Nightcap Hour 1: Thunder THRASH Luka & Lakers + Cade Cunningham & Ant Man MISS OUT on ALL-NBA Awards + Carmelo Anthony says SGA has MVP on LOCK + Cooper Flagg FRUSTRATED with ROOKIE Season + Steve Kerr Will GO 1 MORE Year

Summary

Nightcap Hour 1: Thunder THRASH Luka & Lakers, All-NBA Award Controversies, and More

Date: April 3, 2026
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe (“Shay”), Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson (“Ocho”), and Joe Johnson
Episode: Nightcap Hour 1
Podcast: Shay Shay Media & Playmaker

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Episode Overview

This episode of Nightcap delivers fast, unfiltered, and often humorous takes on the night’s NBA headlines, focusing on the Oklahoma City Thunder’s blowout win over the Los Angeles Lakers, the All-NBA eligibility controversy with stars like Cade Cunningham and Anthony Edwards ruled out, Carmelo Anthony’s MVP comments on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA), Cooper Flagg’s rookie struggles, and speculation about Steve Kerr’s last run with the Warriors. Regular hosts Shannon Sharpe, Ocho Cinco, and ISO Joe Johnson bring incisive analysis, banter, and athlete’s perspective, making this episode indispensable for NBA and NFL fans.

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1. Thunder Dominate the Lakers: Statement Win and Lakers' Struggles

Segment Start: [04:22]

Key Points & Insights:

• The Oklahoma City Thunder destroyed the Lakers, 139-96.
  • Lakers looked “lethargic” and “didn’t come to play” (Joe, [04:22]).
  • Highlights OKC’s depth: 70+ bench points, with players like Isaiah Joe (13 min, 20 pts).
• Joe and Ocho credit the Thunder’s team defense and decisive playmaking, while criticizing the Lakers' lack of defensive presence and energy.
• Lakers problems:
  • Slow start, trailed by 20 after 1st quarter ([10:47]).
  • Unable to defend, rebound, or keep pace with OKC’s tempo and shooting.
  • Veterans (LeBron) aging out of perimeter defense responsibilities.
• Emphasis on effort at the end of the season as playoffs approach.

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho on OKC’s performance:
  “This was OKC putting their foot down, saying, listen... this is gonna be a statement game. We just letting y’all know, man, it’s a huge difference because it’s lonely up here at the top.” ([06:44])
• Joe on Lakers’ dilemma:
  “As good as they’ve been playing team defense... from 1 through 5 in the starter, they don’t have any good defenders. Bron’s 41... Luca is not playing defense. AR is not playing defense.” ([11:21])
• Shay on tape and accountability:
  "The tape don’t lie. Cause the tape don’t know who you are... all it does is record what it’s pointed at." ([34:03])

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2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA): The MVP Case

Segment Start: [16:08], [46:31]

Key Points & Insights:

• Enthusiastic, in-depth praise of SGA’s elite offensive skills, decision-making, and continual improvement.
• SGA compared to James Harden’s peak: unstoppable getting to the rim, manipulating defenses.
• Efficiency: SGA shooting over 50% on 30+ points per game, a feat only matched by Michael Jordan.
• Carmelo Anthony’s take: SGA has MVP “locked up.”
• Discussion of NBA “it factor”, and how teams let stars like SGA slip away due to focus on other established stars.
• SGA’s leadership driving OKC’s success—leading in clutch scoring, beating top teams, and putting up statement performances.

Notable Quotes:

• Shay (to Joe):
  “How in the hell nobody have an answer for Shay when he put that goddamn ball on the floor? Is he not the best at that right now?” ([16:08])
• Joe on SGA’s development:
  “What I like to see about guys…is to see them improve year after year after year... And for this guy to have figured it out and to be, look, I think they’re the one or two right now.” ([19:00])
• Ocho on SGA’s dominance:
  “He just, it’s like he putting his foot on the gas because he having a lot of these statement games," especially against MVP contenders. ([29:05])
• Carmelo Anthony (paraphrased by Joe):
  “Right now, Shay has that thing on lock. 135 games with 20 or more. Broke Wilt’s record… If that’s not MVP, I really don’t know what is.” ([46:31])

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3. All-NBA Award Eligibility: Cade Cunningham & Anthony Edwards Ineligible

Segment Start: [37:05]

Key Points & Insights:

• New 65-game eligibility rule for postseason awards is impacting star players.
• Cade Cunningham (collapsed lung) and Anthony Edwards (knee, illness) both miss out despite no “load management.”
• Nine of the 22 potential All-NBA/All-Defensive Team candidates ruled ineligible; discussion about the financial and contract implications for players missing out due to injury.
• The group debates fairness of the rule and unintended consequences.

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho:
  “Some things you just can’t control…damn, K. Cunningham get a collapsed lung. What are you supposed to do, Uncle Ocho?” ([37:33])
• Shay:
  “It’s almost unfair to the star players…now you’re punishing the player for being hurt.” ([38:11])
• Joe:
  “They brought this on themselves, sitting their ass down… See, these guys really hurt.” ([39:19])

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4. Rookie Struggles: Cooper Flagg's Tough First Season

Segment Start: [53:53]

Key Points & Insights:

• Cooper Flagg, number one overall pick, opens up about the mental toll of losing after a near-perfect high school and college career.
• Analysis of high expectations, steeper learning curves, and less support in struggling teams.
• Advice to Flagg: stay focused on hard work and remember the love for the game.
• The learning curve between college dominance and NBA adversity.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe’s advice:
  “Continue to just work, bro, and enjoy the game... once we become pros…you start to lose the fun in the game, because it’s a job now.” ([54:50])
• Shay on adversity:
  “It’s a whole different ball game, bro. Them grown ass men out there…they playing mortgages.” ([57:05])
• Joe on loss:
  “Losing hurts more than winning feels good.” ([58:39])

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5. Steve Kerr’s ‘Last Dance’ with the Warriors?

Segment Start: [69:17]

Key Points & Insights:

• Reports suggest Steve Kerr will return for one final season with Golden State—speculation abounds about possible major roster moves.
• Hosts doubt the Warriors can contend with the current roster, hinting at the possibility of significant shakeups.
• Discussion on Steph Curry’s future, franchise direction, and comparison to historical “last dance” seasons.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe on Warriors’ assets:
  “Unless there’s some major moves, Joe, they not winning no championship with this team.” ([70:16])
• Ocho on roster change:
  “They can’t come back with the same team.” ([72:54])
• Shay on Steph:
  “You can’t let Steph… no, Steph ain’t going nowhere. Steph ain’t going nowhere, man.” ([70:33])

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6. Winning, Losing, and Athlete Mindset

Segment Start: [58:39]

Key Points & Insights:

• Reflecting on how losses—especially big ones—drive players to improve and fuel greatness more than winning does.
• Candid stories about how losing lingers longer than the joy of winning, referencing personal and larger-than-life moments, including Michael Jordan, LeBron, and NFL greats.
• The importance of adversity in building championship character.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe:
  “Losing hurts more than winning feels good. You never feel the high. Even with winning the Super Bowl... but the losses that I had, I can only imagine losing the Super Bowl.” ([58:39])
• Shay:
  “Listen to Jordan talk and listen... what fueled him. I got tired of losing. Yeah, I got tired of losing to Boston. I got tired of losing to the Pistons. Every time I come up to the Pistons, I get beat. I come up against Boston, I get beat. Said, enough of this.” ([64:41])

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Memorable Moments

• SGA vs. the League ([16:08], [29:05], [46:31])
  • Deep breakdown of SGA’s skill set and comparisons to all-time greats.
• "Tape Don’t Lie" ([34:03])
  • Highlight on the reality of accountability in sports.
• Candid Locker Room Truths ([34:47])
  • Stories about film sessions exposing player lapses.
• Award Rule Debate ([37:05])
  • Spirited, nuanced discussion of the All-NBA games played rule.
• Losing Hurts More Than Winning Feels Good ([58:39])
  • Philosophical reflection relevant to sports and life.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Thunder Thrash Lakers: [04:22] – [15:32]
• SGA MVP Conversation: [16:08], [19:00], [46:31]
• All-NBA Awards Rule Controversy: [37:05]
• Cooper Flagg's Rookie Season: [53:53]
• Steve Kerr & Warriors Future: [69:17]
• Reflections on Winning & Losing: [58:39]

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Conclusion

This episode captures the drama, nuance, and humor of late-night sports talk at its highest level, combining raw analysis, athlete experience, and chemistry between hosts. Whether discussing SGA’s superstar rise, the business of basketball awards, or locker room realities, Nightcap’s hosts deliver takes that cut deeper than just recaps—making sense of what the scores really mean, for players and fans alike.

Transcript

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[Ocho]

What's happening? What's happening?

[Joe]

Wait. We good boy. That was that. Oh that was BTA tonight. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. Do us a favor, go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. We would like to thank each and every one of you for your support and your continued support. 2 million subs does not happen without you and we shall continue to grow. We shall continue to build Shay Shay Media thanks to you and all your continued support. So again thank you for your support and your continued support. Those looking to purchase a bottle of Shade by Laportier head over to laportiercognac.com if it's currently unavailable in a state or city near you. It is a premium VSOP Cognac, the best tasting, smoothest VSOP cognac on the market. But what you should do is purchase a bottle and compare it against other cognacs you may have tried or you're looking to try and see what we know to be true. Shea by La Portier is the best tasting, smoothest cognac on the market. Please, please drink responsibly and stay safe. Joe, let's get. And again, thank you for the 2 million subs. Joe, let's get right into it. The Thunder blow out the Lakers by the score of 139 to 96. Luca leaves the game with an apparent hamstring injury. Uh, no details as of late. I'm sure the press conference is about to happen in the next five to 10 minutes and JJ Redick will give us the diagnosis of is it something serious, something they should be worried about? I'm sure they are. Is this late is late in the season and any injury is of concern because it's probably going to keep you out, um, two or three games that maybe keep you out longer than that. But the Lakers didn't come to play today. The turnovers, the missed shots and when you play a really good team, Joe, you know, you take ill advised shots, they punish you on the other end. How many times we see guys throwing up shots, the next thing you know, guys are laying up on the other end. They don't, they didn't defend the three point line well tonight and it showed, Joe. Why? I don't know. I don't. I guess we got to look at it from before the Thunder. What did it, what did you like about the Thunder and how they took care of business tonight?

[Ocho]

I, I think. And that's why from one to three is such a huge disparity when it comes to how good OKC is on. The only team that I think they can really even challenge them for real is San Antonio because they play similar.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You know what I mean? But tonight this was, this was OKC putting their foot down, saying, listen, we, we, we see y' all playing, you know, pretty good basketball as of late. You know what I mean? Hey, it's kind of cute too. It's kind of cut. Yeah, it's kind of cute. But let me tell y' all something. This is gonna be a statement game. We just letting y' all know, man, it's a huge difference because it's lonely up here. At the top. You hear me? Hey, look, look, they came out. Shay was like, all right, Lou. Dork. I see you got it going on this first quarter, huh? You made four. Three. He.

[Joe]

He had.

[Ocho]

He had it going, man. Second quarter, Shay turned that thing all the way up to the max on them. What we always talk about. Lakers can't keep nobody in front. Hell, they been closing the gap. I see Luka jogging back with his man. Why Shea got the ISO over here coming up the court, man, you need

[Joe]

to be in the gap.

[Ocho]

Be in the gap. You can't get this, man.

[Joe]

No room.

[Ocho]

And I just felt like they took Luke out the game just being physical, you know what I mean? They.

[Joe]

Yep. See, the.

[Ocho]

The difference is they can score. OkC can score with anybody. You know what I mean? But they gonna defend better than anybody. And they just.

[Joe]

They just.

[Ocho]

They, they big boy. They, they, they big brother, the Lakers tonight, just to let them know, look, y' all keep having. Y' all look cute season y' all got going on, but trust me, y' all better stay in that third spot. This is why I tell you, they better stay in that third spot.

[Joe]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yes. So that way they play two and not have to deal with one because they're. They're not beating. Now, maybe in. In la, the games might be closer, but I think it's a sweep. And I agree with everything that you said, Joe, when you. Because when you look at what the late OKC, they got 70 plus points from their bench. I mean, guys playing. Guys played 13 minutes. Isaiah Joe played 13 minutes, 20, and had 20 points. AJ Mitchell had 16 minutes. He had 10 points. I mean, guys. I mean, they're getting whatever they want, however they want. They're getting to the rim. Rebound. Offensive rebound. 50 to 20, 50 to 38.

[Ocho]

They just won't.

[Joe]

It was embarrassing. And like you said. Yeah, it was a cute look. We understand. Lakers, Y' all won four. Y' all won 14 games in April. Luca is a Western Conference player of the world.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

But there's levels to this now. You're right. You don't understand.

[Ocho]

I'm saying.

[Joe]

I just want you to know, like you said. Oh, man. Oh, that's nice. But when you look, everybody looks good. And. And the bodybuilding, like, everybody look good when they standing by themselves.

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

Now you get your ass on stage with five, ten other guys.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now all of a sudden, well, like, damn, my back don't look as good as I thought it did. This Front lap spread don't look as good. This muscle, muscular don't look as good. So the Lakers playing something. You're not playing the Thunder. So beating, beating Cleveland or beating Indiana or beating, beating the Knicks. Oh, man. Damn. Look at the Lakers. Had us, had me hyped. I was hyped for a first round.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Because I don't believe they can beat San Antonio and I don't believe they can beat okc. Do I believe they can beat anybody else in the playoffs? Yes, but. But with a caveat. You mess around and drop back to the fourth spot and you got to deal with the Nuggets, with the way the Nuggets are playing. And now they done got everybody back. You're not seeing the Nuggets either.

[Ocho]

You don't want the problems. You don't want them problems. Man, listen. Hey, it's just a huge gap, huh?

[Joe]

It is.

[Ocho]

It was nothing. It was nothing they could do. I mean, Shay getting to all his spots, they couldn't stop him. They couldn't keep him in front. It was. Man, they took the night off after. Hey, look, after the. After at halftime when I said, Damn, they got 82 points.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You ain't beat nobody with no damn 82 points at halftime.

[Joe]

I mean, I remember times, the teams that couldn't score 82 points in a full game, team was scoring 73, 68 point. They. They game final score a 73 to 68. They got 82 at the half. That and look, I knew it was over in the first quarter, Joe.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they were down 20.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, I'm like, the Lakers gotta know they can't. I'm speaking for the players. I know, I'm sure, I'm pretty sure the coaches know, but I know Braun and Luke and AR and them know, man, you cannot get off to no slow start against no team like OKC on the road. They not letting you back in the game, bro.

[Joe]

No.

[Ocho]

You down 20 after the first quarter. I said, I said, boy, this hit thing, this thing finna get ugly. Next thing you know, they down 30 at the half and gave up 82 points. Man, you ain't be nobody like that, huh?

[Joe]

As good as they've been playing team defense. Cause they don't really. When you really look at it, Joe, from 1 through 5 in the starter, they don't have any good defenders. Bronze41. I'm not asking a 41 year old to goddamn sit in the chair and slide his feet side to side, front to back for 35 minutes a night. And that's what he's playing. He about playing somewhere between 34 and 35 minutes a night. I'm not asking him to do that. Luca is not playing defense. AR is not playing defense. Tonight was one of those night for DA. I mean one rebound, no assist in 20 minutes. At seven foot tall, you should be able to. You should be able to get at least. You should be able to get me three rebounds every five minutes that you on the court. At least three. That's all I'm asking.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they can't, they couldn't get no stops.

[Joe]

But I guess when you're taking the ball out the net, it's hard to get a rebound. You don't get credit for a rebound. You take it out today.

[Ocho]

That's what I'm saying.

[Joe]

It's like Joe, they got up a hundred. Joe, the Thunder got up 102 shots. I don't remember the last time I saw somebody get up 102. A hundred and two shots. 54 from the floor, 45 from the the three. And they only shot 13 free throws. Shea shot 25 by himself the other night. Oh, if you really look at it, it was an off night for the Thunder. And, and they got 139.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey. Everybody on OKC team is live. And what I mean by live is when they catch it, they don't have no indecision on what it is they gonna do. They, they, they very decisive on their decision making. I'm talking about whether it's I'm gonna score. I'm a penetrate kick. When you watch the lake, everybody's like that.

[Joe]

When they play the Lakers, you live put the ball on the floor. Nobody's gonna be able to keep you in front of them. So I, hey, at least I will get. If I don't get all the way to the basket, I'm going to get halfway to the basket, somebody's going to come, somebody's gonna. How many times you see the driving kick for wide open threes, corner threes, top of the key threes, side three. How many times we see that tonight?

[Ocho]

A bunch of times.

[Joe]

So that's the problem that the Lakers have anybody when they played like everybody is live. Everybody looks like an all star or an all NBA player for the most part. When they play the Lakers. Yeah, they play great. They over the in March they played really, really good team. Help defense.

[Ocho]

Yeah but, but the, the, the thing is. And that's what they have to. That's what they have to stick to on. They have to be a A. A team that. That helps defensively and play great team defense. Because if you don't have great individual defenders, then you gotta have great team defense, meaning closing off lanes, sprinting back to where we all can see ball. Man, it was too many times I seen them dudes jogging up the court with they man while the ball on the other side of the court, knowing already to keep nobody in front of them.

[Joe]

The problem that you have, Joe, is that to play help defense, you got to be locked in all the time for the full 48 minutes of the game. Because any breakdown is a layup or it's a wide open shot. And so when one person is disengaged, that's why a team is so valuable, because you're only as strong as the weakest link. So if one person has a breakdown, two people have a breakdown, it's a layup. And when you play come in like they did tonight and you're not. You're half. You're half hearted. You're going through the motions. You get 80 plus points hung on you in the first half, you get 80 or 45 points hung on you in the first quarter, and you get beat like this here. That's embarrassing.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, man. But, but, but, but, but think about it, you know, this is why I say they have to be on the string. This is why they can't take plays off. Unk. We at the end of the season, we still jockeying for playoff position. Like, we can't. We shouldn't come out lethargic like that if I'm the Lakers, you know what I'm saying? Like, we should come out ready if, if, if. We can't control nothing now. We can't control if we miss a miss or make shots. But our energy and effort got to be a constant. It's got to be a constant.

[Joe]

Oh, we see Ocho has joined us, joined us tonight.

[Ocho]

What's up, gang?

[Joe]

Good. You finally got it fixed.

[Shay]

Yep, yep.

[Ocho]

Every.

[Shay]

Everything is good now. Everything is good now. I'm happy to be here. I miss y'. All. And outside of that.

[Ocho]

What's up, twin?

[Shay]

Hey, I'm feeling good.

[Ocho]

What's up, twin?

[Shay]

Now, twin? I'm good. I'm good. I'm right here, twin. You know, I'm just, I'm just, you know, anytime I get to lay eyes on, on, on my fellas, man, it's. It's a blessing, you know, God is

[Ocho]

good all the time, Joe.

[Joe]

I'm just trying to figure out. Think about it, boy. I love to be Shay that man got on 25 shots in 30 minutes.

[Ocho]

Oh, oh, look.

[Shay]

Hey, hey, hey, I got a. Hey, I got a question, Joe. Hey, Uncle Joe. Man, how in the hell nobody have an answer for Shay when he put that goddamn ball on the floor? Boy, you talking about being able to manipulate defenders, being able to get to a spot and do what he want to do. Hey, hey, is he. Is he. Is he not the best at that right now?

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, you seen it? You seen it. Hey, listen, you see the way that boy be bending them corners when he get low? They can't do nothing with him. See, he already know. Ooh, them dudes can't stand in front of him, man. He already know that. You know what I mean? And the pressure that he put on them dudes. You got to be in some shape, man, to. To be able to compete with that team.

[Joe]

It's almost like Venice. James Harden, Remember James Harden had that stretch Joe in Houston, and nobody could keep him out of the lane. Nobody could keep him from the basket. And he would all. He was getting those fouls. Cause he'd get you on his hip, and then he jumped back into you because, remember, they changed the rules. Because before, you know, he was jumping into guys, getting filed on three point shots.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Making four point plays. But Shay right now, he.

[Shay]

He.

[Joe]

The game is like. It's like he sees everything. It's almost like the Minority Report. And I know we saw that with Tom. With Tom Cruise and how he. And everything. The Precogs.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

See things before it actually happened.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That shape. He can see things. He's like, okay, I know where y' all gonna be. Like, I'm gonna go here. You gonna come there and. Okay, you know what? I can squeeze through here. I can. You know what? I can get through this.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If you live in the country, you know, if you got an entrance. Mike's coming in your house. Hey, you're like, man, I don't know how they got in.

[Ocho]

Let me show you how they got

[Joe]

in right here, man. How'd she get to the basket? Hey, stop it right there. That's how he got in right there. Look at that gap y' all got between y' all two. Y' all basically got to be stacked. Y' all gotta be leg behind leg. Because if you're not. If there's a crease, he's getting through there.

[Ocho]

Hey. And it seems like. It seems like he's moving at just a pace that's just a lot faster than everybody else. I don't know if it's me. But you see how he lured you to sleep and then he hit that quick burst and like he going right by him. Like the, the game is so easy for him, man. I love watching him play. And you can. I think, I think what I love the most is how he uses his body to create contact.

[Joe]

He, you, he.

[Ocho]

He uses the defender's momentum when they guard them to get them bumps, get into his. Get into his midi. Get into his fade aways.

[Joe]

He.

[Ocho]

Him, bro. He. I know he a tough guard out there. I mean, they can't do nothing with him out there, Uncle Ojo.

[Joe]

Okay. No, they can't. I mean, they try to. Look, he's. He's having one of those.

[Ocho]

He's having.

[Joe]

And what I like to see about guys, because, look, he's a first round pick, but they didn't see this.

[Ocho]

No.

[Joe]

And I like to see guys improve year after year after year after year. You know, I mean, you're a top five pick. You're like. I mean, we expect to think, even lottery picks, I mean, most of the time, guys that win MVP, maybe with the exception of Jokic being in the second round, but for the most part, they top five top 10 picks.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

You getting Bird, Magic, Kareem, you getting Jordan. You know, Kobe won an MVP. You get guys like Harden, you get LeBron, you know, you get guys at the top of the food chain.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But for this guy to, to, to have figured it out and to be. Look, I think they're the one or two right now still. If you gave me a choice of you, I'm gonna give you one player to take right now to start your franchise with. I'm taking Jokic. I just, I'm always gonna take the bigger. The bigger guy, but he ain't. I mean, right now it's him, Jokic, and I believe it's Wimby. I believe those are the three best players, Joe, in the NBA right now. I just, it's just hard for me. I just. I just can't leave. 29, 29, 13 and 10. 29, 13, 11. Joe, I just can't leave that.

[Ocho]

I know.

[Joe]

Hey, leave it. I know.

[Shay]

Hey, you know. You know what I don't understand? You know what I don't understand, Uncle Joe. Listen, all of us, especially at that level with regards to sports you play, we have a thing called understand another game. There are certain things that players have. It's called the it factor. And the fact that even when he was with the Clippers, not as great as Kawhi Was I understand the run that Kawhi had, obviously winning with Toronto, you know, but how do you see what Shay is doing and you see the it factor and you see the understanding of, okay, he's special, you still let him go. There's no way. They say, you know, we going to let him go because there's no way he going to turn out the wood. He's been that. There has to be some of what we're seeing now over there. When he was in la, it had to be. How can you not see that Joe

[Joe]

wasn't on here when we had T. Mac and T. Mack said he believed. He said James Harden would have been the same guy that he turned out to be had he stayed in OKC with KD and LaRuss. And I said, there's no way because he's not going to have the ball. I say there's no. I say T Mac, there's no way. And I hate arguing with a guy that's a Hall of Fame player. But it's hard for me to fathom that with the ball going to be in Russ Hand at the end of the game or KD and James Harden turns out to be what he is. James Harden is not going to be a top 75 player with those guys. He had to go to Houston and have the ball. Now, if you tell me we're going to move on, could Shea have business in la? Yes. But I believe as long as Paul, George and Kawhi is not there, because he's going to be the third option.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Third option. Don't. Don't blossom like this. So guess what they did? Even when they had Chris Paul in okc. What did they do to Chris Paul? They got up off him.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

What did they do? James Harden had Chris Paul. What did they do? They got up off him because he was gonna have the ball. He needed the ball too. What did they do with Russ? They got up off him.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm just a better example. Norm Nixon. Norm Nixon was an all star point guard with the Lakers. They got magic. What do they do to Storm and Norman trade him to the Clippers.

[Ocho]

That's the goal.

[Shay]

Hey, we talk about the. Hey, hey. We talk about the best of the best, huh?

[Joe]

Yes.

[Shay]

You know, so basically what you're saying, if they don't have the ball in their hand, then they one dimensional. They mean they can't. They have no other aspects of their game. They can evolve and, and change their game to be able to shoot whoever has the ball all the goddamn time saying their greatness is damn near stifled because they don't have the ball.

[Joe]

Oo with the ball in their hands. You got. Let me try to give you an example. Let me ask you a question. If t. If Jerry Rice stays in San Francisco and they still feed him, can Tio become what he became in San Francisco?

[Shay]

No. Because it's only one ball to go around.

[Joe]

That's my point. So in order. In order for to. In order for to grow, what did they do to Jared Ocho?

[Shay]

You gotta go

[Joe]

for JSN to do what he did and become what he became. Could DK have been there? Could Tyler Lockett have stayed there?

[Ocho]

No, sir.

[Shay]

No. I don't know why I'm viewing the basketball game a little different.

[Joe]

Because look, look, some guys can play off the ball. Luca needs the ball in his hand. LeBron has been able to adapt for the longest. LeBron can play off the ball. He still, I still believe LeBron would be better if he had the ball. But he understands at 45, this is Lucas team now he has to adapt. He's better at adapting. And because he's played so long, he had to adapt. LeBron was a downhill guy. Well, as you get older, you can't get downhill like you once could. So what did he have to do? Develop the three ball?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

He knew he was gonna lose some athleticism. What did he do? A king. Teach me. Hey, teach me that dream shake.

[Ocho]

Yeah, let me get some of that.

[Joe]

Kobe went to the dream shake. Kobe went to Elijah 1. So teach me that. So in other words, Ocho. Yes. You got to think about it. You got a two time defensive player of the year and a two time finals MVP in his 20s. He's 20 something years old. You're not turning the franchise over to a guy in his second or third year when you just gave up heaven and earth to get that guy. Right?

[Shay]

Yeah. And some people obviously that know the game better than I do. I mean, Uncle Joe, Joe, when I think about it, I look, I look at football players, obviously you're only good as your opportunities you get. And being in basketball, it's only five people on the court. And, and most of the time, even if you do have someone single handedly holding the ball most of the time, if you're great, no matter what, whether you handle it or not, that greatness is always going to show. Because when those opportunities present themselves, yeah, I'm there. I'm gonna show up. That, that's, that's why I only have a little bit of pushback. But obviously uncle, and you would know better than I do, especially in that. Because regardless of how great you are, if your game evolves and you have to adapt to the situation that you win because someone else has the ball, most of the time I'm just thinking, listen, no matter where I'm at, no matter the situation, greatness is going to always show up and you gonna be that guy. Especially with the way, the way Shay playing.

[Joe]

But he needs the ball in order to be that. Shay is really not an off the ball player. If you notice when Shay's in the game, what does she have in his hand? Ocho. He had the ball.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Can he occasionally slash? Can he occasionally dive? Yes. But most of the time he's calling for the pick.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Or telling him to get out the

[Joe]

way or get out of the way. Mainly is Jalen Williams coming off the, coming off the pin down, coming off the slip or the flare. That's not Shay. Yes. Guys can be great. Magic Johnson needed the ball. Magic Johnson is a point guard.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Could he cut occasion? Yeah, he could. Because sometimes Norm Nixon had the ball. But magic was not going to be the Magic without that drop.

[Ocho]

Absolutely not.

[Joe]

And that's why, that's why Bigs don't get the credit that they deserve. Because what I got to get you the ball.

[Shay]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

People don't give Kareem, Will, Russell, Duncan, Shaq. They don't get the credit they deserve. Man, he can't do nothing without the ball. At least most guards, most small guys, six, eight and under the handle the ball. Guess what? I can bring the ball up the court. Yeah, occasionally. We saw Shaq, you know, a couple of times get open break, but for the most part, that's not what they do it.

[Ocho]

Right. Right.

[Joe]

But Shay is. I've been watching a lot of balls. He's. He, he, he's in that, he's in that stretch right now, Joe. He's in that stretch now. Some guys stand to say a long, long time.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Jordan was in it from 81, from 84 to 91, 92. He retired, come back and then get back in it again. And you see LeBron, you see Kobe, you see James Harden. I'm talking about guys that have the ball and we like, they out there touring with folk, man. James Hartman. Joe, you was in the league when James like this, man, literally playing with people. Yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

He wasn't. Hey, I think with Shea, what's this, his third, fourth year in a row, averaging 30 a game.

[Joe]

Yes. And he shoot 50%. That's what you. That's what. It's the, the most impressive thing to me is not the 30 because you can take a bunch of bad shots and get the 30 points. You shoot enough 30 points, but it's the 50%.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Only he and Jordan has ever scored 30 and, and shot 50% of battle. Let that sink in.

[Ocho]

As a perimeter guy. Yeah.

[Joe]

That's as a guard. At guards.

[Ocho]

As a guard. Yeah.

[Joe]

Big. The big's out of question. I mean, they dunking the ball, laying the ball up. They don't count.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I mean, joke is shooting 57. Damn. Percent. Shaq. I think Shaq might be a career 58, 59. He was shooting. I remember. What, what was that? DeAndre Jordan shot like 70% all over alley hoop dunks, lob dunks, put back dunks and layups.

[Ocho]

I think he should. I think Shay's shooting like 53, 54%. Yes, like that. I don't think people understand how insane that is to be a guard.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Shooting that percentage. Like, bro, you are. Not only are you efficient, but you're so consistent. You know what I mean? Night. On a night to night basis, bro, you can bet your money on. Dude, man. Hey, he getting it done. Okay, Ocho.

[Joe]

Bet your bottom dollar.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey. And, and the thing is, you know, he just, it's like he putting his foot on the gas because he having a lot of these statement games, you know, they run. You talking about your own uncle. It's like everybody who we play against that's supposed to be competing within this MVP race and that boy putting it down, man, he ain't playing outside of when they played Boston.

[Joe]

Hey, since I got y' all here. Hey, let me show y' all something.

[Shay]

Hey, after, afternight, after tonight's game, does that change your view on the Lakers? Despite how, how happy.

[Joe]

I never, I never. Ocho. I never thought they could beat the Thunder. I never thought they can be San Antonio in seven games.

[Ocho]

Okay, but, but, but for the Lakers to be a three seed, Ocho.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You can't get beat like that.

[Shay]

They can't lay an egg.

[Ocho]

Like, man, you see the. No, no, what I'm saying is it's a huge gap in. That's how great. That's how great OKC is. That's what I'm saying. I, I think the Lakers pretty good. But when you talking about competing against the best, the champs. Come on, King and 10.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Joe]

So I can breathe. Why do you need to breathe? So I can think. If I can breathe if I can breathe I can think if I can think if I can think if I can think then I can win. Rated R in theater sequel 10th.

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[Joe]

I'm trying to run as fast AS

[Shay]

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[Ocho]

You can't come out here and y' all get off then y' all down 8.18to4 to start the man please. Who y' all finna you get down on this team, they gonna put you away.

[Joe]

And and and and that building starts to rocking because there's nothing else going on there. Oklahoma is college is football. Oklahoma, Oklahoma State. That's what you got. So that's. So they going crazy. Yeah, it was. It was embarrassing that the Lakers came out and gave that kind of effort after the effort that they've been given the last month for them to put that kind of. To put that on table. So, you know, that's what we say. That's what you put on tape.

[Shay]

Hey, that's what you know.

[Joe]

You know people gonna see that, right?

[Shay]

Oh yeah.

[Joe]

I just want you to know the next team and the next team and the next team. That's what they gonna see. The tape don't lie. See, that's what I tell people. Tape don't lie. Cause the tape don't know who you are. It doesn't know if you black or white. It doesn't know if you make 20 or $20 million. It don't know nothing. It don't know what time of day it is. It don't tell nothing. All they do is record what the hell is pointed at.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, hey. Look, when I used to be in the games, that's all I used to be thinking about. Okay, Ocho. I gotta make sure I'm in my spot. That way when we look at film tomorrow, calling Joe talking about waiting do

[Joe]

this Joe, why you wasn't here?

[Ocho]

I should hate that. So I make sure I'm always in my spot. I make sure I got a hand. Yeah. Make sure I close out hard. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Little stuff.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Cause I already know because it get real bad. We gonna watch that thing. And the last thing that you want to do is watch that thing of the team, Ocho. Like, oh, Lord have mercy.

[Shay]

Yeah. And air. And everybody looking at you.

[Joe]

Hey, hey, 84, what you doing on this one, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah, that's me.

[Ocho]

Hey, they keep rewinding it, too.

[Joe]

Yeah, Joe, we had. We had the special team. We had a. Our special team coach at the time was Richard Smith.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And kicked off playing San Francisco. Boom. I'm talking about the dude. I'm talking about. Dude got. He was on kickoff team. The kick returned. Dude jacked him up, bow. So he read it back. He said, I'm tired of telling you every time I talk to you at every game, you're on the ground. So he rewinded. Look, you're on the ground again. Rewind it. You're on the ground again. He rewinded five times. Talking about, you're on the ground again. It's the same play. I was like, I wonder if he knows that this is the same place. He just rewind. But the thing is, Joe, you know, a lot of times you can get away with stuff in the game, cuz you like, oh, no, we. You know, we don't blow this team out.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

We ain't gonna watch this tape or anything like that, but when you get everybody. An entire offense is there together. So the offensive line watching it, the wide receivers and running backs and quarterbacks, so we in there as a unit. I'll be like, God dang, you. Sorry. Damn. I'm like, hey, hey, 84, you got to be strong with your outside. You just saw that man pull the. Out of our tackles at 300 pounds, and you talk about sharp. You need to be strong with your outside arm. You should have told him.

[Shay]

Okay.

[Ocho]

Hey, that film says, hey, boy. Hey. That field says it'll start a fight for sure. Hey, yeah. Hey, that film says you're real, boy.

[Joe]

They run that back.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

All right, bro. We just saw it. Now.

[Ocho]

Okay, Now.

[Joe]

Okay. Keep being funny. Enough is enough. Keep being funny now.

[Ocho]

Yeah,

[Joe]

I don't miss those days, man. Listen, Kate Cunningham is out at least one more week due to a collapsed lung. And Anthony Edwards, out due to a reoccurring knee issue plus an illness. Both will be unable to play the minimum 65 games required to be eligible for postseason awards. Nine of the 22 players who may be all NBA or all Defensive teams are now ineligible this season.

[Ocho]

Joe, this is insane, fellas, you know, because some things you just can't control. And you know, you put the rule in because you want to punish guys for low management and things of sort, but damn, K. Cunningham get a collapsed lawn. What are you supposed to do, Uncle Ocho? What are you supposed to do now? Yeah, he can't even. He can't even. Come on, man. Man, he, he.

[Joe]

Somebody gonna get those spots, Joe. They gonna get a big contract extension because they got it all NBA. All in all. Defensive team.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Shay]

Because they were. Because they was available.

[Ocho]

Yes. They gotta pick somebody.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Shay]

Hey, it. It's. It's almost unfair. It's almost unfair to the star players that would make. That would get all. That would get all NBA, you know, especially when if an injury, you know, comes about and now you're punishing the player for being hurt.

[Ocho]

Well, it looked like we agreed to this. We had to agree to this 65 game you got to play.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Shay]

Yeah, that's. Hey, that's tough.

[Ocho]

Yeah, because. Because K definitely would have been. He for sure, probably would have been first or second.

[Joe]

Second team. Yeah, because it's going to be hard because when you look at it, Joe, you got Luca, you got Shay, you got jb, you got K. Cunningham, you got Wimby, and you got Jokic. That's six players. Only five get to the first team.

[Ocho]

Yeah. So you might well take K. Don't want up out of there now.

[Joe]

K'd off all the teams.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Second, first, second and third. So now somebody gets to come into the mix that might have been on the outside looking at two people right on the outside looking in.

[Ocho]

Damn, that's wild, man. Yes, but this, this is.

[Joe]

They brought this on themselves, sitting their ass down. The big games come on Saturday night or the games come on and ain't nobody available. So the NBA said, you know what? We put a stop to this. 65 games. They agreed to it. Cuz sound like a good idea at the time. It's not like a good idea. See what happens is that the boy that cried wolf, Ocho, he cried wolf so many times that when the wolf actually came, ain't nobody listen.

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

See, these guys really hurt.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Joe]

They lied so much about injury. And I'm injured. I'm this and I'm that. Boom, there it is.

[Shay]

You got. They shouldn't agree to it, Hun, Joe,

[Ocho]

man, I mean, I. I don't I ain't gonna say you shouldn't agree to it. I just think obviously it's it. It cut out the load management to some degree.

[Joe]

But.

[Ocho]

Yeah, just. You just had these unfortunate situations with the Anthony Edwards and K. You know, them dudes love playing, man. They don't be right like that.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You know what I mean? So you got guys who you were trying to punish, but you end up punishing the innocent that actually hurts. These dudes are showman, bro. When they come, they play every night, they put on the show, they put up numbers, they great for the game. And it's just unfortunate that this rule has kind of ruled them out for any awards.

[Joe]

But guess what, Joe.

[Ocho]

What's that?

[Joe]

It also got guys come because normally guys take an extra week. Well, you know, I'm gonna make sure I'm healthy. It got guys bringing their ass back. You see? Jokic brought his ass back, didn't he?

[Ocho]

You see?

[Joe]

Wimby brought his ass back, didn't he?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Luca brought his ass back, didn't it?

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

It got guys bringing their ass back instead of saying, you know, I'm gonna take me an extra week off. Okay.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Right, right, right.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

These guys sometimes, Ocho, you gotta impact them pockets.

[Shay]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

I hate it. I do. It's different. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Shay]

I was gonna say, every time they win one of those awards, Joe, you get extra money, like an incentive.

[Ocho]

Some people got incentives, but.

[Joe]

But yeah, yeah, you get that supermax.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's when you start getting the four. You. The five years, 300. That's when you start getting. That's when you start getting on up there. You get the all NBA team all defensive or an MVP or defensive Player of the Year. So you get those awards. It's kind of like, Ocho, if we had. Not like. Like if we did it like football. A Pro Bowl.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joe]

Or an All Pro or receipt. Wide receiver. I. I don't know if they still do that. NFL, pa. Wide Receiver of the Year. I did still do that, Ocho.

[Shay]

I heard that. I ain't heard Wide Receiver of the Year before. I've heard all the Offensive Player of the year. Outside of that.

[Joe]

They used to have what you call them, because I was tight end. I was a tight end. I was in 96. I was the tight end. Hell, I thought he should have won it a couple more times. But that's neither here nor there. But no, they used the NFL upa. Used to have. Used to have used. Award.

[Shay]

Yeah. I ain't know about that. And that's messed up how they play with them boys. Money like that. Now, damn, if you don't play. If you don't play, shoot if you miss. Oh, so now I'm not. I'm not eligible for the Super Max? Because now I'm really hurt and you want to punish me for that.

[Ocho]

Hey, Ruler, a rule is a rule, man. You signed up for it. Yes, that.

[Joe]

And that's the thing, Ocho. It's like what we talk about, Ocho.

[Ocho]

We get mad.

[Joe]

Cause guys ain't got guaranteed contracts. But what do those guys do? You see, right now, the. The CBA ain't up until 2030. The NFL already going back to the networks. Say, look at what y' all try to do. Put a little package. You see what they did? We ain't talking about this, but you see what they did, Ocho? Remember they used to have the double head and the triple head On Monday night, they say, we're gonna take that away. What we gonna do? We're gonna package it. Now, who won the 5, 6 game packages for about 500 meal? Definitely say we want it. Amazon say, we'll take it. You see how they did that on Joke?

[Shay]

Hey, now they. Now they bidding. They want highest bills. Come on, talk to them.

[Joe]

Now the money is there. Kirk Cousins. Do you realize, like, 97, 98 of Kirk cousins money has been guaranteed? So this notion that they can't guarantee, it's just not true. Oh, oh, yeah. But see, you say, hey, Kirk cousin, y' all want your boy? Hey, do what I need. I need to make the money, right? Yeah. I don't need my money to jump funny. At no point in time. Make the money right.

[Shay]

Funny thing about it.

[Joe]

So

[Shay]

now I would say for somebody like Kirk Cousins, I mean, you know, God has favor, and it's all about timing. When it's in the NFL and at times, Uncle Joe, you got to bet on yourself. And when it comes to good luck and when it comes to timing, Kirk Cousins has been a model citizen in that area. Because he is hit right every single time. Uncle, if I'm not mistaken, is he. Is he not the highest grossing NFL quarterback of all time?

[Joe]

When it's all said and done, he just got 20 million guaranteed from the. The Raiders and the Falcons still owed him 10.

[Ocho]

Get money there, Kirk. Kirk had to get money.

[Joe]

But it just goes to show you, Ocho, you know why he was able to get guaranteed money?

[Ocho]

Why?

[Joe]

Because they really wanted him. They franchised him twice. And Minnesota says, you know what we want you we're gonna put you on a three year deal and we'll fully guarantee the contract. They said, well, damn.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Joe]

He's like, you do that for me, okay, you want me to come back, I'm gonna need another three years fully guaranteed.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You know how I know they'll fully guarantee the contract cut? The Cleveland Browns did it for Deshaun Watson. 230 million.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So they can, if they wanted to guarantee money if the players really put their foot down. But you got to be able to miss some checks. We got to be able to get some checks. Now, the problem that you have is that a lot of times the lower tier guys don't see themselves as guys being able to make that big money. So they say, I need this right now.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

See, they don't look at themselves like the star quarterbacks. Star quarterback say, let me have you two look at our Brock purdy, prime example, Mr. Irrelevant. One of the highest paid players in the NFL. I don't know if wide receivers and other positions see themselves as that being possibly them. Only the quarterbacks look like, well, damn, I could be bad for a year or two. Have one good year.

[Shay]

And still. And yeah, you said you set the life.

[Joe]

So that's like. But that's. But that's how you got to do it. And I just think the thing is, the NBA said, man, I'm tired of y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Joe]

Y' all talking about load. And how do. How do I know? Ocho, you say, man, you call, hey, man, I'm a little under the weather, so I. I ain't gonna be able to. I ain't gonna be able to make work. How do I know? How do I know I ain't in that person's body? So I don't know if his ankle is really hurting, if he's really dealing with any soreness or his back is hurt. So I tell you what I'm gonna do. We know y' all want them titles because, hey, when it comes down to picking, hey, how many all star time. How many all NBA selections were you? How many all Defensive Warrior MVPs were you?

[Ocho]

Hey, they paying for that. You get a little extra for all that.

[Joe]

A lot of extra. Carmelo Anthony believes SGA has the MVP locked up. Mellow said, right now, Shay is. Has that thing on the lock. 135 games with 20 or more. He broke Wilt's record. He's shooting 55 from the field. He's having a better MVP season this year than he did last year. And he leaves the league in clutch scoring. Carrying that defending champs maybe again to the best record in the NBA. If that's not mvp, I really don't know what is. If he wins it this year, he's up there with LeBron, MJ and Russell.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shay]

Damn.

[Joe]

I think the thing is because he's back to back. Yeah right. Bird. Bird is the last to win it three consecutive times. He won it 84, 85, 86. He's the last three time MVP. Jokic is the last two time back to back. Jokic won it back to back. Lebron won it back to back twice. Jordan obviously won it back to back. I'm trying to think the Magic winning back to back. I'm not sure I know Kareem. I know Kareem.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

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[Shay]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

so the back to back oh it's it's tough Ocho cause you talking about the 80 year history and LeBron, Jordan Bird, Kareem. Russell Chamberlain got six guys off the top of my head unless Magic check and see if Magic won. I know Magic won it three times but I don't know if he went back to back.

[Ocho]

Hey he gonna get it too. He gonna win it this year.

[Shay]

He gonna win MVP and so probably, probably from now on based on the trajectory if I said that right so

[Joe]

went back to back didn't he Joe?

[Ocho]

MVPs.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah I think he did because I know one year he sandwiched a defensive player of the year with one of those MVPs.

[Ocho]

I don't know. I don't Know, I don't know if it was back to back. He may have had. He may have, though.

[Joe]

Okay, so after this stuff, go back to back because I know he won. He won in 2015 when he. 2015, 16 when he was unanimous MVP.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I don't think he wanted back to back, though. What'd you say?

[Shay]

I say after SJ SGA winning back to back this year, Wimby's probably gonna be back to back as well, maybe the way he's going.

[Ocho]

And hey, O, he might be on some.

[Joe]

If he.

[Ocho]

If WIMBY at what, 23 a game now? I. I say it's probably gonna go up another two or three points.

[Joe]

And Nash, your ex teammate, wanted back to back. Joe, were you there when he went back to back?

[Ocho]

Yeah, I was there the first year. I was gone in the second year. I only played one year with Nash.

[Joe]

But yeah, you look at it, I mean, it's rare. It doesn't happen often and it damn sure don't happen in the NFL, Ocho, you know that. Hell, I think Peyton might be the. Maybe Jim Brown.

[Ocho]

Yes. Hey, man, Shay taking it personal, bro. And I heard. I heard him, I heard him in the interview say, you know, it didn't sit well with him last postseason, you know, because even though they wanted. But them going seven games with Indiana. Yeah, he said he didn't feel like. Huh.

[Joe]

And Nuggets.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he said he didn't feel like, you know, he felt he could have played better. I ain't gonna say he. He didn't feel like he was an mvp, but he felt like he could have played better. And that's what they playing like right now, man. They playing with an edge, they playing with attitude. And dude playing like he's determined, you know what I mean? Like he gonna show everybody who the best player. Now I ain't got to be out here advocating for myself talking about I should be mvp. I don't do all that my game gonna do all the talking, partner.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, right. Cooper flag says rookie season has been really mentally taxing. Obviously it's been tough. You, like you said through high school, college, I mean, only lost four games last year. So there's been times this of this season where it's been really taxing on me just not having the success that I would have hoped for. And obviously we've had a lot of injuries and a lot of things happen throughout the year, but it's obviously not been ideal. And I mean, I've had a grow, I've had growth along the way and I've had and I've gotten better to learn on the fly. Definitely not the start I would have looked for. But think hopefully eventually I'll be able to look back and know I was able to learn a lot from this Joe Sport that you played. Obviously, first round, number one pick overall, high expectations, and he's shown flashes that he was the right pick to be number one overall. But what advice. If, you know, you could talk to Cooper Flag, what advice would you give him?

[Ocho]

Man, the advice I would give him, Ocho, is to continue to just work, bro, and. And enjoy the game. You know, I think. I think once we. Once we become pros and you see the work that you have to put into, you start to lose the fun in the game. You know what I mean? Because it's a job now. You know it. You know you getting it. Yes. Gotta. You know, you got bills and stuff now. So I think. I think guys have a tendency to, you know, lose sight of what really got you started into playing whatever game it was, football or basketball. You know what I mean? You got to continue to still love it. You can't look at it like a job. Obviously, his right. The Dallas Mavericks expectation for Cooper Flag was come in and play with Kyrie and A.D. well, both of them got hurt, and this is kind of what you was left with. So he. His learning curve had to be sped up a little bit. Yeah. And, yeah, you come from a place where you haven't lost a lot of games, man. When you get to the pros, it's a reality check. When you're a number one pick, when you're a top pick and you have to learn the game on the fly like that, you ain't really got nobody to learn from. You know what I mean?

[Shay]

Right.

[Ocho]

Take a toll on you, bro. It's a learning curve that you have to go through.

[Joe]

But guess what, Joe?

[Ocho]

What's that?

[Joe]

At Duke, he trotted his ass out there on the court. He had the five best player. He had the four. His team had the five best players on the court. When you trot your ass out there every night, you ain't got the five best players on your team on the

[Ocho]

court,

[Shay]

you got the who. You got to hold your own.

[Joe]

Now, how many times did he. With Duke, with all those five stars that they had, Jody, they took the court that they didn't have the five best starters on the court or four out of the five.

[Ocho]

Right, Right.

[Joe]

And it's been like that for years.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You go to the NFL, hey, Ohio State or Alabama or whomever else they normally step on the field on the 22 starters. They probably got 15 of the best. 22 step your ass on the field in the NFL game or NBA game and see how that look to how to work out. But for you, because you're gonna be a whole different level. Them grown ass men ain't no study hall.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Ain't no per diem. They playing for college tuitions. They playing mortgages.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Real talk.

[Joe]

A lot of them got mom and sometimes that not only do they take care of their mom, they can't. They take care of mama mom.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

It's a whole different ball game, bro. Them grown ass men out there.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Grown, grown.

[Ocho]

And you're a target. When you're an early pick, number one

[Joe]

pick, you come a lottery. Food on my table, boy.

[Ocho]

You a lottery. I mean you are you, you a target. Meaning like every time, every chance somebody get to play against you, you gonna get they absolute best.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Shay]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

You know that Ocho. It don't even matter. It damn the number one db, the number two or three, like, man, I got Ocho, man, if I bat this ball down, I get me a pick.

[Shay]

Hey, hey, you know that man. You know how that mentality was.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Shay]

Everybody can get it, coaches and all.

[Joe]

It didn't matter where I was. We go to the Pro Bowl. I ain't let you get. You're not getting me because you first of all, just cause we cross the water, don't think you can guard me. Ain't nothing change. Ain't nothing changed. Because what's gonna happen on your. You gonna get your ass back to the main lane and think you can cover me. No, you can't.

[Shay]

And then hey. And thinking she'll sweet you can't.

[Joe]

Yeah. Just cause we came 10 hours.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Guess what? When we get your ass back to this mainland and I see you, you know what's gonna happen.

[Shay]

Same is the same, man, please.

[Ocho]

I'm telling you.

[Joe]

But it's tough. I mean, losing. Look, I promise you, losing hurts more than winning. Feels good.

[Ocho]

You ain't lying, boy.

[Joe]

Listen to me again, Chat. Losing hurts more than winning. Feel good. You never feel the high. Even with winning the Super Bowl. And I was fortunate enough to be on three teams and my team won. But the losses that I had, I can only imagine losing the Super Bowl. Can you imagine the Super Bowl? Man, they got the thing lined up, Ocho. They like, hey, your yo, think about how many people you done brought there. Oh, all them people y' all don't plan this big celebration. They don't got entertainment. They probably got Snoop Dogg. They got Lil Wayne. They got. I don't know. Hell, maybe they got the Google dolls. I don't know who they got. But you planning a big celebration. How you supposed to. Ocho. How, Joe, how you supposed to go have a good time when we lost the Super Bowl?

[Ocho]

That's hard, bro.

[Joe]

I can't have no good time.

[Ocho]

Me neither.

[Joe]

I ain't gonna even hold you. I'm not going, Mama Libby. Oh, yeah, y' all can go.

[Ocho]

I'm a sore loser like that too, man. I ain't gonna lie.

[Joe]

I'm a sore loser, Joe, but I'm a worse winner. Don't let me win. Don't you let me win. Don't you let me win.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Joe]

The kid. That. The kid. I obviously and very fortunate because the kids were there. They're like, dad, we want to go. We're gonna go. Okay, fine. That. I mean, I don't even know we even have. I think we had a dj, so it was fun for the kid to go. But they already know if daddy lose.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

They not talking. They not saying anything. They already know it. We. Look, I. I don't. I think I only lost one games. One game in my career that my kids actually come regular season, whatever what the case was.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, they already know.

[Joe]

Kids, quiet as church might. Life

[Shay]

ain't. Ain't nothing to talk about.

[Ocho]

What We p. Off

[Shay]

that super bowl lost with the. With the Patriots that year. We lost.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Oo.

[Shay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but that, like, it was like.

[Joe]

It was like a death in the family. Was it? Oh, yeah.

[Shay]

I mean. I mean, it's kind of different because I didn't contribute like I normally used to. So, like.

[Ocho]

But to make it that far, though. But to make it that far, though, and lose.

[Shay]

Yeah. Hey, it was such a. How do I. How do I say this? By still remaining respectful. It was such a. A difference for me, you know, and. And understanding. Okay, this is why they consistently win all the time. Just watching the way they conduct themselves, watching the way they run things from top to bottom, you know, England. England. At the time, it was. It was. It was. It was shocking in a sense. Okay, now I get it. Now I see what the formula is. The formula is in the way they approach things in, you know, day to day basis. It was. It was. Joe. It was crazy, Joe. It was a way. It was a whale oil machine from top to bottom with the Person at the helm not playing. Nathaniel. He don't play, man. He would not play, man. And nobody has to explain it to you, Joe. It's like you walk in the building and something about. It's just something.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shay]

I, I, I, I don't know how to explain it, but everybody and everybody said the same thing. You hear it, but you never understand it until you've been on the team.

[Ocho]

Oh, now, say everybody be on their best behavior.

[Shay]

They're very few that, that were able to conduct themselves how they want to. Gronk was one of them who had a personality. Oh, he did what he wanted.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Shay]

And you know, when Aaron Hernandez was there, he's won because he was that boy. When them two was playing together, he kind of conducted himself and did what he want to. But they were so good because you know what? They know you knew what you was gonna get on the field with them too. So outside of that, everybody else mild mannered, no quiet. You saw, you see. Hey, Randy. Randy got out of hand and said something to the media.

[Joe]

Tell me. I know.

[Shay]

Hey, Joe. He was gone. He coming, he coming off a 23 TD. Season record breaking.

[Joe]

Gone. No, they don't play that. They don't care how great you are.

[Shay]

No matter. Everybody extend 12.

[Joe]

I had Brady. I did a, I forget what I did, but I was doing something for the NFL and I asked Brady, I said, brady, would you get, I said, tom, would you give up two of those wins to win that super bowl that you lost to the first Giants? He said, absolutely, absolutely. Ask him the question. I would love to ask him. Did you get as much enjoyment from winning as the pain that you got from losing? And I love to hear what he has to say because I've heard most people, most say it, that losing leave a stain. Let me ask you a question. It was the losing that drove Jordan.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

It wasn't a win in the championships. It was getting his ass beat by the Celtics. It was getting his ass kicked by the Pistons. That's what drove him. Yeah, LeBron, it was getting his ass kicked. That's what drove him. Go back, look at Joker, look at Djokovic Federal kicking his ass. Nadal kicking his ass. That's what drove him. Not the winning. Sometimes I wonder, man, if, if, if Jordan had won early, would he have still had that hunger and desire if Kobe hadn't airballed some of those shots early in his career, if he had came in and been playing, would that have drove him? Probably not. Sometimes it takes failure.

[Ocho]

Yep.

[Joe]

Sometimes it takes Disappointment in order for you to achieve the ultimate success. That's what. Listen to Jordan talk and listen. Tell him what fuel him. I got tired of losing. Yeah, I got tired of losing to Boston. I got tired of losing to the Pistons. Every time I come up to the Pistons, I get beat. I come up against Boston, I get beat. Said, enough of this. I need to get bigger. I need to get stronger.

[Ocho]

Yeah, man, didn't even take. Had no off season. Went right in the training, next day. Y' all ain't never heard nothing like that after the last game, playoff, you done lost. And you tell your trainer, man, I see you in the morning.

[Shay]

Hey, I'm right back in the lab.

[Joe]

I don't know. Probably if I'd have had some money and I like to travel, I'd went somewhere on the island by my lonesome.

[Ocho]

That's what I'm saying. After that season, boy, you need to decompress a little bit.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

And man, right back at it.

[Joe]

But once, Once the season was over, I tell my homeboy, said, look here, man, y' all got a month to come see me. I'm gonna lock back in.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Once I lock back in that four to six weeks, JoJo. When I lock back in, it's a rap visiting, right? Ain't no more hanging out. Man, I hate. Like, I've always. I've always been a sword loser.

[Ocho]

Yeah, but that's what. That's what. That's why you work hard, though.

[Joe]

Yo, we be playing basketball, man, my brother beat me. I take the basketball and throw the ball in the hog. Pin my grade. He tell Granny that boy threw the basketball in the hog. Boy, my girl might come on. Hey, man, that joker. Hey, that joker beat me. We playing put back. The way you play put back on your football. So I can throw it, I can put it, I can catch it. So right, if you throw it over my head, I gotta throw the ball, putt the ball and kick the ball for wherever it land. If I catch it, I get to take five step forward, Man, I was winning. And I don't know, man, that joker mess, right? He must have had a punt. He might have put it up all 70 yards. Man, I. I went straight to the house and ran to the house and got the knife and bust

[Shay]

you flat.

[Joe]

You flattened the ball. He cheated. I don't care what he say. Somebody Ray guy putting that ball. He ain't put it. I plant that ball, boy, my grandma w be out,

[Ocho]

man.

[Joe]

I couldn't take it. Boy, you can't. You ain't gonna win them all. You can't win all the time.

[Ocho]

Hey, but that losing make you work harder, though.

[Joe]

What?

[Ocho]

Yeah, it had you right back in the lab. I'm talking about really trying to get. Get somewhere.

[Joe]

But the thing is, though, Joe, I couldn't understand. I just looked at him. That's my brother. I should be able to beat him. I didn't look that he was three years older. He was bigger, he was stronger. That ain't cross my mind because I'm doing everything he doing. He go to work in the fields. I go to work. Papa sent him in there to catch a hog. I go. I go catch. You know, he could catch. I just have to hold it by one leg. I got it by one leg. He can hold all my bow line legs. So I think I'm doing what he doing.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Why can't I beat this joker, man? That thing drove me bad. That thing drove me so crazy, man.

[Ocho]

I was like, shh.

[Joe]

So I. I. Cooper, pick your head up, bro. Man, all the grace have had to go through what you going through. All of them.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now, a lot of them didn't win to the left. I mean, hell, Bird didn't lose a single game. He lost one game that year. He lost the magic in the finals, in the NCAA tournament.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

That really. That really put them on. That put the March Madness. That's what put it on the map.

[Shay]

Yeah, on the map, that.

[Joe]

Because guess what you had, you know, in the 70s, a couple of years earlier, you had roots come out, and then you had.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shay]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

You already know where your allegiances were.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If you. Was. If you. This. Use with that. Use with that, Use with this. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yep.

[Joe]

No way around it. And Cooper, pick your head up, bro. You got a promising future ahead of you, bro. Oh, Joe. Joe. There's a sense that Steve Kerr will return to coach the warriors for one more season, which would be his last dance with the franchise, per Tim Kawakami. Joe.

[Ocho]

Well, I don't.

[Joe]

Go ahead. I want to hear what you got to say about this one, Joe.

[Ocho]

I think, obviously, depending on the health of the players, I think he probably. I don't know, he might even shoot his own documentary. Uncle Ocho making this his last. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

And then they.

[Ocho]

Right. They may even be trying to make a big splash this summer, too. You know what I mean? I. I think. I think it's so many different ways that I can see the warriors going at this. For him to announce that is he. He definitely Got some up his sleeve. What you got?

[Joe]

I just like. Unless there's some major moves. Joe, they not winning no championship with this team. Yeah, I mean, and you probably gonna need two, but what assets do they have to give up?

[Shay]

You can't let. You can't let Steph.

[Joe]

No, Steph ain't going nowhere. Steph ain't going nowhere, man.

[Ocho]

You going.

[Joe]

You.

[Ocho]

You guys. You guys, you gonna have to figure something out, huh?

[Joe]

Where they at right now?

[Ocho]

They ain't even to play in, are they?

[Joe]

No.

[Shay]

Damn.

[Joe]

Like Jim Morrison. Playoffs. Playoffs. They better hope that you would.

[Shay]

Right. What's wrong?

[Ocho]

Oh, they end up playing nine. What, did Steph hurt a hamstring again?

[Joe]

I think he dealing with the knee, isn't.

[Ocho]

He must ain't coming back. He been out for a minute.

[Joe]

I think they ramping it up. I think he's gonna come back next week.

[Shay]

I don't know what for. You might well just relay. He might well just relax. Might as well get relaxing and healthy. I mean, you're not.

[Joe]

You're not playing back.

[Ocho]

Well, they. They might get. They might get that 78 spot, but, boy, you gonna. Hey, you got to see OKC or San Antonio. I advise you just lose.

[Joe]

Not beating either one of them and go.

[Ocho]

Go into the.

[Joe]

They're not beating the Lakers. They not beating the Nuggets. No,

[Shay]

no.

[Joe]

I just don't. I just don't see it. And I get it. Hey, look, it was a great run, Steve, but if you coming back, they think you're gonna go out or, you know, be like Phil Jackson, win the championship and then dip.

[Ocho]

They bringing in some. Trust me, they ain't coming back with just that team.

[Joe]

They trying to figure out what they gonna give up, Joe.

[Ocho]

I don't know.

[Joe]

The Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz, what the hell?

[Ocho]

Because they do got. They do got a lot of guys hurt. They got some guys hurt.

[Joe]

Joe, Joe. Let's just say for the sake, really, if you look at it, who did it? Jimmy Butler coming off an acl. Other than stealth, what assets do people really won't. And that's good. That. That you can lure say, okay, I'm gonna give you X, Y and Z. And you let me get Giannis or you let me get some other top flight player.

[Ocho]

Hey, man, listen, I don't know, but I know one thing. They can't come back with the same. With the same team. Like, you know, it's. You know, we talk about the Giannis thing, but I don't know what they had at Milwaukee would be like, oh, yeah, we'll take that. I don't, I don't, I don't know.

[Joe]

But what about, what about Braun? What about Braun going to Golden State? You gotta give up nothing. Just gotta pay it.

[Ocho]

They still. I can say I can see him, I can see him playing with Steph, but I don't know, man Olympics, un. The man building. Ain't he building a $30 million house out there in LA?

[Joe]

Yeah, but I mean, it seemed like everybody thinking that he going to Cleveland. Hey, you can go somewhere for a year in the two and then. And live happily ever after.

[Shay]

Hey, didn't he build one out there in, in Cleveland too?

[Joe]

Yeah, he still got his place in Akron. Yeah, I mean, he.

[Ocho]

I thought he built a bit.

[Joe]

Oh, but he been had that one though.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Shay]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You build something like that in goddamn la, boy, that's. That, that's home.

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah. Got that big. He brought. Actually he brought a place and, and tore the house down because that's what you. I mean, if you want something, I mean, you got to spend 10, 20, $30 million and tear it down because basically you just want the land.

[Ocho]

Damn right.

[Joe]

That's what you want. You want to do what you want there. So that's what people do it. I mean, in Brentwood, you want to stay in Brentwood or you know, you want to go to Malibu and stuff, you gotta, you know, people got shacks that's worth, you know, somebody got. Might have 2, 000 square foot hops.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But it's gonna cost you 25, $30 million to get them up off of it because they own an acre, two acres of land.

[Ocho]

Damn.

[Joe]

Yeah, so that's where they are with that. But I don't, I don't look and say it. I mean, look, Golden State had a great run. They won four championships in six seasons. I believe they would have won another one had Kevin Durant Achilles not blow out.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Toronto. I don't care what anybody says. Toronto not beating Golden State.

[Ocho]

Not that. Yeah.

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