Punished For Exposing Somali Fraud?! - Scrolling w/ Hayley (Ep. 318)

Summary

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Scrolling with Hayley – Ep. 318

"Punished For Exposing Somali Fraud?!"

Date: June 15, 2026
Host: Hayley Caronia
Guest: Daniel Roberts, former CEO of Merchants Bank of California

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the exposure of massive alleged fraud schemes involving Somali social service organizations in Minnesota, the banking system's response, and the fate of whistleblowers. Host Hayley Caronia interviews Daniel Roberts, who recounts his experience as a bank CEO pressured by regulators and politicians to turn a blind eye—or face severe consequences. The conversation also touches on government complicity, debanking, and policy failures. It offers a candid, sharply critical conservative perspective on government oversight, financial regulation, and political ties in the Somali American community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Somali Fraud & Operation Choke Point

• Operation Choke Point: Identified as a federal initiative to pressure banks into cutting off services for clients engaged in activities deemed "politically incorrect" (03:28, 11:57).
  • "We were sort of a precursor to the Somali social services fraud and how the money was probably laundered outside the country." – Daniel Roberts [03:28]
• Regulators targeted Merchants Bank for doing business with money transmitters specializing in remittances to Somalia.
• Over $40 million per month was being sent to Somalia from the U.S. by these companies (10:31).

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2. Political Pressure & Regulatory Response

• The bank faced direct pressure from politicians, notably then-Congressman Keith Ellison (now Minnesota Attorney General), to keep accounts for Somali remittance companies open [06:12, 12:16].
  • "He was very forceful. He was threatening. He threatened to investigate our bank if we close these accounts." – Daniel Roberts [05:44]
• When the bank closed the accounts under regulatory direction, Congressmembers Ellison and Franken intervened with both regulators and the U.S. Treasury [07:07].
• The Treasury’s solution: allow remittance companies to carry bulk cash in carry-on bags on international flights, filling out only a FinCEN 105 currency report. This eliminated any possibility of oversight [08:08].

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3. The Mechanics and Ramifications of Untracked Money Transfers

• Once the bank accounts were closed, oversight disappeared. No one knows who sends or receives these bulk cash shipments, or whether the funds even arrive in Somalia versus being diverted elsewhere [10:31, 11:17].
  • "Nobody knows anything about the money or where it even went… Even went to Somalia. If it went to Yemen or went to Beirut, nobody knows." – Daniel Roberts [10:40]
• The removal of banking oversight was viewed as the government "teaching" communities how to launder money out of the country with impunity [11:45, 19:33].
• Hayley asserts a sense of government complicity or willful blindness in enabling fraud against taxpayers [13:49, 16:01, 16:05].

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4. Debanking as a Tool for Political Retaliation

• Daniel recounts how he, his bank, and high-profile figures (including President Trump and Canadian truckers) have been "debanked" for crossing political thresholds [17:03]. This extended beyond his tenure at Merchants Bank to his personal and business life [17:03, 18:21].
  • "When you do something that's not politically correct, you become a target. And I became a target." – Daniel Roberts [17:42]
• Debanking is described as a means of silencing dissent and preventing individuals from operating businesses or challenging the system [18:21].

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5. Systemic Issues & Lack of Recourse

• Hayley and Daniel discuss how lawful businesses, simply by operating in compliance but outside political favor, are denied basic banking services [22:20].
  • "People who are operating lawful businesses should have the right to open an account at a federally insured depository institution if it's a lawful business. Why can't they have a bank account?" – Daniel Roberts [22:33]
• Explicit examples are cited, such as the closure of Silvergate, Signature, and other banks tied to controversial industries (crypto, marijuana).

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6. National Implications & Potential for Broader Abuse

• Somali remittance schemes cited in Minnesota, California, Seattle, Ohio, Washington D.C.—wherever significant Somali communities exist [21:48].
• The host speculates on similar patterns among other immigrant groups, suggesting a wider government-facilitated loophole [20:24].
• Daniel emphasizes the original intent: anti-money laundering and anti-terrorism goals have been lost as oversight shifts from banks to nontransparent cash transactions [14:07, 28:33].

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7. Policy Recommendations & Hope for Reform

• The Trump administration and Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency are hailed as positive developments—if action is taken [25:00, 25:43].
  • "He's got to take action with the federal regulators." – Daniel Roberts [25:04]
• Daniel advocates:
  • Restoration of transparent, monitored banking relationships for legitimate businesses,
  • Policy reforms to prevent regulatory ideology from harming those who comply,
  • Measures to ensure public policy is implemented sensibly, not politically [26:49, 27:13].
• Illustrates the decline in effective oversight using the example of tracking funds after the 2013 Al Shabaab attack on Nairobi’s Westgate Mall (27:18).
  • "We could immediately operationally track to see if these people had sent money to any place in the world or whether they had received money. ...That can't be done now." – Daniel Roberts [28:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Our government has forced the bank that was most knowledgeable about monitoring these businesses out of business, number one. And number two, it's taught them how to launder money out of the country without any monitoring." – Daniel Roberts [11:31]
• "When you do something that's not politically correct, you become a target. And I became a target." – Daniel Roberts [17:42]
• "You don't think that this happens in first world countries. You don't think that this happens in the United States of America. And yet it is." – Hayley Caronia [11:45]
• "Why can't they have a bank account?... The federal regulators shouldn't be allowed to politicize, to attack people they don't like through the banking system by closing their accounts." – Daniel Roberts [22:34]
• "When companies know you're monitoring them, they behave in a certain fashion. If they believe there's no more monitoring... they can get away with murder." – Hayley Caronia [28:41]

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Timeline of Key Segments (timestamps approximate)

• [03:28] – Origins of the Somali fraud crisis, regulatory and political pressure on the bank
• [04:10–06:12] – Details of money transmitter accounts, political intervention
• [08:08] – U.S. Treasury's workaround: bulk cash with minimal reporting
• [10:31] – Magnitude and untraceability of cash outflows ($40 million/mo)
• [12:16] – Political connections: Keith Ellison, Al Franken, and their roles
• [16:01] – Reflections on Nick Shirley's exposé and whistleblowing risks
• [17:03–18:21] – The growing problem of debanking and chilling effect on dissent
• [22:20] – Regulatory ideology’s broader collateral damage to lawful business
• [25:00–25:43] – Policy optimism: Trump, Musk, and potential reform
• [27:18–28:33] – Example of effective oversight: tracking terror suspects, and why oversight is now impossible

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Take-Home Messages

• Regulatory policy and political ideology have jointly enabled large-scale fraud by discouraging banks from monitoring suspect transactions.
• Whistleblowers and dissenters in finance are exposed to personal and professional ramifications, including debanking and regulatory retribution.
• Politicians and regulators, rather than addressing fraud, have in some instances enabled it for political or ideological reasons.
• Comprehensive reform is required to restore transparency and prevent abuse—particularly in high-risk sectors involving remittances from taxpayer-funded programs.

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Final Reflections

The episode serves as a high-energy, sharply critical examination of fraud, financial oversight, and political interference within the U.S. regulatory state. Hayley’s unapologetic tone highlights a deep skepticism of government, urging listeners to demand accountability and reform—particularly as new political leadership promises a crackdown on waste and abuse.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome into Scrolling with Haley. I'm Haley Carne. A quick reminder to subscribe to this show if you haven't already. Rumble.com Haley brings you to the Bongino Report channel. That's where you can watch this show live Monday to Friday at noon. If you can't catch us at live, you can watch whenever you want or listen on your favorite podcast platform. The podcast episodes are available right after the live show ends. So however you listen, wherever you listen, all I ask is that you tell a friend I've I've got a great interview on deck for you today, but first a message from today's sponsor. Lately I've realized how much a good mattress actually impacts everything. Your energy, your mood, even how productive you feel during the day. That's what pushed me to finally upgrade to Helix. I have switched to the midnight luxe mattress and I've never slept better. I took their sleep quiz, got matched to a model made for my sleep style and it has been a total game changer. The support is incredible. The pressure relief has made an immediate difference. Plus the cooling upgrade has been huge, especially as nights start getting warmer here and I'm not waking up hot or flipping my pillow all night anymore. Even my sleep tracker shows deeper and fewer interruptions which I really noticed throughout the day. The whole process was super easy. Free shipping. It arrived right at my door. Setup just took a few minutes. You can also get a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty so it feels completely risk free free. Go to helixsleep.com haley h a y l e y for 2020 off site wide that is helixsleep.com h a y l e y for 20 off site wide helixleep.com haley and thanks to independent journalists Nick Shirley, you're likely aware of the massive fraud schemes taking place within the Somali community in Minnesota. The American people knew fraud was occurring in our government. We know that politicians go into office making $170,000 per year and some of them come out with millions and multiple vacation homes to show for it. And we've heard of COVID era PPP loan schemes and of course, thanks to Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency, we know that our tax dollars don't exactly go to fixing roads and bridges all the time and helping veterans and things that we care about. Our cities are crumbling and if anyone is getting free health care, it's illegal aliens. Social Security is dwindling. But don't worry, kids in Pakistan can watch Sesame street and kids in Mozambique can Get circumcised on me, on you, on the American taxpayer. So it seems like our government gets away with highway robbery, taking our hard earned cash and using it for, well, who knows. And with the exposure of the daycare fraud in Minnesota and nursing home fraud in California, it begs the questions, how widespread is this? And when whistleblowers speak out, what happens next? You would think that justice may be served. But in the case of my next guest, it's quite the opposite. Daniel Roberts is the CEO of Merchants bank in California. He blew the whistle on Somali fraud. And what happens next will shock you. And he speaks out on this episode of Scrolling with Haley. Alrighty. Welcome into the show.

[B]

Welcome. Good to be here. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much. So you are the CEO of Merchants bank of California. And what kind of fraud did you see taking place? What did you find and what evidence do you have to support it?

[B]

Well, let me address it this way. As I was the chairman and CEO of Merchants bank, we were forced out of business approximately 10 years ago by the federal regulators. And our issues dealt with three issues. One was Operation Choke Point, which I hope you're familiar with, with number two, with debanking. So we were involved with the debanking issues before President Trump and his family were debanked. And then we were sort of a precursor to the Somali social services fraud and how the money was probably laundered outside the country. And I can give you information on that subject.

[A]

I would love to hear that. I'd love to hear more. So how do they get this money?

[B]

Well, As a bank, we were a sort of a special purpose bank. We represented check cashers and money transmitters. And money transmitters are companies like Western Union or MoneyGram that send money abroad. Well, there are many of these companies in America. Many of them are corridor specific. So you have companies that just send money to Mexico, you have companies that send money to the Philippines. And you also had seven or eight companies that sent money, licensed money transmitters that sent money to Somalia. And many of these companies, not just to Mexico, to the Philippines, but also sent them to Somalia, were customers of our, of our bank. And the federal regulators, the comptroller of the currency, made it clear to us that they didn't want us banking these customers. And they put tremendous pressure on us and forced us to close the accounts of these money transmitters. Okay. Many of them were headquartered in Minneapolis in Minnesota. So in Probably April of 2014, we gave notice based upon pressure from the federal regulators that we were closing these accounts. And then what happens next? The Somalis contacted their local political leaders to put pressure on us. And so our Bank Secrecy act department was contacted by Congressman Keith Ellison, who put great pressure on, on the department to keep the accounts open. Department replied, well, this is, this is a corporate decision. You need to speak to Mr. Roberts. And Mr. Ellison contacted me directly. And he was very forceful. He was threatening. He threatened to investigate our, investigate our bank if we close these accounts.

[A]

And so did you notice anything fraudulent? Because when you decided to close these accounts, I mean, what were you noticing that was strange at first?

[B]

Well, we were doing a very careful job of monitoring the accounts operationally. And, and our customers knew that, that, that we were monitoring their accounts carefully. We were monitoring for, for OFAC violations, for aggregation. All there's a million different things that you check for operationally and for BSA purposes for money laundering. And the issue is, because we were forced to close these accounts, that what, that is what led to the probable ways the money was laundered overseas.

[A]

Got it. So when you caught wind of this, who do you report this fraud to?

[B]

Well, we were, we were, we were forced, we were ultimately forced to close the accounts. When we did so, we were contacted again by Congressman Ellison in great anger. And I told him this was out of our hands. This was the federal regulator. Then Congressman Ellison and Senator Franken, they approached the federal regulators directly. The federal regulators told them, don't bother us. Then Congressman Ellison and Senator Franken went directly to the US treasury and told them about the issue and that the treasury said that gave them an alternative means of sending the money to Somalia. And that was sending the money in bulk cash on carry on bags on international flights. And all the remittance company had to do was to file what's called the FinCEN 105. It's a currency transaction report. So now for the last.

[A]

The government wanted. The government was in the business of funneling money to Somalia.

[B]

That's correct. That's correct. While we were, while our customers banked with us, we monitored everything. Once we, once we closed the accounts, nobody was monitoring their activity. Nobody was checking, you know, who the, who the senders were, who the recipients were, where the money was actually going. All it was all was going was in bulk cash on international air flights to Addis Ababa in Ethiopia or in Dubai or wherever.

[A]

And then at that bank, your bank is no longer involved because you are no longer.

[B]

We're no longer involved. And so from a public policy standpoint, our government has taught, taught these people how to launder money outside of the country. Without any kind of monitoring at all. Wow.

[A]

So when was this all taking place? Because I know in 2017, the Office of the Comptroller and Currency announced a $1 million civil penalty against your bank. Why did they do that?

[B]

This all started in April of 2014. That's where the intense pressure came upon us. And they put us on a. On a consent order. It had 20 provisions. I'm advised by experts that the order was designed so that we couldn't comply with it. And so we were fine because they didn't like our compliance program. But I want to emphasize one point here. No one's ever accused us of being involved in money laundering or dealing with drug dealers or drug cartels or terrorist activity or any kind of criminal activity. They just sanctioned us because they didn't like our program and forced us out of business. That's the essence of Operation Choke Point.

[A]

And you maintain that this is because of the Somali fraud and you closing these accounts and no longer wanting to be, you know, unwillingly a part of this?

[B]

Yes, that's a substantial part of it. That's correct.

[A]

Wow. So how long. I mean, you said that this started in 2014. By that point, I mean, this Somali fraud, they knew exactly what they were doing. So how long do you think this has been going on for?

[B]

How long the fraud's been going on? I don't know. But we were sending, in, let's say In April of 2014, we were sending $40 million per month to Somalia. And since that time, I'm confident the volumes haven't reduced. So $40 million per month for the last over 10 years has gone to Somalia in black bags. And no one knows who the sender was, who the recipient is. Nobody knows anything about the money or where it even went, Even went to Somalia. If it went to Yemen or went to Beirut, nobody knows. Wow.

[A]

So you have no ideas as to who's behind this or how they're getting the money or what they're using it for?

[B]

I mean, I have no idea what they're using the money, money, money for. But nobody does and nobody ever will, okay? Nobody ever does, and nobody ever, ever will. But our government has taught. Has taught, has one, our government has forced the bank that was most knowledgeable about monitoring these businesses out of business, number one. And number two, it's taught them how to launder money out of the country without any monitoring.

[A]

This is insane. I mean, this is wild. I mean, you don't think that this happens in first world countries. You don't think that this Happens in the United States of America. And yet it is.

[B]

I mean, this is. This is bureaucratic ideology. Okay. You know, we bank check cashiers and money transmitters, they're politically incorrect. You know, and so we were like the number one focus of Operation Choke Point.

[A]

So in your opinion, is there any coincidence that then Congressman Keith Elephant. Keith Ellison is the Attorney General of Minnesota and there's a ton of Somali fraud taking place in Minnesota. It is public knowledge that he's taken money from the Somali community throughout his political career. So do you think that there is any coincidence at all that all of this Somali fraud is happening in Minnesota now?

[B]

Well, obviously, the Somali community had a very strong influence on Congressman Ellison and Senator Franken back in 2014. You know, he. He was. He was livid. He was. I mean. I mean, you know, I'm a banker. I'm not a politician. You know, I've never been called up on the phone by an angry congressman before. Okay. You know that. That's not an experience I was prepared for in life. Right. Okay. You know, and I don't think it's by chance. No.

[A]

Did he threaten you?

[B]

He threatened to investigate our bank, yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And it's because, I mean, you know, I'll repeat myself. It's rare. I don't know anybody. I don't know another banker who's had a congressman call him up and threaten to investigate them on one hand. And then on the other hand, I've got Obama era regulators who are ideologically oriented seeking to close these accounts. We were all an impossible and an impossible situation. Wow.

[A]

So, I mean, this. This fraud that's happening in the Somali community, and, and what do you think that politicians are hiding? Why do you think, you know, they came after your bank and they wanted to investigate you, but what are they so afraid of getting out?

[B]

Well, you. Why would. Why would our society. Why would the regulators and the politicians allow this to happen? I mean, from a standpoint, from a public policy standpoint, why aren't these transactions being monitored? I can only talk to you from the banking and from the remittance standpoint, the money transfer. I can't tell you about what's going on at these social service companies in Minnesota. There are reasons why society is always talking about Congress and the regulators are always talking about BSA and monitoring against drug activities and terrorist financing. And then the people who are doing the best job of monitoring it are being put out of business. And the ones who could be laundering the money for them are being taught by our own federal government how to do it. Right.

[A]

I mean, the fact that then Congressman Keith Ellison is now the Attorney General of Minnesota, you would think. I mean, it makes total sense that he didn't want you to expose this Somali fraud. He didn't want this to get out then. Now he's in a position of even higher power in Minnesota. He should be the one that's cracking down or one of the people that's cracking down on this in his state. And then again, you know, under his nose and Governor Tim Walls. His nose, we're seeing all of this take place. What was your reaction to Nick Shirley exposing what he exposed?

[B]

Well, you know, it was no surprise to me, first of all, because similar matters were going on here in California. But I immediately put two and two together. You know, obviously, this money that's been. Been defrauded from the American government is not sitting in bank accounts at U.S. bank in Minneapolis. They've gotten the money offshore. They. They've laundered overseas. How did they do that? Well, I can tell you exactly how they do it.

[A]

And do you think that this is taxpayer money?

[B]

Well, I mean, all these social service clinics, these Somali social service clinics in Minneapolis were all government. It's all our taxpayer money. Wow.

[A]

Do you think Nick Shirley should be afraid?

[B]

I hope not. I hadn't thought about that.

[A]

Well, I mean, you know, but we're

[B]

living in a society now. If you. If you don't do things. I mean, look at me. You know, I did things that were politically incorrect in the eyes of the federal regulators, and I was burned at the stake. I mean, I survived.

[A]

Saying, you've had dire, dire consequences for what you've done. And now Nick Shirley is exposing fraud. I mean, it seems to me like if you are not on the side of the government and you're doing your darndest to expose maybe some government wrongdoings, I think you should have a reason to be afraid. I mean, do you think that the government would try to debunk Nick Shirley?

[B]

Well, like I've been debanked on multiple occasions. You know, I mean. I mean, long after the Merchants bank story, I, you know, I had a local operating account here at a local bank for a building. All I did was deposit the rents from the tenants in the account, and all I made was operational expense and my mortgage expense to the same. You know, I had my accounts closed, My loan called. What. You know, what could be more legal than operating a building in Los Angeles? You know, you're. When. When. When you do something that's not politically correct, you Become a target. And I became a target. Yeah.

[A]

And unfortunately, you're not alone. I mean, you mentioned the Trump family earlier in this episode. You know, President Trump was debanked, and you were debanked in Canada. I don't know if you remember, during the 2020 craziness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The COVID vaccine mandates. I mean, truckers who spoke out against the vaccine mandates and the Canadian government, they were debanked. This is a tool that not only our government, but other first world governments use to silence people. That is a very scary thing. And if you are debanked, I mean, how do you possibly do business? I mean, how do they. How do you come out of this hole? It seems impossible.

[B]

You know, I could tell you, you know, I've been debanked from multiple banks. And it's not just being debanked, but it means you can't open an account. There's all kinds of business that you can't do that you would have done. But because of the issue of debanking, you're prohibited from doing all kinds of legal business. Okay. We were only involved in legal business.

[A]

So what do you do?

[B]

I want to emphasize. To emphasize we were, you know, my bank and myself and our executives, none of us were ever, ever alleged to have involved in any kind of criminal activity. Money laundering, drug dealing, drug cartels, terrorist fighting, nothing. Okay. Never. Just that they didn't like our program.

[A]

So how do you get over. I mean, how do you do business now?

[B]

It's been difficult.

[A]

How do you think that the Somali community figured out this foolproof plan to rip off the American taxpayer? Do you think that our government was so invested in it that they rolled out the red carpet and let it happen? Or how do you think that they figured out that they could do this to us?

[B]

All I can attest to is that our own government taught them how to take the money out of the country, how to launder the money out of the country? I cannot. I'm not knowledgeable enough to, you know, like Mr. Shirley, to deal with the specific fraud issues. Just when I saw it, I knew immediately what was going on. I knew where the money was going, how it was going, you know, and. And that. That no one would ever know what really happened with the money. Okay. No one will ever know where it went. You know, if you take a. If you take money in a. In a. In a. In a black bag to Dubai, who knows where the money goes, you know? Right. It doesn't necessarily go to. To Somalia, as I said earlier, it may go to it may go to the Sudan, it maybe go to Yemen, it may go to Beirut, it may go to Iran. No one knows. No one knows that.

[A]

Do you know of any other? I mean, because the Somali community got, you know, a lot of the headlines, right, And a lot of the attention earlier this year. But are there other immigrant communities doing this? I mean, surely if the Somali community has figured this out, there are other immigrant communities that are being coddled by the American government. Right?

[B]

Well, it's, it's generally speaking difficult for money transfer companies to obtain banking relationships, you know, so I mean the major, the major companies like Western Union and MoneyGram, they, I mean, they have strong banking relationships, you know, but you know, in, for example, dealing business with Mexico, we were forced to close the accounts of very well respected banks from Mexico with whom our, our customers did business, you know, extremely well respected. I could give you some name, some of, some of them and I suspect that other, you know, many people were forced out of business because they couldn't get banking relationships. You know, then how does the money travel there? It very well may be going in black bags with FinCEN 105s, it could be. I can't speak to that.

[A]

Okay, yeah, so this is happening, we know in Minnesota, we know it's happening in California. Do you know if this is happening in every single state? I mean, does every.

[B]

Okay, but I can tell you that the Somali remittance companies operate wherever there are Somali communities. So they operate in Seattle, they operate in Ohio, they operate in Washington D.C. wherever there is a Somali community, they are shipping money overseas in black bags being taught by the U.S. treasury.

[A]

Wow. What have you learned from this? I mean, what is something you want the American people to know about our government and politicians?

[B]

You know, regulatory ideology is destructive, okay? It's destructive. And. Our political system has to, to implement systems and a regulatory framework that protects our country from money laundering, okay? Among other things. And then people who are operating lawful businesses should have the right to open an account at a federally insured depository institution if it's a lawful business. Why can't they have a bank account? Why can, you know, I mean, you have a situation and it's not just, you know, other banks have been closed. I mean, Silvergate bank was closed in San Diego because of the crypto. Was, was, was, was a target of Operation Choke Point for many years. Marijuana dispensaries were, were, were a target of Operation Choke Point. I believe there was a bank in New York, Signature bank, that was closed because of similar issues relating, relating to this. I'm not an expert on. On. On. On. You know, but if somebody's operating a legal business that the American political system is said as a legal business, they should be able to operate that business and open up a bank account. And the federal regulators shouldn't be allowed to politicize, to attack people they don't like through the banking system by closing their accounts, forcing their accounts to be closed. Many of these banks, they're decent banks, but they don't have a choice. Either they close the accounts, or the regulators will come on them and crucify them. They don't have a choice. Wow.

[A]

Again, it's just shocking. You know, in a free country, it just seems like the people who are trying to do this the right way, the legal way, they're the ones that get burned. And people who want to rip off the system, they're the ones that get to do it. And, you know, you mentioned that our government has to take better care and, and. And protect our country from this illegal money laundering. And unfortunately, it seems like, you know, in the case of maybe Senator Al Franken and Attorney General Keith Ellison, they are maybe in bed with the Somali community. Certainly they've gotten money from Somali communities running in Minnesota. And you want the government to do the right thing, but the people that have the power to do the right thing, they're benefiting from the system as it stands today. So my question to you is, you know, with the Trump administration in office now, do you think that things are going to get better, or do you think it's just going to be more of the same?

[B]

Well, I have a lot of confidence in the Trump administration. And President Trump, to be candid with you, he's talked about ending Operation Choke Point, but you can talk about it. But he's got to take action. He's got to take action with the federal regulators. And seeing how the federal regulators dealt with these congressmen and senators, they just ignored what their requests were. You know. You know, I mean, it's. It's, you know, society needs to have a public policy that makes sense. Okay. And that is implemented by the regulators, and we don't have that today.

[A]

Right. You know, I'm hopeful as you are with this Trump administration, we have Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency. At least the American people have their eyes on this now. I mean, I think everyone had a feeling that there was a lot of corruption going on in government, but Doge really exposed this to the American people in a way that was shocking. I mean, we knew it was happening, but we didn't know exactly how much money was going to what, you know, BS things. So now we have sort of this tangible evidence of, oh, my goodness, we were capable. We know what the government was capable of, but now we have numbers to put with it. So for Elon Musk to do that and the Trump administration to do that, I was very grateful to see that. Now we have Vice President Vance heading up this fraud task force, and I think that that is certainly a step in the right direction. You say that he has to take on the federal regulators. What exactly needs to be done next, in your opinion?

[B]

Well, these transactions need to go through the banking system. And so, you know, lawful businesses need to be able to operate lawfully in the United States. That means having bank accounts. And so the. The regulators need to respond to positive public. To public policy. To positive public policy. My observation is that I'm not so sure that they do.

[A]

And do you have any evidence of this? Do you have any examples of this fraud that you can point to?

[B]

Well, let me give you an example. In 2013, there was a terrorist attack at a mall in Nairobi in Kenya. Now, I've been to that mall. There's several banks in that mall. And the terrorist attack was conducted by Al Shabaab, which is an Islamic terrorist organization from Somalia. And when, when, when, when this was reported, we immediately got the names of the eight individuals who were involved, the Al Shabab terrorists. Four or five of them had been from the United States. A few were three or, I think three or four were from Minneapolis and a couple were from Kansas City. We were immediately able to determine that none of our. Cut that through through. None of our customers had. These people either sent money or received money. Okay, we can track that. We could immediately operationally track to see if these people had sent money to any place in the world or whether they had received money. And so I can say, look, we've got no issues with respect to this. We're clean. Wow. That can't be done now. That can't be done now.

[A]

So to your point that that can't be done now, this tracking can't be done now, you assume that this problem has gotten a lot worse since then?

[B]

Yes, of course, of course. I mean, people, People, when, when people. When companies know you're monitoring them, you know, monitoring them closely, they behave in a certain fashion if they believe there's no more monitoring, you know.

[A]

Right, of course. I mean, they can get away with murder.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wow. Well, thank you so much for telling these stories. It's. It's important to get out there. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you.

[B]

Thank you so much. Thank you both. Thank you all.

[A]

Thank you so much for watching today's episode and interview. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I do. Make sure that you follow me on social media at Haley Karenia, and I will see you right back here next time. Bye.