Nightcap Hour 1: Pistons BLOW Game 5 vs Cavs + Lakers Pull POWER MOVE on LeBron + Shannon FURIOUS Laker Fans Deny LeBron is BETTER Than Kobe

Summary

Nightcap Hour 1 Recap

Podcast: Nightcap
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe (Unc / Shay Shay Media), Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson, “ISO” Joe Johnson
Date: May 14, 2026
Episode Theme:
An unfiltered, late-night, real-time sports talk breakdown from NFL and NBA legends. This episode dives deep into the dramatic Pistons-Cavs playoff collapse, Lakers internal politics with LeBron, and the ever-divisive “LeBron vs. Kobe” GOAT debate, all delivered with the panel’s trademark candor and humor.

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Episode Overview

Nightcap delivers raw, immediate reactions to the most dramatic NBA and NFL action, focusing this hour on:

• Detroit Pistons’ Excruciating Game 5 Loss Against Cleveland Cavaliers
• The Los Angeles Lakers’ calculated moves with LeBron James’ future
• Fierce debate: Where does LeBron rank among Lakers legends, especially versus Kobe Bryant?
• Player development, dedication, and the process of greatness

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Pistons Collapse in Game 5 vs. Cavs

Timestamps: 07:23–18:43; 21:59–32:15

Breakdown of the Loss

• Detroit blew a 9-point lead with under 2 minutes left: “The Pistons blew a 9 point lead down the stretch, come back, and they beat 'em in overtime.” – Joe (07:23)
• Charles Barkley’s Brutal Pre-game Quote:
  “His whole game is offensive rebound, lob dunks from Cade. He should never have just two rebounds, ever. That’s two more than a dead person.”
  – Joe quoting Barkley on Jalen Duren (07:34)

Cade Cunningham's Burden and Turnovers

• Cade played all 48 minutes, but fatal turnovers in the 3rd quarter and OT stung bad:
  “He played 48 minutes. ... He’s all they got offensively ... But he can’t have no 6 turnovers.” – Ocho (10:16)
• On playmaking risks:
  “If you look at those three turnovers, what was he trying to do? Playmake for somebody else. He could have just went … but instead of going up, he’s trying to dump it off.” – Joe (10:57)

Detroit’s Reliance on Cade and Others Fading

• “If Cade don’t get no help from nobody else ... he carrying on his damn back.” – Ocho (09:49)
• Tobias Harris’ struggles and Duren’s inconsistency spotlighted.
• On Thompson: “As great as he is defensively … you don’t want to be one dimensional. You can’t be one dimensional at the next level.” – Unc (12:13)

Cavs’ Keys to the Comeback

• “James Harden needed this game.” – Joe (13:14)
• Max Strus “was the difference maker … 6 for 8 from three.” – Ocho (13:36)
• On the Cavs bigs: “Allen and Mobley gave them great contribution ... 35 and 18, Joe.” – Ocho (17:47)
• Coaching and strategy points: frustration about late-game fouling and missed opportunities are voiced.
• “You can’t turn the ball over like that.” – Ocho (15:13)

Coaching and Offseason Development

• Repeated callouts for Detroit’s young core to evolve their offensive skills.
• “If there’s a flaw in my game and I know it’s being exposed … I wait till the offseason and add whatever that weakness is.” – Unc (35:16)

Notable Quote

• “Greatness is boring because it’s doing the same thing over and over, hoping for the same result. See, insanity is doing something over and over hoping for a different result. Greatness is doing the same thing over and over hoping for the same result.”
  – Joe (40:08)

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2. Cavs’ Resilience and Stars Stepping Up

Timestamps: 13:12–18:13

• Harden and Donovan Mitchell “are smart and they know how … to use your aggressiveness against you.” – Joe (27:30)
• Detroit’s late-game mistakes equally matched by Cavs’ execution on big plays and free throws.
• Discussion about “the others” – role players who become difference makers in key games.

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3. Player Development, Offseason Work, and the Realities of Greatness

Timestamps: 35:16–44:07

• Long digression about the importance of offseason skill-building and sticking to routine:
  “The foundation of craftsmanship … is built in the offseason.” – Unc (37:07)
• “Everybody does not want to be great.” – Joe (41:18)
• On specialist trainers: Phil Handy, Chris Johnson, Rico Hines, and especially Hakeem Olajuwon for big men.
• “If I was a basketball player, I’m watching and I’m seeing where I’m deficient at.” – Joe (45:42)

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4. Lakers Power Play: LeBron and JJ Redick

Timestamps: 49:53–61:40

• Lakers give JJ Redick the game ball after a historic night for LeBron. LeBron perceives this as Pelinka undervaluing him:
  “LeBron felt Pelinka’s priority was yet another example of the Lakers taking him for granted.” – Joe (49:53)
• LeBron’s transformative effect on every franchise by win percentage and Finals trips meticulously outlined.

Statistical Comparison

• Side-by-side look at LeBron’s and Kobe’s franchise impacts, win percentages, and Finals appearances.

• “So basically, that’s a 22% increase (in win rate with LeBron).” – Joe (51:49)

• “If I don’t like you, you can’t do enough good to make me like you. If I do, you can’t do enough wrong to make me dislike you.”
  – Joe (52:32)

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5. GOAT Debate: LeBron vs. Kobe as Lakers

Timestamps: 53:13–71:19

Deep Lakers Context

• Detailed breakdowns of Lakers’ dreadful records pre-LeBron and the high draft picks they earned as a result.
• “Something in the milk ain’t clean … How you get Lonzo Ball if you in the playoffs?” – Joe (54:15)

Comparing LeBron’s and Kobe’s Lakers Careers

• Minute dissection of statistical production, efficiency, and aging from both superstars:
  • “What he shot this year? 51, I think 51.5, bro. That’s … I guarantee you nobody’s ever done that.” – Ocho (61:13)
• Even with superior numbers, “those that are Kobe fans ... nothing will unseat how they feel about that man.” – Unc (62:13)
• Acknowledges how fan loyalty and nostalgia outweigh even facts and data.

Iconic Nightcap Phrases

• “It’s okay to say, man, Kobe is great, but LeBron is a bad … It’s almost like if I say LeBron is bad, I’m saying Kobe ain’t no good.” – Joe (64:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cade’s Mistakes:
  “He played too well tonight to have that, to let that be what we kind of remember this for. … You can’t have this, K.” – Joe (07:57)
• Barkley’s jab at Duren:
  “That’s two more than a dead person.” – Charles Barkley via Joe (07:34)
• Greatness is Boring:
  “Greatness is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for the same result.” – Joe (40:08)
• On the Kobe-LeBron Divide:
  “You can’t do enough good to make me like you. … If I do (like you), you can’t do enough wrong to make me dislike you.” – Joe (52:32)
• Laker Loyalty:
  “Those that are Kobe fans … nothing will unseat how they feel about that man. … Nobody tried to. I understand.” – Unc (62:13)
• On Changing Minds:
  “People make it seem like ... once you say something ... you can’t change your mind.” – Joe (55:03)

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Key Timestamps

• 07:23 – Breakdown of Pistons' Game 5 collapse
• 10:16 – Cade’s workload and limitations
• 13:12 – Cavs role players and clutch performances
• 17:47 – Cleveland’s big men dominate
• 21:59 – Refs, fouls, and the endgame sequence
• 35:16 – Development and offseason improvement wisdom
• 40:08 – “Greatness is boring” speech
• 49:53 – Lakers give JJ Redick the game ball, LeBron slighted
• 53:13 – Dissecting the Lakers' rebuild and draft history pre-LeBron
• 55:03 – On changing your mind in the GOAT debate
• 61:13 – LeBron’s age-defying efficiency, Kobe’s aging stats
• 62:13 – Kobe fans’ devotion regardless of numbers

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Takeaways for New Listeners

This Nightcap episode is a must-listen for high-level, no-BS sports discourse. The hosts combine hard stats, real experience, cultural context, and familiar banter to provide perspective beyond headlines. Whether you're obsessed with Xs and Os, love salty postgame rants, or crave the never-ending LeBron/Kobe/Lakers debate, this episode delivers sharp analysis with personality.

Summary:

• Brutal breakdowns of player performances and playoff strategy.
• Honest talk about what it takes to be great and how pros actually develop.
• Lakers politics and player loyalty through a generational rivalry lens.
• No apologies—just facts, fire, and a touch of nostalgia.

Perfect for:
Fans who want both the "what" and the "why" in sports, delivered with the unapologetic energy only Shannon, Ocho, and Joe can bring.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Joe]

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[Podcast Host Ocho]

Welcome to another episode of Nightcap. I'm your host and this the ISO takeover. The one and only.

[Podcast Host Joe]

If you meet another.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

He's a phony, huh? AKA Joe Shiesty and still king ISO Joe and my co host, Bengals Ring of fame Monterey. A six time Pro Bowler, a three time all Pro. He said they paid him for his feet not his hands.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Huh?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Liberty City's very own AKA twin. Now my player partner Chad Ocho. Cico Johnson. Hey. And my other co host, he's an eight time Pro Bowler, a five time all Pro, a three time super bowl champ, a Hall of Famer and arguably the greatest tight end ever to play the game. He say he was hell when he was. Well now watch out your favorite unc AKA Big Play Shay Shay. That said it sharp. Hey hey. Please hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. Go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. We would like to thank each and every one of you for your eyes, ears and your word of mouth. Thanks to y'.

[Podcast Host Unc]

All.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Look your boy ISO on here. Yeah, I mean doing my one two. Hey check this out. Those looking to purchase a bottle shaped by Laportier head over to laportiercognac.com it if it's currently unavailable in a city or State near you. What? Hey, hey, look. Check this out. Real talk. It's a premium VSOP cognac. The smoothest, best tasting VSOP cognac on the market. Huh? It drinks like an xo, but it's smooth. And compared to other cognacs, you'll see, it's the best tasting cognac on the market, baby. Hey, hey, hey, check this out. One more thing paired up with a nice cigar or even some Zar. Choice is yours. Hello.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Hey, what's up? That was unbelievable, man. Y' all see it? That's who it is. That's ISO. Joe Johnson with the intro. He did an unbelievable job tonight, guys. Y' all can't deny it. We cannot deny it. That was smooth. You had Ocho.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

He been practicing.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Ocho, you gotta get. You gotta stay.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. What I told you yesterday? I told you he was gonna be in the mirror all goddamn day today.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, hey.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Be in the mirror all day practicing.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey. Oo. I'm that damn backup. You don't want to get no damn rip. I know that. Huh?

[Podcast Host Joe]

See? We in good hands now. I feel. I feel very, very comfortable Oo. Taking me two, three weeks off. Let Joe handle that thing.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Let him get that thing, man.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Joe, when we on. When you. When we on vacation now, you know, I pop in every blue moon and Give you five minutes, man.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I got.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, hey. I got some special guests who will be on here with me, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm wrapping some things up. I'm had. Y' all right, baby?

[Podcast Host Joe]

We gonna be good. We've been nominated for the Hashtag sports award of 2026. The short list. We are in four categories. Best brand partnership for Nightcap outside RO. Best podcast. Best Athlete Podcast. Best use of Live video. Please go vote for us. The link is pinned in the chat.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Guys.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Thank you guys so much for this, for your support. None of this is possible. Like I say, we say this all the time. None of these awards are possible without your ears and your word of mouth. We can become entertaining. We can be as funny, we can be as informative, as educational as we want to be. But if you do not like the content, if you do not watch us or you do not tell other people to watch us, if you do not share our content, it does not matter. The one thing that we know is that eyes matter. And when brands and sponsors come in, it's like, okay, what can you do for us? And we show them the numbers and we show the demographics and the age groups. It's like, okay, we want to be a part of that. So again, thank you for your support and your continued support. So thank you. Also hashtag awards for the nominees for the nominations. Best Brand partnership for Nightcap Outside. Enroll. Best Podcast. Best Athletes Podcast. Best Best use of Live video. Ocho Joe. I cannot believe it. The Pistons blew a 90 lead down the stretch, come back and they beat him in overtime. They led by nine with under two minutes. What about two minutes to go in the ball game? And this is what. This is what Charles Barkley said about Jalen Duran pregame. His whole game is offensive rebound lob dunks from Cade. He should never have just two rebounds, ever. That's two more than a dead person. Well, tonight he finished with five rebounds. Only had nine points with a plus minus of 16. Minus 16. Yeah, plus minus. A minus. Minus 16. He was on the minus side. He nothing plus. I only know why I mentioned plus. Yeah, it was all subtraction. I guess I do know a little something because I've been saying this all along, but he's going to want 200 plus million dollars. And the man has been gave you a game where he had 102 rebounds. Gave you another game where he had five. Joe, I'm gonna let you have it. But Cade gotta stop turning the ball over. He turned. He turned it over three big times in the third quarter. And that last one where screws picked his pockets, you can't have that. He's too good of a player. He played too well tonight to have that, to let that be. What we kind of remember this for. It's kind of like the Isaiah Thomas. You remember Isaiah Thomas when he threw the ball, tried to sneak the ball inbounds and Henderson ended up stealing the ball and laying it up. You can't have this, K. Joe, how was Cleveland able to be so resilient down the stretch and win this ball game in overtime, Man.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, it's the same thing that we've talked about with Detroit, man. You look at it, if K don't get no help from nobody else. Yep, Jenkins gave him a solid, you know, 19. Tobias. Tobias. Just probably his worst game of the series. You know what I mean? It's like Ocho, he got so much. He carrying on his damn back. Yeah, he gonna. Now he can't have no six turnovers. I'm with you, but some of them mistakes he gonna make, bro, just by fatigue, I mean his usage.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He played 48 minutes.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I know they went into overtime, but, bro, he's all they got offensively. I mean, Paul. I thought Paul Reed came in and gave him a lift. Hell, he made it to where it was hard for you for him to put Durant back in the game. Yeah. So. But when you look at Thompson, Akay Ocho, as great as he is defensively and 3 blocks, 4 steals, 5 assists, 7 rebounds, he has so many opportunities where he can still put some points on the board, meaning, like, he gets offensive rebounds, he looking to kick out. Like he ain't even looking at the goal just to even be aggressive sometimes. You know what I mean? You right there in the paint. I just feel like they rely on Cade so much, and if he's not heroic, hell, it's hard for him to win.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Joe, you said something very interesting is that if you look at those three turnovers, what was he trying to do playmake for somebody else? He could have just went. Yeah, he could have easily just gone to the basket, but instead of going up, he's trying to dump it off, and the guy moves the ball, goes out of bounds, or somebody ends up having the basketball. Yeah. Four. Four turnover. I think he had four of his six turnovers after the half. That one in overtime was a killer.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, because he got.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He got picked clean. Yeah, he got picked at least. If you turn the ball over, Joe, if you turn the ball over and you give me an opportunity to set my defense, yeah, I'm disappointed because we didn't even get a shot up at the rim. But if you turn the ball over, if we don't even get a chance to set our defense, we're cooked.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, we cooked. Nothing we can do.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Go ahead, Ocho.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You. I'd say you also have to think about it, too. Like Joe said, I think, for one, you need Tobias Harris to play. He played great all series, Joe. Hell, he's been playing great all. All in the entirety of the playoffs. But I think tonight is a night where Tobias Harris need to show up and take some of that pressure off of Cade. Now, I know he played a lot of minutes, but he need to be one of those that can. When they needed a bucket, he need to come. He need to step up to the party. I'm not sure what. What's wrong with brother Thompson. As great as he is defensively, I. I see he shoot.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He's offensively challenged. That's what's wrong with him.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, we. We can't use that excuse, especially once you get that next.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That next level Fact, it's not an excuse.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You don't want to be. You don't want to be one dimensional. You can't be one dimensional.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Well, he can't change that, right? He can't change that in the series. He's got to work.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, I understand. I'm not sure what was wrong, brother. Jalen Duran either, Joe, you know, for somebody, what's wrong with him at some time to give you 20, sometimes to get 20, sometimes to give you nothing.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Not in the playoffs.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I don't. I don't understand. I don't. I don't understand what's wrong.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I think his best game in this postseason is 15. 15, bro.

[Podcast Host Unc]

But this,

[Podcast Host Ocho]

that's the biggest difference. I mean, hell, he ain't no guy who you gonna just come down and throw the ball to. His.

[Podcast Host Joe]

His.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

A lot of his points came from pick and roll with K or energy and effort buckets, but he ain't getting none of them. Hell, you can't only with five rebounds or two rebounds in the game, bro. Like, I don't really know, man. I think Detroit got some soul social to do, but we still gotta give Cleveland credit, okay?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, for sure.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

James Harden. Give James Harden.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He needed this. James Harden needed this game.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, he did.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

He did. He did give Struce credit. Coming off the beach. He was huge. Yeah, he was huge difference maker. He was the difference.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He absolutely was.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Struss, is it Struce or Strauss? A young bull was efficient tonight, Joe. You know, man, Efficient as hell.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, hey, he's one of those others who we talk about, bro. You can't let. You gotta. You gotta alleviate the others and make the stars be stars. You know what I mean? But if you let a guy like Struse get on you, Ocho, hell, that's a game he potentially won for him tonight just by his efficiency alone. Hell, he only took eight shots. All of them were threes. He was six for eight from three. I mean, what, what, what better. What better complimentary piece you want next to, you know, Mitchell and Harden in those situations where a guy's making shots, bro. I mean, he did his job tonight. He did his job. Cause I don't know why d Wade be out there. He'd just be running sprints, getting great cardio.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, wait, is your weight. Is your five right?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Either.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Either four. Small. Four. No, wait, he want be Allen and

[Podcast Host Joe]

Mobley is the four and five.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, listen, he be guarding three with no points. Yeah, yeah, man. Hey, he be guarding Cade. I'm like, why the hell they got him guarding Cade.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Cause they don't really have anybody else they don't have. I mean, if you think about it. And so when he came, when he comes out, that means Strus comes in. And you see Stru basically guarded Cade because you can't put Allen on him, you can't put Mobley on him, and Donovan Mitchell and James Harden can't guard him. So he's your next option. He's the only. He's truth and what you call him. Maybe you might be able to think about throwing Merrill on him or maybe Tyson, but, But you feel more comfortable with Wade and Strus doing it. And I thought Stru's challenged as much as he could. Cade had it going tonight. He played well enough to win. But you can't turn the ball over like that.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You can't, you can't turn the ball. You can't turn the ball over. Okay, Ojo, but I'm gonna keep it real, man. Cleveland ain't got not one person who can stick.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He get whatever he want, Joe.

[Podcast Host Unc]

He get.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I'm talking about every time, too. Every time I. Hey, look, he may even need to be a little bit more selfish if you ask me, you know? I mean. Cause I know he tried to get shots for these other guys and get them involved, but it's like, damn, some of the passes he making, they don't

[Podcast Host Joe]

do nothing with it.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

It's like some of the passes he making, he giving you great opportunity, but it'd be a mislay up or missed. I'm like, hold on, bro, I'd rather you shoot that one.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I, I, I, I totally agree. I, I just think the thing is, we can say two things can be true. Detroit actually gagged, but we've seen it before. Ocho team where the opportunity was there, they just didn't take advantage of it. Give Cleveland credit, because in the process of gagging, somebody had to put you under duress, right? And then somebody had to follow through. And you see Cleveland, they made every big shot, and I was just getting ready to tweet, and I got distracted. I said, james Harden is going to miss one of these free throws. I think he gonna miss one of these free throws. And I be damn if he ain't miss one and they don't get the rebound. You see, you realize the ball's not yours until, until it's in your hands. He missed the free throw, and you don't get it. What have you done? It's kind of like a shot. Oh, you played great. Okay. But the ball goes up and you don't get the rebound, you ain't done nothing.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, right.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Oh, Jordan Sport, you get to get them the third down and then you can't get off the field. What good is getting them to third down if you can't get off the field? Hey, oh, we shut them down on first or second. They ain't got nothing but they come on the field. First down, first down, first. Eventually that's going to catch up with you. Eventually they going to put on your ass.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host Joe]

What happened? And then I don't know what took him so long to file. I mean, hey, how many decade have five files? No, he had. Yeah, you got to take that file sooner. You let five seconds run off the clock for no reason. But I think Cleveland, I think Cleveland bright. Cleveland Cavaliers played unbelievable. Under, under the rest like they cut. We talked about this. This series might have been. It should have been over. If shooter doesn't turn that ball over. This over. Nacho. It's four. It's. It might be four one.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You're right. You're right. And. And when you got. You know, I think Allen and Mobley gave them great contribution tonight. Meaning? Meaning they were super solid.

[Podcast Host Joe]

35 and 18, Joe.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, I mean, you know, you just don't. You can't have one with 18 and then another one with four. Right. You know what I mean? So this is a great balance for them. I thought they big guns played well and then like you need the other. You need somebody to come along, somebody who can help win a game. And that was truce, bro. Hey, look, they've done what they needed to do. Now. I. I guess, you know, if you. Cleveland, obviously you want to close them out in six, this would be six, right? Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, they got to hold on. It depends what the game, what the next game at, huh?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Cleveland believe it.

[Podcast Host Unc]

They got to close it out. They got to close it out. I feel good. I would love for this game to be one of James Harden games where he has an out of body experience similar to that when he played with the goddamn Rockets. He's been to up and down. Gotta protect the ball. Donovan Mitchell gonna be Donovan Mitchell. I was, I was hoping he'd get that shut off before regulation ended, you know, but they, they trapped him and got that ball out of his hands.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That was a foul. Huh? They should have called a foul on Jared Allen.

[Podcast Host Unc]

No, no, no, no, no. That was clean. Thompson got that out clean.

[Podcast Host Joe]

No, I'm saying Allen tripped him. Thompson was going to get the ball and Allen tripped him.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hold on Unc.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Do you really want to call a foul in that moment?

[Podcast Host Joe]

And now superhuman Shaq I keep telling

[Shaquille O'Neal]

them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it could sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

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[Podcast Host Joe]

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[Commercial Narrator]

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[Podcast Host Joe]

It's a foul. Nah. Yes.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You got.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You got.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You got to be cautious. You don't. You don't want to end the game. And no, not. Not out. That.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That. That's about him. He's going, he's going. He. But here's the problem. Tony Brothers wasn't even looking at him go. Look what Tony is standing right there. He's looking this way. Allen and Thompson right here.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, yeah. I think it was a foul.

[Podcast Host Unc]

And then to buy it with that foul and send him to the free throw line.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yes. With 1.4 seconds on the clock, I would.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I wouldn't want to end the game like that. I wouldn't want to end the game. I'd rather go to overtime.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So if that's the case, guess what I should do? I'm gonna file somebody. Because you don't want the game to end in the file. So I' just going to foul hell out of me and say, okay, let's just go to overtime.

[Podcast Host Unc]

But listen, if you think about it too, if you think about it, right. If you, if you think about football, right, every single down, Joe, no matter what, especially in the inter. In the interior, you can call a foul every single time if you want to, because every single time there's something going on, it has to be egregious. And you can see that trip was pro. It was more of a mistake as. As it being done purposely so I wouldn't want the game to end.

[Podcast Host Joe]

But they always called tripping. That's. They always call that. Yeah, they call. They call tripping about five times the other night. I gave you a prime example. So you did. Would you have wanted the Philly game with Bradford the fourth. Hell, Juju. You owned that call and just let him play.

[Podcast Host Unc]

That was egregious song

[Podcast Host Joe]

to get like that. Ocho.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, I understand what you mean. I just Don't I love that the ref, he held his whistle in that moment. Allow them boys to go to overtime and allow the game to be decided by open play. Not a goddamn foul.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Well, he, guess what? He allowed it to be side to over play. Allen tripped him. He didn't call the bow. He allowed it. But no, I think, I think the Cavaliers being down and being able to be resilient and to continue to play. But you know what? In order you can continue to play Detroit got to be. Got to do some dumb ball headed things and they did. They did. You can't, Joe. Katie's your K. Come on, Cade, you better than this. And, and you know what? I wouldn't even been mad if he took every shot. If he look at, if he look at JB and say, bro, I ain't passing this ball. I don't give a damn unless they trap, unless they triple team me. I ain't giving this ball up. I'll let the 24 second clock run out.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Cause guess what? You let four of them go out. If they don't, if they don't. If they just don't score on one possession. I let 24 seconds run out, Joe. I guess what, I would win the game.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah. Hey look, hey, look.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Hey.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I still don't put it past Detroit to come back and win this series.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You think they're gonna get two games in a row, Joe?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I think they can. I don't know if, I don't know if they will, but I think they built to where they can go in Cleveland and get and win games built like that, Joe.

[Podcast Host Unc]

And Tobias is struggling, trying to carry the whole team on his goddamn back with no goddamn help.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

They went, they went through this last series.

[Podcast Host Joe]

No, you know, but this is the first game. This is really the first game. And what this game. Six and, and, and 13 games that Tobias did not play well. He did not play well.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Now he played well in the first half. You look at. He made, he was making plays in the first half. Yeah. I don't know what happened in the second half, but he was playing well. I just think the turnovers just caught up to him. You can't turn the ball over like.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, they had. They.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I mean there was some costly turnovers and Thompson, bro, you got to stop filing you, Joe. What he's doing is putting them in the penalty so early. They shot 38 free throws. They shot 38. They're plus 13 from the free throw line.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, Jo, got a question.

[Podcast Host Joe]

And James Harden is just going Bloom, Bloom, Bloom. Now he, you know, hey, you know, he's like, woo. Yeah, yeah, you, you probably. Yeah, you, you, you. You messed those up a couple times. You'd have been. Oh, he felt some type of way with that missed free throw. They come back and had won this ball game. And Donovan Mitchell, 6 and 6. You can't. He's putting them in the. He's putting them in the penalty. They. In six minutes, they shooting free throws. And you know how aggressive Donovan and Harden are. If they don't settle, they're going to put pressure on you. And when they put pressure and they eat. Look, he's a hell of a defender, but bro, don't work work on any slide drills. You got to work on shooting drills. You're killing your team.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, if Thompson's strength is defense right now and he's not really that good on offense, does that mean his twin is probably the opposite?

[Podcast Host Joe]

No, his twin is exactly the same. His twin is a little better offensively.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

A little better, right?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, a little better.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

But I agree, man, this is an offensive game nowadays. Now if you great defensive like he is, man, listen, he could be a hell of a player in his league, bro.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

It's so. It's just too many times. He don't even look at the damn basket when he got the ball. For me.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You know what I mean?

[Podcast Host Joe]

I agree.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

And it's like, you know, it's just so much a. And then when you think about Harden and Mitchell, see they. These are two. Two prolific scores in this league who really know how to use their body and use your aggressiveness against you. Yep. Yeah. So we know you gonna be trying to deny this. That. And it's just a little slight change of pace, bro. To where I speed up, slow down. Now you run into me now. But now you know what I mean. Now you done picked up y' all in the penalty. I. I agree with you. This is a learning experience for Thompson, bro. Guard needs two experienced guards who are drawing a lot of fouls on.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I thought he learned last year you gotta be better. You know who he had to guard last year? Brunson. And what Brunson do Stop. Let him run into it. And guess what? I thought James Harden and Donovan Mitchell are the exact type of that. They're different type players, but they are. They're smart and they know how like you said, Joe, use your aggressive against you, all they're going to do is get you on their back. Get. Hey, keep you back there, dribble the basketball. And guess What? Yep, you're gonna try to block it and guess what? They're gonna jump back into you and they go into the free throw line. It's either and one of the shooting two.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, you went through.

[Podcast Host Joe]

But I didn't with Jalen Bronson. Jalen Brunson is the master of that.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

He is, bro.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Where you think he learned it from? James Harden started this as Houston. Would that dribble, keep that dribble alive. He got you on his back and now superhuman Shaq I keep telling them

[Shaquille O'Neal]

not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

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[Podcast Host Joe]

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[Podcast Host Joe]

Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to

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[Podcast Host Joe]

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[Advertisement Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures when people turn to telehealth for weight loss, they're looking for real support. That's why more people are choosing orderlymeds.com Orderly Meds connects you with real doctors and access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and terzeptotide. No guessing, just a more supportive experience and all shipped directly to your door in discreet packaging. Do your research, ask questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. That's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice eligibility required. C site for details.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You got hey, you got to be super disciplined when you're playing against these guys. Oh, like super disciplined. I mean like knowing tendencies. You know when James drive through the lane, he gonna have that low scoop to where he wants you to reach in. And he and you know, you smack his arms like he he foul baiting you, bro. And you gotta know that that's why you have certain teams when they played against James Harden in the playoffs, it's keep your hands back, don't even stick your hands in there. You know what I mean? They just too good in that aspect of creating files. And they using it against Detroit. But man, Detroit, they're gonna be.

[Podcast Host Joe]

They kick. They let this one get away. This one get away.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, no.

[Podcast Host Joe]

People say, but you won't. You want Detroit to win. I don't care. I want a game. To be honest. I want game seven. We get something to talk about.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Listen, hey, I tell you ahead of time, I don't see the Cavs and Donovan Mitchell and James Harden let this game get to seven. I I just don't. I'm just telling you now, especially playing at home, you want to close. You want to close it out, you know, to get you get you a little bit of rest before you have to deal with them goddamn Nicks.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Damn. I don't know. Well, that's the mindset you hope they do.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Got it, Joe. And Joe, listen, you've been wrong all goddamn playoff series long.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Joe

[Podcast Host Unc]

hey, as great as the knowledge as the game of basketball is that you do have. I have been right. So I think it's your best bet is to probably go along with what I'm saying.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Listen, listen, hold on. I'm not counting Detroit out. I know you. I know you. I understand what Cleveland should be thinking and what they probably are thinking, but I'm think I know what Detroit thinking, too. Like, one game at a time. We got to go down here.

[Podcast Host Joe]

We got to the game and bring it back.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

We got to have a game seven period. We got to win game six. So we going to throw the whole sink at y'.

[Podcast Host Joe]

All. Hold on.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Who is the whole sink? Tobias and. Tobias and Cunningham. That's the whole sink.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Now, I see they switched up.

[Podcast Host Joe]

What happened? Duncan Robinson without his back, sore back

[Podcast Host Ocho]

way. I mean, Jenkins gave. Gave him great contribution. I mean, hell, he started off the game, he scored by the first seven points.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, but the thing is, Joe, they need Duncan spacing. They need his spacing because you got to guard him because he's gonna look. He's looking to get that three.

[Podcast Host Unc]

To get that three off. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So I. I just think the thing is, look, and I. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I thought.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I thought Jenkins played well. He had eight or 17, two or eight from the three, one on one from the free throw line. But Tobias. Tobias was one of seven from the three. He didn't shoot a free throw, which lets me know he was settling.

[Podcast Host Unc]

And he wasn't aggressive.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, he was. He was settling. James Harden, 11 to 14. What you call him? Six or six. Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, five or six. Jared Allen, four or five. Schroeder, three or five. Strews, two or two. I mean, look at. Look at everybody except Dean Wade way, we just get the cardio in. But for the most part, all those guys. Look at this. And then. Oh, man. During.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, how tall? How tall? You said during his.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Huh? Like themselves,

[Podcast Host Unc]

seven foot.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He just. Right. Right now, he'll notch above Ayton.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Notch.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That's it.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Because you know what?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Watching him play these players.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, I've been watching the entire time. I ain't got no choice.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, listen, listen. But what I've noticed is he trying to get the ball now. And you saw that.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Oh, Joe, you saw that, too.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Her right to a damn turnover.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You gotta add, he got. Listen, I. I hate when y' all talk about players, right? Obviously, I'm not sure how basketball works, but if there's a flaw in my game and something I don't Have. And I know it's being exposed in times that are important. Like right now, I wait till the off season come and add whatever that weakness is and add it to my game.

[Podcast Host Joe]

He tried to do this in the game. I'm like, Patrick Ewing. Y' all remember when Patrick Ewing, he started doing the big. It's a. Hey, so when you practice that. Have you ever worked on that play before? Have you ever worked on that shot before? But so now you get in the game and you want to try that? Yeah, yeah, I saw you do that.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I said, listen, I seen the man dribble between his legs. I said, hold on. All right. Damn. Hey, hey, hey. Like Peter Paul. Peter Paul say, try it out. Damn.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Damn.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Like during. Like, hey, I can't get nothing going. I'm gonna hoist up something. He said, I can turn right to it. Turn over. I'm like.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I was like, gee. Oh. You know, it's hard to really work on your game during.

[Podcast Host Unc]

During the season.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You can't because you got meetings, you got practice, you got games. You don't have that time to just devote two, three hours to just go over route running or. Or. Or move. Yeah, you work on little moves. You know, we got individual periods. Oh, yeah, you can work on stuff. Yeah, you can't work on it.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You base.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Not just a warm up. Yeah, that ain't nothing. Just some warm up. Yeah. Off season, when you work on your game. I'm working on stuff individually. Then if y' all get runs, Joe, you know you get your runs in. I try to put it to use. Hey, I'm working on stuff in the off season. Now when I get back to minicamps. Now this is my opportunity. Let me see. Let me see. Yeah, let me see how this is.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Right. Yeah, right.

[Podcast Host Unc]

And you know what? Hey, that. That foundation, that foundation of craftsmanship based on the position you play. Joe and Unc, it's building off season. It's building off season.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

It is.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Once you get into that structured environment, whether it's basketball, football, hockey, I don't care what it is you play. It's all X's and O's. You got to already be the finished product once you get there. All that trying to work on stuff and change the game in the middle of the season, trying to add stuff. Ain't no room for that.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Nope.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Because it ain't, bro.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Like. Like, Joe, you look, you can test to this, but Joe, you land in a city late at night, I mean, you might get in 1, 2 in the morning. Okay, you want to sleep in. So by the time you land, by the time to get your ass off the bus, I mean off the plane, get on the bus, get to the hotel, it might be 2:33. Well, you got shoot around.

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What?

[Podcast Host Joe]

You got shoot around 11, Joe.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

And well, on days like that, you, they may, yeah, you may have shoot around probably 11. Or if you got a game the next day, we'll probably just have a meeting at like noon or one o' clock in the hotel.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So you can't work on your game because it's. So what you gonna do? You can't get, okay, go to the gym, work on your game. Now you're going straight to the game and you still can't work on it.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So everything is just rolling so quick. That's why the off season is so important. That's where you build a foundation of what I'm going to do. Hopefully be able to carry over into the season. Yeah, that's why we always preach how important, you know. Look, I get it. Go ahead and get your little vacation out the way. Because when you come back and set that foundation on, Joe, the foundation is everything. Strong foundation. There can be no cracks.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh yeah, there can be.

[Podcast Host Joe]

No, I don't care. Because one pig built his house on a solid foundation, the other pigs built on some bull job.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

They badass had to run to the homeboy house or they're about to be bacon.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So get your foundation, your foundation is everything. And work on and work from there. But.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

And have a. Hey. And you got to have a mean routine. Yeah, bro, I'm talking about a routine that you stick to no matter what the hell going on.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You know what, Joe? That routine becomes boring too. Joe, it is talk about it all the time. About it all the time. That routine. Hey, fine. You find you one or two things. Every player. You have to have a niche. There has to be something that's special about you. Because everybody. It's a bunch of receivers, it's 32 teams. But you got to have one thing about you that is special, that separates you from everybody else. Everybody, fast, Joe. Everybody can't, Joe. But what is it about you that makes you different from the next person? Not only on your team, but on the other. On the other 31 teams, which creates that value. That's what creates the value in you, Joe. I can do this, but nobody else can. Even though they can run and catch. But this one special thing about me, this is my niche. And this is why I'm a value to Whatever team I play for.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

What we say all the time, greatness is boring because this maneuvering is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for the same result. See, insanity is doing something over and over and hoping for a different result. Greatness is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for the same result. You see people, man, I don't know how you eat the same thing over and over. I can see you don't eat the same thing and over. I can see how you look. I see big things in your future. And I ain't talking about the job promotion. But people get mad at me, Joe, when I. Man, how you. What, bro, it's really not that complicated.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

It's not.

[Podcast Host Joe]

It's really not. I say what you're doing is. You're mistaken. The habit for hard work. You think because you do something every day, you actually working hard.

[Podcast Host Unc]

No.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You're doing that out of habit. Man, I get up every day at 4 o'. Clock. What you do? Man, I be busy. Bees are busy, ants are busy. What are you doing? Yeah, to become great. I think we should also highlight this, guys. Everybody does not want to be great.

[Podcast Host Unc]

True.

[Podcast Host Joe]

We're specifically talking about people that want to be great have a burning and a desire to be great.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

It requires not only discipline, but it requires a commitment, not a promise. A promise is like pie crust is thin and easily broken. It requires a commitment. Everybody ain't committed to do this thing every day, all the time, dream about it, think about it, live it, boy. Man, all you do. All you do is work out, man. What. What else you got? Because that's all I want to do. I want to be great. Because I do realize this is as an end up as a professional athlete, there's a very short shelf life. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a doctor.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Small window.

[Podcast Host Joe]

30 years at this, I don't get 40 years at this, I get a finite period of time, I can walk away and say, hey, man, if I had just ate better, man, you know what? If I hadn't gone out, Joe, man, if I had just worked out a little harder, man, if I did, boy, if I could have studied, if I'd have known what I do then, what I know now.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Now. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hello. Hello.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Man, come on. During. You, you, you. I mean, ain't no way you should be eight, nine points.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, Joe. Hey. Who. Hey, who's the. Who's the. Who's the NBA guru when it comes to offense, where most of the players Go to. It got to be one person.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Damn. Meaning, like, training, like offseason training. Like, if you want to work the guy.

[Podcast Host Joe]

What's the guy with the beard? He created the Cavaliers. Who was?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Johnson. Chris Johnson out there in la.

[Podcast Host Joe]

What's the guy? He used to be coach. He was with Ty Lue. He with the Lakers last year. No, no, no, no, no. Phil Handy. A lot of guys go to field.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Kyrie worked with Phil. He worked with a lot of guys. Phil worked with a lot of guys. Phil is great at what he does.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah. That's what.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Him. Hey, him. Him and Chris Johnson. Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Well, Rico Hines does the UCLA runs.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know Rico. Rico, he's assistant coach for the Philadelphia 76ers.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Oh, is he?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, but he still had them runs out there in la. He still got all them young guys together in the summer, and, you know, they.

[Podcast Host Joe]

They do.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

They play pickup. He teach them how to play. Ocho, you know, he got a nice thing. I played out there back in my day, man, he been doing that for a minute.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I played at ucla. I did one time. I did the run one time with Westbrook.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Did you really?

[Podcast Host Unc]

I swear for God. And I'm not saying I was a baby. I was young, but I was still able to. Able to move where I wasn't a liability out there with them boys. And I tell you one thing, I got the ball. Ain't do nothing with it but pass. That had me looking silly.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. The boy Ocho. Since I came into the league, you know it. When I told you, when we had masterpiece on here and I told y', all, Master P got on our team, boy. Hey, it'd be some real Hoopers in there, bro. Hey, Ben Davis and Paul Pierce used to host them games in the summer to go down up there, you know,

[Podcast Host Unc]

who can hang with them boys. Even though he never played that level, but he's good enough. Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

But you know. But you know what, guys? I don't know. I don't know what it is. Because a part of me think that if I were to go somewhere and I get some assistance, he might take credit for my success. And I don't want nobody to take credit for my success.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

And I'm going to Elijah 1 if I'm a big man. Yeah. I want to work on my offensively. Who got feet? What big man had feet like Elijah 1. LeBron went to him. So many guys have gone to it, developed that the up and under, the fade Away Wimby. Think about it. Not just Rockets players, outside players. He said, hey, I ain't hoarding this knowledge. If you want it, I'm more than willing to share it with you. But you got to break. You gotta, like, I don't care. You don't know how good you can be. If you don't care who gets the credit. Man, I know, man. These dudes here. Oh, Joe, they got us. I know. If I was a basketball player, I know. I'm. Hey, where am I deficient at? I'm watching and I'm seeing where I'm deficient at. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Who can help me working on that?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to get right.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, I'm working on that.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Matter of fact, Joe, I might go see Phil Handy before I play.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You go ahead.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, I might do that and sharpen up my little foundation.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

You can go see whoever the hell you want to see. That ain't gonna help.

[Podcast Host Unc]

That's what I want you to think, playboy.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I tell you one thing. I tell you one thing. Back in. Back in high school, you know, do you know what they used to call me?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

What they call me?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, hey. That was my nickname.

[Podcast Host Joe]

There he go. Way to use that.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, I like that one. I use that one. Hey, I use that one today at the workshop.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Why are you using all the workshop?

[Podcast Host Unc]

I had to use that with a young boy. Man, that was a good one.

[Podcast Host Joe]

The next segment is brought to you by Tommy John, where comfort is the new power move. And the Lakers pulled a power move on LeBron on March 30th.

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[Podcast Host Joe]

for details first the Lakers defeated the Cavaliers to secure LeBron James, his record breaking 1200 and 29th win. It was the same night Luca passed 15,000 points, Rui passed 5,000 points. JJ Redick reached 100 wins according to Dave McMenamin Lakers GM Rob Pelinka gave the game ball to Reddick over anybody else. And LeBron felt Palinka's priority was yet another example of the Lakers taking him for granted. On other notes, he has had a great relationship with JJ Redick. One thing the Lakers got right, the Lakers approach and how they show interest in retaining him. And their plan for any discount will be a factor. LeBron James. Here's LeBron James before Cleveland. And with LeBron seven years before he got there, there was 219 and 22340 win rate. The seven years with him, they won 63% of their games. LeBron J. Miami, before he arrived, there was 149 and 179, a 45 win rate. His four years there, there was 224 in 88, a 72% win rate. Cleveland, before, when he returned, they were 97 and 215. They won 31 of their games. And his four years there, they went to four NBA Finals. They won one of those NBA Finals and they were 211 and 117, a 64% win rate. The eight years before LeBron got there, there was 269 and 371. They won 42% of their games. In the eight years with LeBron, there are 357 and 278. That's 56% win rate. So overall, before he arrived at your franchise, you winning about 40 of your game. Once he's there, you went about 62% of your games. So basically, that's a 22 increase. Now this, and people like, oh, LeBron ain't do nothing. Eight years in Milwaukee. How many championships does Giannis have, Joe?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

One.

[Podcast Host Joe]

How many NBA Finals have he gone to? One. Right. He's Finals MVP in eight years in Denver. How many championships have Jokic won, Joe?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

One.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Interesting. Now one guy. Now Giannis is deemed successful. Jokic is being successful. Only one Ocho with the same amount of championships.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

A Finals mvp, only one is deemed unsuccessful. You see how they did that?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You see, if I don't like you, you can't do enough good to make me like you. Yes, sir.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hello.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Hello.

[Podcast Host Joe]

But if I do, you can't do enough wrong to make me dislike you. We see that going around. We don't. We don't get political here, but we see what's going on. Yeah. You see what I do?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I'm with you when you're right.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey, hey. You watch a lot of Matlock coming up. Hey, that was my guy. Yeah, Ironside.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I don't know if y' all remember Raymond Burr. Ironside, he was in a wheelchair.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. Matlock. Heat of the night.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, would you. Hey, what you know about heat of the Night? What?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Come on.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Grandma used to watch heated the night. Why, man, come on.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Hey, Joe, let me give you. I want to give these Lakers fans and all these Lakers. Now this is what the Lakers record was in 2013-14. There was 2755. They didn't go to the playoffs the next year. There was 21 and 61. They didn't go to the playoffs the next year. They were 17 and 65. They didn't go to the playoffs the year before. And. And in 2016, when LeBron James had took off the NBA championship, there was 26 and 56. But boy, the Lakers were bad. Boy, people couldn't wait to see the Lakers

[Podcast Host Ocho]

in LA winning them amount of games.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You do realize in that time frame, they got Brandon Ingram, they got Alonzo Ball, they got Drew Randall. Now, how in the world would you be able to get the number two pick in the draft if you win, if, if you in the playoffs? How is that possible? How you get Lonzo Ball if you in the playoffs?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Right?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Something. My granny used to say it all the time, Ocho, something in the milk ain't clean, but I'll let y' all keep on talking. But I, I hold on. Ain't no way. Kobe, Kobe, go with that. Give me Kobe. Pull up Kobe's last eight years. I want to see how many NBA, how many times. Let's see what he did his last eight. That's all we want. Last eight. We just go. Could you look comparing and contrasting? Because I tweeted something in 2012 that I said, LeBron, that Kobe and Jordan were the greatest players I'd ever seen. And then somebody, somebody retweeted it. I said, but, you know, four NBA titles, four Finals mvp.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Seven. All NBA selection. And I say, my mind changed. I thought this was the girl for me, Joe. But after she left behind dry, I changed my mind.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

But people make it seem like you can't have it. You can't change your mind. So once you say something, I'm sure at some point in time, you probably might have thought this football player. I'm sure a lot of people say, well, Joe Montana was the greatest quarterback, or John Elway, or Dan Marino was the greatest quarterback, Peyton Manning. And then here come this kid that went in the sixth round from Michigan. I'm sure at some Point in time, somebody said this guy was the best defensive player, whether it was Merlin Olson, whether it was Deacon Jones, it was Bob Lilly, Randy White, Mean Joe. But then this kid out of North Carolina came along. They had 56 on his back. And I'm sure that the corners, they probably said with Dick. Night Train Lane. Nah, it was for Lester Hayes, Mel Blunt, Ken Riley.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Ken Riley. What you know about Ken Riley, huh?

[Podcast Host Joe]

So this, then, this little kid, skinny kid from fam. From Fort Miles.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Kim Riley. Fam. You rattler. You don't know about them rattlers.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Oh, man.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, you know Ken Riley? Hey, Joe. Ken Riley, the only banger in the hall of Fame with Anthony Munoz.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Oh, really?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, yeah. He don't. He don't get enough. He don't get enough credit, man. Enough credit. Boy, he was good boy.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I learned something new every day.

[Podcast Host Joe]

We're gonna start from his last year. His last year, Kobe retired at 37 years of age. He averaged 17 points. 3. We'll give him 4 rebounds, 3 assists. 2014, at 36, he was 22, 6 rebounds, 6 assists. In 2013-14, he was 35. He averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists at 2012. 13 at 34, he was 27. 6 and 6 at 2011-12, he was 33. He averaged 28. 5 and 5 at 2010, 2011, he was 25. 5 and 5. He shot 45 in 2010. He shot 43 in 2011. He shot 46 in 2012. He shot 42 in 2013. 37 in 2014, 36 in 2015. Rummy. Rummy Bronze Rummy Braun. Because we, like, do context, Joe. It wouldn't be fair. Oh, so we got to provide context.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Michael, listen, because you.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You can't argue points and facts without context. And most of the time today, especially for you hunk, you know, you want to be factual. You want to have. You want to have the facts in the stats to support whatever it is you're trying to get across.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Because, see, I think this ain't Michael Beasley told. He told us. He said, man, you judging by decisions, but you didn't know the choices that I had. I'm just gonna provide a little context for you, because I know y' all like context. I got to give you why I said something or why this. Because, you know, y'. All. Y'. All. Y' all told me Kobe was still that apex predator. That's what y' all told me. That's what Laker Nation told me. Yeah, that's what you told me.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Oh, we know, Braun.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Numbers don't surprise it. Don't surprise it. Don't spoil the surprise.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, I got a question before you read off bronze numbers during those times where Kobe's numbers were what they were. Was he injured during that time?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. All I'm saying. The man. 35, 36, 37. My guy, 40.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, so you go, you're gonna compare. You're gonna compare the numbers based on age at the same time.

[Podcast Host Joe]

LeBron, remember, LeBron didn't start the season. LeBron got hurt. Remember he missed the first 15 games?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Okay.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yes, sir.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

So this is what he did when he got to the Lakers. 27. Eight and a half. Eight. Do you realize there have only been four players to average that? The old counting up. I think it was. I think Oscar did it. I think Jordan did it, Russ did it, and Harden did it. But all of those guys did it before they turned 30. He did it at 32, 33. These guys were doing it at 25, 26. So what guys was doing at 25, 26. Go. James was doing it 32, 33. Then the second year, he was 25, 8 and 10. Championship. And then he went 25, 8 and 8. 38 and 6, 29, 8 and 7, 26, 7 and 8. Last year, moving to the second option with Luca there, he gave you a robust 24. What was it? 24, 8 and 7. And then this year, yeah, he gave. He ain't give you another little 20. Get a little 24 spot at the second option. DeLuca, he gave you 24, 8 and 8. And then this year, at the third option, 21, 6 and 7, shooting 55, 51, basically 52 from the floor. Has he ever shot less than 50 when he's with the Lakers. The year they won the championship, he shot 40.49.3. Okay. The year they won the championship. So his second year there, when he averaged 25, 8 and 10, he shot 49.3%. Other than that, Joe, he's never shot less than 50% from the Lakers.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, I. I don't think people understand how tough that is to do. Like to. To be that efficient, especially as you get up in age. Bro, the man, 41 years old, what he shot this year, 51, I think 51.5, bro. That's. That's. I. I guarantee is nobody's ever done that.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Even. No, he can't do enough good if he walk on water. People say the only reason he walking. Cause he can't swim. If he could swim, he would swim in the water. He wouldn't walk. Curious. Cancer, they say. What about diabetes? Ocho.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah, right. Hey, you know, the funny thing is about. About this conversation.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Unc]

And. And you think about what. What Kobe means to la.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You think about what Kobe means for the Lakers, what he's done for that franchise, you know, from the time he got there, you know.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Unc]

To the time. To his untimely demise.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Despite what he looked like towards the end of his career, I don't think there's anybody that can come to the Lakers and unsee what Kobe did. Just no matter what, even what you're reading off the stats, even if you read. Even what you reading off the facts and how great LeBron has been for them, those that are Kobe fans or those that appreciate what Kobe has done for them, nothing, Nothing will unseat how they feel about that, man. So when the conversation comes, nobody tried to. I. I understand.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That'll be the equivalent of all of a sudden, Chase. Chase gonna have better numbers than you. But that don't take away from what you did. Nor is Chase trying to erase what you did. See what people see. Here's the problem that you're running into. Ocho and Joe, correct me if I'm wrong, you step in at any point. All right. Because. Because it was Kobe and LeBron for the longest period of time.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I can't get past that. You trying to come make us forget about Kobe. You trying to erase Kobe's legacy? All those Kobe legacy is. Is. Is enriched in Mount Rush. Rushmore cemented. Yeah. But people can't see. I can't. I can't. Kobe is Kobe. Hey, no matter how you slice it, Kobe is a top three Laker all time. No matter how you slice it. Some people say Kobe, some people say Magic, some people might slot Kareem, but however you slice it, he ain't getting out of the top three.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Right?

[Podcast Host Joe]

Right. There have been some other greats. You got Elgin Baylor, you got Wilt Chamberlain, you got Jerry west, you got James Worthy, you got mikan, you got LeBron. Kobe ain't getting out of the top three. And that's okay. It's okay to say, man, Kobe is great, but LeBron is a bad. It's almost like if I say LeBron is bad, I'm saying Kobe ain't no good.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Right?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Right.

[Podcast Host Joe]

See, that's what the problem is. Ocho. It's like if I say. If I say man to was a bad boy, what about Ocho? Ocho was great, too. I'm talking about to.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Right?

[Podcast Host Joe]

If I say. If I say Jerry's good. Oh, you don't like Moss, man. Hey, man, you know what I love? You know what I love in the morning on my cereal show? Bananas. Why you don't put blueberries on them? Damn. I don't dislike blueberries. I'm saying. I'm highlighting. I like bananas. You can like what you want. Yeah, but to say I hate LeBron and he ain't been good for the Lakers, you're not being just. You're being disingenuous.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Okay, I got you.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Thanks. Facts. I. I think. And when you think about it, the fact that Kobe. That was the only team that Kobe ever played for was the Lakers. You know what I mean? He won, what, five titles? And, you know. Yeah, they. They have had a disdain for LeBron

[Podcast Host Joe]

over the years here.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

When he won the Laker. When you won the Laker and you come playing against Kobe and y' all a mono. Yeah, yeah. They had a form. And the fact that he's probably moved around to a few different. Different franchises and left his stain, you know, I mean, they embraced him, don't get me wrong. But. But, yeah, they.

[Podcast Host Joe]

They would never put him over Kobe, nor should they. And he didn't go there to try to be. He wanted to go. Cause think about it. We just read off what they were before he got there, right? They was winning 17 games, Ocho, 27 games. You were damn near getting a lot. You damn near getting the number one overall pick. It's okay. I like Kobe. I love Kobe, too.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Kobe and Braun were my two favorite players. Kobe was my favorite player before LeBron. Burns is from D.C. prince, George County. He knew about Kevin Durant. I ain't know nothing about Kevin Durant. He said, let me. Hey, Sean, let me tell you what I do. I'll give you LeBron if you let me get Kevin Durant. Cause it was my turn to take the next great player coming out of college. So it was my turn to get kd. He wanted kd. Cause KD was from his neck of the woods. I already had Kobe.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I said, hold on.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You gonna give me LeBron? And I still got Kobe for Kevin Durant. Oh, yeah. I jumped on that with both feet, Joe. I jumped on that with both feet. Yeah. I got one in the east and one in the west, and all you want is Kevin Durant, man, please. Yeah, got it. You remember. You remember they was. Thought they was going to the finals and. And LeBron averaged 38, 8 and 8. And Orlando put them out. You remember they had the Muppet Series with Kobe and LeBron? I got a T shirt now. Y' all know how long ago that's been? That's been what, 2010. I still got a T shirt 16 years later with LeBron and Kobe, the puppets on it. Y' all remember the commercial you used to have on and Kobe be going crazy. LeBron said, Come on, Kobe, man, stop.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to like them.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You can. You could. Look, I can love a player, but I ain't gonna hate. Look what I look like. Hate what Ocho look like hating somebody. Ocho, prime example. You could have. I mean, I think it helped because you and Tio was best friends before he ever arrived in Cincinnati. Cincinnati, yeah. But if somebody came and they trying to help you win a championship, man, I don't know why. Oh, the fans, they're gonna say, man, I don't know why he came here. We got Ocho. Ocho. I got Ocho. Can still be y' all guy, but I'm trying to help Ocho. Ocho want me to come help him get a championship. Hey, yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, hey, Joe. While I stood on that table, I was in Mike Brown office. I told Marvin, man, go get 81. I don't care what you got to do. I don't care what. Man, go get 81. Boy. Boy, I'm so bad. That was. That was such a joy. I was like a little kid in the candy store joke, just knowing my dog was coming to play with me. I'm getting ready to be able to play with one of the best in the world, boy. Joe, I'm talking about top three all time, Joe.

[Podcast Host Joe]

We on the same team. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, hell. I told him, you get that, boy. I ain't got no problem being Robin the Batman. Oh, I'm taking a backseat, Joe. Absolutely.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Think about that. Think about that. What Ocho had done for that organization at that point in time. Ocho was the best receiver. I. I joke with him and, you know, talk about downtown Freddie Brown or I talk about I. Curtis.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Green. A.J.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

green.

[Podcast Host Joe]

You had slim pickings. I was in the era with slim pickings. I was like, but Ocho. Ocho was the best. And for him to say, you know what? I slide to number two. Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Quick.

[Podcast Host Joe]

After six Pro Bowls in a ten year span, all pro, the leading receiver.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

It ain't many guys gonna do that.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, Joe, I. I understood what was coming, Joe. I understood what was coming. Into that building, boy. You hear me?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, hey. Was it more of. Obviously he was your partner, but did you look at it like, damn, I know he gonna take a lot of pressure.

[Podcast Host Unc]

No, no, no, no. Because I didn't see it as pressure. I was gonna get mine regardless. I understood. I understood with that dynamic how he could come help us and elevate us offensively. I understood what he could do in the slot on the outside. And then, not only that, they were always playing designed for me. And Joe, when I played, I didn't need a whole bunch of volume catches. All I needed was four or five catches a game. Joe, I'm getting off.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I wasn't doing all these little bubble screens and, you know, slant routes. Joe. I'm running.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

I'm running routes.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Balls.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I'm over a hundred.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Hey, hey. But nowadays you'll be running a little bubble screen.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Now, when you say play, you don't want that bubble screen.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, Joe. That makes that.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Hey, Joe.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Oh, y' all want to get down the field?

[Podcast Host Unc]

Hey, you heard. You heard. Hey, Joe. And okay, lying Joe.

[Podcast Host Joe]

That.

[Podcast Host Unc]

That makes me uncomfortable. I don't. Yeah, I need to know.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I need to be running around when they run.

[Podcast Host Unc]

You heard me?

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, hey, when they run that bubble, you gotta have some wiggle.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I got wiggle joke. But I don't want the wiggle where everybody's in front of me. I want to know where everybody going to be at while I'm running. You get what I'm saying?

[Podcast Host Joe]

That side impact is that collision. Because you got to realize, I catch this, I'm coming inside. Here come dt. Here, come in here, come live.

[Podcast Host Unc]

I don't want none of that, Joe. And you know what? And I. And I could. I could be honest, Joe, That. That's not my strength with. With the ball in my hands. That ain't my goddamn strength. I can't do what Chase do. He bouncing off tackles, bouncing off linebackers.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host Unc]

That ain.

[Podcast Host Joe]

I want to catch the ball, beat the corner, outrun the safety. Man. I got tackle the dn. The middle backer, the safety corner.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Oh, no, I don't want no part. Hey, Joe. I don't want no part of that.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Here. Here's the tweet, Joe. Here's the tweet that they've been digging up.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

Okay, let me see.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Look at the date. When I tweeted that, what it say? The greatest basketball players of all time. God. Air Jordan, Kobe, in that order. Hey, look at the date on that. Ojo.

[Podcast Host Unc]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Ocho]

3-11-2020.

[Podcast Host Joe]

Okay, tell the people, Ocho. Tell the people what happened in June of 2012 that year in Miami. And now Superhuman Shaq I keep telling

[Shaquille O'Neal]

them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it could sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

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T Mobile is reinventing business Internet with Super Broadband.

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[Podcast Host Joe]

plus Starlink super broadband from T mobile

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reaches every zip code in the US super broadband a new era of business Internet. Visit superbroadband.com to learn more. Based on analysis by Ooklip speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 speeds vary due to local network characteristics and management. Satellite requires hardware installation to clear view of the sky for 36 month commitment. I'm US Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We all get distracted when we drive, whether it's from our phones or kids in bickering. But how we handle these distractions can be a matter of life or death before you get on the road. For your next road trip, please put

[Podcast Host Unc]

your phones on silent and take a

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mental note to focus on driving. Paid for by nhtsa.