Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Dick LeBeau on Hall of Fame Playing Career, Zone Blitz Scheme & Legacy

Summary

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NIGHTCAP – DEEBO & JOE, PART 1: DICK LEBEAU ON HALL OF FAME PLAYING CAREER, ZONE BLITZ SCHEME & LEGACY

Date: April 6, 2026
Hosts: James “Deebo” Harrison & Joe Hayden
Guest: Dick LeBeau

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Episode Overview

In this captivating Nightcap episode, NFL legends James “Deebo” Harrison and Joe Hayden sit down with Hall of Famer Dick LeBeau—renowned for both his pioneering defensive schemes and a remarkable playing career. The conversation dives deep into LeBeau’s football philosophies, his origins as a player and coach, the evolution of his legendary zone blitz concepts, leadership style, and how the 2008 Steelers defense became one for the ages. Personal stories, coaching insights, and genuine reverence create an unforgettable football masterclass and mentorship session.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Dick LeBeau’s NFL Origins & Playing Career

[04:05–13:00]

• LeBeau reflects on being drafted in the 5th round in 1959 by Cleveland, then cut before he ever played a game. At the time, there were only 12 NFL teams and 31-man rosters, making for fierce competition (only 60 DBs in the entire league).
• Quote:

  “My feelings were hurt, but I did play 170 straight games… The way they cut you in those days, they called you in, ten–twelve guys at a time, then cut maybe three. I knew I was ripe on the fire.” — Dick LeBeau [06:11]

• Instead of giving up, LeBeau doubled down on his work ethic. Multiple teams called after he cleared waivers, including Baltimore and Detroit.
• He ultimately played 14 years for the Detroit Lions, becoming their all-time interception leader (62 INTs—tied for 7th in NFL history).
• Joe Hayden’s admiration:

  “62 picks—that baffles me, Coach. I had 29. Darrelle Revis had 29. Once you get near 60, there’s only about 10 guys ever.” [26:39]

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2. Not Using a Call Sheet, Studying Offenses, and Sideline Memories

[13:00–20:45]

• Deebo notes that LeBeau is “the only D coordinator I’ve ever seen not use a call sheet on the sideline.”
• LeBeau responds by sharing his intensely personal approach—he researched opposing offensive coordinators, studied tape relentlessly, and committed the game plan to memory.
• Quote:

  “I didn’t want a big long list of all our defenses… I’d have 50 blitzes ready, and I always tried to put words in the call that meant something to the line, the linebackers, and the DBs… If what you’re calling isn’t working, there ain’t no sense leaving that gun unshot. You got to pull the trigger.” — Dick LeBeau [11:14]

• Deebo:

  “We’d be on the sideline, and there’d be a defense we’d only run in training camp. Coach would pull it from his Rolodex—‘This blitz right here, go kill them. Let’s do it.’” [18:14]

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3. Installation, Memory, and Player Trust

[19:03–24:26]

• LeBeau stresses walkthroughs and mental reps over physical fatigue. “If he gave us an 8-min walkthrough, we could hit 50 plays.”
• He credited success to the intelligence and camaraderie of his defense, especially the communication between Troy Polamalu and Ryan Clark:

  “They were each godfathers to each other’s kids. Sometimes, I don’t know how they communicated—Troy would make a head nod, and Ryan would just know.” [24:26]

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4. Defensive Philosophy, Pressure, and ‘Playing Chess’

[24:53–32:24]

• LeBeau explains his philosophy: always keep the offense guessing, rely heavily on player intelligence, and play “chess” not just with the offense, but with himself—always trying to stay two moves ahead.

  “When people talk about ‘playing chess,’ Coach LeBeau is playing chess against himself…he flips it in his mind, so if it doesn’t translate, he doesn’t use it.” — Deebo [21:49]

• On the myth that his “zone blitz”/fire zone schemes wouldn’t work today:

  “The more they spread it out, the better we liked it. Thin it out inside—we’re gonna come. You might hit us, but we’re gonna get DBs that can tackle. … With you guys, we could’ve run a straight 4-3 Cover 3, and they couldn’t block you.” — Dick LeBeau [32:42]

• He chose blitzes and schemes to maximize what his players did best, not just to fit a template.

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5. The Legendary 2008 Steelers Defense & ‘Legendary’ Book

[37:22–40:04]

• LeBeau wrote Legendary to chronicle the dominance of the 2008 Steelers defense, which ranked 1st in 9 of his 11 “super critical” categories, against the toughest schedule in NFL history (by previous season win percentages).
• Quote:

  “Of my 11 key areas, they led the league in nine. No one’s ever done that. And they did it against opponents with the highest win percentages from the previous year. … Someone had to put a record of this down where people could read about it.” — Dick LeBeau [40:04]

• Each game is a chapter; the book’s intent was to honor his players.

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6. The Goal Sheet and Real Accountability

[43:16–46:24]

• The “goal sheet” was a statistical checklist of 14 defensive benchmarks, averaging top-10 NFL units from the prior year. LeBeau used it for Monday meetings after every game—real, transparent, player-driven accountability.
• Quote:

  “I didn’t want to be ripping my guys if, statistically, they were reaching the goals. I’d say—look, we need to do better here, here, and here… I spent more time talking about goals we didn’t make than the ones we did.” — Dick LeBeau [45:38]

• Deebo and Joe lament that, later, the sheet was scrapped by other coaches when it became too challenging to match the 2008 standards—something LeBeau disagreed with:

  “Can’t just throw it away because it’s not giving the results you want. … Instead of making them improve, they just stopped looking at it.” — Deebo [44:18]

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7. Coaching Style, Personalization, and Player Relationships

[50:56–52:06]

• LeBeau coached the way he wanted to be coached—showing players their flaws and strengths on film, tailoring technique to each man’s skillset.
• Quote:

  “I tried to coach the way I wanted to be coached… teach from the film. I didn’t just say, ‘You got to get better.’ I’d show why you were half a step behind. And a half step for a corner is a whole lot of yards.” — Dick LeBeau [51:00]

• Joe Hayden and Deebo both express overwhelming respect, noting the rare trust and honest communication LeBeau fostered.

  “I will follow you through a brick wall, because you get it.” — Joe Hayden [50:52]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On walking away from failure:

  “You going to go and hide in the corner? Or you going to work a little bit harder and see what you can do better?” — Dick LeBeau [07:02]

• On confusion and adaptation:

  “If you’re trying to guard everything, you’re guarding nothing.” — Joe Hayden [49:39]

• On the 2008 defense:

  “Anytime any of them is going anywhere near each other, they gonna get together.” — Dick LeBeau [39:17]

• On the joy of coaching:

  “You just call the defense and get the hell out the way, and let them go, man.” — Dick LeBeau [25:10]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & LeBeau’s Early NFL Journey: [02:15–09:23]
• Transition from Cleveland to Detroit: [09:24–13:00]
• Schematics & No Call Sheet Philosophy: [13:00–19:03]
• On Sideline Adjustments & Player Memory: [18:14–20:42]
• Troy Polamalu and Ryan Clark’s Chemistry: [24:26–25:10]
• Zone Blitz & Playing Chess: [21:49–32:24]
• On Old-School Equipment and INTs: [26:39–31:35]
• Could the Zone Blitz Work in Today’s NFL?: [32:24–34:06]
• The 2008 Steelers, ‘Legendary’, and the Goal Sheet: [37:22–44:35]
• Coaching Philosophy & Relating to Players: [50:31–52:06]

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Summary Takeaways

• LeBeau’s legacy is built on humility, intellectual rigor, and genuine player relationships.
• The episode offers a rare, deep-dive into defensive philosophy and what makes a great player-coach bond—sprinkled with stories, laughter, and lifelong lessons.
• Dick LeBeau’s methods—his stat-driven accountability, ability to improvise, unique player communication, and passion for teaching—are masterfully explained and warmly celebrated.
• If you love football, defensive innovation, or leadership, this is an essential listen.

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To learn more about Dick LeBeau’s coaching wisdom and the legendary 2008 Steelers defense, check out his book Legendary.

Transcript

[Dick LeBeau]

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[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

I'm doing great. It's gonna be a great one. We I'm gonna let you, you know what I'm saying, you go ahead pop off because I know how you feel. Let me go ahead and get out the way.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Hey y' all know we got a special guest with us today, Joe.

[Dick LeBeau]

Hey.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes we do.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

He is a national champion from the Ohio State University Buckeyes.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

He in the fifth round in 1940. 59 A cornerback for the Lions for 14 years.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes he did.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And he is also the Lions all time interceptions leader with 62. That's tied for seventh in NFL history. That's football hall of Famer.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Is the greatest D coordinator of all time. The father of the dreaded fire zone blitz zone defense coach 45 years in the NFL. Architect of the greatest defensive play in super bowl history. The immaculate interception and the pride of London, Ohio. Joe. Yes sir. Give me a hand in welcoming the great Dick LeBeau. Yes, sir. Join us baby.

[Dick LeBeau]

Good afternoon, man. It's an honor to be in the presence of of two great NFL players, man. And I had a field full of guys like you when I was coaching and that's why I'm still get around on some of these shows, man. Come on, coach me up. Finding Dandy.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Hey, coach. Hey, Coach, look here. What Joe don't understand is you was drafted in the fifth round, and that was when they had like 30 rounds back then, so that was hot. Okay?

[Dick LeBeau]

Now this is the second round. Now, it would have been the second round.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

They don't understand right here. Coaches, look here, Coach, Let me say this for him, coach. If I'm not mistaken, 1959, you was drafted by the Cleveland.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And they cut you, is that right?

[Dick LeBeau]

Coach, they sliced me right out down the road, man.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Cleveland been fucking up since 1959.

[Joe Hayden]

I promise you. I saw that he was drafted to Cleveland. I'm like, how did Coach LeBeau end up playing for Detroit then? And it says you got cut, Coach LeBeau. What happened there? Was it. Did you. Did you. Were you hurt? Were you injured? I know you. You never are hurt.

[Dick LeBeau]

My feelings were hurt, but I did play 170 straight games. But one thing that I'm always quick to point out, There were only 12 teams in the league, okay? And the roster size was 31 players, so there were only five DBs on everybody's roster, okay? That meant that there was actually 60 guys in the world that were making any money playing defensive back, okay? And to be the last guy cut in when there's only 60 guys in the world playing the position, I didn't feel too good about it. I'll tell you what, man, it was the first time anybody ever said to me, athletically, you're not good enough. Yes, sure, I said. I drove my car up to the training camp as a little town called Hiram, Ohio, and I had to. I had my car spring loaded in the opposition, man, because the way they cut you in those days, they called you in, they call in about 12 guys and then they cut maybe three. But they started calling me in about three or four times before the final cut, you know, So I knew that I was ripe on the fire. And he's talking about tightening you up a little bit in your coverage, you know, usually, yeah, you can't let this guy get a three yard hit today. Or I'm down the road. But driving home, I never forget from. I was about, in those days, about a four and a half hour drive because there weren't any interstates because, you know, as James has already pointed out, it was 1959. And I said, well, LeBeau, you got to make your mind up here, man. Somebody then told you they didn't want you. You going to go and hide in the corner? Are you going to work a little bit harder and and get in a little better shape or just see. See what you can do better. And I wasn't ready to. To go south. And in those days, you had still. I think it's still the same way. There's a 48 hour waiting period before anybody can claim you.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[Dick LeBeau]

Or you become a free agent.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

You got to clear. Yeah.

[Dick LeBeau]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Clear waivers.

[Dick LeBeau]

Yeah. And I. I think that's still the same. But when my 48 hours were up, about four teams called me and said, we'd like you to come be on our practice squad. And I took Baltimore because they were. They were the closest team that called me, except for Detroit. And I had a good buddy of mine, Howard Hopalong Cassidy, who won the Heisman trophy in college. And Hoppy was in about his. I see. I think I was a freshman his senior year, and I called him up and I said, what's it look like on the defensive back situation up there in Detroit?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Dick LeBeau]

Oh, he said, dick, they're young and they're good. We really got great defensive backs. And I said, well, I said, they calling me about coming up there and being on the practice squad. Oh. He said, I don't know, Dick. So I said, well, Baltimore was a defending world champion at that time. So I said, I got a chance to go with the best. So I go to Baltimore. I went over there, but it ended up. I went right straight to Cleveland and. Excuse me, I went. I went to Detroit.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Detroit.

[Dick LeBeau]

And that. I was asking. Hopping about the DBs at Detroit, and I had to. It's a long time ago, man. I gotta get.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, that's all right.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

That's all right. Coach, coach, coach. I've been telling Joe that you are the only D coordinator that I ever seen not use a call sheet on the sideline. How were you able to do that and be successful?

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, the way I call defenses, I researched my history with every. I looked up and found out who was calling the offense for the people we were playing that week. And, you know, if they were in your. Your division, you. You knew how much. What he was going to call and what he liked and stuff like that. But I would. I would get a hold of every film. I could get a hold of the guy that I was going up against. And I didn't want to. I didn't want to have a great big long list of. Of all our defense. We had 50 blitzes. And you would enjoy that, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, for sure.

[Dick LeBeau]

Of course. Corner. All he. All he got to worry about is just who I got, you know, who I got.

[Joe Hayden]

And please get after the quarterback, make sure the ball come out fast.

[Dick LeBeau]

So I would familiarize myself for that game. I tried to prepare for the game like I asked you guys to, James, and you guys always did a great job of studying everything that we gave you that week. And I had a knowledge of what I wanted to do against the team we were playing and that I was very constantly. I was like shooting pool. It don't do you any good to make the ball you're shooting at right now. If you can't have a shot on the next ball. Yes, turn the table over to the other guy to make one ball. So I was always thinking, what. What if what happens in this down is going to control what I do on the next down? And I didn't need a call sheet for that because every now and then with. With 50 blitzes, I would forget what we called some of them, so I'd have to have of them. But I always tried, and you remember this, James. I always tried to put the words in the call that meant something to you guys. One word meant something to the line. 1. One meant something to the linebackers, and one meant something to the DBs and the coverage rotation, things of that nature. And that way I could carry so many blitzes because I didn't want to ever get caught. One of my early days of coaching, and we'd lose one in the fourth quarter, a tough game, you know, you ain't gonna sleep. And I think, why the hell did I do that? You know, why didn't I do this? And I. I didn't want to have that night where you said I should have done this or I should have done that. You want to have your alternative ideas ready to go right there on Sunday afternoon, because when what you're calling is not working, there ain't no sense leaving that gun unshot. So you got to pull the trigger. And I just start calling different stuff. And I would have that pre thought the week that we were going into the game. So I didn't need a call sheet because I wasn't exactly sure what was going to come, what I was going to call the next day. And. And my experience playing helped me a lot in that because the. I was blessed with a good memory, and I remembered mistakes that I made, and I remembered some stuff that we did that was successful. And I said, well, if. If that's not working, let's go to this. And it wasn't like getting one of the magic eight balls, you know, and shaking. And you say oh, hey, let's try three. 200. You know, you. You have to have a rhyme or a reason. No, the reason that. That I came to that chain of thought I could sleep with that. That I knew that I had prepared myself as much as humanly possible. There's only 24 hours in the day.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yes.

[Dick LeBeau]

But I didn't just sit there and say, oh, well, why didn't I do this? I was going to do it. So, yeah, listen, so whatever coach I was.

[Joe Hayden]

That makes so much sense.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Joe. We would be on the sideline, bro, and it'd be a defense that we had did in training camp.

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[Dick LeBeau]

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[Dick LeBeau]

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[Dick LeBeau]

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[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And coach would come to the sideline and he'd be just sitting there on the side and he'd look and he'd be like, okay, he'll come to the sideline. Get everybody together. Hey, y' all remember that defense we ran in training camp? Everybody be like, okay, yeah, we remember about to run that. We may not have it. Ran that for three, four, five, six weeks. But he come and it already be in this rolodex and we ain't did it since training camp. And he like, oh, this right here, this blitz. Go kill him. Let's do this.

[Joe Hayden]

That's not having a.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

He ain't using no analytics.

[Joe Hayden]

No, for sure.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

He's using what he done learned and

[Joe Hayden]

saw you saying the memory and playing in the game and not already having a preconceived plan. Like I'm going to run this regardless knowing if they do this, I have this bullet in the chamber. Let's go back to this. Like not having it. I love that. I love that thought process.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And you got to realize coach. Coach is so smart.

[Dick LeBeau]

We are going to attack you. Yes. That's why I carry so many blitzes and these guys had to learn them. But. But I utilize fully walk through period. And I would continually go to to Bill and Mike, my bosses and say, give me a little more walkthrough time. And, and for a situation like that. I didn't like to call a defense that we hadn't run for a while, but James is absolutely correct. It was something that we had done somewhere. But I would walk through, walk through, walk through. And guys didn't have to take but three steps to show me that they knew what, what I was calling.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Dick LeBeau]

And, and that way we could, you know, if he gave us a, you know, eight minute walkthrough, we could hit 50 plays. The guys didn't have to go ahead and rush all the way through and everything like that. Secondary would rotate and show me they knew what they had. And then the line would work their blitz pattern in with the linebackers and the backers would go to their coverage. And that was something that we almost didn't run without at least walking through it. I love to walk through because we could hit so many different things. But James is totally correct when there's a couple of times that I was saying that, you remember when we play in Baltimore and, and, but I was blessed not only with the best athletes, but they were smart, all of them, and they, and they worked together and they knew that if it, if it blew up, I was going to take the blame anyhow if I was throwing something on them that they hadn't done for a while.

[Joe Hayden]

And that's what great coaches do, Coach.

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, we were a group that we shared success and we shared failures.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

That's, that's, that's 100 true, man. He would, he would call a defense and he'd be like, okay, hey, I'm calling this right here. This is where the weakness is at. If they hit it, it's on me. Tackle the catch, they may get 10, 12 yards. And that was, you know, that was, that's a loss to us. You know what I'm saying? That's a loss to us. But dude, Coach LeBeau is so smart that when people talk about, oh, we, we playing chess, Coach LeBeau is playing chess. He's playing chess against himself because he's sitting over there and he's saying, as a decoordinator, if I do this, I have to know all aspects of what this dude would do. So now he flips to the other side and says, this is how I would attack that. So in return, he comes back to the other side. He's playing chess against himself. So if at some point the defense that he's putting in or thinking about putting in doesn't translate out to that, it's going to be something that's successful. He doesn't use it, you know. So I'm assuming, Coach, that you've watched the Steelers over the last couple years, the defense, I watch them.

[Dick LeBeau]

I root for him every time I tee it up, pal.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

How much of that defense can you recognize from watching it be played as far as scheme and responsibilities of defenders? Because I was telling Joe, dude, I don't know what I'm looking at right now. Like, I'm thinking that this guy should be here, that guy should be there, and it's something totally different.

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, I'd been gone for. For quite a while and, you know, things are going to change and that it changed when you was talking about playing chess and checkers and everything like that. Yeah, there's a chain of thought that I tried to apply, you know, against who I was calling against. And if he did this, I would say he was a simpleton. But if he was doing this thinking because I was going to do that, he would be once removed from a simpleton. But if he then did that because he thought I was going to do that and he did that and then I did that. We were twice removed from the simpleton. So we were simpleton each other. Well, back and forth for 60 minutes, but that was the fun of playing. That's one of the things that you miss most when you get out of the game. I miss the games a lot. And the only thing that I miss more than the games is I miss the players. I miss the sessions that we're having right here. Because you've both been down the same road and you both have paid the same price. And there's. There's a silent law between players. I mean, one look could tell you everything that he knows exactly what was happening and what you're thinking. And when we. When you get real good and you can keep the same group together for several years, you have the best of all worlds and you can do the things that we did that James was alluding to. We could adjust quicker than most teams because I just say one or two things and if there was any questions, they. They would work it out. I knew. I knew they knew what to do. And you know, when you had Troy, sometimes he was better off with him just going wherever the hell wanted to go in. So it worked out for us because we had Ryan Clark playing with Troy, Brian Clark. He should get two of the shoes that Troy got for going into the hall of Fame. Because wherever, wherever Troy went, Ryan was always there to fail safe him.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And they always kept communication and they

[Dick LeBeau]

were they now talking about prepper preference for a game, man. And they're each godfathers for each other's kids. I mean, they were close, and they. They would just. I don't know how they communicated sometimes because I watched them and it wasn't verbally, I guarantee you, that Troy would go like this and Ryan would go like.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, it was a little head mouth.

[Dick LeBeau]

Coaches be calling me in the offseason, say, dick, how you do that with. With. With Troy when. When you don't have this going in behind it. And I said, well, I don't know.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Ryan already know. Troy get a head knot. I see something cover everything back there.

[Dick LeBeau]

Yeah, yeah, but. But we. We had the best of all worlds because we had James and Woodley outside, and they were my bookends, man. And you. You couldn't get away from them. And we had Casey Hampton in the middle. You couldn't block him. And at Footdog and. And James Ferrier, they always knew where the hell the ball was going before they snapped it. And one of them guys or Ryan and. And Troy, who was in the middle of field, they were going to get to whatever was left to clean up. There wasn't much left because Aaron Smith and Brett Kiesel, they weren't blocking them the line. It was fun to coach, man, because you just call the defense and get the hell out of the way and let them go, man.

[Joe Hayden]

I love it, Deebo, Everything that you saying, dosable, Bo. I can feel the love right now. I'm fortunate that I unfortunately didn't get to play for you. But just the way that you're talking now, the way that Deebo speaks about you, the way that every player that ever played for you speaks about you, it just says everything. And I could feel it right now. Like, I wish I was able to play for you. But I'm going to say your coaching thing, amazing. I'm so impressed by your football career that you played. And I think that's what's also so relatable, because you did 14 years. You played 171 consecutive games in a row. The longevity at corner, like, and that's the position I played.

[Dick LeBeau]

And you.

[Joe Hayden]

62 picks is not a game. I had 29 picks. Darrell Revis had 29 picks. Once you get to the number, like, 60s, there's only 10 players in NFL history that have 60 career picks. So I played corner. I know how hard that is. When I'm looking at you, I'm like, how did you get 62 picks? And do you have, like, any of the most memorable ones. But the, the 62 career picks for me, I just, I, I'm. It's. It baffles me, coach.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Hey, they weren't even throwing like that back then, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

62. I'm not.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

That's three times a game, Coach. They.

[Dick LeBeau]

They didn't throw much more than 15 or 16 times a game. Back in those days, everybody was two tight ends or hardly any wide receivers, one or two wide receivers in every formation. And it was, it was more of a ground game. And you had to take advantage of the situations when you had teams where they had to throw, and that's where you're going to get your picks. And we, we had. I played on great defenses, played for the Detroit Lions all 14 years of my career, and we really had good pressure. That's why I was a pressure coach. I saw the results that the only, the only way you're going to affect that quarterback, you got to make him say, ooh, this ain't practice now.

[Joe Hayden]

You got to make them feel it.

[Dick LeBeau]

This ain't what they were doing on the practice field when they were showing us what this defense was going to be. The first thing I would tell our guys is, we're going to try to balance up this playing table and level the odds a little bit. Instead of us having to worry about where they going all the time, they're going to have to worry about where we going. Yes, I said, you have to spend some extra time learning some stuff. But we ain't going to. Wherever we are, pre snap ain't where we're going to be after they snap it. And sometimes we're going to be behind a step or two. I'm going to take the blame for that, I said, because I don't want the quarterback to know what we're doing.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Read the mail.

[Dick LeBeau]

Because if you tell a quarterback what you're in, National Football League, it's over, man. And that's the way we worked. But I was lucky playing that. I always had a good front seven in front of us to get some pressure on the quarterback and then. But you gotta. You gotta be a decent athlete to pick off.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on. Yes.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Don't. Don't short yourself now.

[Dick LeBeau]

Let me tell you something, though, Joe. If I'd have caught as many as I dropped, hell, I'd have went by Night Train in my third year playing. People said, well, you must have great hands. No, you know, after. Well, let me ask you this. After about how many tackles you make? 500 tackles. So, you know, your hands are all beat up anyhow. Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

No, you're right.

[Dick LeBeau]

That you would normally catch. It ain't the same. Yep. And you. We were playing in Chicago, and we were playing in Minnesota, and we were playing outdoors. There weren't any indoor stadiums, and after that season, man, your hands were freezing anyhow, so. But. But you had the. The. The flip side of that was the receiver, he had to catch the same weather conditions and everything. Yeah.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

But he wouldn't have to tackle nobody all. All season long. So. Yeah, he had.

[Joe Hayden]

He had a little bit.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

He had a little bit easier. Of course, back then, y' all could. Y' all could really hit him then

[Joe Hayden]

you could really hate.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And, you know, he played in the leather helmet. Did he even have any cushion in the.

[Dick LeBeau]

Coach.

[Joe Hayden]

See, that's crazy.

[Dick LeBeau]

I. I see some of them helmets we wore, but it was what they called a suspension helmet, you know, and actually, it wouldn't have done any good for them to give me a helmet like they wearing today anyhow, because I couldn't. You had to run chase these guys all over the field, man. I wanted the lightest thing I could get. That's what I. I got a little foam rubber and cut it for my thigh guards. I didn't wear no pants, man.

[Joe Hayden]

And usually you're a real db. We don't want. No, no. No pads. No way.

[Dick LeBeau]

I like that when. When artificial turf came in and it was. It was like playing on cement with a little linoleum floor over it or something. But I loved it because you were never going to trip. You were never going to. Because we spend half. Half the day backpedaling, you know?

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yes.

[Dick LeBeau]

And I said this. How can you beat this, man? This is like covering some dude in your front room.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

I like that.

[Joe Hayden]

That's how I know you're an athlete. You just wanted your footing. As long as your footing's good, you were straight.

[Dick LeBeau]

Oh, yeah. And I. I played. I played in high, high tops, man, most of the. Most of my career. Why? Because when I'm them low, low cuts, man, you could fly in them, but you get the least little bit of sprinkle on mud, you are going to stand up, man, and then slipping and you going to slide, slip and slide. And like I say, if you slipping and sliding, peeping and hiding, that wide receiver going to be sliding by you, man. So I gave up a step or two so that I could always be there. I. If I couldn't get the ball, I could get him. Yes. Get him on the ground so. So that my James Harrisons could Go sack your ass the next play. You know,

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

coach, it's, it's people today that say your your defensive scheme the way we, we did defense under your true fire zone, you know, blitz zone defense, that, that wouldn't be successful against offensive schemes today. What, what do you have to say to that? Crazy?

[Dick LeBeau]

Oh, I'd say the more they spread it out, the better we liked it, man. Thin it out inside that we're going to come now you might, you might hit us, but we're going to get DBs that can tackle and when they get you on the ground, you got to get us the next time. And do I think I, I think this James and, and no one could have a, a greater respect for the group that we had there collectively. And with you guys, hell, we could have run straight four, three, cover three and they wouldn't have done too much moving that ball because it couldn't block you. And I wrote that book just because I knew the statistics that you guys put up was so unusual. I was always a stat guy.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yes.

[Dick LeBeau]

And I, I recognized, I said this is ridiculous what what these guys are doing. Plus, the schedule that we had that year was the toughest preseason schedule from the previous year. They the way they rate difficulty of schedules is what. What did that team's record the year before.

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[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yeah.

[Dick LeBeau]

Our our record that year was the toughest one ever up till that date and that was 2008. And let me tell you something, it's now 2026 and it's still the toughest schedule that any team went into preseason playing against teams that had one loss records. And when I said with this schedule that we had and we had a good offense that could move the ball, you know, and that helps the defense too. But it was phenomenal. I said somebody got to put a record of this down where people can read about this some point in time and that's what I did with that and that's why I wrote that bit. But to do that I, I got all 19 of those games and looked at them again because I, you know, I was writing the book 15 years after when we did it and nobody, nobody could do anything against you guys. I mean, it was. It was fun to watch. You know, when you're working and going through it, you just, you focus on the game. The game's over you right away and good job. And we go to the next week and you don't have time to sit there and just relook at play after play after play of a defense that is just flat everywhere at the same time. And they had the ability, sure, they hit us some, going to hit any defense, it's a National Football league. But we always got stronger as the game went on. And that was the mark to me of a great group of athletes. And they were special. And that's why these guys, they all stick together today. Anytime any of them is going anywhere near each other, they gonna get together. Hey, yeah.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Hey, Coach, let me give people some insight what coach is talking about. Here is the book Legendary that coach wrote. We got it.

[Joe Hayden]

We got a.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

We got a picture of that, right? We could put up. Put a picture up the book of legendary.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, it's up there.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Debo, make sure. Okay, you guys, check this book out. Like coach said, it's about the 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers defense. It's matter of fact, Coach, you go ahead and tell them the whole thing behind it. You got a better, you know, you got a better under. You got a better Jill or spill of it than. Than I do. You know, me and Troy just did the forwards, that's all.

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, I had categories like I told you. I was always a stat man. And I had 11 critical areas that a defense had to compete well in to play well. All I was ever looking for as a coach was a way to evaluate a defense's performance so that when I got up in front of you guys on Monday after the game, our goal sheet, I was giving you a realistic statistic based on what was successful past, present, and probably in the future in the National Football League. And that was going to be what we had to reach those levels in order to be a successful defense. And you can't. You can't be a successful team without good offense, defense and special teams. But I was focused on defense because that's what we were all. And that's the only time we were getting on the field. And I wanted to be able to evaluate our performance so that if I was an upset coach, that I could give them statistic reasons that this is why we didn't play well, or if. If I was very happy with the performance. I wanted to be able to substantiate to them, this is why we did well, and this is why we succeeded. And in doing that, I had a collection over. I coached for 45 years, so I had a lot of defensive records. And this particular group of people in that 2008 defense, which ended up being the world champion team, they were. It was unheard of. Of my 11 key areas, they led the league in nine. No one's ever done that. No one's ever going to do it again because you can't do it. But they did it. And they did it against season opponents that had the highest percentage of wins from the previous year. It wasn't like they were playing slapjacks. They didn't play the cream of the NFL. That, to me, warranted a book. And when I always said that someone should write a book about that year, and I didn't know I was going to coach Till I was 80 years old, man. So when I got to be 80 and retired, I said, nobody ever wrote. Wrote that book. I'm going to write it. And in doing so, I went back and looked at every play of every game and took as much time as I wanted to for each game. Actually, we split it up into 19 chapters there. Each chapter, it was a game. So it's. It's a good, easy read. It's a light read for sports.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Great read. It's a must read. Y' all make sure y' all go get that book. Y' all don't want to miss it.

[Dick LeBeau]

Every book's done well. And I didn't. I didn't really care if it sold one book. I just wanted to tell the story of my guys, man, to be honest with you.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Hey, Joe, remember I was telling you about the. The gold sheet?

[Dick LeBeau]

Yes.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

You never had one, right?

[Joe Hayden]

I don't think we had a goal sheet.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Okay, so like he said it was. I thought it was 12 or 13 categories. Whatever. I thought it was 11. It's 11 categories. All right.

[Dick LeBeau]

Yeah, well, there's 14. But there was 14. Super key.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Okay. I thought it was more. Okay, so it's 14 categories.

[Dick LeBeau]

You're right, James. You're right, James.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

So it's 14 categories, and these categories are basically like, what's going to make you what it was a coach. Like a top five defense or top ten defense.

[Joe Hayden]

How.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

How was it?

[Dick LeBeau]

It was an average number from the top 10 of the previous year.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Right. So it was the average number of defense in each of the top 10, each category. So if you had the average of that, then you you obviously were going to do. Well, that sheet got thrown away in like 15, 16, because we couldn't even get. We could four or five.

[Joe Hayden]

We couldn't touch it.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

We couldn't touch it.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I think I remember that.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

It got thrown away.

[Dick LeBeau]

Yeah. They shouldn't have thrown it away.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

I know they shouldn't. Can't just throw it away because it's not giving you the results you want. These guys got to know you're doing bad. You're not doing what you need to do. You need to improve. And instead of making them improve, they said, hey, let's just get, let's stop looking at it. Yeah, and got rid of it.

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, that's the only reason that I carried them, because to say, why did the team win that game? You know, and there's. If you're, if you're a team coach, which I like to think that I was, because I wanted only team players is all I wanted to be working with. You know, that you have to execute well offensively, defensively, in special teams, it's a group effort. But as a coach who was working with a group of men who only played defense, I wanted a way to evaluate what we were doing with the other defenses in the league. And I didn't, I didn't do it to say, oh, well, we did this, but we still lost and the other, the other guys would have done.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

And we've had times where we've, we've caught a lot of goals and we've, you know, we sitting up there like he said, With 11 goals and we lost the game and we didn't. Hey, and it's still our fault because our job is to stop them from scoring and they scored.

[Dick LeBeau]

Period. Nowhere else that that's what we would stand by. But at the same time, as a coach, I didn't want to be ripping the hell out of my guys if, If I, if statistically I've given them a goal and they're, they're reaching, most of them. And I felt that's the way I coached. And I said, look, we need to do better here, here and here. I spent more time talking about goals that we didn't make then the ones that we did. But I would go over those after every game. After every game. That was the first thing we did on Monday. And fortunately with that group of guys, we were usually smiling and laughing quite a bit. James.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Yes, definitely. Definitely. What was the average if we got between 9 and 10 of the 14, it was 80 something percent win chance or something like that. What Was the coach.

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, the, the big figure on that percentage was if, if you get score a point, if you, if the defense scores a touchdown, you going to win 90% of your games if you can score on defense. And that's just, that's what I call kind of unimportant stats. But I'm a stat guy and I would, I would always stress you with stuff like that. But, but what the big thing was yards per carry, yards for row points of course is the number one thing. But if you, if you make enough, all the other stuff, they ain't going to be that many points. And I never didn't count, in my mind, I didn't count the points. If they recovered a fumble on our three yard line, you got bonus points if, if you held them to three, but if you, if they scored on that, the defense. I tried to evaluate everything from a defensive standpoint because that's what I was coaching and that's, that was the purpose of getting all those categories and that was the purpose of writing that book. Because when you see the numbers right there on the page. First, first, first, first, first. And what happened after studying a lot of years of the stats, one team would be maybe up in two or three areas, but then they may be 14th or 15th in, in yards per catch allowed, percentage of passes completed. That was always an important thing for me is how much were they getting every time they threw it. And you had to figure in sacks into that and take the negative yards off of that. And how, how effective was your past defense that game? And it was, it was a relative number that fluctuated week to week. But still there are 32 teams today and every, every week the ones that aren't on by are putting those stats out there. And you're going to have, at the end of the year, you're going to have what everybody in the league average. What was good and what was not good. And that's what I was looking for strictly when I could tell my guys, hey, we're below average in this situation. We cannot win with that. We got to get rid of that number or we're leading this thing. Keep that there. But here's where we got to get better. And that's, that's all the purpose that I had for those things. But when I got done that super critical ones, I, I say it's 11. We were number one in nine of those categories. I mean, it'll never happen again.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, you speak on it. Me and Deebo always talk about this and I think it's like you was giving them tangible results, tangible goals, like you against your contemporaries, against people in the league, and you were giving it to these guys, and you're giving them love because they had to go out and execute. You're not telling them nothing. That's impossible to do. Some things like you said, we might get hit on this play. That'll be fine. We can't guard everything. If you're trying to guard everything, you're guarding nothing. So being able to have a coach, like, knowing, okay, we're here, we might get hit on this one, get him on the ground. We're going to the next play. Because you got things that you're already playing, like the. You call it the triple back and double back that, like, y' all are playing games with the other coaches that you already know. So I wish I could have played for you, because everything is saying right now, I feel like I'm sitting at a fire pit, and I could just be listening to you talk, because we speak the same.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

Don't. Hey, don't you love.

[Joe Hayden]

Love the game?

[Dick LeBeau]

Well, we played the same. We played the same position.

[Joe Hayden]

The same position like you play. You a Cornerback, you have 62 picks. So now when I'm listening to you talking about how you approach the game, how you would set up the defenses, how you just think about ball, I'm like, I love that. That makes so much sense. Everything Deebo says makes complete sense.

[Dick LeBeau]

You.

[Joe Hayden]

I see why I will follow you through a brick wall, because you.

[James 'Deebo' Harrison]

You.

[Joe Hayden]

You get it. You understand what's going on, and the players you got.

[Dick LeBeau]

That's humbling, Very humbling, Joe, for you to say that. But I tell you what, the other thing that I know. I know you would have enjoyed. I tried to coach the way I wanted to be coached, and I had enough experience of both sides of that ball. And I tried to teach from the film, and I didn't. I just. I just didn't say to a player, well, you got to do this. You got to get better at this. You got. I would show him why what he's doing is putting his half a step behind where he needs to be. And a half a step for. For a corner is. Is a whole lot of yards. When you get down to where the ball is going to be completed. Oh, yeah. And I would. Each guy is different. I didn't have one standard stance or one standard shift or plan or pivot or whatever. I tried to tailor everything that I taught around his physical capability. What I. What I knew he could do best.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what great coaches do.

[Dick LeBeau]

And the same thing was true with guys at James's position. I tried to call. I invented defenses that let them do what they could do the best.

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