the Chicago, the city is, you know, Chicago was bad or they were just terrible. Yeah, I love Chicago. Or like the organization wasn't like I love the McCaskeys. You know, it's all love. It's just my time of where I was at in the positioning of my life.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like I was in your personal life where you, how you were able to deal with it or not deal with it. It didn't, it didn't, it didn't, you know, coincide with you being able to do what was necessary in Chicago and still have that, that, that, that, that joy.

[Joe]

And they don't realize Too. We just. Bro, you growing up. You know what I'm saying? You becoming. You from. He came out of junior, you know what I'm saying? Like, bro, same thing. I was 21. We got drafted. So that those first couple of years when family. You know what I'm saying? Like, man, we made it. You know what I'm saying? That's time where you still. Football's the main. That's what we gotta do. This is what we got here for. But that whole time, I've been living my whole life planning on trying to work and grind and figure it out. Now I gotta. I got family here. So that whole time of like, maturing is a. Is nothing to do with the city. Ain't nothing to do with the ball play. Like, I'm trying to get right. But I can see how you saying that a thousand percent growing up at the same time you trying to get your league stuff to go on for sure.

[Deebo Samuel]

Because I was trying to do. Bro, the craziest thing for me is I was trying to like, fulfill everybody's. Everybody else's expectations, but my own.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

I mean, it was like everybody expectations were different. So the expectation that I was meeting on this side, it was clashing with this side. And what was happening was I was forgetting about myself. You know, they always say, like, I can't be optimal for everybody else if I'm not optimal for myself. I was tore up. Like, my rookie year was the hardest year of like, my career. I've been through hard in my life. You know, I didn't get killed. I lost my brother to the system. I lost one of my other close friends to, you know, I'm saying, getting killed and then another one. Like, it just was. I was used to that. I was poor, all that. Nobody. I don't feel sorry for myself. Nobody care about that. But like, it's a different battle when you playing ball and like, you know, you like, that's your escape. That's where you go get away from all of this shit that's happening outside of them.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Deebo Samuel]

Then you get inside of the lines and it's like, damn. Like, I got this pressure of trying to fulfill the expectations of everybody else. And I wasn't. I'm like. I felt like I was failing.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah. It's no longer escape. It's. It's a. It's a higher expectation on it that it's. It's not your. It's not your joy anymore. Like, I understand what you're saying, dude. Like. Like, it's. Especially with you like you said, you being young, like, you done. You don't. You don't ran into all this money. So now you really. You the breadwinner, and you're trying to take care of everything, make sure everybody is taken care of. You got all that on top of you. Now you got the pressures of being like, you know what? I'm the man of the whole house, the whole family, dude. I'm taking care of this. I'm taking care of that now. Damn, what if I don't play well? Like, like now, you know, and you still not even getting to that point of where you're worried about that because you're worried about trying to keep everybody else happy and not focus on what you need to do to make sure you're good so that you can keep continuing to play well and. And earn that money so that you can take care of your family.

[Deebo Samuel]

Sure. Like that uncomfortable position to me. And I definitely, like, feel like God put, like, certain people in those positions because, you know, he know facts. But, like, when you in it and you in the mix, bruh, like, you like, bro, what is this? Like, you can have all the money and shit back. You can have it back. Just let me be normal again. And then it's like, you know what? I worked hard. I prayed for that position. Like, I would be disrespecting God if

[Joe]

I gave it back.

[Deebo Samuel]

So I'm like, you know what? Let me. Just let me trust. Rely on him, you know, A lot of pressure to be the pressure.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Get into your word.

[Joe]

Yes, I was going to ask you that question, bro, because you were saying, like, people don't know. You say everybody goes through stuff. And you saying, no, like, my people was murdered in your fam and all of this stuff. And just being able to understand, like, you have to have your own peace. And you being able to be like, man, I had to go find that. So God's not putting that. God won't put you in a position to handle stuff that you don't think you can handle. So when I'm hearing you telling your story, everybody, you. You don't. When you don't say your stories, people don't really know what you've been through. You know what I'm saying? They just like, oh, no, no, they don't care. But when you let people know what's going on, people hearing it, I'm. This is really good for me. You know what I'm saying? You just letting people know. Like, at the end of the day, there's an inner peace that you gonna have to have, like seeing Chris Johnson. Life happens so fast. Like, life is too short for us to be sitting there. Like, no tripping on what everybody else going on. We could slow down, you know what I'm saying, and just be able to be. Be at peace. So I. I appreciate you putting that out here and letting people know. Like, at the end of the day, people have struggles. Everybody got stuff going on. And when you saying that, like, just know people hearing for you. And I respect you so much, brother, because that's the way. You know what I'm saying? That's the way.

[Deebo Samuel]

Love, bro. I appreciate that. For real love.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, man, speaking of defense over there, man, what is that like practicing against them boys, man?

[Deebo Samuel]

Bro, like, I ain't gonna lie.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Boy is fine.

[Deebo Samuel]

Listen, I done played it with some. I played with Khalil Mack, I played with Aiden Hutchinson when I first got to the league, bro, I was going against the front line that I was going. I was going against Leonard Floyd.

[Joe]

Yes, yes.

[Deebo Samuel]

Khalil Mack, Akeem Hicks, Bilal Nichols. We had Kyle Fuller on the corner, Eddie Jackson at the safety, Principal Mara on the other side. We had Buster Screen at the nickel. We had Danny Trevathan at linebacker, Roquan Smith at linebacker. That defense was crazy. I was a rookie, fool. I've never. I've never in my life seen a defense like the Texans. Will Anderson gets ball so fast, you think he jumping offside. And he's strong, bro. Like, you got the whole back engine, bro. Like Kamari, cb, sting. You got Petri, bro, like animals. You got Aziz leading the charge in the middle. You got Henry. Like, bro, like, if you don't get better on offense, bro, it's cause like, you soft as hell.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, hey, no question.

[Deebo Samuel]

That means you don't want to fight.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

You don't, right? You don't want to fight. No, listen, man, we here to fight. We here to fight in a fishbowl, baby.

[Deebo Samuel]

Now, so that I can fight.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'd rather fight with you now so we could fight together in that game and whoop somebody ass. You understand? Like, I want you out. Listen, I want. I want your best on that practice field, man, because here's the thing. I don't care how hard you practice and practice, it will never be to the level that you play in the game. And the harder you practice and practice, the more you level up in that game. People don't understand that. Now, it is some people that, you know, you done seen it where, man, that boy practice play is fire. But when he get to that game, it's the same thing. He don't hit another level. Yeah, it's very few people that have that, but it is some people that do that. And that's why you see a guy you like, damn, man. Why don't they start him? Well, they don't start him because that's the same level he practiced in practice. It's gonna be the same thing in game, but everybody else done leveled up in that game and he can't. Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm excited for you to be able to get that 100% toast. You ready to be the main.

[Karen and Georgia]

Yes.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yes. How excited are you to be the actual feature back?

[Deebo Samuel]

You know, I, I've been in a place for a while where like sharing is caring and I've been cool. It's still, it's still that here in Houston. Like, but even like transforming my body. Like say last year I was like 235. Like I weigh. So I've lost a lot of weight. Like I weigh what we waited in.223 the other day. Body percent is under 10. Like the preparation in being able to like handle the role that is coming my way. Like, this is everything that I prayed for. So if it don't happen, it's going to be because I wasn't committed to God when I needed to be, or it was because God was telling me just to wait a little longer. But whatever it is, my gratitude for the moment or my gratitude for whatever God give me, I'm ready for it.

[Joe]

Come on.

[Deebo Samuel]

I pray for it. I'm scared.

[Joe]

It's man. I love, I love, I love, I love everything my man is saying.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Debo, you are, you are. You, you are, you are faith, you are faith based, man. You know what I'm saying? I, I love that, man. That's, that's, that's something that a lot of people don't understand, man. It starts and ends with your Lord and Savior, man is, is. He's never going to give you more than you can handle. So whatever it is, whether you're in a, you know, whether you're in a valley or you're at the top of the mountain, believe that you are at some point you're going to be climbing up that mountain or falling down it and, and you got to be ready and prepared to be there and actually thank and express love and be there and talk to your Lord and Savior and help you in that situation. Whether it's climbing the mountain or falling down, it's. I don't think a Lot of people understand, like, it starts and ends with your Lord and Satan.

[Deebo Samuel]

I'm equipped, you know, whatever it is I'm equipped for.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

Yes.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yes.

[Joe]

I got a question for you, Debo.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yes.

[Joe]

What is your. Do you have, like, a surprising. Do you got, like, a surprising hobby?

[Karen and Georgia]

Me?

[Joe]

No, somebody.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Oh, I thought you said Debo.

[Joe]

My bad.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Debo, too.

[Joe]

My bad, my bad. My demo.

[Deebo Samuel]

So just honestly, like, recently, I've been kind of quiet, so. One of my brothers, one of my close friends, he passed a couple months ago. He used to do poetry. Like, he. But he was, like. His name was Javante Williams. Like, nice with the pen.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

And, like, I used to, like, doodle and do stuff, like, you know what I'm saying? Express it to get my feelings on paper. But I would keep it to myself, like a couple of pieces that I had written. But, like, ever since, you know, he had been gone physically, I've been trying to, like, dive into it more, to be, like, more open about it.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

You know, I've been writing poetry lately. That's been, like, something I have been. I've had already, but I've kind of picked it up aloud. So, like, it's loud. I'm not scared of anybody hearing it. 2.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Got something for us? You got something for us?

[Deebo Samuel]

My stuff's kind of deep.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What you mean? What are you talking about? This is what it's for.

[Tony Yayo]

This is.

[Deebo Samuel]

Now, if you want to hear it, I'm gonna.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hell, yeah. Let's go.

[Joe]

I would love to. That's what I'm like. This is what I was in.

[Tony Yayo]

This.

[Joe]

When you ask a question like this. This is the hobby that. I was hoping he would say something like this. Really?

[Deebo Samuel]

Let me see. This is called fear. It says, flustered and concerned with the term growth is the choice that I fear is the tightening of the rope I feel my grip slipping as I attempt to clinch tighter But I met with the reality that if I let go the weight will be lighter drawn from the site so which bare hallucinations while still balancing the realities of all complications Steady, steady, steady wins the race but steady is only steady when there's a constant change of pace Being pulled and swayed from all angles and directions While growth becomes toxic when it's supplied by infection what cures fear when being fueled by self when mistakes feel like lashes caused by the belt no air My nose surfaces from the deep end of the water Only for the burn of life Getting hotter and hotter the demons mocking the existence of all angels Being the pawn while the strings are still Being pulled under the table. The fear doesn't lie in the exchange of death, but the fear is realizing the amount of pain that I kept. Silence at the exterior, but chaos inside. The feeling of walking dead and still sleeping alive. Being alone in a room full of crowd of people. For the fight, for the experience to never be equal. What am I? Who am I? Taunted by confusion, misguided by the hides, but still met with the illusion fear. My dear friend, you. You will no longer be the one I show love to.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, bruh, let's go, bro.

[Joe]

I don't care what nobody say.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Right now, right now, send that to me.

[Deebo Samuel]

I can do that. Yeah, that's easy facts, man.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, listen. Don't send it to me because I'm a copyright trademark.

[Joe]

That I ain't going to,

[Deebo Samuel]

bro.

[Joe]

That was fire.

[Deebo Samuel]

I've been in it for a little.

[Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador]

How long?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

How long you been doing that? Tightening the grip. Come on, now.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, but I haven't. I mean, I kind of did it quiet for a while, but it's just these past couple of months with my brother being gone, you know, seeing, like, the people that he's affected and kind of make you realize, like, you only live once. It ain't no sense of you hiding something that could help somebody else.

[Joe]

Come on, man.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

All right.

[Deebo Samuel]

So,

[Joe]

Demo, you did it for me today, brother. Yo, I'm gonna lie, man.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Keep up with it, brother.

[Karen and Georgia]

Keep.

[Joe]

Keep it up, bro. Seriously, the energy that you give off is everything. Like, with. Just how genuine are you? A real one. I could already tell we never met before, but I just seen you from afar. I've always been watching you and just seeing. I appreciate you, brother. Being able to get on the call what you have, and you come on to the show. You just giving life and love.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Look here, look here, man. This ain't nothing new, man. He was an Eagle Scout, man. I'm just saying, he was doing that young man, Tell him about how you. What you were doing as a young. He's a real one as a young child, man. Joe don't even know what an Eagle Scout does, man. Tell him, Demo.

[Deebo Samuel]

Nah. So me, honestly, bro, I didn't. My mom was big, big on, like, you're not gonna be out here in these streets. Like, we lived in the hood, bro. So my family around me, like, was charged, like, they was, you know, I'm in the mix, let's just say.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Deebo Samuel]

My mom forced me, my older brother uni, and my older brother Maceo to, like, do scouts like, y'. All gonna play football if y' all want to play ball. I gotta do scouts. But it was just her way of trying to get us distracted from be out there in the streets.

[Tab Ramos]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

So I started when I was young. I remember the age, but I went all the way up. You got to 18 years old to become an Eagle Scout. Eagle Scout just. It's not just, but it's a ranking that the highest ranking that you can get being a scout. Most people think you just like selling popcorn. Some people ask me if we sell cookies. That's Girl Scouts. Honestly, I learned a lot of life lessons in scouting, like how to be a leader. Like, some of my traits come from scouting. My responsible traits, like me being responsible, being able to, you know, do certain things in a morally sound way, but like just being a good human. I think sometimes society and the world population gives you an idea what a good human looks like. But I disagree. And it's okay to disagree, but kind of like stand on a sound moral. I think that the people that you touch and who you are. I got a son, too.

[Joe]

So it's like, come on, man. New son. How old?

[Deebo Samuel]

Baby's three.

[Joe]

Three. Come on, man. Congratulations, brother.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Lil demo.

[Joe]

That'll get you.

[Tony Yayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Willis go up soon game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

Imagine yourself in a vehicle from Hyundai's bold EV lineup. Perhaps you're commuting to work in an Ioniq 5 with everything you've been yearning for in your next EV, including tech infused safety features like Highway Driving assist too and Blind Spot Collision Avoidance Assist. Or imagine you're hitting the track in the Ioniq 5N going 0-60mph in a blistering 3.25 seconds with Engrin Boost engaged. Or perhaps imagine you and all your friends are road tripping to Vegas in the Ioniq 9 with its class leading interior space and available third row seating. There's room for the whole crew. I'm feeling lucky.

[Tab Ramos]

Yes.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

And of course they're all backed by America's best warranty and a 10 year or 100,000 mile limited electric battery warranty. No matter which Hyundai EV you choose, you've chosen well. Learn more about Hyundai EVs at HyundaiUSA.com call 562-314-4603 for complete details. See your Hyundai dealer for limited warranty details. America's best warranty claim based on total package of warranty programs. See Dealer for limited warranty details. See your Hyundai dealer for further details and limitations.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from inside American Soccer and this summer topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game and at more than 60 locations. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net and every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Sergey Ghosh, Heineken's chief AI officer, to learn how the company is brewing up new workflows with AI. If you can connect all the different

[Tab Ramos]

applications, all the platforms remove fragmentation scale very quick.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

That's what we call the best connected drawer.

[Tab Ramos]

That's where IBM is really partnering with us.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Crack a cold one and listen to our full [e-mail] smarttalks

[Karen and Georgia]

are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now? Really? At a playground? Yeah, really look at these listings from dealers. Wow. Your search can really get that specific. Really? And you just put in your info and boom, car's in your budget. Mom needs a second. Honey, you can really have it delivered. Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car. Mommy, I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle. Again? Really? Auto trader. Buy your car online. Really?

[Joe]

That'll get you right.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And this you over there kicking it with us.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, you be kicking out.

[Joe]

That'll get you right.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Watching on Cheerios.

[Joe]

Your mom did a great job. Because you could just tell, bro, when you see somebody that just. Just you. You. You carry yourself in the right way and you know what it is like at the end of the day, you want to treat the. The easiest thing, as I can see. Treat people the way you want to be treated. You know what I'm saying? Always like, so just coming off with the first thing. Just being like, the kindness, the niceness, always just coming out with that first because it's going to be weirdos, but nobody knows each other.

[Tab Ramos]

Energy.

[Joe]

If I coming off to you nice, you coming right back. It's love. You know what I'm saying? There's no. No weirdness. It's always just start with love, and then we can go from there. If people coming off the wrong way. So, like, you just be speaking real genuine human facts, like, this is the way. And now when you got a kid trying to just instill that until you'll see. Because now it's like, that's the only way it's going to be able to keep this world going the right way. Nice people being nice to people, and just everybody trying to work together.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And mama, put that foot down.

[Joe]

Mama put that foot down, too. And it be somebody's going to be

[Malcolm Gladwell]

in this house, go happen, and this is how you go behave. As a matter of fact, this is what you go do if you want to be able to do the thing that you enjoy. You want to play football, you over here. And like he said, it's another way to keep you up out of these streets. I ain't losing my son to these streets. She said, y' all got life fucked up.

[Joe]

No, for sure. Everybody don't, man. No, everybody don't love him. And I'm showing my baby the right way.

[Deebo Samuel]

I definitely, like, appreciate my mom for her availability and her how intentional she was and ensuring, like, our safety and my safety. Now, my older brothers, I love them, you know, they got their own journeys in their paths. But, you know, I was, I think at a young age I was forced to be more aware. So I always kind of. When you catch me in rooms where I'm quiet, it's not because I'm scared or anything. It's just because I'm very observant and I try to learn from everybody else's, you know, body of work to kind of get me to a position to where I can be optimal. But, you know, I've always been like, I don't like being like heavily, you know, tired of this, being like, oh, this NFL player. Like, you know, like, even in the beginning where y' all was kind of like kicking like the stats and stuff

[Malcolm Gladwell]

like that, like, that's cool, but like, it don't matter. That's how I bring you in. You understand that I'm Achilles your flowers. That's how I bring you in. If you ain't, I don't give a fuck if you like it or not. You understand?

[Deebo Samuel]

Give me my flyer by telling me, like, I'm a hell of a pops, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, give me my flyers and tell me like, I'm a dope ass human. Like, the stats and accolades, like, when the shit is gone, it's gone. And I realize that while I'm playing. But if I. The day that I go and I got a group of people at my funeral and they talking about the things that I did that don't got nothing to pertain to football, then I did my job. But like, cool. I appreciate everything that's done for me for shit show. I'm so, so. I have so much gratitude for this and I got more left in the tank. But like, it's really like a lot of it sometimes be a facade of people like, you see these professional athletes who seem as if they untouchable or like they treat people with a level of like, disrespect to her. Like, yes, who are you?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm above you. No, you're not crazy.

[Deebo Samuel]

Because I don't take much for something to change in such a short period of time to where you gonna people that you're looking down on. So it's like I look at everybody. Like, I try to treat everybody respect. I try to like, let. Enable people to know, like, I'm. I'm a human bruh. Like, you could just kick it in me. Like, you can rock. Like, I don't be on none of that weird stuff. Like, you can't talk to me like, oh, nah, let's kick it, let's Talk. You know what I'm saying? Something you need from me that I can give to you in that moment, whether it's, you know, food and knowledge or me just being able to be an ear you can hear. Like, I'm there for that, bro, because I care about the human population more than I do about the game. Like, this game is cool. And I. Like I said, I definitely appreciate everything it's done for me. But, bro, I'm in it for the people. Like I said, kids back at home who toe up and struggling and me playing in the field. Just a thought, but that's enough for me to get close enough to them to touch them. Like, bro, y' all can do whatever you want to do for real, and I'm here to support it, and I'm

[Joe]

here to help you.

[Deebo Samuel]

But, like, I can't stand the cats who be like, then did all of this stuff and get all these accolades and the pros, and they not trying to, like, let people know that, like, I'm human and I was you once in your shoes, too. Like, I hate being bigger than the program, bruh. Cause this shit ain't nothing for real, bruh.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

This football. Hey, listen, listen, listen, man. God blessed you and put you in a position to be able to do what it is you doing right now. Yeah, you may not care about the football part, but that is part of God's plan. Putting you in a position to be able to touch and reach more people because they're going to look to you because of your position, and now they're going to listen to you.

[Deebo Samuel]

I respect you Right, too.

[Joe]

You're right. Because I tell you one thing, Demo, because what you say all. Both of y' all are speaking the same thing. We saying the same stuff. You know what I'm saying? And I just love Demo. You gonna be able to get the. The reach, bro, because you understand what's going on. You understand what life is really about. So that's just. It's amazing, man,

[Deebo Samuel]

for media to appreciate, like, my moments and to, you know, value things with care and, like, to protect, you know, people's emotions and feelings. I don't. I was one of them people who, you know, didn't know how to be emotionally sound, didn't know how to process my emotions and, like. Like, closed off to people and, like, you know, I'm sending those people that they weren't being closed off to me. So it took me going through a lot, bumping my head.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What. What. What helped you learn to do that? But because. Because for Me, the thing that. That opened me up and made me realize that I gotta stop being this dude that's, like, just so standoffish. I don't want to talk to nobody. I don't want to communicate with nobody. I don't want to tell nobody I love them. I don't want to say those words. Like, I don't want to seem soft and weak. I don't want to show no emotion. That isn't anger for me. It was my sons.

[Deebo Samuel]

Nope, that's. That's exactly what I was gonna say.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Facts and that right there, like,

[Joe]

hold up.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I think, yeah, yeah, cut out.

[Joe]

Good. You're good.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And I. I. I tell. For me, I tell people this, like, I didn't plan on having kids. You know what I'm saying? But I had kids. And the reason I didn't plan on having kids or I didn't want to have kids is that I never wanted to care more about somebody else than I did myself. In the minute James dropped, I was like, oh, snap.

[Deebo Samuel]

Ah, there it is.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I am. I'm in love with this thing right here. And now I care about him, and now I. I need to take care of him. And that was the process of where I was like, you know what? And then. Losing my dad and not being communicative about saying I love you. That was something that I didn't want to have with my kids. So even when I talk to my kids today, the last thing they say is, I love you. And I say, I love you more. And I didn't understand that concept, bro, until I had my sons, when my parents would say, you know, they love me more, and I couldn't love them more than they love me. You can't. Your son can never love him. Like, it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. And he's not gonna understand that, especially when he get older. He's gonna think he can, but he won't understand that until he have his own.

[Joe]

Your parents always say, you know, you won't understand until you have your own.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm saying, so what was it that that changed you into that person that, you know, you are now, bro?

[Deebo Samuel]

Quite frankly, like, my stepdad was an amazing. Like, my sister dad was a great dad, and my stepdad was an incredible human. Both of them were like great humans and father figures to me. I didn't know my real pops, so, like, I had an idea of what it looked like. But, like, when you had your own kid, like, the first moment that I held my son, it was the most quiet that my life has been. You know, like, I'm holding my. My child and my seat in my hand and like him in his pure form. And I asked myself, when I'm holding my son in my hand, I'm like, what am I going to do? And it wasn't like a question for like a financial prognosis. It wasn't like, for a standpoint of me wanting to financially care for my child. Because that wasn't a question. It was a question to reform. Like, what am I going to do? And to show my child to be the best human that you can be. To be able to lead with your heart and follow and take care of people that like the things that I wasn't doing optimally in my life. It was probably the first time in my life I was the most honest with myself. Like, I'm not doing these things right in my life and in these areas. And if I don't fix and change who I am, then I won't be able to. I won't. How am I expecting this beautiful, pure thing to turn into something that's morally sound? To stand up for something that's he believes in if he's standing alone him to protect the people that he love him go out and do things that he believe. How can I expect him to do that if I'm not living up to them standards? So like you saying, Debo, like, my son reassures me of his love constantly, ten times over. Like, I've never experienced unconditional love from him in my life. Like, I kid you not, my baby boy, like before I dropped him off at school this morning, he wake me up in the morning and the first thing he does, he gives me a kiss and he says, daddy, I love you so much. And to me, like, that's enough for me to the hardest of the hard things. That view is a mental like that challenges my mental capacity. That little moment throughout my day, it gives. It buys me so much, buys me so much, like, being able to get up and like, make the tough decisions to, like it's hard or temptation. Like all of that shit is, like, it don't matter because my kid, like, has. He loves me just for my existence. Like, he could care less about a ball. He can care less about some money, he can care less about some notoriety or status. That boy didn't love me.

[Joe]

That boy love his dad.

[Deebo Samuel]

I'm his dad and that's enough. Us being the professional athletes that we are, it's not enough. People who care for us just for us, just for us. But being met with a soul, that's mine, that's my seed. My son carries my. Literally my DNA.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Responsible for raising him into a man. Yes.

[Joe]

Come on.

[Deebo Samuel]

And it's like, okay. Like, it makes sense. It snaps. So, like, my emotion, my emotional response couldn't be, like, closed off. When my son, tell me you love me. I can't. It ain't like, boy, quit that soft ass.

[Joe]

No, I love you too, boy. Yeah, like.

[Deebo Samuel]

Or cry. Like, you're not allowed to cry. Like, there's times and instances where you, you, you cried. But there's only times where I got to be tough on you too, so that you're gonna have scars, to, like, allow you to be strong, to be able to callous yourself so you can handle more. There's a fine line in between that. But, like, the emotional, like, awareness that I have gained from the last three years of my child being here, like, it's off the charts. And my son don't even know, like, I attach that to him. Like, me becoming the man that I'm continually trying to fight and trying to become every day, it's a constant battle, you know what I'm saying? Because you I've dealt with before this 27 years, 26 years of trauma, you know what I'm saying? I just left the COVID or left under the carpet. But it's like, I can't leave. I gotta open that stuff. I got into therapy. Like, I gotta change these.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

Okay. How important is my word to me? How important is all it is to me? Because I'm like, it has to be something that my son has substance to. Because there's a lot of kids out here who don't have a dads, who don't have a pops. And like, they lost.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

So lost. And if my. And teach my son a certain way how to carry himself, those kids that. That's lost out there, that's without it, maybe my son could be the one that can give him a lending hand to know I'm in it with you and we can figure it out. But that's my job. I gotta. I gotta instill and teach him them certain things so that he can have everything that he needs, all the tools that he need to be able to help somebody else. Cause I believe that this life that we live, it ain't just for us.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

No.

[Deebo Samuel]

We gotta give. And I'm like, you gotta, got to.

[Joe]

You tool up your kids, man.

[Deebo Samuel]

That's what it is.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah, that was that, that was. That was One of the. The biggest things that. That changed for me was like, you know what? It's no longer about me, you know?

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like, yeah, bro, look here, brother. We wanna. We go jump into these little. Little super chats we got here, man. But we definitely want to. No, they ain't even saying nothing good. We go. Keep going, Joe. We go. Keep going. What you training today, bro?

[Deebo Samuel]

Oh, today is upper. I think we got. We got push, pull, then we got. Like I said, Danny Ball.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Danny Ball. Danny, tell them what Danny Ball is.

[Joe]

That's what I'm like. Y' all talking Danny Ball?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I thought I was like, yo, don't know Danny Ball. He gonna go out there and get his ass laced up.

[Joe]

Stop saying I'm victim weight, man.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Man, is anything under 200?

[Deebo Samuel]

200, yes, for sure. We got somebody who under 200 that's elite, though. Like Jordan Clark. He's under 200, but he's like that.

[Joe]

See, there we go. I 185.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

You ain't Jordan. Jordan was raised up on this.

[Karen and Georgia]

He was.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

He was acting like I wasn't like that. Daddy. His daddy, he is in his jeans. He had no choice.

[Deebo Samuel]

Now, Danny ball is just. It's a variation of just trying to change the tempo of explosion. Being able to stop force that's coming at you, and you being able to regenerate and push the force back to the opposite side. It's like a variation of volleyball, but

[Malcolm Gladwell]

you.

[Deebo Samuel]

You can't pass it to anybody. It is a uber ball that you can pass and stuff.

[Joe]

But is it med balls? Yes.

[Deebo Samuel]

Med ball.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Med ball. Ten pound. Med ball, Joe.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Deebo Samuel]

Pound. Med ball. You can catch it and regress by landing and then throwing it. You can. You can dunk that hole, but you. You can only take one step.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And, like, if you want to dunk, what you got to do is you got to jump, grab it in the air, and as you come down, you can hit the ground and then jump up.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, you can't. You can't. You can't catch it, take a step, and then drop it. Nope, it's all continuous. You can only score on your serve. Game go to 11. Unless you get seven, though.

[Joe]

And it is one on one.

[Deebo Samuel]

That was two.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Two on two.

[Joe]

Two on two. Okay.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

All these people that's playing with five and six people on each side, they

[Joe]

ain't doing no work.

[Tab Ramos]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

Two.

[Tony Yayo]

Two.

[Deebo Samuel]

And it's typically like they try to target the one who's not the best. They try to go after them.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Joe. If you come out there, Joe, I'M getting all of that ball. It's gonna be about 110, 115. Okay? And we are going to throw this ball high and deep at you. So you gotta play deep to short. If you try and play that short to deep, you are going to yourself crashed out with your face in the sand because you go, go to try and catch the ball, and you ain't gonna have that weight.

[Joe]

And it's going, wait, Bam. It's gonna take you down.

[Deebo Samuel]

I'm telling you. It's good for conditioning. Like, I've been. I've been here for four years now, and it's been. Every time I go back to camp, I feel like, great. And it's the best shape I've been in my life right now. So it's good for you. You should come.

[Tony Yayo]

What?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What. What got you over into pep, man? What. What led you over that way, man?

[Deebo Samuel]

Nah. Funny thing is, my agent, My agent knew somebody who knew somebody. And I never told nobody this, bro, but, like, when I seen Joe clips, I'm like, this over here. Like, I want to be over there. Like, he. I kind of, like, looked at your story, like, how everything was going the whole. Like, I'm like, damn, bro. Like, he did this. Like, I wanna. You know, I'm saying. And then I got here and I trained with Ian one time. I'm like, bro, this dog work. And I'm like, it ain't about people in here. Like, I'm like, all right, let me just try it. I tried it my first year. Got to Detroit, had the best year of my career.

[Tony Yayo]

And yeah, this is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Yayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rents going up, streaming services are going up, Even your favorite burrito spot selling think salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will this go up soon?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Game.

[Tony Yayo]

Because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s, and when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

Imagine yourself in a vehicle from Hyundai's bold EV lineup. Perhaps you're commuting to work in an Ioniq 5 with everything you've been yearning for in your next EV, including tech infused safety features like Highway Driving Assist 2 and Blind Spot Collision Avoidance Assist. Or imagine you're hitting the track in the Ioniq 5N going 0-60mph in a blistering 3.25 seconds with Engrin Boost engaged. Or perhaps imagine you and all your friends are rotating road tripping to Vegas in the Ioniq 9 with its class leading interior space and available third row seating. There's room for the whole crew.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm feeling lucky.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

Yes, and of course they're all backed by America's best warranty and a 10 year or 100,000 mile limited electric battery warranty. No matter which Hyundai EV you choose, you've chosen well. Learn more about Hyundai EVs at HyundaiUSA.com call 562-314-4603 for complete details. See your Hyundai dealer for limited warranty details. America's best warranty claim based on total package of warranty programs. See Dealer for limited warranty details. See your Hyundai dealer for further details and limitations.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from inside American Soccer and this summer topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game and at more than 60 locations. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Alon Cohen who heads research and development at ufc. He shared how AI puts action into context. Insights Engine is not Here to feel technical. That's the genius of it. It's simplicity. It's narrative. We are bringing it to a place where you feel like you could even have an opinion because you understand enough of what's going on. Learn [e-mail] UFC are you really buying

[Karen and Georgia]

a car online on autotrader right now? Really? At a playground? Yeah. Really? Look at these listings from dealers. Wow. Your search can really get that specific. Really? And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget. Mom needs a second. Honey. You can really have it delivered. Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car. Mommy, I think your kid is walking up the slide.

[Tony Yayo]

Kyle.

[Karen and Georgia]

Again? Really? Auto trader. Buy your car online. Really?

[Deebo Samuel]

Done for ever since been back here every after every season, and then right before camp, I've been here. He's the smartest.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Point blank period. I. I tell people this. If I had got within sooner, I wouldn't have had not one surgery I had because everything is based off muscle imbalances. And if you fix that imbalance, you fix the issue.

[Deebo Samuel]

Okay. When do you end up.

[Joe]

How long. How long in your career you end up going to him?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Debo, I was within my last 10 years.

[Joe]

Okay?

[Deebo Samuel]

He said, Last 10 years.

[Joe]

Last 10 years.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm like, God, dude, I listen. So. So Ian. Yeah, I did. I did 16. 15 credit. 16. So Ian worked on me during the 2009. 10 season. 2010 season. Right before they locked us out. My back was jacked up. So he was doing soft tissue work to get my back straight. So I would have two. I had two herniated discs. So he was doing soft tissue work so I can make it through the season. So at the end of that season, we ended up losing the super bowl to Green Bay. So I played 14 weeks where. Three weeks where I was Saturday getting the epidural to playing the game on Sunday.

[Deebo Samuel]

God damn.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like, come and get me at the crib because I can't get out the bed. You know what I'm saying? So when I got done with that, my rehab I did with in because they locked us out. That was the best thing that ever happened to me in life. Everybody else that had that done, nobody played more than two years after that, bro.

[Joe]

Damn.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I played an additional eight. Nine.

[Deebo Samuel]

Oh, yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like it.

[Joe]

That's that work, dude.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

His. His knowledge and understanding of the body mechanics and how to Mitch and mix and match things so that you can optimum optimize what it is that you need to work on. It's not a for everybody. What demo do, I don't do, I may not do. I may do it. It just depends. And it may be cycles of things where you may do certain things that are combined with something else. Like he may have a workout that's combined like a, a double set that's combined with squats and then something else. Mine may be squats and something else different than it is his. It's just all depending on what your. What you need is. And it's. It's actually just catered to you personally, so they do muscle testing and everything to figure out what's going on, what's wrong. And then he'll go and, and do whatever it is that you need to do to fix, improve, and, and, and do. It's nothing like it.

[Deebo Samuel]

But it ain't like.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like he said, you gotta be a dog. You gotta be ready to work. This ain't for nobody that don't want to work.

[Joe]

And he heard, he said, come in

[Malcolm Gladwell]

here and you go be the, the cat that's gonna come high flashing and all that. No, you go get put down.

[Joe]

He said it's not like, don't matter about how many people in there. It matter about what type of work we putting in, period.

[Deebo Samuel]

It's a dungeon for real, bro. Like this. I love it so much because it's like before, you know, windows, before training camp, before the first day of pass the night before you get your mind right. Like every morning that I wake up to come in this gym, I'm getting my mind right. Like, this ain't no that I could just come in here. I'm like, you might die that day trying to do that.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, bro, listen, he ain't. Bro, I'm out there playing Danny Ball, bro. I don't realize what's going on, but I'm getting cold. I'm freezing. It's 100, it's 113. I'm having a. I'm about to have a heat stroke.

[Deebo Samuel]

Oh my God.

[Joe]

Your body's taking like.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

They like, bro, get under the water. I'm like, dude, I'm freezer. And they like, no, dude, get under the water. Like, we didn't want to stop. I ain't want to stop playing. So we playing D. Like he said, bro, we're there. It was a two, two hour game.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, I remember him telling me about that game too. Oh my God. That. That's how you know it's two groups

[Joe]

of two sets of dolls, two sets of dogs. Nobody Dropping the ball, nobody losing those

[Deebo Samuel]

steps, sending it back.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Right.

[Deebo Samuel]

I don't think I played like an hour and 10 minutes, and that drugged me, and that was. We only played two games that day because of that game, dude.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[Deebo Samuel]

It's.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And you probably. You trying to play the best of three every time. Like, you may. Like I said, you may get in there and mess around and have a game that's 10 minutes because you don't skunked them.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Next game, you could mess around and be in there an hour and a half and still ain't done.

[Deebo Samuel]

And it'd be five, four, maybe the battle of wheels. You can start off hot, bruh, and you get skunked, but it's gonna. All right, we. We got a series now.

[Joe]

We got a series. We ain't going nowhere.

[Deebo Samuel]

We're gonna play again.

[Joe]

Hour 30 is crazy work.

[Deebo Samuel]

And it's. You don't believe, like, time just be going. And the ball just going back and forth. Ain't nobody miss. Like, but the moment that somebody take that little. That one toss and it. And they put you at the front of the net and they. In the middle of the court. Oh, yeah, you strike. You strike.

[Joe]

Launch it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

No, listen, you got. You got it. Like, you gonna have to throw deep. You might get 10, 15 throws deep before you even try and throw one short.

[Joe]

Okay. Okay.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Because I gotta tire you out. Like, dude, you got stuck. Dude, I had one where I actually. I don't know how the hell I did it. I caught the ball down here and was able somehow to get it back up and throw it over.

[Deebo Samuel]

I heard about that.

[Joe]

Did you? Just because you stood with one hand.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

No, dude, I got so lucky. I got the video. I'll show you the video, dude. I got. Look, I don't know how the hell I did that.

[Joe]

You be doing strong man all the time, Debo. That's how.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, people, you should do that. Strong man competition.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hell, no, man.

[Deebo Samuel]

I think you would kill that.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm too old for that, bro.

[Joe]

I came.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, I' ma come out there and I'm gonna help you. And I'm gonna do some pass rushing on that and all that. That's it, bro. That's it. I give you some pass pro. Like, you know, I'll let you do that. That's it, bro.

[Deebo Samuel]

I can't.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Dude, you know those strong man dudes. Them. Them dudes is 500 pounds. Thor. That boy 456. 8.

[Deebo Samuel]

What's other cat? Brian Ryan. Yes.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What's the Name? Dude, I ain't even weighing enough to get to their level.

[Joe]

You victim weights to them, Debo.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Victim weight.

[Deebo Samuel]

You victim weight, bro.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm victim weight. Until you hit four, you ain't even on a level, bro. Most of them boys at least four to 425.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah, they big as hell.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

You seen Brian Shaw?

[Deebo Samuel]

I feel like you though.

[Joe]

Yes. He had a documentary that just dropped.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I just watched that. Lord Jimmy Christmas, buddy. Man. Let's hit these super chats. Get him out of there real quick, man.

[Joe]

Covered it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Look here, man. What is the Pokemon cars pulled $2. What is that simple?

[Joe]

I don't know Depot.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

No Heinz war stories or experiences. What is he talking about? I don't think he know what he's talking about. We got AB228999 $5. Why Hammer Soresby and shut him out for gambling when hunting, mixing played after several dv. DV is much worse and should be punished far harsher than betting. It should it. It should be punished far, far more harsher than betting and all that. That's up to the person's opinion and the dv. I don't. I don't know what happened on the issues or situations, but didn't what's his name get totally kicked out the league? Huh? I mean, not Hunt. What's his name?

[Joe]

Ray Rice.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah, Ray Rice.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah.

[Deebo Samuel]

He got booed.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Let's go. Lisa Lynch. 191 $20. She said can you two do a live game since James has more control of himself. No, no. We can't do a lot. Lisa. We can't do a live game. We are coming to training camp. We can't do a live game. Joe, tell them how. How I crash out. Joe,

[Joe]

you quick to react during the games. You way too too quick to react. You got to sit down and watch re.

[Deebo Samuel]

Watch it right?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Tell them, Joe. I'm liable. Hey, I ain't liable. I'm going to say something.

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I did one with Ben. Look at the one I did with Ben.

[Deebo Samuel]

I'mma peeping.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

It was cool because I was. I wasn't saying nothing. You kept it close yourself. I ain't gonna say nothing. If we do it, I ain't go. I ain't gonna be my normal self. I ain't gonna lie to y', all, man.

[Joe]

Then it's not gonna be fun.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Helsinki. $2. Thank you for Heo Santi. Sorry. $2. Thank you for contributing to our entertainment. Now we got Covenant Life. Covenant Life is back. $19. We said. She said when the Steelers. $20. Sorry about that. She said when the Steelers. When you see the Steelers on the schedule, does it change your mindset? Knowing it's usually a physical four quarter battle. Is there a Steelers defender you're especially excited to come up against this season? This is for you, Demo. December 6th, Sunday Night Football. You coming over here to Pittsburgh. I've been trying to tell them. They don't want to listen to me.

[Deebo Samuel]

That's fine.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Worried it's fine.

[Deebo Samuel]

Like, to be honest, I don't even know we play this year. See, I just.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I mean, Sunday Night Football, you just know.

[Joe]

You got 17 games of tote. I got all that matters. Somebody's gonna get toted on. That's what you saying, Debo.

[Deebo Samuel]

I gotta play them anyway. It don't matter when we play them.

[Joe]

You hear him, Debo? Listen, he sound like you. You be saying it don't matter. You'll be knowing what the schedule.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

It don't matter if you. You play.

[Joe]

Hey, that's the energy I'm getting from my dog.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, get yourself together. Make sure you tell Ian that you gotta play the Pittsburgh Steelers. That way he go ahead and give you a little ext him to let you know we ain't playing no games. I tell them we let him know.

[Deebo Samuel]

Let him know.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, physical, you run hard, you downhill, you all that. You know what we gonna do? We gonna have to test that out and see.

[Deebo Samuel]

Let's do it.

[Joe]

Let's see. It's gonna be dang cd. But why you had to come?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, what you talking about? He on the other side now. All that nice is over with. He on the other side. Now we talking football.

[Joe]

That's my brother in Christ.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We got, we got. I told you. Hey, listen, I'm fighting. I'm fighting. I'm fighting the devil daily, okay? Sometimes it's within minutes.

[Deebo Samuel]

Okay?

[Joe]

Yes.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Last one is Covenant Life. What'd you say?

[Deebo Samuel]

I said you ain't playing. That's the thing. Why you want to make it bad for everybody else?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I suit up. I thought I come out retirement, I suit up for him. Listen. Oh, you gonna make it bad. You talking disrespectful. Clip that. He said you gonna make it bad for everybody. Y' all clip that. Whoa, whoa.

[Karen and Georgia]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Debo Emo is still playing.

[Deebo Samuel]

I'm still playing.

[Joe]

He's still playing. People writing out checks.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

People writing out checks. It's my bank account.

[Joe]

I know, my ass.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I put money in there.

[Joe]

I'm not tackling that man right now.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Better call for joy for the Junior, listen. No, I ain't gonna put little PC up on that.

[Joe]

Don't put a piece. We're going to put TJ or Cam or something, because I. I know I can't do it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I can put you down something. Yeah. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. 185.

[Joe]

185.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, hey, hey, hey. That boy run hard, man. That boy run hard. Hey, listen, I'm trying to tell you now. He hit two. He run hard now. And that boy. Hey, he dead. He deadlift like £700 now. £700.

[Deebo Samuel]

705.

[Joe]

1505.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Look here, man, I got Covenant Life right here. She said you're re your 20. Your reunion with your sister before your hometown game was incredible, was incredibly moving. How has her courage changed the way you approach life in football? I love your poet, your poem, and your voice is needed for those troubled NFL players. That's for you.

[Deebo Samuel]

First of all, I appreciate you for those kind words. But my sister, that's really the star, she the rock star. So, I mean, most people know, two years ago, about two. Two years removed, the day before Valentine's Day, my sister got a real bad car accident. And she's paralyzed now from her neck down, but she's working her way into, like, being able to use her limbs and stuff again. But like, she. She said her heart so full and like, she love everybody around her, so, like, this is just. She benefited her whole life. So it's unfortunate that it happened, but it ain't stopping up. My sister got going on. That's my baby. So she good?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

For sure. For sure. We got Covenant life back again. $5. She said, Demo. How would you handle Debo if he was still in them pads?

[Joe]

Wow.

[Deebo Samuel]

I guess the world may never know.

[Joe]

Straight up.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Beautiful. Beautiful, man. She saw. She wanted to bring out the terrible talk. Hey, listen, man. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Emo. Look here, look here, look here. Hey, hey, look here.

[Karen and Georgia]

Why?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

This is what you gonna be seeing. Why? You understand that, right?

[Deebo Samuel]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hold on. I ain't done yet.

[Joe]

Damn, Debo. He biting checks. It's not. It's Debo. Don't, don't.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, listen.

[Joe]

Don't worry about it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We still gotta get it off.

[Joe]

You gotta let him get it off.

[Deebo Samuel]

Let him get off.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

50 years of doing whatever it is we 58. What you talking about? And I got the black one. And I got the black one. Listen, listen. This all you gonna see.

[Joe]

You standing on business.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

All you gonna see demo.

[Tab Ramos]

Yep.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, December 6th, this is all you go see. You understand? Hold up, hold up.

[Joe]

End it with disrespect. You understand that?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen, listen, I'm trying to tell you, D. Listen. Black and yellow. Oh, look. Hall of Fame. You see who that is right there? Dick LeBeau, 2010 hall of Fame.

[Joe]

Stop.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What we playing. That's all we do.

[Deebo Samuel]

You don't need that many times to wipe your ass now.

[Karen and Georgia]

Oh,

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Some of my. You young, dirty.

[Deebo Samuel]

You don't need that many.

[Joe]

You don't need that, boy. Say you got one ass. That.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What he said, one. Man, listen.

[Joe]

Come on, man.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I got the last one for you. I got the last one for you right here, though. This is the hardest one.

[Deebo Samuel]

I can't take nothing from that. I respect everything about that one real one.

[Joe]

Okay?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hey, Joe. With your trophies,

[Deebo Samuel]

I respect that. I gotta get mine now. I ain't got it.

[Joe]

We respect that, Debo.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Oh, I keep forgetting, Joe. I keep forgetting.

[Tony Yayo]

Damn it.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

My bad. Hey, Demo, man, listen, man, we really appreciate you coming on with us, man. Enjoyed the conversation, man. I hope you have a. A beautiful. A great season. Healthy season, man. God continues to bless you, man, and watch over you. Except for when you play against us on December 6th. I get you. You get 15 yards on 15 carries. That'll be enough.

[Deebo Samuel]

I appreciate y' all for having me here, man. For real.

[Joe]

No doubt, man. Appreciate you, man. Always all love Demo.

[Deebo Samuel]

All right, y'. All, boy, be good.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Sure. For sure. Hey, guys, we want to thank y' all for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe. Please make sure you, like, subscribe and download where you get your show. Joe.

[Joe]

Yo, appreciate y' all for logging in today, man. Had a great show. Demo. We will see y' all on Friday.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

We out.

[Karen and Georgia]

Hi, it's Karen and Georgia from My Favorite Murder. We cruised around LA in the Hyundai Ionic 5 and dove into the fascinating life of actress and inventor Hedy Lamar.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Want the full story?

[Karen and Georgia]

Take a listen. She starts dating Howard Hughes, and in fact, she helps him design a faster plane. So she finds the fastest bird and the fastest fish and sketches out a drawing of what the two would look like as a plane. And that becomes the plane that we know today. And he calls her a genius. Check out our new episode spotlighting groundbreaking innovators like Hedy and Lamar and Billie Jean King, presented by the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Goodbye.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from Inside American Soccer. And this summer, topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group exclusive food and drink items. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass, which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] funpass your little one

[Malcolm Gladwell]

grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses

[Malcolm Gladwell]

to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow and he's

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Consider your future growth Bird budget secured.

[Hyundai EV Announcer]

Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

See website for details.

[Karen and Georgia]

Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now? Really? At a playground? Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers. Wow, your search can really get that specific. Really? And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget. Mom needs a second. Honey, you can really have it delivered. Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie, Mommy's buying a car. I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle. Again? Really? Autotrader? Buy your car online? Really?

[Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador]

When Kohler, global design leader and luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable cast iron, I said, I'm in. Soon after, I was in their Kohler Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron, poured, enamel applied by hand, and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artisans and seeing it firsthand gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I am proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated [e-mail] as the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live cast Iron.

[Deebo Samuel]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.