Nightcap Hour 2: Dillon Brooks Gets DROPPED By KD After TRASH TALKING + Jayson Tatum RETURNS to MSG + JJ Reddick CALLS OUT Lakers Team + Max Kellerman CHOOSES Cooper Flagg OVER Luka + Kevin Durant OR Ant Man in Playoffs?

Summary

Nightcap Hour 2: Dillon Brooks Gets DROPPED By KD After TRASH TALKING + Jayson Tatum RETURNS to MSG + JJ Reddick CALLS OUT Lakers Team + Max Kellerman CHOOSES Cooper Flagg OVER Luka + Kevin Durant OR Ant Man in Playoffs?

Podcast: Nightcap
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe ("Unc"), Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson ("Ocho")
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of Nightcap dives into the hottest topics across the NBA, including the fallout from Dillon Brooks’ trash-talking and his on-court embarrassment by Kevin Durant, Jayson Tatum’s highly anticipated return to Madison Square Garden after a devastating injury, internal turmoil and public criticism surrounding the Lakers, the bold take from Max Kellerman preferring rookie phenom Cooper Flagg over Luka Doncic, and a debate on whether Kevin Durant or Anthony Edwards (Ant Man) is the more valuable playoff performer—today. Hosts Shannon Sharpe and Ochocinco provide their trademark raw, insightful, and comedic takes throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dillon Brooks vs. Kevin Durant: "Trash Talk Gone Wrong"

[03:39 – 06:49]

• Set-up: Dillon Brooks, known for his trash talk, faced Durant—and quickly found himself on the wrong end of a highlight.
• Details: Brooks was "immediately" crossed up by KD, "caught reaching," and left stumbling while Durant calmly drained a midrange jumper.
• Sharpe’s Take:

  "Better watch who you talking to sometime. Yeah, Slim Reaper. He ain’t playing no games out there." (Ocho, 04:16)

• Ocho on Brooks’ Antics:

  "Sometimes [trash talk] don’t do nothing but turn some guys up, man." (Ocho, 04:36)

• The Panel’s Consensus: Brooks’ antics, while entertaining, tend to motivate top-tier stars like KD and LeBron rather than intimidate them.
• Memorable Quote:

  "Cameras caught KD said, ‘My worst season is better than your best season.’" (Joe, 05:31)

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2. Jayson Tatum’s Return to Madison Square Garden After Achilles Tear

[07:04 – 13:03]

• Context: Tatum returns to the site of his Achilles injury and expresses some dread, calling the experience "traumatic."
• Sharpe’s Reflection:

  "[Tatum’s] not looking forward to it ... Normally guys, it’s not the specific place, it’s like the first game." (Joe, 07:04)

• Ocho’s Empathy:

  "If you had an injury somewhere and you get back in that environment ... it’s gonna be in the back of his mind, but I think he gonna be just fine." (Ocho, 08:14)

• Physical Game Anticipated: With playoff seeding at stake and the Knicks acquiring Mikal Bridges specifically for matchups against Tatum/Brown, hosts predict a tough, physical contest.
• Personal Anecdote:

  "In ’99, I broke my collarbone in Oakland ... The next time I played in Oakland, I went 96 yards down the middle of the field and scored a touchdown ... It didn’t cross my mind until we started to, like, talk about it.” (Joe, 09:32)

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3. JJ Redick Publicly Calls Out the Lakers’ Effort and Chemistry

[17:47 – 27:01]

• Details: Reddick, frustrated after a blowout loss, openly critiqued Rui Hachimura and Jarred Vanderbilt for not executing, benching Vando 16 seconds into the 2nd quarter.
• Ocho’s Perspective:

  "You got two of your best players out ... you putting [role players] in situations ... offensively that they’re not accustomed to." (Ocho, 18:19)

• Sharpe’s Take on Reddick:

  "He’s a very… serious guy … very meticulous with notes. He should have been a lawyer, because his notes are immaculately wrote." (Joe, 22:00)

• Pressure of the Lakers Stage:

  "Them lights bright over there in L.A., huh, Joe? ... [The players] ain’t been in that Lakers, under them type of lights." (Unnamed Analyst, 25:15)

• DeAndre Ayton Criticism:

  "DeAndre ain’t got the worst hands I’ve ever seen." (Joe, 21:52)

• Larger Point: When stars like LeBron/Luka/AR are out, the limitations of Lakers’ supporting cast are fully exposed.

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4. Max Kellerman’s Hot Take: “Give Me Cooper Flagg Over Luka Right Now”

[34:10 – 38:10]

• Max Kellerman’s Rationale: Values defense and positional versatility. Claims Flagg "can defend 1-5" and has championship-winning potential.

  "I'd rather have Cooper Flagg over Luka ... he can be the best player on a championship team ... The best teenager since LeBron." (Kellerman via Joe, 34:10)

• Ocho Pushback:

  "[Luka] was a hell of a shooter, hell of a scorer, understands angles, high IQ ... you can't take that for granted." (Ocho, 34:46)

• Sharpe’s Test:

  "If I take Cooper Flagg and put him on that Dallas team and I remove Luka … Can he do what Luka did to the Clips? No." (Joe, 35:28)

• Nuanced Discussion on Scorers and Defense: Few top offensive players lock down on both ends; it’s rare and unreasonable to expect.
• Flatt’s Growth:

  "[Cooper] got off to a rocky start … but second half of this season, he's picked it up tremendously. He's been everything they imagined." (Ocho, 37:19)

• Winning Culture:

  "Losing can break you, bro. Imagine … y’all only win eight, nine games out of 82, man. You might lose a little bit of your swag." (Ocho, 38:21)

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5. Durant vs. Ant Man for 2026 Playoff Success

[41:30 – 49:45]

• Brian Windhorst’s Stance: For these playoffs, says Ant Man is the clear pick over Durant; "it’s not close."

  "Durant has won one playoff series since he left Golden State … Ant Man has won four series in the last two years." (Windhorst via Joe, 42:11)

• Ocho on Ant’s Mindset:

  "He let it be known ... I’m out here to kick LeBron ass ... kick KD ass. I’m going at these boys." (Ocho, 42:35)

• Debate Over Durant’s Recent Results:

  "He got swept in [Brooklyn] … got swept in Phoenix ... but look what he was playing with, though." (Joe/Unnamed Analyst, 43:46)

• Neglected Context:

  "What about Devin Booker? Devin Booker any good? ... They got swept. Boston swept him." (Joe, 44:55)

• Aging Stars & Impact:

  "As a player gets older, even if he gives you the same numbers ... they don’t impact the game like they once did." (Joe, 47:49)

• Durant’s Shifting Role:

  "There was once upon a time ... he would block shots, play some defense. … Now … cruise control on offense." (Ocho, 48:03)

• Team-Building Forward:

  "It’s going to get harder for these older guys to win championships. This league is getting younger and younger." (Joe, 51:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Dillon Brooks' Trash Talk Backfiring:

  "That man stumbled twice, he touched earth twice, and he just calmly knocked down the middy." — Ocho (04:16) “You trade for Dillon Brooks with Kevin Durant ... you’re a chalk too, man. ... what Dylan Brooks is doing is more to get himself going than that impact [on KD].” — Joe (06:14)

• On Playing Under Lakers’ Lights:

  "Them lights bright over there in LA, huh, Joe?" — Unnamed Analyst (25:15)

• On Comparing Luka and Cooper Flagg:

  “If I take Cooper Flagg … and put him on that Dallas team and I remove Luka … Can he do what Luka did to the Clips?... No.” — Joe (35:28)

• On Anthony Edwards’ Mentality:

  “He let it be known … I’m out here to kick LeBron ass … KD ass ... You gotta love that, bro.” — Ocho (42:35)

• On Durant at Golden State:

  “He was the finals MVP twice. What you mean? … He was the Finals MVP. If it wasn’t for him, hell, they wouldn’t win.” — Ocho (45:41, 45:56) “He wasn’t no passenger. They need people to stop saying that.” — Joe (46:01)

• On NBA Reality:

  “Losing can break you, bro. … You might lose a little bit of your swag.” — Ocho (38:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dillon Brooks vs. Kevin Durant: 03:39 – 06:49
• Jayson Tatum’s Return to MSG: 07:04 – 13:03
• JJ Reddick Calls Out Lakers: 17:47 – 27:01
• Max Kellerman: Flagg > Luka: 34:10 – 38:10
• Durant vs. Ant Man – Playoff Debate: 41:30 – 49:45

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Tone and Style

The show is a mix of seasoned sports analysis, debate, and banter, with every topic approached with humor, storytelling, and authentic emotion—especially from Shannon Sharpe and Ochocinco. The language is candid, direct, and sometimes comedic, helping make complex NBA debates refreshing and accessible.

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Summary

This episode is an unmissable recap for NBA fans wanting authentic, ex-player perspectives on current league drama. Standout moments include the playful but real takedown of Dillon Brooks’ trash-talking ways, nuanced empathy and insight regarding Tatum and athlete psychology, zero-filter honesty regarding the Lakers’ woes, and a spirited debate on young stars’ upside vs. established legends in this year’s playoff run. Whether the subject is who should be trusted in crunch time, the psychological aftermath of injury, or the shifting sands of NBA superstardom, Shannon and Ocho offer both entertainment and sharp analysis.

Transcript

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[Joe]

Dylan Brooks talk all that trash to kd. Just immediately get his ankle broken. Take a look at this clip, guys.

[Ocho]

This was nasty.

[Joe]

Let's go b.

[Ocho]

Hold on. Did y' all see how when he caught the ball, he looked left like he was going toward the pick and

[Joe]

he rejected real quick.

[Ocho]

Hell, Dylan Brooks didn't know what the hell was going on. That man stumbled twice, he touched earth twice, and he just calmly knocked down the middy. Hey man, better watch who you talking to sometime. Yeah, Slim Reaper. He ain't playing no games out there. I like to see when dudes do, but I like to see when dudes talk stuff. I like watching Dylan Brooks playing, his antics, him being emotional. Yeah. But hey man, sometimes they don't do number turn some guys up, bro. It turns some cats up, man. To the point. Yeah, after the game KD said that, you know, Dylan Brooks ain't got no effect on his game. That's a lie that man. Hey, he he he he made you going in that bag, you know, somebody go to talking to you. It'll make you pull out what you got.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Oh, yeah. And the funny thing about it, Dylan Brooks, he go with everybody, especially the better players. When he competing against, you know, the KDS or the LeBrons, he gonna antagonize you. He gonna get in your ear a little bit, try to throw you.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, but, but them great players, they don't fault, they don't bother. That don't bother them. That might bother lesser tier players. You don't play at that level. You think Dylan Brooks is the first guy to try to get up.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I mean, think about LeBron. He had, how he had to deal with a blowing all in his ear doing all this foolishness.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

These guys used to it. Cameras called Katie said, my worst season is better than your best season.

[Ocho]

Hey, it's some truth in that.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, it's levels to everything, Joe. But when you had that competing and you a talker, Dylan Brooks always been none of that. Yeah, he always been one. That gonna antagonize you. You don't get this work. I don't care what your seasons look like, whether it's better than my, whether it's better than my, my best or not. I'm gonna talk this.

[Ocho]

And I think that, I think that they got by them getting traded for one another pretty much. I think that's kind of, you know, it may be a little something there.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Little bad blood joke

[Joe]

boy. You trade four Dylan Brooks with Kevin Durant, as much as you talk, you ain't bothered him D line with the JoJo, you know who the bother. Hey, D.B. come here. No, I ain't talking to you. I'm talking to him. I'm talking safety. You're a chalk too, man. Look, I, I, I love it. You know, that's, that's what Dylan Brooks is doing is more to get him going himself going than that impact. Because when you're dealing with those level of guys, right, it ain't got nothing

[Ocho]

to do with them. Right. But if they, if they end up, if they end up meeting the playoffs, it's gonna be some smoke. It's gonna be some smoke. Trust me.

[Joe]

Just under a year after tearing his right Achilles tenant in Madison Square Garden, Jason Tatum will make his return Thursday when he and the Celtics take on the Knicks. Tatum said he's not exactly looking forward to it. Tatum said, I mean, yeah, I thought about it. I'm not like thrilled to go back to and play there. The last time I played there, obviously it was traumatic experience for me. Obviously, I Knew at some point I would have to get over that hurdle and play there again. So it's going to have to be this Thursday. But it's not like I'm thrilled about it, but it's part of it. I've decided to come back and play. So I'm not necessarily skipping certain games. I can't play back to back right now, but I decided to come back and play, so it's just another game on the schedule. Joe, are you concerned about those type of comments? Normally, guys, like, man, I was a little jittery to go back out there the first game back because I am coming back when many thought I was going to miss this regular season. But he's like, he's not looking up. It's a specific place. Normally, guys, it's not the specific place. It's like the first game. Now, if the first game was back, then, his first game back. Joke.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right.

[Joe]

But now you've been playing two, three weeks, and so I'm gonna get your point.

[Ocho]

I don't think, I think he gonna be all right, man. He's been playing great basketball since he's been back, especially over the past, what, maybe five or six games or so. But yes, it's natural. If you had an injury somewhere and you get back in that environment or in that same place that he's gonna think about it. Uncle Ocho, you know what I mean? Playing in Madison Square Garden, thinking like, damn, last time I was here, you know, it's right here in this particular spot where I was laying at when I tore my Achilles. It's gonna be in the back of his mind, but I think he gonna be just fine. I think he's gonna be just fine. He looks great from, from his movement and how he's been playing. He's been shooting the three ball better, getting to the rack. I, I, I don't think, I don't think. I, I think he'd be all right.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, I think he'll be, hey, hey, I ain't, I ain't never been injured, so it's hard for me to say. Woody would be thinking about, obviously, if you had an injury and you're going back to the place, what injury actually happened. I think it's in the back of your mind, but being a competitor, you really can't let it, really can't let it get in the way.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Are you actually planning, performing, you know, at the highest level, obviously you want to go out there and do what you do, so. I, I, I don't know. Joe, Joe, Joe, you and that y' all be better to. It kind of, kind of assessed that.

[Joe]

Now that he's talking about it, I was like. And I, it never dawned on me. Oo I, in 99, I broke my collarbone in Oakland. The next time I played in Oakland, I went 96 yards down the middle of the field and scored a touchdown against the 2000 for the Ravens. That was my first time back there. It didn't dawn on me until now.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, okay, okay.

[Joe]

Didn't even dawn on me that, like, man, this is where I broke my collarbone last time I was here. It, I, I, it didn't cross my mind until we started to, like, he started like, I tore my Achilles in, in, in Madison Square Garden, and I'm coming back. Like I said. Now, maybe I, it would have been at the forefront of my mind if my first game back would have been in Oakland, but because so much time has passed. Had passed, I'm just happy to go back to Oakland. Hey, I, I look and I, and I agree with you, Joe. I think the mere fact that he's been there for three weeks and he's gotten better and better and better and better. I, I don't, I don't think he has anything. I don't, Me personally, I don't think he has anything to worry about. I think that, that, that that tendon is, is as strong as it's going to be.

[Ocho]

But I do think, you know, considering that, that, that, that the Celtics are playing the Knicks, that's gonna be a physical, physical game, Uncle Ocho, you know, it's gonna be a playoff game. See them big wings that they got? That's why, that's why the kn. That's why the Knicks went out and got Bridges because of what to play against Tatum and Brown. So it's probably, it's probably going to be probably one of the most physical games he's going to play since his return. If we just keeping it 100. I mean, because it ain't but a couple games left. Everybody's still kind of jockeying for position, you know what I mean? So it's going to be, it's going to be pretty intense.

[Joe]

It. It is. And man, when you, you think about it, Joe, I didn't realize until, like, seeing, like, Jason Tatum said, Jason Tatum,

[Ocho]

like, man, that boy, tall man

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

here,

[Joe]

I was thinking all this damn time, he like 6, 8. Nah, that both are like 16.

[Ocho]

That's the advantage, and that's the advantage that they have because you can play Tatum at the four and have, have, have your five out there. Obviously, when they had poor Zingus or Al Horford, you know, they would play him at the 4 and play one of those guys at the 5. But they got a.

[Joe]

They.

[Ocho]

I don't say, I won't say. A totally different team, but they got different type of bigs now. You know, obviously they got Vusovic. You can shoot the three, he can spread the floor. Yeah, but the other kid, I can't. What's his name? I like him. Defender, rebounder, rim runner, lob threat. Gonna play hard. And that's what they've been missing. That's what, that's what the Celtics been missing. It's gonna be a good game tomorrow.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's gonna be. Yeah, it's gonna be tough because you know what? And you can't take anything away, you know, out of the matchup because I think the Celtics beat the Knicks during the regular season last year and damn the next. Damn this couple.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they did. They could, they had number a big body brother.

[Joe]

Yeah. They have no answer, no matter how. Think about it. No matter how big of a lead they had, Nick would just, just methodically just track them down.

[Ocho]

Yep. Because even the game Tatum got hurt, I thought he was playing great, but hell, they were still losing.

[Joe]

Unbelievable.

[Ocho]

They were losing when he, when, when he got hurt.

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[Joe]

night, JJ Reddick crawled out the entire team on Ruid. He wasn't doing his job. I took his ass out. He didn't say ass out on Vando. It was a confluence of things he did wrong. Damn. Oh, Aiden, he can't catch the ball. Reddick also said. Also got into the. On the sideline with Vando ready. Called timeout just 16 seconds into the second quarter to sub Vando out for the game. Telling Dalton connect to check in in his place. Vandal walked over and. And let him hear it. Joe, are the cracks starting to show with the.

[Ocho]

Well, I don't want to say the cracks are starting to show, man. You gotta look at it from this standpoint. I mean, damn, you got two of your best players out, you know, who, who, who makes the game easier for everybody else. Now, if those guys are out and you putting Van do and these guys in advantageous situations to where now they gotta do. They gotta do stuff offensively that they're not accustomed to doing or, you know, basically playing both ends of the court, like, yeah, it's gonna be some mishaps. It's gonna be some, you know, some grunt. Some players grunt disgruntled because of, you know, there's not, There's. There's not many opportunity, man. These ain't guys who you just throw the ball to and they can go get you a bucket. They play great off of your great players. You know what I mean? So now that Luca and AR is out I mean, hell, Braun didn't play Damn Ocho. Which I. What y'.

[Commercial Narrator]

All.

[Ocho]

What y' all want us to do? What y' all want me to do?

[Joe]

And that's what Vander said. Hold on. No Braun, no Ar, no Luca. And then you hadn't played Dalton Connect since Hammer was a hatchet. And now all of a sudden, you gonna. 16 seconds. I just got in and we play. I read on the court.

[Ocho]

And we playing against okc, the best team in the damn league. They just beat us by 50 the other day.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey.

[Joe]

And now they came back and got us about 37. Go ahead.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I say coach got to know, man. He got to know, honestly. Oh, know your personnel, Joe.

[Joe]

No, but know your person.

[Ocho]

Know your personnel.

[Joe]

You too. Honest. He can't. Yeah. Because he ain't lie. DeAndre ain't got the worst hands I've ever seen.

[Ocho]

You know what? I. I noticed that too, man. Cause I'm like, he. He do be missing a lot of, you know, them look. Yeah, but, man, you. You. I mean, that's. I don't think that was a. Well, I think for. For jj, it was a situation to where he could make a point. You know what I mean? Like, listen, I'm gonna put my foot down. We gonna get our ass kicked tonight, but I'm gonna chew off in these dudes ass tonight.

[Joe]

But that just goes to show you. Look how those guys look. Look how Those guys look. OkC look when Shay and Jalen Williams weren't playing. Look how they look now. Look how Lakers players look when they big guns no play. Look at other teams when their big guns don't play. How they look.

[Ocho]

Well, damn.

[Joe]

And y' all talk about the Lakers. Oh, the Lakers. Loaded with what? With what? With what they got. How many? How many, Joe, be honest. How many quality minutes are those guys getting up there on other continuing teams?

[Ocho]

None. I mean, you. I mean, for the Lakers, you just got too many key guys out. I mean, look, Marcus Smart out with Luke LeBron. I mean, damn, what you expect? It's.

[Joe]

I. I just. I just expect. Joe, if I throw you the ball, you to catch it. That's all I want you to do it. Don't let. And don't let it go out of bounds. The man said it was a confluence of things that he did wrong. Well, damn.

[Ocho]

Other than.

[Joe]

Other than having Jersey took then and chuck it in the game, that's the only thing he seemingly did right. That was. That was.

[Ocho]

I mean, with them you playing, you arguably playing against the best defensive team in the league, man, these dudes, ain't they stingy? They ain't giving up nothing. Okay.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

See, no matter who hurt.

[Joe]

Well, okay, I can understand that. But here's the thing, Joe. Like you said, you was in the right spot. Even I'm gonna be where I supposed to be. So we cut the tape on. I'm where I'm supposed to be.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So I'm. I can't let who we playing dictate how I play. Ocho. I will be where I supposed to be. I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do. It seemingly, and I could be wrong, I could be totally off base. But JJ wasn't pleased. Jj like, because the one thing about the little while that I did work with him, he's a very, very serious guy. And he ain't got no problem. He gonna tell you. Nah, that ain't what happened. Nope. He very meticulous with notes. I mean, he come out there and he know, like, he should have. He should have been a lawyer because his notes are immaculately wrote. Like, yes, yes. He like. He write the dissertation. Absolutely. I'm like, well, damn. My. My. My nose don't look nothing like this. Hell, my nose. Probably only I can read it. Somebody get his notes. They're gonna be able to read everything because it's so. I mean, to the T. To the T.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. He got notes like that. So I'm. I. I'm just concerned about. Sometimes, like I said, the coach say, like my coach told me one time, say, sean, sometimes I gotta lie to him. Sometimes I gotta tell them they good when they're not. Sometimes I gotta tell them they're doing a good job when they're not.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, I mean, think. Think about it, though. Think about it. I think, I think with the Lakers getting embarrassed last night at home, fellas, I think that's really what said JJ Off. You know, you put. You making. You making, you know, put brush that under the rug on the road. But when you at home in front of those Lakers, that Laker crowd.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You got to you regardless of who, just play hard.

[Joe]

Just play hard. Joe. Joe, they quit. Joe, you. Do you hold on. At one point in time, the score was 43. It was 42. 42. I look back up the score. 63, 47.

[Ocho]

That sound about right?

[Joe]

That's no. 6. Yeah. Like 69.47. But anyway, I think they went on like a 20. They went on like a 23. A 25. 5 or 27.5 run.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe]

The score was 42, 42. And then they go on the 27. They go on like a 25.5 or 27.5, man.

[Ocho]

But listen, Lakers depleted the OKC Thunder. They're healthy. They're fully healthy. They ready for the postseason. Uncle Ocho, they ain't playing no games.

[Joe]

Joe, can I just get you to play hard? Can I get you to be where you're supposed to be if I throw you the ball, catch it, even if you missed the shot? But Joe, if I throw you the ball and it goes out of bounds, well, then what I'm supposed to do if you're not where you're supposed to be on defense, if we got, if we, if we calling for a pick at the top. What, bro, why I gotta keep, go set the pig? Why I gotta keep doing that? Because why gotta keep saying get over, get over.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Them lights bright over there in la, huh, Joe?

[Joe]

And all the joke, all the jokers that they're playing, they've been in NBA a while. Rui's been in the league far too long.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

They've been in the NBA for a while. They ain't been in that Lakers under them type of lights and that type of pressure for a while. It's a difference. Your big guns out, your big guns not playing.

[Joe]

Rui has been in those situations. Rui was on the team that went to the Western Conference finals against Denver. Rui was in the situation when they played, when they were on the road. And he hit big shot after big shot. Joe, you remember he's hitting big shot at the big shot against Memphis. He and AR damn near single handedly gave him that game. Cause hey, LeBron like, nope, keep, he kept beating them, kept feeding them. And then LeBron got him, got him back. Then when they got back to, got back to LA Bronson, y' all done? Yeah, yeah, it's over. It's over for y'. All. And he had that, that monster game the last game. But I, I, I think and that's why I couldn't cope. That's because you got a lot.

[Ocho]

That's because they expecting, they was expecting too much from Aiden last night. Just keep it 100.

[Joe]

I mean from us, from a number one overall draft pick that's seven foot tall, that's in a contract year. I'm expecting too much.

[Ocho]

Yeah, because the guys who he typically play off of, hell, they ain't out here tonight. I ain't like Aiden can get the rebound and bring it up like a point. He got the, you know what I mean?

[Joe]

Like, but I Gave him the ball, Joe. He gave it back to him.

[Ocho]

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying he been playing like this, Unc, is what I'm saying. I'm saying. But the fact that you've had Ar, Luca and Braun out there, hell, that go by the wayside. But now that they ain't out there, now it's very glaring because it's magnified.

[Joe]

Yeah, Everything gets magnified when those guys are not there to cover.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So.

[Ocho]

So. So now. Yeah, you gonna use him as a scapegoat? Yeah, he.

[Joe]

He. He say he's.

[Ocho]

He's sick of age and stuff.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah. He said, ak, catch the ball. And. And that's how it is sometimes. I mean, you got. Been playing like poop, but you had guys to pick the poop up.

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

Now when there's nobody there to pick it up or cover it up, you're like, well, damn, is everybody just gonna let their dog just go out here? Because I'd be walking up like, bro, it makes me mad. The guy.

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Joe]

You pick the poop up, put it in the bag, and then throw the bag on the ground. You should have just left it down there. I mean, how so, Joe? How sorry do. Chad, how sorry do you have to be? You pick up behind your dog, and then instead of carrying it and putting in the trash can at your home, you throw the bag on the ground with the poop in it.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's why I walk my dog at night. I don't take that dump. We're gonna leave. Let's go.

[Joe]

Come on, Joe. Joe.

[Ocho]

See?

[Joe]

Joe, get some bags to pick it up. Come on, Joe. Don't be that guy.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Joe]

Oh, my goodness.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey.

[Ocho]

That's why I walk my dog at night, Ocho.

[Joe]

Hey.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Oh, you. Oh, you don't pick up. You don't pick up.

[Ocho]

I ain't got no bag or nothing, man. We just out there get the bag.

[Joe]

Yo, Joe, Come on, Joe.

[Ocho]

Man, that man be dropping some lows. You know, the master you.

[Joe]

Damn. No.

[Ocho]

You done that.

[Joe]

I. I've had two. I've had two bull masters. I got a boreble. I got a Nikita. Yes. I got the giant size bag. And some of them. Sometimes it'd be like. Like a dairy queen cone, bro. Get up. Hey, you know, if, you know, for a dog to go in front of you, that means he trusts you, because that's.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Vulnerable. That's why. That's why I'm looking at you people like, well, why the dog looking at me? Cause he's like, okay, you got me, right? Cause you know I'm in the. Hey, hey, just like if you on the toilet, somebody come beat the brakes off, man. That's why you lock the door, man. You don't want somebody to run down on your own show, man. Don't, don't. Hey, just let me put my clothes.

[Ocho]

Hey. And don't let it be running too, boy. I'm damn sure ain't picking it up. I'm sorry.

[Joe]

Yeah. Hey.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

No, sir.

[Joe]

Hey, hey. I remember my brother. My grandma beat my brother. Had my brother did something. My brother have no shirt on. You gonna beat me like this? You damn right shut down on him. He thought he gonna put it. He thought he granny gonna let him put that T shirt on. And you know my granny had to tell. Yeah, I had to shut down on that boy ass. Yeah, well, my grandma was a snitch. That's where I got it from, guys. My grandma.

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Nah, I'm just kidding.

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[Joe]

Max Kellerman says that he would rather have Cooper Flag over Lucha Luka Doncic coming into the NBA. I would rather have Cooper flag over Luca. I like his style of play. I like. Luca is better playmaker, but Luca isn't a defender. Cooper is excellent. Cooper flag is one of these actual that can defend one through five level players. He's an athletic and he has a style I like which can lead to winning in a championship. He can be the best player on the championship team. I would say he's the best teenager since LeBron. Well, that's not really, that's not really going out on the limb because his

[Ocho]

numbers, I mean, his numbers was better his rookie year than LeBron's. But I don't, Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm a Cooper Flag fan. I, I, I like him. I like everything about him. He's been thrust into a situation, but, man, do y', all, I don't know. A lot of people don't remember when Luca first came into the league, bro, he probably was about £20 slimmer, you know what I mean? He used to go through that lane and dunk that ball, you know what I mean? He, he, he, he a hell of a shooter, a hell of a scorer. Obviously he understands angles, he has a high IQ for the game. But you can't take, you can't take that for granted, man. He ain't like, ain't like he's six, two, six three out here. Now.

[Joe]

Let me ask you a question. If I take Cooper flag and I take and I take Cooper flag and I put him on that Dallas team and I remove Luca. Can he do what Luca did with doing to the cliffs? No, no, with, with Kawhi PG and all those defenders. See, I, I think sometimes people, you lose sight of just how great Luca is. And I get it. He's not, he's not the, and most of the time guys, because I think when we get guys that can score a bunch of points, you get a guy like a Kobe, you Get Jordan, you get LeBron. That's averaging 27, 28. And you like, man, look at. They lock it down on both ends more times than not. Guys that could score a lot of points didn't play great defense.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Right.

[Joe]

It takes too much out of you to. To. Okay, I'm gonna go give you this work on one end. All of a sudden, I'm gonna sit in the chair and try to do what I do for 30, 36 to 40 minutes.

[Ocho]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't known for being a defensive player. Coming up, Luca coming into the league like, he never was known to be a stopper.

[Joe]

What European player is known for defense?

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

They might block some shots, aka AK47. Andre Korolinko would block some shots. But he wasn't sitting on that chair. I mean, to sit in that chair, you. You tell him. You take it for granted. But look, I'm not saying Cooper flag. Like I said, I saw Cooper flag and I saw him coming out of Maine. But what I was impressed was when I saw them joker scrimmage against the men's national team that was taking their ass to Paris and try to get that gold medal and what he was doing to those guys, I said, oh, yeah, he'll have no problem.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Joe]

That's. That's 12 or however many players we send over there. That's what we. That's our best we got.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he's a.

[Joe]

That's Bam. That's Bam.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he's a. Oh, yeah, he adjusted. Well, he probably. He got off to a rocky start to start his rookie year, but you talking about the second half of this season. Yeah, he's picked it up tremendously.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

He's been balling.

[Ocho]

Yeah. He's been everything. He's been everything they imagine. Yeah.

[Joe]

And more. But he had to grow up.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe]

Because like you said, he tired of losing. And I ain't losing. No, I ain't losing. High school ain't losing but a handful of games in college, and here we go. I've lost more games on a damn week than I lost my whole college career. Man. Losing suck, man.

[Ocho]

Hey, the NBA, different, bro. It's a reality.

[Joe]

And you can think about it. Even you can win. Think about this. I mean, going 62 and 20. 20 lost 20 damn games. These guys, some of these guys lose more games than in. In.

[Ocho]

In.

[Joe]

In an NBA season than they lost all the high school and all the college. Yeah.

[Ocho]

And you don't know how a guy gonna be able to deal with that Uncle Ocho, you know what I mean?

[Joe]

That.

[Ocho]

That losing can break you, bro. It'll make you. It'll make you lose sight of where you at, how you got to where you at. You know what I mean? Like, imagine. Imagine being on a team, bro, and y' all only win eight, nine games out of 82, man. You gonna. You might lose a little bit of your swag. You know what I mean? Come and tell you. I know I always bring this up, talking about when I first came here to Atlanta, we only won 29 games, man. It's hard to enjoy outside the outside of basketball.

[Joe]

You can't.

[Ocho]

You don't want to go nowhere. You don't want to see nobody.

[Joe]

No.

[Ocho]

You don't want to hang out. You know what I mean? That's. Hey, that's tough. Yeah.

[Joe]

Excellent. Because guess what. Guess what happened when they see you. Hell, if you was home. That's why y' all win more games. Yes. What. Not in the club. Hey, that's what you get. I didn't. I didn't go out that much. I mean, we were losing. Like. That's why y' all losing. Hell, y' all in here. I'm like, well, damn, man. Hey, we ain't supposed to have no life. I said, you know what? I said, you know what? You're right. Let me stay my living. We lose. Let me stay my black asshole. Let me take my ass off,

[Ocho]

right? I swear, boy.

[Joe]

Hey, go ahead, Ocho. What you want to say?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Not sure. Hey, I only had one winning season. 11 years.

[Ocho]

Damn.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I ain't had no guy. Hey, I ain't had no choice, Joe.

[Joe]

So you going out regardless.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, I got no. I know. I didn't really go nowhere. I'm just. I'm just saying, you know, I show my face, but I didn't allow it to affect me. And what I had.

[Ocho]

I'm saying. Was it something to do in Cincinnati? Ocho, it's something to do in.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, but Cincinnati, one of the greatest cities of all time in comparison to Atlanta. Not Atlanta. And in Houston.

[Ocho]

Yeah. You saying it can compete with Atlanta and Houston?

[Joe]

Yes. No, that's not what he's saying, Joe.

[Ocho]

He lying, ain't it? She don't like me.

[Joe]

Yeah, you can't say lying. Telling the story.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, Joe, Listen to them.

[Joe]

No, it's not.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, Joe. Joe. It's a hidden gem that most people don't know about unless you. Unless you. You from there or you play there. You wouldn't understand.

[Joe]

ISO. Speed say he from Cincinnati, and you say the women terrible. Now, that's what he's saying. He from there.

[Ocho]

Y' all excuse me for a minute.

[Joe]

You go against you.

[Ocho]

You see? You see my glass? I know y' all probably ain't got nothing in front of y'. All. Uncle look like he on the road somewhere.

[Joe]

Yeah, I'm on the road. I'm on the road, but I'll be back. I'll be back soon. I'll be. Hey, I'll be. I'll be in the air.

[Ocho]

Hey, your girl, your girl, she seen my lady at the gym and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Shelly and she. Yeah, make sure Joe get these glasses. And I said, it's what? What better time for me to put on my toasty. I know y' all ain't got nothing

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

going on, but what you. What you drinking, Joe?

[Joe]

Hey, Joe, Joe, let me tell you how you do take it. Hey, get you some. I put. Put some ginger ale in there. I don't know if you've ever had it with ginger ale.

[Ocho]

Yeah, it's.

[Joe]

It's real nice, Joe.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, you know we only to use ginger ale when we sick.

[Joe]

My grandma said get some ginger ale. Really? You do know I'm, like, running 104 fever, you know? Yeah, she got everything going on. Hey, but you know the movie, when you get sick, you just need to go, boo boo. What boo boo got to do with me sick and my stomach can't hurt. Go boo boo. Oh, what is that, Granny? Yeah, okay, Brian or Joe, let me know. And Ocho, let me know what you think about this? Brian Windhorse said he would take Ant man over KD for the playoffs. And it's not close to. We're not talking historically. We're talking for the 20, 26 playoffs. I think Ant Man, I don't even think it's a debate. Durant has won one playoff series since he left Golden State. Ant man has won four series in the last two years.

[Ocho]

Joe boy. That's the argument, okay?

[Joe]

And it's closer than you think it. Like he said, we're not talking about historically. We're talking about right now. He says Kevin Durant has won one playoff series.

[Ocho]

Yeah, one I like. And I. I'm. Hey, listen, man, I love both of those guys game. I think the way Ant man competes, you know, he let it be known. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm out here to kick LeBron ass. I'm out here to kick KD ass. I'm out here. I'm going at these boys. Y' all hear what he told Obama?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Telling about Y' all better. Y' all better watch out. Yeah, I'm. I'm a bad boy, huh?

[Joe]

Man, you got.

[Ocho]

Hey, you. You gotta love that, bro. You gotta love it. And not only that, he goes out there and backs it up. He plays hard defensively, he guards, and then he can take over a game. I. I can see with Brian, I can see where he's at on this.

[Joe]

Yeah. It's not as far fetched as people think. I think the thing is, is that people look at it historically and they look at the time of Kevin Durant at Golden State, and KD is a bad boy, don't get me wrong. But until there's this perception, be it true or imagine, that KD in the postseason hasn't enjoyed a level of success outside of Golden State, be it true or imagined, but the facts line up.

[Ocho]

I think he got.

[Joe]

He got. Remember, he got swept his last. He got swept in. In. In the Nets. The Nets got swept by Boston. Yeah, he got. He got swept in Phoenix.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hey, look what he was playing with, though. That's not even.

[Joe]

See, that's. You see, we did. When have they ever said that about LeBron? Do they ever say, look what LeBron was playing with. Yo, what they say.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

But we, we talk, we talk about. We talk about. We talk about ANT man and kd.

[Joe]

Yes, but look at what ANT man got.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Wait, look what. What ANT man got.

[Joe]

Yes. You do realize that. That KD got swept with Kyrie. Was Kyrie any good?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

What about Devin Booker? Devin Booker any good?

[Ocho]

Okay, let me get right.

[Joe]

Joe. I'm just asking. I don't know. Joe. Joe, the official basketball I. Official. So we gotta have somebody that. That's. That's great and everything. You, the soccer guy. That's. You. Oo. Come to soccer. Yeah, basketball. We go to Joe. Joe is Kyrie.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he's some good. Y' all know he's some good in Brooklyn.

[Joe]

They got swept. Boston swept him. Is Devin Booker.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir. You talking all NBA players. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I think. I think the most disheartening thing when it comes to fans and people who speak on the game of basketball especially.

[Joe]

No, stop it. No, I'm not. I'm still going to finish your point, but I just saw something coming with

[Ocho]

Katie, dealing with Katie, is that, yeah, they lost to the warriors and then he went and joined them.

[Joe]

That's the same thing.

[Ocho]

I think people have a hard time respecting that.

[Joe]

Although he was up 3:1.

[Ocho]

Yeah, 3:1. He was up 3:1. You supposed to put them boys away. But although he. He didn't go to the warriors and piggyback, I mean, hell, he still let him. He was the MVP of them two champions.

[Joe]

He was the finals MVP twice. What you mean? Yeah, yeah, he was the.

[Ocho]

He was the Finals mvp. If it wasn't for him, hell, they wouldn't win.

[Joe]

No, he wasn't no passenger. They need people to stop saying that. He was a passenger. Kevin Durant was not no damn passenger.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, I ain't gonna lie. Braun was at his apex then, boy. Hey, listen, that's the only player you probably could have went and got that that was gonna get you.

[Joe]

That was the only one. And that's why they went, because he was giving him. There's no way. There's no way. That team, that 73.9team, after LeBron walked them down 3:1, they were psychologically done. Kyrie was at his apex. They had no answer. They had no answer for Kyrie. They had no answer for LeBron. It was over. They had to go get a neutralizer, and Kevin Durant was it. Now, y' all said Kyrie was hurt, and Jake.

[Ocho]

No, no, no.

[Joe]

James Harden was gone. Kyrie was not hurt when they got swept by the. By the. The. Yeah, the Celtics. Don't do that. Now, Kevin Durant is great. He's historically great, but the facts of the matter is the facts of the matter. It's kind of like y' all have revisionist history and y' all try to run every. Blend everything together. Don't do that. They got swept. Boston swept them. Then he went to. He went to Phoenix. Phoenix.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Just saying.

[Joe]

So it's not as far out of the. It's not out of the. The realm of possibility. I can see why Brian Windhorst said what he said, Man. And you wouldn't be wrong if you.

[Ocho]

Right now.

[Joe]

If you. Excuse me. If you.

[Ocho]

Yeah, right now. It's a lot of people who would take Ant man over KD right now.

[Joe]

Yeah. I just said, you know what? Joe and I could be wrong.

[Ocho]

And.

[Joe]

And I want to. Want you to let me know what you think. It seems like, as a player gets older, even though if he gives you the same numbers that he once gave you, they don't impact the game like they once did. The numbers don't.

[Ocho]

I think. Although kd, he's forever gonna be an efficient scorer. I mean, he makes it look easy. But there was once upon a time where. I ain't saying he was, you know, all defensive player, but, you know, he. He was blocking shots he, he would play some defense. Okay. Och, I mean hell, he's seven foot, you know what I mean?

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

And I just.

[Joe]

Especially Golden State. He was doing a lot of Golden State.

[Ocho]

He was. I think now, you know, he just got that thing cruise control on offensive where you know what I'm getting out 25 to 28 a night. You know, I'm gonna give you a few rebounds, few dimes, but for the most part, I mean at 37 years old, he, he'll bucket still.

[Joe]

Yeah, he still give you 20, 23, 24 points a night. 2025 points a night. And he's still shooting in, in, in the 50s.

[Ocho]

He just need. So you need them young. He need them young bucks to do the bulk of the, the heavy lifting. Meaning defensively, you know, rebounding.

[Joe]

I mean that his thing, his thing was. And he goes and State. He was a tremendous help defender. Like you said, he was seven foot tall. I mean what seven foot do, you know, be sitting in a chair and he's not, he's not Elijah1. That's not what. He's not a David. I mean, you know, he's not that type of defender. Defender. He's just not. But he did what they asked him to do. He did very well. But this notion that Kevin Durant. Oh, he went to Golden State and kicked. No, he didn't kick. Hey, had he not gone to Golden State, they not winning no two more championships. They're not winning those back. They're not winning those back to back championship in 17, 18. That ain't happening. And if he doesn't get hurt, they don't win back to back. They win three peat.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't care what people say. Toronto not beating them. Not if KBD healthy.

[Ocho]

Oh, serious. It's hard when you. Cause offensively he just had too much firepower. You couldn't double nobody. You just kind of had to live with it because look, I played against them guys in the playoff series when I was in Utah, the Warriors and the first championship run. We played against them in the second round.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Boy, we're getting to it.

[Joe]

Joe. They smoked.

[Ocho]

What you mean like a blunt?

[Joe]

Huh? Man, they was on that pack. Listen, hold on.

[Ocho]

They swept they first round series. So they had been waiting 10 days. We won seven games against the Clippers and we won game seven. We had one day of rest and then we had to play the man they toe off with us. It wasn't nothing we can do with them boys. I know.

[Joe]

Look, I, I just, I, I think once KD a point guard. I think that's what they're missing this year. And guess what? It's going to get harder and harder for these older guys to win championship. Joe, this league is getting younger and younger. These guys are good.

[Ocho]

That's why I think these dudes gonna some way somehow I don't know how I think Braun, Katie or Giannis, I don't know how two of them gonna end up on the same team. Two of them gonna end up on the same team. You watch what I tell you.

[Joe]

Yeah. They might need to do that to combat OKC and and San Antonio.

[Ocho]

What? Cause OKC ain't going nowhere no time soon, partner.

[Podcast Host]

None.

[Joe]

Yeah 0. What's up cousin?

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