Nightcap Hour 2: Jalen Duren TRADE RUMORS Heating Up + Hawks DECLINE Jonathan Kuminga’s $24.3M Option + Draymond TURNS DOWN $27.7M Option for Potential LeBron MOVE + Ben Simmons EYEING COMEBACK

Summary

Nightcap Hour 2: Jalen Duren TRADE RUMORS Heating Up + Hawks DECLINE Jonathan Kuminga’s $24.3M Option + Draymond TURNS DOWN $27.7M Option for Potential LeBron MOVE + Ben Simmons EYEING COMEBACK

Podcast: Nightcap
Hosts: Shannon Sharpe ("Unc"), Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson ("Ocho"), Joe Johnson
Date: June 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This fast-paced, candid hour of "Nightcap" dives deep into the hottest NBA free agency rumors and big headlines, featuring debates between Shannon, Ocho, and Joe Johnson. The crew delivers their trademark unfiltered takes with stories, player perspectives, and hard truths on money, legacy, expectations, and whether some NBA careers can (or should) be resurrected.

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1. Jalen Duren Trade Rumors & Contract Negotiations (02:59–15:08)

• Story: Jalen Duren, the Detroit Pistons’ 22-year-old center and restricted free agent, is at the center of sign-and-trade rumors involving the Sacramento Kings and potentially the Lakers. Negotiations have stalled, reportedly due to a “sizable distance” between Duren’s camp and the Pistons’ valuation.
• Trade Scenarios:
  • Sacramento may offer Domantas Sabonis.
  • Lakers, where Luka Dončić is a known Duren fan, might leverage draft capital.

Key Points:

• The Pistons want to retain Duren but nowhere near a supermax deal.
• Duren wants a $290M max (due to All-NBA), but Detroit sees his impact as closer to $180M/4 years.

Quotes:

• “You ain’t getting that, Ocho... He can’t get the fifth year. He can only get a four year – once you leave, you lose that supermax.” – Host (04:25)
• “That playoff run just didn’t help him at all. You feel me?” – Joe (05:17)
• “I ain’t gonna pay you that just to be a roll guy... I need a midi. I need some threes or something.” – Host (06:18)
• The trio agree Detroit will match reasonable offers but won’t pay above their value, and that postseason performance affects these decisions.

Memorable Moments:

• Shannon likens paying unfinished stars to paying contractors before the job is done: “When somebody building your house... you finish paying them before they done? Hell no.” (06:43)

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2. NBA Contracts, Inflation, and 'Timing' (13:22–14:57)

• The team reflects on how NBA/NFL contracts have inflated dramatically, using the growth of franchise values and modern player salaries as an example.

Quotes:

• “Timing is everything, fellas. Especially in the NBA.” – Joe (12:47)
• “You used to go buy a franchise for $50 million. Now it’s about to be $10 billion.” – Host (14:49)
• The escalation from $7M WNBA teams to $300–400M, and the UFC’s leap from $2M to $7B.

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3. Hawks Decline Jonathan Kuminga’s $24.3M Option (16:04–25:38)

• Atlanta declined Jonathon Kuminga’s option, making him an unrestricted free agent at 24.
• Kuminga, previously with the Warriors, failed to solidify himself as a starter anywhere and found consistency elusive.
• Cleveland and Sacramento are rumored suitors.

Key Points:

• “He got off to a hot start then just stepped off a cliff, I don’t know what his value is.” – Joe (16:26)
• The group discusses how today’s NBA has a surplus of young talent, creating log jams and pressuring players to seize every minute.
• Maximizing limited game minutes and “making time count” is a theme.
• Kuminga’s main barrier appears to be his desire to be a lead option, when teams see him as a defensive role player.

Quotes:

• “Don’t count the plays, make the plays count.” – Host (20:21)
• “If you think you a damn starter, you supposed to be killing these dudes any damn way.” – Host (24:41)
• Consistency, maturity, and knowing your role are highlighted as the path to NBA success.

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4. Draymond Green Declines $27.7M Option – LeBron Speculation (25:38–34:47)

• Draymond declined his option to potentially create cap space for Golden State’s pursuit of LeBron James or Anthony Davis. However, doubts are expressed about the likelihood.
• Draymond is seen by the hosts as Steph Curry’s essential on-court protector and emotional leader, unlikely to leave.

Highlights & Host Takes:

• Ocho: “Just conversation. It makes no sense... At this point in their careers, it makes no sense.” (30:32)
• “Owners and GMs talk – LeBron is not in the driver’s seat anymore; he can’t dictate terms late in his career.” – Ocho (32:14)

Memorable Moment:

• The deep dive into superstar leverage as they age: “If you play long enough, you won’t have the cards. Peyton Manning didn’t. Tom Brady didn’t. Jordan didn’t. If you play long enough, all them great hands go back to the house.” – Host (32:47)

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5. The Burden of Expectations on Aging Superstars (34:47–41:47)

• LeBron, nearing 42, still carries the “championship or bust” expectation, unlike other legends late in their careers.
• Debate erupts over why LeBron, but not Kobe or Jordan late in their careers, faced this standard.

Quotes:

• “Nobody in the history of the game… expect championship at 42. But for LeBron, we do.” – Host (34:47)
• “If you’re still playing, we expect you to deliver. That’s what comes with still playing!” – Ocho (36:13)
• The group concludes LeBron’s continued dominance at his age keeps pressure sky high — and any potential move (to Golden State, Miami, Cleveland, etc.) instantly confers contender status.

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6. The Role of Options in Player Negotiations (41:47–45:13)

• The discussion transitions to the importance of "options" in both basketball and broader life.
• Host likens the player's situation to bank loans and relationship dynamics: having options increases your value and leverage in negotiations.

Quotes:

• “It’s always nice to have options — check your pantry. Seven different types of chips, five different types of cereal.” – Host (46:12)

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7. Ben Simmons Training for an NBA Comeback (47:25–66:56)

• Ben Simmons, 29, is working toward an NBA return after missing the prior season. He expresses a desire to play for Philly or Miami, claiming he’s always loved basketball.

Key Points & Skepticism:

• The crew is openly skeptical of Simmons’ love for the game and mental fortitude.
• “Bro, you and her didn’t work out. It’s time to move on. Ain’t no need you trying to rekindle that old flame [with Philly]." – Joe (51:42)
• They question his lack of skill development and confidence, given his stagnant game since his rookie year.

Memorable Quotes:

• “You can talk about you love the game; you don’t love when I watch you play... you haven’t gotten any better from your rookie year to your fifth year.” – Host (53:04)
• “Ain’t no point coming back if you coming back with no confidence.” – Ocho (56:12)
• Shannon: “He missed them checks. That’s what he missed!” (55:39)
• Joe: “He can be a great Swiss army knife... But if you ain’t got love and passion for it, you might as well keep it moving.” (60:15/66:32)

Assessment:

• Simmons might get a camp tryout, but the hosts agree: without confidence and genuine love for the game, he can’t recapture past potential.
• The segment closes with a reminder: fans and franchises never forget a player's draft status, and expectations follow forever.

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Notable Quotes Recap

• On NBA Negotiations:
  “If you get a $175M contract…what you can’t do with $175M you gonna do with $250M?” – Joe (08:41)
• On Consistency:
  “Don’t count the plays, make the plays count.” – Host (20:21)
• On Aging and Expectations:
  "If you play long enough, you won’t have the cards." – Host (32:47)
• On Ben Simmons’ Comeback:
  "He missed them checks. That's what he missed!" – Host (55:39) "Ain’t no point coming back if you coming back with no confidence." – Ocho (56:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jalen Duren trade breakdown: 02:59–15:08
• Kuminga’s option declined: 16:04–25:38
• Draymond/LeBron speculation: 25:38–34:47
• LeBron, aging, and expectations: 34:47–41:47
• Relationship/option analogies: 41:47–45:13
• Ben Simmons’ comeback discussed: 47:25–66:56

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Final Thoughts

The episode encapsulates Nightcap’s unfiltered, insightful style — blending inside knowledge, humor, real talk, and a touch of nostalgia, with sharp takes on NBA contracts, star psychology, and the pressures of expectation. For those following free agency and legacy conversations in sports, this hour delivers depth, debate, and big personalities.

(Content purposely skips all ad, intro/outro, and non-content segments. See timestamps above.)

Transcript

[Host]

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[Commercial Narrator]

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[Host]

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[Joe]

It's the rage bait.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Host]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

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[Ocho]

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[Host]

Jalen Duran trade reports are heating up According to Chris Hayes due to sizable distance into apart negotiation. Detroit Detroit Pistons restricted free agent senator Jalen Duran will meet with Sacramento Kings at the start of free agency and intentions of structuring a signing trade out of Detroit. The Kings could trade Demonte Sabonis to to Detroit for Duran. According to Sam Amic, Duran has a call with the Lakers to discuss the sign and trade scenarios. Also, Luca is a big fan of Durham's game. He won't become playoff time. But anyway, everyone knows the Lakers are just about looking to upgraded to center spot and Durham would certainly qualify. Yet in stark contrast to the King scenario, the Lakers best offering might be draft capital rather than quality players they could trade during into the Lakers salary cap space. League sources say the Lakers star Luka Doncic is known to be a fan of Durham's game, which is monumental factor for any player who's trying to be welcome into the crypt.com arena these days.

[Joe]

Man, listen, this was, this was gonna happen. We gonna let you. We really don't want to give you no 250, so we're gonna let. We're gonna let you go out there and test the market. We're gonna see what the market gonna pay for you. Yeah, we'll be able to match whatever the. So if he can go out there and get a contract for 180 million, we matching that. You feel me?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tab Ramos]

Hey.

[Host]

Yeah, we should not go give you 290.

[Ocho]

So you don't think you're gonna get that supermax somewhere.

[Joe]

Hell no. Ocho, why you think it's taking. Why you think it's the negotiation.

[Host]

He can't get a supermax, Ocho, because the supermax is they can give you the fifth year, right? He can't get the fifth year. He can only get a four year once you. Cause see, what they try to do is that you sign your own player, then you don't go into the second apron.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Host]

So now he can't get the fifth year. He can only get a fourth year. So four years, I mean it's gonna be like $120 million less.

[Joe]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

So yo, you might be right. Like a 4 for 179. 4 for 1, 4 for 180. Like a, like, like a Austin Reeves guy.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think, I think the Pistons would gladly pay that versus having to pay him 250, bro. I mean it's just.

[Host]

No, it'd be 297 the supermax because he made the all NBA.

[Joe]

He ain't getting that old show.

[Ocho]

So he. So he wanted that. 297.

[Joe]

Yeah, he.

[Host]

It's. Yeah, it's like two, I think 289 to 293.

[Joe]

It just don't affect the game enough, bro, to get somebody, you know what I mean? Yeah, he a blue collar, hard work. He averaged 20 and 10 throughout the. The regular season, but damn, that playoff run just didn't help him at all. You feel me?

[Host]

It didn't. And I don't. I don't really think they that excited about playing the 180. I understand that he's 22 years of age, but.

[Ocho]

And he only 22.

[Host]

If you make it seem like K. Cunningham, 27, he showed up. That was supposed. That's supposed to be our one two punch, right? That's supposed to be Shay J Dub. That's supposed to be jtjb. That's what K. Cunningham endurance supposed to be. Yeah, everybody have that one?

[Joe]

Yeah, they're gonna. They're gonna bring him back. They just don't want to bring him back at the price that he's trying to negotiate right now. I mean, that's. That's too damn high right now. Okay, Ocho, I'm just keeping 100.

[Host]

Yeah, you got. Hey, yeah, I mean, you got to think about it, Joe. I mean, he just. I mean, he ain't got no jump shot. He's just a picker. He's just a role. A role player.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, Rose, he dunk, get some off, get some little offensive rebound. But I'm saying to pay that kind of money, bro, I need a midi. I need some threes or something.

[Joe]

They still need.

[Host]

They. I just can't pay you that just to be a roll guy because they still. And when I say roll, I mean rolling to the basket. I don't mean R O L E a role player. I mean that's what he is in the.

[Joe]

Hey, they need more scoring, bro. They need somebody who can.

[Host]

Yeah, okay.

[Joe]

Put that ball in the. In the basket, man.

[Host]

They talking about he ain't a finished product. Okay, well, I'll pay him when he finished. Hey, that's. Hey, when somebody. Somebody building your house, do you finish playing them before they done with it? You a. You do walk through. Hey, I come through with expecting. What's every. I sign off with everything, then I pay your damn money. If they billing you a deck or if they building you a car. Oh, it's still okay, when you finish, let me know. I got the money right here for you. So when he's a finished product, they say 24, 25. Yeah, then I give him that. Then I give him the big.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think, I think even if. I think even if the Pistons would have made it to the finals, he probably still could get it. But the fact that they came up short and his productivity wasn't where it needed to be, they not giving him that much.

[Host]

Yeah, I just. So.

[Joe]

Hey, hey. So. So the gamble that you take on Ocho is, okay, boom, I hit the market. Let's say I do go get a contract for 180 million, y' all match and I come back, it's like, damn, did y' all really want me back though?

[Host]

Yeah, we want you back at our price.

[Joe]

Yeah, but, but you know, I mean,

[Host]

they say, Joe, for it to be. They said they are far. Hold on, let me go back. Due to sizable distance apart in negotiation. Yeah, I think if they 50 me, let's just say he can get 250. He get 290. They at 240. I don't think he got a problem with that. For that thing to be sizable, that thing got to be at least 100. Yeah.

[Joe]

Oh, for sure.

[Ocho]

Hey, whatever it is is disrespectful. Based on what he thought he was gonna get or based on what he think his value is. Letting him hit the market. That'll show you what your true value.

[Joe]

Yeah, it is. It is.

[Host]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Let him, let him go out there. Matter of fact, when he go out there on that market, he's still gonna be pissed because they definitely not gonna give him know what he want or what he thinking.

[Joe]

I'm saying. But, but listen, if you get a hundred and seventy five million dollar contract, I mean, damn, what you can't do with 175 is you gonna do with 250.

[Ocho]

Hold on, Joe. If. If what? If. If what he's done is he's scheduled to make 250 because of, because of the awards or the accolades that he's

[Host]

13 ball NBA players.

[Ocho]

He want just that.

[Joe]

Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Hey, hey.

[Ocho]

But there's a whole. Hey, there's a big difference between 250 and 170, I can tell you that.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's a big difference. But damn, I mean, if you living right, you.

[Host]

If you. If you. If you jack off 170, you jacked off 250.

[Ocho]

Hold on, I gotta use bathroom real quick.

[Host]

Go ahead and that, that's that's the thing, Joe. I mean, like you said, it didn't do him in a favor. The last time his organization saw him play, he wasn't very good. The last time that fan base saw him play, he wasn't very good. Yeah, you want to leave an impression,

[Joe]

like, bro, we got to have so now. So now you're gonna. You and your agent got some work to do because you got to go go find just one damn team. All you need is one team. And maybe they had to front load the contract to Whereas, you know, Detroit just can't do it. You know, it may be a situation like that, you know what I mean? Like it's ways to get around it if he really trying to get out of Detroit. Because you never know, man. You know how guys is especially key guys when they feel like the team don't take care of them, you know, they kind of have a little resentment toward them and they could be really wanting to move on. So we don't really know how Duran really feel. You know what I mean?

[Host]

And plus, the thing is, Joe, is that if you give him 290, he's making more than Cade.

[Joe]

Yeah. And it's gonna be hard as hell to bring some help in there.

[Host]

It's gonna be hard to hell. So hold on. You mean it to K says hey, I'm. I'm. What was Cade a second team, third team? No, let's see. It was Wim. No, I think didn't it might have been first team? Yeah, I think it was first. I think it was Cade, Shay, Luca, and then it was Wimby and Jokic. Okay, bro, K, like I'm first team and you and you make 40, 50 million. Oh, no,

[Joe]

it's timing. It's kind of. It's just like football. It's like the quarterback. Hell, when they. When they. They new quarterback sign re. Re redo the market. Same thing.

[Host]

Yeah, timing, but. But that quarterback ain't on your team. Imagine, imagine here you is Joe Johnson. They paying Joe 30. You done been to five, six all star games. You've been an all NBA player. And here's a guy coming, you know, he just made 13. JoJo the Joseph Johnson I know. Hey, see Joe. See Joe got y' all food, man. Y' all just Joe like, man, you know, everything just easy peace over here. Don't let Joe.

[Joe]

Hey, hey. I ain't got nothing to say. Hey, I'm with you, boy. Hey. Hey. Hey, you. Hey. Hey, boy, you and Ocho really over here getting money, ain't y'? All, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Hey, hey, Ocho, you.

[Tab Ramos]

Hey.

[Host]

Oh, no. When them guys somebody used, they signed somebody on a. They bring a free agent in.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host]

Here we are. We don't been here all this time. We don't want game. And you bring this guy and you paying him,

[Ocho]

man, please.

[Joe]

But that's your dog. Hold on.

[Host]

That's what we do.

[Joe]

But that's your dog, though. That's your dog. That's your partner. That's your player partner. Y' all on this eight? Yeah.

[Host]

He ain't with no game for you.

[Ocho]

He helped you do nothing at all.

[Host]

And then I've been. I've been asking for a little. Little piece of change. I wasn't even asking.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah,

[Host]

but y' all told me y' all ain't had no money. Where y' all getting this from?

[Joe]

Hey, I'm telling y', all, man. Timing is everything, fellas.

[Ocho]

Oh, hey, that especially.

[Host]

It is.

[Joe]

Especially in the NBA, bro. I'm telling you.

[Host]

Timing. Hey, there's a difference between born in 68 and 80.

[Joe]

Think about it. Hey, hey, hey, Ocho. My first contract to come to Atlanta for 70. Hell, that's what the bouncer got for the number one pick. Yeah, that's what the number one pick got. Times are different, man.

[Host]

Yep. Look at the tight ends. The tight ends are getting more than the signing bonus that I made my whole career.

[Joe]

Damn. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, think about it. Guys get receivers. Not o. Making 42, 43. Puk about to get 44.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host]

A year.

[Ocho]

Hey, well deserved, too.

[Host]

You used to go buy a franchise for 50 million. An entire franchise. Mr. Bolan brought the Broncos for $68 million in 1984. The Steelers became a franchise for. For $3,000. Damn.

[Joe]

What we gonna get, man?

[Host]

Go look. See what they play for the Giants. Go look and see what they play with the. The. The Houston North. Well, the Tennessee Titans used to be the Oilers. Go look at that. Look what they played. It was a lot of. It was a lot of money. I mean, you know, three, $4 million back in the 60s, and it was a lot of damn money.

[Ocho]

That's a lot of money. Right?

[Host]

But just think about it. You could buy enough. The Jags and the. The Carolina came in existence in 1990. They became a team. They brought in 94, and. And then they started playing football in 95. Quarter of a million. Quarter of a billion. Now look what they're worth.

[Joe]

You.

[Host]

At some point, it's about to get. Ocho, you're not going to be able to Buy a team for less than 8 billion.

[Joe]

That's crazy.

[Host]

You probably a team to buy a team now it's going to be 10 billion. Hey, they said the Cowboys worth about 16 billion.

[Joe]

Now you can get in on the low right now for the big three. They selling teams. Oh, bye bye. Hey, by 10 M's. By 10 M's.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

In about seven to 10 years. You better flip that to about, about a hundred. Done. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm just throwing it out there.

[Host]

You say Joe Ocho, remember, think about it. The WNBA team you could buy, you could use. You could buy WNBA team by 7 million.

[Joe]

Not no more.

[Host]

Now they 300, 400 meal.

[Ocho]

Golly.

[Tab Ramos]

Yep.

[Host]

That's what the fertitas. That's what they bought for. They bought the UFC, they bought the logo and some pads. $2 million. It's worth about 7 billion now.

[Ocho]

Crazy work. Crazy work.

[Host]

K was first team. He was all first team. All NBA. I thought so. The Atlanta Hawks are declining Jonathan Kaminga's 24.3 million dollar team option. Kaminga is not an unrestricted free agent. With the reports that Sacramento Kings and the Cleveland Cavaliers are both showing interest. Joe Kaminga got off to this hot start and just stepped off a cliff. What happened, Joe?

[Joe]

Honestly, I don't know, man. You know, it's still puzzling to me, Uncle Ocho, because even coming from the warriors, you know, when we first got him here in Atlanta, bro, he shows so many great flashes of what he could potentially be. Obviously, you know, I thought he played, I thought he played decent in that, in that series against the Knicks, especially those first two games in New York. I don't know, man. I really don't. I really don't know. I don't know what his value is. I'm not, I'm not sure what he's asking for, but it seems like the house just, you know, looking to move on. They've added so many different pieces to this puzzle that man, the house, they, they really trying to do something, bro. So I don't know.

[Host]

Well, consider they don't think he worth 24.3 million because that's really not a whole lot of money for somebody. I mean he can't.

[Commercial Narrator]

He.

[Host]

Not that. I mean what is he, 24?

[Joe]

Yeah, he probably about if he's that

[Host]

so 24 years of age. So of a guy of that. If, if of his that you believe that can be something that ain't no money.

[Joe]

Yeah, but, but I think what, what happens is, I think it puts him in free agency. So I. I think somebody. Somebody will pay him. I don't know if they'll pay him, you know, a hundred some, but he'll get an opportunity.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I don't understand how we got to this point, Uncle Joe. I really don't. You know. You know, obviously, having the, The. The. I would consider the fallout with Steve Kerr, you know, about your playing time. Were you feeling you can. You can contribute to the team and, and do what Steph does, but, you know, you're not Steph. There's a certain pecking order and, and everything goes through him offensively. And you come to Atlanta and you have. You have a good game here, and then you. You disappear for a little bit, then you have a good game. You're not really consistent to now being. Know them declining, not paying you, you know your options.

[Joe]

Hey, maybe he wants to be a starter, Uncle Ocho. Maybe he don't want to come off the bench.

[Host]

Well, that's two teams. That said you're better suited to come off the bench.

[Joe]

Amen.

[Host]

Hey, Joe, does he start. If he goes to Cleveland, does he start in Cleveland?

[Joe]

It's possible. Yeah, it's possible.

[Host]

But here's the thing. He goes to Cleveland, he's still third option. He ain't in front of Mitch, he ain't in front of Harden. So he's third option. He might be fourth because are they trading Evan Mobley? So now if he goes to Cleveland, what is it? At best, he's fourth.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Unless he knows something, like. Like maybe he knows something, his agent knows something, or somebody knows something that we.

[Joe]

Man, I'm telling you, listen, in the NBA, bro, it's a pecking order. And what you have to figure out early is how you fit in that damn pecking order and what you can do or how you can contribute to this team to make us successful. Regardless, if you feel like you're supposed to be a starter or not, or if you're supposed to get more playing time or not, you. The minutes that you do get, bro, you need to go out there and show your ass.

[Host]

You gotta maximize them.

[Joe]

You gotta go out there and produce. See, the problem we have in the NBA because the league. The league is so young now, is that it's kind of like oversaturated to some degree, you know? So it's gonna be a lot of good talent that's not really gonna get good looks because the league is so young. Hell, this might be a guy who. A few years in front of you, but he'd probably Be one year older than you. You know what I mean? So that's kind of what you gotta deal with. It's like a log jam, bro. It's so many. So many young cats in the NBA now. And what we always talk about, hell, if it's 50 something coming in, hell, it's got to be 50 something going out.

[Ocho]

Going out. Yeah.

[Host]

I give you a prime example. Joe and Ocho. Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves got limited minutes, and in those minutes, he balled his damn ass off. And they kept giving him more minutes, and he kept getting better until they had no choice but to put his ass in the starting lineup. That's all you got to do.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Host]

Ocho, you didn't start right away, but when you got in that little 10, 15, 20 plays you got, they like, hey, we will go ahead and move on out. These veteran guys, he need to start. Same thing with you, Joe, same thing with me. It's really that simple. Don't count the plays, make the plays count. You hear us? Tell my girlfriend say, boy, hey, stop counting time. Make time count. Too many people count time, but they don't make time count. You got 24 hours in a day. The same amount is everybody else. Nobody has 27, nobody has 28.

[Joe]

And you gotta lock in, bro.

[Host]

I might not get. I tell you what, I might not get about four or five plays. But I tell you what, you remember.

[Joe]

Hey, real talk.

[Host]

You gonna remember two of them. I'm gonna f two of them up, and it's gonna be one of them.

[Joe]

Gonna be a push. Hey, well, hey, I remember them days, boy. You just want to get on the court, Ocho, because, see, back then. Oh, yeah, when I first came in, hell, if you ain't played 20 minutes, then you had to do 30 minutes of cardio right after the game. Boy, listen, I'm trying. I can't wait to look at the statute after the game. Damn. I only played 20. I only played 19 minutes. Yeah, 19 minutes, your ass still gotta run. You know what I mean? You still gotta get extra cardio. But I'm trying. I'm trying to get them 20 minutes in, man.

[Host]

Yeah, let me get 20. I don't care. I don't care if it's 20 on the head.

[Joe]

I gotta do whatever I can to stay on that floor. Okay, Ocho, I'm telling you.

[Host]

Yeah, I know another guy that when he got in there, he balled out. Y' all might know him. Dylan Harper.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

He different.

[Host]

A.J. mitchell.

[Joe]

Yeah, we. Hey, hey, hey. When your name and number Called just be ready. Just be ready.

[Host]

Consistency is the key.

[Joe]

Consistency, it's part of being a professional. When your time come, bro, you gotta be ready to step up. That's the hardest part though. What a lot of cats don't know and understand. Because uncle ocho, in the NBA, you can go 10, 12 games. Don't touch the flow. Somebody go down now, your ass in rotation.

[Ocho]

Hey, next man up, Joe gotta be ready.

[Host]

Do you like him in Cleveland, Joe?

[Joe]

Yeah, I like him in Cleveland. Hill, they need some defense. See, the thing with.

[Host]

Man, that man don't want to play. Joe, you know what that man want to do.

[Joe]

You gotta look at the circumstances. If you commingle. Damn, I'm going to Cleveland. I'm playing with James Harden, I'm playing with Donovan Mitchell. I know they, they gonna get their fair share of shots. I gotta be a disruptor on defense. I gotta score at least 6 to 10 points off defense alone. Now I'm gonna get some good looks because them guys gonna demand double teams and I'm gonna get some wide open looks. But man, listen, you can't predicate your game on offense, bro. When you go into some of these teams, somebody, somebody gotta do the dirty work.

[Host]

Well, I brought a suit, so that means I ain't trying to get dirty. I ain't bringing no Cub offs.

[Joe]

Hey, we need.

[Host]

I ain't playing no blue jeans and I ain't got no skills over here.

[Joe]

Well, you know what we got going on over here? We just brought you to Cleveland. You need a. You need to have your boots on. You need to be ready to go.

[Host]

But, but here's the thing. You're right, Joe. That should be his mentality. But what did. What was the problem in, in Golden State? He wanted to be Steph Curry. Okay? He goes to Atlanta, say, this is my chance. But they got Jaylen Johnson, they got Alexander. Alexander Walker, and they got Dyson Daniels. What's the dude. No, the other one just resigned.

[Joe]

C.J.

[Host]

mcCullough. Yeah, McCullum. So now we.

[Commercial Narrator]

He.

[Host]

Guess where he's at. He's fourth again. We got enough scores.

[Joe]

Yeah, and you gotta learn to see.

[Host]

We did. We need, we need, we need a custodian. We got four cashiers already filling the spot. If one of them call out sick instead of having you tidy up the place, we'll let you fill in. But right now that's not what we need.

[Joe]

I thought that. I thought it was a perfect match, bro.

[Host]

Him.

[Joe]

Him in Atlanta. Because listen, he comes off the bench playing against second unit guys Hell, if you think you're a first, if you think you're a damn starter, you supposed to be killing these dudes any damn way

[Host]

he does. Oh, but see the problem, Joe, he has that burst, he have that a game or two and then he's.

[Joe]

That's the sign of young players, bro, the ups and downs. You gotta learn to be consistent. You, you, you, you have to, you know, have a routine and be disciplined to it, bro, because you can the one thing in the league, because the games come in the regularity to where you playing them every other night, man. You got to put a game behind you and be able to move forward and be consistent and do that same act again. You feel what I'm saying? And that's part of being a professional. That's what the great ones do. They know how to be consistent every game.

[Host]

Draymond Green is declining his 27.7 million dollar player option to become a free agent. According to Shams, this move gives the Warrior flexibility to pursue LeBron James and free agency and Anthony Davis via the trade. The former Big Four and NBA Insider reported in April that the warriors preference was Green to decline the option.

[Commercial Narrator]

Sign A Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at. Don't sleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, A medicine company.

[Advertiser]

The official language of football is trash talk, late night group chats, memes and unbelievable highlight clips. That's why Boost Mobile brings you our new Global Connection plan, the first plan ever made for WhatsApp. Get unlimited data, talk and text, international roaming and calls to over 100 countries for just $40 a month. $40 price includes $5 a month autopay discount after 40 gigabytes of premium high speed data. Speeds will be lowered. Coverage not available everywhere. Visit Store or BoostMobile.com for details.

[Commercial Narrator]

I turned off news altogether.

[Host]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Joe]

It's the rage Bait. Yep.

[Commercial Narrator]

Feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Host]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Advertiser]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from inside American Soccer. And this summer, topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group. Special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game. And at more than 60 locations. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Erin Andrews]

Hey, it's Erin Andrews from Calm down with Erin and Karissa. I don't know about your house, but at my house everybody's online, streaming, gaming, shopping, zoom calls, you name it. That's why having fast, reliable Internet that can keep up really matters and why you need Optimum's famously fast fiber powered Internet. It blows flaky 5G home Internet out of the water. It's fast and reliable and doesn't slow down when everybody's online, which, let's be honest, is all the time. Right now they have a deal that's tough to beat. Just 25amonth for five years. So don't wait. Call 8669-APUMENTUM, visit optimum.com or stop by your local Optimum store today. Famously fast fiber powered Internet for $25 a month for five years. That's a no brainer. Terms apply. See optimum.com for details.

[Host]

Longer term deal at a lower annual salary. If Green does that, it could create some cap flexibility as Golden State starts to plan for the future. Joe, do you see great Draymond leaving? Or was this all a part of the master plan?

[Joe]

Oh, this is definitely all part of the master plan. Draymond ain't leaving Steph Curry's side. Uncle Ocho, he is. He's the bruiser, the muscle, the big bro. And if anything ever get out of hand, you know I'm gonna handle it. You know what I mean? He ain't gonna never let nothing happen to Steph and they know that. And to keep him around as that emotional leader. Yes, we gotta do that. I also think they do got a little something up they sleeve and what they trying to do, whether it's bring Braun at 80, whatever the case may be, this will give them some flexibility to be able to go out and try to venture out and get other guys to come join. But I guess, man, if you. If you the Wizards, why the hell would you do this? Why would you take Jimmy Butler in return? That just don't make no sense to me. So I'm curious to see what they gonna do.

[Host]

Ocho, what you thinking?

[Ocho]

No, just conversation. Just conversation. It's not happening. It makes no sense. Makes no sense at all. Listen, I love LeBron. I know LeBron would love to play with. Would love to play with Steph, but at this point in their careers, it makes no sense at all. Make no sense at all. Again, I'm gonna throw this out there again for. For both of y', all, for everybody in the chat, when I tell you Mickey Harrison and Pat Riley have some of their sleeve. Please listen to me when I say that. The honest stuff I was saying, it's six months out. You see what happened. One more thing is brewing. It's on the horizon. But I love the conversation. This is just to deflect on. What's really going to happen is these conversations with Draymond declining his option and LeBron going to. To the Bay to play with Steph because, you know, they're friends and always wanted to. That's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It sounds good, but. No.

[Host]

Well, I mean, but you think about it. They reside prozingas 2 years, 40 million. That's a fallback plan. Yeah, they would like to. They can still trade. But the problem. But here's the thing, though, Joe. We've got to have something because if this doesn't. If this plan, master plan doesn't come together and we let presenters go and we don't get ad and we don't get. So they. I don't really think they had a choice in this matter.

[Joe]

Hey, listen, think about this though. Do you think Rich Paul got a little trick up his sleeve or where he just trying to put some pressure on some. Some teams like, man, we got. We.

[Host]

Maybe that's.

[Joe]

We. We got a spot we can go now. We ain't like we we sitting here waiting on y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Joe]

We. We got somewhere we can go.

[Ocho]

But you know what? The. The funny thing about it too uncle and Joe is even if he has a trick up your sleeve, even if he's trying To. To play hardball or play chess, whatever you want to call it. You know, these owners and need GMs, you know, they talk. They have conversations as well. Like, LeBron is not in the. Is not in the. In in the driver's seat anymore. He's not in the position where he can control, where he has the leverage. So whatever trick Rich Rick might have. Rich. Excuse me, Might have, it ain't. This ain't the time to be pulling it, because it's not going to work.

[Host]

It doesn't matter if you play long enough. Guess what? You won't have the cards.

[Ocho]

Bingo.

[Host]

Peyton Manning didn't have the cards in Indy.

[Ocho]

Bingo.

[Host]

Tom Brady didn't have the cards. Jordan didn't have the cars in Chicago, and he didn't have the cards in D.C. if you play long enough, Joe, all them great hands that you had, eventually they go back to the house. That's just the way it is. Play long enough and you'll see.

[Joe]

But I still think BRO has great value to wherever he goes.

[Host]

Oh, he does, absolutely. But he has what's important to him, Joe. What is? Because here's the thing that LeBron has to do, and all great players. This is what I recommend. He's still one of the few players, even at his age, the expectations doesn't change. It's championship for him now, can he. And he's done a great job of blocking out noise.

[Tab Ramos]

He did.

[Host]

He's always done what he wanted to do, regardless of what critics are saying. I want to go to Miami, F y'. All. I want to go back to Cleveland, F y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Host]

I want to go to. I want to go to la, F y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Host]

He's always been able to do that. Now, at this juncture, what is really, really important to you if you lose a game, are you gonna be happy? The bus rides, the plane rides, the locker room, the meals, all that stuff weighs in. Weighs. Have to wait into it. So that's what a guy like LeBron has to look at. At his age, he still has those expectations. Let that sink in, because he's LeBron James. He's about to be 42, and what's the expectation that he's supposed to be just like Joker, just like Luca, just like Shea. Championship at 42. Nobody in the history of the game.

[Joe]

Yeah,

[Ocho]

but that's what. That's Uncle Joe. That's what comes. Was still playing when you're still playing.

[Host]

No, that would come.

[Joe]

Yeah, there you go.

[Ocho]

But that too.

[Host]

Shaq didn't have that pressure. Shaq played 19 years. Kobe didn't have that. Kobe played 20 years. Did Kobe have that expectations in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16? Did Carl Malone have that when Jordan went to Washington? Was the expectation was a championship. So what you mean? What you mean, Ocho? I mean, rephrase that. Come on back. Cause he's still playing. Cause I know guys that still play late in their career, and they have those expectations. So you want to rewind that?

[Ocho]

No. Who played in. Who played all the way to 41, 42?

[Host]

There are a lot of guys that played late in their career. I'm saying no. How old were Jordan when Jordan went to Washington? Was a championship the expectation.

[Joe]

No.

[Ocho]

No.

[Host]

Why not? He was still playing. He was 41, 42.

[Ocho]

Well, we talk. We talk about the king. We talk about your goat, right?

[Host]

No, no, no. You said because he's still playing. I said because LeBron James is. He's the only one that has these expectations at that age. I said other guys were playing at that age. I said Kobe didn't have expectations in 2013, 14, 15, or 16, and he was in his 30s.

[Joe]

Greatness. That's why.

[Ocho]

No, he's still playing. So therefore, if you're still playing, we're expecting you to deliver.

[Host]

But why did you expect that a Jordan? Why did you expect that a Kobe?

[Ocho]

But I thought we talked. We talk about the goat. LeBron is the goat. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You said LeBron is the goat, right?

[Host]

I said that. No, listen to me.

[Ocho]

The expectations are different for said goat, right?

[Host]

Whoa, Joe, Jordan, how much, Joe? How much push whack we done got Kobe, Jordan, LeBron could never be Kobe. He could never be Jordan. But they never had the expectations that this man got.

[Ocho]

No.

[Host]

And I'm just asking, Ocho, why.

[Ocho]

Wait a minute. What do you mean, why? I just told you why.

[Joe]

It's because of his greatness, Ojo.

[Ocho]

Yeah, obviously, we know that. We all understand how great he is, but he's still.

[Host]

So Jordan wasn't great when he went to Washington? Yeah.

[Ocho]

I mean, he's considered a goat depending on who you are.

[Host]

Okay, okay, so he. So why was the expectation that you got on LeBron? Why were they on him?

[Ocho]

Oh, wait, hey, you can't. You can't ask me. I'm giving you the answer on why people feel the way they feel if they're still playing.

[Host]

As a matter of fact, Kobe. You do realize Kobe retired at, what, 38, Joe. So at 34, 35. So 35, 36, 37, 38. So the last four years why wouldn't he have those expectations?

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey. If you're still going, what are they owing judge you about?

[Host]

By.

[Ocho]

By your. By your old self. Right.

[Host]

By your. But I'm saying again, there we go. It's fair or unfair. I'm saying why no other greats late in their career had the same level of expectation. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's fair or unfair. I'm just asking why didn't we put those expectations on those.

[Joe]

Because none of them was playing at the level that LeBron is playing at at 41.

[Ocho]

Ah, that. That is a good one. Hey, who's the. Who's the all time leading NBA scorer? Okay. Expectations are different because he's still playing.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

So this is, this is what we're expecting from Said go.

[Host]

But I'm just trying to say why you didn't expect this from a 35 year old or 36 year old or 37 year old or don't you find that odd, Joe?

[Ocho]

No.

[Host]

That you expect something from a 40, 41, 42 that you didn't expect from a 35, 36, 37, 38. Now something's wrong. Either my math is not mathing or something is not right.

[Ocho]

They weren't the king. They weren't the chosen one.

[Host]

They the Mamba. And they air. They still went by one name.

[Joe]

Hey, they beloved Kobe, bro. And he. And he didn't. They were not great. He deserved. He wasn't. They did not have great teams, you know, in his latter years, you know, for the Lakers. And he just wasn't contributing the way LeBron is. I mean, those are facts too, Joe.

[Host]

All right. They gonna hate you right now.

[Joe]

They love you.

[Host]

They just be getting on me and. Oo, you better say that.

[Joe]

100. Huh? I mean, you. We've never seen what this young man, LeBron James is doing, bro. We never seen that at his age. We've never seen anybody play this long and be at this level. We've never seen it. So yes, anytime you insert him on any damn roster, on any franchise, yes, expectations are going to be high. Championship. Yeah, it is.

[Host]

But the question is, even if that's not an option, but like you said, Joe, he goes to Golden State, we know they're assembling. They're trying to bring you bring Anthony Davis in. Even with Steph Curry and Draymond Green and LeBron James, the expectation is to contend.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

If he stays in la, it's to contend. If he goes to Cleveland, it's to Contend. If he goes to Miami, it's to contend.

[Ocho]

Well, anyway, he goes. You know what happens when he goes there? Huh?

[Host]

Because I think he's only gonna go to.

[Ocho]

Wait, let me finish. There was a time when he was young, regardless of what team he went to, for some reason they always ended up in the finals.

[Host]

True.

[Ocho]

So that's the expectation when LeBron goes somewhere, even at 42 years old.

[Erin Andrews]

You're right.

[Ocho]

You can't. You can't get away from that on what you got people used to. Based on who you are.

[Host]

But.

[Ocho]

And you're still choosing to play. And I know you're not playing for fun. Huh? You got to be playing for. Actually, you know what? I want to make one more ring. One more run at a ring. You're not still playing all the way in the 40. In 42 years of age to say, you know what? I want to go play with Steph and have some goddamn fun. Especially in the goddamn East. They have to deal with the goddamn spurs and Thunder. Oh, yeah. I almost said Oklahoma Nuggets.

[Host]

I think that. But here's the thing, though, Ocho, you still gotta love it because the process doesn't change.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Host]

So you still got to be able to say, I want to get to the arena five hours before and do all the stuff. And I still want to get to the gym early, even on shoot around days and do what I need to do, get the workout in. And I want. But so it's got to be Ocho. It can't. If. And we talked about greatness, how monotonous and boring that it is. But for somehow he's been able to keep it fun.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

He's been able to keep an excellent. Exciting to him. Why it might not be exciting to us. It's exciting to him. I mean, think about it, bro. Man, you know, sometimes you don't feel like getting up early in the morning and to be doing that for 25 years.

[Ocho]

Yeah. But that's all he know too. Think about it. That's. That's all he knows outside of business adventures, outside of some of the hobbies that he enjoys. True golf. The. He's keeping the main thing. The main.

[Joe]

That's who he is.

[Ocho]

That's who he is. It's giving him everything. That is his identity.

[Joe]

But I do think he's going to be very strategic when it comes to picking a team that he goes to, you know? Yes, I think he would love to do this Golden State thing, but I could still. I could also still see him going to Miami too, though, Uncle Ocho, I ain't gonna lie.

[Host]

Hey, Joe, Options. See here, the problem is. And we do. We use relationships a lot on this show, Joe. Yeah, but if she doesn't think you have options or you don't think she have options, what do they do? Give you their butt to kiss? Yeah, you'll give her your butt to kiss. She'll give you her butt to kiss. As long as they either party don't think you have options the moment. That's what happens when somebody starts to. So show interest in either one of the parties, People start to act differently, don't they? Chat. Y' all know what I'm talking about.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

You ain't gonna get nobody like me. You ain't gonna never find another B. Okay,

[Ocho]

Little delay. Little do they know, it's a thousand years.

[Host]

Hey, she said I found you. Oh, why would you be.

[Ocho]

Hey,

[Host]

hey, but no, but here's the thing, though, Ocho, talk to me. The guys we like kind of the similar type of woman.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

A height Coke bottle.

[Ocho]

Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, Coke.

[Host]

The old Coke bottle, not the 2 liter.

[Joe]

Yeah, the little glass joint.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. So options. As long as the job. If. Hey, look, and the old saying, the bank is the perfect pay place to borrow money as long as they don't know you need it. See, if they. If you need money, I go get a loan right now from the bank. Let the average person try to go get one for the bank. Because you know why? The bank know I don't need it. They give it to me. They like, oh, you need. I can't mess with you. That's how. That's how the opposite. Hey, the job. Oh, you got. Oh, hold on. You got two or three job offers. Yeah, I do. Now all of a sudden, they act different as opposed to they looking at your. Okay, so you hadn't worked here in what, six months? Oh, says right now you're in between jobs, so you have a job. Okay.

[Joe]

You just. Okay, okay.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Different conversation, same thing.

[Host]

A lady know that you got options. And guess what? If you got money, you got options.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

Wait, I think you know, I ain't finished saying no more.

[Ocho]

Okay,

[Host]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

I mean, if you guys.

[Host]

Because it's really. It's really simple. A guy that has money even as he age, what will he have? Joe and Ocho money. The question is, you 25, you look good. You're 30. You look good. What about 35?

[Joe]

40?

[Host]

What about 45? What about 50?

[Joe]

Because the eight. And now you got to put some time into that body now. Yeah. Hey, to me. So

[Host]

the Lakers are not going to do anything as long as they think they're the only team. They don't think you have no options,

[Joe]

man. I don't know.

[Host]

And you just talked about it earlier. Joe Detroit said we ain't doing nothing.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

See now if they find out he got an option.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they gonna come. They gonna come and knock it on

[Joe]

that right up under.

[Host]

They.

[Joe]

Oh, the Lakers can't. The Lakers can't do that with Brian, though. Lakers can't do that with Braun. If he signed with another team, he gone.

[Host]

Yes, that's. But that's what I'm saying. It's being reported today. They reached out to Braun because remember the four before everybody? The reports were they hadn't had a conversation with Braun.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Host]

The reports are today. They reached out to Rich. I don't know what's true. I'm just saying what's being reported. So what's being reported is that they finally reached out about having a conversation. They want to know what he wants to do. I guess. What do you want to do? What are you thinking? How long do you want to play? You want to play one plus one. You want. This is going to be it. X, Y and Z. What do you want to do? But it's always nice to have options. It's always nice to have options. Go look at your pantry. You see seven different types of chips, five different types of cereal compared to when you was growing up. Number them dirty ass cornflakes and King

[Joe]

vitamins that you had to put a sprinkle a little sugar on them

[Host]

and the sugar go down to the bottom. It was no Frosted Flakes. It wasn't no Apple Jack. It wasn't no Digging Smacks. It wasn't none of that. Yeah, bland, bland cornflakes or King vitamins. So options.

[Ocho]

Hey.

[Host]

Former number one overall draft pick Ben Simmons is training for a potential comeback to the NBA.

[Commercial Narrator]

Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

[Advertiser]

The official language of football is trash talk, late night group chats, memes and unbelievable highlight clips. That's why Boost Mobile brings you our new Global Connection plan. The first plan ever made for WhatsApp. Get unlimited data, talk and text, international roaming and calls to over 100 countries for just $40 a month. $40 price includes $5 a month autopay discount after 40gb of premium high speed data. Speeds will be lowered. Coverage not available everywhere. Visit Store or BoostMobile.com for details.

[Commercial Narrator]

I turned off news altogether.

[Host]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Joe]

It's the rage bait.

[Commercial Narrator]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Host]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Advertiser]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News Reporting for America.

[Tab Ramos]

This is Tab Ramos from inside American Soccer and this summer, topgolf is turning into the ultimate soccer destination. They're not just throwing games on in the background. Topgolf is going all in on soccer. They've got a new soccer themed game you can play with your group, Special in venue activations, exclusive food and drink items inspired by the global game and at more than 60 locations. They've even installed full size soccer goals so you can try to hit golf balls right into the net. And every match all summer long will be on throughout the venue. So it's a great place to watch with friends, hang out, compete a little bit and enjoy the atmosphere. And if you want to keep the fun going all summer, you can get the topgolf Summer Fun Pass which lets you play every single day and bring up to five guests every visit. Get yours [e-mail] FunPass Summer hits different at TopGolf.

[Erin Andrews]

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[Host]

A statement from M Health. He said, I plan on getting as strong as I can physically and getting my ass on the court. And then the team realizing that my abilities will be needed. I don't have a plan on where. Maybe I'll go back to Philly. Miami, where it would be nice and not because it's Miami. I like Eric Spoelstra. I like the Heat, I like their organization. I like the culture. It's never been about do I love playing basketball. That's never been a question.

[Joe]

Actually it has.

[Host]

That's in my DNA. But I think sometimes you get over all the bull jive that comes with it. Simmons was out of the NBA last season. The last time he played with the Clippers in 2425. Joe Simmons is only 29 years of age. Should Philly spin the block?

[Joe]

Nah, nah, nah. Philly don't need to spin that block. He need to go somewhere else. Okay, Ocho, leave that alone. Hey, hey, listen. You and her didn't work out. It's time to move on. Ain't no need you trying to rekindle that old flame, man. Let that go, man. Move around. You know what I mean? No, sir. Don't go back to Philly.

[Ocho]

Don't nobody else. Don't nobody else need to deal with it either.

[Host]

But don't know. Bro, bro, stop that. To say nobody questioned whether or not you. That's never. Yes, it is. They question whether you love the game of basketball because they didn't see the improvement. If you love the game of basketball, I can tell guys that love. And I'm not talking about obviously the greats, because you see the improvement. Even Jordan. Even average. Average. Damn near 29 as a rookie.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Host]

You still saw him getting better and better. You see the great Austin Reeves. I love to use Austin Reed as an example because here's an undrafted free agent. They got better and better and better and better. I give you another one. Nicola Jokic, a second round draft pick. A three time mvp. How many time first team all NBA Finals mvp.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host]

You see guys that love the game, how they get better, you can talk about you love the game. You don't love when I watch you play.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I see you haven't gotten any better from your rookie year to your fifth year.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[Ocho]

Hey, Joe, actions speak louder than words, you know, Right. Writing all that stuff you talking about and you know, being Away from the game for a year. Anybody that love the game of basketball, you're not disappearing. You're not leaving said game, not the game. That was your. Your childhood dream, you know, to make it to the NBA and you take a year off. And when you did play, like UNC said, you didn't improve at all. Then you scared to shoot. I mean, no man made no sense. And the one thing you need, you didn't. You didn't get it while you was off for a year. You need confidence.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

You're not confident in yourself. That's the one thing it takes to do anything in life. You got to be confident about what you're doing.

[Joe]

And I think with being Simmons, being a number one pick, Ocho, you know, that pressure. That pressure way a little different, bro. You know, we just keeping it 100. And in today's game, you know, he came in as a point guard, bro, a six, nine, six, ten point guard. And it's just in today's game, he's a prototypical guy who you will want on your team. You just want to. You. You want to know if he really thoroughly enjoys playing the game. Because his attributes, Ocho, on. On certain teams, bro, will help. Nah, he's not no scorer. He don't. But you talking about a 6, 9, 6 10, playmaker, rebounder, defender, you know, take. Take the number one pick thing away. Don't. Don't look at him trying. You know, he trying to give you 16 to 20 points a night. I think he can be a great Swiss army knife, bro on a team that's competitive. I think he can. I think he deserves another chance. He's only 29 years old. He looks like he's in phenomenal shape. He continues to work, you know, obviously get his mind right, get his head right. I think somebody take a chance, bro, and bring him in and give him a shot. I know, I know. I know how I ended, you know? You know, I know how I ended because of, you know, the teams that he's played with. And he just didn't look enthused about being there or playing at all.

[Ocho]

Yo, he don't love the game of basketball, Joe. Yeah, I know he don't love it. He's not. He's not infatuated with it, you know.

[Joe]

Well, hey, but sometimes. Sometimes being away from the game, though, you know, Uncle Ojo, it could.

[Tab Ramos]

It could.

[Joe]

It could bring that love back. Maybe. Maybe he's been away from it for a little while or long enough to where he like, damn, I really missed the game, bro. Like, I'm. I'm a really.

[Host]

He missed them checks. Let's be all the way. Real Joe. He missed them checks.

[Joe]

Those are big chicks, boy.

[Ocho]

Yeah, that's it. That's it on. That's it, huh?

[Host]

That would he miss. Hey, everybody was questioning your love for Joe. Hold on, Joe, you just told ocho and I 45 minutes ago, body language.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's a good one right there.

[Host]

His body language in Brooklyn. His body language.

[Joe]

It stinks. It stinks.

[Host]

Okay.

[Joe]

It stinks.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey, hey. While you was going, I told. I told Joe, man, ain't no point coming back if you're coming back with no confidence. If you ain't got no confidence, you're gonna look like you're gonna look like the same player you were. And 24, 25.

[Joe]

You know what? He don't have no confidence. But it's so funny, bro, when you watch this man work out. I've had the privilege to train with him.

[Host]

Play, play.

[Joe]

2 on 2, 3 on 3 with him. Uncle Oo and his jump shot ain't bad, bro. I just don't know why he has no confidence in shooting it. I really don't.

[Ocho]

It's easy when you're training three on three, one on one. It's easy when you're in the goddamn gym and ain't nobody there watching you. Ain't got nobody heckling you. It ain't no pressure. Yeah, it's easy.

[Joe]

You gotta.

[Ocho]

Can you do it under. Can you do it under the lights?

[Joe]

Hey, hey.

[Ocho]

Can you do it at home? Can you do it away? When they booing you?

[Joe]

You gotta start somewhere, bro. You gotta practice on it. You know what I mean? Like you. You really gotta hone in on your craft, dog. It's in him. He just gotta be willing to do it.

[Host]

29 years old.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey. Tell him come on out here to Miami.

[Host]

Okay. How long? Let me ask you a question, Joe. How long you think Ben Simmons been playing the game of basketball?

[Joe]

He probably been playing since he was about 10, 11.

[Host]

So for that, let's just say, for the sake of argument, for the better part of. Somewhere between 17 and 20 years. So basically, almost two decades. You're asking him to do something he didn't do in the first two. Two decades, but to do it now? He said the reason why. Did you read part of the article? He said, well, I wasn't confident in my shot, so I passed it off. Somebody was a better free throw. Yeah, I know you did. Yeah, that's what he Said, man, what

[Joe]

your man's doing, bro?

[Ocho]

Hey, Joe. Hey, Joe. This time I had you, Joe. Hey, in the low post.

[Joe]

We already seen you at work, bro.

[Host]

We.

[Joe]

You can't fool us no more. We didn't already seen you.

[Host]

Hey, Joe, you got feel motivated.

[Joe]

He can't fool me no more, huh?

[Ocho]

Hey, hey. But that's that. That footage old as hell. Hey, Joe. This is the new me. Joe.

[Host]

Joe. I would love. I would love to see him come back and. And salvage some part of it, but it's just hard it. Joe, you can't shoot at all. You're afraid to shoot. It's not like you said, Joe. You watched it work out. I've seen videos of him. He can shoot. He's afraid to shoot. I can't teach you how to swim if you're afraid of the water.

[Joe]

Hello? Hello.

[Host]

I. I just can't. I don't. I don't really know what else to say. How do you. How do you play? But you know what? It was Joe, because he was so talented, everybody kicked the ball down the road. His high school coach said, you know what? They'll fix whatever's broken once he get to college. And college said, well, hell, he ain't gonna be here for about a year. Let him fix that in the NBA and he gets to the NBA. It's the same thing with Tim Tebow, the throwing motion and the mechanics that he had. Everybody kicked the can down the road because he was so much talented. Now all of a sudden you're not the most talented, let alone you're not the most talented on your own team, and you damn sure not the most talented in the league. Now what do we do, O Joe?

[Joe]

Amen. I think the guy deserves no chance.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, I got no problem with that, Joe.

[Joe]

I got a problem. Yes, he does. Now. Now, matter of fact, hold on.

[Ocho]

When he gets another chance. We have to erase the expectations, though.

[Host]

That's the thing.

[Ocho]

Erase the expectations.

[Joe]

Well, it depends on what your expectations are.

[Ocho]

I mean,

[Host]

he was the number one overall draft.

[Joe]

That's what I'm saying.

[Ocho]

And he can play. He can play defense and facilitate.

[Joe]

Cause look, you gotta understand, for a guy who don't shoot, bro, he probably ain't gonna get you. But about. Probably maybe eight points, maybe 10 points. And you know, he'll probably have about six boys, six assists. You know what I mean? That's why I would say use him as a Swiss army knife. Hopefully. You know, he has that re.

[Host]

That, that, that.

[Joe]

That passion, that, that, that rejoicefulness. For the game to where he comes back and want to prove himself, bro. I mean, outside of that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Ocho]

Hey, Uncle Joe. Hey, Joe. If he want to prove himself after being the number one pick, ain't nothing else. Ain't nothing else gonna happen.

[Joe]

I mean, listen, he did. He. He still won Rookie of the Year. His game just never evolved over the years. Like, man, you just can't be no damn 6, 9, 6, 10 point guard, and you can't get us no bucket.

[Host]

But that's what he's being.

[Joe]

Nah.

[Ocho]

And it ain't. It ain't changing it.

[Host]

You know what a pilot light is, right? You ever had one of those? He had. The pilot light is burning.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

When the pilot light go out, what you got to do

[Joe]

when the pilot light go out?

[Host]

Pilot light out. Pilot light out.

[Joe]

Joe, are you saying he can't restart it? He can't,

[Host]

but I'm with Ocho on this one. Doing. What is your expectations? You know what happens, Joe? You never outlive your draft status. So wherever you. Wherever you were selected, that's what. That's what people. That's how people look at you.

[Joe]

Him.

[Host]

He was the number one over. Was Jason Tatum in that draft or Markel's, folks? Which one of those guys was in that draft? I know. I think Donovan Mitchell.

[Joe]

Yeah, Donovan Mitchell was.

[Host]

Donovan Mitchell came after him because they thought. Donovan Mitchell thought he should have won because he said this man already been.

[Joe]

Yeah, no, no. Yeah, Donovan Mitchell was in that draft. I mean, Donovan average, like.

[Host]

No, no, no. He. He came. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

But he was still considered a rookie.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, but did he come. Did he come in with. Did he come in with Bi. Or did he come in with Jason Tatum?

[Joe]

Damn. I. I don't think he came in with Jason Tatum,

[Host]

Ash. What? Who's in that draft?

[Tab Ramos]

Huh?

[Host]

Okay, hold on. Ben Simmons was 1. Brandon Ingram was 2. Jalen Brown was 3. Dragon. Dragon Bender was 4. Chris Dunn was 5. Buddy Hill, 6. Jamal Murray, 7. Marquis, Chris, 8. Jacob Pearl was 9.

[Joe]

Hey,

[Host]

I mean, all things being said, you can make a case that Jalen Brown has been the best player in that game. Hey, Jamal Murray. I mean, look. Jamal Murray, Brandon Ingram and Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown is, you know, Jaylen Brown. And, and, and, and, and, And Murray both have won titles. JB's better. Finals MVP and an Eastern Conference MVP.

[Ocho]

But.

[Host]

Yeah, because if I'm not mistaken, what you call him came out.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Host]

Siakam was 27. And what you Call them Demontes Sabonis. So that meant Ingram came out the next. I mean, JT came out.

[Joe]

He came out with Donovan, Mitchell, him and Donald Mitchell in the same draft. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, now, because that so that, that so that have been. That would have been the draft. That Marquell folks. Lonzo ball.

[Joe]

Nah, that ain't that draft and what you call it.

[Host]

You sure?

[Joe]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

That was that draft, right.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's, that's a good draft right there, boy.

[Joe]

But yeah, no Donovan average. He averaged about 20 that year, and I think, I think Ben Simmons only averaged like 16 or 17 or something like that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And he still won rookie of the year. Yeah.

[Host]

So I wish you the best, Joe. Like you. I, I, I just. Hopefully he's healthy. You know, he had issue with back and we've all had. I don't know, Ocho. You say you ain't really had no back problems, Joe, I know you've had a little back problem. I've had some back problems. That ain't nothing to be played.

[Joe]

It ain't nothing to be played with, Unc. But I noticed, I, I know cats who had that low back problem and ain't really had problem. See, you can't dictate, you know, if you're a doctor or something, looking at somebody low back, you don't know if he really hurting or not. You know what I mean? I'm telling you because I know guys

[Host]

who I'm talking about, they got family injuries.

[Joe]

Man, listen, you. Hey, look.

[Ocho]

Hey, man, what. Nothing wrong with him, man.

[Joe]

I don't know, Joe. I don't know.

[Ocho]

He pulling the willow of our eyes. Hey, Joe. Uncle Joe, man, he don't want to shoot. He don't want to shoot the ball. He under the goal. He passing it back out to somebody. He wide open. He don't want to go through the free throw line.

[Host]

Like, we trust the process. And the process was some. Because think about it. They had Markel's folks number one overall, Ben Simmons number one overall. I think they had Joel Embiid, like number three. That was the process, man.

[Ocho]

Hey, can you imagine if he had Kobe mentality? I'm not saying he can't.

[Joe]

You can't have everything, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Hey, yeah, Joe.

[Host]

That's why you can't make the man 16 with that mentality, Ocho.

[Ocho]

I mean, just the mentality. The mentality like Jordan.

[Host]

That's the case. Just imagine if Kobe was 69.

[Ocho]

That's nasty.

[Host]

The hell I don't know.

[Tab Ramos]

Just.

[Ocho]

Just like, just had.

[Host]

Oh, okay. What if Steph Curry was 67?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Okay, how about this? Okay, Not. Not the Kobe mentality, but just have some dog in him. He ain't got no dog in it.

[Joe]

That come from training, though. Oo. Like, look, I don't know about y'. All.

[Ocho]

You can't train to be no dog. You see. You see Castle over there with the Spurs? That ain't training. That's already in. You either you got it or you don't.

[Joe]

You can't train for the work that you put in. Should result in you gaining a lot of confidence, bro.

[Ocho]

Joe, he been playing basketball since, what, four years old? Four, five.

[Tab Ramos]

But you got.

[Joe]

You might not be putting the work in. You might. You know, you got to really love it. Oo.

[Host]

Oh, so he. You. So you might. You said he might be mistaken habit for hard work because he go to the gym every day and get up 50, 100, 100, 200 shots. He working hard. Oh, that might not have it hard work, Joe.

[Ocho]

Hey, he don't love the game.

[Joe]

Hey, if you ain't got that love and passion for it, bro, you might well keep it moving straight up.

[Host]

Hey, for your sake. Oh, Joe. I want to see him get back in the league and see if he could. He could re. Salvage something. Like you said, He's 29 years of age. 29 years of age. And I think he'll probably get a shot, Joe. I think he'll get a shot at 16.

[Ocho]

He gonna make it worse. He gonna make it worse. So people gonna be on. If you. If you think they was on your head before you done took a year off, and you come back and still playing the same way, and you shot. Don't want to shoot, man. They gonna kill you. You already ain't had no confidence, and you come back and you come back and doing the same damn thing.

[Joe]

Look, look, you're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna have to get out the mud for real, because get what you. If I'm your agent. Yeah. I can get you in training camp, and they may have a spot open, but here, they ain't gonna just give it to you. You're gonna have to earn it.

[Host]

No, I guarantee you.

[Joe]

Think about it. I think. Hell, I think it's Agent Rich Paul, if I ain't mistaken.

[Host]

I don't know if he's still with Rich.

[Joe]

Oh, he might not still be with him, but I'm sure Rich can get him on a squad. He can get him on a. On the training camp deal. Not promise him nothing, but, you know, hey, you go in there and impress him. Yeah. You make the team. Look, hey, hey, hey. Look at Landry Shannon. Hell, he just got him a new deal and he was on a training camp deal with no guarantee.

[Host]

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[Host]

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