Nightcap Hour 1: Jarrett Allen DOMINATES Game 7 vs Raptors + Don’t Forget About Ja + Pistons KNOCK OUT Magic

Summary

Nightcap – May 4, 2026

Episode: Nightcap Hour 1: Jarrett Allen DOMINATES Game 7 vs Raptors + Don’t Forget About Ja + Pistons KNOCK OUT Magic
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe (“Unc”), Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson, Joe Johnson
Podcast Theme:
A roundtable of former pros delivers unfiltered, lively, and immediate reactions to NBA playoff action—especially Game 7 between Cavaliers and Raptors, and the rising Pistons. The crew breaks down the pivotal performances, discusses key matchups for the next round, and debates what it takes to win in today's NBA.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into:

• The Cleveland Cavaliers’ decisive Game 7 win over the Toronto Raptors, fueled by a huge night from Jarrett Allen.
• Previewing the upcoming Cavs vs Pistons series, examining matchups and playoff pressure.
• The Detroit Pistons’ Game 7 demolition of Orlando, highlighting Cade Cunningham’s emergence as an elite playoff leader.
• A wide-ranging discussion about the evolution of NBA point guards, two-way stars, and the unique value of players like Ja Morant.
• Notable historical references and NBA storytelling, blending basketball insight with locker room banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cavaliers Defeat Raptors – Jarrett Allen’s Night (03:00 – 12:00)

Stats & Momentum:

• Cavs beat Raptors 114-102 in Game 7.
  • Jarrett Allen: 22 pts (7/11 FG), 19 rebounds.
  • Donovan Mitchell: 22 pts.
  • James Harden: 18 pts.
  • Evan Mobley: 13 pts.
• Toronto started strong, but once Cavs tied it at half, momentum shifted.

Cavs’ 3rd Quarter Takeover:

• Ocho notes how Cleveland “put their stamp on the game” in the third quarter:

  “Coming out that third quarter, man, I thought Cleveland really put their stamp on the game. They really locked in. … Jerry Allen was great the entire night.” (06:18 – Ocho)

• Joe details Toronto’s collapse on the glass:

  “You gave up 60 rebounds and 20 on the offensive end. Eventually that’s going to bite you in the bun.” (07:33 – Joe)

Allen’s Energy & Rebounding:

• All hosts agree Jarrett Allen’s relentless play was the game’s difference.

  “You hear 50-50 balls all the time… Jared Allen said, I’m a get 85% of the 50-50 balls.” (10:02 – Joe)

• Johnson adds:

  “If he didn’t have a game like this, I’m not so sure they win this ball game.” (08:34 – Joe Johnson)

• Ocho on what Allen’s big game means:

  “For Cleveland to be able to take the next step… they gotta have performances like this from Jarrett Allen and Mobley.” (11:00 – Ocho)

Home Court Prevails:

• Discussion on series format—each team only won at home.

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2. Cavs vs Pistons Round 2 Preview (12:00 – 19:54)

Matchup Analysis:

• Pistons get the edge for overall defense and length.
• Questions raised about Cavs’ ability to win on the road and pressure on Mitchell/Harden to produce.

Key Pistons Players:

• Cade Cunningham: “He’s going to get whatever he wants whenever he wants.” (13:16 – Joe)
• Jalen Duren: Concerns about consistency as an X-factor.

Cavs Challenges:

• Defensive assignment “Who’s guarding Cade Cunningham?” (16:55 – Joe)
• Ocho: “They gonna need a contribution from everybody, bro, just as well as Detroit.” (16:35 – Ocho)

Forward Matchup:

• Mobley vs Tobias Harris discussed as a key swing factor.

Quote Highlight:

“As we go further, I have yet to see James Harden… play some of his best basketball [in later rounds].” (13:28 – Joe)

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3. What Makes Detroit Dangerous & How They Beat Orlando (56:36 – 63:00)

Game 7 Recap:

• Pistons defeated Magic 116-94.

  • Cade Cunningham: 32 points, 12 assists, 2 blocks (NBA playoff history first: 30+ pts, 10+ ast, 2+ blk, 2+ 3s in a Game 7)
  • Tobias Harris: 30 points, 9 rebounds, 3 steals, 5-7 3PT (another playoff record)

• Ocho on Pistons’ resilience:

  “Pistons’ first series win in over 18 years… Cade was really, really special. He put the squad on his back especially in that game six down, 24 points and ignited that legendary comeback.” (57:26 – Ocho)

Jenkins’ Role:

• Stepped up as a shooter (5/8 FG, 4/5 3PT).

Detroit’s Identity:

• Defensive mindset: “They gave up 94 points. You give up 94 points in this league, you’re gonna give yourself a great chance to win.” (61:42 – Joe)

• Their success is “defense first, not trying to outscore you.” (62:46 – Ocho & Joe)

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4. The Evolution of NBA Point Guards & Two-Way Stars (36:03 – 48:45)

Lack of ‘Pure’ Point Guards:

• Joe and Ocho bemoan the decline of traditional pass-first PGs.

  “Conventional point guard don’t make no money… It’s 100 million, 200 million. I’m trying to score!” (37:05 – Joe)

• Scorers get paid: Luka, SGA, Brunson, Cade – all max-contract, high-scoring lead guards.

Ocho Sticks Up for Ja Morant: > “I ain’t leaving out Ja Morant… If he gets comfortable, he’ll be back at the upper echelon of point guards.” (38:08 – Ocho)

Two-Way Guys are Rare:

• Unanimous that few guards can truly lock in on both ends for whole games; Cade Cunningham, a possible exception.

• Classic NBA historical reference — Magic Johnson, Stockton, Oscar Robertson, etc.

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5. Historic Playoff Feats & NBA Storytelling (68:37 – 75:21)

Cade Joins Elite Company:

“Players in NBA history with 225 pts, 50+ assists in a single playoff series: Cade Cunningham, Giannis, Luka, LeBron, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson.” (68:37 – Joe)

Defense and Playoff Survival:

• Praise for Detroit’s ability to hold Orlando to 19 points in a half (“That’s a 90s type of game. 79.” — 62:20, Ocho/Joe)

NBA Lore:

• Anecdotes about old-school stars:

  • Klay Thompson’s 37-point quarter, Kevin Love’s 34, David Thompson’s 73-point game, and George Gervin’s scoring exploits. (70:05 – onwards)

• Banter about legendary dunk-on moments, big men getting “poked on,” and the toughness of Shaq.

  “When you block shots… you gonna get poked though. Even the best corners gonna get what they gonna get.” (52:15 – Joe)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Jared Allen said, I’m gonna get 85% of the 50, 50 balls.”
  – Joe (10:02)

• “You need these other role guys… you can’t put the whole onus on Mitchell and Harden to win them this next round.”
  – Ocho (16:35)

• “If he didn’t have a game like this, I’m not so sure they win this ball game.”
  – Joe Johnson (08:34)

• “[Cade] is special, Uncle Ocho. … He got what it takes.”
  – Ocho (58:15)

• “When you play on a team with Joel Embiid … you know what the expectations are. [Detroit] is just starting to get that.”
  – Joe (26:19)

• “You miss a point guard who can really control situations.”
  – Ocho (36:24)

• “Maxi. Yes, sir. … Tell me what all them point guards got in common—they can score that ball!”
  – Ocho (38:53 – 39:04)

• “Defense gotta find out… I know you can win a game if it starts getting in the 20s, 30s, we know… but under 20? I don’t believe you can win a game that’s under 20.”
  – Joe (63:50)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:00 – Start of NBA playoff analysis, Cavs-Raptors breakdown.
• 06:18 – How Cavs took control in 3rd quarter; Allen’s impact.
• 10:02 – Allen dominates 50-50 balls; rebounding discussion.
• 12:00–19:54 – Cavs vs Pistons series preview, matchup debates.
• 56:36 – Pistons-Magic Game 7: Cunningham, Harris, Jenkins’ performances.
• 62:10 – Pistons’ defensive mantra, holding Orlando to low scoring.
• 36:03–48:45 – Point guard evolution, two-way defense discussion.
• 68:37 – Cade joins all-time playoff greats; NBA history talk.

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Final Thoughts & Predictions

• All three hosts lean towards Detroit having a slight edge over Cleveland in round two due to their defensive identity and depth, but acknowledge Cavaliers have the star power to turn a series.
• The conversation underscores how modern NBA success hinges on scoring guards, versatile bigs, and depth—while celebrating the rare player (like Cade Cunningham) who does it all when the lights are brightest.

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For fans: This episode is a master class in playoff basketball talk—the personalities are as big as the stakes, and every breakdown is both sharp and hilarious. Whether you missed the games or want deeper insight, the Nightcap crew gives you everything from X’s and O’s to all-time NBA anecdotes.

Transcript

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[Ocho]

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[Joe]

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[Ocho]

I thought it was a great first half, Uncle Ocho. Neck and neck, obviously. Tie game at the half. But coming out that third quarter, man, I thought Cleveland really put their stamp on the game. I mean, they really. They really locked in. I thought James Harden got going, Donovan got going. Jerry Allen was great the entire night. They got great contributions from pretty much everybody who played. And it was good to see, man, because honestly, I know James Harden and Donovan Mitchell. You know, they hear the whispers, bro. You know, whether they acknowledge them. Whether they acknowledge them or not.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

No, they hear the whispers because we've all spoke about them and about them being great in the postseason and what a game for them to come through for the squad. Everybody played great, but I just thought Cleveland were the better team. Nobody won on nobody's home court. Everybody. Everybody took care of home court. Now, what did we say when the series started, Uncle. Uncle Ocho, I think we all pretty much felt that this was gonna go seven games. Yeah. And it did. So home court advantage prevails. Now what Cleveland has to figure out is, you know, can they be good on the road, bro?

[Joe]

Yeah. Because they don't have home court.

[Ocho]

Nope.

[Joe]

What's cons? What? Look, I thought Toronto lost this game. Guys on the offensive glass.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Gave up 20 offensive rebounds. You was minus 27 in the rebounding category. They had Cleveland 60 rebounds.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Toronto 33. Well, if you give up 60 rebounds and 20 on the offensive end, eventually that's going to bite you in the bun. But there's no what they have plus 20, 22, 23, maybe even 25 points on second chance points. You cannot allow a team to constantly pound you on the offensive glass, and then somehow you think you're going to win this ball game.

[Ocho]

The game. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

It's just not going to happen. And Jared Allen, this is what the. This is the Jared Allen that everybody.

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[Joe]

He was an all star a couple years ago. Guys. And this. And when. And when he plays like this, they're very difficult to beat because you don't run plays for him. He gets everything off the glass. He's diving to the rim, he's catching lobs. He's an outstanding defender.

[Ocho]

Oh, man.

[Joe]

Hey, he picked a great time to have his best game because I'm afraid if he didn't have a game like this, I'm not so sure they win this ball game. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

I was gonna say the same thing. I'm not sure they win this ball game either. If you look at Harden and you look at Donovan Mitchell, the numbers they put up tonight. But it. Look at. Look how many shots they had to put up to get those numbers. They didn't really shoot well. They weren't really efficient because of Jared Allen's play is one of the reasons why they won this game. And honestly, I'm going. Tell you the truth, Joe. I'm watching the game in the beginning, the first quarter. I mean, the way the. The way they. The way the Raptors came out, I'm thinking, well, hell, it's going to be a long night for the Cavs.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Donovan was missing early. You know, James Harden, you know, he hit a shot here and there, but they really couldn't get anything going offensively. Goddamn. I go in here to get me a goddamn coffee from Starbucks, I come back at the goddamn half, it's tied up.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right.

[Joe Johnson]

Then in the second half, Donovan, Donovan Mitchell. Get going. Jared Allen, king of the goddamn board. He's snatching everything off the board on the offense and defensive end.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

That results also second chance points and

[Joe]

the results of rebounds by himself. Yeah. Than what Toronto had as a team.

[Ocho]

It lets you know something.

[Joe]

Rebounding is about want to. Because you look at a guy like a Charles Barkley, 6 foot 4, led the league in rebounding. You look at a guy like Dennis Rodman that led the league and rebounding, what, eight, nine times.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

He wanted the ball.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I want the ball more than you Want it. I have a greater desire to go get the ball that, that, that doesn't belong to either one of us. But my desire to go get it is greater than yours.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Tonight I thought Jared Allen's desire to get the basketball when it was, could have been anybody. You hear 50, 50. You hear that all the time. Joe and Ocho. Hey, we got to get those 50, 50 balls. Jared Allen said, I'm gonna get 85 of 85% of the 50, 50 balls.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

And he did that tonight. I agree. Donovan did not have his best game, but when he needed to make shots get going in the third, he did.

[Ocho]

He did.

[Joe]

James Harden was in attack mode, and sometimes this what he needs to do. Yeah, if your shot's not falling, hey, bro, and I get it. Shooter, shoot. The next one's going to go in, but put pressure. Hey, let's just see the ball go in the basket from the free throw line and maybe it opens up. Maybe the, maybe the lock is unlocked on the rim. But I thought James Harden did a good job of putting pressure on them. But tonight, tonight belonged to their defense because they were outstanding. Yeah, Toronto didn't make, look, Toronto didn't make any shots. They didn't help their situation. But I thought this tonight belongs to Jared Allen.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I, I, I agree with you on, I thought Jared Allen was great. You know, rebounding is really energy and effort, fellas. You know what I mean? Like, I, I think that can always be a constant. I think for Cleveland to be able to take the next step, Uncle Ojo, they gotta have performances like this from Jared Allen and, and Mobley, you know, they, they need those guys to step up and play great because the one thing we know about the playoff, the game slows down. And if, if I'm, if I'm a team and my focal point is to slow down Mitchell and Harden, then you got to have these dudes with energy and effort. Plays Mobley and Allen, bro, they shouldn't, you shouldn't be able to guard them. We ain't really got to run a whole hell of a lot of plays for them. But if your energy and effort is a constant, bro, you gonna do more good for us than not, you know, And I think with Allen, hopefully he takes, he takes his own to the next series because they gonna need them boys to play huge, bro, in order to be able to, you know, continue to, you know, move forward in, in the rounds.

[Joe]

I thought Cleveland got a great play. Go ahead, Osho, go ahead.

[Joe Johnson]

I'm gonna ask the cav the Cavs got who next now?

[Joe]

Detroit.

[Joe Johnson]

Now most of the time when it comes, just like when it comes to boxing, styles make fights.

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[Joe Johnson]

It's all about matchups. Now when you look at the matchup between the Pistons, the Cavs, who you giving the edge to?

[Ocho]

Well, Pistons. Yeah, you giving it to the Pistons.

[Joe]

I do.

[Joe Johnson]

Even with them two bigs down there.

[Ocho]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. My thing is when you look at Orlando, you know, I know Wendell Carter and obviously Ben Carroll was special, but I, I, I, I like Mobley and Allen, you know, hell, they probably gonna get during some problems down there if I'm just keeping it 100.

[Joe]

Yeah. I think the problem is the matchup is Mobley because it's probably, he's probably going to draw Tobias Harris. Yeah, he's going to draw him. The question is, is he going to hover around the three point line or is he going to get his dad ass down there on the block where he had a decided height advantage. Right. But if you look at that back, you look at Cade, Cunningham and Thompson can defend their asses off.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So if you think they struggle shooting the basketball against Toronto.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You got two guys that'll get up into you.

[Ocho]

I agree.

[Joe]

And they don't have anybody that's even comparable on the defensive end to deal with. To deal with Cunningham.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Cunningham is going to be able to get whatever he wants whenever he wants. They just got to hope his shot is really, really off because they ain't got nobody to stay in front of him. Yeah, they got nobody to do anything with Kate. He averaged 32.

[Ocho]

I agree.

[Joe]

The last series, so I would be surprised if those numbers aren't the same in this series. I would give a slight edge. Now look, Cleveland has been here done that before, but it's all, it's just something about. As we go further, I have yet to see James Harden as we start to get to the second and third rounds. It's been a while since he's played some of his best basketball. I'm not so sure. Donovan Mitchell, we have to look this up. And I'm just going off the top of my head, has he ever been past the second round?

[Ocho]

I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

[Joe]

And he hasn't played well. We go back and look at the series now. He's had some outstanding performances. He's had some games where you like, oh my God. And you look at his scoring average, he's averaging 28, almost 28 and a half points a game in his Postseason career. He got a 57 point game, a 50 point game. He's been sensational. But normally what we've seen from him, when we really need those type of performances. Yeah, we haven't been able to get them. When we really need those type of performance from James Harden, he'll give you one. Now there's gonna be a seat, there's gonna be a game or two in here where James Harden gonna look like James Harden.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Donovan Mitchell is going to remind everybody. Yeah. This is why I was the first team all NBA. This is why I go to the all star game every year. But man K Cunningham and Thompson on the defensive end is going to be a problem now. Now am I going to get Jalen Durham that I saw today, the guy that got me 15, 15 Joe?

[Ocho]

I don't know.

[Joe]

Can I get him?

[Ocho]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Joe Johnson]

So that, that's. That's two people, right? That's two people. That's actually. That's three people. You're not sure what you're gonna get in the playoffs, right? We're doing. We don't know what during. We're gonna get time to time the first double double.

[Joe]

He had his first double double. Ocho and Joe in game seven.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Now we talk about, we also talk about Donovan Mitchell. We talk about James Harden. James Harden not having the playoff performances that we're used to seeing when it comes to regular season.

[Joe]

He.

[Joe Johnson]

They can, they can get hot, they can get streaky. They just haven't been able to do it yet.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Now it's about Jared Allen. Can he summons it up consistently in the seven game series? Hell, maybe it might even go to seven if you don't have to. Can he show up and play like he played tonight and give you 22? Can he dominate the boards?

[Joe]

Well, yeah, but see, and the thing is, what you like about it is that I'm not running plays for it, right? He's getting everything he's get because he's diving. He's. Hey, he's grabbing rebounds, putting it back. I don't got to run no plays. Okay, Clear out one side. AKA hey, give it to me. He ain't not even calling for the ball like that.

[Nicotine Warning Announcer]

No, no, no.

[Ocho]

Hey, but listen, I'm gonna tell y' all something. Jared Allen would definitely be the key. Like, like I. Like I spoke before, his energy and effort, but his defensive paralys that he has, I think he gonna really make it tough for Duran. You know, obviously you're gonna need mobley to play huge. Because like you said, it's gonna be hell on Harden and Mitchell when you got Thompson and Cade guarding those two guys.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

And make it tough for them. Yeah, they. They gonna have their hands for. So they gonna need help. And like we always talk about your stars on your team, bro. They gotta win you at least two games in a series.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

You need these other role guys. You need guys like Allen step up. Mobley step up. Maybe Streets come off the bench and give you something great. Schroeder may even win your game. But you can't put the whole onuses on. On Mitchell and Harden to win them this next round. You know what I mean? They gonna need a contribution from everybody, bro, just as well as Detroit.

[Joe]

Yeah. And my concern is you, Cleveland, who's guarding Cade Cunningham, Donovan, Mitchell, James Harden. I want to know who's guarding him because he's going to get whatever he wants. Ocho, Joe, switch.

[Joe Johnson]

Excuse me if I'm wrong. Can they trade off or no?

[Joe]

Or you just. They both need to take him because those two are not defenders.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they. They not defenders. And what you want to do is a guy like K is give him different looks. Give him different looks, Uncle Ocho. Because y' all know the. The great ones in this league, the superstars, the mega stars, bro. You give me the same look, I promise you at some point, I'm gonna figure you out. It may take. It's like boxing, you know, the first round, we just trying to kill each other out.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[Ocho]

Yeah. But after a while, I'm gonna figure out your coverages. I'm gonna figure out who guarding. And I know that the. The initial guy who's guarding me, I know he can't stay in front of me. I just need to know where the help coming from.

[Joe Johnson]

Right, Right.

[Ocho]

And I think that's gonna be the biggest key for Cleveland because James and Mitchell, they got to sit in their chair. This game coming up, I mean, this series coming up, and this is where Duran comes in.

[Joe]

Because when I beat. When I beat Mitchell, when I beat Harden, and I will. And I know those bigs are coming. Yeah. I'm gonna drop it down to you and kick out. Try to pull the rim out the backboard. Yeah, yeah, I know they coming. Yeah, yeah. They got no choice.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So it's going to be very. That's going to be. That's what I'm looking to see. How we start this game off, what is going to be our defense? How do we look? Thompson is an outstanding defender. He's not looking to shoot the basketball. Kudos. The second best player on the, on the the pistons was Tobias Harris.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

He was sensational the entire playoffs.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That first round.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And he got to go. I was like, when you turn into Kobe.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

How you get 19 and a quarter?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Ain't you?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

He got cooking. K. Hey, I I early on Joe, I was like, here we here go Cade and Paulo again.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

They own, they own that dookie. They own that ish again. I said this is another 40. And had the game been closer, it probably would have been 40 for the both of them. Maybe even 50.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[Joe]

We're going to talk about this game that Cade got a little bit. Got a lot more help than what Paulo got. But looking at this ball game, that's the thing that concerns me. I'm gonna give a slight edge. But they're a young team. They're a young team. Detroit is. But Cleveland, I don't know if you can get nine of nine or 20 from Donovan against that team. Ocho and Joe and he's kind of, he's kind of been inefficient in the first round of playoffs. Now this is his fifth time advancing to the second round. Yes. He's never advanced past that round.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And a lot of times he's come up small. It is what it is. This is not a knock on him. We can't take that. He's been an all star. We can't take away. He's been an all NBA player.

[Ocho]

When I damaged my car, I was worried it could be a long process

[Joe]

to take care of it.

[Ocho]

Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge maze.

[Nicotine Warning Announcer]

I've definitely already been here, but the

[Joe]

Geico app let me file a claim in under two minutes. It feels good to get help quick.

[Amazon Health AI Announcer]

It feels good to Geico.

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[Joe]

at

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[T-Mobile Announcer]

Get intelligent performance and enhanced security and seamless coverage with Super Mobile from T Mobile. The best business plan on the best network. Discover [e-mail] best business plan based on combination of advanced network performance, coverage layers and security features. Best network based on analysis by Ooklo speed test intelligence data 1H 2025 include trademarks used under license and reprinted with permission. T Satellite available with capable device in most outdoor areas where you can see the sky.

[Nicotine Warning Announcer]

Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Velo Nicotine Announcer]

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[Nicotine Warning Announcer]

underage sale prohibited nicotine pouches Velo plus is a synthetic nicotine product website restricted to age 21 plus nicotine consumers. Copyright 2026 MBI he's been that.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But we can also acknowledge two things can be true. He's been a great player until he's gotten to the playoffs, especially in the second round.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

Do you think.

[Joe Johnson]

Don't you think Uncle Joe. Well, matter of fact, don't you think his chances are a little better for the simple fact that Detroit is so young? Being that they're so inexperienced in situations like this, especially being in the second round of the playoffs. Well, the edge to the two. The two veterans. Well, James Harden and Donovan Mitchell.

[Ocho]

What you have to understand is Toronto has a great defender in Scotty Barnes, who I thought made it tough for Donovan this whole entire series. Yeah.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

But hell, Detroit got one just like Scotty Thompson. Thompson. You know what I mean.

[Joe]

K. Cunningham can be on the all defensive team. And he can score. Yes. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah. They got guys who can. They got not only score the ball, but they got, you know, guys who are very great defensively. Uncle Ocho. And making you uncomfortable, taking you away, taking you out the game plan, making you play four on four, man. I was watching tonight, man. They face guarding James Harden and Donovan Mitch. They don't even care what's going on behind them. They ain't even.

[Joe]

Because they don't feel they got anybody that can beat. Hurt him.

[Ocho]

Yeah. So we gonna see. We gonna see who can beat us, but it ain't gonna be you two. And I felt like that's what Toronto kind of did in this series. They just let. They. They let the game get away from them in the second half. And Toronto is a young team obviously missing Brandon Ingram, who definitely could have helped him. I know he wasn't playing the best, but having his presence out there, he probably would have got you a game, and they needed that. The thing that's most glaring about a young team, bro, it's hard to win on the road. Yeah, it is hard to win on the road.

[Joe Johnson]

So, uncle, you say you got the Piston, Joe, who you got this series?

[Joe]

No, I said I gave. I give a slight edge to the Pistons.

[Joe Johnson]

I mean, but that's basically like, look, they won.

[Joe]

They won 60. Look, they won 60 games. Yeah. That's not. You can't sneeze at that.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

An 8C gave them all they could handle. They found a way to go. Think about it. They were down in game six. They were down 20, 24 points. Yeah. And the final way on the road, Joe, they're not very many teams that are that young that could have found a way back into that ball game and win that ball game and get into a game seven. Now, when they got into a game seven, they still had something in the tank that says we're going to bring it home now.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I agree. I. I think you.

[Joe Johnson]

What you got, Joe, who you got in this series? You think?

[Ocho]

I. I'm. I'm probably. I'm lean more to a Uncle. I'm g. Give Detroit that slight edge because.

[Home Depot Announcer]

Damn.

[Ocho]

Because the one thing Detroit showed me oo, especially in the games they won. Yeah. It's how they won 60 games, bro. Defense. They are defensive team. They're not an offensive juggernaut. Yes. They have K who is special. Obviously the pad the last two, three games for Tobias Harris. Uncle Ocho. Nice. Oh, my God.

[Joe]

Well, he been out his damn.

[Joe Johnson]

Nice.

[Joe]

And maybe because, you know Joe, he. He If I'm not mistaken, didn't he start in Detroit? I think he started in Detroit, went to Philly and came back to Detroit. So maybe that's what.

[Ocho]

That's what that he played in Orlando. He played in Orlando too.

[Joe]

Okay, but. And, and I haven't seen this guy now, this guy that I've seen in this series. Okay, now I see why you got that max contract. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

I think maybe he a little bit more comfortable down in Detroit as opposed to being in Philly.

[Joe]

Less expectations. See, when you play on a team with Joel Embiid, you got a team with Ben Simmons and you got that expectations when. What were the expectation of the Sixers championship? Yeah, Detroit. Now Detroit is just starting to get that.

[Joe Johnson]

Right.

[Joe]

But see, when you got. When you got a guy, an MVP caliber guy, and then you end up having James Harden on your team, you know what the expectations are.

[Ocho]

Right. I. I think it was tough for Cade and Philly. I mean, not Cade, Tobias and Philly, because his offense, yeah, they needed it at times, but it wasn't a. It wasn't a constant meaning, like, you know, he was basically getting scraps. Uncle Ocho they wasn't beating. And I think with the Pistons, they needed him to assert himself and be that second option next to Cade. Because during. Although he's an all star, he could potentially be an all NBA player. He's not an offensive guy.

[Joe]

Nope.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he averaged 20 and 10, but I'm not. We not throwing him the ball and telling you, go get us a bucket, bro. Right. You know what I mean? And what, what Tobias done in this series, bro, he gave him life. Now hopefully he can continue to assert himself and be aggressive regardless if he miss or make shots. I don't care if he go 3 for 18, 4 for 20. But you have to assert yourself because Cade needs that, bro. He needs a guy who can really go out there and get it.

[Joe]

And plus, the fact of the matter is that when you look at it, when you had Tobias and Ben Simmons on the court and they already know Ben's not gonna shoot, and then Tobias is not a threat, now you're basically playing for. You're playing for. You're basically playing five on three.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Joe]

And you said something interesting, Joe, he was the third option.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

After J. After. After Joel Embiid done posted up 55 times. James Harden went ISO 36 times. Able to ain't but a handful of left, right?

[Ocho]

Absolutely, absolutely. So he kind of had to figure it out on the fly. And he Got beat up because of that contract he had. Yeah. Yes. You know, make. Making a lot of money. He probably. He was the highest paid player on the Sixers team, if I ain't mistaken, at that time when he owned.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joe]

What made it even worse, before I look, before you go, Joe, is that they had Jimmy Butler and they let Jimmy Butler go for him. Okay. Give that to him.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Maybe Jimmy wanted to go. So I don't know. But I'm saying they had Jimmy Butler. And we know what Jimmy is, especially in the postseason. Now, he might not give you 24, 25 in the regular season, and he might just coasting, but come post season, different animal. Go ahead. What was your thought now?

[Joe Johnson]

I was really piggybacking off what you already said. You said it already. But, baby, first round, who you got? You got the. You got Detroit or you got Cleveland? You got who? Detroit.

[Joe]

Yep. There you go. There you go. French fry. French fry. Say I got the Pistons.

[Joe Johnson]

You sure?

[Joe]

Say yep.

[Joe Johnson]

You don't want to go say Cleveland like daddy say Cleveland.

[Joe]

Nah, don't do that. French fry. You like to win.

[Joe Johnson]

All right, you gotta go to bed. Go to bed. Go to bed.

[Ocho]

Go to bed. Hey.

[Joe]

Bye.

[Joe Johnson]

Say bye. Say bye. Bye.

[Ocho]

Bye. Hey. Yeah, but. But I. I get what y' all saying about Detroit, and I'm leaning more toward Detroit, but I'm not putting them past Cleveland, bro. I know Donovan and James Harden, they. They can be special.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

You know, they didn't have to do a whole hell of a lot this series. They had home court. But in this series coming up against Detroit, they gonna have to win a game in Detroit. I expect one of them to explode. Probably. Probably looking forward to Donovan having one of them explosive games. For sure.

[Joe]

That's what it's going to take. Because now you just can't just hold serve at home. Because if you hold serve at home, you're going to lose four, three. You're going to have to steal one. And the thing is, when you steal a game, can you consolidate it? And that was the issue that we saw with Orlando. They stole a game. They stole game one. But when they got to Orlando, they couldn't consolidate it. They couldn't put it back together. And they had a 24 point lead. And in the span of eight minutes into the third quarter, it had evaporated.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

And think about it. They held him to 19 points in two quarters. In 24 minutes of basketball on a team, one team held another NBA team to 19 points. Tobias has had 19 points by himself. In the third quarter, man. So we know what they can do defensively. And that's how they get out. They get out. If you saw today what they do, they locked it down. Look, Bankero had it going early, but it says, okay, he might get 50 or 60, but none of the rest of you guys gonna get jacked. And that's how they ended up winning the game, going away. But I thought Cleveland did what it. I was very surprised because I'm looking at Cleveland like, Cleveland, do y' all realize this is a game 7? It's on your home court and y' all playing like this.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

But I also thought Toronto helped them out a lot. Joe, I don't know what it is. And we're going to talk about the sixes. What it is when you get a lead, Joe, you, every time you come down to court now, you try to make three threes in a row to try to just like kill them. They, I mean like, you just tried. I'm like, I mean it ain't enough. It ain't enough that you got a team down team. You know what, we need to get them down 19.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

And they come down and they take these ill advised threes. When you can work the ball and get a two, it's okay to go up, go up, go up two as opposed to going up three.

[Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

And it was just back to back, just taking ill advised shots. I'm like, man, this, I'm like. And I get it. It's a three point league now and everybody want to shoot them, but everybody. Just because, just because you're allowed to, that doesn't make, that don't make you a great three point shooter because you got a green light. And it seemed like everybody got a damn green light.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, hey, look, the analytics in the game, Uncle Oo, they love the three ball, but damn that. I'm like, I'm like, you, you get a nine, ten point lead, bro. On the road, man, you, you, you really have to hone in on to what got you that lead. And that's just being. Continue to be stingy on defense, but at the same time, offensively, move that ball, man. Get the best. Look, I thought that, that Toronto was going for those daggers. They was trying to put them dudes away. Yes, they trying to go up 20 with one shot. Like, bro, you gotta keep chipping at the league, keep chipping at the lead and continue to play great defense. Cleveland back in the game. Oh, they, they in trouble because not

[Joe]

only did they let Cleveland back in the game. They let the, the crowd back in the game.

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

So now all of a sudden you had the crowd at bay and now you let them. And like you said, Joe, you're trying to go up 15, 16 points with one shot.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

And now all of a sudden, what could have been a 12 point lead, now all of a sudden they come down and get one that's an eight point. And then you come down and take another ill advised 3. I just thought that, I just thought there were too many times you was trying to. And it's the second quarter. Yeah, Joe, I get it. If it's late in the ball game, you want to take one or two of those, but it's the second quarter. The likelihood of you winning a game in the second quarter is not very good. Because that team's gonna make another run at you.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah. Especially at home.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, they're gonna make another run at you.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir. Yeah.

[Joe]

And, and, and, and I just feel, I just felt they let the game get away from him at that instant right there. And you, like once, once Cleveland tied this thing up at the, at the half, I was like, yeah, Toronto, y' all done.

[Ocho]

You gotta, hey, you gotta hope Toronto, you know, they can build on this. Obviously, experience is the best teacher. Those young dudes got into a, a great series. Push the Cavs, which is a. You know what, Cav?

[Joe]

Three seed calves are four.

[Ocho]

Four seed. Push the four seed to seven games and then you really had a great chance to win in seven. You know, you just blew it, bro. For, for whatever reason. Just ill advised shots, you know, Just advised. But they're a great defensive team and obviously with, with the postseason. You have so many injuries, Uncle Ocho. I just think they miss Ingram, you know, who could have definitely helped them win a game or two in this series. Now I know he wasn't playing great, but to have him out there, bro, he would at least, he could at least been, you know, been a difference maker in one of these games.

[Joe]

But in all honesty, Joe, Toronto still needs something. I still don't see a guy that they can go get a ball to. I, I mean, if you look at the teams, they got that one guy that I can go get a ball to and he gonna get me a bucket. Do is bi. That guy is Scotty Barnes. That guy is RJ Barrett. That guy. What, what, what are they missing? I still feel like they're missing something.

[Ocho]

You. They missing. They missing a good point guard. Like, like we always talk about these guys who are Twos and threes masquerading as point guards. Yeah, I like Scotty Barnes, I like RJ Barrett, I like Ingram. But these guys ain't points, Uncle Ocho. No, they are.

[Joe]

They.

[Ocho]

They can play, make, they can score. But I'm talking about a guy who can bring the ball up, initiate the offense. Okay? Boom, we see RJ Barrett just made two in a row. Okay, let's run a play to where we can get him another look. Or we see Ingram got it going. Let's see how we can, you know, keep him involved, keep him engaged, and Scotty Barnes do whatever we can to get him little points, some, maybe some. Some backdoor cuts, something to get him going. Because defensively, he's the best defender they got. And I think he uses his defense to fuel his offense. And I think Scott is a hell of a player. They got some great talent, but, like, I'm like you. They need a guy who they can really put in a pick and roll, who can. Who can create mismatches and make plays.

[Joe]

But.

[Joe Johnson]

But hold on, Joe, think about this, right? And you say it all the time, too. You think about the way the game has evolved, right? And the way Joe is explaining them needing a point guard. But the kind of point guard that they need, from the sounds of it, is not one that can score. It's not one that can put the ball in the hoop, just a traditional point guard that could facilitate and create for others. How many of those are there in today's game anyway, Joe?

[Ocho]

They don't. They. They don't exist no more. I mean, maybe they exist, but it's hard. It's hard to find a point guard who can score and facilitate. They just. Not just sitting around here. You feel what I'm saying? Yeah. Like that. The point guard in today's game, Uncle Oo, is equivalent to the quarterback, bro. They're the most important player on the team. Right? You know what I mean? They set the table, they give directions, they keep everybody organized. And when things get chaotic, they are the ones who typically calm you down. Calm everything down. Yeah. And I think with Toronto, although they got great pieces, you definitely need somebody at the helm who can really control situations.

[Joe]

And plus, the thing is, n. Joe, a conventional park guard don't make no money. Nah, it's too much money out there. It's 100 million, 200 million. I'm trying to get that. I'm trying to score. Damn your offense. I'm just keeping it real. Look at all these guys. Look at all your top point Guards and see how much they make. Default on a max contract. Luca on a max contract. Shay on a max contract. Look at all your top part. Jalen Brunson about to get a max contract. Look at K. Cunningham on a max contract.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Look at all your point guards. And you see what they make. Now, Cade. Cade and Luca might be the big at playmaking and still being able to score.

[Ocho]

Yeah, Right.

[Joe]

But most of these guys, what is Shay, Shay. My average, four assists a game.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, look, my thing is the one guard you left out, Uncle Ocho, we hadn't talked about because he hadn't really played a whole hell of a lot this past season with it. But I ain't leaving out John Morant, bro.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

I ain't leaving out John. I think if he gets in a situation to where, you know, he can be comfortable, he can play his game, he'll be back at the upper echelon of point guards. As far as. Because. Because he's a. He's. He's a showstopper, bro.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You can't stop him offensively, you know, once he's locked in, he can't quit.

[Joe]

He.

[Ocho]

Oh, my God. And I just feel like, you know, he. He needs a fresh start. You give him a fresh start, I. I think he can really get back to being a top five PG in this league.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, but that's what you think he gonna be down here in Miami. That's exactly what he gonna be. Because we got the structure. We got the exact structure that he needs. So that's. That's neither here nor there. He'll be back.

[Joe]

And our other point guard, we didn't talk about, Joe.

[Ocho]

Maxi. Yes, sir.

[Joe]

Max contract.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe Johnson]

Maxi.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, tell me what all them point guards got in common. They can score that ball.

[Joe]

Put that ball in the bucket and

[Ocho]

they put pressure on the defense. They put pressure on you, man.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Hey, they. Hey. Blocking fine block. Oh, but he'll be the best blocking, running a wide receiver in the league. Yeah, he make 8 million a year, too. The one that catch passes and get the ball deals on JoJo.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

They made 35, 40 million dollars a year. Hey, so you. You see.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Joe Johnson]

That's. That's a great analogy.

[Joe]

I like. I like that.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, but go ahead, Joe.

[Joe]

Go ahead, Go ahead.

[Ocho]

I was just saying at that point guard spot, bro, you got to be different. I mean, these guys are way too good nowadays.

[Joe]

They are?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Like I said, they're masquerading.

[Narrator]

If you walk into a room and can't remember why. It could be nothing or something more. If you confuse a familiar recipe, it could be a slip up or it could be associated with amyloid plaque buildup in the brain. Amyloid is a protein that your body produces naturally, but a buildup in the brain could lead to memory and thinking issues. To see what may be behind your memory and thinking issues, talk to your doctor about getting a full assessment. It's never too early to start the conversation. Visit amyloid.com to learn more.

[Amazon Health AI Announcer]

Amazon Health AI Presents Painful Thoughts I

[Amazon Health AI Patient]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

Joe, the days of having a Magic Johnson and a Stockton and, and. And Jason Kidd, that's over. Maurice Cheeks. I mean, talking about the old school point guard, those guys that would just look, hey, they averaging 15, you know, 15 points, but they averaging 9, 10, 11 assists. Yeah, you kiss that goodbye.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey. Hey, Joe, you ever played with Jason Williams or played against him?

[Ocho]

Which one?

[Joe]

White Chocolate?

[Ocho]

Yeah, I played against him. I played against.

[Joe Johnson]

What would he. Would he. Would he fit in today's game?

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he would. Yeah, but he will fit in. But they go at him too, though. They gonna make his little ass guard. Yeah, make him guard. He's special offensively.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Offensively he's special boy.

[Joe]

But.

[Ocho]

But defensively, yeah, he probably. He would have probably been a liability. I'm just keeping.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

And that.

[Joe]

What did they do? Prime example is greater offensive threat as Luke is. What did they do to him?

[Joe Johnson]

They put his ass in the pick and roll.

[Joe]

What they do to him? They put his ass in the pick and roll. So you guard.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Okay. You giving us hell on the other end now. Let me see you on this end.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

So that's what you got to do. That's what you got to do. You get a guy like Iverson. Look, I'm sorry. I. I know you're gonna give me that work. You cross my ass over, but hey, I got to give you some work on this end.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

See, that's why everybody started going to the big guards.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Big guard now. Big guard. You try, okay, you try to post up, you. You go try to post up Jordan at six, three.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You were trying to post up Kobe. You were trying to post up D. Wade.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joe]

So now everybody, what they got, they got these big ass. Started getting these big ass point guards.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You know why the point guards never posted up? The only point guard posted up was Oscar. And then all of a sudden, about 10 years later, 15 years later, you got another guy named Magic. Magic Johnson.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That he could post up.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Cause he was as big as your Power Force. He was as big as Summertimes as You sinner.

[Ocho]

Yeah, and you gotta.

[Joe]

And you got. Hey, you got a point guard trying to. Come on, man.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Joe]

And he developed that little, he the junior sky hook. He was unguardable.

[Ocho]

Yeah. And that's what they started doing. Them little point guards, they start bringing in these big guards like the Penny Hardaways.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Ocho]

You know, Penny used to post up a lot and they got a big point.

[Joe]

Jason Kidd was a big ass point guard.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Who post up and play and made plays. Yeah. J.K. about six. About six, four years. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

He looks short as. He looks short as hell on TV from when I used to watch him.

[Joe]

A prime example. Another guy, Jamal Murray. What they do to him, they go at his ass on the other end.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

You got that killer crossover and you sidestepping, hitting threes. Okay, now come out here and play some defense.

[Ocho]

That's how they slow down. That's how you gotta slow them down. You gotta slow em down. Look, if you, if you, if you only exerting energy on the offensive end, then you know, you, you, you conserving your energy defensively. It's like, oh no, we got to make his ass work. Cause he gonna try to give us 40, but we gonna make his ass work on this defense end just as much, just as hard as he working on this offensive end trying to score.

[Joe]

And what did make. What was McDaniel doing making his ass work on the offensive? Hey, hey, get in your chair now.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

You try to give me that work, I'm about to give it to you.

[Ocho]

There you go. There you go. And it takes a lot.

[Joe]

That's, that's how you got to go at it.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I agree.

[Joe Johnson]

Well, hold on. Y' all didn't talked about all, all the ones that can score on the officer and they get put in the pick and roll on the defense end. Yeah. Who's the two way player? It gotta, they gotta be one person that's special, that can do both.

[Ocho]

No, that ain't necessary.

[Joe]

Hey, Cunningham.

[Ocho]

Yeah, that's it.

[Joe Johnson]

Just, just one.

[Joe]

Did you not see KK was picking Apollo?

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, I'm just saying he's the only one.

[Joe]

It's a real Ocho. It is rare that you get guys that can. Legit, I'm talking about legit. That's a wing player play offense. I ain't talking about because Joe, we get this. The last five minutes of the ball game, everybody lock in. Yeah, yeah, the last five minutes. Because that's the clutch time and that's winning and losing ball Game, but I'm talking about from the snap, from the jump. You talking about a Kobe, you're talking about a Jordan, you're talking about a LeBron. You talking about guys like that. A Kawhi when he was in his prime. Yeah, ain't very many.

[Joe Johnson]

Hold on. You. Y' all. Not. Y' all ain't even mentioned Shay.

[Joe]

She ain't no defensive guy. Ocho Wallace. That's why they got Caruso. That's why he got all them guys. That ain't what he's supposed to do.

[Ocho]

Hey, he may not be a defensive guy, but damn it, you can't just go at him. You can't just go at him. Uncle Ocho. Like, he'll sit. He'll sit in that chair and guard. I. I think when you look at the guards that's left in the postseason right now, you know, it ain't but a couple guys who can guard and go at you. Obviously, Shay k. Maxi guards when he really wants to, but outside of that, it ain't many left in this postseason, fellas.

[Joe Johnson]

No.

[Joe]

You know who can guard? Who Etchem.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

Hey, don't sleep. Hey, he can guard.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he can guard. He can.

[Joe]

Hey, look, and another guy. You remember Westbrook? Westbrook was offensive, but what we gonna do?

[Joe Johnson]

Oh, he gonna get in front of you now. He gonna.

[Joe]

Yeah, guess what? That's what I want. That's what I want.

[Ocho]

Yeah, but he gonna exert a lot of energy because he's gonna exert a

[Joe]

lot of energy because he gonna be. Because he 100 miles an hour, Ocho. The thing that I love about Russia is that he gonna try. He understands that he. He's not the best defender, but it's not gonna be from lack of effort.

[Ocho]

Oh, no.

[Joe]

Some of the guys like, okay, you gonna get yours? I'm gonna give you 50 on my end. You give me 35. I plus 15. Who cares?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Nah. Westbrook one coming like that, bro.

[Joe]

Hey, that a. How he. That ain't how he think.

[Ocho]

Nah, nah. All game. He bringing it, bro. All game.

[Joe]

He. He both in, but it's. It's rare. Oo. It is hard now. And because the game is so open.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You ain't got no. You. I mean, there are a handful of teams. There are really two teams. They're the Cavaliers, and they're the. The. The Thunder that play conventional, right. With a four and a five.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Everybody else got the floor spaced.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So it's hard. Cause the flood. The. The. The. The. It's so wide open. So to try to defend and. And they running you off a thousand picks.

[Ocho]

That's hard, man. That's the hardest thing to go in the NBA, bro. Garden that pick and roll, and you the guy getting picked, and you got to get over and get under.

[Joe]

Yes, fight over that, son. Fight over that. Fight.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, you know who fight through everything, obviously, since I didn't got into basketball, you know, having to watch with y', all having to come on here tonight. Young bull with the dreads from. From the Spurs.

[Joe]

Oh, you talking about Castle, man.

[Joe Johnson]

He fight through every.

[Joe]

Every. Hell, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

I got to have it. I got to have it. Where you going? Hey, you going left. I'm going left. You going right? I'm going right.

[Ocho]

Hey, he could defend.

[Joe]

He. He should be at all. He should be at all. NBA defender, too.

[Ocho]

Yeah, and he got some nastiness to him, too, for sure, that I like.

[Joe]

I love that. I love that.

[Ocho]

I mean, because when you think about it, in order to win, bro, to win a title, you're gonna need guys like that. Who a little chippy. Who a little borderline, what they play aggressive defensively. Yeah, and he. You know what he gonna do offensive attacking, you putting pressure on the defense. He can shoot the three. He. He ain't really got no weaknesses, man. He gonna pick you up full court, Uncle Ocho.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, them spurs gonna be. Hey, boy, they gonna be tough to beat. They gonna be. They gotta plethora guys so they can throw at you like that.

[Joe]

They got a bunch of guys that can defend. And plus they got. And plus, they got the guy with the broomsticks. Hand is standing up over the backyard. Once you get past them, he making you think second. Damn. Oh, I beat my man. Oh, damn. Let me. I gotta pull it back out. You think it's long and hard, Joe, before you go in there, you see him in the bank. Oh, yeah, all that floating stuff.

[Ocho]

Look. Hey, hey, look. What I notice is when guys get in the. When other teams get in the paint against the spurs, they. Their initial focus is not to score the ball. They put a damn dump off. Like, damn. Hey, look, when you got a guy like Wimby, bro, when you attack that paint, he the first person you looking for. I make this lay up here. I know he way over there, but here he can come get my. From outside the box. Yeah, he ain't even got to be in the paint, so.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, am I. Am I tripping, Joe? Didn't y' all try to dunk on Wimby, or am I tripping? That Was somebody else.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he did dunk on Wimby.

[Joe Johnson]

Okay, I know.

[Ocho]

Hey, hold up, Ocho. But understand something now. When you're a shot blocker, bro, you gonna get.

[T-Mobile Narrator]

You.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you gonna get poked on from time to time. That's part of your job.

[Joe Johnson]

Hold on, John. Hold on, hold on. Joe. Josh short now.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he's special.

[Joe Johnson]

I know he play. I know he play above the rim, but.

[Joe]

Yeah, he likes six. Two.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, that boy got battery. They get. He got batteries.

[Joe]

Yeah, he got. He got pogo sticks on, I'm telling you.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, he bouncy. He bouncy.

[Ocho]

Hey, that boy. Hey, that boy can get up, but. Yeah, he caught him. He caught him. He had that thing. Had that thing way back here. Anything way back here when he come through there.

[Joe]

You hear me? Yeah. And you want. I mean, the thing is. I mean, like I said, hey, hey, if you block shots, I don't care who your great shot blockers are, right? Kareem, be it Duncan, be it David Robinson be it Elijah, one who at Mark Eaton.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

You gonna get poked, though. Even the best corners gonna get what they're gonna get. Yeah. At some point, hey, somebody gonna go take one off the top. Like how you, bro, they pros, too. You make it seem like it was an ordinary guy came out the stands and did that.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

You think you. You think Shaq been dunked on before?

[Ocho]

Hell, yeah, I think he been dunked on before.

[Joe]

We can pull the footage up. You damn right.

[Joe Johnson]

I ain't never. I ain't never seen that.

[Ocho]

I mean, he played in the NBA. I know he.

[Joe]

That's right.

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Joe]

Unless he didn't play at the NBA.

[Ocho]

I know he used to talk about Cash trying to dunk on him, and he said that was one thing he wouldn't allow. He wouldn't allow nobody to dunk on him.

[Joe]

We finna find it.

[Ocho]

Let's pull up,

[Joe]

Google it. We'll put it up.

[Joe Johnson]

Chat. Chat. Y' all ever seen Shaq get dunked up?

[Ocho]

Hold on, hold on. When you say dunk on Ocho, you talking about, like, chest to chest, body to body?

[Joe Johnson]

I mean, would anybody really challenge Shaq if he's sitting right down there in the post?

[Ocho]

It's probably it. Probably he'll hurt you. Shaq type will hurt you.

[Joe]

You coming there if he thinking about it. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But sometimes, you know, you don't. Hey, you were thinking, you just like, I'm gonna block this, and boom. Hold up. Look up. Derrick Coleman.

[Ocho]

Derek Coleman dunked on him.

[Joe]

We finish yeah. Hey. Oh, that's like. You win the NBA. You ever been hit hard? You wide receiver? You a running back? You damn right, Right?

[Ocho]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

I. I don't know. I just, I just can't get the visual. I just can't get the visual because I understand how aggressive Shaq is, especially when they're down there. Got in the goddamn post, boy, and somebody trying to dunk on him, man.

[Ocho]

Look, look, look. Oo, I just can't see it. The boy laying wood. Pause. He laying wood. You come down there, homie, like, hey, hey. I'm telling you what I know.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

I done been down there a few times. Not trying to dunk on him, but I done got a couple hard fouls from. I know what a hard five feel like.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, it'll keep you. It'll keep you up out of there. Yeah, it'll keep you up out of there.

[Joe]

Hey, it, it, it's just a part of the game. It's just part of the game. Yeah, and it's probably easier for somebody because you. That's. You not expecting it. And before you know it, especially, you got these quick dunkers. You got some guys that just go up there and then some guys are boot. Before you.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Before you know you.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. You got to see the one when CP dunked on Dwight Howard. Y' all ever seen that one? Chris Paul dunk on the white Howard? Y' all ain't never seen that?

[Joe]

I ain't never seen that one.

[Joe Johnson]

God,

[Ocho]

man, that man come off that picking roll. Come down.

[Joe]

Hey, Joe. Ocho. What happened to her? He was better.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You see that thing? Hey, I'm telling you, that thing is at least seven to ten days.

[Joe Johnson]

No, no, I'm good, I'm good. Huh? No, you could. No, you can hear about my voice.

[Ocho]

I still.

[Joe Johnson]

I got my high pitched voice back.

[Joe]

Chad, what you think? Is he good? Did y' all hear it?

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, you heard, you heard me. Hey, this the tail. This is the tail end of it. This the tail end. You know how you know I'm good, Joe? You see how high my voice is?

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

My sexy voice gone now. So that's how you know your boy back in the business.

[Ocho]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey. That little cough still got you in a little chokehold, but yeah, you got your little high pitch back.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, a little bit, A little bit. A little bit, a little bit. I know one thing. I got the AC on 75. I got that 75. Yeah, man, I told her, don't I Told him don't touch. If you touch the AC again, I'm taking away all your toys.

[Ocho]

How old is your daughter but 10.

[Joe Johnson]

10. And French fry. Four French fry too. She got the little step stool. She go up there, know how to

[Home Depot Announcer]

turn the AC down.

[Ocho]

Oh man, come on.

[Joe Johnson]

Both of them. Told you. You touch the ac, I'm taking all your toys. I wish I could show you a picture, Joe. She got the AC on 60, then she got this. She got a fan. You know the fan from Walmart. The little stand up fan from back in the days.

[Ocho]

Yeah, a little box joint.

[Joe Johnson]

They got a little box box fan pointing at them on the bed and they sleeping with the damn window open.

[Ocho]

Go.

[Joe]

Hey, hey. I tell you what. Oh, Joe Google Derrick Coleman dunks on Shaq.

[Ocho]

He got him and then did this.

[Joe Johnson]

Hold on, let me, let me see.

[Joe]

The Pistons beat the Magic 1 1694. K Cunningham was sensational. He had 32 points, 12 assists, 2 blocks. He was 4 of 6 from the 3 point line. He was plus 29 going into the going to the second round for the first time in his career. Cade is the first player in NBA history with a 30 point, 10 plus assists, 2 blocks, 2 made threes in a game 7. But he wasn't alone to buyers. Harris. 30 points, 9 rebounds, 3 steals, 5 of 7 from the 3 point line. He's the first player in NBA history with 30 points, 5 plus rebounds, 3 plus steals and 5 plus made threes in a game 7. This was a definitely a two headed monster. Joe, what. What was the most impressive thing about what you saw from Detroit and how they dis dispatched the Orlando Magic?

[Ocho]

I mean man, the, the, the credit that you have to give Detroit. Uncle Ojo. Yeah, I mean even starting back to, to, to game six. I mean the Pistons first win in over 18 years. You know this one they definitely deserve. I thought Cade was really, really special. He put the squad on his back especially in that game six down, 24 points and he ignited that legendary comeback and got it to a game seven. What I thought tonight, I just thought he got to his spots easy. He created offense with 12 assists, getting guys involved. Obviously Tobias Harris was great. I thought that you know him and him and K played great together. Especially the, the pick and roll that those guys were running. You look at during Uncle Ocho, 15 points, 15 rebounds. Obviously his best game in the series. Yeah, and he got the last damn laugh. You know we can talk about whatever we talk about but during got the last laugh and you think about it, we talk about Jenkins, you know, in Cade's absence throughout the regular season, how special he was. Uncle Ocho, Tonight Jenkins showed up, he made shots. Five for eight from the field, four for five from the three point line. And I just thought it was a great team effort, obviously led by Cade and Tobias Harris. I don't think any team will have an answer for K. He's special. He's special, Uncle Ocho. He got it. He got what. He got what it takes. And I think they, they've learned a lot from playing this Orlando team. Being down 3:1 and able to fight back, bro. It's only been a handful of teams who've done that. Being able to fight back and win the series. I think they'll take this momentum against Cleveland and there'll be a much, much better ball club.

[Joe]

Well, watching this ball game, I mean, to watch, I mean, you get to buys goes 11 of 18, five of seven from the three. You get Cade go 10 of 18, four, six from the three. I mean it was. Durbin was five or nine. He was 15 and 15. Thompson only, I mean, Thompson only took five, five shots. Yeah, he was, he was sensational. Like I said, Apollo needed somebody to go along with him. Desmond Bay didn't get. Desmond Bain needed to be 25, somewhere between 25 and 30. They needed to keep the game close because Paulo had it going.

[Ocho]

Oh, man.

[Joe]

Just needed somebody else to come along with him. Yeah, he had a plus one, but the guy didn't show up.

[Ocho]

No.

[Joe]

So he had to go it alone. And he did as much as he could for as long as he could. But at the end, when you get two guys going like they had it going. And then our guy came in, Joe Jenkins.

[Ocho]

Jenkins, yeah.

[Joe]

Hit that three. She had that three at the buzzer in the third quarter.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And then Cade find him in the corner with a kick.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Another three at the fourth.

[Ocho]

I said, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Ring.

[Ocho]

They had, they had the momentum, bro. They had the momentum. But shout out to Paulo. I thought to start the game, Uncle. I said, oh, he's gonna go for 50 today. That, yeah.

[Joe]

Apollo what we expected.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

This is who you are. This what you saw, what you've shown the last two games. This is who you are. No more of those teen, those teenage games. I don't want to see no more. 15, 16, 8. No, no, no, no. Him you too good.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

With that body, with that skill set, that man can put it on the floor. He can shoot the mid range. Obviously he can shoot the three. He can get all the way to the basket, bring it home. He can bring the ball up the court. Offensively, he got no weakness. I don't want to see no more teenage games from you. Apollo, you too good for that?

[Ocho]

Yeah, he gotta take.

[Joe]

Hey, you need to be a start being a first or second team all NBA player.

[Ocho]

I agree. I think he gotta, he gotta get in a little better shape. Ojo living that weight room this summer. Tighten that body up a little bit, come back even better. Use this momentum to kind of spring forward you into the next season. And hopefully Orlando can, can tease it, they can stay healthy and be a great team. But when you look at Detroit, they showed you why they won 60 games.

[Joe]

Yeah, 94.

[Ocho]

They gave up 94 points. You give up 94 points in this league, you're gonna give yourself a great chance to win. They hang there.

[Joe]

When they give up last game, what they give up last game. I don't think they get. I think. I don't think they gave up 100 points last game.

[Ocho]

I don't think so neither. I don't think. Let me see.

[Joe]

And look. Hey, hey. Look at what Orlando shot 41 from the floor, 33 from the three. You keep a team shoot down in the low 40s, you win a lot of games.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they. Hell, they, they, they score 79 points in game six, remember? Because they had that.

[Joe]

Okay, okay.

[Ocho]

Orlando only scored 19 points in the second half.

[Joe]

That's a, that's a, that's a night. That's a 90s type of game. 79.

[Ocho]

And listen, hey, I don't know if they can. I don't know if they can be this great against Cleveland defensively because they got more guys who can really. They got more firepower. But if they can be in the ballpark, they gonna get themselves a great chance. They can't get in. No. They can't try to outdo a cleat.

[Joe]

No, no, no, no. Don't try to outscore.

[Ocho]

Nah. Hang your hat on the defensive end and let it fuel your offense.

[Joe]

What, what do we hold up? How did we get here? We got here with defense.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Y' all got No, y' all not. Okay. See, y' all not one of these teams that just get up and down. That ain't what y' all do.

[Ocho]

No.

[Joe]

Sometimes you see a lot of times, even in boxing, Ocho. Which is your sport. Yes. Is that. You see somebody. Well, I'm gonna beat him at his game.

[Joe Johnson]

Why you don't play?

[Joe]

You know, it's like Sugar Ray. Sugar Ray and, And Hagler.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm gonna box him. Hagler, you a southpaw.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Why would you go conventional? Why would you go orthodox? To try to prove a point. The point is that you believe that you're better. Damn. How it happened?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm not getting to know I'm a the Giants. Like, you know what? We not finna try to outscore the Patriots. We're gonna lock y'. All. Let's see if y' all can win. Let's see if y' all can win a game where it's under 20 points. Do y' all win a game like that?

[Ocho]

Right?

[Joe]

I don't. I don't believe you can. I don't believe you can win a game that's under 20.

[Ocho]

Defense gotta find out.

[Joe]

I know you can win a game. If it starts getting in the high 20s, they start getting in the 30s, it gets in the 40s. We know because look at the firepower that. The arsenal that you got.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

A lot of times, Ocho, when you go to war, you don't try to. What we do, we try to sneak attack you. You know what I'm saying? We get a couple. We get a couple of rogues out there.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You know what I'm saying? Now, conventional. We can't beat you. Conventional. I got too many. Got too many people in your military.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now they don't even send the ground troops in. Now. Everything is with drones. They got drones and they got. They got these. They got pinpoint, like. Yeah. Oh, that's where you hide that right there.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joe]

That's where you at right there. They got the bunker busting, bombs hit, spin down about a mile or two, then explode.

[Ocho]

Damn.

[Joe]

Yeah. See, we. That's the kind of stuff we got. So I'm looking at. I'm looking at the Pistons, man. I was very impressed. I've been watching them because I'm like, I want to see how. Why they keep on winning, how they. How they number one in the East. So I just say, you know what? I know we're not gonna talk about it, but I'm gonna talk. I will watch it. I got Done Cade. I said, man, he the real deal now. I saw him. Oh, I don't know if you remember. You remember him and Austin Reeves went head to head. I don't know if y' all remember this game, but he and Austin Reeves

[Ocho]

went head to head.

[Joe]

He was at Oklahoma State and AR Was at Oklahoma.

[Ocho]

Oh, oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

They were going at it. Yeah, yeah, they were going at it.

[Ocho]

Yeah. He was special he was special when he was at Oklahoma State. Yeah. You could. You could see it. You could see it then. I mean, he playing the same. The same way he's playing now. That's how he played at Oklahoma State. Big guard playing the one, Scoring the ball, assisting the ball, doing a little bit of everything. Hey.

[Joe]

Because I remember coming out like, bro, Oklahoma State. People go to Oklahoma State to wrestle.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Play football. They don't go play no damn basketball.

[Ocho]

Well, hey, hey. Well, you know, you know, Nil won the big. It wasn't a thing back then, but it was a thing.

[Joe]

It was a thing. It wasn't. It wasn't a thing, but it was. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, y' all big country.

[Joe]

The only one I know the. With Oklahoma State.

[Ocho]

Right. Right.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, y', all, y'. All, Y' all hyping up them pisses, man. I mean, rightfully so. Obviously. Being down 3:1 coming back, being resilient. Cade Cunningham, phenomenal. Boys play some really good defense, Joe. But I really. I'm really hanging my hat on the experience. Donovan Mitchell not getting past the second round. This is your year. It got to be a year. James Harden won. His Achilles heel is not having much success in the playoffs. Not giving us a James Harden we're used to seeing in the playoffs.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

You know, so I'm. I'm just hoping those two can. Can, Can. Can muster it up and sums it up, you know, in this seven game series and prove to those that are hating or prove to those that. That say, you know, was always been the elephant in the room. When it comes to those two, man, I'm thinking they can get.

[Joe]

But the question is, oo is the elephant in the room.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, it's in there.

[Joe]

Okay. The saying is, because the elephant, like, damn, this big. Why the elephant in this room? So we. We got to talk about it. I get everything that you said, but are we gonna talk about this big ass elephant sitting on your couch? Yeah. Or we just gonna pretend like we don't see him.

[Ocho]

Right, right. I think. I think. Hey, look, when you look at Detroit, though. Oo.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You know, they. They was tried and tested in this first round.

[Joe Johnson]

They was.

[Ocho]

You know what I mean? And, and I know it's a lot they can learn from, you know, this first round because they prevail. You know, being down 31 obviously was A. Was a defeat to try and come back from, and they did that. I think understanding where they at and who they are as a team, meaning they're the number one seed in the Eastern Conference. They're the best team in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, they know that. They've proved that. They've shown that in this first round. So I think, I think that's why I give them a slight edge against Cleveland. Yes, Cleveland had the experience with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden, but man, it is going to be hell on those guys continuously throughout this postseason, bro.

[Joe]

Right.

[Ocho]

Those are two guys who you cannot let be comfortable and do whatever they want. And Detroit, arguably one of the best teams in the NBA. You know how they gonna play.

[Joe]

Yep. Players in NBA history with 225 points or more, 50 plus assists in a single playoff series. Cade Cunningham, Round 1, 2026. Giannis, Round 2, 2021. Luca, Round 1, 20, 21. LeBron, Round 1, 2018 and Conference Finals 2018. Jerry West, NBA Finals 1969. Oscar Robinson, Conference Finals 1960, 63.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's great company to be in there, fellas.

[Joe]

Oscar Robinson, hall of Fame. Jerry west, hall of fame. LeBron gonna be in the hall of Fame. Luca is gonna be in the hall of Fame. Giannis gonna be in the hall of Fame. Kate Cunningham was about to join K. Cunningham is in that group. That's how special he was in this series.

[Ocho]

He was. He was talking about. I'm talking about when they really needed it. Okay, Ocho, I mean, man, listen, I can't get game six out of my head, bro. With Orlando being up 24 points.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

And only scoring 19 points in the second half. The second half, Joe, that's unheard of, bro.

[Joe]

19 and 24 minutes of basketball. They held a team to 19 points. We've seen guys. Klay Thompson scored 37. And a quarter.

[Joe Johnson]

And a what?

[Joe]

37 and a quarter. Kevin Love scored 37 in the quarter. I think David Thompson, Iceman scored 33 in the quarter. We've seen guys score 30 points. 25, 28. 30 points in a quarter. They got held a 19 and a half.

[Joe Johnson]

I'm trying to. I'm trying to understand. We ain't talk about 2K. We ain't talking about NBA Lab.

[Joe]

No play.

[Joe Johnson]

Thompson scored 37 points in 1:12 minute quarter.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

When the. Excuse me, I'm almost cursed. When the hell was this?

[Joe]

About a decade ago. What's this, 26? Yeah, probably about. Probably about 2016. Because Kevin Love got close. Because Kevin Love had 34 in the first quarter.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Joe]

Huh? What the hell?

[Ocho]

Ocho on limited dribbles too. It wasn't like he was dribbling, he was catching shooting, letting that thing go.

[Joe Johnson]

That's it.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

2016. But I don't think I saw a

[Joe]

basketball game 2016, because I think. I think LeBron. I think K Loves on K Loves might have been like 2015, 2014. 2015.

[Ocho]

Yeah,

[Joe]

maybe 15, 16.

[Ocho]

Hey. Oh, oh, man. What you got to hear though, is Iceman, George Gervin talk about, you know, him and David Thompson fighting out for that, for the score scoring. Oh, because I think David Thompson played first. I did. I did like a. A podcast in Detroit with me and Iceman and they talked about that, bro. He's like, David Thompson went first. Like what he score? He scored something crazy.

[Joe]

He did. I think he got 60.

[Ocho]

Yeah, but I think Iceman needed like 70s or something like that to win 70. I think he went out there and scored like 71 or something like that.

[Joe]

Oo, yeah, he ended up beating. I think Ice has 60. He might have matched him, Joe. Cause Iceman went out because Skywalker, David Thompson went out there. That might have been the game. Skywalker went for 73 and then he needed to get like 60 something.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, but I remember him telling

[Joe]

I said, but it was, if I'm not mistaken, if it's the closest scoring race, only one I think that that came close comparable was David Robinson. David Thompson, when David Robinson got that 71 to beat Shaq. Yeah, yeah, but what, what David Thompson and David Thompson and George Gervin scoring rates.

[Ocho]

Oh, Joe, that had to be.

[Joe]

That had to be that. What Was that? Like 70? Had to be like 74, 75. What?

[Joe Johnson]

Man, the people in the chat talk about he only had 11 dribbles. So we scored 37.

[Joe]

No, no, no, that was a 60 point game. He had 11 dribbles. He had a 60 point game when he had 11 dribbles.

[Ocho]

11 dribbles and 60 point game.

[Joe]

Yeah, but that was a different game. That 37 point. That was not the same game. Yeah, that was a different game. Yeah, I think 74.75.

[Ocho]

What he had.

[Joe]

What. What do. What did David Thompson score on the final day?

[Joe Johnson]

That boy. That boy were hogging the ball, boy. Oh, man, if he. If he only drew 11 times, you got 60 points.

[Ocho]

That ain't called Hogan. That's called. That's called being shooter, partner. That man will kill.

[Joe]

He came back with 60. What?

[Ocho]

He wasn't missing O. Joe. Yeah.

[Joe]

Hey, hey. That was it, Joe. David Thompson scored 73 and then Ice came back and scored 63 to take it.

[Ocho]

Hey, boy, you got to be cooking with grease, homie.

[Joe Johnson]

They must not have been playing no defense back then, huh?

[Joe]

But There was scores. I mean, George Gerber. But see, that's the same. See, because people didn't see them. People don't realize, oh, this guy, that guy. People don't realize George Gervin. And hey, the finger. I see, I had up to the poster where he was sitting on the blocks of ice and he had the ball. Probably had the iceman.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

So George Gervin, it's been that guy.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

David Thompson. You hear Michael Jordan? Michael Jordan said I wanted to be David Thompson. A North Carolina kid, they called him the Skywalker because he was the first guy that had that they measured, had a plus 40 inch vertical. And he wasn't that big.

[Ocho]

Damn.

[Joe]

But back, hey, they. They used to, they battle it out. Hey, them guys to score back then because they were super athletic. They dropped 50 on your head like nothing.

[Ocho]

Like it was nothing.

[Joe]

But that was 78 when that happened, Joe.

[Ocho]

Damn. Hey, look, imagine. Imagine them dudes doing all that back then. They ain't had half the medicine and orthotics and. No, no, them boys out there and Chuck Taylor's and Converse and. You know what I'm saying? Think about that, bro.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey. Yes, they had them. They had them Chucks online.

[Joe]

Hey, they flying commercial. They get stuck, the plane get delayed. You get stuck. You getting in the wee hours of the morning. But they play at 82, man. They.

[Ocho]

They were, bro. They were. Hey, back in the day, boy, it was a little different.

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[Joe]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird.

[Ocho]

What is this, your first date?

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[Joe Johnson]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Ocho]

Liberty.

[Joe Johnson]

Liberty.

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