Nightcap Hour 1: SGA Calls MVP Year a FAILURE + Unc & Iso BLAST Chet For Not TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY & DUCKING Wemby RIVALRY

Summary

Nightcap – Hour 1: SGA Calls MVP Year a FAILURE + Unc & Iso BLAST Chet For Not TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY & DUCKING Wemby RIVALRY

Hosts: Shannon Sharpe, Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson, Joe Johnson
Date: June 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Nightcap dives straight into the fallout from the Oklahoma City Thunder’s Game 7 playoff exit. The main focus is on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s (SGA) post-game comments labeling his own MVP season a "failure," and scrutiny intensifies on Chet Holmgren for "not taking accountability"—especially in the context of his much-anticipated but underwhelming matchup with Victor Wembanyama (Wemby). The hosts bring their trademark blend of honesty, critique, and storytelling to unpack the tough questions facing OKC’s roster and star players.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

SGA’s MVP Season: “A Failure”

[06:37–14:08]

• SGA, after an incredible regular season, called his year “a failure” following OKC’s playoff defeat:

  "I did not achieve what I wanted to achieve... I look at this no different. I didn’t get to where I wanted to go this season. There’s a reason for that. Now I have to look for that reason." (Host Joe reads SGA quote, 08:10)

• Both Shannon and Ocho praise SGA’s accountability—but also highlight his notable performance drop:
  • SGA's stats dropped from 31.1 PPG on 55% FG (regular season) to 26 PPG on 41% FG in the semifinals (09:02, 11:05).
  • Ocho: “That accountability he put on himself—I respect it so much. That’s why I’m a huge fan of him.” (09:55)
• The group agrees: True greats own their shortcomings, and SGA keeps himself to a championship standard.

Memorable Exchange:

Ocho: "He didn’t have a great series. San Antonio took the challenge to slow him down." (09:55)

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The Difficulty of Greatness: Why Back-to-Back MVPs are Rare

[12:37–14:08]

• Joe and Shannon emphasize how few have accomplished the "back-to-back MVP and Finals MVP" feat:
  • Shannon: “That’s not just an arbitrary thing. You think about it. LeBron was the last to do it. Then you go Jordan... That’s what makes them so great.” (13:11)
• They compare the criticism SGA receives to historic standards for greats like Kobe, LeBron, and Jordan.

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San Antonio Spurs’ Defensive Game Plan

[09:42–15:59, 20:22–21:24]

• Ocho gives the Spurs full credit for stifling SGA, praising their deep lineup of defenders:

  "They all can score and they all sit in that chair and play defense. If I do get by you, hell, I can't even really look at the goal. I got to become a passer." (11:47)

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Role Player Accountability & OKC’s Roster Questions

[29:04–34:38]

• The hosts discuss OKC’s looming contract crunch and which players might need to go:
  • Dort described as a defensive asset but offensive liability:

    “I can’t start Dort... I gotta get more production, Joe. I got to.” (34:26)

• Ocho insists OKC can’t compete with just two legitimate scoring threats in the lineup (31:49).
• Contract extensions and possible moves (J Dub, Chet, Kaysen Wallace) are debated, with financial realities for a small-market team looming large.

Memorable Quote:

Joe: “Them billionaires, they don’t like to shell out no $200 million, no $300 million, Joe.” (29:43)

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“Dodging the Smoke”: Chet Holmgren vs. Wemby

[45:15–67:46]

• Chet’s post-game comments blamed the collective team and avoided personal accountability for his lackluster play.
  • Ocho: “I don’t like all that ‘we-we’ neither. I like me to take accountability and be like, bro, I gotta be better.” (55:48)
• Joe and Shannon hammer Chet for dodging responsibility and shrinking from the challenge of Wemby:
  • “You only shot the ball two times more than me, and I didn’t get my big ass up off the couch.” (56:52, Joe)
  • Ocho: “He shied away from everything in moments where it mattered most.” (50:18)
• The hosts highlight the “game within the game”: the personal rivalry that should have fueled Chet to step up.
  • Ocho: “Ain’t no way in hell Chet didn’t feel that when he was out there, bro… Energy never lies.” (58:54)
  • Shannon: “He was already beat mentally.” (67:18)
• They argue that Chet must “look in the mirror,” embrace personal growth, and respond to adversity if he is going to fulfill his All-NBA potential.

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The Challenge of Sustaining NBA Greatness

[39:01–44:32]

• Even 41% shooting in the playoffs is “great” for some players—but for someone of SGA’s caliber, it invites criticism (39:01).
• The role that supporting cast, injuries, and fatigue play is dissected:
  • Ocho: “It was almost gonna be impossible for (SGA) to operate the way he’s operated during the regular season because of the attention that's put on him.” (40:22)

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Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• SGA’s Self-Critique:

  “I did not achieve what I wanted to achieve... Now I have to look for that reason and try to make sure it never happens again.” (08:10, SGA via Joe)

• On SGA’s Standards:

  Ocho: “It’s a failure, bro… The accountability that he put on himself, I respect it so much.” (09:55)

• On Defensive Pressure:

  Ocho: “If I do get by you, hell, I can’t even really look at the goal. I got to become a passer.” (11:47)

• On MVP Accountability:

  Shannon: “That’s why you get a Jordan… They always rise to the occasion.” (13:11)

• On SGA’s Fatigue:

  Joe: “That chest going up and down... you saw those hands on those shorts… he felt those legs starting to get a little weary.” (25:29)

• On Chet Dodging Accountability:

  Ocho: “He didn’t answer the call, fellas. And I don’t like all that ‘we-we’ neither. I like me to take accountability and be like, bro, I gotta be better.” (55:48) Joe: “You only shot the ball two times more than me, and I didn’t get my big ass up off the couch.” (56:52)

• On Game Within The Game:

  Joe: “There, there are personal battles, individual battles within the team game.” (59:31)

• On Chet’s Future:

  Ocho: “He gotta take this summer seriously, fellas, and he gotta come back ready and prepared… That’s the only way.” (67:46)

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Important Timestamps

• SGA’s Accountability & Performance Drop: 08:10–14:08
• Historic MVP Standards: 13:11–14:08
• San Antonio’s Defensive Gameplan: 11:47, 15:20
• OKC’s Supporting Cast & Contract Issues: 29:04–34:38
• Chet Holmgren Criticism: 45:15–67:46
• Mental Toughness, Rivalries, and Career Lessons: 58:58–67:46

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Final Thoughts: Tone & Takeaways

Throughout the hour, the tone is sharp, candid, and often playful—but it’s rooted in the culture of sports and personal responsibility. The hosts celebrate SGA’s rare self-accountability while fiercely critiquing Chet for avoiding it under pressure. The show combines serious analysis, NBA knowledge, and a locker-room vibe, making it both engaging and insightful.

For OKC: The challenge now is roster flexibility and personal growth. For Chet Holmgren, the message is clear: face the mirror, lean into adversity, and be ready for the next battle—because in the NBA, the standard is relentless, and the lights never get dimmer.

Transcript

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[Co-host Ocho]

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[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

I said, but, Joe, there's no way people can think that he played well in this series. He shot 14% less from the field than what he shot in the regular season. He shot 10% less from three than what he shot in the regular season, and he scored five fewer points. Under what scenario can you say Shea had a great series take? We'll deal with Chet in just a second. We're going to set him aside just for this, because he. I love the way he looked at his approach, where he says, look, my ultimate goal was to win an mvp, win the championship, win another Finals mvp. That's my ultimate goal. One of those three things happened after the other two did not. I can't look at this as a successful season, although some might. Joe, what do you like? What did you. What did you think about what he had to say? And what do you think about the series he just had?

[Co-host Ocho]

I love the fact that he. That he took the accountability and put it on himself. You know, that's what the great ones do, bro. They don't deflect. They don't blame. They point right at themselves, man, I gotta be better. I should have been better. And the fact that he had high standards, I mean, listen, he, he, he, he, he back to back MVP just coming off winning a title. Yeah, it's a failure, bro, because to him, because to Shay, he felt like they were the best team. He felt like they really had a chance to do something special and that was to win back to back championships. But they came up short. Give San Antonio credit. But no, he did not have a great series. He did not. I thought San Antonio took the challenge to try and slow him down and, and, and hold him below his average, which they did. Give San Antonio credit, they did a great job. But I, I understand what Shay's coming from. No, he, he, he, this wasn't up to his standards, bro. And the accountability that he put on himself, I respect it so much, which is why I'm a huge fan of him.

[Host Joe]

Because when you look at it, Joe, you say, well, Shannon, he only scored five points, but look at the percentage that it took him just to get to that, right?

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Think about that thinking for just a second. He shot 55% and a lot of his shot are the shots that he was making in this series.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Where you see him making tough 18, 19, 20 footers. He was getting to the. If you think about it in that. Because I. Hold on, wait a minute. You mean to tell me this man shot 14% less for what he normally shoots from the floor, 10% less and he had five points fewer. I can see possibly why they struggle, because even if Chet played as bad as he did and I just brain check just for this and I'm.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host Joe]

If Shay plays like he plays in the regular season, Joe, I'm still not sure they don't win this series.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hold on, hold on. But you got to look at San Antonio. They ain't got no shabby guards out there. Meaning when I say shabby, I'm talking about from Fox to Castle to Basell to Champion, those dudes go. It's no weak link defensively. They all can score. And they all sit in that chair and play defense. Give them credit on what they done to Shade, how they bottled him up, how they made everything tough, how they made his catching stuff, how they made all his shots tough. He had to take and make tough shots, bro. And then you got this alien behind him. If, if I do get, if I do get by you, hell, I can't even really look at the goal. You know what I mean? I Got to become a passer. So I think I. I'm giving a lot of credit to the Spurs. I'm giving a lot of credit to the spurs because they are an elite defensive team and they showed it throughout this series.

[Host Joe]

But what, what. So what about MVPs? If MVPs only succeed against marginal or average players, why are they mvp? Considering he. Think about it, how few times there have been back to back MVPs. Even four times they've been back to back MVPs with back to back titles. That's what makes them so great. That's why you get a Jordan. That's why you get a LeBron. That's why it ain't that many. You get a Magic Johnson. Think about how many guys have won regular season MVP back to back and finals MVP back to back.

[Co-host Ocho]

There's a,

[Host Joe]

there's a re. That's not, that's not just an arbitrary thing. Yeah, you think about it. LeBron was the last to do it. Then you go Jordan. And I think Magic did it in 87 and 88, if I'm not mistaken. Don't quote me, but I think Magic won 87, 88 because he wore this. He won his third MVP, if I'm not mistaken, in 90. So when you look at it. Nah, Jordan snuck one in there. So Magic might have didn't win back to back. He might have didn't win back. He might have not won back to back regular season MVPs and Finals MVPs. I know LeBron did in 12 and 13 and I know Jordan. Right. So we've got. Okay, yes, I want to give, I want to give San Antonio deserve a boatload of credit. But the reason why an MVP is that a lot of times, more times than not, Joe, he's able to uprise above that. That. That's how he gets the award.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Host Joe]

Go ahead, Joe. Go ahead, finish up.

[Co-host Ocho]

I think with Shay, when you look at him though, he's not. He's not a real big physical opposing guy. I think his talent is really from sure will and hard work. Meaning, you know. Yes, he takes and make tough shots, but man, he, they, they, they. OKC ran up into a team bro who was just prepared. And it's different in the postseason when I can prepare and study and I. Yeah, and I can prepare and study your movements. I know you, you know your personnel super well. I understand patterns and how you move and what you do when you come off the pick and roll, what your size up is like in the isolation, what you're trying to get to, bro. They studied this man. They studied this man and went out and perfected the game plan against okc. Like, damn, we know shade ahead of the snake, man. If we could just slow him down a little bit. I ain't saying stop him, you know, just slow him down a little bit to where, you know, we're able to be effective on him. And I thought they've done a hell of a job.

[Host Joe]

Ocho. Huh?

[Co-host Shannon]

You say you shot 55 during the regular season.

[Co-host Ocho]

Huh?

[Co-host Shannon]

You think about the difference game to game, week to week, city to city, you're always playing somebody different. There's a certain level of comfort is you're able to study for a game or a team or a player for that specific week. Now we talk about a seven game series. I think that that would be the difference, I would think, in understanding on why he didn't shoot as well as he did during the regular season as opposed to the playoffs. Now on, on top of that, he's playing against some of the best defenders in the game.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Collectively as a team. Not just one individual, not just two individuals. You got three of them that he, that he has to deal with, you know, on both, on both ends of the court, offensively and defensively. So I think I kind of, I kind of agree with Joe and a little bit, and I understand what you're saying as well. Is there not very many back to back? Because regardless of the circumstance, regardless of scenario, they always rise to the occasion. But in, in this instance, in this series, he just wasn't able to. On how great those three, those three players were alongside having goddamn Wimby as well.

[Host Joe]

I just, I just think sometimes when we, when we, we like players, we give them the benefit of the doubt because of said Now Kobe scores 5% less. I mean score 5 point less, shoots 14 less, 10 less. Are we still saying, oh, Detroit's a great team or we gonna criticize Kobe? Because that's what happened.

[Co-host Ocho]

We're gonna criticize. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, and listen, if you can't. If okc, if Shea doesn't have a consistent number two in this postseason, fellas, he has to, you know, hope that guys come along for the ride. He, he don't know who's going to explode from game to game. He just has to be consistent. I think that was the toughest part for him because it's like, damn, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to take a lot of these tough shots, but I gotta hope that somebody comes along with this ride somebody catches hot. Cause we need a number two or even third guy to step up and help out with scoring to, for the productivity of the offensive side of the ball. And I just thought it was a lot of inconsistency in that, in that aspect. So therefore, if I only know, I really gotta worry about Shay, Uncle Ojo and the rest of these guys. I'mma live with some of those results, you know what I mean? And I just thought that's what OKC kind of ran into against the spurs team.

[Host Joe]

If you, if, if you look at him and, and I don't think he was very pleased with the way he played last year in the finals. He mentioned that, he mentioned that he did not play up to his regular season the way he played in the regular season. In the regular season last year he averaged 32.7. So he was down two points in the finals versus the regular season. He was down eight percentage points from the field goal percentage. He was down what he shoot from the three. I think he shot like 36, 37% from the three. So he was down 13% from that. So are we gonna. But see, we overlook some, see what we do is that we overlook those numbers that was substantially down because they won. Now we critique them a little more harshly. We like well damn, when you really think about it, damn. Okay, look, I don't, I think in the regular season, I mean, I don't really look at Shea as a three point shooter, Joe. Do you?

[Co-host Ocho]

I mean, I don't, I don't think

[Host Joe]

his average is high. It's like in the, hot, in the mid, in the mid to the high 30s. Because he's not a volume three point shooter. Say like a Steph Curry or some of these other guys, right? I mean he go three or seven, you know, three or eight, that's going to keep you at a nice percentage. But you know what I'm saying? And sometimes he might go, he might go 2 for 5. But he's not a volume guy. He's not looking to get up 8 to 10 to 12 threes a game. He's not like the Celtics guys or, or, or, or, or the Cavaliers. Some of these guys like that. Look, he's a phenomenal player. And I think the thing is, Joe, what happens is, is that when you critique a player's performance, people automatically assume you're trying to diminish what he's already done. No, he's a two time Finals mvp. I mean two time regular season mvp. He's done that. He's A final mvp. He's done that. He's a four time first team all NBA selection. He's done that. But I think it's, it's in order for us to do our job, Nightcap, collectively, we have to look like. Well, Joe, when you look at it, man, 26 points. And just think, if he didn't shoot that 52, 53% yesterday, Joe, he was going to be under 40, which is crazy.

[Co-host Ocho]

You're right. He's a, he's a rhythm guy. More, more so midi. And once he get his mid range going and get his, you know, driving to the basket going, the lane starts to open up and guys start to sag off, then that's when he'll sidestep you.

[Host Joe]

Shoot.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, he step back. He's not his first couple shots.

[Host Joe]

No, he's not looking to get the three. I don't know if I've seen, I don't know if I've seen him, Joe. And I've watched him probably about five to eight times in the regular season and I watched all their playoff game. I don't know if I've seen him open up with a three.

[Co-host Ocho]

Nah, they ain't what he do. He trying to apply pressure early, you know what I mean? He trying to get in the paint. It's almost like a big guy. He, he, he won his, he won his first shot. A first touch, as close to the

[Host Joe]

basket as he can get it.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then we open that up, we open that up and then look, they start sagging off when they, when they least expect it, I sidestep him, you know, and get one off. But for the most part, nah, he gonna make you play him honest. He gonna make you back up first.

[Host Joe]

And I love the part, Ocho this. What I, what I love is that the game plan they had yesterday and Shea got it going in that second and third quarter and they said, hey, if. And now superhuman Shaq.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

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[Commercial Announcer 2]

I hate to say it, but I

[Host Joe]

don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America. If he can take and make enough of those, we just throw our hands up and say we did everything we possibly deliver that. I don't believe with the amount of pressure that we're applying on him on both ends of the court, because we gonna make his ass guard, too. We got to guard his ass. Yeah, we gonna make his ass guard, too. Y' all go at it. Whoever has the ball, do not be afraid to go at Shay.

[Co-host Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Host Joe]

That's why you saw him late in the ballgame. You saw. You saw that chest going up and down. You saw those hands on those shorts. And, yeah, now if you. He realized it. So what he do? He start pump, faking, trying to get guys to jump leave their feet. Now he leans into him to go to the free throw line.

[Co-host Shannon]

The refang falls away.

[Host Joe]

He got him a couple of times, and I, you know, I tweeted like, hey, he getting tired, so he gonna pump fake it. He ain't going to his natural shot where he dive and just go straight up with it. That ain't what he was doing. He would dive and then pump because he felt those legs starting to get a little weary. They did a. They did a great job of hounding him. And if you make four, if you get to 45, making tough 18 to 20 footers. Joe, ain't nothing I can do. Ain't nothing I can do. You can do, bro. Look at it. Did you see the shots that man was making? It's like if I. If I blitz the quarterback. Oo. And I hit him, and I hit him, and I hit him. Yeah. And he completes those passes. They say, guys, we sacked him seven times. It's kind of like when Joe Burrow had that magical run through the playoffs. The Tennessee Titans sacked him nine times, but when he needed to put a drive together to get them in field goal range, he made every throw. He looked down. The battle of the gun. And then when they hit him under the chin, they hit him in his chest. He stood there. I ain't nothing I can do, guys. Kansas City sacked him. The Rams, even though he lost, look at the pressure that they applied. Sometimes you just gotta say, you know what? I did all I could do. I ain't Got nothing.

[Co-host Ocho]

I ain't got nothing.

[Host Joe]

Hey, I fired all my bullets. Hell, I threw the gun and I just took off running. That's all I had left.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, analytics, analytics say that those 18, 19 foot jump shots, those are the worst shots in basketball. That's analytically. That's why they either want a 3, 4 layup or dunk a damn layup, you know what I mean? And, and I think would come into. Speaking of Shay. Yeah. I thought he got tired, but he also was shooting such a great percentage that he made them jump. He, you know what I mean? Like he was making shots last night. So they like, damn, we gotta get up on him. So that's why those pump fakes started to come into play and they started to work. Yeah, I, I, I thought, I thought Shay done what he could, bro, but I, I, does he deserve the criticism? Yeah, because the standards are high for him. You know when you're an mvp, two time mvp, one time champion and you a back to back mvp. Yeah, man, the standard's gonna be high.

[Co-host Shannon]

And you think, you think about it too, Uncle Joe. You think about the accolades and the resume and what he's done so far early on in his career. And we hold them to a certain standard based on what we've seen, based on what he's already done. Well, hell, based on when you hear him talk, how many times do you hear a player take, take accountability. Accountability and hold themselves to that exit, that exact same standard. And he made no excuses. Yeah, no excuses. And, and, and this goes back to when I forgot what game it was. They asked him what can, what can she do more of you remember they asked me that question.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

And he didn't really have an answer.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

And I, I think having someone else with Jay, with Jay will being out having shit come along and being able to take some of that pressure off of him. I think this series would have been, they might not have won, but it would have been a lot different if she had just showed up a little bit more.

[Host Joe]

Yeah, they got some decisions, Joe. You know, Casey was doing extension.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, we have to do.

[Host Joe]

And they got a conversation earlier and Joe, you looked at me like I had four heads and 17 eyes. I said, joe, what you think about if they were to move, if they were to move on from J Dub? You like. Oh, come on now. How you, you are. You are. You will let Case and Wallace walk. You can't sign. But one of your, you got three first round picks. You could only sign one. You're about, you're A small market team. And I understand Ocho say when you win it, you keep it. But. But you know, them billionaire, they don't like to shell out no 200 million, no 300 million. Joe.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right? Yeah, I already know it.

[Co-host Shannon]

Especially if you're a Joe. How do billionaires feel if you already won one, you already won a championship.

[Host Joe]

I'll tell you how they feel. How do they feel? The Celtics felt so good about them winning a championship. He sold a damn team. That's how great he felt about it. He said, let me go ahead, get up. Let me go ahead, get my Ocho. You say when you go to the table, you win a little bit, you take your money.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yes.

[Host Joe]

Hold on. We just won the championship. I can keep trying to run it back and win more and spend 2,300 million dollars, or I could just go ahead and take my six and a half billion when I only paid 3, 400, 500, 600 million. No, I'm good. I'll let y' all figure that out.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah, he got. Yeah, he got out while it was hot.

[Host Joe]

That's the thing. That's the fine line that you gotta walk, because, okay, Joe, I'm winning a championship, but damn, I keep staying in that damn Secretary April, man. That thing tear my ass up.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, you gotta figure out, I think, for okc, because you gotta have scoring bro in that starting lineup. As much as I love Lou Dort and as. How hard is he, how hard he plays, it's gonna be hard, bro, when you don't have people who can relieve pressure off Shay and you putting so much on his shoulders for him to carry, and you ain't got but two offensive threats in your starting lineup. That's gonna. That's hard because the west is so tough. The. In the game. The NBA game has changed so much that, hell, if you can't score the ball, if you can't shoot the ball right, it's hard to play your ass.

[Host Joe]

It is. It is.

[Co-host Ocho]

It's hard to play.

[Host Joe]

Yes, because.

[Co-host Ocho]

So they got.

[Host Joe]

Go ahead, Joe. Go ahead.

[Co-host Ocho]

They got to figure that part out because it was so glaring in this series. And obviously, we're giving San Antonio, you know, all the deserving.

[Host Joe]

Respect, love and respect. But.

[Co-host Ocho]

But, man, when you. When you ain't got but two guys in your star lineup who can score the ball. Fellas. Hey, man, you got to reevaluate some things because guess what? San Antonio gonna be here for another 10, 15 years.

[Host Joe]

Okay, guys, y' all need to refresh or restart your browser. Because everything is good to go on our end. Joe and I and Ocho and I, we can communicate. So I think it's guys on your end. I don't think it's on our end. And the thing is, Joe is getting. Now that is getting harder and harder. Even if you're a defensive liability, it's getting harder and harder for you to play unless you're so extraordinary offensively.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

The thing that. The thing that made that. That made this the series is that everybody really could defend.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, that was the thing.

[Host Joe]

So just imagine if you can defend and you couldn't defend. I don't know how you play in the series because everybody, for the most part, especially from the guards, could take you out the bounds. Every guard from OKC could take you off the bounds. Every guard from San Antonio could take you off the bounds.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Host Joe]

If you couldn't defend, I can't play you. It's really that simple.

[Co-host Ocho]

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, fellas, we're looking at the two of the best defensive teams in the NBA this year.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah.

[Co-host Ocho]

Standing in San Antonio, okc. So it didn't surprise me defensively how gritty both of these teams were, how disciplined they were on defense. It was the offensive end that we didn't really know who was like, even for San Antonio. Although Castle was great, Harper was great, you know, Fox was a little inconsistent at times. Champagne made shots a couple games. Vasil made shots, didn't make shots. But the. The biggest difference for San Antonio, bro, they got so many guys who can score the basketball. So, okay, it's cool if two, three, our guys ain't making shots. Well, hell, we got one who can put up. Up 43 and 24 points. You know, you catch another 25, 30 from Castle or Harper, it's just. It's so much. And they're so young. Such. Such such a. Hell of a series, bro. The Thunder, really, really. Because they got so many assets. Uncle Ocho, the Thunder, that they got a great problem that they. That they ran into. Yeah, they got a great problem, bro.

[Host Joe]

I still believe they should have started case on Wallace instead of Dork. They've got to get more. Oh, Joe. They played offensively, though.

[Co-host Ocho]

They started Casey Wallace, they dork.

[Host Joe]

I can't start Dork. I might have to.

[Co-host Ocho]

I might have to go.

[Host Joe]

I might. I gotta get. I gotta get more production, Joe. I got to.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, I agree.

[Host Joe]

Think about what they going with. They had all five of their guys in double figures, and they cooking from the jump. And so if he's not really neutralizing anybody. And he's not giving me anything offensively. Joe. How do. How do I give him those kind of minutes?

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah, he's a liability, you know, and that's. That's damn near almost not fair to do it, too. What you mean because he'd never been the offensive weapon, you know, he's always a liability on offense.

[Commercial Announcer 3]

He.

[Co-host Shannon]

That he's there because of what he. What he's able to do defensively. Now, that comes on the onus of one of your other players who's on a Mac contract, him not showing up now. Because he's not showing up now we talk about Dort being a liability offensively when that's something he's never been.

[Host Joe]

I think it's a serious thing. Ocho, when you look at. Okay, how does thing match up? Okay, I gotta look. Okay. I'm hoping. I'm hoping that Chad's gonna give us what he gave us in the regular season. Season. I can hope that.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right, Right.

[Host Joe]

Hartenstein is going to be Hardenstein. We don't run plays for Hartenstein. We'll lob it. We'll dish it down to him. He'll hustle. Guy gonna get some extra points. He gonna put the ball. He'll give us some second chance possessions, and he'll give us, you know, he'll get a rebound and dunk it back. But I don't really have to run a set for him. It's the same thing for Dort. I don't really run sets for Dort, but when I got those guys, when I got Champagne and I got Vassell and I got Fox and I got Harper and I got Keldon Johnson and I got caught around. They got six guys that can take you off the bounds. All six of those guys can defend. Not all of them can't defend at the same level, but they can defend. The problem is.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Is that dork. The. The disparity with the scoring is such a drop off.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, it is that.

[Host Joe]

It's like you get three points, you get four points. Joe, the other night, we had. We had a bet. Will. He scored less than five points. He had five points in the second quarter, and he scored another one.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, I think. Hey, listen, I think with Lou Dork, if y' all remember, y' all know, game one, he started off on Wimby, and Wimby got off to that great start on.

[Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Co-host Ocho]

And he ended up having that 41 and 20.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yes.

[Co-host Ocho]

Ever since then, he didn't. I mean, he guarded him at times. But it wasn't his main assignment. We started to see Hardenstein guard him and be ultra physical.

[Host Joe]

That's what they should have started. I don't know. Yeah, Joe, come on now. You gotta see.

[Co-host Ocho]

I don't know how tall.

[Host Joe]

Let's just say six' four. Joe, really, you gonna start a guy that's six' four on a guy that got a whole foot advantage and a damn and a probably a 10 inch from span to span advantage on that? So what is he gonna do?

[Co-host Ocho]

Be physical. Be physical. Be physical with him. Push him around and wear him down. Hell, that's what I think OKC was thinking at first. But then it was such a disparity. When he started on the low block, hell, they were just throwing it up. He was just catching, dunking over, you know what I mean?

[Host Joe]

I'll come off on the rebound. What was he doing? Just right on the top. Let him give me that right there.

[Co-host Ocho]

So

[Host Joe]

look, I love. I love what Shea had. Shea had to say. He put their onus on himself, just like he did last year. He won last year. He said, but I don't think I played my best basketball. My job is to go back to the drawing board and see where I can be better, in which I will. He followed it up with another MVP season. He didn't complete the mission, which was get back. Because now you start getting to that elite, elite company. When you start talking back back to back regular season MVPs, back to back finals MVPs. There ain't been a whole lot of them. There have not been a whole lot of them back to back regular season MVPs. But to run that gauntlet, Joe, and to run that thing back,

[Co-host Ocho]

gotta be special.

[Co-host Shannon]

You know, it's funny, and the fact that it's almost unfair to him how well he's played, Uncle Joe.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Because now we hold him to a certain standard based on what he's done in the past, we're expecting to look like you've done in the past. So when you don't, as you look this series shooting a lower percentage, 55 in the regular season. And then what was he. What was it? This, this series?

[Host Joe]

41.

[Co-host Shannon]

41. You know, for. Hell, some players in the. In the NBA shooting 41, I mean, hey, that'd be good. That'd be great. But the standard that he said is so high, we're being critical of him because he's not.

[Host Joe]

That's what. That's what happened. You compare him to his. His great self.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, he did that.

[Host Joe]

He could have Been, he could have been marginal and average 19 to 20, Joe. And we, and guess what? We wouldn't even bat an eye, right? He went to the gym, he got better because he felt that, you know what? Yes, I'm in the NBA and I'm playing, I'm starting, but I think I can get to another level. Let me see. And tada. So now that is the level that he'll be held to even as he starts to get older. The level he'll be held to is a 26, 27 year old Shea that won back to back MVPs and a Finals MVP. That's what he's going to be. He's not going to be compared to these other guys that's going to come along and be great. You get compared, great players get compared to them young, their younger self, right? Is it fair? Whether it's fair or not, it is

[Co-host Ocho]

what it is, right? I, I, hey listen, okay, so you gotta, you know, in this series, bro, I think they got off to slow starts and damn, they did and that, I mean if even the game, even Game 3 in San Antonio, when San Antonio jumped out on him and they came back and walked him down and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, bro, I mean you might be on something about the Lou Dork situation. It's just when you don't have scoring in those positions at that small forward and two guard position, bro, it's, it's, it's challenging, man. And I thought, I thought the, the way the injuries stacked up against OKC with J Dub and AJ Mitchell being out, man, it was so much put on shape, bro. It was, it was, it was almost gonna be impossible for him to operate the way he's operated during the regular season because of the attention that's put on him. It's like hell, we ain't got to worry about these other damn guys. We'll see if they, we'll see if they can make shots. And I thought that's what OKC ran into. I mean every game this series, bro, even the games they won, I think they got off to slow starts in the first quarter.

[Host Joe]

What that does Joe and Ocho, is that it puts, it takes so much out of you just to catch up. Then when you catch up, do I have enough still in the tank to get over the finish line to sustain?

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Think about. Yeah, because they was down for the large part of the game and even though they caught him and went up, they couldn't really get that separation.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host Joe]

And, and, and, and it seemed like, and, and like Shea said. Shay said, like, bro, we caught up with them. And then they. We. They made big shot at the big shot. And they did.

[Co-host Ocho]

Big shot.

[Host Joe]

Champagne made big shot at the big shot. Dylan Harper made big shot at the big shot. Vassell made big shot at the big shot. He did. They did. And then when we hit a three women, like, I'm gonna go, nah. Hell nah. Damn that. Take this. I just think the thing is, Joe, I love what they have. But at some point in time, when you continuously start low, slow, and you constantly have to run so hard just to catch back up, how much do I have? Because if I know I got a kicker, I got to get out to it. I'm gonna make you run, because I know if I keep the game close, you can kick on the end. Yeah, the Kenyans did. What's the guy's name? El Garouche. Go back and look it up and see what the Kenyans did. They took the pace out. They said, we know we can't keep with you, but we gonna keep the. We gonna keep the pace. And they just alternated. They're like, I don't care if I'm going to go. We gonna take you down. My job is to make sure you don't win gold. I might win. My countrymen might win. Goal. Somebody else might. You not gonna win it. So what they're doing is that they're getting out of that pace and say, man, look here. We know Lou Dort. What? Help always coming from Joe. How many? They're like, he ain't gonna make enough of those rainbow threes to beat us.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, he not.

[Host Joe]

Yeah, Lou. Dork ain't gonna give you no 20 points. Lou Dort's not gonna give you 30. So I can't help off him. If you notice, they started shying away because at first they was helping off Caruso, and Caruso cooked them.

[Co-host Ocho]

He's in gym.

[Host Joe]

Wrong answer. Yeah. They say, hey, Casey, wallet and wrong answer. Hey.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

How you doing, Luke? Nice to meet you. Shoot all you like.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

You ain't going.

[Co-host Ocho]

When you. Wait, right?

[Host Joe]

When you.

[Co-host Ocho]

When you look at the championship teams, bro, to win multiple titles like you, you have to continue to tweak your roster.

[Host Joe]

You do.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah.

[Co-host Ocho]

You know what I mean? And you have to be willing to make some uncomfortable decisions. And I think this is what San Antonio has ran into. They gonna have to get rid of a couple of those. I mean, yeah, okc. They gonna have to get rid of a couple of those guys, man. You know, with all these draft Picks that they have, and the fact that it's some. It's some veteran guys who out there who. Who they feel like can probably help them.

[Host Joe]

They.

[Co-host Ocho]

They in a. They in a great position, man, if. If I'm okay. See, I ain't that pissed off. You know what I mean? Like, I can make some changes to where we can be right back there now. San Antonio gonna get better, though. Yes, they gonna get better.

[Host Joe]

And guess what? In a couple of years, they're gonna have these same damn problems because they're gonna have Dylan Harper up for a contract. They're gonna have Castle up for a contract. They're gonna have women up for a monster contract.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. And.

[Host Joe]

And For Sale says, hey, slide your boy. Hey, slide your. Slide your boy a little paper now, you know, compound out here, but I'm gonna need y' all to slide something.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, listen, I got.

[Co-host Shannon]

I got a question, too.

[Host Joe]

Go ahead, Ocho.

[Co-host Shannon]

I like that y' all said that, right? Is. The Thunder has some. Some very tough decisions now, obviously, you want to keep the main thing. The main thing, your nucleus.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

You know, Shea is one. He's not. You got. You got to have one more going behind him.

[Host Joe]

Now, I'm not surprised, Ocho and Joe, if one of those guys aren't moved, J Dub or Chet or check, one of them gonna get moved.

[Co-host Shannon]

Well, based on what we saw from shit, wouldn't he be the answer?

[Host Joe]

But they look at that like. Hold on, wait, hold on.

[Co-host Shannon]

You know. You know what you get from J Dub when he's. Yes, if he's not in. You know what he gonna give you regardless to the competition, regardless of who he's playing, he's consistent at what he does. Shed is the only one that's been up and down, and even he. Listen, I'm not saying he's. He's relaxed, he's been paid already, or. Or. Or he. He's content, but, I mean, he's playing Wimby.

[Host Joe]

Hey, Joe, let me ask you a question. I'm. Put your GM hat on. If we gave Wallace those minutes that we give J Dub, how you think he'll look?

[Co-host Ocho]

I think he'll look good. But why you can't play both of them, though?

[Host Joe]

But I can't pay both of them. That's why I can't play both of them. They say African country or Muslim countries, you could have as many wives as you like is what. As long as you can afford them. I only got so many goats, sheep, cattle that I could trade. I could trade the dad With I,

[Co-host Ocho]

I think that they two different players though. Like Casen Wallace is a defender, knock down shot. You know, he can knock down shot. He can run the pick and run. I think he a hell of a player. Yeah, J Dub is an all star. I think he's a. He's an all NBA caliber guy. And we, we don't take into consideration that the dude couldn't even play in this series, man. Like, you know, I, I think we take for granted what he brought to the OKC Thunder last playoff run, you know, and for them to have to go through this playoff run without him, man, it was, it's challenge. It was going to be hard for them to win. They needed. I think when you look at Check, he. He not only needs Shay, but to have J Dub alongside him to take some of that pressure off him and then he can just kind of, you know, be in the weeds and have good games here and there. But when you depending on him every night. Uncle Ocho.

[Host Joe]

Yeah, what we. Ocho, what we said? NFL. The thing that, the thing that will upset the apple car and the biggest killer of dreams expectations. You see what you said, Joe and J Dub, we got very little expected of Chet now. There is no J Dub. There's more expected.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah,

[Co-host Shannon]

well, hold on. It's only expected because we've seen him do it before. If he's not. If he never done it before. Joe.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right.

[Co-host Shannon]

It never looked good.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right.

[Co-host Shannon]

His money for a reason.

[Host Joe]

But he looking good.

[Co-host Shannon]

He got paid what he got for a reason.

[Host Joe]

And I got J Dub. I'm the third option. So that means I'm getting the third best guy. I got to score on the third best guy. I gotta defend the third best guy. Now what happens? You, you got to defend. You got to defend. Try to chase one of those small guards around or you got to deal with Wimby. And Wemby despised you because you beat him in the under 19 tournament and you got the MVP.

[Co-host Shannon]

You seen Wimby reaction?

[Host Joe]

Yeah, I saw Wimby's reaction.

[Co-host Shannon]

Hey, boy. He was.

[Host Joe]

Yes.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, it's, it's, it's. It's. That's a good thing to have when you got, when you got a player like that, bro. Who's, who's, who's pissed off about, you know, obviously not winning mvp. Check didn't even know. Check didn't even know it's. Somebody out there had beef with him the whole damn time. He didn't even know that.

[Host Joe]

He tried to downplay. Oh, you hear. You know, it's My team against his team. No, it's me against you that I. He's on one team, I'm on another team. And guess what? Yes. I want all the smoke. Oh, you. You're a cornerback. You a safety. You a linebacker. Okay. Yeah. It's a game within a game. Yeah, I know. It's the Broncos versus the. The Chiefs, but it's me against your punk ass, too, while you at it. So it's two games. Absolutely. Just so you know it.

[Co-host Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Host Joe]

It's just like, you absolutely. Get on the treadmill, Somebody took off running, and they got the incline at 2. They going about 4 miles an hour. I hear my 2.5. I'm doing 4.5. You jack yours up to 3. I go mine 3.2. We competing, B. Just so you know, we competing. What's up?

[Co-host Shannon]

He was scared of that conversation, of course. Yeah. Just the way he played. He shied away from everything, bro. He shied away from everything in moments where it mattered most.

[Co-host Ocho]

And that's what made it worse, Uncle Ocho. Because if you don't take it to him, hell, you play right into his damn hands. You know what I mean? It's just like, I don't give a damn. Cause he didn't block your shot a time or two, man. You got to keep going at that, man. Neck, bro. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because the times that I thought Check would catch catching the ball, he couldn't even. He wasn't even looking at the goal, man. I'm like, come on.

[Host Joe]

I heard a clip today. They was throwing it, and Tarico was saying, okay, is Check gonna get aggressive? That joker passed the ball off. I guess the answer was no. Hey, listen, I guess we got an answer, Joe. No. Hey, you know what? Let's go ahead and talk about Chad. Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring chok, and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Host Joe]

Lilly, a medicine company onPlus.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Host Joe]

Warning.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Commercial Announcer 2]

I hate to say it, but I

[Co-host Ocho]

don't trust much of anything.

[Host Joe]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

NBC News brings you clear reporting.

[Host Joe]

Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America, Chad Holgers. Vote about after the game, about whether he's trying to make up, make the matchup about him and Wemby. At the end of the day, it's always about us trying to win a basketball game. Us as collective, the Thunder team trying to win a basketball game. And that's what it's always going to be. Down the stretch. We gave ourselves a chance. We fought really hard. We just weren't able to put enough plays together to make it happen. A couple of our shots didn't go down. We just weren't able to convert. I'm going to have to go back and watch the tape, but I feel like where we were able to get a lot of really good shots and we really moved the ball well, we just weren't able to convert enough of them into points.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hold on.

[Host Joe]

I thought Wimby was the only guy on the court that was from France doing all this week. What do you mean we. You stop saying. See this. See, you see the difference. You see the difference between Joe and Ocho, what Shay had to say and what he had to say. Go ahead, Joe.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah, Two different mentalities out.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, two totally different. And the accountability is everything. Fellas, this is what we always talk about. This is why Shea is who he is. And check had to know, bro, that that man has smoke with him just by. Just by the competition level. You can tell when you walk out there on the court or, or. Or previous interactions that we've been into. Like, bro, you gotta bring it tonight. Like this man talk about how he want to win so bad. You know, he's willing to do any and everything, and he's playing like it. He didn't. He didn't answer the call, fellas. He didn't answer the call. And I don't like all that. I don't like all that wee wee neither. I like me to take accountability and be like, bro, I. I gotta be better.

[Host Joe]

I didn't play God. This was on me. I didn't play well enough. I'm an all NBA. I'm an all defensive selection, and I didn't play like that on either end of the ball court. And this one's on me, right? I want to apologize to the. Okay. The Thunder Fans. And I want to apologize to my teammates. Guys, I let you down now, but I promise you, if we're ever back in this situation again, it will not happen.

[Co-host Shannon]

It will be.

[Host Joe]

Don't do all this we. Because guess what? We ain't collect 240 million. You did. We weren't on the all NBA team. You were right. The difference is Shay accepts accountability, he takes responsibility. And that's how you grow. But see, to try to obfuscate and to try to place the baseball team. No, no, no, no. What shot did you shot that didn't go down. You only shot the ball two times more than me. And I didn't get my big ass up off the couch.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right? Absolutely right, man. Hey, hey. What he needs to do is go into this summer, try to do whatever he can, beef up a little bit, but change his mindset and attitude. Just work his ass off this summer, bro, and come back and try to be a huge difference maker. But I think they're gonna be a little. They gonna look a little different come next season, okay?

[Host Joe]

Yeah. Yeah. How you talking about? You don't know, bro. You know exactly who got backed up beef with you. You already got beat with you. You don't beat this man. And this man has made it abundantly clear. Yeah, he go out of his way.

[Co-host Shannon]

If we can see it.

[Host Joe]

He saw it too.

[Co-host Shannon]

We can see it.

[Host Joe]

Go to the grocery store, you see somebody you don't want to see, and you pretend like you Joe you in the eye. You know damn well you ain't looking for no spices.

[Co-host Ocho]

You up there looking at right, right.

[Host Joe]

You look like damn doing everything you can not to see him. Yeah, Chat, you ain't got no choice. He taller than you. So unless you looking at the ground,

[Co-host Shannon]

don't run.

[Host Joe]

Oh, you. Oh, you looking for me? I'm looking for you too. Hey, I just. I don't know. I just ain't wired like that. I'm on whatever you want. What you want.

[Co-host Ocho]

Because. Hey, hey. Because you know what never lies?

[Host Joe]

The energy.

[Co-host Ocho]

The energy never lies. When you.

[Host Joe]

When you.

[Co-host Ocho]

When you playing against your opponent, you can feel that energy. You know what I mean? Energy is the new currency, fellas. You know what I mean? Ain't no way in hell Chick didn't feel that when he was out there, bro. I felt that. I'm sitting here.

[Host Joe]

Why? Every time a women get the ball, he go at your neck. Every time he ain't looking to pass. Hey, if you watch with me, he get the ball on check, get up. Why he do that? To you.

[Co-host Ocho]

Because it's personal.

[Co-host Shannon]

He want none of that.

[Host Joe]

You can pretend all you want to that. Oh, it's a t. It is. It is a team game, but there are. There, there. There are personal battles, individual battles within the team game.

[Co-host Shannon]

I like that.

[Host Joe]

I like that. Yeah. Ocho against Is the Bengals against the Ravens. But Ocho trying to cook Chris McAllister and Dwayne Star. He knows in order for his team to have success, I've got to have success against these two mofos because there you go. We ain't got no chance of winning.

[Co-host Ocho]

Right?

[Host Joe]

Who we kid?

[Co-host Ocho]

Right. Game within the game.

[Host Joe]

I gotta win my individual bat. That's the number one thing. I gotta win my individual battle. It's something. I gotta block him. Sometimes I gotta get a pass. So I. Hey, whatever I gotta do, I gotta win. I gotta win my battle in order to help my team win.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Oh, you. Hello. You thought you could play like some stir fry and your team was gonna win?

[Co-host Ocho]

Hell, no. Yeah. No.

[Host Joe]

Okay.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, hey. But hey, he may have been thinking like that considering that he playing with a two time mvp, you know, I don't know. I don't know what he was thinking because I don't know how you play 33 minutes and only get up two shots. I don't know how you do that.

[Host Joe]

Don't. When you play. I don't. Look, I played with an mvp. I know the level that he played at. I saw what he was doing. You think I could go out there and pull my pants down and crap on the field? I gotta beat his level.

[Co-host Shannon]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

Yeah. Chad, how in good conscience can you play next to that guy? And you see what this guy does his routine on a date. This man just don't show up like that. And ball at the game. You have to see this man approach every single effing day.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

And that what you gave him, boy, you ought to be embarrassed. As a matter of fact, what you should do, you should come in there, say, hey, hey, hey, hey, Shay, can you meet me? Can you meet me tomorrow? Can I come over to your house? Yeah, what's up? Nah, I just want to talk to you about something. And you bring back every damn gift that he gave you with your head, bow. Don't look him in his eye.

[Co-host Ocho]

You gotta chill. You gotta chill. Hey, you gotta.

[Host Joe]

Hey, hey, Joe. You come in because you ain't worthy of having it. Damn it. The motor scooters, the golf clubs, the watches. Bring that issue back.

[Co-host Shannon]

The trench. The trench coat too. Get the trench coat back.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, hey,

[Co-host Shannon]

I wouldn't even be able to let my teammates down. I wouldn't even be able to let them down.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Just in general. Even if I wasn't the main. Even I wasn't the main man and somebody else was, and I know they are two, two time mvp. I understand I got to raise my level of play.

[Co-host Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Co-host Shannon]

Hey, mentally, I'm wired different.

[Host Joe]

Absolutely.

[Co-host Shannon]

Ocho Joe, mentally, you're wired differently. You rise to the occasion. I don't care who I'm playing against. I don't care what happened when we was 19 years old.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Today at our age. Oh, boy, you. You got to get it now. You're gonna win them all. No, you're not gonna win. Oh, Joe, you're gonna lose some time. Yeah, but I'm not gonna lose without giving no effort.

[Co-host Ocho]

But look, culturally, that's. Listen, culturally, fellas, that's who we are as people, right? As. As African Americans. We kind of built like that.

[Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Co-host Ocho]

You know what I mean? Like, we, we. We want our get back. We gonna get at you. We want all that. You know what I mean? Like, we want to smoke, bro. Everybody ain't built like that, man. Everybody ain't built like that, man.

[Host Joe]

Look here. Two plays that'll haunt me. One haunts me more than the other. But I remember in 91, I wasn't even. I wasn't even the thought of it, the guy that I was. And I dropped the touchdown. And it haunts me to this day. Yeah, I can just imagine being the player as. As you become more heralded. It hurts you more when you don't perform it do. Well, let me take that back. If you give a damn. If you give a damn, I care far too much. I invest far too much time. I promise you. Anybody, if I ever beat your ass one time in my life, I believe I can do it again.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hello?

[Host Joe]

Anybody? That's my brother stopped playing me in basketball. I beat him like, nah, I'm good, cuz. I'm good. And I. I'm just. I don't quit. We gonna fight. We fight every day. He get the best of me, but we gonna fight. I would get me a win. I can't believe Chet did this, man. I can't believe this man played like that and then turn around and talked about we. No, you. Yeah, how about you? What did you do? What did you do?

[Co-host Ocho]

Because I expected check to be the difference maker. I mean, what, he made the all defensive team.

[Host Joe]

Yeah. And he made 13 all NBA. So he was the opposite. He's a two way player.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right, man.

[Host Joe]

He must have missed better radio. Y' all remember them CBS you come out in the 70s and then walking

[Co-host Ocho]

to Come on

[Host Joe]

Porter wagon coming the at down the road. What it's looking like up there. That's the only two way he did. His defense wasn't that. His defense wasn't that good, cuz we be dunking on him left and right.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. He didn't have no big games this season. He didn't have not one big game. This not one.

[Host Joe]

I'm just. But irks me. I'm listening to this man talk and this man ain't putting. Ain't said I one time. How you go a whole damn sentence and the only. And you ain't got nothing. The only time you probably still. I'm gonna have to go back and watch the tape. I ain't never had to watch the tape, Ocho. You know what you did. Cause you in the damn game.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hell, I don't want to. If I played that bad, I don't want to watch it either. I already know what I got to do.

[Host Joe]

I'm going to the house.

[Co-host Shannon]

It's nothing too late. There's nothing to watch either, Joe. Nothing too wash. You got two highlights.

[Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

You got two hollers. That's it. And then contribute nothing all series long. And played your worst game in game seven where it mattered most.

[Host Joe]

You going home.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah. You didn't even give yourself a fighting chance. That's my only thing, bro. I'm telling you, I can live with missed shots, but damn, not even trying, bro. Like, we got you out here just running down wind sprints. You are all NBA player. You are all bro. We need you to take more than two damn shots. Yes.

[Host Joe]

But Wendy, he see Wendy on him and hell, he was like. He looked at Wimby. Like when me and my brother was tussling and broke my grandma china cabinet. I already know ass couldn't come in, Joe. Hey, hey, Spank, man, what we gonna do? We can't. We can't put. Hey, the glass broke. She gonna see. Yeah, we can only stand in front of. We can only be in the kitchen for so long and have us. Hey, before she said, boy, why you in the kitchen? Get your ass out this kitchen. You know you ain't.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Hey, Uncle Joe, he won't say it, but based on us watching, based on us playing the game at a high level, he was already beat mentally. He was already beat mentally. And you could tell by the way he played the Game based on the way he played during the regular season, the way he played in this series. Having to deal with Wimby and knowing when he's there. When we took. When we took a soul. When we took a soul. Just. Just based off competing alone, nothing else. Listen, he's not mentally wired to compete,

[Co-host Ocho]

but I think somebody going at it, I think this will be a defining moment for Check. Meaning he gotta take this summer seriously, fellas, and he gotta come back ready and prepared about that. That's the only way. I think, Uncle Ojo, that's gonna be one guy that's gonna be hard for OKC to get rid of because he's so young. He made all defensive team, all NBA team, all star. It's gonna be hard to get rid of that guy. Even though. Even if you saying, damn, we can go get Giannis. Hey, you gonna have Giannis for what, maybe two years?

[Host Joe]

The prop. The thing is, Joe, is that if you watch his game, there's really no fluidity to it. It's all mechanic. It's almost like he's thinking while he's playing the game, his shot, I mean, he's gonna. Hey, look how slow his shot is on the three. Look how slow it is, Joe.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah, it ain't.

[Host Joe]

Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing fluid. Ain't nothing smooth to his game.

[Co-host Ocho]

Hey, listen, they only play. Y' all do gotta remember now this the one team that really got their number. There ain't no other team can mess with okc, bro. I think we kind of have a tendency to forget because they just played a seven game series against the Spurs. But outside of San Antonio, I don't know if. I mean, yeah, if just if OKC has another team that gave. That will give them problems like the spurs did.

[Host Joe]

You're right.

[Co-host Ocho]

I'm not sure.

[Host Joe]

You know why, though, Joe? You know why? Because they were always able to hide him. He was always able to be helped. But what happens when you can't hide him, Joe? You grew up. You know, we had that clothesline in the back. Everything was on the clothes line. Said my grandma, underwear, you holding those on the fence. It couldn't nobody see those. You know what I'm saying? Everything else is up there. My grandma where we hung those on the fence and hope the Hogs didn't pull them down. So what happens when we can't hide it?

[Co-host Ocho]

Look, man, hey, hey. The man got to take a. A good look in the mirror, bro. Take some accountability. Try and do whatever he can to get better over the Summer and come back prepared and be another and be a different player come next season.

[Host Joe]

Hold on.

[Co-host Shannon]

And the only problem is. Hey, Joe. It's really not even being a different player. Right. All right. It's about improving, about working on your game. It's about your toolbox. I'm sure he'll probably hear some of the things that you've had to say, maybe having a little bit more fluidity to your game, you know, but he doesn't struggle like this against anybody else. Except one person.

[Host Joe]

One person.

[Co-host Shannon]

Y' all gonna meet each other again. Because you did say he's young. So the chance of him actually even. Okay, see, is probably not. If you put the GM hat on. You think about it. Yeah, he probably ain't going away. He's probably gonna be there, and they gonna meet each other again.

[Host Joe]

Guess who else he's also gonna meet? Ocho and Joe, who was that walk by the mirror every day?

[Co-host Shannon]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Host Joe]

He gonna meet that person every single day.

[Co-host Ocho]

That might be good for him, though, you know, because it should. It should piss him off to the point to where he. He should be. He. He probably should be in the gym right now working. I'll wait the next.

[Host Joe]

Yeah, because, I mean, he only shot. He ain't tired. I mean, shade dog tired. He ain't tired at all. I mean, tired of what you ain't. You ain't do. Ish.

[Co-host Shannon]

Hey, you know who we needed rhyming Joe.

[Co-host Ocho]

Who is that?

[Co-host Shannon]

Can you imagine if he. If. If some of shet friend is. Is some of us?

[Host Joe]

That. That. That.

[Co-host Shannon]

That let them jokes fly.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host Joe]

And.

[Co-host Shannon]

And in them jokes, there's a little bit of truth to it.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Co-host Shannon]

Oh, yeah. You'll be in the gym.

[Co-host Ocho]

Yeah. That's all he need.

[Co-host Shannon]

Flat quick. What you going out with us for? What you going on vacation for?

[Host Joe]

Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking, and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Host Joe]

Lilly, a medicine company. Honestly.

[Co-host Shannon]

Honestly.

[Host Joe]

Honestly. No one wants to think about hiv, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it things like PrEP. PrEP stands for Pre Exposure prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options, and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more. Sponsored by Gilead Paramount plus is now

[Co-host Shannon]

the home of all your BET favorites. What? Yes, with all new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorce Sisters. He's always liked a little drama, plus a whole new world of movies like Gladiator 2. Now I will control an Empire original series like the Shy.

[Host Joe]

Just make sure we protect each other in live sports like ufc. Welcome to the history books.

[Co-host Shannon]

New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount Plus. Subscribe now.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

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[Commercial Announcer 3]

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