Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Kirk Cousins to Steelers? Maxx Crosby trade FALLS APART, Kyler Murray joins Vikings

Summary

Nightcap Podcast – "Deebo & Joe – Part 1: Kirk Cousins to Steelers? Maxx Crosby trade FALLS APART, Kyler Murray joins Vikings"

Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: James D. "Deebo" Harrison & Joe Haden (Shay Shay Media / iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Deebo Harrison and Joe Haden sit down to break down the biggest NFL news and rumors swirling mid-March 2026. They dive unfiltered into persistent Kirk Cousins rumors, the dramatic unraveling of the Maxx Crosby trade, and the Minnesota Vikings’ headline-grabbing acquisition of Kyler Murray. The conversation also touches on player contracts, the structure and efficacy of the NFL Players Association, and the chess game between teams and stars at the negotiating table. Expect real talk, a locker-room vibe, and plenty of laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kirk Cousins to the Steelers? (08:25–11:55)

• Rumor roundup: Joe asks Deebo about speculation linking Kirk Cousins to the Steelers.
• Deebo’s Reaction: Unenthused, viewing Cousins as “middle of the pack” and a pure "bridge" quarterback, not a franchise-changing addition.
  • "Kirk Cousins is what it is. It's going to be a manageable quarterback...not too good, not too bad." – Deebo (08:40)
• Value and Fit: Both hosts doubt Cousins is worth a big payday for Pittsburgh when Will Howard should be given the reins.
  • "I'm not with bringing Kirk Cousins in, but I am if it's for the right price and it's going to be more backup." – Deebo (11:55)
• Financial chatter: The guys marvel at Cousins’ knack for lucrative, fully-guaranteed contracts.

2. Jalen Warren's Contract Compared to Market (11:55–15:40)

• Running back deals: Discussion around Jalen Warren being "grossly underpaid" compared to Kenneth Walker’s big new deal with the Chiefs.
  • "When you hit the free agency market at the right time, you...can go get what your value is out there." – Deebo (12:42)
• Timing and Market Dynamics: Jalen’s contract was about opportunity, not performance—he simply didn’t hit the open market after a big year.
• Steelers’ Perspective: Deebo and Joe agree Pittsburgh “stole” Jalen at his price, and it’s just the tough business of NFL running backs.

3. How NFL Teams Use Running Backs & Trade Dynamics (20:44–22:35)

• Two-back backfields: The hosts point to Detroit’s now-legendary two-starter system, using it as a template for Pittsburgh’s own approach.
• Trade value: Having multiple productive backs is both a luxury and trade asset.

4. Maxx Crosby Trade Falls Apart (23:07–44:03)

• Failed physical or something fishy? The guys reveal the Crosby–Ravens deal crumbled after a "failed" physical, but Joe thinks Baltimore bailed because Trey Hendrickson became available for less.
  • "Everybody know now what the real deal was, okay? They saw that boy Trey Henderson, he wasn't signed...Once they realized that deal was done, they said, hey, fail Crosby, because you fail anytime you can't go right on the field." – Joe (23:34)
• The "Good Faith" Charade: Detailed breakdown of how "good faith" negotiations in the NFL are less about actual trust and more about legal maneuvering.
  • "When you hear that good faith, man, hold your pocket, hold your pocket when you hear that good faith." – Joe (39:19)
• Player Impact: Deebo and Joe empathize with Crosby, who is left in limbo as the Ravens do what’s best for them and the union stays silent.
• Cultural Moment: Deebo coins the Ravens as “used car salesmen” and “janky promoters” for their handling of the situation.

5. Critique of NFLPA and its Leadership Process (24:59–31:28)

• Opaque Leadership: Joe rails against the association’s lack of transparency in choosing its executive director.
  • "The members they're talking about is the committee and the player reps. So you're talking about 50 players, not a group of almost 2,000 that they represent..." – Joe (26:48)
• Bad Representation: Joe shares a personal story about bad legal counsel with NFLPA’s attorney — “double agent” vibes, betraying players’ confidences.
• Institutional Critique: The hosts criticize both the NFLPA’s power structure and the way old leadership perpetuates its own grip on power.

6. Kyler Murray to the Vikings: Contract Wrinkle & Career Forecast (44:42–52:26)

• Kyler’s No Tag Clause: The guys like that Murray negotiated a contract with a no-tag clause—he can’t be kept with the franchise tag if he excels.
  • "He kind of betting on himself, like, I'm about to come back out here...put a no tag clause in there." – Joe (45:07)
• Change of Scenery: Both agree a new environment and a weapon like Justin Jefferson could be what Kyler needs.
• Skepticism on Success: Joe doubts Murray’s long-term potential as a starter due to reliance on his legs and historical reluctance to stay in the pocket—citing height as a limiting factor.
  • "I don't think he'll be able to do it. The reason...he relies too much on his legs instead of reading through his progressions." – Joe (47:19)
• JJ McCarthy Impact: Is he demoted? Is it a real competition? The hosts debate whether bringing in Kyler signals a lack of faith in last year's starter.
• Quarterback competition: Deebo sees it as a fight; the starting job is up for grabs in camp.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On negotiating in the NFL:
  "They need a consultant too. Max had this post right here... Everything happens for a reason. Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. I'm a Raider. I'm back." – Joe (40:20)
• On handshake deals:
  "That good faith, that's that handshake deal. And somebody just screws you over regularly. You got. What proof do you have?" – Deebo (44:30)
• On the QB carousel:
  "If you don't ball, like we know your first-round pick, but time is a ticket. Like you got to show us now. But if you don't, we got Kyler Murray..." – Deebo (49:41)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Kirk Cousins to Steelers and QBs in Pittsburgh: 08:25–11:55
• Jalen Warren contract talk and RB market: 11:55–15:40
• RB value, trades & Detroit model: 20:44–22:35
• Maxx Crosby trade fallout & “good faith” in the NFL: 23:07–44:03
• NFLPA process, double-agent lawyer story: 24:59–31:28
• Kyler Murray to the Vikings, no-tag clause, and QB battle: 44:42–52:26

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Tone & Vibe

Unfiltered, candid, and just like a locker-room debate. Both Deebo and Joe mix sharp football insight with locker-room banter—taking shots, sharing laughs, but always pulling back the curtain for fans on how the NFL business really works.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a masterclass in how NFL insiders see the game's politics, payday hustle, and backroom negotiations—perfect for fans wanting to understand the real drama off the field. Deebo and Joe’s transparency, humor, and stories from experience add layers beneath each headline, from the ongoing quarterback carousel to the complex bureaucracy of the players’ union.

Listen for: Bold predictions, real talk on NFL power moves, and player-first insight into contract drama and union politics.

Transcript

[James D. Bo Harrison]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Debo Joe]

I'm doing good brother Debo. You always hide your screen and pop off and I know you gonna have on something crazy looking swole. You gonna have your arms out, you gonna have something on where you blank your screen until right before the show starts. So I'd expect nothing less. I would expect for you to come out here. Is that a TJ wiser? Is that a 90? Are you looking swole in my young man watch jersey?

[Joe Hayden]

I I it ain't just the TJ White jersey Baby, you know, I. You know, it's. It ain't just a T.J. watt jersey, you know, it ain't just a.

[Debo Joe]

It's the game. It's a game. It's. He won in the game. It's game one. It's game one. It'S game worn. It's game one, personalized wear. Hey, hey.

[Joe Hayden]

It ain't just game one, baby.

[Debo Joe]

It's personalized.

[Joe Hayden]

Take a shower after this. You know what? I'm gonna have to take a shower after this. Cause it's real. Game one. It's stinky.

[Debo Joe]

It's stink.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. Got a little. Got a little. Got a little. Got a little tingle to it, you know, Little tang, you know? Yeah.

[Debo Joe]

Hey, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

My good man, T.J. watt.

[Debo Joe]

Thank you. Great, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Appreciate you. You know what I'm saying? Hey, I ain't gonna lie to you. It was a fight. Trying to get into it. I don't know how he gets shoulder pads in this thing, man.

[Debo Joe]

Telling you, you know, it take. It takes the staff. You ain't see TJ put his pads on. It's him and the trainer.

[Joe Hayden]

Gotta take at least two, three people.

[Debo Joe]

Two, three dudes getting his pads on. Yes, that's fit. He has shoulder pads underneath of. Of that. Tight.

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[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, bruh. I had to get help, bro.

[Debo Joe]

I was.

[Joe Hayden]

I was clinched up and all that.

[Debo Joe]

No, it's a whole process. You gotta really, really practice. You gotta. It's not. It's not a game. You could get stuck in there. Hey. Dislocate a shoulder.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, listen, bro, I'm trying to tell you. Then finger fangled my left shoulder a little bit. That's what I get up in there.

[Debo Joe]

You get caught with your arm up. Stuck, really, like needing help.

[Joe Hayden]

I was locked on the couch like this, getting it, getting it yanked down, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, Like I was going into the

[Debo Joe]

game, I'm telling you.

[Joe Hayden]

Well, I see. I see you back at the crib. How was your trip, brother?

[Debo Joe]

Trip was great. Trip was great, man. Ran into a lot of good men, bro. The. The best man in the world war. Done with the work that he's doing, you know what I'm saying? For single mothers, you know, he's giving away 250 homes, bro, to single moms. Like charitable, bro. That's so. Just being able to be around dudes doing good stuff, man. And that's what I'm trying to do. Just trying to help out the community. And that's what it was. It was a player summit. Standing together, you know what I'm saying, so just dudes trying to figure out ways to help their communities out in the best way possible. So it was really, really a event, man. It was great times. Anquan Bowden and my man demario Davis, they really are two really big parts of it. They run it. Our boy Killer Brew was out there, you know what I'm saying? So just. Good, good, man. Bro, it was a good time. I had a blast. And then I went and got some golfing out there, too. Didn't play too well, but I had a great time because, you know.

[Joe Hayden]

Well, I mean, do you ever play well?

[Debo Joe]

I always, bro. It's. The season is coming back around, Debo. It's been cold, it's been snowing. I ain't been able to get out and swing as much as I need to, you know what I'm saying? So once I get back into the.

[Joe Hayden]

Back into the groove, you ain't playing no space. Did you.

[Debo Joe]

No, no, no, no. I didn't play no spades. I stayed away from the car.

[Joe Hayden]

I was just checking. Yeah, I was just checking. I was just checking to make sure, you know what I'm saying? Maybe you might. You might have got a little bit of that spades game in there, you know?

[Debo Joe]

No, no. And next time I come around you, Debo, trust me, I will be locked all the way in conversations. Get away. Hey, it's me and Debo right here. We about to go run the table.

[Joe Hayden]

This. This ain't no game we playing.

[Debo Joe]

We're locked in. We're locked in.

[Joe Hayden]

We all the way locked in.

[Debo Joe]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

They say the Steelers are among the people for Kirk Cousins as a landing spot. What do you think of that? That. That assumption or that belief?

[Debo Joe]

I mean, I'm.

[Joe Hayden]

If

[Debo Joe]

Debo. I don't know. I'm, you know, Kirk Cousins is Kurt. Kirk Cousins is what it is, what it is. He is what it is. It's going to be a. A manageable quarterback, you know what I'm saying? Not. Not. Not going to be too good. Not going to be too bad. But I. I don't know. What's the money look like? What's the money look like? And I. I'm not too entertained, honestly. I. I love Kirk Cousins. Great dude, but it's just still, like we said, middle of the pack. What are we. Is he going to be competing versus Will? Or is he going to be like. If Will doesn't end up panning out at all, we just know we got Kurt to be able to maintain the ship until next season. We Got to get a. We got to draft the quarterback or we definitely have to go get one, because I know he's not the quarterback for the future. Like, are we just bringing Kirk Cousins? It's all. It's like, it's bridge. It's all these names that they're bringing into. It's bridge. I'm like, all right, for what, though? That's what I'm trying to figure out with the Kirk Cousins.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't. I don't see Kirk Cousins in Pittsburgh or see him as a landed spot. I think the only reason this is being talked about is Aaron Rodgers hasn't made a decision on coming back yet or not.

[Debo Joe]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

And they're still. Or he's still deciding, you know, what he's going to do. And once that decision is made one way or the other, then I think the chances of him being here are higher. But I still don't see it happening because of the teams that, you know, are out there right now. I believe the Raiders don't have nobody. I believe Minnesota don't have anyone. Well, as a for sure one, we'll get into that later. But for me, it's not something I think we'll be able to even offer the money for. When it comes down to it, when you look at the Raider situation and, you know, if Aaron comes back, it's not. It's not even a thought. It's not even in the process. But if he doesn't, then depending on what happens with him, again, I'm with you. It's going to come down to the money and what it is that he's looking for. Because I feel then that we really go and just run with Will Howard and see what he can do and. And have Kurt there as a backup if things go awry.

[Debo Joe]

Cause I need to know what the money's talking about, because I. I love Kurt, but Kurt has been able to go and just really hit teams for like 30 million a year. Not too high, not too low, but like that 30 piece, that's. That's a bag. He's just walking around, just spanking. He was getting them fully guaranteed joints from the. From the Cowboys, them contracts. So I love just, you know what you're going to get. But my thing is it's more of a bridge. He's not going to come change the game with us. It's going to be, you're going to get some good, you're going to get some bad. You know what I'm saying? Him and the A, that was like he Got his. Pittman, got the job there, you know what I'm saying? Got the job done. I mean, pinnocks, you know what I'm saying? So I'm, I don't think that we need it, you know what I'm saying? I'm with the fact that we going, we got Will Howard. We're doing the right moves right now. Don't stress. I hear you, though. Aaron Rodgers is still the reason, kind of why this is even in the air, you know what I'm saying? So I'm, I'm not a, I'm not a. I'm not with the bringing Kirk Cousins in, but I am if it's for the right, the right price and it's going to be more backup.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you all the way there. So the Steelers, they say our guy Jalen is now grossly underpaid. Considered what the market is right now. You have the running back from Seattle. He went to the Chiefs, Kenneth Walker. He signed a deal that was almost 15 million a year. And I guess when you look at the reference of Warren, compared to his 50 yards less, Walker had a total in the regular season. And then. Oh, sorry. Warren had a total of 50 yards less than Walker in the regular season. And with that, with that being said, brother, do you, you think he upset? Not upset. I don't.

[Debo Joe]

I mean, you, you know, when, obviously when you see people that are getting the bag, you're not. When you, you, when you got a hit, when it's hot. Do you know what I'm saying? Like Warren, it just wasn't when dudes, when, when teams can get you under contracts, they're going to get you under the best deal that they possibly can. They don't want to have to pay a running back. But if you hit the free agency market at the right time, you with a good year. You know what I'm saying? Like betting on yourself, it's just the right time, right place, you know what I'm saying? And sometimes it's not. It sucks for Warren. He's a baller. Like in, in. Not in no world that he's supposed to be making three times as much as him. But when he hit the, when he hits, he's off the championship they just won. He's a free agent. He can go to the market and get the best deal that he can get. If Jalen was a free agent this year, he would have been able to go get some money. You seen how our boy gamewell went and got Seven and a half, you know what I'm saying? Like, because he's open market, it's time you can go get what your value is out there. So I, I know he, you would definitely be upset. Obviously underpaid. But for the Steelers, you get that's, they kind of stole that, you know what I'm saying? And it's just unfortunate that he's at the deal. He was, he wasn't able to get the contract. It's just timing wise.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're going in a comparison. Yeah. I would obviously say he's grossly underpaid.

[Debo Joe]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

For what it is, you know, that he's worth. But when you get paid, like that's just something that kind of happens before you get paid. You're, you're either going to, you know, first like prove that you're worth more than you're getting paid. So it's going to come a point in time where you know you're not going to make the money that you're worth. I think when Jalen signed he was a restricted actual free agent. So he was restricted. I think they ended up signing him to a one year restricted free agent tender that was like 5.3 million. And that was in, I want to say like April or something. And then that was when they didn't pick up Najee's fifth year. And then they doubled back around to Jalen with a two year extension in that same year. In that September, which was last year. Last September. And you know, at that time it was a good deal, it was a good timing. You know, he's getting a little bit of money. Yes.

[Debo Joe]

Get him a couple.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. It's getting against him.

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[James D. Bo Harrison]

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[Debo Joe]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Debo Joe]

What's wrong? Nothing's wrong. You look like a guy running on three hours of sleep and vibes.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, yeah, I'm tired, kind of cranky and very thirsty.

[Debo Joe]

Congrats.

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[Debo Joe]

And I bet your last bathroom break

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[Debo Joe]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Debo Joe]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James D. Bo Harrison]

Well, many thanks, good sir.

[Joe Hayden]

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They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Getth with the times.

[Joe Hayden]

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You're playing the loot.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. You know, he's not a free agent till what, 28 or something like that. So that means, you know, he has a real chance of maybe in 27, you know, if the Steelers want to keep him, depending on what his performance is and you know, and also depending on how Rico Doughty does, you know.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

In that.

[Debo Joe]

So I, I, I love the fact though, same time Warren, since they do have, since he's not just the one that has to get all the punishment, we do have Rico doddle too. So I love that for him. Jalen's still going to be able to ball when he gets in the game, do exactly what you did. He's probably going to be able to do the same thing that gamewell did, you know what I'm saying? Now Daw will be there. If he's balling, they don't want him. You just keep balling out and you might have to leave and go get a contract elsewhere where you'll get paid, you know what I'm saying? Or the Steelers might pay you a little bit more. We'll see. But it's just that situation where now they brought in another running back. It's just the way that the NFL goes and especially in the running back market, you know what I'm saying? You can get one in for free. I mean not for free for the low like you bring in gain. Well, last year he played for the one for four and now he's going to get seven and a half, you know what I'm saying? You had approve a year and then he went, went and got it. So I think I, I like it for, I like it for, I like it, I don't like it for Jalen because you looking and seeing people that you're having the same production where you're like, man, I can go get that bread. But just know when you're. When it's your time to hit, you know, I'm saying ball out on that year.

[Joe Hayden]

Well, I mean, they can run into a situation later where it's a. A Detroit kind of situation where you have two running backs that are actually starters anywhere else. And now you have an opportunity as an organization that you can trade, you know, and get something that could help you. And in the process of you trading them could. Could later help them, you know, because I think the contract that sent. The trade that sent David Montgomery over there to Detroit, I believe they got a player, a fourth and a seventh round in that, you know, in that trade when he went over there to Detroit and immediately they signed. Detroit signed your guy. What's his name? P. Oh, yeah. He was from Kansas City.

[Debo Joe]

Pacheco.

[Joe Hayden]

Pacheco. He signed it. They signed your guy for Checo.

[Debo Joe]

So they. So they got replacement Checo now.

[Joe Hayden]

Right. As the replacement to come in for Gibbs. So. Yeah. And I also believe that the Texans, it's a likelihood that they'll adjust his. David Montgomery's contract to try and keep him longer, pay him a little more, because now he's expected to be the, you know, the number one.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Starting. Starting running back for. For their team.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. But, you know, it's gonna be. At some point you will be grossly underpaid for your work. Like, you got to show them that, like, you got to outwork what it is that you're getting paid at some point so that you can get paid what it is that you're worth in the future. And this is one of those situations where, you know, it's going to come to. I think it'll come to pass. But he, you know, he signed a good deal at the time. Yeah, it was a good deal. Especially being in the position where he was restricted.

[Debo Joe]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

Which meant they could have still held on to him for a year, made him play that out and then do it over again. And they were like, yeah, we're gonna do this. So.

[Debo Joe]

Yep. At the time. Good. Because then you say for one, you

[Joe Hayden]

said it was two, and you have no choice.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah, no choice.

[Joe Hayden]

So when you're restricted, dude gotta go and match. They got a chance to match whatever it is you get. So don't nobody really want to talk to you. Ain't nobody gonna talk to you because they know all I'm gonna do is kick your money up.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

And they really. I never heard it Happen.

[Debo Joe]

No.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. And then you go into the whole, what the hell happened with the Max Crosby?

[Debo Joe]

Like, got to be more careful, bruh.

[Joe Hayden]

They got, they said, they. They said they backed out of the deal because he. He failed the physical and they had concerns about how to recovery of the meniscus surgery. Was, Was. Was going or whatever.

[Debo Joe]

I feel a lot of emotions was going on.

[Joe Hayden]

Debo. Everybody know now what the real deal was, okay? They saw that boy, Trey Henderson, he wasn't signed. They said, yo, he started giving him a little shout. Listen, let's go ahead and give him a holler. Let's see what he talking about. And they like, okay. Once they realized that deal was done, they said, hey, fail, Crosby, because you fail anytime, you can't go right on the field at the time of your physical and play a game. Yes, you're failed, period.

[Debo Joe]

Yes, yes.

[Joe Hayden]

And they noticed going into this because the man had just had surgery, you

[Debo Joe]

know, he's returning, he gonna be straight, like, right? But that's when you. That happens.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, but now they got. They got Henderson, they got him cheaper, they got him for a year longer. And on top of that, they got back both of them first round picks. They were going to have to give up for Max. Like, they're. They're going with the. What is it? Operating good faith words. In good faith?

[Debo Joe]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

Good faith to what? To who? To their benefit, not yours. You know what the crazy thing is? That's the same wording the NFL used when it came down to the CBA in 2011, bro.

[Debo Joe]

In good faith.

[Joe Hayden]

It was a bunch of things that they had no clarity on, like they hadn't made rules on. And the explanation or the clarity that they gave was we will act in good faith. That is not true. And, and right now, dude, it feels like the NFLPA has adopted that same transparency or that same logic with their non transparency of how they're adjusting play players or how they're electing the executive director. Because I believe right now CJ Trotter is. Is likely like one of the finalists for the executive director. And I believe that's the same guy that stepped down last time after the executive director then who was Lloyd Howe, resigned and like, no, hey, I wanted to let you know that I didn't make it.

[Debo Joe]

You didn't make it?

[Joe Hayden]

No, I didn't. I did not. My name was put in, but I didn't make it. But again, this feels like to me, it's an. It's. It's the good old boys club. You know, they don't like you, you don't get in. And that's why like they keep saying, well, we won't publicly be, you know, transparent, but we'll be transparent with our members. Now members, you gotta, you gotta realize when they say that word, members, they'll say we will be. What was it? We'll be adamantly in. We want to be adamant in maintaining candidates confidentiality to protect the integrity of the search.

[Debo Joe]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

But will make sure you're informed on these on the. As these proceedings unfold, right? Yeah. When they say members, they're only Talking to about 50 players, dude. The members they're talking about is the committee and the player reps. So you're talking about 50 players, not a group of almost 2, 000 that they represent that will never like the players, the 2000 player will never get a chance to vote or be informed of who was even in the runnings for executive director until the 50 guys, the committee and the player reps have narrowed it down to like two or three guys. And then only then will the members, the 50 guys vote. And now one single player outside of that members will make a vote. Yeah. Okay. And again, all this is because the dude that they got after, James Smith, demari Smith, he made it all about him keeping power, keeping this position had nothing to do with the NFLPA players. The players, the players themselves. And dude, here's the crazy thing, bro. A good majority of these dudes that are on this members thing now know that D. Smith was trash. And they still will hold that tenure

[Debo Joe]

that he was at.

[Joe Hayden]

Like, he was, he was something good.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Like the only good thing they doing is they starting to weed off the Cancers, bro. One of them being the Heather McPhee, the lawyer trash, bro. That's who they use to represent us. When we had that Al Jazeera thing going down, they were trying to say, oh, you did this, you did that, bro. Let me tell you this. So you sit down there with your lawyer, right? Yes. And your lawyer asking you questions. Hey, what's going on? What's this and that? Right. So you tell your lawyer everything, right? What's your lawyer? Right?

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

So I'm sitting there and, and they're asking me some questions. She's asking me questions. I'm like, okay, yeah, this happened, this happened, this didn't. I don't know what this is. And she asked me about some treatment stuff. I'm like, no, I'm like, I had my dad do some alternative treatments for his cancer and all that stuff. And you know, I'm telling her about all that and she's like, well, you didn't do it. I'm like, no, I didn't do it. You know, it would be no need for me to do it.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

I get into the meeting, bro, the NFL lawyers are sitting down. She's sitting down with me. Let me preface this. The first thing she tells me is, oh, we'll be okay. I'm good friends with D. Smith. I don't give a damn. Good friends with. On top of that, she was telling me some, some details of other guys. Cases that you shouldn't be talking to me about.

[Debo Joe]

You talking to me? Yeah, I know you're talking about.

[Joe Hayden]

Why are you even. I don't. I shouldn't know this. Nobody was guilty when it. Anyway, it didn't really matter.

[Debo Joe]

I know, but you're still not supposed to be saying what's going on because now I know you probably talking about my stuff.

[Joe Hayden]

No question. So I get into the meeting.

[Debo Joe]

This is, this is.

[Joe Hayden]

The NFL lawyers are there. She's there representing me as the NFL player. Yes. And NFL pa. Sorry for the, for the players. And they go, okay, well, we know you did your, you had your dad doing this type of treatment. That type of treatment. Did you do any of that stuff? I'm like, what? She went in there and told him everything. I told her instantly. If I was guilty, I would have been. I'd have been 10 minutes Sunday.

[Debo Joe]

Double agent, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

Diggly, diggly, double trip, triple. It didn't matter. Like, who in the world does that? They.

[Debo Joe]

I feel Debo. That's, that's the whole. From. That's inside. That's, that's just bad representation. That's. That's double agent. That's. That's all that's on too many accounts.

[Joe Hayden]

Wrong. Dude, I'm trying to tell you something. But another person ended up getting. Well, he, he resigned. Don Davis. That dude, he needed to, bro. They actually ended up realizing that he wasn't for them and that's why they were. You know, he, he realized he wasn't going to get the nod to, to be put into that position to, to, to be elected. And he was like, yeah, I'm resigning. Going. He was part of the same BS that was all D. Smith. McPhee was part of that too. Like, dude, anytime you gotta blow it up, man.

[Debo Joe]

That's what it sounds like.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm just hoping. I know I'm not in there. I know I'm not gonna be in there. Cool. But I will just say this to the Guys, good luck in your future negotiations, but I want y' all to remember well, how to go. It says chance favors the prepared mind. I hope whoever y' all select is prepared, but I highly. I'm kind of suspicious that I don't know if they. If they will be. If they will be prepared. But the NFL, they're upset, though, about this Sydney, Sidney Crosby situation. They're not. They're not the.

[Debo Joe]

Max Crosby.

[Joe Hayden]

Max. Sorry. Max Cross. Why I keep saying Sydney?

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Because he.

[Joe Hayden]

He a Penguin. That's why I keep saying that. Yeah, that's why I keep saying that. Yeah. So they said they're. They're not happy with the Ravens. Nixon, Detroit, NFL. Exact. He said whatever they saw before their. Whatever they saw better be career threatening. Otherwise, we don't do this. They knew something was wrong with his knee. He just had surgery to get it fixed. It really feels like they had some other reason for wanting out of this deal. There's got to be something else here. We all know he probably wasn't going to be ready until training camp. It really sounds like they just got scared and looked for a way out. They ain't get scared. They knew they had something else in the bag, Joe, because they.

[Debo Joe]

So after that first day when Trey didn't get signed, they was looking like, okay, his market is a little bit less than I expected I could be able to maybe finagle and get him for the low. We on the phone call. We got him on the other line. We. They talking to both. They talking to Max and track. They talking to Max and Trey. They double. They double different. Obviously you're talking to everybody because they're both the position.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, they already hit Max with the good faith. They already hit. Operating good faith. Now we go. Operating good faith.

[Debo Joe]

We go get it done. That ink ain't dry. Hey, that's the. That's the. The good. Good faith. My tush.

[Joe Hayden]

Like it ain't official. We ain't. We ain't went on here and signed off on this and the man had

[Debo Joe]

the surgery like you said, so he's automatically going to fail the physical. The physical's fail. You're going to not see nothing. It's not going to. He's going to be able to play for sure. But the physical, where he's not going to be able to get on the field that day and go play in the game, you could say he's a fail. But the Ravens knew that when you signed them because he had. Coming off the surgery. So Max is going to be good. I think they saw that the trey's market wasn't as high. They didn't have to give up two first round picks. They they could just go sign them to a little chill deal and go get them off the chill snuck it ended up getting that back door out of the other deal with Max and then they like this good faith is for the team. We could say whatever we talking to the agents we say oh yeah that's yo yep sounds good. Everything's all right bet but until I ink signed until the deal is actually done it's messed up for show. That's not the way that everybody's rocking. That's why Adam Scheffner and when these dudes are able to put out these deals the ink isn't signed but these are what everybody's came down to the table in good faith. This is the deal. Everything's good. Everybody all all favors say I I, you know what I'm saying? And then

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[Joe Hayden]

Ugh.

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[Debo Joe]

Right?

[Joe Hayden]

And the best part? They accept Discover.

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Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so.

[Joe Hayden]

Jennifer oh yeah. Huh? Discovers accepted where I like to shop.

[James D. Bo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Debo Joe]

full of days. And then we had to really sign the contract when the dude flies in. All right, everything's good. Boom boom. They taking pictures at the facility. That's when the real deal's done. But the Adam Schiff and the seeing all of this stuff, that's just in good faith deals. All these in good faith deals until you see the person at the spot with the hat on signing at the facility, that's when the real deal is done. So like I'm with It. But they. They finagled. They was in the joint trying to finesse, and then they got their two first round picks and they got their dn, you know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

We're good.

[Debo Joe]

Y' all mad. You know what I'm saying? We finagled our way. So everybody could be mad at the Ravens and the Zecs and stuff because it's the good faith you want to feel like when you talking to the dudes, it's good. But until that dude is sitting there signing that contract, they're playing the game. They're finagling. That. That was. That was jacked up. That's what happened.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, yeah, dude, listen, when you hear that good faith, man, hold your pocket, hold your pocket when you hear that good faith. If they really want to show good faith, good faith now should be a signed contract of saying, hey, in good faith that we're going to do this deal, we're going to give you a signed good faith note that says we're giving you 10 million. One of those deals done, that'll go towards your deal. And if it's not done, then we keep. Then the player gets to keep that money.

[Debo Joe]

What? What.

[Joe Hayden]

What are these things?

[Debo Joe]

What are these things?

[Joe Hayden]

Put that in the cba.

[Debo Joe]

What are these things? Debo, what are the joints called now? Because, like, everybody had the docusign. Everybody got docusign. So if it's that much good faith. No, send this docusign. Send me that docusign.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, send me docusign right now. You don't act in good faith and we let you go, then you keep the 10. If we do act in good faith, you go ahead and get it. Now, you ain't got to sign teams. You ain't got to sign to a whole big contract. Nflpa, listen, they ain't got to sign to a whole big contract. They're just signing in good faith that they're going to act in good faith.

[Debo Joe]

They better docusign me that bread.

[Joe Hayden]

Listen, man, I'm trying to tell you, man. They need a consultant too. Because I need a consultant. I need something, man. Max. Max had this post right here, brother. Check it out. He said everything happens for a reason. Nothing, you hear? Believe nothing to leave, nothing, you hear? And only half of what you see. I'm a raider on back. Run that.

[Debo Joe]

I feel him like

[Podcast Advertiser (Public Investing and others)]

if you're the

[Debo Joe]

player in the situation, first he really. You really think he was going somewhere?

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, bro, he posted some stories with him sacking Lamar too, though.

[Debo Joe]

If you the player, man, you feel like, you feel like he was going to. You felt like he was going to be a Raven. He was ready. Now, when you gonna have to come back and play for that team? You going, man, I'm back. I'm here.

[Joe Hayden]

They said the Ravens over there like a used cars, used car salesman type business in the chat, brother.

[Debo Joe]

Man, that. That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. Janky promoters. But. But. But it. I mean, yeah, it is. I mean, but he did fail the physical, so they can really say it in a way.

[Joe Hayden]

He was gonna fail his physical, Joe.

[Debo Joe]

That's why they could be clear, though. That's why they can say it, because it really did happen. But it's janky promoters, because you knew it was gonna happen,

[Joe Hayden]

bruh. Man, listen, that right there, you signed that. You signed him knowing that he was not ready to play a game.

[Debo Joe]

Yeah, yeah, that. That. Yes. You knew he was gonna play that season, but you knew that physical was not gonna. He wasn't gonna pass.

[Joe Hayden]

Like. Like, y' all knew this going into this, and the NFL is the ones that's pissed off. And the NFLPA ain't said a word. Where y' all at for your player?

[Debo Joe]

Yeah, they just got him. They got Max. They. Matt, Max really think he about to get traded.

[Joe Hayden]

No, Max, call. Call. Hey, hey, Carl's been. Call the NFLPA acting executive director or whoever, or call Jalen Maiden Reeves. Call somebody and ask them, yo, what y' all gonna do about this? Like, they represent y' all now. You. I'm out of it. What's the recourse for this action right here? Like, come on. They. They allowed to just. Yo, yo, you up and down, Bob.

[Debo Joe]

You. Yeah, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Ravens flock, all this other stuff. Now you like, yo, I'm back. You know, I know. You know, I said I was gone, said my goodbyes, but, like, huh. I don't know. Crosby, check in with them boys. I don't know why they ain't checked in with you yet. It's crazy.

[Debo Joe]

That lead, man, is. They. They can. They. Can they.

[Joe Hayden]

Hell, it's supposed to be our union or was. It's. You still in it right now? I. I ain't in it no more. But you still in it right now because you. You within that. That first five years, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, man, where are they at in this process? Like, this should have been. They should have been in an uproar. No, we don't. I don't know.

[Debo Joe]

He go back, so he's had to go Back. He goes back to.

[Joe Hayden]

Nobody knows what's going on, bro. This is just up in the air like, he's back. But now how. What does that do? Is they signed. They signed people. They got rid of people. Like, I don't. What? What? No recourse, nothing? No, I don't. I don't get it. Hey, hey, listen, we appreciate you sitting up here and. And, you know, letting us play with you. You and use you to do something else and. Yeah, faith is for us.

[Debo Joe]

No, they ain't tripping.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on.

[Debo Joe]

That organization around, so the Ravens, they gonna. They. They just trying to do the best that they can to get the best for their team, what they think, and they don't care if that hurts or yo yos or breaks good faith. You got to send that docusign. I'm telling you, that. That good faith, that's that handshake deal. And somebody just screws you over regularly. You got. What proof do you have? No, they said.

[Joe Hayden]

They said it was good wide open. Wide open. It's not even behind closed, just wide open. Usually, you know, they get behind closed door, just wide open.

[Debo Joe]

He said it ain't done until it

[Joe Hayden]

just don't get that, I guess. Kyler Murray reportedly agreed to a deal with the Vikings, which includes a little wrinkle in there. He has a tag claw. So they. They can't. They can't tagging you like that. I actually like it, though. I think, you know, he kind of. He kind of betting on himself, like, I'm about to come back out here. I ain't gonna let y' all give me a. You know, I'm gonna put a no tag clause in there. So when I go over here and I ball out, I'm gonna be able to do this, and y' all gonna want me back. Y' all gonna need me back, man.

[Debo Joe]

I hear him. I respect him for.

[Joe Hayden]

What do you think? You think he'll be able to do it, man? You think he go pull up one of those, you know, Sam Darnold type comebacks?

[Debo Joe]

I mean, he. This is the thing. He could. He has it in him. You know what I'm saying? He was the first. He was the hydra. He's been balling. I think maybe sometimes the system could be better for him there. You never know. But the no. I'm just saying. The note. The note. The no. The no. What he. What are you saying?

[Joe Hayden]

No tag clause.

[Debo Joe]

No tag clause.

[Joe Hayden]

They can't tag him. So this year, he would be up, done, and they can't tag him and

[Debo Joe]

they could give him.

[Joe Hayden]

But they would have to give him a contract.

[Debo Joe]

Man. Listen, all I know is he's making one. Was it 1.4 million from the Vikings this year and he's still getting something like that? Yeah, he's still getting that 36. So I think the league now though, him having to take 1.4 from the Vikings, I don't. The no tag, they can still, they can still offer him like a, A one for less than the tag. I, I don't understand why he could. Oh, he's. Yeah. So he could be free. Okay, I'm getting, I'm getting. So he can go anywhere he wants. Okay. Correct, correct, correct. He's betting on himself. He's better on himself for sure. I respect it. And I think, I think he's. That, that's a, that's a good call. That's a good call. So he can be able to get the best.

[Joe Hayden]

You think he's able to do it? You think he will be able to do or won't be able to do a scenario where he, he go and do that thing like, like, like Sam, like Sam Darnold?

[Debo Joe]

I think there's a possibility there. I think the Vikings have a good coaching staff. I think they have good, good receipt. Like Justin Jefferson isn't a bad guy to go have as a number one receiver. So you got some potential there. I know the coaching staff, the coaching court, the quarterback coach is really good. So I mean, I think sometimes too a change of scenery, you know what I'm saying? Getting the contract with Arizona Cardinals, putting all those like study or tape. We don't know if you're really watching film. Just, hey, not knowing if they're really believing in you. So have another team. I'm gonna just say, you going to another spot. I think he could, he could do it. He could, he could.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't, I don't. I. I don't think he's going to be able to do it. And the reason I don't think he'll be able to do that because he relies too much on his legs instead of reading through his progressions. And you remember, just like you said, was that 2022, he had a film study clause in his contract that they later removed because of the backlash from the fans. Okay. Now you add into it the height and what the concerns about him having trouble with the route progression and that's why they believe he leaves the pocket sooner than he should is because maybe he can't see it. You see what I'm saying? And when you look at Sam Darnold, yeah, like he's willing to stay in the pocket and he's willing to stay in there longer. So that gives him more time to read through his progressions and all that other stuff and it makes it easier. What is he, like 6, 3, 6 4? Something like that?

[Debo Joe]

Yeah, it sounds a big dude, you

[Joe Hayden]

know, so that's why I don't, I don't think it'll happen. I don't think he'll be able to do it. But with that said, I would love to see him prove me wrong and you know, go out there and, you know, take that no clause, that, that Noah tag clause and, and make it, you know, worth his own. Because I really believe they're going to give him a chance at trying to do it. Because Kevin o', Connell, he declined to, to give a starter and you know what he said was, he said, unless I'm confused in any way, shape or form, I don't believe I have to name one of those currently when he was saying about naming a starter, a starting quarterback for, for the Vikings. So, yeah, what, what do you think this means for JJ McCarthy? What do you think that means for his future?

[Debo Joe]

I mean, he gonna be in the fight. They not signing Kyler Murray there to just. I don't think he's signing up to be a backup to JJ at all. So it's going to be a quarterback competition, you know, like he don't have names.

[Joe Hayden]

You think he's in the fight. But wasn't he the actual starting quarterback until.

[Debo Joe]

So he been.

[Joe Hayden]

So for me, I feel like that's a demotion if I'm him. You just went and picked up a guy they let go and willing to pay. How much was it? 36 million to, to not have there.

[Debo Joe]

He ain't did enough.

[Joe Hayden]

You.

[Debo Joe]

I mean like at the end of the day, quarterback position is the position that they need and if they want to bring somebody there to, to push them, to challenge them. Like, look, if you don't ball, like we know your first round pick, but time is a ticket. Like you got to show us now. But if you don't, we got Kyler Murray and he's trying to prove himself also. He's coming off of this deal where he was getting the bag. He thought he was a franchise quarterback and they let him go for nothing. So you were first round quarterback. What you gonna do? And then we got Kyler here, you know what I'm saying? Definitely trying to prove himself also. So I, I like, I like the quarterback coach that's there, that's gonna be like, no, I'm not giving it to neither one of y'.

[Joe Hayden]

All.

[Debo Joe]

Y' all gotta show me what's up, Kyler. And I'm thinking now, if, you know, this is. This is your last chance, this isn't your last hurrah. Really kind of showed people what you gonna do, or if you're gonna kind of just fade out and just be it back up, or are you really worth that. That 50 million that you signed for? You know what I'm saying? So that little. I. I'm with the. He's small, but that is fast as a mug. So being able to, I think the athleticism. And if he starts really studying a tape, knows how to get through the progressions with the coaching staff helping him out. Like, man, look, you could just be BO Reads, and you are quick. Get your reads, get through your progressions. Take off, little man. You know what I'm saying? Slide. Like, I like his athleticism. He. He's super fast, but if he has the coaches to be able to get him to go through his progressions, be able to start kind of, you know what I'm saying, reading a little bit more, and then we can see. But with jj, I don't think, like, you ain't did enough to, like, be, like, walking around like, no, this is my team. No, we. You. You. You got. You got some stuff to prove. Still, like, you guys still got to show me through training camp, through the preseason, you know what I'm saying? Through whose squad is this?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I think. I think with Kyler, like, a big issue is, like. Like you said, trying to see the progression. And then when you're that. When you're that tall, man, he's looking through, like, slots and windows of people. He's not looking over the guy. He's not able to see over the guy. So he's seeing slots and windows. So now you go and you think it's a slot there. You let that thing go. All of a sudden, it's not, you know, where you thought it was, or it gets picked tipped, whatever it may be. And I think. I think that's. That's a big. That's a. That's a big issue for him. Just from, you know, a physical height. Yes, just from a physical aspect of being able to play the position. Like your offensive line, these dudes, you know, your tackle. 6, 6, 6, 5, 6, 7. Decent big dudes, you know, 6, 3, 6, 4. You know, on the interior, the shortest dude is usually your center, he'd still be about a 6263, you know, so, so I think that's something that he's having a or has an issue with getting passed. When it comes down to playing in the position of quarterback in the heat

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[Debo Joe]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Debo Joe]

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[Joe Hayden]

When Kohler, global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable cast iron, I said, I'm in. Soon after, I was in their Kohler Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron, poured enamel applied by hand, and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artisans and and seeing it firsthand gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I'm proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated [e-mail] as the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live cast iron.

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