Advertisement Voice (3:16)

Foreign.

Hayley Carania (3:19)

Thank you so much for being here. I am fascinated by all of this. I saw your video. I thought I have to get her on the show. So thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

Amy Souza (3:29)

Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure.

Hayley Carania (3:32)

So my first question to you is about this trans ideology in general, because what we're seeing now is that it's different from other mental health problems like anorexia or something that is treated. Transgenderism isn't treated. It is affirmed. Why do you think that is?

Amy Souza (3:58)

Well, in short, I think it is a strategic business model, as you say, for other folks, for other issues that have to do with a. Any kind of body dysmorphia is what I would more call it, you know, an anorexia, where there's a thin person who, who thinks they are fat or schizophrenic who thinks they're Napoleon or other body integrity issues. There, there are known body integrity issues that have to do with people wanting to cut off healthy limbs or even blind themselves with bleach. These are delusions of body integrity and we do not affirm them. But there is a, an affirmation only model when it comes to anything having to do with transgenderism. And this is very new. The. The diagnosis of gender dysphoria was only put into the Diagnostic and statistical manual, the DSM, in 2013 or 2015. So before this, there was an issue of gender identity disorder, and before that it was transvestism, which was pretty much solely an adult male issue of paraphilia. And so this, this has transformed and transformed and transformed. And I think it's pretty clear that this is an issue of insurance. This is an issue of creating a market that did not previously exist. And this is about selling drugs, puberty blockers, wrong sex hormones and surgeries and creating the notion of the quote, unquote, trans child. Before, as I said, this was pretty much a solely adult male issue. And now we are seeing this swath of children who are supposedly, you know, having some sort of an issue. But I think this is more, more about marketing and more about corralling symptoms into a diagnosis than it is about, you know, the notion that any kids are Quote, unquote, born in the wrong body. No, no one is born wrong. We are, we are our bodies, we're just embodied.

Hayley Carania (6:23)

Absolutely. And you know, we're seeing this now where therapists are. Maybe this is coming from big Pharma and it's kind of this like top down thing and we can talk to some of the global issues that are happening later on. But it seems like, okay, maybe this is coming down from big pharma. Therapists are buying into it. And then, you know, a transgender person or someone with this kind of dysphoria goes into a therapist's office and says, I want to, you know, chop my penis off or I want to make one out of my forearm. How many therapist sessions does it take to sign off on some kind of gender affirming surgery, as they call it?

Amy Souza (7:05)

Not as many as you would think and not as many as we would all hope. These, the, they're, you know, it really depends on the therapist that you go to and the endocrinologist that you go to. If you go to an endocrinologist, they're going to ask likely for a referral from a therapist. But the amount of time that you have to spend with that therapist is speculatory. There is right now a woman called Dr. Helen Weather Weberly. She previously had a practice in the UK that was shut down because of regulatory concerns. But of course now she is opening in the US and the main protocol for her prescriptions are interacting with an AI telemed health prompter. So she is selling prescriptions for these ongoing drugs for 2999amonth. And you really only have to interact with AI over this. And yeah, so this, it's all very concerning and there is, you know, an incredible market for it.

Hayley Carania (8:21)

Yeah, so it's pretty cheap. I mean, in terms of other. I mean, people are paying way more money for GLP1s and Ozempic and things like that. So you're telling me that you can just log on, do a telehealth meeting with a therapist and get gender affirming drugs and drugs that change your hormones and disrupt your endocrine system? I mean, this is very dangerous.

Amy Souza (8:45)

Yeah.

Hayley Carania (8:46)

Wow.

Amy Souza (8:46)

These are being sold all over. I, as I said to you on the phone when we spoke, Planned Parenthood are themselves now the number two provider of quote unquote, gender affirming medicine. So, so they, they are providing also puberty blockers and opposite sex hormones for people who want them. And again, there is very little oversight. If you listen to D transitioners or sometimes they call themselves trans medical regretters. There are a young, a swath of young people who are reaching a kind of maturity that they hadn't been to in the past and are regretting these medical decisions that they have been pushed down. They're being pushed down these paths and are now testifying over this regret because they, they come to their doctors with, as I said, a swath of comorbidities. You know, for young girls that is often sexual abuse. A lot of these young people who are led down this path have autism spectrum disorders. There's also a lot of internalized homophobia for young gay, butch women. So there's a lot of different comorbidities. And then they're sold this notion that, you know, this is all because they're born in the wrong body and that this, this, these medical interventions, whether it's drugs or surgery, are going to solve their mental health issues, which is ridiculous. You can't, you can't solve an emotional mental crisis with a superficial body change. You know, like, like a nose job is not going to make you have self esteem. If, if self esteem is your issue, you know, it may give you a different nose, but I was not going to help you.

Hayley Carania (10:45)

Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Are there similarities between the body dysmorphia that trans people experience and then people who just hate their bodies so they get plastic surgery to fix, like a nose, for example, or a boob job or something? Like, I feel like I, I've seen this narrative, you know, I think it was. Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett was asked in an interview, like, what's the difference between, like, why do, why do Republicans hate gender affirming care when they'll get boob jobs and lip filler? You know, so that's like kind of the narrative that I think is being pushed and, you know, but is there an actual similarity between people who are trans and want to change their body and then people who are just insecure and want to change their body?

Amy Souza (11:34)

There's definitely overlap. I think we can observe that both issues are about perceptual control. You know, I want to control how other people perceive my body and myself. You know, I, I, we didn't talk about, I maybe would talk about this, but I, for the last two years, I went through breast cancer. And one of the things that I did during my breast cancer journey, and for every woman it's different, is I really prized sensation. I wanted to save my breast. I wanted to save the sensation because the more, the bigger the, the you Know, from lumpectivity to mastectomy, you are going to lose sensation. And they kept selling me this idea that, you know, we, we want you to get the mastectomy because they're trying to sell you the notion that this is, you know, the absolute safest route for you. And that they would give me this amazing plastic surgery afterwards and that maybe I would even like my breasts even more than I, than I liked them before. And I just noted to them, you know, when I'm in the world, I'm looking out, you know, I'm interacting with my environment. I am not, I am not the one who's looking down at my breasts. Other people are looking at me. So it's a, it's a self objectification. And it's also again, a kind of control over how others perceive me. I feel myself. I wanted to, to, to save as much sensation for myself, for my own experiencing as I could. And we know for the stats of women who get breast augmentation, they are two to three times more likely than their cohorts to commit suicide. Wow. And this figure simply tells us that when you get a surgery thinking that it is going to solve your mental emotional issues, it's simply not the case.

Hayley Carania (13:46)

Yeah.

Amy Souza (13:46)

You know, and a lot of times those people who go down whichever path, whether it's the, the gender medicine path or like a, a nose job or a breast job or something like this, you kind of are in that, you know, we have that colloquial phrase, wherever you go, there you are. And you think this is going to solve your mental emotional issues. When you've done no skill building, you know, you've learned, no, you've learned no new tools to process your painful emotions. You know, you haven't built any new tools around how you are going to interact with others. Yeah, this is simply an external, abandoned, cosmetic, superficial procedure. And it doesn't give you a new sense of self. And I think these kids are being also told, you know, if I don't, if I'm rejecting my sex, I think of this as sex rejection. For whatever reason, you know, I am rejecting the fact that I'm female. Maybe that's because of sexual trauma or I'm rejecting the fact that I'm male. Maybe that's internalized homophobia. And because of that sex rejection, I think, think it is going to grass is greener on the other side. Be better to be perceived as the opposite sex. And this ideology is teaching. You need people to validate you. You need people to participate in your pronoun. Rituals, you need to literally have them refer to you in the third person when you're not even in the room. You need this, this hyper perceptual control that, that you are constantly trying to. I mean, that. That's a lot to manage.

Hayley Carania (15:30)

You know, I've never thought about it like that. It's fascinating that it's, it's this need for control, and not only control over your own body, but control over others around you. That is fascinating. But you brought up an interesting point about internalized homophobia. And it's interesting because I've covered stories and videos on this show where it was a man who dresses as a woman, and he is now what he calls a lesbian. And he's celebrating like Happy Lesbian Day or whatever. I'm like, you're taking extra steps to be straight. You're just straight. You're straight. But like, now you get extra things. So when you have. Or when a man has internalized homophobia, for example, they go through this transgender surgery so that they become. They become women, technically in their mind, and then it'll be okay for them to then date men and find men attractive. However, we're talking about this increased suicide rate, right? When you. What's counterintuitive and what I don't think that these people are understanding and certainly their therapists are not explaining to them, is that when it would easy, it would be easier to be gay than it would to date. Be to date as a trans person. Because if you're a trans woman who is, you know, if I'm a woman and I want to, I'm attracted to men, but now I'm going to transition to a man. Why would a man want to date me? Why would a gay man want to date me? I'm not even a real man.

Amy Souza (17:10)

Why.

Hayley Carania (17:10)

Why would a straight man want to date me? He wants to date a woman. He doesn't want to date a woman who's dressed as a man. Like, it just makes it impossible to find companionship almost.

Amy Souza (17:20)

Yeah. And just even, you know, listening to you talk about this, there's so much confusion. And the, the marketing, the marketing, the marketing around this ideology would like us to believe that this is an umbrella group of people when really it is really disparate kinds of people in very disparate kinds of circumstances that are all being corralled into this umbrella, but they are, they do not have anything in common. The man who has internalized homophobia and is choosing a path of femaleness to, to, to distance himself from the, the label of being a gay than the straight man who is auto sexualizing himself because of whatever, you know, sissy, hypno. I don't know if I can say the word porn here, but no porn. Notion of himself as a sexualized woman who wants to date women. He's very much a straight man with what we would have normally called transvestism. You know, and a lot of. We know from studies on serial killers, a lot of serial killers had transvestic paraphilic disorders. Yeah. And this is a kind of aggressive paraphilia. And that kind of straight man is very different from a gay man who is running from his own internalized homophobia. These two men, they do not have, you know, things in common, but the trans umbrella makes appear. It's like a, you know, an abracadabra, a smoke and mirrors that, a linguistic ploy that makes it appear as if these two are the same. And these two have nothing in common, as I said, with the young girl who is looking at the pornified world and the hypersexualization of women and, you know, possibly has sexual abuse in her past and just simply does not want anyone to sexualize her like that or. Or touch her in a way that she no longer, you know, where she doesn't want to be touched and wants to cut off her breasts. You know, there's stories of Prisha Mosley, the d. Transitioner, has spoken about this publicly, that she didn't want adult men to touch her breasts. She cut them off. You know, that these. And these. These categories of people have nothing in common but by. They are being corralled by. By medical marketing to be. To be seen under the same umbrella when really they are. They are disparate kind of people with disparate kind of issues happening to them.

Hayley Carania (20:18)

It's interesting because, you know, there's statistics that show that it's three to one where it's more men transitioning to women than it is women transitioning to men. And you were explained that a lot of the times when women do it, it's because of some kind of a trauma. When men do it, it's some kind of a devious sexual fetish in a way that is interesting, like the ties between that and the porn industry. And how long has this been going on? Because people in the transgender community will argue that, oh, well, transgenders have been around since the dawn of time, but it's gotten way more prevalent now. So do you think that that's directly tied to the porn industry? And do you think that it's more so targeted in the US or is it a global thing now? You're a homeowner in America. You need to listen to this. The FBI has been warning about a type of real estate fraud on the rise called title theft and your equity is the target. Here's how it works. Criminals for your signature on a single document and they use a fake notary stamp and file it with the county and just like that on record they own your home using your ownership. They can take out loans against your equity or even sell your property and you won't even know about it until foreclosure or collection notices show up in the mail. That is why I have partnered with Home Title Lock so you could protect your equity and find out today if you're already a victim. Use my code scroll at home title lock.com and you will get a free title history report and free 14 day trial of their million dollar triple lock protection that is 247 monitoring of your title records, urgent alerts to any changes and if fraud occurred their US based restoration team will spend up to $1 million to fix it. This is why I tell all of my friends who who have houses because I don't have a house yet but everyone in my family they are covered by Home Title Lock. Please protect yourself. Don't be a victim. Protect your equity today. That is home title lock.com promo code scroll or use the link below. Paid subscription after the 14 day trial ends and you can cancel at any time. Ladies and gentlemen time is running out on the early Thanksgiving sale from our dear friends at Genuine Cell. Don't wait. Go to jennycel.com and get their brand new Neckline Lift essentials package for over 70% off. Get rid of the turkey neck and sagging neckline and get compliments all around the dinner table. And when you order today Genucel will include their immediate effects for results many see in just minutes not hours. Plus the top selling Genicel deep firming Vitamin C serum included in the essentials package. You will give thanks this holiday for 10 years off your appearance and everyone will see the difference guaranteed or 100 of your money back. That is the Jenny Cell promise. Go to jennycel.com scroll jennycel.com scroll and from now until Thanksgiving you can. You'll also get their brand new Gua Sha massager with red light therapy to help amplify your results and shipping is also free. Use my code at checkout scroll for an extra 10% off jennucel.com scroll genucel.com scroll.

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Amy Souza (24:01)

Okay, so, well, first things first. Yes, it's absolutely tied to the porn industry. And anyone who wants to research more about this can go find. Genevieve Gluck of Redux magazine has reported extensively on this. She even has reported that one of the, you know, experts who sat on the committee of the DSM for the creation of the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, this is a man God, Thomas Kerr. He's a former Chico, Chico State professor. He is also a formative member of a webnick archive that, that tells sexual tales of sexualizing child eunuch stories. So there's a lot of sexologists and men involved who are, yes, very, very much sexualizing this issue. And it is very related to porn. And even all of these surgeries, you know, top surgery, bottom surgery, these are pornified terms. And these surgeries themselves, breast augmentation itself, just breast augmentation pushed on women that is originative from porn. And the other thing is through prostitution. So, you know, a lot of times they want to talk about, yeah, trans has always existed because of cultures like Thailand's ladyboy or the Hera or the mues of Mexico, that these things have already always existed. But this is simply the sexualization of effeminate men who have been pushed into prostitution roles. And we see a lot of this in, you know, sex tourism that has been going on in other countries where these kind of boys have been pushed into this. And again, so I think that's, that's how we have started to push it on a little bit the, the young men here. But again, this, this has traditionally been an adult male fetish. And women have been speaking out about this for, you know, as long as it has existed. There's a, a great book written in the seventies by Janice Raymond called the Transsexual Empire, where she is observing it in her own time when it was still transvestism and trend and critiquing these men's appropriation of womanhood. So almost as long as it has existed. Women have been critiquing it and calling it out that this is socially maladaptive, this is toxic behavior. This is out of alignment with what is in integrity with our humanity and our species drives. You know, this is just as taboo and paraphilic as, you know, serial killing. This, this is not a path for humanity. This, this is a. A disease of the mind. And, and Jung famously has spoken about this. That's kind of the background of the psychology that I study where he says far more dangerous than the diseases of the body are diseases of the mind. And if they say this has, quote, unquote, always existed, you know, I would say, you know, this is. Then this is like the polio of the mind or the, or the black plague of the mind. This is absolutely a disease of the mind, regardless of how long people have been falling prey to this disease.

Hayley Carania (27:55)

And is it more prevalent in the United States or is this, are we seeing this in Europe and are we seeing this in other areas of the world Now?

Amy Souza (28:04)

I think in terms of prevalence in the United States, we have the most gender clinics, so we are profiting by it the most. But this is absolutely a global issue. This is being pushed by the United Nations. There's a woman called K. Yang who has reported about this. This is in the 2025 sustainability goals for the UN. Gender in the UN is not sex. It is an identity. And this is being pushed in all 193 of their member nations. I sit, I'm a signatory, part of an organization called Women's Declaration International. And they have. We have weekly meetings where there are panel women of all different countries. If you look at the amount of signatories we have, there are signatories of women from 137 countries who are all fighting this in different ways in our own countries. So this is very much a global issue. I think it is very loud in the west here in the United States. I have colleagues and friends in Canada who call themselves Tranada because I think it is even more insidious there in some ways in terms of how it has been legalized in their government. There are cases, I have friends in Australia. A woman named Sal Grover is famously in a fight with a man. She owns a. What do you call it, a social media app called Giggle in a Battle with a Man because she is recognizing him as a man. It's a female only app and he has been disallowed from being on the app. But he has sued her and for. He's won the first case. They're going to take it to the higher courts that she is being forced to legally agree that he is a woman.

Hayley Carania (30:06)

And it is in so many areas. It's the, the laws on the books. We saw this recently in Gold's Gym in la. In California. You can identify as whatever you want. You can get it change on your driver's license, on your passport, whatever. By the government standards, you are what you say you are. So therefore some of these companies or these apps or whatever, they are beholden to the laws on the books. Otherwise they're going to get, you know, sued or, or maybe they be. They go bankrupt, they go out of business. I mean, that is a real fear also. So it's like this is a social contagion that now the government is pushing. And now it's like, well, the government tells you that you have to believe in this transgender ideology.

Amy Souza (30:49)

Yeah. I mean, Amnesty International famously, famously had a campaign called you. I am what I say I am and I am what I say I am is the absolute opposite of safeguarding. You know, we know that the, the classic 16th century tale of Little Red Riding Hood is exactly for girls to be able to prize their instincts and, and their intuition. To have a stranger tell women and kids, trust my identity before trusting your own instincts. That's predatory.

Hayley Carania (31:28)

Yes.

Amy Souza (31:29)

In the tale Little Red Riding Hood, her problem is not that she doesn't see him. She sees him. She says, you know, what big eyes you have, what big ears you have, what big teeth you have. The problem for her is not that she doesn't see what is in front of her. The problem is that she allows herself to be conned by him. She allows him to manipulate her out of being responsive to those instincts. So instead of seeing the wolf and running, she allows herself to be manipulated. Oh, you know, the better to see you with, the better to hear you with, the better to. And that's what's happening culturally. We see that's a man. Everyone can see when, when Tish Hyman made that scene, that is a man. There are dicks in the locker room. And she's getting so upset. It's because it's so obvious. We see you, we see that you're a man. And we are all, especially women and kids being led into a safeguarding issue because we can see it's a man who is violating our boundaries. And we are trapped in a linguistic manipulation where they say, well, I feel like a woman. Well, I don't feel safe with other men. Well, I have a mental issue. Well, women and girls are Not a mental health treatment. Access to women and girls in states of undress is not a mental health treatment. And women and girls are not responsible to bear the burden for men who, for whatever diverse set of reasons, are dissociating from their own sex. Nor are we some sort of human shield. You know, they'll. They'll also often say, you know, well, I don't feel safe with the other men. You know, I'm not safe in there.

Hayley Carania (33:10)

Well, well, now we're not safe.

Amy Souza (33:13)

Not women's responsibility. That is not our responsibility to keep you safe from male. On male violence.

Hayley Carania (33:22)

Right. Yeah. We are not props.

Amy Souza (33:24)

We are not props for you. We are not human shields.

Hayley Carania (33:27)

Yeah. And I think a lot of the time these adults, they are preying on children because they're vulnerable, they're impressionable. They, you know, if a man says, well, I'm a woman and you have to call me a woman, a young kid is going to say, well, okay, you know, we're told to respect our elders and listen to our teachers and listen to adults and whatever. So then they force this delusion on kids. It's control and it's abuse. And I know it's not necessarily physical sexual abuse all the time, but is there a link there between this kind of predatory and pedophilic behavior?

Amy Souza (34:06)

Yeah, absolutely. There's a great book by Gavin de Becker called the Gift of Fear. Right. And the, the whole point of the book is to say that that intuition, that the root of the word intuition is to guard, to protect, to stay grounded in your instincts is the best safeguarding you have. So to manipulate kids into no longer trusting the signals of their own body. So to say to a kid who looks at maybe a teacher and is like, you're. You're a man. And he's like, oh, no, you have to call me Ms. Thomas. You have to refer to me as a woman. You. I am a woman. I am a woman. And this literally confuses kids about the ability to trust the signals of their own body. When kids go through their language acquisition phase, that language acquisition of like 2ish, 3ish, you know, they're naming and claiming, they're saying, you know, mommy, that's a bird. And the mom's like, yeah, that's a bird, and, daddy, that's a tree. And, yeah, that's a tree. But it isn't just about language acquisition. It's about naming and claiming. It's about learning to trust the authority of your own body to tell you the truth about the world. That kid is Saying, that's a bird. And, and my body is telling me the truth. I see, that's a bird. I know that's a bird, that's a tree. My body is telling me the truth. I can trust that. The signals of my body to keep me safe and tell me the truth about the world. And now there is a whole swath of adults saying, no, you can't trust the signals of your own body. This is a massive safeguarding failure on an epic scale. And anything, this is where I go back to Gavin de Becker. Anything that introduces a dissociation from one's body and from being able to trust one's body. Anything that introduces a cognitive loophole where instead of trusting my body, now I'm in a think, now I'm. Instead of responding to my instincts, now I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. That's a dissociation from being responsive. And anything that introduces that is going to be a safeguarding failure and leaves a child vulnerable to future predation.

Hayley Carania (36:39)

No, you go ahead.

Amy Souza (36:40)

Well, he observes that no other animal on the planet would do this. Every other animal on the planet who, you know, animals that, that raise, rear and raise their young. Other mammals, let's say, are teaching their young to hone their instincts to, to stay grounded in their instincts, to be better and better at, better at being responsive to their instincts. And, and humans are the only animal that are stupid enough to tell themselves and their kids, don't, don't listen to your instincts. Disregard your own instincts.

Hayley Carania (37:14)

We're talking about these trans influencers now that have gained so much popularity. Dylan Mulvaney comes to mind. Lily Tino, even trans people hate Lil Tino. I think the trans community likes Dylan Mulvaney, but they really hate Lilitino. I don't know if Lili Tino is actually trans or, you know, is just an actual predator who, who is actually trans. Right. But I'm saying, like, I think Dylan Mulvaney believes it. I don't think that Lily Tino even believes that. I think he's actually pretending, you know, to get clicks or to be an influencer or something. Like it just seems like, because even the trans community hates him because he goes into the bathrooms in Disney World. And you know, when Dylan Mulvaney transitioned, he did this whole Tick Tock series on the days of girlhood. It's day one of being a girl. It's day 300 of being a girl. Why are adult men becoming girls? Why do. Why does Lily Tino wear girls clothing? And then Go into the girls bathroom at Disney World. What, what is happening there?

Amy Souza (38:27)

Fetish and the normalization and desensitization of boundary violations. And Lily, Tino is just as much trans as anyone who claims to be trans. He, he is, he is a hundred percent. If anyone is trans. I mean, no one is trans.

Hayley Carania (38:43)

No one is.

Amy Souza (38:43)

Right? But everyone, every, you know, everyone who claims, who makes that claim is, has 100% right to that claim as much as anyone else. So I don't like when, when the community disavows him. I mean, I, I disavow that any. But if anyone is, he is just as much it as anyone. So I don't like when anyone tries to distance themselves from it. Like if, if, if it's, if it, if it is as Amnesty International says, I am who I say I am, he is it. And Dylan Mulvaney is also a performer. You know, he is an actor with many failed attempts at being a social media influencer. Like if, you know, a lot of his social media is scrubbed, but people have it out there. He has a lot of failed attempts at doing gimmicks, doing gambits to gain popularity. I mean, he is following in a long line of gay men who have made careers, drag queens out of becoming a female Persona. You know, there, there's a long history of men who have made lots of money, RuPaul out of taking on a female Persona. The fact that he has medicalized around this is simply what is popular now.

Hayley Carania (39:56)

And yes, women allow it, right? Women allow this to become popular culture. It never happens the other way around. You never see men welcoming trans men with open arms. Which is funny because it all just boils down to the fact that we are two very different beings. Like we are the same, we are humans, but female and male are very different and have different tendencies. It's funny to talk about.

Amy Souza (40:21)

And Lilithino has videos where he very specifically says, what I am trying to do is to normalize men in the women's bathroom. Of course he says trans women, but he specifically says, I am trying to normalize this behavior. The, the formula, the little quickhand formula for grooming is the normalization plus desensitization of increasing boundary violations. So this is the, the, the frog being slow boiled over time. And culturally we are all being groomed and women especially are being groomed. And a psychological phenomenon called an empathy trap. Now our empathy is an instinct. We have a natural involuntary, empathetic wince response. This is what comes up. You know, you see someone take a hard fall and you Go, ooh, ooh, that looks like it hurts. That is our natural empathetic wince response. But like all of our instincts, instincts can be hijacked by ideology, by marketing and the specific. The, the empath often gets in the way of the sociopath because empaths care. You know, someone who's apathetic simply doesn't care. But an empath, which women, more women are empaths than, than men. The empath cares. So the derailment, what we, we should naturally wince at women having their boundary violated. We should naturally wince at kids having unnecessary surgery or their puberty blocked. We should wince at the chem. Lupron is a chemical castration drug. That's a puberty blocker. We should wince at the chemicals castration of kids. But there's an empathy trap that's happening because there's this notion of born in the wrong body or trust who I say I am. And women have been long supporters of gay men. You know, I, I have gay male besties. You know, I, I, I have a, you know, I, I did a lot of theater when I was coming up and I, you know, this is, they think, you know, we have there, there's a forced teaming, another manipulation tactic where they're trying to put two things together that are unrelated. You know, any sexual denialism is harmful to gay and lesbians, you know, because they are same sex oriented. So to force lesbians to, for example, try to date men, this is highly, you know, abusive to them. But this, this, this is the empathy trap that is being created where women are, you know, being, they are more easily manipulated into showing empathy for what is being marketed to us as some sort of marginalized group right now. I, the more you observe this, the more you see this is top down manipulation and creation and, and manufacture this, this is the manufacture of an idea. This is not the organic uprising of a grassroots movement. That, this is not that.

Hayley Carania (43:30)

You know, you made a distinction earlier between serial killers and transgender ideology. So let's unpack that because we have been seeing an uptick in violence and school shootings actually being carried out by transgender people or people with this gender dysphoria or some sort of something. I mean, clearly anyone who does carries out this kind of violence is mentally ill in some capacity. But there seems to be a link between transgenderism and school shootings. And we saw this in Nashville. The Covenant school shooting was carried out by a transgender woman. And the Assumption school shooting in Minneapolis was carried out also by a trans man. So what do you think is happening?

Amy Souza (44:15)

Here, you know, this, this is where we're getting into like some spicy territory. And I'm sure we're going to get pushback because they're going to be like, you're saying all, all trans people are violent predators. Well, you know, no, some, some people are traumatized people who are just going along with this for whatever reasons of, of their own. However, the ideology itself creates a really good petri dish for these kind of explosive behaviors. So in this petri dish of trans ideology, the kind of thinking that is happening is a one, the drugs themselves are impacting your endocrine system, which has to do with a lot of physical and emotional processes, including emotional regulation. So your, your cognitive capacity to, to think critically is impacted and your emotional regulation capacity is also impacted. And you know, if you do listen, you know, quote unquote, listen to trans people, you can see, you know, where they're self reporting on Reddit and a lot of places that they are self reporting. They will talk about, you know, having extreme explosive behavior happening to them because of these drugs that they are on. So that, that's in the petri dish. Now also in the petri dish is the, the, the messaging, the, the messaging coming from culture about validation. You have to validate the, the emotional messaging of affirmation only. The emotional messaging pronouns. The emotional messaging of if you do not affirm my identity, you are erasing my existence. The emotional messaging of if you do not affirm my identity, I'm going to commit suicide. The emotional messaging of do you want a trans daughter or a dead son? This, this emotional messaging is also in the petri dish. And this notion that these, especially for these young people, that they have the capacity to control other people's perception. I am not under idea that I am controlling anyone's perception. And when I talk about this all the time, people are like, well, you look like a man or you're ugly, or you're this or you're that. That's on them. You know, you, you can think, you can think whatever you want about me because I know the only person who can validate me is me. I am the only person who can affirm me. I am the only person who can, who is responsible for my own self esteem. I have not given, I have not given up my own sovereignty and autonomy for my own emotional mental well being. But these kids have, they have completely given up their sovereignty and their autonomy to take care of their own emotional needs. And they have been told constantly, constantly, constantly online, social media, Hollywood, public education that, that you have to control other people's perception. So if someone doesn't see you as the, you know, identity that you claim you are, and we, you see this all the time on social media. These, these just absolute massive breakdowns. When I ordered my coffee, I mean, can you imagine? You know, like. And I remember, I remember once, you know, when I was a little girl, you know, and I had that, you know, I'm, I'm of a Gen X and I had a little Dorothy Hamill wedge and I was getting my hair cut and like someone said, you know, someone came in and was like, oh, I want my son's haircut. Just like that little boy, you know, and it hurt my feelings and I cried and I was like, you know, mommy, I want to grow my hair long. And she was like, she just liked your haircut. You know, nothing bad happened to you. You're okay. You know, it's just you haven't gone through puberty yet. You know, you kids, kids, you know, you're, you're a little kid and little kids look like other little kids and.

Hayley Carania (48:30)

Yeah, but these trans adults, they have that kind of infantilized reaction. It's kind of, they've been emotionally stunted in some way. But I want to ask you about some of these drugs that they go on. Are they, you know, because they say that there are life saving drugs, but if they're going on some kind of a hormone therapy, can that make them violent?

Amy Souza (48:55)

I don't think it, I would, I would sort of nuance that out a little bit. I don't think it makes people who are otherwise emotionally regulated and healthy violent. But I do think. Gets in the way. Just like even like something like sugar, you know, like you give a kid sugar and you see them just like go crazy. They have like crazy energy and like sometimes, you know, if they're in a good mood, you know, maybe they're, maybe if they're in a good mood, their sugar high is just about, you know, running around being a happy crazy person. But if they are not in a good mood, if they are already overtired, if they are already, you know, in a, you know, they've been awake from, you know, 4:00am and they know they're going to go to, you know, Christmases tomorrow and then they'll have a meltdown. So I think these, these drugs.

Hayley Carania (49:56)

They.

Amy Souza (49:56)

Do interrupt your normal regulation capacities. And so if you are already in a place where you are vulnerable and you are upset and you are angry at the world because the world keeps telling you no you know, especially like, think about some of these younger men. They have been sold that they can change sex and that they're gonna, you know, they're gonna be women now and they're just gonna like, get access and the world is gonna treat them like a soft, vulnerable woman. And the world is looking at them and being like, no, sir. And women are saying, we don't want you and we don't claim you and you're not one of us. And, and, and the thing that you've been sold and the, the drugs are dysregulating you and you've been sold this idea that, that you are entitled to be treated like this, you know, and that's when we see the, like, it's ma', am, and he's, he's knocking over things. And you know, there's a, you know, in the gender critical community of which I'm a part, there's a little joke of like, you know, tell, tell a trans woman no. And see the man come out.

Hayley Carania (51:00)

Yeah.

Amy Souza (51:00)

Then be that testosterone, you know, that, that suppressed testosterone. You will see it come out and you will see a man behave like a man. And the young women who go on testosterone, Testosterone, duh. This has to do with aggression, you know, and again, like, it just is insane to me. Like every other, you know, sexually dimorphic species on the planet in which the male is bigger and stronger and impacted by testosterone, they, they have a healthy respect of male aggression, you know, like I just. Last year was it last year, the year before whatever Chimp Empire came out on Netflix, which follows these like two, you know, little groups of chimps in their natural habitat and how they, you know, interact and defend territory. And when you see the, the male aggression go off, the females run, they grab their babies and they friggin run. They're not like sitting around being like, well, he's just like us, we're all just same, we're all the same. No, they go protect themselves. And so to treat human women like we don't have these same instincts, like, we don't know, we, we know what can happen with male aggression.

Hayley Carania (52:17)

Right. So what is the link between transgenderism and this incel culture? It kind of seems to go back to this. I don't know if it's like a jealousy of women or a hatred of women or what it is, but some of these transgender people were gender confused. People go on these online chat rooms, they're on discord, they're on 4chan, 8chan, whatever it is. And what's happening on Their.

Amy Souza (52:48)

Trans max saying. I think this is, this is all wrapped up in porn culture and male entitlement. You know, what is incel culture that, that I am entitled to, to female sexuality and that if a woman doesn't want to have sex with me, it's not my responsibility. You know, it's not, because I am not, you know, I have not made myself a, you know, marketable partner. You know, it's because women are doing something to me. You know, they're, they're doing something to me. And again, it's about entitlement and control. So this, this trans maxing is like, so I can't, like, you know, I'm. I. Women are withholding sex from me. So again, this is, to me, this is all about male sexuality. So then, then I change myself. I mask my secondary sex characteristics and then I, you know, play this sissy victim, hyper sexualized submissive fantasy in which the. I think the only sexual partner I can get is by going along with this sissy submissive thing and being with other men. And again, this is, this is very male sexuality. You know, it's really funny to me that, that all of these men's attempt to, to be feminine is male sexual display. It's, it's not femininity. It's not like soft, it's not open. It's not vulnerable. It is aggressive. You know, it is aggressive. It is dominant. It is controlling it's male behavior. It is, you know, it's like so ironic because their, their portrayal of, of what they think is feminine is male behavior. It's peacocking. It's. It's explosive, it's dominant. It's controlling it's force.

Hayley Carania (54:45)

Right.

Amy Souza (54:46)

You know, it's, it's nothing to do with the feminine.

Hayley Carania (54:51)

So this might be a controversial question to ask you because you're a mental health professional, but do you think that you can be cured of transgenderism through therapy and people are just not being cured because the whole system is rigged?

Amy Souza (55:07)

Well, it's an addiction, okay? It's not a mental. It's an addiction like alcoholism. It's an addiction like anorexia is a kind of addiction. You know what is happening to the anorexic? She doesn't feel fat. There is no fat feeling. There is no. Just like the opening thing, the opening thing that I was talking about about feelings. Feelings are sensations. They're either physical sensations or emotions. There's no. The anorexic cannot feel obese. She is starving. She doesn't feel obese. There is no obese sensation that she has. And there is no fat emotion. She doesn't. Even though she's saying, I feel fat, I feel fat, I feel fat. That's a little misnomer. She thinks she's having an obsessive thought that's in her head where she thinks she's fat. She's getting a little high out of starving herself. There. There's a high and there is a control issue. So it's an obsessive thought. It's a, it's a little high. It's a control issue. It's, it's. It's obsessive thinking and addiction. Same with this trans madness. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a born in the wrong body issue. It is an obsessive thought issue. It's a control issue. And it is an addiction, like an emotional high. And especially for the men who are hyper sexualizing themselves, it's a paraphilia. Paraphilias are addictions. Pedophilia is an addiction.

Hayley Carania (56:35)

Right.

Amy Souza (56:36)

You know, what's the paraphilia? Necrophilia is an addiction. These are addictions. So these are high. So they, yes, of course they can be treated by mental health, and of course you can get away from them. But addicts do not long to be treated unless they identify that it's a problem. Alcoholics do not want to be treated until they hit some kind of rock bottom and realize, oh, this is disrupting my ability to have healthy, normal life and relationships. But they have to hit some kind.

Hayley Carania (57:14)

Of a rock bottom for society keeps fueling these people's addiction. They don't, they can't even get away from it. They keep getting that dopamine hit because, you know, Congress passes laws and it's trans visibility day, and you get a whole week and then it's pride month and whatever. Like, they keep getting that dopamine hit.

Amy Souza (57:35)

And, you know, there's this great woman, you should look her up because she is hilarious. Mary Kate Delvaney. And she has a famous. She.

Mother (57:45)

She did it.

Amy Souza (57:46)

She's kicked off TikTok now, but she's on X. But she had. She has a famous series called Listen to Trans People. And all she does is read from Reddit. And if you. She has like an hour. She, she just did a compilation where it's like over an hour's worth of just her reading from Reddit, reading what they have to say in their own words. And it's all about, you know, I used to, you know, jack off into my mom's panties. I used to, you know, I get it. I'm getting a euphoria, boner. I'm like, you know, it's all. And. And what is the most addictive? Porn is addictive. And anything that. That, you know, gets you off, where you have that dopamine hit of sexual gratification is an addiction. This is, you know, it is absolutely addictive. These, these identities and the power of it. Again, the power and coercion, the power to be like, call me a woman. Call me a woman. You know, get on your knees and call me a woman. You know, that. That's. So. That's such a display of dominance, right?

Hayley Carania (58:53)

So if you are a transgender person and you realize, okay, this is something that I want to be treated, or maybe there's a parent out there and their kid comes to them and is starting to have these confusing thoughts, how do you find a mental health professional that isn't going to affirm they're going to treat?

Amy Souza (59:16)

I. You may have to go out of state because certain states have mandated affirmation only as their policy. You may have to go with some sort of, you know, unlicensed professional in terms of, like, someone who does more of, like, coaching or, you know, life skills or skill building and. And go, you know, obviously go with someone who you trust and who has a good reputation and who. But sometimes you will have to go out of licensure because sometimes, because of the licensure procedures, some mental health professionals are in a bind. Now, I don't think they should be in a bind because I think, you know, if. If you're. If your credential system is forcing you to participate in harm, leave it. You know, don't. Don't use it. Don't deal with it.

Hayley Carania (60:12)

I wonder if. I wonder if a trans person went to a therapist to get help, like, to be treated. If the therapists these days would be like, no, you're. No, these are, you know, you shouldn't think that way. You should. I mean, that's very scary to, to think that someone could be going to get help to be treated. And it's like, oh, well, no, like, that's, you know, you're being fed, you know, the wrong kind of thing. Like, you should lean into this. You should be proud to be trans. I mean, ah, that just. That's scary.

Amy Souza (60:47)

There's a God. There's a famous breakdown of a young man called Isaac. I don't know if he's still on YouTube, but he. He filmed himself on his YouTube calling his therapist and just absolutely railing his therapist and he's just crying and upset and he's saying, why did you do this to me? I was deluded. I was like a stupid schizophrenic and why did you indulge my delusions? And you know, I have so much empathy for, I do have true empathy for the young kids who are, are led down this path. The, the, the, the boys who are simply have internalized homophobia. You know, and we do know from studies, we do, we do know that watchful waiting, especially for kids, you know, if, if this is not about adult, you know, sexuality for the kids who are led down this path, watchful waiting is absolutely a cure. Puberty, ironically, is the cure. You know, how many girls, you know, maybe you're a little younger than me, but like I know so many girls who were total tomboys, you know, oh, 100%.

Hayley Carania (62:04)

My favorite color was blue. I'd run around, get dirty, I'd play all the sports. I had worms in my pockets. I was, you know, total Tom who.

Amy Souza (62:13)

Didn'T like the girly girl things. And if you ask them, you know, I had a friend who even like one summer, I don't this so weird but like one summer she, she, she wanted to be, you know, a boy so much and love Tom Story and wanted to be called Tom and everyone did, but we didn't think it meant that she was a boy. And then puberty is the cure. You know, she, she went through puberty, she became a mature woman, she's, you know, happily married and has four kids. You know, she's, you know, even like, sort of, you know, not that you necessarily become that, that feminine, but like, you know, she, she did the most feminine thing a woman can do, which is to give birth multiple times and, and fall in love with being a mother, you know. And you know, and that's the, the other thing that I say, like this is just, it is such a slap in the face to mothers what these boys are doing. Like mothers who literally, you know, labored to bring you into the world. This, this is such a disrespect of your mother's labor to, to call yourself a woman. The friggin audacity, right? The absolute audacity. But yes, there is a path forward. And the thing is that the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, I mean I, I have critiqued this diagnosis. Mia Hughes, health professional, has, has critiqued this. There's a woman Dr. P. On X critiques this. There, there are many mental health professionals that critique the Diagnosis of gender dysphoria because it is absolutely rooted in sexist, regressive stereotypes. It's absolutely about, you know, if you want to play with dolls, you just might be a girl. Or if you like trucks, you just might be a boy. You know, these are just cultural artifacts. You know, these are just sexist projections, you know, saying that kids have to do this. But if a boy wants to wear a dress, it does not make him less of a boy. You know, maybe he just likes princesses because they're cool characters, and that's what he, you know, connects with, you know, and if these. The diagnosis of gender dysphoria just reifies old stereotypes and tropes, and it doesn't mean, you know, each sex doesn't have some tendencies. You know, there. There are some tendencies for female nurturance. There are some tendencies for male aggression, but like, these external things, like, you know, earrings or whatnot, that. That's just. Just dress up, you know, this is just. You know, this. This is just an arbitrary artifact that our culture has. All cultures have some kind of face, pa. Have some kind of adornment. The fact that these are our adornments and the fact that our culture has, for some reason, like, bifurcated adornments. Like, you know, the, like, fancy adornments are just for women, you know, and there's some little boys, you know, I remember I was, like, painting my niece's nails, and my little nephew was like, can I have my nails painted? Because at that age, all he saw was like, she gets a cool costume.

Hayley Carania (65:20)

And I don't exactly. No, I totally get that. And on. On that point. Jeffree star is a makeup artist who doesn't even really identify with all of the labels. He hates labels. But he dresses as a woman, but he hates the trans community. I guess hate is a strong word, but he does not want the tea anywhere near lgb. So I want to play this video for you quick, and we can react on the other end. Watch this.

Advertisement Voice (65:55)

You can only be a man, a woman, or trans. I am not gay. I am just open and very me. There's obviously a lot of gay people out there that only like a certain thing. That's great. Lgb is it Q and T. Get off the Alphabet, sweetie. You should be in your own category. Okay, let me break it down for you. Straights, lesbian, gay, and bi. Is that not a sexuality?

Amy Souza (66:18)

That's a sexuality.

Hayley Carania (66:19)

Okay.

Advertisement Voice (66:20)

Right.

Amy Souza (66:20)

Okay.

Advertisement Voice (66:21)

You're what you think your identity is has nothing to do with what you're sexually attracted to. So why is T and Q on LGBT and what I. That means lgb, gay, lesbian, and bi. That is your preference of who you are attracted to and what you like. Your identity issues and who you think you are is so separate. I don't agree that they should be together. You can only be a man, a woman, or trans. Nowadays we have grown men with beards wearing dresses, going into the women's restroom. When I was younger, any normal person that felt like they were born in the wrong body was trying to be passable, and they were really wanting to live their life as a woman. And if you really think psychologically you were born in the wrong body, unfortunately, it's kind of. It's like a mental illness, but people hear illness and they just have a full spiral. So this new age of weirdos and predators trying to pretend they're trans or pretend they're this and. And harm women and children, that's my issue.

Hayley Carania (67:30)

You know, I think some people need to hear it from someone who looks like Jeffree Star. Right. This is someone who. He's got the long green hair and he's got the makeup on, and he's a wildly successful makeup artist, but he's also moved to Wyoming. He shoots guns. He. He's like the first person to call out the trans lunacy, and if you have a beard, get out of the women's restroom. This is kind of a different kind of messenger that I think people are starting to listen to.

Amy Souza (68:02)

Yeah, I think there's a lot of, you know, really good, you know, progressive liberals who can. It is easier for them to absorb the message that way. And, you know, and I think it's. It is challenging because, you know, I, you know, I have been a registered Democrat my whole life. There's. There's a lot of issues that I have with the party now. I. I have definitely distanced myself from everything they're doing. But. But they're, you know, I think it's hard because, you know, as soon as you critique this issue, you. You are going to be pigeonholed. And. And I think as soon as. And also, the only people, even I don't know who was interviewing Jeffree Star. I would be very interested to know who was interviewing him, because what I find is, you know, I come from a radical feminist background, but who are the people who give me platforms? No one on the left has ever given me a platform. No one on the left has ever asked, hey, I want to hear your opinion about this. Hey, I want you to speak about this. That has never Happened.

Hayley Carania (69:15)

Well, that was Lauren Bostick and her husband, and his name is escaping me. But they own Dear Media, and I think they're conservative. Maybe they're like closet conservative. But I remember they got so much backlash. They did an interview with Ivanka Trump and everyone was freaking out. And so I don't really know exactly where they stand politically or anything, and that doesn't necessarily matter to me. But to your point, they allowed Jeffree Star to come on to their platform and kind of bash the trans movement, which people probably don't allow these days. But. But there's one more video that I want you to react to, and then I'll let you plug where people can find you. But this is a woman, a mother, who is confronted with their child telling them that they are confused. So I want you to react to this and say, she did a good job or a bad job. Watch this.

Mother (70:06)

Why do you want to be a boy? Because. Why?

Amy Souza (70:10)

Because I just want to.

Mother (70:13)

Well, we're not a boy. What are you? You're a girl. It's kind of like having a gift from God. God gave you the gift of being a girl. Oh, you don't want to be a girl? Why?

Advertisement Voice (70:26)

Because.

Mother (70:29)

Who told you you weren't a girl? Who said that, huh?

Amy Souza (70:34)

God taught me to not be.

Mother (70:37)

No, that's not true. That's not true.

Advertisement Voice (70:40)

You know why?

Mother (70:41)

Because you are a girl. God made you to be a girl. Did you know that? He made you special. So, so, so special to be a girl. Was someone joking about you being a boy?

Amy Souza (70:53)

And that hurt my family. He told me I'm a boy.

Mother (70:57)

Okay, Even if she said so, are you a boy? Good. You're not a boy. So who cares what someone says? That's like someone saying that you're not funny. But are you funny? Yeah, you are. That's like someone saying that you're not pretty, but are you pretty?

Amy Souza (71:12)

Yeah.

Mother (71:13)

See, this is what we gotta learn, okay? Sometimes people will call you things, and it's up to you to believe it. Okay? You get to decide. Say I decide. I decide what I believe. Good. And we know. Say I know.

Amy Souza (71:32)

I know.

Mother (71:32)

I know that God made me special to be a what? A girl. See?

Hayley Carania (71:38)

Easy as that. And this reminds me of the story that you told about the haircut that you got when you were little. And someone said that you look like a boy and that hurt your feelings. And it turns out that this little girl didn't want to be a boy. But someone had said something to her on the playground. Then she got uncomfortable Then she was made to feel insecure, then she was just kind of repeating what people were telling her. And I thought that the mom did a good job of reminding her. You get to decide. You, you are the arbiter of your truth and you don't have to listen to everyone else.

Amy Souza (72:08)

And it's just Child Safeguarding 101 to have kids have the accurate words to talk about their body and to tell them the truth about the world and themselves and their bodies. Especially when kids, we know from child safeguarding, when kids do not have language to talk about their bodies. You know, there's a famous story of a, of a teacher who was confused about a girl because she kept saying that there was, there was some boy touching her cookie, you know, because the girl had no language to talk about her body because her parents used little, you know, kid language or whatever, you know. But kids, it is very important for safeguarding that kids have accurate language to talk about their body and that they are grounded in the reality of their physical circumstances. And yeah, that mom did an absolute great job just, you know, asking questions. Where did you hear that? Why did you think that, you know, gentle. She didn't. She never got angry, she never got upset, but she just repeated, no, this is reality. No, this is reality. No, this is reality. You know, in a very gentle way that, that worked for their family.

Hayley Carania (73:19)

Yeah, it's a good tip. So, Amy, thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you if they want more?

Amy Souza (73:25)

I am on all the socials. I am known Heretic on Twitter and Instagram. I am Amy Souza on Amy Souza on Facebook. I am known.heretic on TikTok. And I have a substack for longer form essays about this, which is www.theknownhertic.com.

Hayley Carania (73:53)

Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me. This is a great conversation.

Amy Souza (73:56)

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.