Tas Melas (1:55)

The man making the magic happen. He's got so many things on the go. He's bringing in a duck from Ohio in a second. It's jd.

JD (2:01)

Hello.

Tas Melas (2:02)

What's going on? JD we good? We're good. We're so good because we've got Dr. James Borchers joining us via Zoom. There he is. Thank you so much, Dr. Borchers, for joining us. You wear so many hats. You've got such an extensive resume. We're going to get to it as we go along in this interview. We appreciate you joining us. Right now, I'll start with a generic question for you because one of the hats that you wear as the president and CEO of the U.S. council for Athletes Health that you started seven years ago, you and your fellow doctors you discuss, you literally are hand to hand with teams, organizations from all age levels, whether it's, you know, youth, high school, college, and. And you get to the bottom of what's going on with those teams and organizations trying to optimize their players health. So the generic question is, as you see here in the NBA, there are a lot of injuries with stars. Number one, is there a reason for that? Number two, is there anything that the NBA can do to. To adopt sort of a generic plan to help those injuries?

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Dr. James Borchers (3:12)

Well, thanks for having me, guys. First of all, great to be on with you and appreciate you taking on this topic and having me on to talk about it. I think, you know, to start, let me just say that I think athletics today, you know, we are seeing more and more injuries at every level. But certainly as you mentioned, in the sport of basketball. And I think that, you know, you have to start looking back at what is going on in youth sports or what's been going on in youth sports for the past 15 years with increased volumes, increased sports specialization. And so you start to add all that up over time. And no matter what you're doing currently, there is an effect of everything that's happened from AAU basketball to college basketball. And then you see athletes getting into the NBA and the increased than, you know, training that they're doing even at this level. So I think if there's a cumulative effect, right, and it's not just about what happens once somebody gets to the NBA. And I think we've got to look at youth sport and, you know, and what's going on there to try to affect some of the injuries that we're seeing. But then I think also, you know, why didn't we see as much of this in the past? And I think we look at what goes on in the off season, what goes on with load management, what goes on not just in the game, but what goes on around the game. And how often are we allowing athletes to recover? What are the, you know, what does the season look like? What's the cadence of the activity level? And I think the NBA tries to do that. I think every sports league is trying to look at, you know, how can we minimize those effects. But you guys know as well as any as anybody else, you start, you know, adding games, wanting more games, more playoffs, add in other events, international events, Olympic events, off season training, that cumulative effect is just going to lead to wear and tear and breakdown.

Tas Melas (5:15)

So specifically, as you said, the accumulation that we've seen, especially with Achilles injuries is. Is that stemming from youth ball, as you said, like AAU all the way up to the professional level? Is it just as we've seen with Tyrese Haliburton for instance, or Jason Tam, all of these? Is it just an accumulation or Is it just these one time events that just happen to happen?

Dr. James Borchers (5:41)

No, it has a cumulative effect in my opinion. It's, it has to do with the amount of load that, that, you know, that, that Achilles, for example, is seeing over the course of a career and the increased amount of activity we just. At the youth level, at adolescent level, people are just doing more. They specialize. They don't have multi sport athletes. They're only playing one sport. And so you see the cumulative effect of breakdown on a tissue and I think that plays a big role then in what happens. And then you see these micro injuries or minor injuries and that can lead to what we see with the Achilles. And so certainly.

Dr. James Borchers (6:21)

That plays a big part in it. There may be just some predisposition for an individual to have an Achilles injury, but I think it's a cumulative effect of what you see in, you know, in micro injuries over time and then partial injuries is what ends up causing a lot of these soft tissue type injuries and especially an Achilles injury in a jumping athlete, like a basketball player.

JD (6:44)

Hearing you explain it, it basically sounds like even young players are getting to the NBA with a lot more miles on their legs because they're playing a lot more games through aau, through their high school teams, their different high school programs, and they're only playing in basketball games rather than, you know, the three sport athletes of. This guy was the best athlete in the entire school, so of course he was our best player in every single sport. That doesn't happen quite as often. Why, why is that the case? Why does specializing in basketball lead to more injuries when you're playing basketball?

Dr. James Borchers (7:22)

Well, it's just you're doing the same activity over and over and over again, you know, and think about AAU guys. Sometimes you play two, three, four games in a day. Yes, we've heard of AAU kids playing, you know, 12 games in a weekend. And you start thinking about the cumulative effect. I'm just telling you, younger athletes, they get to college or they get through high school, get to college. Young athletes in the NBA, they just have more wear and tear on their bodies. And that's the professionalization of youth sport. I mean, anything you want to talk about? It's just, it's what we've done with youth sport. And youth athletes can't train like adult athletes. They can't handle the loads of adult athletes. Oftentimes we're putting more on them than we even are on college or professional athletes. So you're going to end up with more problems and more injuries and they may not show itself until they start to get further along in their career or they're able to, you know, compensate for some of that. But then they're, you know, you know, they're going to see these injuries as they move forward. It's not just the Achilles tendon, patellar tendon, you know, knee issues, you know, we're seeing more hip issues. It just, it's just the wear and tear on a, on an athlete, you know, with all the increased volume and training that goes on at the youth.

Tas Melas (8:31)

Level, specifically with Achilles. I've heard you talk about how modern day recoveries for Achilles are so much faster. Is that the case across all sports? Is it just an age thing where you see a younger player? Like I brought up Tyrese Halliburton who just had it several months ago, but we're expecting him back early. Why the change there? Why has it become faster?

Dr. James Borchers (8:58)

I think you mentioned a good point. We're seeing it in younger athletes. Younger athletes recover better. You know, when you used to see the Achilles injury in the rec basketball league and the 45 year old, that's a lot different than a 25 year old, you know, and how they're going to recover. I think the surgical techniques are obviously better today, but the biggest thing is the rehabilitation, the constant rehabilitation that goes on around these injuries, especially for professional athletes. They're getting, you know, round the clock rehabilitation and care and that, that certainly helps them to recover faster. And so there's a benefit to that. And I think that, you know, that ability to rehab and not just doing it once or twice a week, but when you're spending hours a day in a rehab and recovering, you're just going to recover faster. And I think we've seen some pretty amazing comebacks just because of the advancement in rehabilitation science and how we get people back from those types of injuries.

Tas Melas (9:52)

Yeah, as far as rehab and recovery, we all sort of hear it. Oh, it's incredibly important. But then hearing you speak about it in a lot of your interviews, you prioritize it so much. I just wonder with the NBA, we don't have a sort of a uniform plan across the board for the NBA and team by team, we just don't have a minister of sports to implement that. Go do this. Is there some way for the NBA to have something like that? Should they have sort of a uniform plan?

Dr. James Borchers (10:27)

Well, I think that as much as they can, I mean, you know, obviously each individual is a little bit different. I think as much as they can with scheduling, as much as they can with, you know, how the cadence of the season works, what resources are available to teams? I can tell you NBA teams, I mean, they have incredible resources. Obviously they've got physical therapists and sports scientists and rehabilitation specialists, athletic training specialists, you know, with their teams. But even with all of that, you can't undo I think what's gone on in the past. And I'm not trying to overemphasize that the NBA probably, you know, just like all sports leagues is most concerned about what has already gone on to an athlete, you know, when they get to the NBA. Because you can't undo, you know, the things that happened in the past. So affecting youth sport, affecting, you know, the education of youth sport and what happens with young athletes, parents educating themselves on what's important to make certain that an athlete can remain healthy and competitive and perform at their best as they go forward there, you know, there's just no benefit to breaking your body down at age 15 and 16.

Dr. James Borchers (11:39)

At the detriment of what could happen to you when you're 19, 20, 21. You might be in college or might be going into the NBA or onto another higher level of sport. So as much as I'm certain the NBA could, could try to do some things, it's really hard to undo what's happened in the, in someone's past.

JD (11:59)

We're dads here. What's the age that we should see our kids actually start specializing? Because youth sport is incredibly competitive and it can at times feel like you're getting left behind if you're not devoting yourself to just one thing and doing everything you can to get better at whatever your sport might be. But like you're saying, the intensity of it, the regularity, the frequency of it can be an overload for young athletes.

Dr. James Borchers (12:27)

Yeah, look, the evidence is out there. You guys know this. The best athletes in the world and every sport are multi sport. Athletes are good at a lot of different things and they play a lot of different sports. The development of an athlete requires a lot of skills and sports specialization at a young age doesn't improve your ability to play that sport. And so I tell parents all the time, let your kids play a lot of sports, probably until they get into their, you know, young or mid high school ages. And then if there is a sport that they love and they want to specialize, obviously you can pay more attention to it then. But even then they should be doing different things to continue to develop their bodies. And look, just because you're spending, you know, 60 hours a week on a Sport doesn't mean that you're going to be great at it. You're going to be, you're going to be better if you, if you have overall development. And so I think especially in youth sport, it's a huge mistake to think that, oh, my kid, you know, isn't doing. I think we put a lot of misperceptions out there like, oh, if you're not training, you know, all year round, then you're not going to be great at that. You know, it's just not the case. I mean, you guys know this, like you can go and watch athletes. It doesn't take very much time at all to pick out the great athletes are, and they're usually really good at a lot of different things if you give them something to do. So I think in youth sport, let your kids play a lot of different sports, let them develop a lot of different skill sets and they're going to be better athletes. They're also going to have less wear and tear. They're not going to have burnout, they're not going to have all the mental, you know, hygiene issues that we see in, in youth sport, burnout. I think the, you know, the idea of having 4th, 5th, 6th graders playing on AAU teams and traveling around the country and playing basketball all weekend and those sorts of things, you just don't see high level athletes usually come out of that, of that sort of setting.

Tas Melas (14:20)

Something we haven't seen cover in the NBA for the last 20 years or so is the number of calf and hamstring injuries at this rate, this early in the season. We saw this graph from Sportico and, and to see how they've jumped this much. Is there a reason, a standard reason to just point out why calf and hamstring injuries are happening? Jim?

Dr. James Borchers (14:45)

Yeah, it's just overall load. I mean, it's just, you know, it's just, you know, look at the time between the end of season, start of season, what players are doing during that time. Again, I know I've beaten it up, but the, you know, the, the, you know, history of the amount of load that's been there. And then I think just what you're asking, you know, I, I heard a coach recently talk about it from the NBA of like, we're just doing nothing but playing. Like we don't even have time to recover, we don't have time to practice. We're traveling. Are we tired? You know, fatigue? Are we really giving people a chance to recover? And what's the cumulative effect of that? And I just think eventually, you know, you're going to see this kind of breakdown. And so I think, you know, as much as you want to try to, you know, use periodization and trying to say we're going to limit back to backs, we're going to limit, you know, what we're doing. Players don't practice much during this season. They don't really have time. You know, they're trying to do things to get their body right, but they're playing a lot of games.

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JD (17:49)

You mentioned earlier talking about Achilles injuries that you can just be predisposed to an Achilles injury. I assume the same is true for hamstring injuries, calf injuries. Is there anything that certain players can do to like combat that sort of Thing I'm thinking about a guy like Zion Williamson who will be healthy for 10 or 15 games. And then it seems like a hamstring injury is always the thing that always seems to take him down. Are there ways to sort of battle those things that just keep popping up?

Dr. James Borchers (18:19)

Well, yeah, the first thing is, is don't get injured. I mean, the most predictive thing for those kind of injuries are previous injuries. So the more of them you have, the more likely you are to injure, you know, a hamstring or, you know, a calf. But the other thing is paying attention to what we call prehab, or doing the things, you know, that are going to help to prevent injury rather than just playing your sport. And dedicating is about as much time to that as you do to your sport. Because if you're not healthy, you're not helping your team. And so if you're predisposed to that kind of injury, if you've had that kind of injury, you got to almost double down and spend as much time with a therapist or rehabilitation specialist, athletic trainer to make certain that you're doing all of the preventative exercise, all the preventative flexibility treatment that you can to avoid that type of injury. But in any sport, and especially in a sport like basketball, if you've had a previous hamstring or calf injury, and if you've had recurrent injuries, the risk of that injury goes way up. And so the, the, as you guys know, just look at the players. If you don't have injury, you're just so much less likely to be injured.

Tas Melas (19:23)

One interesting thing we see in the NBA is there haven't been a ton of injuries with specifically tall players recently, but players are getting taller, lineups are getting taller. And I don't know if there's something that.

Tas Melas (19:39)

We can just say, well, those players are going to get injured more, but really they haven't. Are these taller lineups that are happening in the NBA something that should be looked at, speculated, worried about? Because really it hasn't been something that has been a problem in recent history. As we see this graph from their.

JD (19:59)

Legs are simply too long tasks.

Tas Melas (20:02)

They're getting taller mainly because they are getting more skilled. The taller players are getting more skilled. So we're seeing them and, and coaches are saying we got to go bigger. Is that something that we should be watching or is there anything to note of players height right now?

Dr. James Borchers (20:17)

Well, I actually think that if you look back in history, think about the tall players. I'm thinking about a guy like Greg Odin. I mean Just playing down in the basket. His skill set, you know, of tall players was really in the post. But look at it, look at the skill set in the athletic development of taller players today. I mean, the way they handle the ball, the way they move is so much better than what it was in the past. And so I think that again, in that development of being an athlete, of, of how you develop your skill set is so important, much more so than the height of a player. So I think you look at a guy like, you know, Katie or one of these guys, you know, I mean, look at how they move, look at how they handle the ball. Look at their athleticism as opposed to how they run. I mean, think about that and then look at the people that have had a lot of injuries, foot injuries, and thinking about how they moved and, and the, you know, what they were, what people were doing and you know, the older era, I guess, of the NBA and you know, at a younger age, these, these taller athletes are developing a better skill set. They're better athletes and they're actually going to be better off again if they're doing things other than just, you know, standing in the post all the time or doing the same activity all the time. So I, I don't know that height matters as much as some of the things we've talked about before, but I just think you're just seeing amazing athletic ability out of taller athletes, which I would say, you know, if you look at generations past, decades past, we just didn't see that type of athleticism out of, you know, taller athletes because they were kind of put into a certain position until we could learn that, hey, they really can be athletic, they can do some different things.

Tas Melas (22:00)

No, to hear the positivity is fantastic. To hear that the game, the game is better. As we've been watching it get better, as you said, we've been doing this show forever. And yes, taller players just have better skill sets.

JD (22:16)

They can do stuff now.

Tas Melas (22:18)

They can do amazing stuff.

Dr. James Borchers (22:19)

For people that are 7ft tall, I mean, to watch that, I mean, look, guys, 15 years ago, if you'd have seen a seven footer, you just say, get down on the block. You know, every once in a while, you know, you saw a guy like Shaq could run the floor or whatever, but he rolls out on the perimeter handling the ball. I mean, you know, look at, I mean, it's just amazing to watch some of these, these guys today and the.

Tas Melas (22:39)

Skills that they've developed and your, your work with, as I said, the youth level and college high School as well. Do you see.

Tas Melas (22:49)

All, all players just sort of working on that skill set? No matter the height, Is it just what is happening at that level? They're just taught in a different way now.

Dr. James Borchers (22:59)

I think it's the game. I think you just see a different approach to the game of basketball. I think how people approach the game of basketball and what they, you know, are modeling, for example, after these NBA players, it doesn't matter that you're tall, you can still develop an incredible athletic skill set. And these kids are asked to do that now because you can see the effect it can have on the game. So rather than just spending all your time, you know, down in the lane and you know, guarding the post and doing those sorts of things, I think certainly the way the game's played and the way the game's being played at youth and high school and college level is different. And that allows, you know, those athletes to develop that skill set.

JD (23:42)

And it's a lot more fun too, because if you were a big guy in the 1990s, you had to wait for a guard to pass you the ball rather than just going out there and getting it yourself. Steve Kerr is a guy who's been really outspoken about the increased rate of injuries in the NBA. He's blamed some of the problem on the increased pace. He's also had a lot of things to say about the warriors schedule early in the season with them playing multiple back to backs and having to travel across the country a whole bunch of times. So to me there's kind of like three pieces to what Steve Kerr has been saying. The pace of the game, the schedule, and just the amount of games that they're playing on a night to night basis and the travel in between the games. Is there something that you see that's kind of the biggest factor in the increased rate of injuries?

Dr. James Borchers (24:28)

Well, I think it's how do athletes recover? And I think all three of those things play into that. Look, I think the secret sauce to athletics today is recovery. How do you recover physically, mentally, emotionally? All that allows you to perform at your highest level. And if you're not able to do that because you're not sleeping well, because you're traveling a lot, because you're, you've got back to back contests, because you don't ever have any time to practice or to, you know, to do the things that you need to get your body to recover. If your nutrition isn't good, if your hydration isn't good, all of that is going to add up and lead to More wear and tear. What we see. And I know people talk about, oh, that's the way it was in the past, but I don't think we see, saw as much of maybe what coach, you know, what Steve's referring to as, you know, the travel, the back to backs, how the game's played today, are we taking all that into consideration and then thinking about what an athlete needs to be able to perform. And so I think all of those play a huge role. But you guys know, just like anybody else, take a couple of coast to coast flights and see how you feel even if you're not an NBA player and if you don't have the right sleep and your sleep gets disrupted and hydration, you do as much as you can to mitigate that. I know that the NBA and their teams put a ton of study into how to best do that. But look, you get done with a game and you got to jump on a plane or you got to fly somewhere, you've crossed time zones, you're sleeping differently, how's your nutrition? Even if you pay attention to all that, fatigue's going to set in and.

Dr. James Borchers (26:00)

You'Re going to be at risk. So I think all of those things play a role in how athletes recover and then ultimately how they perform and what risk they're at.

JD (26:12)

Yeah, I'm already thinking about my load management plan for the holidays because I know it's going to throw me off from a living standpoint, traveling back and forth and just eating for, you know, a week and a half straight. But listening to you talk, doc, it sounds like you are generally in support of the way that NBA players have gotten smarter about load management and you know, resting. Maybe the third night of three games in four nights or the second night of a back to back there was the big player participation policy, which came into effect in the NBA quite recently, to keep the star players on the court. But it sounds like in general you would support the plans that have been put in place where we want our stars on the court as much as possible, but the way to keep them on the court is by keeping them healthy.

Dr. James Borchers (27:02)

Yeah, there's no question. I mean, I don't think it's fair to ask any athlete, regardless of the level, to try to compete in conditions where they're just not able to perform at their best. And you know, what does your best look like? Not everybody has it every night. But you know, let's, let's make certain that we recognize how people perform at their best and what we're asking them to do. And, and how that maybe look different today than it maybe did in, in generations past. And especially I just think looking at the athletes and I, I just can't emphasize it enough. I just think it's different what these athletes have done in the you athletic space coming up and that wear and tear on their body is just different than it was 25, 30 years ago. Kids are doing different things. They're playing multiple sports. They, they weren't playing as much aau, they weren't traveling as much. They, they just didn't have those sorts of effects. So I think you got to take all that into account and, and you know, make the best plan you can moving forward. I think people just need to recognize that just because you got three games in four nights and maybe somebody's sitting out that third game. It's, it's not just that third game that's part of the issue. And it's not just what's going on this season that's part of the issue. It's part of the whole environment around sport. And it might be what that 24, 25 or 30 year old was doing when they were 15. That's a lot different than what a generation ago was doing when they were 15. That's leading to some of this.

Tas Melas (28:28)

We've got to shorten the season.

JD (28:30)

We've said.

JD (28:32)

It sounds like a lot of the cause is too much basketball.

JD (28:37)

Unfortunately.

Tas Melas (28:38)

Yeah, one thing that we, I think.

Dr. James Borchers (28:40)

At a young age, yeah, I do, I think, I think, you know, like I told you guys, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th graders and the amount of basketball that they're playing, amount of any sport that they're playing, if they're specializing, it's crazy. I mean, I, look, I'm an old guy now, but I think back to the days, you know, think about that kind of sports specialization. First of all, my parents would have never, you know, would have never done that. You just played for your school. But now, I mean you've got kids that are playing way more than 82 games in a year in their own, you know, in their own season. So I, yeah, I do. I think sports specialization, a youth level is a huge deal. And just look at the athletes and I just told you guys, you know, if you get injured, the likelihood of re injury is so much greater. And that carries through with you. That doesn't go away.

Tas Melas (29:28)

Before we let you go, I want to end on one positive note. You said the 82 games, we are seeing players play more of those 82 game seasons than in prior eras of the NBA guys are just having longer careers. Is it the recovery, the knowledge that that's what comes along with being an NBA player now, how they take care of their bodies.

Dr. James Borchers (29:50)

You just can't believe the amount of emphasis right, on how they recover, what they're putting into their, you know, recovery, how they pay attention to what they eat, the teams they surround themselves with. And I think, you know, it's incredible to see the commitment that, you know, people can make and be playing into their 30s and 40s and, you know, and look at what they're able to, you know, what they're able to do. But that. That takes an amazing commitment. It takes an amazing team around you. It takes amazing dedication. And not to say that, you know, people weren't dedicated like that, but we understand the science better now. We understand what it takes to perform at your highest for a longer period of time. And I just think you see more athletes dedicated to their craft, dedicated to what it takes to do that for a long period of time. And I think that helps, obviously, in those prolonged careers that we're seeing now. It's just amazing to see how long some of these folks are playing. But I. I know what some of these guys do in the off season. I know what some of them are doing in the season and how much time and how many of their own resources they're dedicating to that. And I think that's why you're seeing it.

JD (31:00)

Well, you said you're an old guy, so are we. We're trying to prolong our careers as well. We don't have the resources that a LeBron James has to pour into his body to stay healthy at 41. What's something that us normal people can do to stay healthy when we're trying to get out there and, you know, make a highlight reel for Instagram?

Dr. James Borchers (31:22)

Yeah, I think there's kind of three, you know, things that you can do. One right, is exercise every day. And that doesn't mean that you got to go, you know, you know, destroy yourself every day. But I think exercise, you know, you're moving, you're doing things, obviously, is going to keep you healthy. Number two is nutrition. Paying attention to nutrition, you got to live life. But, you know, how do you. How do you eat and how do you take care of yourself? And then I think the third thing is, you know, do you give yourself a chance to recover? I mean, we. Our society's so used to burning the candle, and I'm guilty of this, you know, put in these huge days and, you know, do you rest? Do you recover? Do you take time to, you know, gear back a little bit? Are you sleeping appropriately? And I think if you follow those things, you're going to prolong a lot, right? You're going to, you're going to be able to do things for longer and be able to do the things you like to do for longer. So I think if you take what's my activity level look like? Am I active every day? Do I pay attention to my nutrition and then do I find a way to recover? Do I sleep well? Do I find some time where I'm gearing back and not letting stress and all those things affect me? If you can accomplish that, I think you got a great chance to be healthy and happy and do the things that you like to do.

JD (32:38)

I was worried you were gonna say sleep. I knew it was coming up, but it was so fun to watch those west coast games. You know.

Dr. James Borchers (32:45)

You can wear all the wearables you want. You can take all the supplements you want. The best recovery modality out there is sleep and there's nothing that substitutes for it. So if you don't sleep, you can do all these other things and you can monitor all these other things.

Dr. James Borchers (33:01)

Sleep is, you know, it's just imperative. It's just, it's kind of the secret sauce as I tell people to like, you don't have to invest much in it except your time and commitment to doing it.

JD (33:12)

Yep, exactly.

Tas Melas (33:13)

Yeah, yeah. Commitment to doing sleep is free.

JD (33:16)

One of the few things out there.

Dr. James Borchers (33:18)

That's right. Sleep is free.

Tas Melas (33:20)

Yeah. Well, we won't let force you to listen to this story. I've got, Jim about my lack of sleep last night. It was just too hot. It's too hot in my bed. My wife and I. My wife and I have had separate blankets for years. Anyways, let's. We'll stop there. Jim, thank you so much for coming on. Hope to have you back on later in the season. Appreciate you coming on.

Dr. James Borchers (33:44)

Yeah, thanks guys. Anytime. Really enjoyed it.

Tas Melas (33:46)

All right, Jim. Dr. James Borchus joining us today. We've got lots to get to. We got Franz Wagner injury news. We got to talk about palenty of other trade proposals. What are you. What are you smiling about?

JD (34:01)

I slept bad last night too. It was hot in my room as well. Yeah, I, I'll play the last five minutes for our, for our wives.

Tas Melas (34:10)

Yeah, no, we're turning down the temps cover. Well, mine was that it was too cold in my room last Friday. So we went back to the, the, the heavy duvet on my side because I woke up because it was too cold and I was too hot. I was sweating. All right, I was sweating. I was sweating hotter than a workout that I do. It's literally, I'm still wet. Anyways.

Tas Melas (34:38)

We'Ll get to everything I mentioned there, but first word from our sponsors.

JD (34:42)

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JD (34:51)

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Tas Melas (35:28)

Back with the show? I'm actually just went to FanDuel to see if they added a line on how many Games Joel Embiid vs. LeBron James will play in the future. Who's going to play more? Essentially, they haven't added it. I wouldn't mind just like a private website. Private URL in FanDuel for us. Even if you're not going to put it out there, put it out there for us because it's a. That's a great question.

JD (35:50)

Money, Malice's Picks. Who would you take? LeBron or Joel Embiid?

Tas Melas (35:56)

I got Embiid in part because I don't know when LeBron's retiring.

JD (35:59)

It might be this year, could be his last year.

Tas Melas (36:01)

Yeah. So I'm. I'm taking the guy who's getting paid for multiple years beyond this one.

JD (36:06)

Yeah. But I guess the. The argument would be that even if LeBron only plays one season, maybe he plays more games in one season than Embiid plays in the next three and a half.

Tas Melas (36:16)

I agree. That's why it's a great bet.

JD (36:18)

All right, so I would say, if I were setting the line, I would say Fanduel goes Embiid minus 150.

Tas Melas (36:25)

So he's the heavy favorite.

JD (36:26)

He's the favorite.

Tas Melas (36:27)

Yeah.

JD (36:28)

That's a pretty strong favorite.

Tas Melas (36:29)

Yeah. Maybe. I think you're going a little too heavy. I think it's.

JD (36:32)

All right.

Tas Melas (36:33)

Fine.

JD (36:33)

Minus 120.

Tas Melas (36:34)

Yeah. Minus 120.

JD (36:35)

He's coming down the other side.

Tas Melas (36:36)

Apparently I'm still taking him.

JD (36:39)

Get Your votes in. I'll throw a pull up here in a second on. I can do that while I talk about Franz Wagner. The Magic got some sort of good news yesterday. Franz Wagner avoided a major injury as an MRI showed no damage to his knee. But he's got a high ankle sprain after taking that hard fall against the Knicks. Now, there's no official timeline for his return. That's just how the Magic do things. But a high ankle sprain usually keeps players out two to four weeks. The Magic said it'll depend on how Franz responds to the treatment. So they're kind of just treating this as an ankle sprain and saying, hey, whenever he's back, he will be back. What do you think about this task, Franz Wagner avoiding a major, major injury?

Tas Melas (37:20)

Yeah, I think you got to be extremely happy that no tendon, no soft tissue injury. As Dr. Borchers mentioned there, that's. That's the optimal experience. No knee ligament, no tendon. It's a high ankle sprain. As Shams originally reported.

Tas Melas (37:41)

The general return is two to four weeks. So, yeah, it's, it's. It's an optimal situation. And I kind of. I think this has become a habit of NBA teams now just to say we are not setting a timeline. And if we do set a timeline, it's way few further in the future than his actual return date. I think that's happening more and more. We saw it a little bit with Luca earlier this year. Now, not wasn't way further in the future, but, you know, a week when he'll be re evaluated. And he came back in, you know, six days. There's another one that I'm forgetting about already. That already happened. There was definitely another one. So. Yeah, yeah.

JD (38:24)

Ad maybe I don't know what it was. Somebody came back from a calf strain a little bit early.

Tas Melas (38:27)

Yeah. So in this situation, Palonchiro now has the opportunity just to be more of the guy.

Tas Melas (38:37)

Is that a bad thing? I know you mentioned that you're. You're kind of cognizant of what's happening there in Orlando.

JD (38:43)

Well, I like Paolo as a player for sure, but the Magic took off when he went down with injury. They had started turning things around before he went down with his malady. The thing with Paulo is that he handles the ball and pounds the ball lot more than Franz Vargas does. Franz will get off of it as soon as it's time to get off of it. He's a right play machine, and Paulo's not always that guy. But I think in his couple of games. Returning to the Magic before Franz went out with injury, he was really trying to fit in with what they were doing. They're playing a lot more guards, they are moving the ball quickly in the half court scenarios. They're actually scoring a bunch of fast break points. And it looked to me like he was trying to be a part of what the Magic had going on. They need him to both fit in and fit out at the same time. They need him to be the guy who can score in the last five seconds of a shot clock, even though Desmond Bain has been really good doing that the past couple of weeks. But they also need him to move the ball the way Franz did, to get off of it when it's time to not be the one who has to have the assist, just be the guy who gets the ball moving. So I think he can do that. It's just going to be a different sort of style of play for Paolo than what we've seen. And, you know, fewer mid range jumpers I think is good. Getting to the rim is good. Franz is getting downhill consistently. But it looked like a concerted effort on Bonchero's part to try and be a part of what the Magic have going on. So I'm a little optimistic that he can blend the way he usually plays with the way that Franz Wagner usually plays. Bad news, though, I would say for the Magic's cup chances are, unfortunately, but good news, all things considered. With the way he went down, it looked nasty. So if he only misses a month, I think even that would be awesome.

Tas Melas (40:29)

Right, right, right. And they're going to hold him out, you know, the longer the better, as we see with a lot of scenarios here. Giannis de Gumpo out, you know, two to four weeks. And Doc has said we are going to push it. We know Giannis wants to push it the other way. He wants to come back as soon as possible because that's the Aniston of Guppo. But we're going to push it the other direction. They're busy practicing. Four days off, he said we got four days off in between games. Two of those days we're going to take off because they can relax, which was, I thought was interesting.

JD (41:00)

It's about recovery, man.

Tas Melas (41:01)

It is about recovery. It's very, very important. LeBron James knows about that. And that's why in our poll, I'm a little surprised. Two thirds of people, 67% of people, think LeBron James is going to play more games in the rest of his career and Rap Stallion 6615 jumps in. And he said if you make that an official poll, it'll give Braun the inspiration to prove the Embiid voters wrong. He'd play till 60 if need be. I disagree with that. I think he's kind of done with any. Any sort of accolades or numbers. I don't even know if he really cares if he gets to Robert Parish's most games played record, which he could this year if he played, you know, all the way through the end of the season.

JD (41:44)

Yeah, it's like really close now.

Tas Melas (41:45)

Right.

JD (41:45)

With how many games he missed at the beginning of the season.

Tas Melas (41:47)

I think he's kind of done with that.

JD (41:49)

I don't. I think LeBron is very aware of every record he has a chance of possibly setting, so I think he will stay around until he has that one. For sure. It might be this year.

Tas Melas (41:57)

Yeah. I just don't think it's even. It's not that much of a record. But, you know, you're right. I know that's one that could be passed one day, you know, maybe. No way now.

JD (42:08)

Well, I mean, I guess I wouldn't have thought that Robert Parish would get broken. But then once players started coming into the NBA as high school players again, it opened the door for that being the case. But I mean, there's nobody like LeBron who started when he was 18 and is still going at 41, nearly 41, and it doesn't feel like this is his last season. We will know ahead of time when it's LeBron's last season, unlike Chris Paul.

Tas Melas (42:31)

So interesting. Interesting debate, maybe. Well, right. It's unlikely that this is his last season.

JD (42:38)

He's just going to retire at the end of a year. No way.

Tas Melas (42:41)

Unlikely.

JD (42:41)

The retirement tour.

Tas Melas (42:43)

Yeah, but at this. I know, but at the same time, he didn't even play to start this season. Do you want to make your. Your tour a time when you don't show up?

JD (42:55)

Like, first time ever in his life, he said even when he's a nine year old, he was playing at the start of the season. He's saying that won't happen again next year. Celebrate me when I'm back in Cleveland helping them try and win another title. Just watch that.

Tas Melas (43:08)

Yeah.

JD (43:08)

Start his. End his career where he started it.

Tas Melas (43:10)

Maybe it'll be a Chris Paulette. Yeah, for sure. Maybe he'll be a Chris Paul and announce it a month in, knowing it's like, okay, maybe if things don't go well here in, in December, where he starts to feel older, it'll be like, all right, I'm done. I'll let you guys know. But you're right. He's sure he feel hitting Chris Paul. He. He is still LeBron James. So he could last more.

JD (43:30)

In other Magic news, Desmond bane was fined $35,000 for chucking that ball at OG Anunoby. Second find of the year for Desmond Bain. He got docked $2,000 for his ejection in the Hawks game where he wasn't as nasty of a throw off a neck of congu. It was more of like a. Like a volleyball spike. Yeah, that one.

Tas Melas (43:51)

This was hilarious.

JD (43:52)

This one was hilarious. Worth it, you think?

Tas Melas (43:54)

Yeah.

JD (43:55)

Throw the ball that hard, I think you should be allowed to do that.

Tas Melas (43:58)

Yeah. And I, I would say, you know, after the spike on Nanyeka Kongwu, the Magic, they turn things around. I got a weak whistle today. They turned things around. Bodes well for their NBA cup game tonight in their quarterfinal against the Miami Heat.

JD (44:15)

We shall see. 20, 22. Also, Bane was fined for kicking the ball into the stands as an underrated temper boy. You know, Desmond Bain likes to get into it with some people. Maybe tonight with the bright lights of the cup game sh upon him, we'll see it some more anger.

Tas Melas (44:32)

It was. It was hilarious.

JD (44:33)

Though it is pretty funny to watch. He didn't need to do that. He could have just turned and took the ball down to court.

Tas Melas (44:39)

Yeah, he just threw it off him. Hey, it's off him. We're good.

JD (44:43)

Our ball. And last night's action.

Odoo Advertiser (44:46)

Action.

JD (44:47)

Last night's action. Anthony Edwards scored 40 points, but the sun snapped the Timberwolves five game win streak thanks to a big night from Money. Mark Williams in a sick rookie battle. Derek Queen got his first triple double, but Dylan Harper got his first game winners. The spurs beat the Pels. Fun one down in New Orleans and the Pacers beat the Kings, thanks to 28 and 12 from Andrew Nemhardt. Any of these games interest you, Tassie?

Tas Melas (45:10)

Well, that Phoenix, Minnesota game, it's so fun. We try and talk about everything and every player and I know I give Colin Gillespie lots of love, but Mark Williams, as you just said, he's freaking important for that team. And somehow he's. He's playing and is not getting injured. And speaking of temper boys, Rudy Gobert pushed him to get ejected in the third quarter. That was pretty key in this game. And then Colin Gillespie caught fire in the fourth quarter, scoring 11 points for them. He had a step back. He got space on Jamie McDaniels on a drive. Was there a Little bit of a chicken arm. I don't think it was a chicken arm. I think he just. He just had his arm there and it wasn't a push off. But the guy scoring 11 points in the fourth quarter is so key. If the Minnesota Timberwolves could just pluck Colin Gillespie off the other team's bench and put him on theirs, they would be so excited because they are so desperate for another guard. You saw Bones Highland playing in the fourth quarter for this team. That guy had played one minute over the previous three weeks, about three weeks of games, and then he hit three buckets in the fourth quarter.

JD (46:12)

Yeah, he's doing a little. A little celebration.

Tas Melas (46:14)

He's already celebrating.

JD (46:15)

Yeah.

Tas Melas (46:16)

Hitting a shot. Now, I'm not saying that that's going to be the future of the Minnesota Timberwolves, but that's how desperate they are.

JD (46:22)

Exactly. Like he had barely played and they dusted him off and he actually played pretty well. But I don't think a reliable option for the Timberwolves. And like you're saying, they just don't have reliable options because otherwise, Edwards played well, Randall played pretty well. Gobert was doing well until he went crazy and, you know, knocked Mark Williams out of the air. Super dangerous play. He deserved to be ejected for hitting a guy as he was jumping. But Mark Williams is also taking it to him on the other end. I thought he played really well. Six sons in double digits. I do think it's interesting, though. Fifth 40 point game of the season for Anthony Edwards and the timberwolves are only 2 and 3 when he goes for 40. The guy's having an awesome year. He's almost a 50, 40, 90 player, averaging like 28 a game, but similar to the way Donovan Mitchell has played with the Cavaliers. Sometimes it's just like you have to score this many points for us to do anything on the offensive end of the court. So nice stuff for the Suns to get that road win without Booker. But I really think the Timberwolves are a team that's in need of some sort of a trade to take a little bit of a step forward in the West.

Tas Melas (47:31)

Yeah, I know. I talked about Chris Paul as soon as he announced his retirement. I thought if he's going to get traded to a team that has any hopes that Minnesota would be it. But at the same time, he definitely needs somebody who can create for himself. And as great as Chris Paul is, it's not him right now. I think anything would help. We've seen it in the past. They. They try many guys, they've tried, you know, Monte Morris last year. They try guys to, to be that other one besides Anthony Edwards who can create for himself. So I don't know how much Bones island plays for this team, but Anthony Edwards, apparently he talks to the coaches every day trying to get Bones island involved. And yeah, it's not Rob Dillingham and it's. They're desperate. They're desperate for somebody.

JD (48:24)

Yeah, I think Bones Highland is a player that players love because he can score like he's a great one on one player and he can get a bucket. And that's probably why Anthony Edwards has a lot of respect for him. And certainly Austin Rivers had a ton of respect for this guy on the broadcast last night. He could not stop talking Bones Highland up as if Bones Highland has really established himself in the NBA. So of course I had to go and figure out why is Austin Rivers love Bones Highland so much. Oh, he played as a Denver Nugget when Bones Highland was a rookie. I can see him taking Bones Highland under him his wing and say, here's how you ISO buddy. Here's how you chuck up some shots.

Tas Melas (49:03)

That's funny. Yeah.

JD (49:04)

Who was the other guy on the broadcast with them? I didn't know who that guy was.

Tas Melas (49:08)

I wasn't tuning in. It was Ravi Hummel.

JD (49:10)

No, no, it wasn't. It was Noah Eagle. It was Austin Rivers. And then the other guy who was on the sun's bench, I. They kept going to him, but I didn't recognize him and I didn't know who his voice was. And I just never heard them say what his name was. Let me know who that guy was and let me know how it's possible. Grayson Allen did a step back, step through jumper, took two steps to his left. Pump fake the three steps through perfectly. Shoots like a 20 foot floater. Swished it in. This was beautiful. A guy like Grayson Allen shouldn't be able to pull that off. That's what Dr. James is talking about. Players are too good these days. You got Grayson Allen pulling off James Harden moves.

Tas Melas (49:48)

So you're telling me you're supportive of that totally legal move?

JD (49:53)

Footwork was clean.

Tas Melas (49:54)

It was, it was. I know people were hating.

Tas Melas (49:59)

Looked. It looked weird.

JD (50:01)

He takes three steps without going, without dribbling and he goes all over the place.

Tas Melas (50:05)

But covered so much court.

JD (50:08)

Legal Eagle.

Tas Melas (50:09)

It was pretty impressive. So you're cool with Anthony Edwards being selected for the all star team? Because I know you were contemplating maybe Julius Randall deserves a little bit more love on this team. But Anthony Edwards, they need an All Star.

JD (50:22)

And Ant is the guy for sure. He is, he is. You know, I feel the same way about him and Randall, that they are both really good players.

JD (50:34)

They're instrumental to the Timberwolves chances and them getting wins. But there are times when it feels like they're just piling up numbers and it doesn't necessarily have an effect on the way the team is rolling.

Tas Melas (50:44)

Well, let's give a little love to the, the spurs and how they handled the end of that game because they beat the Pels and it should have been, it shouldn't have been as close as it was. But watching Dylan Harper with that essentially the game winner taken as Sadiq Bay into the paint. That guy had four buckets at the rim over the last six minutes of this game. He was taking whoever it was. You get an incredible guy like Herb Jones on him. He went by him. He had a Jose Alvarado who did a really good job staying in front that one time. That was the. The spin got stopped and spin the other direction. That was freaking awesome. And they've got great vibes. I don't know when Wemby comes back, but to see Harper out there and Fox and Castle now who's back, they're just, they're cohesive. And if you, if you believe the post game interviews on the press conference table, Dylan Harper said, quote, there's no ego between us three. We all just want to see each other succeed no matter what. End quote. That's a rook talking about himself and Fox who's signed this monster contract. And Castle, is he just a rook saying the right things? And I buy in.

JD (51:50)

I buy at least he's saying the right things. And the way he plays, it feels like he's about the right things. Dylan Harper, I think the same is true for Stefan Castle. It's like they're all taking big shots when they need to. Fox hit a deep step back too. That was big time in this game. Made the clutch free throws as well. But like you're saying, it was Harper who was carrying the team through the majority of the fourth quarter. Some of those finishes were tough, man. He's going with his right hand, playing with his offhand, playing through contact. I was super impressed. Wemby's back practicing now, I believe. So he's on the way to his return. The spurs have done a great job without him. In their last 10 games, they're 7 and 3. They got the sixth best offense in the league, but I think they're also like bottom six. They're 24th in defense in those 10 games. WEMBY will change that. He's a defense as soon as he comes back. If they're able to play offense at the level they have since he's gone down with injury, the spurs become a real second tier contender. I think in the Western Conference they've really clicked. Very, very impressive the way they do things. I think it's because the pregame music that Keldon Johnson chooses. Oh, yeah, he had A Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton going on. Everybody loving it. Except for Harrison Barnes, who just got his hands on his head cam. Like, are we seriously listening to Vanessa Carlton right now? Oh, I guess these young boys love it.

Tas Melas (53:10)

That with JD Was Vanessa Carlton one of your, your Spotify?

Odoo Advertiser (53:16)

A hundred percent.

Tas Melas (53:17)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tas Melas (53:19)

They literally. It's incredible that they are one game back of the second seed. They are so freaking close. I mean, it's super tight. Yeah. Between two and five. Lakers, Nuggets, Rocket, Spurs. But without Wemby and as you said, could be coming back. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him take the court in the NBA cup game.

JD (53:38)

Ooh, the Willis Reed of the Cup. He's back.

Tas Melas (53:44)

Do they need him? Yeah, it would be nice. They're playing super, super, super good teams now. But Dylan Harper was freaking. I always expect him to see watching him, you expect him to go left, but he can easily go right. He can score wherever. So that's fun to watch.

JD (53:59)

Man gets downhill all the time. That was a fun game. Great stuff from Derek Wein. We'll talk about him in a little bit. Pacers have won for their last six and they got their guys healthy. They beat the Bulls twice. They beat the Wizards. They beat the Kings last night. Only three and a half games out of 10th place in the Eastern Conference.

Tas Melas (54:17)

Oh, yeah.

JD (54:18)

I don't think they're dead yet.

Tas Melas (54:19)

No.

JD (54:20)

And you know, we'll see what happens with the BU going forward. I see. Shams just said that the writing is on the wall when it comes to trading Giannis. The Bulls have been terrible for two weeks. There's a chance the Pacers make a run at the play in tournament, I would say. And a new guy alert. New guy alert for the Pacers. Ethan Thompson. I guess he's played four games. This is the first time I've seen him three offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter. Pacer scored four points on those plays. He's the first Ethan in NBA history.

Tas Melas (54:51)

Huh?

JD (54:52)

How about that? We've had an Eton Thomas. I know that's what you were thinking. You're like, what about Eton Thomas? But he was Eton, not Ethan.

Tas Melas (55:01)

I was totally shocked when you said that. I didn't think of Eton Thomas at all. I just would think that there'd be one from like the 50s or 60s or something. Yeah, it's a popular name.

JD (55:12)

There's a lot of Ethan's. I've met a lot of Ethan's.

Tas Melas (55:15)

A lot of kids.

JD (55:15)

Yep.

Tas Melas (55:16)

So there will be plenty more NBA players named Ethan.

JD (55:19)

Just the first.

Tas Melas (55:20)

Just the first. Yeah.

JD (55:22)

They're all looking up to Ethan Thompson. They're saying, remember when he got those three offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter? The Pacer scored four points. How exciting. Got a couple of minor slap drops recently. Let's talk about them in the up down report.

JD (55:44)

Oh yeah. We're slowly but surely walking into slop season. The troughs are filling up. The People's insider, Jake Fisher had some fresh intel over on the Steinline substack writing that the Miami Heat are looking like a buyer at the trade deadline and they have had internal discussions about trading with Memphis for John Morant. Task you up or down on the Heat? Trading for Jah.

Tas Melas (56:08)

I'm still down. I was down when the John Morant rumor started. I. I would find it difficult to take him on. If you're the Miami Heat, you'd probably be trading Tyler Hero back. Those two guys are such, you know, in similar roles. But I'm buying the devil that I know in Tyler Hero, you know that he is going to number one more likely play than John Moran. He played 77 games last year. I think. Can he even grow even more? I think there's a possibility those two guys in Morant and Hero came into the league at the same time. They're in the same draft. And I think it's fair to question. Oh, well, it's. It's been fair to question. I should say that Tyler Hero may or may not be the guy on a good team. He can't play D well. He's adapted. They were part of. He was part of a great defense last year. He could still grow and get better. As we're sort of contemplating about John Morant, will he come back now? There's a possibility he does come back to his form. There is. But I couldn't do it. I just. I just couldn't do it if I was the Miami Heat. Knowing that we are fairly successful in what we're doing right now, I think that's a risk that you'd rather take with the devil that you know again, that Tyler Heroes freaking solid He's a solid player. He's still young. I wouldn't risk it.

JD (57:33)

Yeah, I actually agree with you here. Hero's contract is a little bit cheaper. It's one year shorter, and he's a much better shooter, which I think is something that the Heat need. They're similar ages. I think there's like six months difference between the two of them. And it seems to me that Hero, at the very least, is maintaining his status as a player. And whereas JA has been declining for the past couple of years. And the athleticism piece is a big part of it. Right. Like, I think Hero's going to be able to continue to shoot threes and shoot off the dribble, and Jaw is being forced to shoot off the dribble at this point in his career, and it's not exactly coming around, but if you're making the devil's advocate case. Last 15 games for the Heat, they're 13th in offense, 11th in defense, 13th in net rating. So just a fine, good team.

Tas Melas (58:19)

Yep.

JD (58:19)

They're only 5 and 8 this season against teams that are.500 or better. So to me, it seems like the Heat could use a boost. Like, the Eastern Conference feels very wide open. Pistons have played great, Knicks are really rounding into form, but neither of those teams feels unbeatable to me. So I guess, you know, side up, down. Question for you here, up or down? Should the Heat be buyers at the deadline?

Tas Melas (58:44)

Oh, I think they should be buyers, yeah.

Tas Melas (58:47)

It's all about the package and what they're getting back, I think right here, right now. Like you said about their last 13 games, Tyler Hero has only played five games this season. So that kind of goes against the argument that, oh, he plays more than John Morant, but he does, literally. We just haven't seen the best of him quite this season, although he's come in and played really well, but he has to adapt and play with them. But I think you look up and down the roster, they've got tradable contracts that they could assemble together. You know, going back to the Damian Lillard rumors when he was in Portland. They've always been looking. They're always looking. So I. I think that, yes, they need to get better. Eric Spoels are creating that offense that is drive, kick, drive kick, everybody move, everybody run. That's optimizing what they are right here, right now. But we know in the playoffs, it ain't good enough to really go extremely deep. So, yeah, I think they should, if they could. Yeah. Get somebody.

JD (59:39)

Yeah, it looks like they could make A move. They could be a top four team, I think, in the east. And right now, if you're a top four team, like, you're taking your chances. I think if you're top four in the east, like, maybe we can make something happen in the playoffs if the bracket breaks correctly.

Tas Melas (59:51)

That's the time.

JD (59:52)

It's the time.

Tas Melas (59:53)

Feels like the year. Although, you know, we just talked to Dr. Jim Borchers about players coming back. And the more I hear about Jason Tatum, the more I'm starting to buy that he's coming back. And that's a team that could be fricking awesome. I know we talked about it yesterday. I know Bill Simmons has said, I've never felt better about Jason Tatum coming back. I get it. But at the same time, you're right. This is a great year. If you're in the Eastern Conference to put it all together, Pistons, Knicks, Celtics are the ones at the top. But the Magic are knocking. And then, yeah, you're, you're hoping if you're like a Miami Heat team that somebody becomes available. No disrespect to the Cavs, but those are the teams. Yeah.

JD (60:32)

Right now, a lot of teams that could be the team to lose to the Thunder in the finals. A lot of teams out there. Over at the Athletic, our main man Chill Will Guillory wrote that the Pelicans have not yet engaged in any trade discussions for Zion Williamson, but they might trade either Herb Jones and or Trey Murphy if some team wows them with an offer. So, Tas, are you up or down on the Pels trading Herb or Trey?

Tas Melas (60:58)

I'm pretty down. I think they've got better options to trade. Dejante Murray is the guy who stands out to me. Speaking of injuries, he's got to come back. He can and he will come back in January, but he's just older and it's a better situation to deal him because at his age at 29, he doesn't fit in with this new Derek Queen led team at all. And I, I, I would be reluctant to trade either Trey Murphy or Herb Jones because they've got such good deals. Trey Murphy's only 25. He's got a great contract through 29. And Jones, he's a little older. And so that's why I'm kind of down. If there's anyone to trade, it would be him, I think, at 27. But his deal is so good till 2030. I wouldn't want to deal either of them. I understand that they probably want to get a pick back in the 26 draft to help out Queen and Fierce. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. So I think Dumars and Troy Weaver should be looking. But those two guys are they just fit contracts aren't crazy. Herb Jones is such a great locker room guy. He would be the one I'd think about at this point. But it all depends what's coming back with for them. And as far as a 2026 draft pick, it's got to be a good one. Can't just be hey first round pick. It doesn't mean that it's going to be a good pick. It could mean it's protected to some some degree.

Odoo Advertiser (62:20)

Yeah.

JD (62:21)

And that means it's probably unlikely that it's going to happen because a team that's going to have a good first round draft pick, it's probably not making a move for either Herb Jones or Trey Murphy. They both feel kind of like finishing pieces right to me. But that's why the Pelicans are in a really tough spot because they don't have their 26 pick. As everybody knows, they also have a pick swap with the hawks next season. 2027, thanks to the Dejounte Murray trade. If I'm not mistaken, New Orleans gets the worst pick between the Hawks and the Pelicans, but thankfully for them, this one is protected one through four. So they might just have to eat the 26 pick. That thing is long gone. They'll be drafting at the end of the first round, getting likely the Hawks pick this coming draft and then hopefully in 27 they stay bottomed out and actually hit a top four pick and get to keep their own pick. Cause that would be bad to lose like back to back top five picks when you're trying to build around fears and Queen. The other thing is that Trey Murphy and Herb Jones, their skill sets are kind of perfect around fears in the Queen being long wings, her more defensively tilted Trey, more of an offensively tilted guy. You see them working with both Fears and Queen, and those are spots that the Pelicans need to address and can help the development of their two rookies this season. But it's got to be a wow us with an offer is the way will put it. And I think that that's exactly right. If somebody comes through with a player that they really like, or if somebody comes through with a really juicy pick, then maybe you can make the move because there is a bit of an age difference, you know, five to seven years depending on whether it's Trey or her between the two young guys that at least helps you get back on the right track from a rebuilding standpoint. I was also surprised to see that Will had Jordan Poole and Dejante Murray as trade candidates. If they get offered anything, ship those guys out. Literally anything. Second round pick would be fine.

Tas Melas (64:24)

There's gotta be a team out there that's good, but isn't just given their own pick, that's given somebody else's team out there. It is somebody else's pick, I should say that could be an extremely good one because as you said, you're a good team and you want one of these finishing pieces. Somebody like, you know, one of the. The Herbs or the Trays. But is it a Dejante Murray? I mean, you'd have to go see him play number one. Yeah. And it's just too early in slop season to know which picks every team has. But I was. I'm already looking. There's got to be, again, a good team that's got a. A really good pick out there. Now, I'm not talking OKC with the Clippers pick because I don't think that that ain't gonna happen. That's. That would. That would be ridiculous. But the Pelicans, right here, right now, after giving away the 2026 pick, it would just be weird to get rid of any young, good player on a good contract. But I could see Dejante Murray, the pool one. You don't think they'd want a redo for, for that deal that's, you know, not optimal. A mere, you know, four months ago as well.

JD (65:31)

Right on his contract.

Tas Melas (65:34)

For what?

Odoo Advertiser (65:34)

I'm.

JD (65:35)

I'm dumb, man. I still think pool can be good in the right spot, but he needs to be in the right spot. He actually seem to have matured a little bit from like a leadership standpoint. He seems well liked on the Pelicans. And, you know, maybe that's because he's not doing anything ridiculous on the court because he's mostly just making faces on the sideline. But, I mean, those guys, neither Murray nor pool seem to be long term pieces for the Pelicans. So if there's a, you know, a fifth or sixth man that you like and somebody's willing to throw it in. Sure.

Tas Melas (66:08)

Yeah. Yeah. The pool thing, I'm a little reluctant to make the move.

JD (66:13)

You don't want to jump in the pool.

Tas Melas (66:15)

It seems like every year is last year. Not every year. Last year. And this year his coach likes him and says he's good. Like Brian Keefe liked him Exactly.

JD (66:26)

Good for the Wizards last year after.

Tas Melas (66:27)

He benched his ass. Then he's like, oh yeah, he's good off the bench. Exactly. Yeah.

JD (66:31)

The less pool you need, the better. He'll wear cool clothes every once in a while. He'll wear a Wizard robe and he'll talk about his cats. Nuts. That's just what Jordan Poole does.

Tas Melas (66:42)

He looks cool compared to Brian Keefe, that's for sure.

JD (66:47)

Okay, I agree.

Tas Melas (66:49)

I can't believe I just did a coach dirty. Why am I comparing a first time.

JD (66:54)

Coach in Brian Keefe and somehow he looks like he's 60 years old.

Tas Melas (66:57)

Yeah.

JD (66:57)

I don't know how that happened. That's a wild thing to me.

Tas Melas (67:00)

And they threw in Kevon Looney. Will Guillory threw in Kevon Looney as a rumor, which, yeah, any team would want him. Yes. Give on Looney. I thought he'd have a positive effect on Zion Williamson. I still think maybe if Kevon Looney was healthy to start the season, he literally wasn't playing, things would be different. But I bought into the Zion. I bought into what Zion was saying about two Mars Weaver, his. His own personal coach that helped him out last year, and Kevon Looney. But I was wrong.

JD (67:28)

You are like Charlie Brown with the football and Joe Dumars. Is Lucy holding it, just yanking it away from you time after time? First, it was the All Star Game. Zion Williams.

Tas Melas (67:40)

Don't blame Joe Dumar for the allstar game. I blame Joe for Zion. Sure. For the Pelicans. Don't blame him for the All Star Game. Blame Adam.

JD (67:49)

That one's on Adam.

Tas Melas (67:50)

Blame Mr. Beast. Blame Kevin Hart. They screwed up. I was literally thinking about Joe Dumars and what he said last year before. Before the All Star Game. Yeah, we interviewed him and he's. I asked him, is there going to be gaps between these games where it's just too long? And he said they, they got it taken care of. He didn't know.

JD (68:11)

They didn't have it taken care of.

Tas Melas (68:13)

He didn't know. He just said that. Obviously he wasn't dealing with that. That wasn't his part of his dominion. He just was coming on to say, I believe in it. And I still believe in Joe for believing in the All Star Game. It ain't dead, but he just didn't know about it. And so anyway, I. We gotta, we gotta grab that clip and I just gonna, I'm gonna make some sort of video of hoping that we don't get lied to again. They can't screw up again. They can't say, hey, Mr. Beast, come on the court for 15 minutes or Kevin Hart come, come talk for 15 minutes. Hey TNT, you're done, but you're not done, but you're done. So, you know, give us a goodbye. That can't happen again.

JD (68:53)

I can't happen again. But it's gonna happen. Another guy Joe Dumars believed in.

Tas Melas (68:59)

Whoa Boy.

JD (69:01)

Whoa Biggity boy. NBA line of the night brought to you today by Sammy J93. What said hi in the stream team with a 4.99 super chat. So you get to sponsor Whoa Boy for today.

Tas Melas (69:16)

I can't believe that I didn't see a 499er. Congrats.

JD (69:20)

Yeah. Deal compared to the last one.

Tas Melas (69:22)

That's true.

JD (69:23)

You never know. That's the only way to sponsor Whoa Boy. Hop in the super chats on the Stream team. Last night's Whoa Boy goes to Derrick Queen. Big boy grilling on the roof. 33 points, 10 rebounds, 10 assists. Four blocks for Derek Queen and the loss does not matter one 11 of 15 from the field, 11 of 13 at the free throw line. Did have four turnovers, but who cares? 10 assists became the eighth player since blocks have been recorded with a 33, 10 and 10 plus four blocks. And only the fifth player ever with a 30 point triple double before turning 21 years old. You know the other guys, you can get three of them easily.

Tas Melas (70:06)

Luca.

JD (70:07)

Yep.

Tas Melas (70:08)

LeBron.

Dr. James Borchers (70:08)

Yep.

Tas Melas (70:10)

The 3, 421.

JD (70:12)

Pretty recent. Pretty recent.

JD (70:17)

We haven't seen this man play for a while, but apparently he's practicing again.

Tas Melas (70:22)

Victor.

JD (70:22)

Victor Wembanyama. The last guy. You probably won't get it, dear. And Fox. So pretty cool stuff from Derek Queen. They call him DQ on the broadcast, which reminds me of Dairy Queen, of course. And his name is Derek Queen.

Tas Melas (70:39)

Yep.

JD (70:40)

So I think we should call him the Ice Cream Man. Ice Cream man is coming. They could play it in New Orleans. It would sound awesome.

Tas Melas (70:48)

Yes, Queen. Yeah, I saw that going around yesterday. Yes. Dairy Queen for sure. It's good. He's good.

JD (70:56)

Yeah, he looked awesome last night setting the table. He had so many wild like reverse finishes. Had one where he thought he got fouled, just chucked it over his head. And you know he just made the same layup like three possessions earlier. So that one went in as well. Made him in the fourth quarter. Throws a backdoor pass, throws an alley oop. This guy does it all.

Tas Melas (71:14)

He's so good. Yeah. Even if he Joe was cooking on that one. They, they, they did well.

JD (71:20)

They did well on that one.

Tas Melas (71:21)

Should they have picked him with their first pick? All right, now I'm getting speculative that there's no need to do that to Mr. Fears.

Tas Melas (71:29)

They cooked their. Sometimes he gives away on the other end for sure.

JD (71:33)

Yes, he does.

Tas Melas (71:33)

But who cares? Just build around him. If you're a Pelicans fan, at least you can watch some incredible stuff that he does. As you just said, those are. That's some good company for a young player who didn't start the year as a start starter player. He's coming off the bench. So.

JD (71:50)

Yeah, I think it was Fast Break Breakfast that had the eighth player with the block, the 33, 10, 10 and 4 line. And it was like all hall of Famers. And I don't know if Alvin Adams is a Hall of Famer. I'll have to ask my dad about that one. The only guy who talks about Alvin Adams. But I know Derek Queen is good. But wouldn't you rather have Noah Senge. Oh, two other guys who did good. Me and you, tas.

Tas Melas (72:10)

Oh, yeah.

JD (72:11)

Last night in the pickup, we had the Suns plus 10 and a half points and they moneylined them. It's a win for us, a loss for Skeets. You and Skeets, four and two. I am two and four. What's tonight's game?

Tas Melas (72:23)

Well, it was definitely easy to pick the Raptors and the Knicks in the NBA cup, but Skeetson won it. He was worried about having to pick the Raptors. The line is getting bigger there. The Knicks now favored by 4 1/2 because people are on the Knicks. So I went with the other one. This one. The Battle of Florida in Orlando. Miami visiting. It's basically a pick them because the Magic are favored by one and a half. JD with the NBA cup here on the ground. Looking good.

JD (72:57)

Victor Solomon.

Tas Melas (72:58)

I was. Oh, you just. You're. You got that Heat logo. I say looking good. It's got a little flare. Anyway, this is it.

Dr. James Borchers (73:05)

The Skeets did these ones.

Tas Melas (73:06)

Oh, so. So it's all exceeding. Oh, yeah, it looks great. I will say I was driving here in Georgia yesterday. I see a license plate from Florida that's got the Miami Heat logo on. Wasn't the regular standard logo, it was the Miami Vice logo. Oh, on a license plate.

Odoo Advertiser (73:24)

Cool.

Tas Melas (73:24)

It was cool. It was cool scene. Anyway, I got the Magic. You guys do have the Miami Vice Heat, you and Skeets. Yeah, you're right. They probably.

JD (73:32)

Maybe they'll be viced up tonight since it's a Cup game. Just think some things to figure out. For Orlando with Franz going down. Paulo assuming a bigger role.

Tas Melas (73:42)

I'm telling you.

IBM Advertiser (73:43)

Yeah.

Tas Melas (73:44)

As soon as Desmond Bane gets mad, the team performs afterwards. After Spike and OG Hannah, Obi with.

JD (73:52)

That ball, who do you think he's most likely to fight on the Miami Heat?

Tas Melas (73:56)

Oh, the Miami Heat.

JD (73:58)

We got a lot of good guys.

Tas Melas (73:59)

Yeah, super good guys. Who's the mean guy?

JD (74:02)

I mean Davion Mitchell likes to stir it up.

Tas Melas (74:05)

Yeah. Oh, you mentioned him. And he was laughing when Myron Gardner.

JD (74:11)

New guy alert.

Tas Melas (74:12)

Yeah. Deep cut on the Miami Heat bench was talking crap to Klay Thompson. We showed him in the worst of the week this past week. So if he fights anybody, it'd probably be Myron Gardner. If he's there. I don't even know if he'd be there.

JD (74:25)

Watch your back, Myron. You mentioned it. Four and a half point favorites, the Knicks over the Raptors right now.

Dr. James Borchers (74:31)

What you got?

Tas Melas (74:33)

I'm taking Toronto. Yeah.

Tas Melas (74:37)

I'll be watching it on playback tonight.

JD (74:39)

Nice one.

Tas Melas (74:40)

Yeah. I've got to. This is the NBA Cup.

JD (74:42)

It's the NBA Cup. Tass will be chatting live on playback tonight. Visually you're going to be seeing that game. And he was going to be going head to head with sk. Oh my goodness.

Tas Melas (74:54)

Yeah, he'll be on. He'll be. He'll be chatting it up on substack. I gotta go on playback cuz some sad news. Playback will be shut down this Friday day. Yeah. Now will it be back? Yeah, yeah, they're gonna be purchased but they're in the process of. Of being sold. So yeah, it's a sad day. I'm gonna pour one out for playback. But also substack will be happening today. Multiple channels of no dunks. Enjoying the NBA Cup. I had to this back to back games as they've given each game some space.

Tas Melas (75:31)

They basically start back to back when you started earlier.

JD (75:34)

Yeah, in my early starts tonight.

Tas Melas (75:37)

Six and then 8:30 Eastern.

JD (75:39)

Six and 8:30?

Tas Melas (75:40)

Yeah.

JD (75:41)

Wow.

Tas Melas (75:41)

Sound. You don't sound happy about that.

JD (75:43)

It's just unusual to start games at that hour of the day.

Tas Melas (75:46)

It surely is.

JD (75:47)

Just very early. Six o'.

Dr. James Borchers (75:49)

Clock.

Tas Melas (75:50)

Things have changed.

JD (75:51)

Things have changed. Including the schedule. The schedule has changed is the main thing that I noticed. I saw the car ahead of me yesterday driving home from here. Had the license plate one number ahead of me. How weird is that? Exact same first six digits and then the last number was an eight and ours was a nine.

Tas Melas (76:10)

So why do you think that happened?

JD (76:12)

I don't know. I don't think you should be. I don't think you should ever encounter the license plate that's right next to yours. Felt dangerous to me.

JD (76:20)

They're tracking us somehow. What are they running here?

Tas Melas (76:23)

Yeah, Yeah. I immediately think, well, we ordered ours a second apart or at the exact same time. Is that what happens? Is that how it works? Can't wait to find out.

JD (76:34)

Did we get our cars the same day?

Tas Melas (76:36)

Can't wait to find. We're gonna have.

Tas Melas (76:39)

Another doc doctor License plates on to explain how it all works tomorrow. Is that cool?

JD (76:46)

Dr. License plates tune in tomorrow. We got Dr. License plates coming on.

Tas Melas (76:51)

Urban planning, everything that happens around cities. Very interesting stuff.

JD (76:57)

Clipper Bros. You heard it here first.

Dr. James Borchers (77:00)

Have a great time. Turn up.

JD (77:01)

Love you guys. Awesome.

Tas Melas (77:03)

Thanks for joining us. Join us tomorrow, it is going to be a pack show. We are going to learn about license plates on the back of cars. On the front of cars. Because that whole thing, some states do it, some don't. Canada, you got front plates. You can, they got front plates. Okay, but now you can just renew. They don't, they don't, they don't care about the renew stickers on a license plate. They just, they literally doesn't matter. You know, like, yeah, you got to.

JD (77:32)

Do your license plate renewal every year.

Tas Melas (77:33)

Yeah, but they don't care. You have to do it manually. But they don't care if they. The stickers on there do not care. Does you see the little stickers on there that say like five years ago you don't get pulled over.

JD (77:43)

You don't want to save this for doctor license plate.

Tas Melas (77:47)

Hopefully he joins or she joins. Come on, doc.

JD (77:50)

Come on, doc. Embrace the blades, people.

Tas Melas (77:57)

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first.

Tas Melas (78:15)

There, the last one.

Tas Melas (78:19)

Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

JD (78:27)

Amazon five Star Theater presents real customer reviews performed by Ed Helms. Tonight's review, tactical jacket. I was living a simple life. Didn't get out much. Then I bought this jacket and everything changed. Women came flocking to me from lands domestic and foreign. On the 245 day sailboat voyage home, I was attacked by a shark. I knew it was the jacket he was after. Giving up the jacket in exchange for my life. 5 stars Amazon Customer 69 Shop the perfect gift this holiday on Amazon.

Tas Melas (79:09)

Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

Dr. James Borchers (79:11)

We host the podcast Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

Tas Melas (79:18)

We're back for season four to talk.

Dr. James Borchers (79:20)

To some incredible small business owners. The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing.

Tas Melas (79:25)

Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing.

Dr. James Borchers (79:28)

So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dr. James Borchers (79:37)

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.